Sunny Hostin, SUMMER ON SAG HARBOR
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[1:03]Sunny Austin is the author of Summer on Sag Harbor.
[1:06]This is her second time on mom's don't have time to read books, so you can go back and
[1:10]listen to her first one as well.
[1:12]Sunny is the co-host of ABC Day Times Morning Show The View.
[1:16]You may have heard of it prior to that.
[1:18]She was a legal analyst at CNN, and before joining CNN, she was an ABC news anchor and
[1:25]appeared on the Fox News channel.
[1:27]She has covered a million different topics and has published many popular and scholarly
[1:33]articles and many outlets on many, many topics.
[1:36]And as a federal prosecutor, she was awarded with a special achievement award by then Attorney
[1:41]General Janet Reno for her prosecution of child sexual predators and work with child
[1:46]sex abuse.
[1:47]She was also a managing director of business intelligence and investigations at Croll, the
[1:51]world's leading risk consulting company.
[1:54]She received her undergraduate degree in communications from Binghamton University and
[1:58]her law degree from Notre Dame Law School, a native of New York City.
[2:02]She lives with her husband and two children in New York.
[2:05]Please enjoy.
[2:06]Welcome, Sunny.
[2:07]Thanks so much for coming back on mom's don't have time to read books.
[2:09]This time to discuss summer on SAG Harbor.
[2:12]Yes, thank you so much for inviting me back.
[2:15]I had such a good time the last time for the last book, so I couldn't wait to chat with
[2:19]you again.
[2:20]I was actually just watching the video of that from last time, which I don't know why
[2:24]I hardly ever do when people come back, but I was like, oh, I wonder what was I wearing
[2:27]that day?
[2:29]Anyway, as you know, I was raving about your last book and we were talking about it being
[2:35]like, what's the difference of a be treat and is that a bad thing or a good thing?
[2:39]And you were saying how you try hard not to make books frivolous in any way, right?
[2:43]They don't have to always have to have a deep remaining in this book again touches on
[2:47]so many important themes.
[2:48]So anyway, thank you for noticing.
[2:51]Well, you know, I really it's interesting to me because when people see you with a book
[2:57]that has a book cover with a woman on the beach or walking on the beach or a couple
[3:00]walking on the beach, they immediately sort of think it's vapid, but I think that escapism
[3:06]is really important in today's environment, right?
[3:10]We've gone through it off a couple of years.
[3:13]I know my family has and families across America and so I thought, well, let's dress some
[3:18]of the issues that come up, you know, almost every day, but also we can do it in a fun
[3:23]way, in an elegant way, in an elevated way and still reach the issues that I like to
[3:30]reach.
[3:31]So this book, of course, you know, does the same thing in a sense that I'm celebrating
[3:37]a community that I don't think a lot of people know about and also just continuing
[3:41]the journey of one of the characters and discussing things like gentrification and colorism
[3:48]and infidelity and different types of relationships that people have, you know, marriages
[3:54]that are different.
[3:55]That kind of thing.
[3:56]Yeah.
[3:57]Just a little of that, you know.
[3:58]By the way, I do not even know that this piece of SAG Harbor was a thing.
[4:05]I was, I know.
[4:06]And I've been going out there forever.
[4:08]Isn't that the greatest?
[4:09]Really embarrassed.
[4:10]Well, the thing is, it's funny because Joy Bea-Harr lives there and I often visit with her
[4:15]and I summer there every year since my kids were actually I found the place when I was
[4:21]pregnant with my son.
[4:22]So it's been 20 years and I visit Joy and she had never been on Haven's Beach, which
[4:28]is a beach on SAG Harbor that's in an exclusively African-American or I should say not exclusively
[4:32]but historically African-American community that was founded in the 50s.
[4:36]And she was like, I didn't know this paradise existed, you know, I was just, she just had
[4:41]no idea.
[4:42]And she lives there.
[4:43]She lives there during the summer, she lives there, you know, basically every weekend.
