Emily St. John Mandel, SEA OF TRANQUILITY
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[1:03]Emily St. John Mandel is the author of Sea of Tranquility, a novel, which is now available
[1:09]in paperback.
[1:10]Her five previous novels include The Glass Hotel, which has been translated into 25 languages
[1:16]and station 11, which was a finalist for a national book award and the Penn Faulkner Award
[1:22]for Fiction and was the basis of a limited series on HBO Max.
[1:26]It has been translated into 37 languages.
[1:29]She lives in New York City and Los Angeles.
[1:31]Welcome, Emily.
[1:32]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:33]On mom's, don't have time to read books to discuss Sea of Tranquility, New York Times
[1:38]Bestseller, now in paperback.
[1:40]And all of your work.
[1:41]So exciting.
[1:42]Well, thank you so much.
[1:44]It's a pleasure to be on your show.
[1:46]Thanks.
[1:47]Tell listeners a little bit for those who haven't read your latest book.
[1:51]Tell them what they can expect to find and how all of your books are linked and sort of
[1:56]a piece.
[1:57]Sure, absolutely.
[1:59]So all of my books stand completely alone.
[2:01]You definitely don't have to have read one to understand another.
[2:05]And you could read them in any order.
[2:07]But I do like to connect books with characters who appear in more than one, mostly because
[2:12]it's fun, to be honest.
[2:14]You know, it's like you sometimes you just become attached to a particular character.
[2:19]And then it's kind of interesting to bring them back in a subsequent work.
[2:22]And maybe you just get a slightly different view of their lives.
[2:26]So with Station 11, Miranda was a major character.
[2:30]And in that book, we knew her as a graphic novelist.
[2:33]We know that she's a shipping executive, but we never see that side of her life.
[2:37]But that side of her life was interesting to me.
[2:39]So that's a big part of why I brought her back in the glass hotel where we know her
[2:43]as a shipping executive, but not a graphic artist.
[2:46]So yeah, lots of character overlap and see of Tranquility.
[2:53]It's such a reasonable question.
[2:54]Like asking me to summarize the book.
[2:56]It is so hard.
[2:57]I've been struggling with this for like two years now.
[2:59]I'm sorry.
[2:59]I shouldn't.
[3:00]No, no, no, it's absolutely.
[3:02]No, it's just like it's kind of a strange book because I wrote it in 2020 in New York
[3:08]City.
[3:09]It's really the truth of matter.
[3:10]OK.
[3:11]If the book is a little weird, it was because we were all a little weird.
[3:15]So yeah, you know, it is a book about a time traveling detective who is investigating
[3:20]an anomaly, which seems to point to the idea that all of our world is a simulation.
[3:27]It's also a historical fiction.
[3:28]We begin in 1912 on Vancouver Island where a young immigrant from London sees something
[3:34]in the woods that he absolutely cannot explain.
[3:37]And we follow that strange anomaly through time.
[3:41]Our next stop is February 2020 in New York.
[3:44]The pandemic's about to arrive.
[3:46]And we read encounters and characters from the glass hotel.
[3:50]Then we move forward to a somewhat surreal book tour in the year 2301.
[3:55]And just to get it out of the way, people actually did say those things to me on tour.
[3:59]That's fairly autobiographical.
[4:01]Oh my gosh.
[4:02]And finally, we arrive in 2401 on a moon colony where our time traveling detective actually
[4:08]lives.
[4:09]So it's kind of a wild book.
[4:11]It's about time.
[4:12]It's about our obligations to one another.
[4:15]It's literary fiction.
[4:16]It's also science fiction.
[4:18]Yeah, it was a really fun thing to write during a very not fun year.
[4:24]So when you're going through hard times like the pandemic and all that, and a lot of authors
[4:31]have trouble writing and particularly during that time, were you able to just shut off the world?
[4:37]And can you do that regularly?
[4:39]Is that like a superpower of yours to turn off and then turn inward and create and escape
[4:45]that way?
