Hanna Halperin, I COULD LIVE HERE FOREVER
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[1:03]Hannah Halperin is back on mom's don't have time to read books for a second time to
[1:07]discuss I could live here forever, a novel.
[1:10]Hannah is also the author of Something Wild.
[1:13]And Something Wild won the 2021 Edward Lewis Wildland Award and was a finalist for the
[1:19]2021 National Jewish Book Award for Davey Fiction.
[1:23]Her stories have been published in the Candion Review and plus one New Ohio Review and
[1:27]Joyland.
[1:28]She has taught fiction workshops at Grub Street in Boston and worked as a domestic violence
[1:33]counselor.
[1:34]Welcome, Hannah.
[1:35]Thanks for coming back on mom's don't have time to read books to discuss I could live
[1:38]here forever.
[1:39]Thanks for having me.
[1:40]Sure.
[1:41]Your novel was beautiful.
[1:42]Just like Something Wild, which I also loved.
[1:44]So thank you for this.
[1:46]I feel like you write so well about these heavy feelings, grief, disappearance, loss and
[1:54]also writing and sort of this coming of age search for self through everything and family.
[2:01]I don't know.
[2:02]All these things like get wrapped right up and it's really powerful.
[2:05]So anyway, thanks.
[2:06]Thank you so much.
[2:08]Tell listeners what I could live here forever is about.
[2:12]Yeah.
[2:13]So I could live here forever is about this young woman, Leah, who moves to Madison, Wisconsin
[2:18]to get her MFA.
[2:21]And when she's there, she meets the sky Charlie in line at the grocery store and they
[2:26]very quickly fall in love and they fall into this intense relationship.
[2:30]And he is recovering heroin addict and it kind of follows their intense and tumultuous
[2:36]relationship.
[2:37]I feel like it also is about her sort of processing her mother's disappearance and what
[2:44]it means to have a mom who, well, her brother said she was like Looney Tunes or whatever,
[2:49]but who was perhaps mentally ill who left the family early and had a sort of reconcile
[2:56]that sort of loss and trying to wrestle with that.
[2:59]Talk to me about that whole case because I found that so poignant and interesting.
[3:03]Yeah.
[3:04]A big piece of the novels you get to know both Leah's family and Charlie's family pretty
[3:10]well.
[3:12]And you learn right away that Charlie's father had abandoned his family before he was born
[3:18]and Leah's mother had abandoned the family when she was 13 and right away this kind of
[3:23]like bonds.
[3:25]And this is a big theme in like Leah's writing and she's constantly writing these stories
[3:28]about childless mothers or daughters without mothers and this is something that she's thinking
[3:35]about all the time and it kind of haunts her.
[3:38]And it was something that I actually in the first draft was sort of it was there.
[3:43]It was kind of a brush stroke but it came out more in revision sort of what was this missing
[3:48]piece for Leah and what was she searching so desperately for.
[3:52]And she gets to know Charlie's family really well and she gets to know Charlie's mom
[3:57]really well and Charlie's mom is this like incredibly warm kind of maternal figure and
[4:05]part of her draw towards Charlie is this sense of home that she finds in Charlie and Charlie's
[4:13]mom and kind of the feeling she has when she's at Charlie's house and it's very complicated
[4:18]because what's going on in the house is not so simple Charlie is into the relationship
[4:24]he very quickly relapses and Leah is kind of in total denial about what's going on and
[4:30]her relationship with his mother is not so simple either but I think in her mind she wants
[4:35]it to be simple.
[4:36]She wants kind of this very simple maternal love that she's always craved and so that's
[4:42]part of what keeps her so kind of wrapped up in the world of Charlie.
