Carley Fortune, MEET ME AT THE LAKE
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[1:03]Carly Fortune is back on mom's end of time to read books to discuss her book Meet Me
[1:08]at the Lake, which I loved.
[1:11]Carly Fortune is an award-winning Canadian journalist who has worked as an editor for Refinery29,
[1:16]the Globe and Mail, Shaddeline, and Toronto Life.
[1:20]She is the author of The New York Times and number one Globe and Mail best-selling book
[1:24]every summer after.
[1:25]She lives in Toronto with her husband and two sons, and I actually did an event with her
[1:29]when I was in Toronto for Wildflower Calls, maybe, which premiered at the Toronto Film Festival.
[1:35]Welcome Carly.
[1:36]Thanks for coming back on mom's.
[1:37]Don't have time to read books to discuss Meet Me at the Lake, which has the most gorgeous
[1:41]cover.
[1:42]And for those who cannot see Carly right now, she's wearing a dress, the exact same colors
[1:47]as her cover.
[1:48]And it is really beautiful.
[1:49]So there you go.
[1:50]Thank you.
[1:51]Thank you for having me back.
[1:53]I really loved this book.
[1:55]I mean, I loved every summer after, too, but there's something about this I particularly
[1:59]related to.
[2:00]And I don't know, with the loss, angle, as well, and sort of different paths your lives
[2:06]can go.
[2:07]And I don't know.
[2:08]I just had this extra layer of meaning not to compare.
[2:11]They're both different.
[2:12]But anyway, I loved it.
[2:13]It's all I'm trying to say.
[2:14]Thank you so, so much.
[2:17]That means the world to me.
[2:18]I'm so, right now when we're talking like three weeks from the book coming out.
[2:23]And I'm so nervous about it because I'm so proud of it.
[2:26]And it means so much to me.
[2:28]And I'm so happy to hear that you liked it.
[2:32]It's really, really good.
[2:34]It's really good.
[2:35]OK.
[2:36]Tell listeners, and also you had a long night at the end about how hard it was for you
[2:40]to write this, which means it's a prize, because reading it, you would not be able to
[2:44]tell that.
[2:45]Like reading it.
[2:46]Oh, thank goodness.
[2:47]No, but it's really because it all makes sense.
[2:49]And there's like, I don't know, not like there's a book I could read that I'm like,
[2:53]oh, she must have had a hard time with that one.
[2:54]But she worked on that one.
[2:56]Like, so I don't know what that would even look like.
[3:00]But tell me about why it was hard.
[3:02]And also just explain the story to listeners.
[3:04]OK, yeah, so the book is about Vernon Will, who
[3:09]meet in their early 20s just as they're
[3:11]kind of launching into the world.
[3:13]They've just finished school.
[3:14]And they have this chance encounter that leads to them spending an entire day together
[3:19]in the city and kind of wandering around and talking and making plans for the future.
[3:25]And they have a very strong connection.
[3:28]And they make a pact to meet one year later at the resort where Fern grew up.
[3:34]And Fern shows up and Will doesn't.
[3:38]And she never hears from him again until 10 years in the future.
[3:43]She's back home running her mom's resort, the place where she grew up,
[3:47]the place where she absolutely did not want to come back to and run.
[3:51]And it's in pretty bad state.
[3:54]Her ex-boyfriends the manager.
[3:56]And in walks Will with an offer to help her out.
[4:01]And it's been 10 years since she's seen him.
[4:04]And he's extraordinarily different from the guy that she met 10 years ago.
[4:10]And she's not really sure if she can trust him.
[4:12]And she feels like he's kind of keeping a secret.
[4:16]Like something's a little shifty.
[4:17]And so the book is about like every summer after it goes back and forth between the past
[4:23]where they spend these 24 hours together and the present where they're together at the resort in the summer.
[4:28]And yeah, that's that's meet me at the lake in a nutshell.
[4:31]My gosh.
[4:32]But the voice is so great too.
[4:34]I mean, I know that's like the plot, but the hold on.
[4:37]I wanted to, can I read a passage or two or something?
[4:40]Oh my goodness.
[4:40]Yes, sure.
[4:41]Okay, I'm just going to read, this is starting running from Will Baxter's exhausting.
[4:46]I'm just going to be like two paragraphs, is that okay?
[4:48]Running from Will Baxter is exhausting.
[4:50]I know because I've spent nine years barreling down this trail, it was supposed to lead
[4:54]far away from him through some kind of magical mist and enchanted forest to a land of forgetting.