[4:47]I mean, it's a superpower now, but I feel like I won that superpower in March 2020,
[4:52]where yeah, the first three weeks or so of the pandemic, I did find it really hard to work.
[4:59]Just the the constant ambulance sirens and the dread and I think a lot of your listeners
[5:05]were relate to this.
[5:06]I have a young child and just the terror at that time when we just didn't know that much
[5:11]about COVID-19 and how it might affect children and that terrible feeling like you can't
[5:17]keep your child safe.
[5:18]It keeps you up at night in a kind of circumstance.
[5:21]So yeah, it was very hard to work for a while, but the thing with writing a novel for
[5:27]me is that there's a long period of time before anybody else sees it.
[5:32]When it feels like something akin to a secret garden, it's like this private world,
[5:39]which I can go into and nobody else can come in and I have absolute control.
[5:44]And that was so appealing to me in the early days of the pandemic.
[5:47]So after about three weeks of just kind of trying to write and not writing and reading
[5:52]instead, I started working on sea of tranquility and I feel like it kind of saved my sanity
[5:58]during the year.
[5:59]Wow.
[6:00]You know, it's funny because those three weeks were so long and terrifying, but when I hear
[6:04]you say, oh, I didn't write for three weeks, it's like, okay, well, whatever.
[6:07]That's like vacation.
[6:09]Yeah, it was such a big deal and felt so it felt like three years in this three weeks.
[6:14]Yeah, since you're playing that out, it was a long three weeks.
[6:17]It was a long three weeks.
[6:18]It was not a, yeah, it was not a 2023 three weeks.
[6:21]It was full society collapse.
[6:23]That kind of three weeks.
[6:24]Yes, exactly.
[6:25]Very unique.
[6:26]And how old is your child now?
[6:29]She's seven now.
[6:30]Yeah, she had, she just turned four when the pandemic happened.
[6:34]I have an eight and a nine year old now and also twin two or 15, yeah, my little guy
[6:40]has like his preschool graduation on zoom and you know, early to zoom preschool was
[6:46]bleak.
[6:47]It was so opted out after a week, it was like absolutely not.
[6:50]I did, I did like this Instagram live series with authors, like my own way of escaping
[6:55]the pandemic, by the way, like just like, this is what I'm going to do.
[6:58]And my husband was helping my little guy who I guess was, yeah, I mean, he was five.
[7:03]And he was on zoom and the teacher asked him a question and my son just like took the
[7:07]laptop and closed it.
[7:09]And like, haven't we all wanted to do that and his own meeting.
[7:13]So it's just like, you know what, I'm just going to opt out of this timeline.
[7:17]So my husband just like sat there laughing.
[7:19]I'm like, what did you do?
[7:20]Did you get him back on zoom?
[7:21]And he's like, no.
[7:22]That was my feeling.
[7:25]Yeah.
[7:26]Yeah, we just skipped the pre k year.
[7:27]It was like, you know what, I'm not making you do this on sale.
[7:30]That's insane.
[7:31]It was a total waste, but I mean, God bless the teachers who tried to, you know, but
[7:36]yeah, it's a possible job.
[7:38]Wait, Emily, explain how you became, like, how you became an author and how like,
[7:44]did you always know and how did this go from being a dream to reality and all of that?
[7:49]Yeah, sure.
[7:50]I took kind of a weird, circuitous route.
[7:54]And if I, you know, maybe one thing I like, I would like people to take away from hearing
[8:00]this is that there's no one route to this.
[8:02]I'm just going to say at the outset, I have zero formal training as a writer.
[8:05]I've never taken a writing workshop or anything like that.
[8:09]The way I came to it is I was homeschooled as a kid.
[8:13]And the, the reason for that is just my parents were kind of hippies and like the sort
[8:17]of counterculture thing to do when I was a little kid was homeschool your children.
[8:22]So they tried that as an experiment for kindergarten.
[8:24]The experiment somehow extended until the 10th grade.