[4:47]And I think it was shocking to her that this enclave not only exists, but it's existed
[4:53]since the 50s.
[4:54]And that's one of the things I wanted to highlight because, you know, I think when people
[4:58]think about the African-American community, they're not necessarily immediately thinking
[5:03]about wealth.
[5:04]They're not necessarily thinking about beach and not necessarily thinking about homeownership.
[5:10]And it's something that has been going on since the late 1800s, not in SAG Harbor, of course,
[5:15]but in summer on the buffs I explored that Black folks were really only allowed to buy
[5:20]beach from property in three places in the United States, unfortunately.
[5:24]But they did own homes in old buffs.
[5:27]They do own homes in SAG Harbor and they do own homes in Highland Beach.
[5:32]And I just thought it was really special to let people know, hey, this kind of paradise
[5:37]exists and it's open to you.
[5:39]And I'm hoping that the read is aspirational and sexy and fun, but you do say in the
[5:48]book that the residents are very pleased that nobody knows about it.
[5:51]And I think it would be so amazing to me.
[5:54]I actually called one of my, I called her one of my summer sisters and I gave thanks to them
[5:58]and I said, you know, I wonder, people are going to be visiting more.
[6:03]She's like, yeah, thanks.
[6:05]But what's great is she's also a realtor and she's like, you know what?
[6:09]It would be wonderful if people learned about our community because it's a really important
[6:15]community.
[6:16]And it's, I think, pretty historic, in fact.
[6:18]And actually the three communities in SAG Harbor that I kind of highlight in the book are
[6:23]SAG Harbor, Hills, Nineveh, and Azure rest.
[6:28]And they have just been as a group, landmarked as historic sites.
[6:33]So I just think it's really cool that now this world is open to a bunch of people.
[6:39]Yes, it is very cool.
[6:41]Of course, your book is about the people, not just the place, but having a strong sense
[6:45]of places wonderful.
[6:46]And as to the escapism and all of it, mixed up, that you start off with your main character
[6:53]finding a letter that is disturbing from you know, I will tell you in many ways, I always
[6:59]knew where the three books, the trilogy with HarperCollins were going to be placed because
[7:05]this is, these are my love letters basically to these places that I summer.
[7:09]These predominantly African American communities that no one has heard of, these
[7:13]beach communities and coastal communities.
[7:15]But it's very much a love letter to my book club readers because as you remember, my book
[7:21]came out during the pandemic.
[7:23]And so I couldn't do a traditional book tour.
[7:25]I had to do, you know, it mostly virtually.
[7:28]And so I must have met with about 50 book clubs or more.
[7:33]I got a lot of feedback and everyone kept on saying I love summer on the bluffs, but what
[7:38]about Olivia?
[7:39]Okay.
[7:40]What does she get the short end of stick?
[7:42]That's not fair.
[7:43]And I was sort of like, wow, I actually would never have imagined I'm thankful that people
[7:50]connected with the characters so strongly and they wanted to know more about Olivia.
[7:55]And that's why this book is centered on Olivia because apparently there were unanswered questions
[7:59]that I hadn't really considered and I hated that readers who love the book that
[8:05]Olivia's journey was interrupted and that she didn't get her due.
[8:09]And so we find out in this book that she also goes on a journey.
[8:15]And that journey is in SAG Harbor and she has connections to SAG Harbor that she didn't
[8:21]know about.
[8:22]But for her godfather, Omar, leaving her this letter.
[8:26]And it takes her several years to even open the letter because she's so consumed with
[8:30]her anger like many of us are and grief, really, it's more grief than anything.
[8:36]And unanswered questions and he actually answers some of the questions in the letter.
[8:41]And those were some of the questions of real readers.
[8:44]I mean, they were like, well, what about this?
[8:46]What about this?
[8:47]Why doesn't she know more about this?
[8:49]And I thought, well, this is great.
[8:51]I mean, it was a treasure trove for me.
[8:53]And I explained back to my readers, this is what happens.
