Jen Hatmaker, MAKE ME CARE ABOUT...
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30-minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
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[0:57]Enjoy.
[1:03]Today, I have a very special episode with Jen Hatmaker.
[1:07]Jen Hatmaker has written several books, including New York Times bestsellers, for the
[1:11]love of mess and moxie and fierce free and full of fire.
[1:15]She hosts the For the Love podcast, which is one many awards and speaks all over the country.
[1:20]I actually just saw her speak at mom 2.0 in Phoenix, Arizona.
[1:24]And she was sensational, like truly one of the best speakers I've ever seen.
[1:28]She created Jen Hatmaker's book club where thousands of women who believe good books are
[1:33]everything and story still men are come together as part of her online community of millions
[1:38]of women.
[1:39]She says they are her life force and her personal think tank and common relief.
[1:43]She is also the host of the Make Me Care About podcast, which we will be talking about
[1:48]here.
[1:49]And I'll tell you more about that.
[1:50]Her latest book is Feed These People, which is a debut cookbook on sale now.
[1:55]Welcome Jen.
[1:56]Thanks so much for coming on mom's.
[1:57]Don't have time to read books.
[1:59]Love it.
[2:00]Love the title of your show, hilarious and true.
[2:03]Thanks for having me.
[2:04]I'm really excited to have you on for this bonus episode, which we are recording in partnership
[2:09]with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and a craft creative to learn all about your new
[2:15]podcast.
[2:16]Make me care about it.
[2:17]Fantastic.
[2:18]I'm thrilled to talk about it.
[2:19]And literally it slides exactly under the umbrella of what you are offering your community
[2:25]which is we want to know some stuff.
[2:27]We don't have time to read like dissertations about it, like give it to us brass stacks.
[2:32]That's exactly what this podcast is.
[2:34]Yes.
[2:35]I love it.
[2:36]And I want to talk about all your books too because I mean, it you just have so much cool
[2:39]stuff going on.
[2:40]Basically.
[2:41]Okay.
[2:42]I was watching some of the trailers for Make Me Care About and all of that.
[2:46]Why should we care about iodine salt?
[2:48]I know, right?
[2:49]And that's kind of the fun catch here on the entire series, which is we're going to bring
[2:57]to you a handful of topics that you're going to be like, what now?
[3:02]Like, what again?
[3:03]Like why?
[3:04]What is it?
[3:06]And yet these are deeply like rooted in issues going on both both domestically and abroad.
[3:14]And these are big deals in terms of justice work and environmental work and health work
[3:20]and progress work.
[3:22]And so I'm with you.
[3:24]I was like, so like I had I saw like I kind of feel like I know I've seen it on the
[3:29]label.
[3:30]I don't really know what that means.
[3:32]That's what this is here for.
[3:33]We got you covered like in short order, we're going to teach you a handful of things
[3:39]to care about.
[3:40]And you're going to see why.
[3:41]That's amazing.
[3:42]How did you end up partnering with the Bill moon to Gates Foundation on this?
[3:46]Right.
[3:47]That's not normal.
[3:50]That was not just a normal Wednesday, I am so flattered and honored, frankly, to be working
[3:59]with them.
[4:00]They've never done a podcast before.
[4:01]And so they were realizing that the foundation does monumental work in the world.
[4:07]It's hard to even really quantify the good, the Gates Foundation is doing in the world.
[4:12]And they were like, we are so deep in the bag on these issues, on these needs, on these
[4:19]people groups, on these cause areas.
[4:22]But we just kind of realized the ordinary folks that are out there living their life don't
[4:27]necessarily know.
[4:28]And so what if we put together podcast series for regular people, like maybe care about
[4:35]some of these things, just to bring us in collectively as being essentially good neighbors
[4:39]to each other globally.
[4:41]And so they just said, Jen, you are a regular person.
[4:45]And I'm like, I sure am.
[4:47]And they were like, would you be interested in hosting a series for us?
[4:52]It's from scratch.
[4:53]We've never done it before.
[4:54]We don't really know what we're doing, but we'd love to put together a podcast series
[4:59]for your community.
[5:00]And I said, I'm thrilled, honored.
[5:02]I was the easiest essay I ever gave.
[5:04]That is amazing.
[5:05]Did you already know them?
[5:06]Or was this literally a call out of the blue, like getting picked for a call out of
[5:10]the blue?
