Judy Blume + Rachel McAdams, Abby Ryder Fortson, and Kelly Fremon Craig, ARE YOU THERE GOD? IT'S ME, MARGARET (film)

[2:08]Zibby Owens: Hi. I'm Zibby Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books. This thirty minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, three hundred and sixty five days a year for about thirty minutes. I am also the publisher for Zippy Books, which publishes 12 books a year in fiction and memoir. Our books are already out now. You can check it out on zippybooks.com. And we have a magazine called Zippy Mag where we have lots of wonderful essays and lifestyle features. That's at zippymag.com. We have classes at zippyclasses.com. And I recently opened a bookstore in LA called Zippy's Bookshop at 1113 Montana Avenue at 11th Street in Santa Monica. I hope that you are able to enjoy some of our other offerings, but this here podcast is the basis of all of it and started in 2018. And no matter what I do, this is basically my favorite thing. Enjoy. Hi, everybody. Today, we have a special double episode all devoted to Judy Blum, who I am beyond honored to have interviewed twice, albeit briefly, in four days, even though my whole life it has been my dream to interview her. The first episode is this one, and it is about the movie Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret. Of course, this was one of my absolute favorite books growing up, like probably all of yours. And well, shouldn't assume that. But anyway, was one of mine. And Judy Blum has been just top of my list forever. And I was asked to watch the movie early. And then I got to attend this very fancy Zoom press junket, which I'd never really done before, where alongside a couple other journalists, who were all from sort of mom related outlets, we got to interview two different groups of amazing people. The first was Judy Blum with Kelly Freeman Craig, and after that, Rachel McAdams with Abby Ryder Fortson, the stars of the movie, which was insane. So Judy Blum, for those of you who aren't familiar with her work, has written 29 books, which have sold more than 90,000,000 copies in 39 languages. She has been a touchstone for countless young readers, many of whom have been inspired as grown ups to write their own books. She has won the NCAC honor for her courageous defense about free speech. She was awarded the National Book Foundation Medal for Distinguished Contribution to American Letters in 2004 and the Library of Congress's Living Legends Award in 2000. And she received the 2017 Eby White Award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters. And actually, there are like a bunch more awards. She's just amazing, and she has written so many books, which I am sure you have read, maybe you didn't even know, The Pain and the Great One, Freckle Juice, Soupy Saturdays, Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing, otherwise known as Sheila the Great, Super Fudge, Blubber, Tiger Eyes, Forever, Deeny, Wifey, Smart Women, Summer Sisters, and In the Unlikely Event for Grown Ups. Kelly Freeman Craig is the screenwriter and also adapted the book. She is wonderful and amazing, and this is a great, huge project for her, she's just awesome. After that, we had our second little junket, which was with Rachel McAdams, who is the star of The Notebook and many other movies, major movie star, and the new debut talent Abby Ryder Fortzen, who stars as Margaret. I hope you will enjoy this episode. It was beyond exciting for me, and I hope it is for you too. We're going to start today with Karen Cicero,

[6:21]Judy Blume: Oh, dear. Are you directing that at me? Yes, I'm feeling thank you. You know what makes a writer a reader? So the best thing that you can do is read, read, read, because that's how you learn. Nobody can teach you to write, you know, it's deep inside, it comes from inside you. And if you need to write, you will, because otherwise, why bother? I'm not talking school, I'm talking, you know, to become a writer.

[7:17]Judy Blume: There will never be another experience like this one with Kelly. Never, never, never. It's just the experience of a lifetime. Watching it the first time, well, I guess, did I see a draft first? Yeah. Probably did see a draft first. Yeah. Like a slightly longer version and then you're tweaking and Because we were it was Because I was, you know, watching things, I was there sometimes in person. So I it it wasn't like a complete shock to me. It was wonderful and moving and, you know, I watched it with my husband. It made him cry. It made us laugh. It's the most wonderful movie. I love it. Next,

[8:08]Zibby Owens: Hi. Thank you both so much. I loved this movie. This might be my favorite movie of all time. I cried 20 different at 20 different points. I was also a Jewish girl growing up with the same issues. Oh my gosh. I was it was amazing. Oh, that was so great. Like, seriously. I and I was crying thinking, you know, you don't see some of these scenes in movies, even the temple scenes and all that. So it was really poignant on so many levels. I'm wondering what your favorite parts are, both of you.