[5:00]I've fled from the feeling of his finger linked with mine from the hurt.
[5:04]They used to burn hot and sharp like a lance through the sternum over time it faded to
[5:08]a dull ache.
[5:09]But tonight there is no escape.
[5:11]I dart down the flagstone steps in front of the lodge.
[5:13]As soon as I land on the path, my high heel is sinking to the gravel and I stumble.
[5:17]I shift my weight onto the balls of my feet, but I can only shuffle a few inches at a time.
[5:21]I left my Birkenstocks in the office, swearing.
[5:24]I pull off the shoes and grip my teeth against the bite of pebbles.
[5:27]I've been living in the city too long.
[5:29]Whitney and I used to scamper around the property and bare feet all summer.
[5:32]I get three strides farther when I hear footsteps hurting down the stairs behind me.
[5:36]Fern, wait.
[5:37]But I don't wait.
[5:38]I got my pace, trip, and go soaring forward.
[5:40]The humiliation hits before the singing in my palms and knees.
[5:43]Are you okay?
[5:44]Well, ask about me.
[5:45]I rue the day he was born.
[5:47]I rue the people who held each other close nine months before that.
[5:51]I do a lot of rueing as I lie there.
[5:53]I press my forehead against the ground and dig my fingers into the stones.
[5:57]Maybe I can burrow my way out of this.
[6:01]Thank you so much.
[6:03]You know what's funny about that particular part of the book.
[6:06]There are two sections in just what you read that I considered cutting.
[6:10]No.
[6:11]Yes.
[6:12]Yeah.
[6:13]The part that begins it, like about her running away through the mist and forest and
[6:19]the rueing.
[6:20]I love the rueing.
[6:22]I did too.
[6:23]I did too.
[6:24]We did, I feel like it was close to being cut and I was like, is the running away from
[6:29]him part two over rot?
[6:30]I really went back and forth on those parts.
[6:33]But I'm so glad that you liked it.
[6:34]No.
[6:35]I particularly loved the rueing.
[6:36]That's so funny.
[6:37]I love it too.
[6:38]I love it too.
[6:39]But sometimes when you love something, you're like, am I just feeling myself or is this
[6:44]bad?
[6:45]I don't even know.
[6:47]No.
[6:48]It's good because it just hits.
[6:50]I mean, it's, I don't know.
[6:52]It's funny and it's relatable and yet it's different because being in a difficult situation
[6:57]and not only like wishing the person weren't there or that you weren't here.
[7:01]But then being upset with that person's parents for getting together, that's pretty
[7:07]good.
[7:08]I mean, I've never reached that far back and now maybe I will.
[7:11]Yeah.
[7:12]The burn is quite bitter.
[7:13]Yeah.
[7:14]Yeah.
[7:15]But even also how Fern talks about losing her mom and how I don't have to share how
[7:21]she died or I don't know what basically that she died in an accident caused because
[7:26]she was trying to do everything for everyone and she always did running this resort.
[7:31]Not delegating and wanting the customer experience always to be perfect and in the end,
[7:36]that's what ended up being her downfall, not on purpose, but in sort of a more toxic way.
[7:41]And I feel like that's also sort of this larger metaphor if you will, for what a lot of
[7:46]women are doing when they're running things and being moms of even older kids, like trying
[7:53]to do everything for everyone, not let anyone down and just being like, I'm just going
[7:56]to do it or maybe this is just because I can really do this.
[7:59]Well, I know you're so right.
[8:01]Yeah.
[8:01]And I think Fern's mom, Maggie, is also, I don't know, sure how much of this is really in
[8:07]the book, but like I saw her as someone who never quite felt she was doing enough, like
[8:12]as a mom, as a business owner and therefore probably ended up doing way more than she
[8:18]ought to have.
[8:19]Yeah.
[8:20]Yeah.
[8:21]And yet we're so beloved.
[8:22]I mean, the people that there was love or like you could tell that she had this really special
[8:25]quality, right?
[8:26]Yes.
[8:27]A lot of charisma.
[8:28]A lot of charisma.
[8:29]And yeah, the place was like all her.
[8:31]And then when she was gone, like it's it's more than just a loss of the person, but
[8:36]it's like a piece of the place as well.
[8:38]Yes.
[8:39]Yeah, absolutely.
[8:40]And then of course the love, I mean, it's just so good.