[5:11]Yeah, I've had my litigates on my podcast before.
[5:14]So we do have a connection, and mostly me looking in the window of the Gates Foundation
[5:20]going, man, you guys are doing good stuff like this is good work.
[5:24]And so our connection was kind of loose, but I was so flattered that they came and asked
[5:30]we went through a bunch of phone calls and a bunch of Zoom calls.
[5:34]And we finally were like, let's do this.
[5:36]Let's put it together.
[5:37]Amazing.
[5:38]So how many episodes per season, like what is the structure like of the podcast and who
[5:43]picks the topics?
[5:44]Do you get to pick all the things to care about?
[5:47]Tell me the all that all the guests too.
[5:50]We have really just one season at this point.
[5:53]I think we have 13 episodes might be up to 14.
[5:58]And this was all developed, of course, by the Gates Foundation in that these are some
[6:06]of their major cause areas where they are contributing and leading and innovating and
[6:11]researching.
[6:12]They're on the ground.
[6:13]I mean, these are in play already, they're in the works.
[6:17]And so because I was regular, I'm over here going, I don't know why I should care about
[6:22]syringes.
[6:23]I don't know why I should care about poop.
[6:25]I don't know why I should care about garbanzo beans.
[6:27]So really, I'm kind of like the target demographic.
[6:30]I just happen to also be the host.
[6:32]And so they were the ones who came to be and said, we'd like to connect you, Jen, with
[6:37]our brilliant leaders and scientists on the ground doing all this incredible work.
[6:45]You interview them and let's see if we can get collectively the community to care about
[6:50]some of these huge issues going on in our world.
[6:53]I love it.
[6:54]That's so cool.
[6:55]Well, what a blast.
[6:56]I love it.
[6:57]Yeah.
[6:58]Can we talk about your books a little bit as well?
[6:59]Sure.
[7:01]Cookbook out now, feed these people amazing with snippets from you and recipes and photos
[7:08]and all of the good stuff.
[7:09]Tell me more about that book and why now, why this book?
[7:14]Mm-hmm.
[7:15]It's outside my genre.
[7:16]I'm a writer, but you know, I typically write nonfiction books for women.
[7:21]That's sort of my space, which is development and growth and sort of the basically emotional
[7:29]and spiritual care of women.
[7:31]That's really where I concentrate, but I have always loved to cook.
[7:34]I'm a cook.
[7:35]I'm just a home cook, like a normal person who just cooks for the people that live here.
[7:39]And I've sort of dabbled for years putting recipes online on all my socials.
[7:45]I've even had them in my last two or three books just kind of as a little here.
[7:50]Here's a little bonus.
[7:51]And so basically my community has been asking me to write a cookbook for almost a decade.
[7:58]And finally, this is no joke.
[8:01]They started an online petition, thousands of people signed this thing to get me to write
[8:06]a cookbook.
[8:07]And I was like, you guys cannot just bully me into writing something.
[8:12]That's not how it works, except it did.
[8:15]And so I wrote this at long last book and it was so fun.
[8:22]I literally cannot write another one.
[8:24]It was just a blast.
[8:26]I loved writing it.
[8:27]I loved spending a million hours in my kitchen, testing all the recipes, feeding all my people.
[8:32]I really love food writing.
[8:34]That's really fun for me.
[8:35]The whole book is hilarious.
[8:36]Even if you're not a cook, it reads like a stand-up comedy show.
[8:41]So I can't tell you how many readers are like, I don't cook.
[8:44]I don't want to cook, but I sat down with your book and write it like a novel.
[8:48]I'm like, great.
[8:49]Perfect.
[8:50]Whatever you want to do, man.
[8:51]I write it for you.
[8:52]What you do with it is up to you entirely.
[8:53]It's called Feed These People, and it's just the most fun, such a good time.
[8:57]That's amazing.
[8:59]I went back in red of mess and moxie, and I have to say, from the very first pages,
[9:05]I had chills up and down my arms when you started with this one's for the girl of 38.
[9:11]This one's for the girl of 59.
[9:13]And I was just like, oh my gosh, and I was imagining this montage of my life before my eyes.
[9:19]And then you go in and give all the advice.
[9:20]But oh my gosh, that was so powerful.
[9:23]Thank you.
[9:24]What a lovely thing to say.
[9:25]Of all the books I've written, I think that's
[9:27]my favorite intro I've ever written.