[4:48]I feel like if that's not written about enough how when you date someone or for a long
[4:52]time or whatever you you really inherit their family for a while and you got to sort
[4:57]of slither in and see all the little secrets and everything and you grow really attached
[5:03]and then you break up and it's like what happens yes like I have families that I still
[5:07]lot like I love them like they are families but they're no longer in my life really
[5:12]so I don't know exactly you get to kind of be part of another family for a little bit
[5:16]and it's kind of foreign but you can grow as you said like extremely attached so that
[5:23]happens with Leah and she she's in a totally new part of the country and she's always you
[5:27]know she's always felt a bit like an outsider that's kind of the character that I
[5:31]wrote whether it's in her own family or she's part of this MFA cohort whether she actually
[5:36]is an outsider or not and that's kind of just how she perceives herself and again I think
[5:40]part of why she's drawn to Charlie is he's a bit of an outsider too and so they you
[5:45]know they resonate with each other that way but there's something about Charlie's home
[5:50]ironically there's a steadiness to it that she's never quite felt even though the relationship
[5:56]that she's gotten in herself into is kind of complete chaos but there's something about
[6:02]that home life that she she really is is quite drawn to I also really like the scenes
[6:09]of the MFA program and all the anxiety of writing and all the writing within the book
[6:15]at one point I turned it over and I was like this is a novel right I just make sure you're
[6:18]just like yeah check just triple check there's like the scene where she's trying to defend
[6:24]her idea of writing about you know mothers and daughters and she's like well you know
[6:27]I had a mother and I mean she didn't die but you know she left and you know everyone
[6:33]has a mom and I am a daughter and I don't know it was just funny like this need to sort
[6:37]of defend what you're what you're writing about and what you're doing and make excuses
[6:42]all that insecurity had all wound up with her as well yeah yeah no I it is a novel I did
[6:49]go to you know University of Wisconsin Madison from MFA so I did pull a lot of details from
[6:56]that time and from what it was like to be in the MFA the cohort is made up like the
[7:02]people in the cohort are made up but there were like moment like you know we just have
[7:05]an age of come and it started off quite a bit but and you know starting to submit to journals
[7:11]and sort of like this really strange mix of like any of my experience anyway is like I felt
[7:16]so close to the people in my cohort and at the beginning anyway like I actually didn't
[7:20]feel that much competition and sort of then as we sort of continued on and there was
[7:26]more of this anxiety of like what's gonna happen after we leave I did start to feel more
[7:31]competitive and I think probably I was starting to feel anxiety about my own future and it
[7:36]had lots to do with the other people in the cohort but it was that strange mix of feeling
[7:41]competitive and then also feeling like these were the people I felt closest to so I would sort
[7:47]of draw on some of the feelings and some of the actual events but the people and the you know
[7:53]everything was fictionalized but it was I was sort of drawing on some intimate things in this book yeah
[7:59]while having not received an MFA or having gone there specifically it was a nice little
[8:04]glimpse even like the neighborhood bar with the games as like is this bar 74 there was or bar 73
[8:09]there's a bar that looks exactly like enough so she must be talking about that different different
[8:15]I mean of course I haven't been there in like 30 years or something maybe no no no no no well you
[8:20]know anyway it doesn't matter so in the story you wait I pulled out a couple quotes that I went
[8:27]to talk to you about oh there was something beautiful about the mom you said I remember my mother
[8:32]as someone who was always searching for something she seemed lost like she ended up in our house
[8:37]in our family by accident that was so beautiful haunting dislocation and then when she talks
[8:44]about her family when you say my mother's presence was bigger than my father's she talked more
[8:49]hug tighter cried harder laugh latter yelled scarier we inherited our father's height but other than
[8:55]that we all look more like her and you go on to talk about her as an artist and all of that and
[9:00]then it relates to when you finally say the nice thing about writing was it took pain and warped
[9:07]it into something useful I could shape it into a beginning and a middle and an end it was
[9:11]manageable that way and it was mine sharp and beautiful by the time I was done with it it was just
[9:16]a story so what stories of your own have you used writing to sort of make your way through
[9:21]I mean everything I've written I think I've been trying to work something through I think like
[9:27]what you just read that's part of why I write with this particular novel I started writing it
[9:33]because I was thinking about the feeling of what it's like to be in relationships where there's like
[9:40]really high highs and really low lows and what it's like to be in a relationship where it's like
[9:45]loving and terrible at once and how it can be so cyclical and not necessarily like an abusive