[8:34]Judy Blume: You go first. Oh gosh, I

[8:37]Kelly Fremon Craig: absolutely love Margaret's first kiss in the closet. There's something about that scene that just my heart pounds with her every single time. And that actually was both of those kids' first kiss. We watched it, it's on screen. Yeah, so that's I always remember when they're asked, Where was your first case? It's like you can see it. You read the DVD? Yeah. Exactly.

[9:06]Judy Blume: What is my favorite? My favorite? There's so many of them. I mean there's a moment that I'm not going to tell you because it's a spoiler, but it makes me burst out laughing every single time. It's like now I know it's coming, I know it's coming, I'm not going to laugh and I cannot control myself. And that's a moment between Margaret and Nancy when they're just getting to know each other. I won't say any more about that. But it's so poignant. Margaret with grandma, I mean there's you know, the vulnerabilities, the humor, it's just it's real life, and I love it. I look at it as something different, you know, not something that I wrote, but something that I'm watching that I'm just loving. Can I'm removed from it that way. Thank

[10:42]Judy Blume: And we went inside and there was nothing. There was no display. There were no Oh, your your books are all over there. Beautiful pictures of you. Yeah. So I can't wait to see it again. I'll send you pictures, Judy. I'll send you I've seen pictures.

[11:47]Judy Blume: You know, I don't know that anybody ever said anything to me about it. It was so, so surreal. Kelly and I have talked about this, you know, how different it was It was like, Oh, she thinks she can write books now. You know, it's I didn't feel any support, and that's sad. I'm still very friendly with someone from that cul de sac, so I take her out of this. Felt I alone. I felt so alone. And for Kelly, it's a different generation. Lots of women are working. Most women are working. Yeah.

[12:33]Kelly Fremon Craig: But still a really hard balance. I find I'm constantly dealing with crushing maternal guilt because I work a lot and I love my work, but sometimes that means it takes me away from my kid. I'm trying to find the balance between those things has been tough. They sometimes feel at odds.

[13:01]Judy Blume: But now you guys are out there to help others who are going through it.

[13:40]Kelly Fremon Craig: Kelly? Yeah, never. Not even for a half a second did we think about modernizing it. And not even for half a second would I have

[13:49]Judy Blume: let them make this. That was the one thing I knew before I met them. If they said, No, we have to modernize it, I would have had to say no. Yeah, yeah, no. I think part of it is

[14:03]Kelly Fremon Craig: I'm such a fan of the book. I felt like I wanted to make the most faithful adaptation that I could. But also I think that there's something about when you're a girl this age now watching somebody fifty years ago go through the same thing that you're going through today, there's something reassuring about that. Knowing that there's this long lineage and we've all been through it and everybody going forward will go through it and there's something connecting about that. -Connected.

[14:34]Judy Blume: I've always said that. -Yes. -Connects the generations. -I agree. Thank you. I just want to tell you that today I would say girls are reading it younger, starting at nine, probably more than 12, which is fine.

[15:07]Abby Ryder Fortson: What

[15:09]Kelly Fremon Craig: do you think?

[15:12]Judy Blume: You know, I don't know. I mean, it's probably harder today because of social media. That's what I hear anyway. Every generation has a hard time. Yes. We all have our own hard times. But to me, I think that adds

[15:36]Kelly Fremon Craig: something to it to make it harder. Yeah, I completely agree. It adds a different pressure. I don't think it's healthy to be able to see everyone else's life in front of you all the time and be able to I think it makes you compare yourself far more than you would if you weren't seeing those images thrust at you all day long every day. And it's not all true. And it's not all true. Yes, course, we all put our best foot forward. We

[16:09]Judy Blume: did that in the 70s and the 50s Some and of it is timeless that way. I mean, how you look at yourself. We certainly compared ourselves to our friends then. Know, yeah, tough. Growing up is tough. Yeah. Thank you.

