T.J. Newman, DROWNING: The Rescue of Flight 1421 (a Novel)
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[1:03]T.J. Newman is the author of drowning the rescue of flight 141, a novel.
[1:09]T.J. is a former bookseller and flight attendant whose first novel, Falling, became a
[1:14]publishing sensation and debuted at number two on the New York Times Bestseller list.
[1:19]By the way, my son loved this book.
[1:22]The book was named a best book of the year by USA Today, Esquire, and Amazon, among many
[1:27]others, and has been published in more than 30 countries.
[1:31]The book will soon be a major motion picture from Universal Pictures.
[1:35]T.J. lives in Phoenix, Arizona.
[1:37]Drowning is her second novel.
[1:39]And I was so lucky that right before this interview, well actually, you'll probably hear
[1:42]it after, I realized she lived in Arizona and we made a plan to get together and she ended
[1:48]up coming to this dinner party I was invited to.
[1:50]And she is just as wonderful in person as you would think in this episode.
[1:54]So enjoy.
[1:55]Welcome, T.J.
[1:56]Thank you so much for coming on mom.
[1:57]Don't have time to read books to discuss your latest book, Drowning.
[2:01]Oh, it's such a pleasure.
[2:02]Thank you so much for having me on.
[2:04]Oh, I'm so excited.
[2:06]I made the mistake of starting to read this on an airplane.
[2:08]And I was like, it's totally fine.
[2:10]I know it's coming.
[2:11]I can read it on the plane.
[2:12]No worries.
[2:13]And then I was like, no, this is not going well.
[2:17]You know, people say that all the time.
[2:18]You know, it's like, oh, I've got a trip coming up.
[2:20]I can't read it.
[2:21]And my, my thought is always, well, I wrote these books, you know, my first book and now
[2:26]this one, like, I wrote them on planes.
[2:28]I feel like it's like being on like a Disneyland ride, you know, you've got like this.
[2:32]The sounds and the, the smells and the feeling, you know, the turbulence that sort of
[2:36]was like even more immersive experience.
[2:39]It's true.
[2:40]It's like a virtual reality book.
[2:41]Exactly.
[2:42]In fact, we should advise people only read it on planes.
[2:46]Exactly.
[2:48]If you want the real experience, if you want the edge of your seat, literally experience.
[2:52]Oh, it'll make the flight go faster, right?
[2:55]It absolutely did.
[2:56]Yeah.
[2:57]So I was so blown away by your mechanical knowledge of the plane, like, you know, everything
[3:03]about like every piece of equipment and I know you were a flight attendant to start, but
[3:08]that doesn't necessarily mean you're like, I don't know, do you know what I'm talking about?
[3:12]I do know going to a lot of details of the plane and machinery and how everything works and
[3:18]all of that.
[3:19]Thank you.
[3:20]Yeah.
[3:21]It's, you know, I think it's surprised a lot of people with my first book falling.
[3:23]That sort of behind the curtain look at the world of flight attendants and I don't think
[3:28]a lot of people realize that flight attendants are first and foremost safety professionals.
[3:33]If you could see the training manual that we use and that we carry with us on our trips,
[3:37]it's like an 800 page document that we have to know backwards.
[3:44]So, you know, all of that foundation of my experience as a flight attendant, I flew for
[3:50]10 years.
[3:51]Really fun to now put it into this sort of big, you know, fictitious world and have those
[3:57]two worlds kind of come together with regards to the piloting side of things and the actual,
[4:02]you know, mechanics of flying an aircraft.
[4:04]I'm not a pilot, but I became very close friends with, you know, a lot of pilots after
[4:10]flying for a decade and I would call them and I would consult with them.
[4:14]I kind of have, I call them my phone and pilot friends, I call and ask questions to about,
[4:19]you know, like, okay, so if I wanted this to happen, then what if I did this and they
[4:24]would walk me through sort of the mechanics of how to make the scenario of the book happen.
[4:31]It's so crazy that flight attendants are such safety experts.
[4:35]No, so much are in charge of your lives and yet people are like, can I just have some
[4:40]more Diet Coke?