[8:43]I don't know.
[8:44]We go back to why this was hard to write.
[8:45]Yeah.
[8:46]So I wrote every summer after in 2020 in the summer and fall of 2020, I did it early
[8:54]morning's before work and before my kid was awake.
[8:57]And it took me about four months to write.
[9:01]And in under a year, I had a two book deal, I did edits on every summer after, took two weeks.
[9:09]Like it was a very speedy, easy, magical kind of process.
[9:15]Everything about from like writing the book to the book being published.
[9:19]And then the reception for the book was just mind blowing.
[9:23]But yeah, writing the book was really, really joyful and smooth for me.
[9:28]And then when I sat down to write meet me at the lake, I was pregnant while I wrote every
[9:33]summer after.
[9:34]So when I was writing meet me at the lake, my, I was like two months postpartum and my mental
[9:39]health really sucks in my postpartum period for both pregnancies.
[9:44]And I just for one, I had, I don't know, a couple of months earlier, I've got a two
[9:50]book deal.
[9:51]And it's like, oh my gosh, but that means I have to write a second book, which I of course
[9:54]wanted to.
[9:55]I love doing this, but it was really intimidating.
[10:00]The idea of now I had an editor and an agent and people and a publishing team who loved every semester and it really didn't want to disappoint them.
[10:10]And every day I sat down to write the draft of meet me at the lake and I worked on it every day for, I don't know, eight months my husband took paternity leave to look after the baby.
[10:21]And I would spend hours telling myself how much I sucked like every summer after was a fluke.
[10:26]You can't do this again. Nobody's going to read every summer after and therefore you're already like going to fail and this book's going to be a flop and you can't do it.
[10:34]And I would like I looked back at my notebook that I kept for every summer after before I started writing me at the lake and I was like, how did I even write a book like I don't even know how I wrote a book.
[10:44]Like magic. So I that first draft was really hard to write. I literally fought with myself every day. And that was before every summer after came out.
[10:53]So there wasn't even any kind of like reader reception for every summer after yet. I had filed two drafts of meet me at the lake before every summer after came out.
[11:01]And then I got the edit back my first editing letter back on the first draft of meet me at the lake and it was a really long letter and like so smart my editors are absolutely brilliant.
[11:15]There was this little line in there that was like what if we changed the past timeline so that the characters are a different age and it's a different setting.
[11:28]I got that note. I, first of all, I felt like I needed to vomit like I just like I spent two days feeling like I needed to puke. I was like, Oh, yeah, I absolutely have to rewrite half the book and therefore change the rest of the book like that is absolutely the right thing to do.
[11:45]I've done a really bad job, like I have failed because, and you know, and I said, I'm like, no, that is just like the process of how a book is actually put out you don't usually spend two weeks doing edits on on a book before it is like sent to copy editing.
[12:00]And after that, once I kind of got my head around that and I started working on the second draft I outlined it over a weekend and then I was like okay they're going to be a bit older it's going to be in Toronto.
[12:11]I had so much fun. I was like I've already failed and I had two months to like file my second draft and it was so fun.
[12:19]And now having come through that and I'm working on my third book. I'm like, okay, I can, I can do anything like it may not be great at the end of it, but I can, I can do it at least, but it was tremendously hard the first draft.
[12:34]So where explain what was different than with the second draft. No, so in the first draft and maybe the late. Oh, what they at the resort the whole time. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. Yeah.
[12:44]There was never a coffee shop supply.
[12:46]There was never a coffee shop.
[12:48]There was no like day in Toronto. There was a canoe trip at that and a storm.
[12:54]And they were younger and the book was always about you know where we think we're going to end up and where we actually do and how those things kind of align or don't align and the unexpected curves that life inevitably throws at us.
[13:09]And they were on their way to college in the first draft instead of having completed it and those are two very different life stages.
[13:18]And the second life stage was a much better place to examine what I wanted to examine and also it was just like, you know when I wrote every summer after and I was like, okay, so what I do is write about lakes.
[13:32]So everything will be at the lake. And then I felt like that's what I had to do. And then when my editor suggested a day in the city. I was like, oh, that's so much more fun like let me write about something new.
[13:44]And I love Toronto very much and I got to have so much fun exploring Toronto of 10 years ago, which was a really good time in the city.
[13:52]And so I think it helps like it has a lot of similarities. I would say to every summer after but changing that past timeline really like helps I think distinguish them.