[9:53]relationship or like not necessarily having the words to describe or the labels to describe
[9:58]a relationship but
[10:00]knowing that the relationship felt like impossible to get out of and I think like I've been in
[10:05]relationships like this before. It can feel so impossible to describe what those relationships
[10:12]feel like and why they can feel so, so difficult to leave and I've never been addicted to a drug
[10:20]but I feel like I know the feeling of what it's like to be addicted to another person and it felt
[10:24]really interesting to me to sort of like what would it be like to write about a relationship
[10:29]between the young woman and the man where the man was addicted to something that like in my mind
[10:34]is probably the most addictive thing you could be addicted to and then where the woman almost
[10:39]begins to be addicted to the relationship in maybe not the same way that in a way where she resonates
[10:45]with him in that way and that's kind of how I got the idea for Leah and Charlie and so I pulled
[10:52]from my own from my own experience and my own feelings you know the story is is fiction on
[10:59]that the characters are fictional but I kind of drew from both like the feelings of pain and the
[11:04]feelings of love that I've had in in my past. Oh it's hard this is an understatement but if you're so
[11:12]in love with someone and they are addicted or to something else or have some thing that competes
[11:17]with you then it's never really in balance right and so it's that lopsided feeling of when you give
[11:24]of yourself and you can't get back an equal measure and do you keep giving or do you not keep giving
[11:29]or is it really a choice after a while? Yeah kind of feels impossible so I don't know if there's
[11:36]an answer but good to have it out there I mean the innermost secrets of relationships obviously
[11:43]there are lots of books written about love and all this but it is very complicated and there
[11:48]need to be stories like this that are a little bit more not so clear cut like of course this
[11:53]person will leave of course this person won't leave like it's I don't know it's good to get into
[11:57]the mess of it all. Yeah when I was writing it it felt pretty messy to me and that there were times
[12:04]where I was writing about Leah and Charlie and it seemed to me like I was writing a love story
[12:10]and then there were times where I was like this is a story about to really co-dependent
[12:15]manipulative perhaps abusive people and it was constantly going back and forth and it seemed
[12:24]really like I was like I can't stop and analyze and try to figure out like what this relationship
[12:29]is I just need to sort of stay in the moment and like really try to honestly describe like how
[12:35]would Leah react in this moment how would Charlie react in this moment and not try to judge
[12:40]what does that mean about them as a person or as a character and then just kind of write the whole
[12:46]novel and maybe I can try to figure it out afterwards I still don't really have a grasp on like how
[12:51]to necessarily describe the relationship but just sort of know that it's complicated and messy
[12:56]and people can be complicated and messy and I don't have to necessarily give it late evolves.
[13:01]Whatever this relationship parallel was in your life you managed to get out of I'm assuming.
[13:07]Oh no yeah I mean again it's it's Mia is not me I know I know I know I know I know you know
[13:16]the relationships that I did drop on for inspiration it is all in the past yeah.
[13:23]It was funny how in the beginning of the book Leah is worried because she perceives him to be
[13:28]so much cuter right like she's so handsome and whatever and you know she's not attractive enough
[13:33]to be with him and whatever and then later you reference when Leah is talking about her writing
[13:39]role models one of which is courtesy and then it's so funny because her book just came out and
[13:44]that is sort of the premise that you know what is it like when more attractive women end up
[13:49]with less attractive guys or sort of this imbalance of perceived good looks within a couple
[13:55]anyway I just found that you know I mean it's a big thing that comes up in the book where Leah
[14:01]is you know she's always describing what Charlie looks like and she's so unamored by you know how
[14:07]beautiful he is and in some ways she she can't see him clearly at all she's always kind of trying
[14:14]to figure out like is he lying is he nice is he not nice is he using is he not using but one
[14:20]thinks she can see very clearly is that he's like incredibly beautiful and that doesn't really
[14:25]like change for her and people are always asking her like you know why are you with him why do you
[14:30]keep going back to him and I think it's deeper for her than just that she's attracted to him
[14:35]but that attraction is is so intense for her and it feels almost like a superficial answer to say
[14:41]well I'm attracted to him but it's a huge piece is that she's incredibly attracted to him
[14:48]yeah so we are all animals yeah at heart yeah there's he can start to ignore yeah especially when
[14:54]you have him smile and all this I was like oh who is this I like have this fictional guy in my head
[14:59]now is yeah when you think about him and maybe do you have someone in mind is there movie stars