[4:41]Jeremy, like it's so misaligned in terms of expertise and how they're deployed in the
[4:47]plane, you know, it's like, oh, have the ambulance drivers like handout like lollipops in the
[4:55]waiting room or something, you know, I know exactly what you mean and it's this weird paradox of
[5:01]if you never see a flight attendant doing their job, that's a great day.
[5:07]Because what you typically see a flight attendant do is service, which is a service that we provide.
[5:14]That's not where we're there for.
[5:16]We love bringing you a Diet Coke.
[5:17]We love bringing you your chicken entree.
[5:19]We love passing out the pretzels.
[5:22]We love that because it means we're not doing what we're actually there for, which is
[5:27]attending to a medical emergency, attending to a mechanical crisis, attending to any sort of
[5:31]crisis because we are there first and foremost as safety and security professionals.
[5:38]That's just it.
[5:38]Full stop.
[5:39]That's the end of the story.
[5:41]And so it's been really paledating for an industry that I love so much, so much so that I've
[5:46]written, you know, several books on the industry because I find it so fascinating and wonderful
[5:51]to hear that nod of respect to a position that is all too often dismissed and not seen for what it is.
[6:00]How much training did you go through yourself and how much recurring training?
[6:05]Is it like doctors where they have to get recertified all the time?
[6:08]Yep, we go through initial training and each airline has their own sort of parameters
[6:13]with which they do it.
[6:13]The airline that I started with, which was Virgin America.
[6:16]We did a six week training course in which you're there every single day all day long.
[6:21]There is, you know, practical physical testing.
[6:23]There is written testing.
[6:25]And if you get below, I believe it's 90% on a test.
[6:30]You have to retake the test at the next morning.
[6:33]And if you don't retake at 100%, you're kicked out of class.
[6:38]Well, standards with which you are held are exceptionally high.
[6:43]And then every year we do an annual recurrent training, which is a multi-day course in which you
[6:48]come together and get retested on everything in your manual to make sure that you are
[6:53]carting up to date with what you need to know.
[6:55]Just saying.
[6:56]Well, it shows in your character Molly who you say she's learned the 70 times that it became
[7:01]totally automatic.
[7:03]So when the crisis happens, you could say, like, go this way or go to the store and do this
[7:07]and she didn't have to think about it.
[7:10]That's the entire point of the way that flight attendants are trained, which is how a lot of safety
[7:15]professionals are trained is so that those procedures in the event of a crisis, they're there.
[7:21]You can be thinking about and focusing on other things that are the extenuating circumstances
[7:25]of that particular situation because everything else is hardwired.
[7:29]You're on autopilot.
[7:30]You don't have to think about it.
[7:31]You're screaming, you know, your commands.
[7:33]You're showing people where to go, while you're bringing us somewhere else.
[7:38]So in structuring, drowning, you have all these different characters in every seat, which is
[7:42]fascinating because I'm always wondering what this backstory of every person on an airplane really
[7:47]is anyway, right?
[7:48]Like, what is up with them and how are they related and like, what's their story, right?
[7:52]Do you just want to make a great flight attendant?
[7:54]I always call it.
[7:55]I always said it was like a job where I was paid to be a professional people watcher because
[8:00]that's where these stories come from.
[8:01]As I, you know, for 10 years, I would sit and look out at these passengers and think,
[8:06]what's their deal?
[8:07]Why are they, you know, they seem to be fighting or what is that person traveling to?
[8:12]You know, it's just it's a never ending source of potential.
[8:17]Yeah, with a constantly rotating cast.
[8:19]Yeah, really fun.
[8:21]But how did you narrow it down?
[8:23]Like, how did you decide which roles would be filled by who?
[8:27]like the blue polo shirt guy here and the child traveling alone?
[8:31]And she didn't mean like, how did you figure out who did you want to star in your
[8:36]movie?
[8:37]And also your book, I guess that's really interesting.
[8:40]You know, I never thought about how I came into each character's why they were there.
[8:45]But I guess, you know, these are all characters that I flew with.
[8:49]I took care of unaccompanied minors for 10 years and in the back of my mind was always that
[8:55]protective position of gosh, if something goes, goes wrong in the unlikely event that something
[9:02]goes wrong, I'm responsible for that child.