[14:02]Totally. Wow.
[14:03]And of course we hung out in Toronto so that was fun.
[14:06]And it was fun.
[14:08]Yes.
[14:09]By the way, and this is so random, there was this amazing wallpaper in the bookstore that we were we did our event in January.
[14:16]I don't remember.
[14:17]So I just remember like I took a picture of it at some point, and then I saw the wallpaper somewhere else.
[14:23]And for like two months, my brain could not help me remember I could not place where I had seen it before.
[14:29]And I was like, I know I've seen this before. I love it so much, but where. And so it ended up being in that bookstore with you. So then I look.
[14:37]Yeah.
[14:38]So there we go. Anyway.
[14:39]Well, I'm going to have to go look at their Instagram afterwards and see what wallpaper is. Yeah, I like finally saw it in like a picture that I had taken that day. And I was like, oh my gosh, that was it.
[14:49]It was like a pharaoh and ball. I'm obsessed with wallpaper. So anyway, always cataloging where I find stuff. Well, that's so interesting. And it's so cool that your characters that you can have them be so defined that someone could say, why don't they be a little older and you could be like, obviously, I know exactly who they are and what they're going to be like when they're older because you had to do all that work.
[15:07]Yeah.
[15:08]You can get to know who they were. Yes. Yes. And it was, I think it made it so much easier to write the second draft because I knew the characters. So like I like, well, I know what they did as teenagers. I know they're like, I know so much now that I didn't know before and it made it so that I could really concentrate.
[15:29]I was having fun. Like this, I didn't have to kind of worry my way through the story. Like I did with my first draft. So yeah, it was very difficult to press delete on that. I kind of like mentally like sent them off in a canoe.
[15:44]And farewell. Like, grieved them as teenagers and then yeah, turned my attention to them as 22 year olds, which was wonderful.
[15:53]But you should release that as like, you could do it like as an original audio or you could do it as like a special insert for booksellers or something.
[16:04]Yeah, I thought about it. I'm like, do I want that in the world? I don't know. I don't know. It's fun. It's got like Jamie is in it, who is Fern's ex. So in that draft, he is not a love interest at all. He became like an ex later. And I think I'm the second draft, maybe.
[16:20]But it's got some relief and it's got a nice scene with Fern's mom. But yeah.
[16:24]Oh, my gosh, I would want to read it.
[16:27]I think it's a thing with it. Why not? Otherwise, it's just in a file. I know it's in my ear like giving people more of an inside look into the characters like.
[16:37]And I also think people would go crazy for like the deleted chapter like the behind.
[16:42]Yeah, but what if people read it and they're like, Oh, she's this is really sucky.
[16:46]Well, it might be sucky.
[16:48]It might, but it might not. And maybe they're not reading it with that lens. They're just saying like, I want more of these people tell me more, you know.
[16:56]Yeah, you know, I'm working on like this just like fun little bonus something for me with a lake. And as I'm writing it, I'm like, I think this is fun, but also maybe it's terrible.
[17:06]But then I, you know, I think that's just writing.
[17:10]Yeah, I think we have to focus on how to get you over all of the self doubt that is going on in your head.
[17:17]You know, I, yes, I would love that. I do have a therapist just so you know.
[17:24]And I feel a lot that like writing the third book. I didn't deal with that at all. Like, I mean a little bit like definitely questioning a little bit, but I didn't feel saddled with self doubt.
[17:36]I decided it was going to be a mess and that I was okay with it being a mess. Whereas when I wrote me me at the lake, I was like, this is going to be a mess. But in the back of my head, I was like, yeah, but it needs to be perfect. And I hope that I've come past that. I hope I can approach writing in the future a bit more healthfully.
[17:53]What's nice to hear you talk about it though, because it does mess with your mind, because that's all you're doing it's you.
[17:59]You know, it's like why I can't play golf. Do you know, it's because it's just like there's too much pressure. Like you just you have to do it and you have to do it right. And it's only you and the page or you and like the golf.
[18:12]Yeah, but I'm like, no, I'm not going to play golf. Like I can't get over myself. Right. It's in my head. Yes. But writing is different too obviously because like the end product is all of our like subconscious and random memories and like feelings and thoughts and you have to like swirl it all up like some crazy stew and then like splatter it on the page.
[18:33]It's amazing. Anything that comes up. It's like making any sense. It is. It is. And yet like also I just feel like I sound kind of ungrateful because I love what I'm doing so so much and even though that was really difficult that first draft.