[16:50]Kelly Fremon Craig: Why didn't we show period blood? Why didn't we show it? Oh, that's did we show? No. No. Oh. No. I mean, That's interesting. Yeah. I've never That is really interesting. I've never been asked that. Well, because it was more about where she was emotionally, how she felt about it than the actual specific. Yeah.

[17:15]Judy Blume: And also the actual specifics of it is different for everyone. That's right.

[17:23]Kelly Fremon Craig: If you showed it one way, it might be like, Oh, mine doesn't look like that. Yeah. And

[17:28]Judy Blume: and we're not Carrie.

[17:30]Kelly Fremon Craig: That's right. Yes. Yeah.

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[20:22]Zibby Owens: I loved the scene where Margaret gets her first bra, and it brought me back to, you know, hiding between all of the nightgowns at Bergdorf's, and my mother put me through the same thing. I was wondering if you could share your own experiences of getting your first bras.

[20:36]Judy Blume: Oh, I got my first bra. I think I was in seventh grade. Now, this is what I think. I was in seventh grade and it was Bar Mitzvah year, and so there were a million big parties, and that's when I got my first bra. But I also remember something that was like a grow bra. You know, I don't know what it really was, and I do remember the gym teacher measuring us for our leotards in the dance troupe and she said just what that woman says to Oh, 28, dear. Even a Double A. Yes.

[21:27]Kelly Fremon Craig: What about you? I was a really late bloomer, which is part of why I related to the book so much because I was praying to God for a decent pair of boobs to finally come in. So I wore what you're talking about, like a training bra, like a- Training bra. Yeah, training bra, like a sports bra almost. It was like a fake bra. Then when I was 14, it was finally like, Okay, maybe there's barely enough to go actually get a bra. And at that time, this was in the 90s. I don't know if you guys remember this, but there was this big thing where the Wonder Bra came to choose Oh my. Yes. And it was a thing where a plane landed and these models from Europe got off the plane with their bras. And it was like, this is gonna give you the chest you want. And so I went with my best friend to go get the Wonder Bra. Oh, yes.

[22:25]Judy Blume: Wonder Bra.

[22:26]Kelly Fremon Craig: Exactly. Right? Oh yeah. Because it went Oh yeah. It was that much padding. So it was completely false advertising. Yeah, and then I remember being embarrassed at school because I was like, Do people know this is just a Wonder bra?

[22:44]Judy Blume: But what's funny is in the seventies of course, we all took off our bras. Nobody wore a bra that I knew anyway, I was an adult woman with kids, but that was bra burning time. So I wonder about kids coming of age in the 70s. Well, Margaret is in that. Course, that's just 1970.

[23:12]Kelly Fremon Craig: But interestingly, we had Rachel not wear a bra for most of the movie because of that. Anne Roth, our costume designer was the one who talked about that and

[23:27]Judy Blume: encouraged that choice. Yep. That's amazing. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. Just a little. Now I know a secret. Yeah.

[23:35]Zibby Owens: That's true. Thank you.

[23:43]Judy Blume: Thank you Thank so That was fun. Thank you.

[23:47]Zibby Owens: Thanks.

[24:18]Zibby Owens: Hi, Abby and Rachel. I am Zibby Owens from the podcast Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I That's a good title.

[24:28]Zibby Owens: Obsessed with this movie. I cried a million times. I loved it more than anything. I loved the book, but the movie oh my gosh, you guys did an amazing job, and I am just so honored to talk to you about it. Having just watched it, it's like a dream come true. Rachel, I know you were in Mean Girls, and there's a lot of mean girl themes and friendship and the complexity of girls and women's friendship in the story. I was just wondering if the two of you could share the meanest thing someone ever did to you as a child. Do

[24:54]Abby Ryder Fortson: we have to go back there? Their therapist goes back? Yeah. The aftermath?