[9:05]And, you know, your protective, you know, maternal instinct really kind of takes over and you
[9:10]realize this, this is going to be tough because I'm going to be also responsible for everybody
[9:14]else on this plane.
[9:15]But this little child is also with me.
[9:17]And so I wanted to put that into this story and it has a nice mirror component in the story
[9:22]and that there is another little girl in the plane but her father's there and the way that
[9:27]they all, all the 12 passengers who are inside the plane at the bottom of the ocean,
[9:33]they take on a family component and they take care of each other and, you know, they look out
[9:37]for each other and they also like a family.
[9:40]They also fight and have competing agendas and have ulterior motives.
[9:46]I always described a plane as like a classic bell curve, right?
[9:52]Like on every plane that you fly on, you're going to have sort of a little bit of a sampler
[9:57]or a platter of all cross sections.
[10:00]of humanity. And I just narrowed that bell curve down to 12 people and kind of said, well,
[10:06]what are the different spectrum of people that you would run into in a situation like this?
[10:11]And the book really is also, and this is why I'm so fascinated with because it's,
[10:16]I did the same thing with falling and I sort of realized after I wrote the second book,
[10:19]I'm like, oh, I think this is kind of my thing right now is ordinary people in extraordinary
[10:27]circumstances. And I'm fascinated by just like you said, when you're on a plane and you're,
[10:33]you're, you're looking at the people and you're trying to do that workshop test and figures
[10:38]them. No. What would these people like you like me, ordinary people in an extremely heightened
[10:48]situation? What do we do? What do we do? And I'm fascinated by what the answer is to that,
[10:54]because I think we all discover parts of ourselves that we didn't know we're there when we're
[10:59]in hot water. And I'm fascinated by that. Yeah, even like people who froze like the people
[11:07]in the, but you know, you don't know what they were going to do. They either froze or the people
[11:11]who were pushing people out of the way or, you know, you know, and shock plays into it too,
[11:17]right? When you're in things like this and then will like stepping up and being totally
[11:21]hero at the, like all of his knowledge and like this is what we're doing. Like who would I be like
[11:26]that? I don't know enough, but I do like controlling things. That's exactly it. That what you just
[11:33]said is exactly it. Would I do that? And I think that that's why it's been so lovely to see.
[11:40]And I think that that's why with both of my books and how people relate to them in a way
[11:45]that's a little bit closer than than other big, you know, action thriller books like this,
[11:51]because there is that component of I'm placing myself in that. Like I love to read a book or see a
[11:56]movie about, you know, an astronaut in outer space, but I'm not going to space. You know what
[12:02]I mean, like that's that's not in the cards for me. So there's a little bit of distance there,
[12:06]but I'm on a plane all the time. And so are you. And so when people read these stories, I think the
[12:12]psychic distance between the characters experience and your own, it closes in. And I think when
[12:18]you can overlay your, your own personal lived experience, for me, it just enriches it. It just,
[12:27]it just makes it better. And I think it's a natural gateway to exactly what you said, Zippy,
[12:31]which is what would I do? I don't know. If I'm in a situation like this, how would I react? And we
[12:36]don't know. So it's fun to kind of live that experience through a lot of different
[12:42]people and see how they do it and sort of try it on for size safely from, you know, the comfort
[12:47]of your couch where you can just put the book down or, you know, if you, if you want to, it's,
[12:51]it's a fun exercise. Back to the screen adaptations that we were talking about. So what is the latest
[12:59]with falling drowning just sold in this massive deal? You must be so excited. It was all over the news.
[13:05]So where are you with all of those and how are you balancing all of it? And I'm assuming you're
[13:11]already writing new books. Like, how are you dealing with everything? Sleep is a, is a fun concept
[13:16]that I remember from a past life, I think. You know, sleep, I haven't heard that name and forever.