[8:28]And there was a period of time when I was about eight or nine years old when one of the
[8:33]requirements of the curriculum that my mom came up with was that I had to write something
[8:37]every day.
[8:38]And I'm so grateful for that because it got me into the habit of writing at a really early
[8:43]age.
[8:44]And it was just something that I really loved.
[8:47]So I just kept doing it, even when I didn't have to anymore.
[8:49]I remember when I was like 10 or 11 working every day on this epic fantasy novel on
[8:55]scrap paper, you know, I was just, yeah, I was just obsessed with telling that story.
[9:01]And it was something that, that I just really, really love to do is so yeah, I just kept
[9:06]going with it.
[9:08]My first dream was to be a dancer.
[9:10]I started studying ballet when I was six and by the time I was 13 or 14, I was dancing six
[9:16]days a week.
[9:17]I went to school for dance, a conservatory program in Toronto for contemporary dance.
[9:23]And I just kind of fell out of love with it.
[9:26]There was a strange moment when I was I think 21 when I just kind of realized, you know
[9:33]what, I don't think I even like this anymore.
[9:35]Like this, this isn't fun.
[9:36]It's a chore, not a joy.
[9:38]And that was a little scary because on the one hand, I had no high school diploma because
[9:44]I had a quite bother to finish 12 grade math.
[9:47]On the other hand, I had a mountain student loan to add, which is like a really weird
[9:50]combination.
[9:52]You know, I'd gone to this conservatory program where the past you get in was an audition.
[9:57]So, you know, I never occurred to me to go back to.
[10:00]college. I just felt like financially that door was closed. And I just had to figure out what
[10:06]to do next. So I thought, well, maybe I could take the writing more seriously. You know,
[10:11]I've been writing as a hobby for my entire life for, that's what it felt like to me. So I just
[10:16]started to take it more seriously and tried to do it every day and started working on what
[10:21]eventually became my first novel last night in Montreal. Well, your parents must take a lot of credit
[10:27]for this then. I mean, it was your mom assignments. It really is. I mean, I hope my mom takes
[10:32]the credit. Right? Every dedicationally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when you started writing with no training,
[10:40]did you ever doubt yourself? Or did you feel good about it? Like, what was that? What was that like?
[10:46]Well, I doubt myself with every book. Like, yeah, the first book into particular, it took
[10:51]four years to write last night in Montreal. And part because I wasn't taking myself seriously enough.
[10:57]I would do things like put the book down for two months. Well, it was distracted by
[11:02]my day job, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah, I had enormous doubt. I always, I push and say
[11:09]always, I very often had the feeling like I was way out beyond the limits of my talent and
[11:15]ability. And that I wasn't sure if I could pull this off. And but I found since then is that I
[11:21]always have those moments with every book I write. But once you've written one book, it gets easier
[11:26]because then you know, you can write a book. That was my experience with it.
[11:30]Interesting. I feel like that would come as a surprise to listeners that
[11:35]despite success and acclaim and all of that, that there's still those lingering feelings.
[11:41]Maybe yeah, but maybe that's how we should be writing. You know, like, I have had the thought that
[11:48]you know, although a given process might not be particularly comfortable,
[11:53]I kind of like the idea that we should be pushing ourselves that maybe the feeling of being
[11:58]at the edge of your talent want an ability that maybe that's not a bad place to be artistically.
[12:02]Very true. Wow. And then in books like Sea of Tranquility,
[12:06]we referenced that some of it took place a long time ago and you it's very visual and all the
[12:12]details and the boat and walking through the, you know, the scenery that you have in Canada and
[12:18]all of the specifics feel very real. I mean, you said a scene, you said all the trappings of
[12:27]imagination, but it's rooted in reality at least place and time and all of that. So in terms
[12:33]of how much research that you do that goes into books, like where does that come from and
[12:37]how do you know when to cut it off and how do you decide even where to take your characters?