[25:02]Judy Blume: Boy. Meanest thing.

[25:04]Abby Ryder Fortson: I mean, I've had a I've had a couple friends skip out on me, but

[25:09]Rachel McAdams: I I don't think I've had Like being stood up Yeah. For a friend date. No.

[25:14]Abby Ryder Fortson: No. Just like completely just going. Just

[25:17]Rachel McAdams: like ghosted. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty mean. I

[25:21]Abby Ryder Fortson: mean, I don't know. That's pretty mean. Yeah. Yeah. I've had that too. Yeah. That's probably Fifth grade is a weird time. It's weird. Everyone goes nuts.

[25:29]Rachel McAdams: Is it like a lot of shifting? Lot of shifting. Yeah. The hierarchy, the animal kingdom Yeah. Starts to

[25:36]Abby Ryder Fortson: Well, that's a Mean Girls theme right there. Right. You know? It's probably where I got that from. Yep. Thank

[25:43]Judy Blume: you.

[26:45]Rachel McAdams: Thank you very much. I'm glad it lives rent free in your brain. That's really lovely. It was a very organic moment in the shoot, but the photographer was really interested in women. She was doing a study on just women in general and the pressure to be, Don't be too fat, don't be too thin, don't be too this, don't be too that, don't be more or less, just the constant like, why is there so much emphasis on what I am or what I'm not? Then out of that came, I have to pump and we're running behind and why don't we just lean into this very real moment we're having right now where I'm wearing a Versace bra and I'm figuring out how the tubing can interact with that bra. I was into it because I feel like it's hidden for some reason. It's this totally natural thing. It's how you keep your child alive if that's the way you're doing it and not going with formula or something else. It's still like I remember having moments when I first started where I was like, Is it okay to do this in public? Just surprising myself that was still having these thoughts of, is there shame? I like, I'm feeling some shame and what is that all about? I felt really good in that photo shoot. I felt beautiful. I felt confident and I felt like I was a mom out there working, and yet I'm still a mom. You know? Like, it's it can all happen at once. And to be on a set that was really embracing of that and anyway, it it came about very naturally,

[28:42]Rachel McAdams: Montrag, so thank you for that. Thank you. Appreciate that. Thank you for all you do for moms.

[29:33]Abby Ryder Fortson: God. I don't know. I was obsessed with the Studio Ghibli movies growing up. I was we watched all I of them don't know if I had a movie that really shaped me. I was more of a reader myself. Was I was in the library constantly. But gosh.

[29:51]Rachel McAdams: I don't know. What about you? It's tough, isn't it? There's a lot of feel like you're so influenced by film and or I was at that time. I watched a lot of stuff. I mean, Anne of Green Gables is a Oh, that's good one. Beloved character, and I'd liked to imagine I was her despite not being in the right time period or looking anything like her or anything at all. But but there's a little Anne inside of all of us. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So that was that was and I watched the Canadian nineteen eighties series, Anne of Green Gables about a billion times. And my dad always watched it with me, and he always cried when Matthew died. Oh, god. Like, Definitely always was gonna I'm looking over and he's like, woah. That was good one. Favorite. Yeah. You've read all that. Think Oh, yeah. Definitely.

[30:36]Abby Ryder Fortson: Loved it. Loved it too. Cool. Thank you, guys. Yeah. Thank you. Question.

[30:42]Zibby Owens: Yes. If you're up next. Thank you. Okay. What's something that went wrong during filming that we might not know about or that made you laugh hysterically on the set or something that is behind the scenes?