[13:22]But, you know, it's been, it's been incredible. I'm still reeling from the, the entire experience
[13:29]of the film sale for drowning. It was a week long process where I was on Zoom calls with people
[13:37]like Nicole Kidman, which is absolutely insane. My, my agent called me. And it was like,
[13:44]you know, sometimes he could only call for like 30 seconds because everything was happening so
[13:48]fast. And he was like, he called me and he's like, get ready. 15 minutes. You might be on a Zoom call
[13:52]with Nicole Kidman, get ready. And then just like hangs up. But I'm standing there with like the
[13:56]phone to my ear like, like the, Nicole, what? And Zibi, I feel like you might appreciate this.
[14:02]The first thought that came to my mind was, I have to wash my hair. I was literally just going to
[14:08]say, did you like run to do your makeup? Like, what, what is the first thing you do after that?
[14:13]Exactly. I was like, I can't, I, you know, women in their hair, you know, we've all got, there's,
[14:18]there's a schedule, there's stuff. And it wasn't, you know, a day in my schedule that I would have
[14:23]wanted to have met Nicole Kidman. So that was, you know, I've got 15 minutes. And the first thing
[14:28]on my mind is I've got to wash my hair. That just shows you how out of body the entire experience
[14:34]was. And for the record, she was the loveliest, most genuine, most sincere, down to earth,
[14:40]really smart, really, it was, she just, she was very, very cool. But yeah, it's like, I'm still
[14:46]reeling from that. The fact that both of my books have been optioned for phone is just,
[14:52]you know, beyond a dream control, come true, because like, I definitely never even dreamed that
[14:58]big. Like that is, it's just, I truly don't know how to to wrap my mind around it. It's crazy.
[15:05]And, and following my first book, I'm also adapting. I'm writing the screenplay, which has been
[15:11]a wildly, big learning experience. It has been the most fascinating and interesting process
[15:18]to learn a different language. It really is writing a screenplay really is learning a different
[15:24]language. Um, because you've got, you know, in a book, you've got 10 pages to tell a scene
[15:30]and in a script, you've got one. So it's the art of compression, right? How do you take a story that
[15:36]took 10 pages to say what you meant to say and get every single thing across in one? And it is,
[15:43]it's a high wire act and it is extremely difficult. And I'm just, I'm really interested to see
[15:51]how it's also affecting my fiction, my novels. And it has, because it really forces you to hone
[15:58]in on what's the story. If I don't have the luxury of all those words, what am I actually trying to
[16:04]say? If I only have so many words to say it, I better know exactly what it is that I'm trying to
[16:09]say. And it's really helped my novel writing process. And so interesting, I was, we did this retreat
[16:16]in Charleston last weekend in Mary Alice Monroe, who's this beautiful, like descriptive
[16:20]southern writer. Um, it does a lot of environmental writing. She was saying how when she reads a book
[16:26]that has too much dialogue, she'll say, Oh, this is not a book. This is a screenplay. You know, like
[16:32]interesting. I know. So people come at it from all different ways. She's like, I love the description.
[16:38]I feel like that's what makes the novel. She's like, but many novels now, because of attention
[16:44]spans and what people want have far less description than they used to. So she said she's actually
[16:48]scaled back on her description a bit interesting. And to that point, she's exactly right. And they're
[16:55]totally different mediums. And I think that's why, you know, there's often there's so often
[16:59]this conversation of like, oh, the book is better than the movie or, you know, the movie's better
[17:04]than the book. And I think that some of that is that there's things that work in a book that just
[17:10]won't play on a movie and vice versa. And that doesn't make one better or worse. It's just a
[17:14]reality of the medium in which the story is being told of a film is a, to sound, you know, on the
[17:22]nose. It is a moving picture. You are only aware of what you are told and what you, even what you
[17:28]see, right? It's a moving picture. Whereas with a novel, you get into those beautiful descriptions.