[8:59]And so it's really about Olivia in SAG Harbor trying to find more about her biological
[9:05]father's estranged family, right?
[9:08]And so she thinks she's on a journey to find out about her dad and that family.
[9:13]But really, she's on a journey to find out about herself and what she needs and what
[9:19]she wants and what she deserves, importantly.
[9:22]So I think a lot of women don't ask for what we deserve.
[9:26]And sort of put our desires into this self doubt box.
[9:32]And I wanted to explore that.
[9:34]And she learns so much about herself.
[9:36]I also, I think you may have noticed in reading the book.
[9:39]Thank you for reading it.
[9:40]I wanted to explore the issue of therapy, but something we talk about on the view all the time.
[9:45]Joy Behar is a huge proponent of therapy.
[9:48]It's our hands as well.
[9:50]And I've never been a therapy, although I'm probably a lunatic and probably really
[9:54]need to do some therapy.
[9:55]But it's something that has been stigmatized so much and so many communities.
[10:00]cities that I thought, you know, I'm going to speak to a couple of therapists about their
[10:04]process, which was so much fun for me.
[10:07]And you know, how they do what they do because they really are changing people's lives.
[10:12]And so now I have Olivia going to see a therapist, which is something that has also sort
[10:16]of been stigmatized in the African American community, especially for women.
[10:20]And I thought, well, let's bust that open.
[10:23]Let's talk about that and let's just give a little peek into what that looks like so
[10:29]that people are more comfortable with the process.
[10:32]And that's why the therapy piece is in there because of my co-host, but also because
[10:38]I think it's an important thing.
[10:41]Yeah, therapy is so essential, especially, I mean, I used to be in therapy until I ran
[10:49]out of time, which is now when I probably need a thrust because someone can tell me to
[10:53]like stop doing what I'm doing.
[10:54]And I'm like, no, but I feel like particularly now, and I was just talking to another author
[11:02]who teaches and I was asking what she was seeing as themes and some of the essays and
[11:06]for students.
[11:07]And just she was saying just so much anxiety and as a teacher, she didn't even know
[11:12]what to do with it all.
[11:13]Like what could she do?
[11:14]You know, well, I think so much of it is that we've gone through a couple of years, right?
[11:19]I mean, we've had a pandemic where so many people are missing their grandparents or
[11:25]their parents and many loved ones at their Thanksgiving dinner.
[11:28]I know my in-laws both died from COVID.
[11:31]So, you know, we miss them and kids experienced that firsthand, that kind of loss that
[11:37]no kids should really experience.
[11:40]And I think also that kind of tragedy.
[11:44]And I think also there's the school that no social contact for a couple of years.
[11:52]And then when there was contact, it was mass contact.
[11:55]And so, especially the really little ones, they grew up looking at people with the mask
[12:00]on.
[12:01]And so, of course, there's more anxiety now.
[12:04]Of course, there's less socialization.
[12:06]I feel that my teenagers, I mean, they experienced grief and fear and not being able
[12:13]to connect.
[12:14]My son didn't have a situation, didn't have a prom, you know, didn't have a traditional
[12:20]graduation.
[12:21]The parents weren't able to be there.
[12:24]Everybody was separated on outdoor field.
[12:26]I mean, these are real things and real emotions.
[12:29]And I'm glad so many of our young people, though, are willing to talk about it, right?
[12:34]Like, you do hear that, at least this teacher heard about it.
[12:37]Like, my kids are like, I'm feeling very anxious today, they will tell me they have
[12:42]the language to express their feelings.
[12:45]They're not afraid to express their feelings this generation.
[12:48]And that makes me happy.
[12:49]I mean, Olivia, there's a different generation, Olivia Jones.
[12:52]And so, she doesn't have the words.
[12:54]And she doesn't have the language to express what she's really been going through, which
[12:59]is quite a lot.
[13:00]I mean, a lot of grief, a lot of anger, a lot of displacement, all of those things, and
[13:06]a lot of relationship issues and issues within herself.