[30:54]Abby Ryder Fortson: So there was this neighborhood cat who was really obsessed with all of us. And one day, when we were shooting, he came around. His name was Simba. He looked like a little mini lion until his owner shaved off all of his fur and then turned him into a plucked chicken. Chicken. But he just sat down one day, plopped himself right in front of the camera, and would not move. So we have about five minutes of behind the scenes footage of this cat just sitting there at us all just going, buddy, come on. We gotta shoot. Yeah. No one wanted to go pick him up? No one wanted to go pick him up because he was just so cute. He did become, like, the set mascot. He was our little set mascot. Yeah. So sweet. Yeah. He was he was sweet. He was so fluffy

[31:39]Rachel McAdams: too. So fluffy for for a time. Yeah. Yeah. For a time. It was hot. Yeah. Maybe it was really trying to do him a favor. It was Yeah. It was like Charlotte in Yeah. We were shooting in North Carolina,

[31:50]Abby Ryder Fortson: so it was it was hot Charlotte weather. Yeah. We're super.

[31:56]Zibby Owens: What about you, Rachel? Same thing? Anything funny? Remember if there's anything that, like, went

[32:03]Rachel McAdams: off the rails.

[32:05]Abby Ryder Fortson: I remember I broke a door once. You did? Yeah. Like, slamming it or Snap the door handle right off from slamming it. So am I angry? Yeah. Like, in a scene? Yeah. In a scene. In a scene, I wouldn't do that on I'm sick of this job. No. It was in a scene. It was in a scene, but I just slammed it too hard, I guess. Yeah.

[32:26]Rachel McAdams: Stop the door, and ran off. Oh, no. Things happen. They're like, we're gonna have to take a quick break. Yeah. Yeah. They fixed it, though. Yeah. I can't remember anything that it was a pretty smooth shoot, all things considered.

[33:31]Abby Ryder Fortson: I think it's super important to have a community of support. And I know that tons of people have supported my mom and me and everyone, and it's really important to have a community. And I think you can always look to family members or friends for help, and it's important to know that you can ask them. And it's important to have people that you can ask for help if you need it because sometimes you do get overwhelmed and you have so many things going on. And, I I mean, I'm lucky that I have someone in my life who I can I can ask and I can call at 4AM and be like, hey? What do you think about this this this outfit or whatever? But, yeah, I think it's always important to have your community and support and to be able to ask for help or outsource support,

[34:19]Rachel McAdams: if you need it. Are you often trying to close-up for you? No. You can always

[34:24]Abby Ryder Fortson: just have random thoughts going through my head. I wake up and I'm like, oh my god. Wait. What what was I saying earlier? Right. It's a good friend. Yeah. Definitely.

[34:34]Rachel McAdams: I kinda wish there were, like, little chefs for babies that could come come around, like, especially when babies are picturing that. Right? I know. I know. I don't know why they have to be little as well. Oh, a tiny little baby chef would be cute. A tiny little baby chef, yes, who would just help babies diversify their palates. I loved with my firstborn the whole baby led weaning and experimenting with food and handing him a giant carrot or a big chunk of broccoli. I was really into just his experience with food and introducing new things. But the second one comes around and it's like You're a little tired. Baby pouches, which have come a long way too. But I feel like some experiential baby food person would be nice.

[35:31]Abby Ryder Fortson: You so on the list. Yes.

[36:21]Rachel McAdams: Very much so. I feel like I am always dancing between the two. It is hard to do both at once, for sure. To your point, can have it all but not all at once. It's the taking off one hat and putting on another. It can make you feel a little discombobulated, it also helps me appreciate the one when I'm in it. I think my job just lends itself to this, that it's full on and I do find those times difficult in terms of getting enough time with my family. But there are these short spurts of really intense work and creativity. Then I get a lot of time with my children, which is great. I know that's a really unique scenario that I feel very fortunate to be in. I know that's not probably the common scenario. I know it's tricky, whatever it is, but I do think we're better moms when we are self actualized to a point. Think the idea that you can always be doing what you're passionate about and always connected with yourself is just no one has that. Even people who don't have children, you know, that's just, one of the life's great adventures to try and figure out and you'll never totally get there. So this idea that you can be satisfied fully is crazy, but but yeah, I do think it's a dance. I love that you can do it all, but not all at once. That's

[38:00]Rachel McAdams: Thanks. You too. Thank you. You so much.

[38:16]Zibby Owens: and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this intro and outro music.