[17:33]You get to get into the skin of the character and other thoughts. Whereas unless in a movie,
[17:37]a character says, I am thinking this, you don't know what they're thinking. And so they're just
[17:43]totally different mediums, both of which are just fascinating to me. The different ways there are to
[17:48]tell the same story. And that's what was so cool about that whole process with the, you know,
[17:53]with the film sale was I got pitched by these incredible filmmakers of what their vision for what
[18:00]this story for drowning could be as a movie. And this is a story that I know intimately that
[18:04]I've spent so much time with. I know it, you know, backwards and forwards. And here are these
[18:09]brilliant creative minds saying, yeah, but have you thought of it like this? And it was just like,
[18:14]no, minute, and really good, you know, that's really good. That's why you are, you know, in the
[18:20]position that you're in. It's just, it's fascinating to see all the different creative approaches to
[18:25]a story. It's so funny. I'm imagining it like an old fashioned like ad agency pitch where they
[18:30]come in and like give you the sample ads, you know, like here's drowning this way. Here's
[18:34]drowning that way. That's right on this whiteboard. That's what it was. And it was so, it was so
[18:42]inspiring to see these people. It made me want to work harder than I've ever worked just to keep
[18:48]having opportunities like that because it was just so inspiring to see these people come up with
[18:54]such incredible ideas like that. And they were all varied. And everybody had, you know, a passionate
[18:59]pitch. And it was a nearly impossible decision to make, never mind the fact that I had to convince
[19:04]myself every single day that it's like, okay, this is actually happening and you should, you know what
[19:09]I mean, there's that disbelief that's like, I just can't believe any of this is happening either,
[19:14]but I don't have time to deal with the emotional, just an imposter syndrome. It's like, no,
[19:20]own it, own the moment, lean into it and just just go, which is not always, you know, we don't
[19:26]win every day that that. So do you have others in this series? Like, are you going to keep doing
[19:32]different flights or how are you going to, what's your plan here? You know, I'm, I'm loving working
[19:38]in this space and both, both novels are standalone novels. The only character that carried over,
[19:43]which I wasn't even intentional. I sort of just realized that after the fact was the airline
[19:48]that these incidents have happened on this completely fictitious airline coastal airline
[19:52]that, that, you know, these terrible things happen to their flights. That's it, that everything else is
[20:00]is separate. So I've got a few more stories that I do want to tell. I mean, you don't work in
[20:07]an industry as fascinating and incredible as aviation for 10 years and only walk away with
[20:12]a couple good ideas. So I've got a few more ideas. I'm not surprised.
[20:19]I know I was thinking like what are they, you know, what I and G word? Will they be,
[20:24]will they always follow this at least naming convention or you know, I don't know.
[20:29]Anyway, I won't give you my bad ideas of other titles. But my own, I told my agent like, you
[20:34]know, when we were in the process and you know this, when you hit a point in the process where
[20:39]like, you're tired, the characters aren't behaving as you want them to. This is you don't know
[20:43]how they're going to get out of this situation. Everything was just like, I don't have an answer.
[20:47]And I told my agent, I'm like, the next book is called Napping. People taking them out and then going
[20:54]for coffee and just sitting around and having like chill conversations. That's it. That's the book
[21:01]because I was just over it. It's so funny. You should do something with that. Make it a little
[21:06]magazine. Do like a gift with it. I don't know. An insert. It's so funny. It's a Mother's Day
[21:13]special edition of Napping. Yeah, hurry and get it out. When you were little, like, did you want
[21:20]like, was this a lifelong thing or it just came from the things you saw and then need to get them
[21:25]down in some way? Oh, absolutely. I'm a baracious reader. I've read and wrote my entire life.
[21:34]My first creative dream that I pursued was to be an actress. I got a degree in musical theater and
[21:41]then I moved to New York and did my best at becoming a Broadway star and considering that we are
[21:47]not having a conversation about my next, you know, big role. You can guess how well that
[21:53]attempt one. It was nothing but failure. Nonstop failure. Sorry. Hey, you know, that's that's
[22:02]a showbiz baby. You know, it's it was hard. It was really hard. And I ended up leaving and moving
[22:10]back home to Phoenix. And I moved in with my parents. And I'm now, you know, at that point doing
[22:16]the mid 20s, living in their childhood bedroom with a degree in musical theater who was just
[22:23]told by everyone in musical theater that you're not good enough. You know, what do I do now?