[12:41]Yeah, I feel like with research, it's kind of a balancing act because on the one hand,
[12:48]you don't want pages and pages of exposition about, you know, the mechanics of, I don't know,
[12:54]how do you make buttons in the 1880s or like whatever thing is relevant to what you're writing,
[12:58]especially with historical fiction. On the other hand, you really want to get it right. So
[13:03]yeah, so the historical fiction sections of Sea of Tranquility set in 1912 and then 1918.
[13:10]Those were the sections that took the most research. I based that main character in that time period,
[13:16]Edwin, on a great grandfather of mine, but very loosely based on him. So, you know, I was making
[13:22]up almost everything and spent a lot of time researching things like the streetcar line and Halifax
[13:29]in 1912 just to try to make it make sense, to try to at least get to a standard where
[13:35]nobody was going to trip over it. Like, wait, the streetcar line didn't go that far east and
[13:39]then on 1912, what are you talking about? It's the moment you want to avoid. So, yeah, historical
[13:45]fiction takes the most research, the contemporary world. I feel like it really depends on what
[13:50]you're writing. And, you know, I think like a lot of people, I just have a lot of interests.
[13:56]So sometimes I'll read an article in the New Yorker or the Atlantic or whatever, you know,
[14:01]some fascinating long-form thing. And it won't feel at the time like research. It'll just feel
[14:06]like an interesting thing that I'm reading about. But then I'll find myself thinking about it and
[14:11]end up working it into a book. So, yeah, some of the research is kind of accidental in that way.
[14:16]But once you're committed to one of those things appearing in a book, like container shipping,
[14:23]for example, then you do have to go back and make sure you know what you're talking about.
[14:28]So, yeah. And you know, I have to say, like, there is something very liberating about science
[14:34]fiction from a research perspective because you really can just make it up. And that's pretty fun.
[14:40]What would you like the world to look like in 2040 or wherever you go, however fast people
[14:47]you want to go? Like, what would you change? And how do you balance any semblance of reality
[14:56]with fast-forwarding of time? What would I like the world to look like? I would like us to be
[15:02]less than denial about the inevitability of pandemics and more able to face reality when they happen.
[15:07]That would be nice. It would be nice if we'd started to think about how to get off this planet,
[15:13]where, you know, on the one hand, this is our planet. And we have to make it work. On the other hand,
[15:18]as they point out and see if tranquility no star burns forever. You know, so it would be a good
[15:23]idea for the continuation of the species to start to consider outward moves. I don't know. I just,
[15:30]I hope the world's less chaotic. I don't know that it will be. And which of these characters,
[15:36]if any, are you can taking with you on your next book? And what is your next book?
[15:43]My next book, I'm only about halfway through the first draft. So even I don't really know what
[15:47]the plot is. But what I can tell you about it is that the protagonist in the next book is the
[15:53]villain from my second book, The Singer's Gun. And I have to say it's been really fun to go back
[16:00]and think about that character again, who I hadn't thought about in years. And, you know,
[16:04]assuming based on the events of The Singer's Gun that probably she's done significant
[16:08]prison time and what does that do to her character? So yeah, that's been a fun project.
[16:13]Wow. I love this idea of just continuation of characters and having somebody pop into another
[16:20]book. And I always used to love since it comes and like the Jefferson's would end up. And
[16:26]well, you grew up in Canada, right? Yeah. Anyway, like shows would cross on NBC and anyway,
[16:33]nevermind. But I love that. I love that. I remember those days when like Angel would show up and
[16:37]Buffy the Vampire Slayer, like I was there for that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I have a different
[16:41]era, I guess. But when you're writing a book, do you read other books in the genre? Do you stop
[16:47]reading? Like, what are you reading now? And how do you really approach your time when you're
[16:52]when you're deep in a book? Like you're halfway through your first draft. So what does that look like?
[16:55]You're still doing some publicity? Like, how do you manage your time and your focus?
[17:00]It's such a weird time. I'm doing publicity for Sea of Tranquility. And I'm also the one who
[17:06]writers around. It's not an adaptation for one of my works. It's a totally different show.