[9:29]And I just, of course, patterned it after my dynamic brides song, this one's for the girls,
[9:35]where she's just sort of went decade by decade.
[9:38]And that was so meaningful to me because I have five kids and my kids range from 17 to
[9:46]25.
[9:47]So I have a bunch of young adults that belong to me.
[9:52]And I love them.
[9:53]And I believe them.
[9:54]And I care about them.
[9:55]So now that I'm 48, so I'm getting close to 50 and the.
[10:00]fact that people look to me in their teens in 20s and 30s and then my age 40s and even some
[10:07]women that are older than me, for leadership and for influence and for really sisterhood
[10:14]will just never stop freaking me out. It is so profoundly special to me and I take it
[10:20]incredibly seriously. That is a huge responsibility to me. And so when I wrote that
[10:26]intro, I thought everyone's welcome at my table. I don't care if you are in college.
[10:32]I don't care if you are retired, like all women are welcome at my table. And so thank you for
[10:39]pointing out that intro. I sure loved writing it. Oh, no, I loved it. And you recently re-released
[10:45]your book that was seven into a new, what's the new title? It's called Simple and Free.
[10:52]And now it's two groups that you remember apparently. It was a social experiment that I did a
[10:58]little over a decade ago, kind of radical, it felt radical at the time. Social experiment in which I
[11:05]took seven areas where I just felt like I had too much of it all, like clothes and food, spending
[11:13]waste, stress, like all these things where I'm like, it's just too much. It's all too much. And I
[11:17]I spent one month on each category and I paired my options down to just seven things. So like,
[11:24]for example, I only, I ate the same seven foods for a month. I wore the same seven pieces of clothing
[11:30]for a month. I only spent places and seven, or spent money in seven places for a month, etc.
[11:37]And then I thought, let's just see how it feels. Let's see what happens. I didn't know what was
[11:40]going to happen. But it was, it was radical and it changed my life and I learned so much and I
[11:46]learned to live a little lighter on this earth and to care for it in ways that were more meaningful
[11:52]and long-lasting and sustainable. But it needed an update. It was a 10 experiment from 10 years ago
[11:57]when I learned so much and said, and the world has changed so much in 10 years. And so I went back
[12:04]through and sort of reworked it and added everything in that I learned. There were a handful of things
[12:09]that I set up. I wrote this 10 years ago and I understand this thing differently now. But I left it
[12:16]in. But I put all these like additions and said, let me, I'd like to add some more commentary to what
[12:21]I said before. That's as much as I knew at the time. And this is what I know now. And so you kind
[12:26]of watch in real time, 10 years of growth because I both left in the original and then added
[12:32]so much more work to it. So anyway, the newest version is called Simple and Free.
[12:37]And so what did you, what's like the main takeaway? Is it better to have less than your choices
[12:44]and live more intentionally? Almost without exception. I mean, there's almost no exception
[12:49]where that was true. Like, one of the months, and this was, I mean, keep in mind, this is like
[12:54]2011. So if you can really even think about one of the categories was media and technology. And so
[13:00]even how much that has changed since 2011. So going back and reading my earliest work where
[13:07]we were still sort of at the earlier stages of social media, but we didn't even have Instagram
[13:12]yet. Like reading it, I just went, oh man, I wish I would have taken my advice even more.
[13:18]Now that it is so all consuming and we're having to really fight against the machine. And so
[13:24]I really didn't find any area in which I think more was more. It was all a relief and a comfort
[13:34]to sort of clear out a lot of the just chaos and clutter and noise. And I think often
[13:42]fondly back on those seven months because of how revolutionary it ended up being for like the way
[13:51]that we live our lives. I love social experiments like that. If you read Tiffany Schline,
[13:56]she takes a text about every Saturday into a whole experiment. What would it be like if her family
[14:00]did not use technology for one full day each week. And how would that change her family?
[14:05]Yeah. As you can imagine, it made it much. It does. Yeah. I mean, you think, I mean, one day,
[14:11]like one day off big deal, it matters. Yeah. It matters because of what you experience
[14:17]alternatively. So it's not just that you've eliminated a noisy channel. It's that in its absence,
[14:27]you learn to live differently. You fill your time differently. You prioritize connection and
[14:32]experiences and adventures differently. So it's not just what's missing. It's what you add that you
[14:39]just simply wouldn't have otherwise because we're too busy filling in our eyes and our brains
[14:45]with everything else. And so that's a great suggestion. I'll be sure to write that down.