[22:28]And it was at that point that I got a job at changing hands bookstore, an indie bookstore
[22:34]at the street from my parents' house. And I would not be here right now if I had not had that
[22:40]experience as a bookseller at changing hands. It saved me creatively and it saved my future because
[22:47]it was the first time after that that I let myself dream again and let myself say you are a creative
[22:55]person. You will always be a creative person. This is an outlet for you to do that. And so I started
[23:01]writing again because I'd kind of put it down when I was a New York pursuing theater and it let me
[23:05]be creative on my own terms. Nobody knew I was writing. Nobody knew I was dreaming of being a
[23:11]published writer. I used to when I was shelving books by an author with my last name, Newman. I used
[23:17]to take my thumb and cover their first name as I shelve it. And I would pretend that it was my book.
[23:24]But I didn't tell anybody this. I didn't tell nobody knew because I'd already done the public,
[23:31]you know, I'm following my dreams and I'm going to do something incredible. And I fell flat on my
[23:36]and I was hurt. And so I was looking at my wounds and so I privately began to dream. And my time
[23:42]at the bookstore, let me do that. And I'm forever grateful for that. And I wouldn't be here without
[23:46]it. And I left the bookstore to be a flight attendant. My mom was a flight attendant. My sister was
[23:51]a flight attendant. We call it the family business. And when the opportunity came up, I knew I had
[23:55]to take it. So I left and I became a flight attendant. And I'm so glad I did because it was at work
[24:03]on a flight that I had the idea for falling. And I started writing that book by hand in the
[24:09]forward galley, you know, on Red Eyes while my passenger slept. And somehow that turned into a
[24:15]number two on the New York Times bestseller list. And now my second book drowning is coming out
[24:19]at the end of May and two movie deals. And none of it happens without a long path of failure.
[24:28]And that time in the bookstore that that let me dream again and let me find what my path truly was.
[24:38]That's amazing. And now you could sing and dance your way through one of these films.
[24:43]There you go. Our self is starring role, you know, never know. You can change things up a little bit.
[24:48]Drowning the musical, you know, and the passengers are in. I'm not sure, you know, starting a full
[24:53]long stage musical would have helped the situation. But, you know, nothing like jazz hands.
[24:58]You never know exactly exactly all your dreams in one. Oh my gosh. Well, do you have any advice
[25:06]for aspiring authors? I know that was sort of advice already in terms of not giving up your dreams
[25:12]and sort of pursuing opportunities in life because life often gives more material to write about
[25:18]or processing failure. But even from the writing itself, like you could have been writing and
[25:25]it could have been not good. Do you know, like, how do you make sure what you're writing is actually
[25:30]good and riveting and attention grabbing and all the things that you do so well?
[25:34]I think you start by writing things that are bad and not attention grabbing and not good.
[25:38]And then you just work on them until they are. You start with a good idea and you just persist.
[25:44]You know, I really do think if I can give any advice to any aspiring writer, it's that
[25:50]keep going. It's going to be bad. It's going to be hard. Look, falling was rejected by 41
[25:57]agents. I didn't get anybody to even take a look at this book in a serious way until my 42nd
[26:03]agent submission. I know that you have that legacy too of things. Yeah, you're naughty.
[26:10]You're like, yeah, I've been there. I get that. And I love too. But I love about your story.
[26:15]And my story too is that model, that example of who says not you, you know, why not you? Why can't
[26:22]it be you? And I feel like, especially as women we get into our own minds too much. And we say,
[26:28]like, oh, I hadn't done it by the time I was, you know, 25 because that's what everybody likes
[26:33]to tell you, you know, the hot, you know, the new 25 under 25. And it's like, oh, I passed that. So
[26:38]therefore I can't do it. And I don't have a degree in this or I don't have the right connections
[26:43]or I don't have this or I don't have that. And we believe these narratives. And we shouldn't.
[26:48]There's no, I didn't know anybody in publishing. I didn't know anybody in film. I didn't know
[26:53]how to do it. I didn't know anything about anything. I literally bought a book called The Essential
[26:57]Guide to Getting Your Book Publish. And I read it and followed the directions. And along the way,
[27:02]it was nothing but failure and rejection, just like you. And you know, but we're here. And I
[27:09]think it's because we just kept going reinventing ourselves. You know, the podcast was kind of out
[27:14]of nowhere. And now look at what it's grown into. By the way, do you, do you have the same 24 that
[27:23]the rest of us do? Because I don't know how you get done everything that you get done. When I look
[27:28]at your Instagram, I'm just like, does she have a time-turner? Like her money? You're like,
[27:33]how is she, how is she doing this? I'm so impressed. Thank you. I do have a team that helps,
[27:41]but not with the podcast really, although that's not true. I guess with the descriptions and stuff.