[15:05]or is there somebody who he looks like to you or is he more just this fictitious guy I don't know
[15:11]if I have a movie star in in mind I'd have to think about that I I describe him in like an early
[15:18]scene there's like a mix between Johnny Dapp and Jake John Hall and so I do imagine him with this
[15:24]kind of like very boyish charm good luck yeah very like kind of sweet smile but I'd have to think
[15:32]of kind of I was thinking what the I don't know why as I was reading I had more of like a
[15:37]Chris Hemsworth type of guy okay yeah you know I don't know like lighter hair and I don't know I
[15:43]mean still brown I don't know sort of that smile that I don't know yeah yeah like work too
[15:51]anyway so tell me about writing this book was this did you write it during the pandemic
[15:56]it was it before like was tell me about that whole process yeah I wrote it during the pandemic
[16:02]it was kind of like pretty early pandemic days and I wrote it very quickly like I kind of
[16:09]got the idea I actually it started from an essay that I was writing having to do with something
[16:15]wild and it was something about domestic violence and I kind of kept going off onto these tangents
[16:21]about kind of what I was talking about like relationships with high highs low lows and I was realizing
[16:25]like I'm kind of much more interested in writing something fictional like about what it's like
[16:30]to be in a relationship that is kind of so cyclical that way and once I realized like what I was
[16:36]actually interested in writing about I had the idea for Leah and Charlie and I started writing it
[16:41]one day and I kind of just kept writing I wrote the first draft in about two months which is like
[16:47]much faster than I've written anything I think just because I was like so caught up and involved
[16:53]in the world and in the relationship and it was really I was kind of in a weird place and it was
[16:59]you know very isolated very you know early days pandemic and it was kind of soothing to me to like
[17:05]go into I mean even though it's kind of a disturbing novel like it was kind of soothing to me to go
[17:10]into this very reclusive world and just kind of lose myself in it and so I was able to write the
[17:17]first draft really quickly and then it was a very raw first draft and then spend a lot more time
[17:22]on revision kind of filling a lot of the gaps because the first draft was almost entirely Leah and
[17:27]Charlie and then it was a lot kind of figuring out like what's the world that they're in like
[17:32]okay they're in Madison Wisconsin Leah's in the MFA program who were their families and kind of
[17:38]really filling those gaps interesting yeah I love the scene I mean it's sad but at her
[17:43]Bob Mitzvah when her mom doesn't show up and you just wrote that scene so clearly and
[17:48]I could so see it and the celebration mixed with sorrow where the and the two are often so closely
[17:54]linked right with any sort of loss or bad thing going on so I don't know I love that that moment
[18:02]her being you know lifted up in the chairs and yet the one she wanted to be there not being there
[18:07]so I think everyone can relate are you working on anything new or did you whip out like three more
[18:13]novels during the pandemic I kind of have like some early stuff that I'm thinking about but
[18:21]nothing formulated ready to talk about and what do you up to when you're not editing work and
[18:27]a new project all that I've been working as a domestic violence counselor and I actually left my
[18:35]job about the month ago like right before all the publication stuff started so I'm kind of at like a
[18:44]weird transition point because I've been doing that for about like seven years and now this book
[18:50]came out and so I'm kind of reassessing everything and we'll begin my next project and then kind
[18:56]of decide what's coming next but this last month has been mostly felt with publication stuff and
[19:02]working on essays and getting everything out so it's been pretty busy wow at least you can focus
[19:08]on it yeah that's nice yeah you know not having to do the juggle do you have any advice for aspiring
[19:14]authors you know I think the advice I would give would be the same advice I'll probably give myself
[19:20]as I'm like starting a project is to like give yourself permission to write the thing that makes you
[19:29]really excited and like if you find that there are either ideas or characters or themes or whatever it
[19:36]is that keeps kind of coming back into your head again and again allow yourself to go kind of where
[19:42]like the excitement or the energy is and if you know if you're enjoying or having fun writing it
[19:48]like people are going to resonate with that so that works yeah it's good advice you know
[19:55]very good advice and the ending I just I mean I won't give anything a
[20:00]I, but very, very powerful.
[20:01]The whole thing.
[20:02]Thank you so really nice, I guess.
[20:05]Anyway, well, thanks for coming back on.
[20:06]I really love the way you write.
[20:08]I can't wait to read what you write next to me.
[20:09]Oh, thank you so much, Debbie.
[20:10]I really appreciate it.
[20:12]That's true.
[20:12]All right.
[20:13]Okay, have a great day, and thanks so much.
[20:15]I'll just enjoy the ride.
[20:17]Okay, bye.
[20:21]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[20:23]Don't have time to read books.
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