[17:12]Yeah. So I'm working in TV and I'm doing this promotional stuff and trying to get other projects
[17:17]off the ground and writing a new book. Can I have a seven-year-old? So like, it's busy. It's really
[17:23]where I'm going with this. Yeah. I just try to, in moments like this, where there's just a lot
[17:28]going on, you know, I'm like everybody. I'm just trying to do all the important things. It's like
[17:33]triage all day. You know, you're not quite catch up by bedtime. You try again the next day. In
[17:38]comma times, when I'm not traveling quite so much and not doing promotional work for a new book,
[17:44]then it is a little bit more structured and stable. You know, I'll drop my kid off at school.
[17:49]I'll work for a while. She's at her dad's place 50% of the time. So often I do have more time than I
[17:54]used to. Yeah. It's funny. I don't know about my working life is that different from most other
[18:01]parents. You know, that constant juggling act. I know. I feel like I could not get
[18:06]not that I'm recommending divorce, but I don't think I could get anything that I get done
[18:10]if I didn't have the time when the kids go to their chest. Yeah. There is a silver lining,
[18:15]which we don't talk about enough, but I'm happy. Yeah. It helps. I know the other day,
[18:21]they were here in spring break. I was just like, I just, if this was like this forever,
[18:25]I wouldn't even be able to finish reading this one book. I couldn't even get to one book the whole
[18:28]week. So anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's like you miss them. You miss them desperately
[18:33]when they're not with you. But you are able to get work done. So there's, yeah, there's something to
[18:39]them. It's true. It was a lot harder. I feel like I've gotten used to the time when I'm not with
[18:44]them. But in the beginning, it was excruciating. I don't know if that, yeah. Yeah. It's difficult.
[18:50]Yeah. And so tell me about the adaptations. What's going on with that?
[18:54]Well, that's a great question. So let me back up a little bit. So the station 11 adaptation
[19:01]came out is December 2021 on HBO Max. Yeah. I didn't. Yeah. I wrote the source novel, obviously,
[19:08]but I didn't have any input and descript. So I never visited the set because of COVID. So I wasn't
[19:14]particularly involved in the day to day of that project. But I love that project. I was so impressed
[19:20]by that adaptation. So then I had the opportunity a little over a year ago to work on adaptations
[19:26]of the glass hotel and sea of tranquility with that same creative team, which was hugely exciting
[19:32]to me. So me and Patrick Somerville, the creator of the TV series and other station 11 writers,
[19:40]we had, I think it was a 10 week mini room, which for anybody who's not the TV industry,
[19:46]that's like a really short writers room. And I think our setup was pretty typical. We had 10 weeks
[19:52]to figure out the arc of the show and write three scripts. And then we pitched it to HBO Max.
[19:58]And it's a real.
[20:00]really unstable time in the entertainment industry.
[20:03]And there's just a lot of kind of high level movement,
[20:07]corporate mergers and acquisitions and consolidation
[20:10]happening.
[20:11]So certain degree of chaos is kind of industry-wide
[20:14]and that has slowed down decisions.
[20:16]So we're still waiting.
[20:17]I'm waiting to find out if HBO Max will greenlight
[20:21]the glass hotel and based on that decision,
[20:24]we'll know what's going on with sea of tranquility.
[20:26]So it's just been this limbo for a while.
[20:29]We should find out in the next couple of weeks.
[20:30]Fingers crossed.
[20:32]Oh, my gosh.
[20:33]Am I at my hands?
[20:33]That's a producer.
[20:34]And I'm like, it's like a miracle when anything gets made.
[20:38]I feel like it feels like it has to align the timing,
[20:42]the cast, the crew.
[20:43]It's just like amazing.
[20:45]I mean, how could they not just jump on the book?
[20:48]Do you know what I'm thinking?
[20:49]I wouldn't think it.
[20:50]It's like a no-brainer.
[20:52]Yeah.
[20:52]If you know anybody at HBO Max,
[20:54]it's still pretty good for the call.