[27:45]But yeah, I don't know. We all are just doing our best and hustling and trying to, you know,
[27:50]use what opportunities come our way. I don't know. I don't know. I'm excited. Like it's hard to
[27:56]I think that's exactly it too is like use whatever opportunities come your way. It's like
[28:01]you exemplify to me a person who when opportunity comes, you grab it with both hands.
[28:08]And it may come from an unexpected place. It may be, you know, a podcast that you weren't
[28:15]thinking and now it's grown into this or it may be for me like an idea that I had in a galley on a
[28:19]plane that is now turned into this. It's like find that spark where you go, ooh, that's something
[28:26]and then grab it with both hands and don't let go. Hang on and don't let go. Surround yourself
[28:32]with the team. Like you said, people that believe in you and just keep going. You're inspiring me.
[28:39]I gotta get into something else now. I'm not sure that's possible, but boy, if anybody could,
[28:46]it would be you. You're so sweet. You're so sweet to even know what I'm doing. And I have so
[28:50]much respect for you. And yours was one of I think three books I gave my teenage son who was like,
[28:56]I don't feel like reading. I was like, you're not reading the right stuff. You're just not
[28:59]reading the right books. You have to find the right book. And when you do, you won't be able to put it
[29:03]down and you will love reading. And he loved your book and couldn't put falling down. And was like,
[29:08]oh my gosh, you're right. Like it was awesome. It was amazing. And he got so into it. And then he started
[29:14]reading the other books I gave him. Oh, I'm not even kidding. I'm not kidding. I made my day. I
[29:20]feel like there's the two stamps of approval that I really, really cherish is like the teenager
[29:26]stamp of approval who's getting into reading and the father-in-law stamp of approval. Those are the two
[29:31]that I feel like people say that I'm like, okay, that's like a, that's a hard to reach demographic.
[29:36]That's a very difficult reach demographic wise. So that, oh, that means the world to me. Tell
[29:42]your son, thank you. Thank you. That means so, so much to me. I will, I will give him now that I'm
[29:47]now that I'm done. I'll give him the fun. All right. Well, that was so much fun. You're not still in
[29:54]Phoenix. Are you where are you based now? I am still in Phoenix. Yeah. I'm coming there on Saturday.
[30:00]this Saturday? Yeah. I'm going to the mom 2.0 conference. Do you know about that? It's in
[30:05]my mom lives in carefree outside Scottsdale. I don't know about the mom 2.0 conference. What
[30:10]is that? Oh my gosh. You should be speaking at it. Well, I wonder if they have room. I'll put
[30:14]you in touch with the founders like all these influencer moms and marketers and brands and all of
[30:19]this who come together and have panels and keynotes and dinners and you should be a part of it.
[30:26]It's so fun. I would love to be. Yes. Please, this sounds amazing. Okay. Yeah, it starts
[30:31]Sunday night and it ends Tuesday. But I'll be like a panel Monday afternoon and then I'll fly back
[30:36]up. But I'll be there for Sunday. I'm going to put you in touch. Yeah. Oh, I would I would love
[30:41]that I would also love to see. I'm so excited to come to to the store at the end of my tour. I am so
[30:47]glad you made time for that. Oh my gosh. I was flipping out. I'm so excited. Oh, of course, of course,
[30:52]I couldn't. I was oh, I'm just so excited. The shop looks so incredible. And the events
[30:58]that you guys have put on look just just amazing. You don't usually see people sort of respond
[31:04]white like they responded to some of the events that I've seen that at your store. So I can't
[31:09]wait to be there. Thank you. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on.
[31:14]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms. Don't have time to read books. Don't forget to
[31:18]follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books.
[31:22]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibi Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet
[31:27]lots of authors on zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan. In fact, texture sound
[31:32]for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic
[31:36]intro and out trim music.