[14:49]For people who aren't as familiar with you and your whole trajectory to being the big deal that you
[14:54]how did you get started? And how does one even join your community? Where is that? Where does that
[14:59]live and where should they go and all of them? And so I've got just a really slow trajectory.
[15:07]I have I'm definitely not a flash in the pan. Definitely not like a one hit wonder that just
[15:14]spiked all of a sudden. And my community has grown really slowly over a lot of years and
[15:22]just one book at a time, one reader at a time, one person at a time, which I love because it gives
[15:28]my community a lot of depth. We have a lot of staying power. Our loyalty to each other is very
[15:35]baked in. And so it just makes us sturdy. And this isn't just a shallow community with shallow roots.
[15:40]It's really rooted. And so at this point, I've got a lot of books to choose from. And I have two
[15:48]podcasts. My podcast, which is called For the Love. And then the make me care about podcasts with
[15:52]the Gates Foundation, which is just out. I mean, it's we really just started recently releasing
[15:58]just the first two episodes. And so those come out every Wednesday. And and then I have a book club
[16:02]gen how make a book club. And that's one front door. I just have so many things. In general,
[16:09]I would say our community largely gathers together on my social feeds. That is the easiest,
[16:16]most free front door to see what the fuss is about to see what the shenanigans are. And there
[16:22]are lots. It's a lot of shenanigans. And so my social feed is where most people join. And where
[16:30]I get introduced to my community. And then I've got plenty of places. If you want to kind of
[16:34]hold down the funnel, I've got tons of sub communities and me courses and podcast and book clubs and
[16:41]all these incredible other spaces to connect and belong, but gen hat maker on all the socials
[16:47]is usually the front door. I've started something similar, but it's more in its infancy, but I have
[16:53]a book club not like as big as yours, but I have thousands of people in my book club. And I have
[16:57]this podcast. Obviously, mom, so I'm trying to read books. I opened a bookstore in Santa Monica.
[17:01]We have lots of it. We have retreats magazine to be made. Anyway, so I feel like I love it so much.
[17:09]I'm trying to build a community. But anyway, so looking at you, I love that. That's it.
[17:15]That's what we can do. We just we take what we love and what we have and we build the community
[17:20]around what we care about together. And and then we grow it just person by person. And I'm not
[17:28]interested in anything that promises sort of razzle dazzle like here's a way to spike or here's
[17:35]I don't know. I just don't all that is easy come easy go. And so I think what really matters is
[17:40]building something lasting that has depth to it. That's thoughtful and intentional a place with just
[17:48]a lot of connective tissue to it. Like that's the stuff that I'll hang on, right? Like all these
[17:54]we're not looking to be a TikTok star that'll just slash in March and be over by October. And so
[18:02]building is a way harder work, way slower, way more fits and starts. But at the end of the day,
[18:10]I think that's what you and I will end up holding and we proud of it. And and it also, of course,
[18:16]as youth probably experienced, the community gives to me, I feel like far more than I've ever given
[18:22]to them. And so it is reciprocal, which is really saying something in this world, which feels so
[18:28]isolated and disconnected. And so good for you. Keep going. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I feel like it
[18:34]does become self-serving when I'm upset about something or I post about it. And then all these
[18:39]people respond and then they start responding all to each other. Yeah. It's like it's really awesome.
[18:44]Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. Right. The sum ends up being greater than the parks. Yes. And it takes on a
[18:50]life of its own. I've always just said, I don't care if it is in person in a live room, in a chat
[18:58]virtually, you put enough women together and they will create their own community with or without
[19:02]your leadership. Like, you don't have to influence it. You don't have to even make it happen. It
[19:08]will happen. And so women are the greatest. That's yeah. So well said. That's amazing. Are you
[19:14]working on any new books now? Not yet. I had a book sort of contractually that I was supposed to
[19:22]write in the last couple of years. And then my life just took such a different turn. And I just
[19:29]wasn't ready to write. I'm not I'm actually still not quite ready. And so I just said, I need to put
[19:35]a pin in this. I lost my marriage after 26 years. And and then it was the pandemic. And it was just
[19:42]all the losses were so compounded and so unexpected, right? Or just no precedents, at least
[19:48]for either of them in my world. And so I am always committed to never writing from sort of like
[19:55]a gaping wound. I want to make sure that I'm writing from a scar. And
[20:00]So I just, I haven't been ready.