[13:09]I'm sorry about your in-laws.
[13:12]I lost my mother-in-law and my grandmother-in-law.
[13:15]Oh, I'm so sorry.
[13:17]Yeah.
[13:18]So I don't know what your experience was like, but it was horrific for us.
[13:22]It was horrific.
[13:23]It was brutal.
[13:24]I mean, you couldn't be with them.
[13:25]Yeah.
[13:26]Right?
[13:27]And for kids to kind of see that firsthand, I think not only children, but in teenagers
[13:32]and young adults, I think we are all in a place where we could use an escape.
[13:39]Some insight into how we're feeling.
[13:41]And that's why part of the book is placed during the pandemic because we all experience
[13:47]that together.
[13:48]And I think in many ways, in this new book, you see that we came together as a community.
[13:54]We helped each other.
[13:56]We loved on each other, and we can't forget that part, which is why I wrote to it.
[14:01]Because there was a lot of love in New York, which was one of the places that was hit
[14:05]the hardest.
[14:07]It was remarkable to me because New Yorkers are too big.
[14:09]And like a little hard nose.
[14:12]And they were clapping at a certain time every day to first responders.
[14:16]My husband, who was one of them, would be at the hospital and would hear these cheers
[14:21]for him and for his staff.
[14:23]And that was pretty amazing, I think.
[14:26]And I think we adapted to it, thank you all for Zoom, and we were having cocktail parties
[14:32]on Zoom.
[14:33]Yes, yes.
[14:34]But there are neighbors.
[14:36]And I go into that in the book, and we lost so many of our elders and history there.
[14:43]And I wanted to explore that.
[14:44]You know, I was all in my feelings as I was writing, because I was like, I know people
[14:49]will connect with this experience because we lived it totally.
[14:53]Oh my gosh.
[14:54]Yeah.
[14:55]It's hard to even remember, and then it was just, it just happened, you know, like
[14:59]in the history books, if you're like, oh, something that happened in 2000, and then it
[15:02]was 2023.
[15:04]Yeah.
[15:05]1918.
[15:06]Yeah.
[15:07]Well, it just happened to it.
[15:08]Like we actually lived it.
[15:09]Yeah.
[15:10]Yeah.
[15:11]Nobody's being nice in New York anymore.
[15:13]No.
[15:14]Right?
[15:15]It changed a little bit.
[15:16]No, it's like, I remember.
[15:18]Yeah.
[15:19]Yeah.
[15:20]Yeah.
[15:21]A little dicey.
[15:24]Oh my goodness.
[15:25]Okay.
[15:26]So the end of the trilogy then, tell me about that book.
[15:28]Yes.
[15:29]Well, I decided as I mentioned on the places.
[15:32]The third place that African Americans were allowed to buy beachfront property was Highland
[15:36]Beach, Maryland, and it's not too far from Annapolis.
[15:39]And Frederick Douglass actually owned a home, a summer home history that I learned about
[15:45]because my friend Erica owns a home there.
[15:48]There aren't really hotels there.
[15:50]This is even a more exclusive community than SAC Harbor.
[15:53]I've been there many times, and there's a wonderful museum.
[15:57]And you have the Frederick Douglass home there and his descendants living there.
[16:02]And there are a lot of octogenarians that I actually interviewed just to get a feel of what
[16:08]it was like owning a home in this place that has such a storied history, but it's still
[16:14]very hidden, perhaps intentionally, but I wanted to introduce also just new characters.
[16:22]I thought that was, and I love historical fiction.
[16:25]So that's where the third place is, and you'll meet some new people.
[16:28]I'm about 150 pages in.
[16:31]Nice.
[16:32]And I'm hoping that people will respond to it in the way that they've responded so far
[16:37]to the first two books.
[16:38]I've been kind of overwhelmed by the lovely response.
[16:41]It's been pretty cool.
[16:42]That's awesome.
[16:44]It's really exciting.