[20:57]I don't, but I would like to.
[21:00]I'm kidding.
[21:01]Well, that's exciting.
[21:02]And what was it like in watching your hard work
[21:06]and your imagination be on the screen the first time?
[21:10]It was extraordinary.
[21:11]Honestly, I got to see almost finished cuts of the episodes
[21:18]a few weeks before the premiere aired.
[21:22]And so you know, I wasn't that far ahead of anybody else.
[21:26]I didn't see the final final version
[21:29]with the VFX added and everything
[21:31]until they were airing on HBO Max.
[21:34]It was the most incredible time.
[21:36]Like for every week, getting to sit down
[21:39]and watch another two episodes of Station 11.
[21:42]I really admired the way the adaptation stayed true
[21:47]to the spirit of the book, even though the plot
[21:49]was completely different.
[21:50]I really appreciated that.
[21:52]I felt like the project wasn't really good hands.
[21:55]And they respected the source material.
[21:57]Yeah, and I love what they did with it.
[21:59]I really liked their changes.
[22:00]So yeah, it was just, it was really pretty incredible.
[22:04]And when you're working on a book with your editors
[22:08]and all of that, like how do you feel when edits come back in?
[22:12]Like what is the, what is the editing process like?
[22:14]Like what is the least favorite part,
[22:16]the easiest part for you?
[22:18]Cover design time.
[22:19]Like what is that whole publication thing?
[22:22]Highlights, low lights, all of that, if you can come.
[22:25]Yeah, like it definitely gets easier with time.
[22:28]You definitely get a thicker skin by your sixth novel
[22:31]when you head with your first.
[22:34]My least favorite part of the editorial process
[22:36]is the initial notes where I have three editors.
[22:39]It's pretty intense.
[22:41]One inch for the US, UK, and Canada.
[22:43]So that is an epic editorial email.
[22:46]I remember printing out the first one for the glass hotel
[22:49]and it was nine pages, so I just had like nine pages
[22:53]by the way in like nine point text.
[22:55]So yeah, just like all these pages.
[22:57]Yeah, exactly, a single space.
[23:00]It was pretty epic.
[23:01]In terms of how rough it is, it depends on the book.
[23:04]Sea of train quality is a relatively short novel.
[23:07]I knew what the structure of the book was gonna be going in.
[23:10]It's kind of an homage to David Mitchell's novel Cloud Atlas
[23:13]and that kind of symmetrical march
[23:16]forward in the backward in time.
[23:18]The glass hotel, the book that preceded it,
[23:20]took me five years to write.
[23:22]It was really, really difficult to figure out
[23:25]what that book was.
[23:26]I feel like I spent a lot of time trying to find the book.
[23:29]Like, is this a ghost story?
[23:31]Is it a book about a white color crime?
[23:33]All of the above?
[23:34]It was just, it was hard to find it.
[23:37]And what complicated things a little bit
[23:40]is that I sold it as a partial manuscript,
[23:43]which I don't know if I'd do that again.
[23:45]And the only reason I did it was because I think Trump
[23:48]had recently been elected and I thought,
[23:50]well, obviously, the economy is about to collapse
[23:52]because that man is chaos.
[23:54]So I was like, I'm just gonna get a book deal
[23:56]and under the wire before it all falls down.
[23:58]So yeah, I sold it as a partial,
[24:01]which meant that my editors had not read
[24:03]even a first draft when they bought it.
[24:05]Those editorial notes were really hard.
[24:08]The messaging was kind of like, we love this.
[24:12]Could you please change the plot, the character,
[24:14]the structure, the language?
[24:16]It's like every book or so.
[24:18]Yeah, I may have spent a couple of days
[24:20]crying in my office.
[24:21]So I did it and got to work and I rewrote the book.
[24:25]And then I did that again two times.
[24:27]And so sometimes it is really hard.
[24:30]But I have brilliant editors
[24:34]and there's never been a time
[24:36]where I felt like they were wrong.