[18:51]It is the thing I think I love most in this world writing as hard as it can be. It just makes me so so happy and I we probably talked about this the last time I was on but I was a journalist for 16 years and I was at a point in my career where I didn't know what I was going to do next. I felt like my career was over and it was really it was really stressful not to know.
[19:13]I'd worked so hard and to not know what I was meant to do anymore was really hard. And so when I wrote every summer after it was like, Oh my gosh, this is what I am in my late 30s and I am now just discovering what it is I am meant to do and that is how I feel like I am so grateful and happy despite the angst.
[19:32]I do know that. And this is you know, unlike golf, which I actually don't particularly like I also like writing and I think everybody who writes really loves it. Yeah.
[19:42]It's just hard. Yeah. You know, you can love something and it can be hard like parenting. You know, I love my kids, but it is really hard.
[19:49]I just interviewed Disha Bose before you and if you read dirty laundry, it's the new GMA book club. I have it. It's just like right here.
[20:00]Because literally that was like half an hour ago, but under her first page, like her daughter,
[20:05]the main character's daughter is being really difficult. And, you know, she has all this dialogue,
[20:10]and then she's like, the line after her daughter says something rude, she's like,
[20:14]and then I wanted to like, take her outside and toss her on the curb and like, never gonna
[20:17]pick her up. And she's just like something that I'm like, wait, we're not supposed to say,
[20:21]but it was like so funny. So anyway, it was just about to, how hard parenting can be at times,
[20:26]even though you love your kids more than anything. And it's the same with writing. It's like,
[20:29]you love what you do, of course. But it's just, yes. I think there's a lot of parallels
[20:36]between writing and publishing and parenting for sure. True. Yeah. For a thing of book and all that,
[20:42]that's true. Yeah. And like comparing books, like, which books are more. I love them both
[20:47]differently. Yeah. A book's look and feel it. Yeah. And like, let it, yeah. Anyway, yes. Okay.
[20:53]What is the third book about? Tell me about that one. I can't say much about the third book yet,
[20:57]but it is, you know, a summary love story. I am wildly excited about it. Like, I,
[21:04]it's funny because I both never want me to get the link to come out because I'm nervous,
[21:09]but I also want it to come out right now. And I also want my third book to come out right now.
[21:13]Like, I'm so, I'm not the most patient person and we're still editing it. I think I'll get my
[21:19]edit back next week. But I just have had so much fun writing it. And I love it.
[21:28]I just, like, I love it so, so much. It has a, maybe at the lake has a strong mother daughter
[21:33]storyline in it. And this book has a strong best friend female friendship storyline in it that I've
[21:39]been really working on in addition to the love story. And yeah, I can't wait to talk about it for it.
[21:45]Like, I'm just so excited about it. Isn't it annoying that, like, the book can't just come out
[21:50]right now? Yes. Yeah. It's annoying. Yes. Look, I understand it from a business perspective. And
[21:55]like, yeah, it's not finished yet, but also I just wanted to go out. I know. I'll just, like,
[22:01]long, lean time and did it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it's not worth it. Maybe there's a different way.
[22:07]I don't know. I don't know. I think this is good for me. This book a year kind of pace that I'm
[22:12]on journalism is really fast paced. And I worked at newspapers and I worked in digital publishing.
[22:17]And it was too fast. And I'm good at fast. And I'm good at deadlines. But being forced to slow down,
[22:24]I have to be forced to slow down. And I think that's ultimately probably for the best.
[22:28]Just think, well, I totally relate to the sort of immediacy. You know, it's like this culture.
[22:34]Like, okay, let's go. Like, let's just do it. Yeah, I can't give me all the fires and I will put them
[22:40]out one by one. Yeah. Then I will be really tired. So what have you been up to when you're not
[22:48]like writing, marketing, editing, blah, blah, blah. Honestly, this has been a great period of time
[22:53]creatively. It has been a terrible period of time, personally. Like, we have been sick in my house
[22:59]for eight months straight. I started, I started counting how many illnesses we had had and then
[23:04]I stopped when it reached like a dozen. And we have had three healthy weeks since September. And
[23:11]I got in a car accident at the beginning of the year. And every week, I'm like, okay, things
[23:16]are going to turn around and they just get worse. Like, it's just been like a really hard time
[23:20]personally for a lot of reasons. So I'm doing very little, honestly, like reading and watching TV
[23:28]and then looking after sick people are being sick or, you know, it's just been that kind of time.