[16:46]Well, aside from the fact that nobody's ever going to invite you to their house, I'm
[16:50]like a remote community again.
[16:53]Aside from that, it must be fun.
[16:55]It's so much fun.
[16:56]I, you know, what I always explain to the people that I interview and preparation for
[17:00]the books, because I'm a type A personality, so I prepare a lot.
[17:04]Look, this is a piece of history that no one knows about.
[17:08]Let me write to it.
[17:09]Let me tell your story, and I'll be very respectful of it.
[17:13]And I know with the vineyard, there were book tours.
[17:16]People had shirts that said some around the bluffs.
[17:18]It opened up a world to so many people.
[17:21]I got so many emails on my website, like, I'm on Martha's Vineyard for the first time
[17:25]and everything you write about is real.
[17:27]I'm like, yeah, you know, I actually went there again last summer, which I always do
[17:32]in August.
[17:33]And the owner of Sailor V that I write to in the book and write about, he's like, my
[17:38]sales went up like a hundred percent, he's like, thank you so much.
[17:43]And Donovan, who I write about said, you know, thank you so much.
[17:46]And some wonders for my business.
[17:48]We have people that are stopping by and telling us that they read about this paradise
[17:53]in your book.
[17:54]And can we take a picture?
[17:55]So I think the dread that a lot of communities have, like, oh, my gosh, this is not my
[17:59]little secret anymore, is definitely displaced by, wow, you know, these people will love
[18:07]this place as much as I do and respect this place.
[18:10]And now we have more friends that I think that was the experience for at least the first
[18:15]I was just kidding.
[18:16]No, I know.
[18:17]But there were real concerns.
[18:19]Like people were like, you're writing about the vineyards, wait a minute, like the real
[18:23]places.
[18:24]Oh, you know, what's, what's our August going to look like?
[18:27]And I'm like, it's just going to look like you made more friends.
[18:30]Like I think it's so cool.
[18:32]Because I know when I read Larry Graham's book, Our Kind of People, it really opened up
[18:36]a world to me.
[18:37]I was like, what?
[18:38]You know, I mean, I knew about the sororities and fraternities because I'm a member of
[18:43]Alpha Kappa Alpha Alpha.
[18:44]I knew about the links because I'm a member of the links.
[18:46]I knew about many of the things in his book.
[18:49]But I didn't know that black folks were not allowed to buy, you know, and I didn't know
[18:54]that they did buy that were there were just so many things that I learned.
[18:58]And I thought, well, it may not do it in the way that Larry did it, Lawrence Graham, which
[19:02]was really, you know, not fiction.
[19:05]He just, he wrote him some history down.
[19:08]But I can combine too and make it a little more, you know, easy to drink.
[19:12]So that's always my goal with a beetroot.
[19:14]Well, it's like, you know how they say when you're giving directions, sometimes this is
[19:19]like a massive gender generalization, which from the past, but that, you know, women often
[19:24]need like the story of the drama.
[19:26]Yeah.
[19:27]And then I fast this beautiful little house with pink roof.
[19:29]And then I did it as opposed to like this, this and this, I feel like it's the same sometimes
[19:33]as history.
[19:34]Like I would so much rather read your book, learn, feel like I know a place in a different
[19:39]way.
[19:40]And like experience and then reading history with backwards, it just makes it fun and digestible.
[19:47]And that's my goal with all of my writing, you know, to elevate it a little bit, to teach
[19:53]a little bit not to be the professor, but to teach a little history and also a little romance,
[19:59]you know, like.
[20:00]Joy Joy says you always got to have sex. I'm like, I guess, I guess you do have to have sex.
[20:06]My books do have a little bit of that as, but digestible, you know, I'm fun.
[20:12]And when do you get everything done? Like, what is what are some of your time management secrets
[20:18]here being on TV and writing and publicizing the bug and everything else. It's a little crazy.