[24:39]They weigh in, they always have these
[24:41]incredibly intelligent suggestions
[24:43]and we're all in the same team.
[24:44]We're all trying to make the book better.
[24:47]So yeah, I've been really fortunate in that sense.
[24:50]I just haven't had that much friction
[24:53]in the editing process
[24:54]because there might be an initial shock of, oh my God,
[24:57]you want me to do what?
[24:59]But then a day or two later,
[25:00]I always find myself coming back to,
[25:02]you know what, she's actually right.
[25:04]I actually do need to do that
[25:05]to make it a better book.
[25:08]I love that.
[25:09]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[25:12]Yeah, I do.
[25:14]This first piece of advice is actually not original.
[25:16]It's something I heard Neil Gaiman say.
[25:18]And he's a writer, I really respect.
[25:21]And I think this advice is solid.
[25:23]His advice is finish what you start.
[25:26]And what I think about that,
[25:27]I think what he might have been getting at
[25:29]is it's really easy to start something.
[25:32]You know, you can write a dazzling first sentence.
[25:36]But then maybe you get a little bit bored.
[25:38]The plot isn't really work.
[25:39]You're not sure your character's really make sense.
[25:42]So you said it aside, he starts something else.
[25:44]And I think his point was that
[25:46]it's by working through those moments
[25:48]that you become a better writer.
[25:50]So I like to borrow that advice and spread it around.
[25:52]I think also, and this is a little bit more
[25:57]publishing advice than writing advice,
[25:59]which is very different.
[26:00]But I think he shouldn't try to predict the market.
[26:03]Or he shouldn't try to write for the market
[26:05]because what's popular and selling now
[26:08]is not gonna be the same thing
[26:09]that's popular in three years
[26:11]or whenever your novel's done.
[26:13]I think a better approach
[26:15]is to try to make the market.
[26:17]You know, so write the book that you're really passionate about
[26:20]because writing a book is really hard.
[26:22]And if it's boring for you,
[26:24]it's gonna be boring for your readers.
[26:26]So write the thing that interests you
[26:28]and then try to find a home for it.
[26:30]And then I think maybe the last thing I'd say
[26:34]in terms of publishing advice
[26:35]is don't assume that the publishing world is closed to you.
[26:39]I think there's this idea that you have to be
[26:43]from a particular background.
[26:44]Like you have to have gone to the right school
[26:48]or know the right people or go to the right parties.
[26:51]And only then will you gain entree into the publishing world.
[26:55]And I have to say like none of those things were true for me.
[26:58]I literally don't have a high school diploma.
[27:00]So you know, and I knew nobody going in.
[27:03]I think it's easy to forget
[27:04]that the publishing world is full of people
[27:07]whose job is to find a good new work.
[27:10]I love that.
[27:11]So inspiring and amazing.
[27:13]Emily, thank you so much.
[27:15]Thank you for chatting with me today and coming on.
[27:18]Do you have any great books or movies or shows
[27:21]for seven-year-olds or anything I should know?
[27:24]Favorite snacks?
[27:25]Any good tips?
[27:27]Thank you.
[27:28]What?
[27:29]My daughter's been obsessed with the Phoebe
[27:30]and her You're Gonna Car and Graphic Novels.
[27:32]Oh, yeah.
[27:33]They're really fun.
[27:34]So yeah, I would recommend those.
[27:35]Those are fun.
[27:36]We had a famous.
[27:37]Thank you.
[27:38]Okay.
[27:39]All right.
[27:40]Thank you so much for your time.
[27:41]And take care.
[27:42]My pleasure.
[27:43]Thank you very much.
[27:44]Okay. Bye-bye.
[27:46]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[27:48]to Read Books.
[27:49]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[27:51]at Zebioans and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[27:54]Also sign up for my newsletter at Zebioans.com
[27:57]and sign up for my virtual book club
[27:59]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[28:01]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[28:03]at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[28:05]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[28:07]for providing this fantastic intro and outroom music.
[28:10]Thank you so much.
[28:11]Thank you.