[20:01]I needed to live this chapter of my life
[20:05]before I was ready to write about this chapter of my life.
[20:07]So we'll see.
[20:09]Like hopefully in the next couple of years,
[20:11]writing is my favorite thing that I do
[20:12]out of everything that I do.
[20:14]And so I look forward to putting pen back to paper.
[20:18]It's so smart to know you're not ready.
[20:19]I mean, so many people don't have that self-knowledge
[20:22]or the confidence to wait
[20:23]or knowing what's gonna be a better product
[20:25]in the end for everybody.
[20:26]So that's right.
[20:28]I also got divorced.
[20:29]I have four kids.
[20:30]I'm remarried now, but anyway, lots of...
[20:33]Yeah, I'm sorry that we have that in common,
[20:35]but we're both learning you've learned.
[20:38]There is a very vibrant, possible life
[20:41]on the other side of that loss,
[20:43]which you couldn't have told me that three years ago,
[20:45]but now I know it's true.
[20:47]I think that's what especially women like to know
[20:50]is that there's no,
[20:51]you don't ever run out of time
[20:53]where you can't change things.
[20:55]Never.
[20:56]Always, you can always pivot and care about something new.
[21:00]Always, always.
[21:01]We're never out of time.
[21:03]It's never too late.
[21:04]We're never too old.
[21:05]Something's never too far gone.
[21:07]There's always possibility.
[21:09]And so sometimes we choose it.
[21:13]Sometimes it's chosen for us, but regardless,
[21:16]we get to decide what we're gonna do with that pain.
[21:18]And I have learned that that tends
[21:22]to be a pretty reliable front door to growth
[21:25]if we'll let it.
[21:26]Yes, absolutely.
[21:28]And the book club, tell me a little more about that.
[21:30]How do you pick the books?
[21:31]How often does it mean?
[21:32]Like how do people join?
[21:34]My book comes virtual.
[21:36]Well, that's how it started, of course.
[21:37]It's virtual in all the states.
[21:39]I think we have members in every state.
[21:41]And then of course, as women do, as mentioned earlier,
[21:43]without our influence leadership or suggestion,
[21:47]they started meeting locally.
[21:49]They started finding each other.
[21:50]Who's in Chicago?
[21:51]And who's in Philadelphia?
[21:53]And so now we have like chapters locally
[21:55]that meet everywhere when they get together in person.
[21:58]And we have a book a month.
[22:00]And it's the most final.
[22:02]And then the author of that book
[22:04]always does a dedicated podcast with me for the book club.
[22:08]So we get to ask her,
[22:09]we mostly feature female writers.
[22:11]Our specific questions about the book and the plot
[22:14]and the characters.
[22:15]And of course, we hit a lot of genres.
[22:16]We've had it all memoir, historical fiction,
[22:19]every kind of novel we've had,
[22:22]we did an autobiography on RBG.
[22:25]Like we're not genre specific.
[22:27]We're just good books specific.
[22:29]And so it's called The Gen Hatmaker Book Club.
[22:32]And I always call it the just best little corner
[22:35]on the internet because we have a private Facebook group
[22:38]that is just so connected and so dear, so safe.
[22:43]And we do book stuff over there,
[22:45]but we do mostly life stuff over there.
[22:47]And so it's a joy.
[22:48]It's one of my favorite things.
[22:50]Talking about books is really talking about life.
[22:53]I mean, it's just a conversation.
[22:55]That's right.
[22:56]I should have mentioned now here.
[22:56]I'm just like advertising myself here,
[22:58]but I also started a publishing company.
[23:00]And we published one book a month in fiction and memoir.
[23:02]We've really, really great books.
[23:04]Wow.
[23:05]I'd love to send you any if you're interested or.
[23:07]Wow.
[23:08]But I think you'll like them.
[23:09]I, they're all written by women, we're women.
[23:11]Yeah.
[23:12]I don't do an operated company.
[23:13]We one guy, the rest of us are women.
[23:15]And they all have like a strong sense of voice
[23:17]and place and repulsive writing and narratives.
[23:20]Anyway, I think you're like for you.
[23:22]The publishing company is no joke.
[23:24]It's no joke.
[23:25]That is an undertaking.
[23:28]Yeah, I could just do that.
[23:29]And I would be busy enough.