[23:32]But now it's spring. It was a really long winter here in Toronto, but it's just getting warm now
[23:38]at like, I'm going to put on a colorful dress. I am going to, through fashion, try to will myself
[23:44]a happy spring. And yeah, and right now, just in that like kind of pre-publication, like jitters,
[23:49]anxiety, excitement, weird time. I think the two months before publication are like the weirdest
[23:56]time to live through. Yeah, tough. Yeah. I am so sorry that even for going through all of that,
[24:03]what time it is. Yeah, I don't want to bring people down. Like, it's going to be
[24:06]people down. It's real life. I mean, life. It's been really hard. It's been a really hard one.
[24:12]And it's funny because people keep reaching out to see how things are going. And it's like,
[24:17]it's just not going good, but it's just not going good. But like, hopefully, like the book will
[24:23]come out and people will be excited to talk about the book. And I'm going to do a little Canadian tour
[24:28]and a little tour in the US. And I am really excited to get out of this house and talk to people
[24:35]and smile and get dressed. And really, I'm like, this book is going to come out and things are going
[24:42]to get better. That's my hope anyway. Well, maybe this whole thing is a turning point. Like you
[24:49]said, I hope so. I hope so. I'm sorry. It's a lot. Thank you. Thanks. You're talking about it. You
[24:55]know, and think open and you know. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Just it is what it is.
[25:05]You need to put like outfits for a better mood. Can you do a little post about that? Have you done
[25:10]one? And I didn't notice. Oh, haven't done one. And I like earlier this winter, I was experimenting
[25:17]with just getting dressed every day because I usually work in sweats. And I was like, no, you know what?
[25:22]I'm going to wear real clothes for a week. I miss wearing real clothes. And then after a few days,
[25:27]I was like, no, I really just want like a last-to-sized waistband. But now that it's warmer dresses are
[25:34]like, I basically feel like I'm wearing pajama, but it looks so happy.
[25:38]Those days I wear a last-to-sized waist skirts, which feel very similar to pajamas. They're like
[25:45]nice soft fabrics or shiny or whatever. Like, you know, they feel good, but they look much better.
[25:51]So I can throw it in a long skirt. And I'm dressed, but I'm still comfortable.
[25:58]That's a good strategy. I like, I'm also a bit lazy and I try to exercise in the day. So it's like,
[26:03]do I just put on my exercise clothes when I wake up? Or should I change in the day? Or is that
[26:08]just too much effort? I don't know. Well, if you want even for Zippy Mag, I would love to see like,
[26:16]top five outfits to turn your mood around. Will you do that? Something like that. It could be fun.
[26:20]Just like take your eye to try. Yeah. Yeah. And like, go in your closet or like,
[26:26]or don't do it for us. Do it for you. Just like, do a video of you. Like,
[26:29]I'm in a really bad mood and like today's terrible, but this pink and red dress from blah,
[26:34]blah, blah, blah, here's the link and get in a affiliate code so you can like make money on it.
[26:40]I know you're really busy, but I think you should come and be my
[26:43]it's not actually a medium marketer. I feel like so bad at these things. I feel like you should
[26:50]just add this to your extremely long list of things that you already do and come give me help.
[26:57]Great. I'd love it. Great. You don't need my help, but I,
[27:04]but start with that. I would love to see that. I bet other people. And then all your bonus content,
[27:08]even a couple of sentences. Okay. I'll give you, not like you need my help. You're like, this
[27:12]major star. Oh my gosh. No. Anyway. Oh my gosh. Just feel like there's all this opportunity.
[27:19]But anyway, okay. Well, Carly, this was really fun. Thank you for being so open about all of your
[27:24]stuff because I did everybody listening, which I keep forgetting that they do when I'm like,
[27:29]having like our time. I know. I know. But like, the people who are even striving on us today,
[27:34]I know it's going to help them because writing is hard and life is hard. And sometimes you just
[27:39]have to put on a pretty dress and get through it. I, yes, I agree. Thank you. And thank you so much
[27:44]for having me. I love talking to you. I love talking to you too. Okay. I hope that this week is better.
[27:50]It doesn't have to be a whole year. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Okay. Bye. Thanks for listening to
[27:58]this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at
[28:03]Zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at Zibi Owens.com
[28:09]and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[28:13]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan. Heck, texture sound for the sound editing. And thank you to
[28:18]Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.