[20:23]I don't sleep as much as I should. I probably get about five hours of sleep at night. My dear
[20:28]friends on the group that I'm taking years off of my life. And that's probably true. But I
[20:32]haven't saw me. So I don't sleep much. And I happen to be a natural night owl. Like, I really think
[20:38]there is something to this notion of circadian rhythms, right? So like, I am my best at night.
[20:43]My husband is this early bird. He's really good at 5 a.m. I can't sleep. We have the same thing here.
[20:49]I can't sleep 5 a.m. We're on difference. I don't like 5 bucks. Even though I'm a morning
[20:53]talk show host, I'm not really a morning person. I'm kind of forced to be a morning person
[20:58]because of my career choices. But I write at night because that's what I tend to be most productive.
[21:04]My children are asleep. I know that they don't need me. My husband is asleep because he's an
[21:10]early riser. It works out like at 5 a.m. I think it's bizarre. And just the house is quiet.
[21:16]The dogs are sleeping. The chickens are, you know, nesting in their, their coop. And I basically just
[21:22]go into my office and start writing. I have a cup of tea. And I love to write in the winter
[21:27]because I have a fireplace behind me. And I just write. And unfortunately for me, sometimes it's 2 a.m.
[21:34]And I'm like, oh my god, I've got to do the beauty. I've got to go to bed. Sorry. Like, rush to bed.
[21:38]So I get in the 4 hours of sleep for 5 hours of sleep. But I write at night. That's my process.
[21:44]On the weekends, my children have activities, especially my daughter now who is in high school
[21:49]and I track athlete. And so if I'm not at a meet, I'm generally writing, you know, trying to
[21:54]meet my deadlines. And I haven't missed any deadlines. So I've been pretty lucky in that.
[21:59]But I feel very productive late at night. Like, it's so cool. I hit and peaceful. And I could just
[22:05]get into my head. I need a lot of quiet to write. Some people can do a lot of things at the same time.
[22:11]But I certainly can't write that way. I don't have the creative juices when I have distraction.
[22:18]I'm the same one.
[22:21]But I'm the morning type of person. Yeah. Yeah. This morning I got up so early with my dog.
[22:27]Oh, and I was like, okay, it's 5 o'clock and dogs up and the kids are asleep. I was like,
[22:31]I could write or I could do I could email or I could like spend the 2 hours that I've been
[22:36]putting off these camp forms that I've been doing.
[22:38]I'm like, I'm like, I'm really doing these like, they're doing the whole forms. Do me first.
[22:45]I know. Yeah. I know. I know. I'm like the waivers and the this and I'm like, why did they do this
[22:52]time? Like, I'm going to get it done. I promise to say my book is on.
[22:59]Oh my gosh. Okay. So what advice do you have for aspiring authors?
[23:02]You know, I think my advice is that you should write what you know. And if there is a book,
[23:12]this is Tony Morrison's advice, but I took it seriously. If there's a book you want to read,
[23:17]but you can't find it, then you should write it. I really think there are less authors because
[23:24]of the fear. Certainly a rejection. I still fear like, oh my gosh, how this book is going to be
[23:30]received, even though the first was a New York Times bestseller, which shocked the heck out of me.
[23:34]So I'm still scared about how it will be received. And I think that everyone has a story in them
[23:41]and different experiences. And I want to read about those different experiences. I'm surprised
[23:47]more people don't write fiction because some of us dream so vividly. There are so many jewels
[23:53]and gems there. My advice is to go for it most importantly, if there is something that you want
[24:00]to read. And it's not out there, then that's your story. And you write to what you know,
[24:05]for sure. And marry someone who's on a different circadian mountain. Yes,
[24:10]then you can write in peace. Otherwise, you'll never have time.
[24:16]Anyway, okay, Sunny, thank you so much. Thanks for coming back on Moms Entertainment
[24:20]and I have no doubt this will be a huge success as well. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you so much.
[24:25]All right, take care. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[24:31]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[24:36]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[24:41]of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the
[24:46]Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[24:51]now trim music.