[23:30]No question, especially one book a month.
[23:33]That is a lot.
[23:34]That means you are in development a year and a half out.
[23:38]So yeah, yeah, that's a serious deal.
[23:42]All right, we have our list set
[23:42]through the end of 2024 now.
[23:44]Yeah.
[23:45]Yeah.
[23:46]All right, well, if you don't mind, I could send you.
[23:48]I would love it.
[23:50]Anyway, but I can delete it if you're like, no, I would love it.
[23:53]Of course I would.
[23:54]I'm a book lover.
[23:55]I'm a book club lover and creator and curator.
[24:00]So yes, of course.
[24:01]Thank you for the offer.
[24:02]Amazing.
[24:03]Okay, so what are we going to care about next?
[24:06]Like what's next up on your let's see.
[24:08]Who are you most excited about?
[24:10]Oh yeah, so I don't know when this is going to air.
[24:13]But last week, one of my favorite episodes came out,
[24:17]which was maternal mortality, specifically black mumps.
[24:22]Black maternal mortality in the US is fundamentally unacceptable
[24:27]and kind of a quiet issue.
[24:28]And so tomorrow we talk about Garbanzo beans
[24:32]just to the average conversation we're all having,
[24:35]which turns out to be a superfood
[24:37]and an answer to malnutrition
[24:41]in really profound ways globally.
[24:43]So that one was really exciting.
[24:45]And we go on from there.
[24:46]We have some, we have one on college
[24:49]and does it still matter in today's day and age?
[24:52]And what is the day to show?
[24:53]We have one episode that talks about the single grade
[24:57]between K through 12 that is the highest predictor
[25:00]of a student's success more than any other grade.
[25:04]And what was really interesting?
[25:06]Yes, third grade.
[25:08]Great guess.
[25:09]I had guessed, hinder or first,
[25:11]I was thinking about emerging literacy.
[25:13]And my second guess was junior year
[25:15]because that's that launch year getting,
[25:19]it's ninth grade.
[25:21]And the data is unambiguous
[25:23]and it's really an interesting conversation.
[25:26]And then we still have my very favorite episode
[25:28]coming up in May, which is digital money.
[25:31]And what happens when we can get women
[25:35]access to digital money globally?
[25:37]What it does for the GDP?
[25:38]What it does for the economy, the community,
[25:40]the family unit?
[25:41]It's profoundly exciting.
[25:44]And of course, I'm someone who specializes
[25:45]in the empowerment of women.
[25:47]So I mean, I couldn't get enough of that one.
[25:48]I wanted to stay on that episode for 100 years
[25:51]and be like, and then what did we do?
[25:53]It's all very fascinating and very hopeful.
[25:56]Like I learned so much,
[25:58]but I also watch way going,
[26:00]look at these brilliant people on the ground with solutions.
[26:04]Like this is a solution led series.
[26:08]And it's very exciting and I feel so grateful
[26:12]that they've contributed their expertise
[26:14]and their knowledge and of course their time to the show.
[26:17]And it's just like, I feel very privileged and honored
[26:21]to get to sort of roll out these conversations
[26:23]to the community.
[26:25]That's so fun.
[26:26]Well, thank you so much for coming on.
[26:29]Thank you to the listeners for listening
[26:31]to our special episode today created in partnership
[26:33]with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation
[26:35]and ACAST creative.
[26:36]Please listen to make me care about.
[26:38]And Jen, thank you so much.
[26:39]Thanks for chatting and doing this whole podcast.
[26:42]And you are such an inspiration to me.
[26:45]I just, yes, you're just like a model that it can work
[26:49]and it can go on for a long time.
[26:51]And it makes a difference and just to keep going.
[26:54]So you don't know how much you're inspiring me, but you are.
[26:57]So thank you.
[26:58]What a lovely thing to say.
[26:59]That means the world to me.
[27:01]Thank you so much for having me on for a little bonus episode.
[27:04]I'm delighted to be inside your community.
[27:07]I'm cheering you on.
[27:08]Thank you.
[27:09]You too.
[27:10]All right, take care.
[27:11]Bye-bye.
[27:13]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[27:15]Don't have time to read books.
[27:17]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens
[27:20]and at Moms Don't have time to read books.
[27:22]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com
[27:24]and sign up for my virtual book club
[27:26]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[27:29]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[27:30]In fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[27:33]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[27:34]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.