Ana Reyes, THE HOUSE IN THE PINES
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30-minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
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[1:03]Anna Reyes is the author of the House of the Pines, a novel.
[1:06]Anna has an MFA from Louisiana State University.
[1:09]Her work has appeared in Bodega, Parenwar, New Delta Review, and elsewhere.
[1:13]She lives in Los Angeles, where she teaches creative writing to older adults at Santa Monica
[1:17]College.
[1:18]The House of the Pines is her first novel, and was a Reese's Book Club pick.
[1:23]Anna recently did an event at Zippy's Bookshop, and if you'd like to see some pictures
[1:26]of that, just go to at Zippy's Bookshop on Instagram.
[1:30]Welcome, Anna.
[1:31]Thank you so much for coming on Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[1:34]Thank you so much for having me.
[1:35]I'm so excited to be here.
[1:36]Uh-oh.
[1:37]I'm so excited you're here too.
[1:39]Start by telling listeners, please, what's your book is it that?
[1:42]The House of the Pines is my debut novel.
[1:45]It's a psychological thriller, and it's about a young woman named Maya who lives in Boston,
[1:51]and she's trying to move on with her life after a difficult past, and she comes across
[1:56]this viral video on YouTube of her ex-boyfriend Frank sitting across to a young woman
[2:03]at a diner who drops dead inexplicably.
[2:06]He never touches her.
[2:07]She just drops dead, and this is chilling.
[2:09]But what makes it even scarier is that this isn't the first time it's happened.
[2:14]Seven years ago, Maya's best friend, Aubrey, was also talking to Frank when she dropped
[2:19]dead.
[2:20]And Maya saw this happen.
[2:21]So she's convinced that he somehow killed both of these women, even though there's no
[2:25]evidence, and he never touched them, and it's not even clear what killed them.
[2:29]There's no weapon.
[2:31]There's no marks on their bodies.
[2:33]So she has to somehow figure out how he did it and prove that he did it, and that entails
[2:39]going back to her hometown in the Berkshires, and more specifically, returning to his
[2:43]house in the Pines, a mysterious house that he built himself out in the woods.
[2:48]Wow.
[2:49]I know in the book, you, and there are all these theories, like, could it be spontaneous
[2:54]deaths syndrome, or something like that, you know, like all these, like, what could it
[2:57]possibly be?
[2:58]They were like in conversation at the same time, and they just dropped dead.
[3:01]So scary.
[3:02]Yeah.
[3:03]Hunting.
[3:04]Don't even want to know about the research of having to do research and all that.
[3:08]I also thought it was so funny, how she's watching the YouTube video, because she's
[3:11]like too distracted to be able to read.
[3:13]And here we are, like, reading the book.
[3:15]Right.
[3:16]Yeah.
[3:17]Yeah.
[3:18]Yeah.
[3:19]She's an insomniac when we meet her.
[3:20]Like, watching videos is probably what you can do, and when you don't have the attention
[3:25]to read a book, totally.
[3:27]You also go into the effects of medication, and how she was medicated early on for one thing
[3:34]that changed into another, and then getting off meds is so difficult.
[3:38]Like talk a little bit about the sort of pharmacological experience she's gone through, and
[3:42]what it did to her, really.
[3:44]So she started off taking this medication to help her sleep, and that was actually based
[3:48]on an experience of my own life that I was dealing with when I started writing the book.
[3:53]And my book, Maya, is buying her colonnopin from a friend.
[3:56]Yeah.
[3:57]My life, I was actually prescribed it by a doctor in Los Angeles.
[4:02]And when I moved out of state, I moved to Louisiana, and I got an doctor who said, you
[4:07]can't be taking this every night.
[4:09]But I'd been taking it for years.
[4:10]My original doctor hadn't told me that I couldn't.
[4:13]You know, he kept refilling my prescription every single month.
[4:17]It didn't warn me at all, actually, that it would be very difficult to quit.
[4:20]So when my new doctor said, cutting you off, I was like, well, okay, I guess that's
[4:27]probably for the best.
[4:28]I don't want to take it for the rest of my life anyway.
[4:30]But I had no idea what I was in store for.
[4:33]So I stopped sleeping completely.
[4:36]I had a lot of anxiety.
[4:38]I had such a, it was just such a difficult, it was really the most difficult thing I'd ever
[4:42]been through.
[4:43]Did you stop cold?
[4:44]Oh my gosh.
[4:45]Okay.
[4:46]I had a cold turkey and the new doctor that I had didn't really seem to think that she
[4:49]was like, yeah, you might have a couple of difficult weeks sleeping.
[4:53]But she was like, this is the best you need to get off it.
[4:55]And I do agree that it was good for me to stop, but I shouldn't have stopped that abruptly.
[5:01]And so I was plunged into this situation where I thought maybe I was going crazy because
[5:05]the new doctor didn't seem to think this was a real phenomenon.
[5:09]My old doctor had said it was a possibility.
[5:11]So I felt like maybe I was losing my mind.
[5:14]Maybe it really was not the medication, but me.
[5:16]And I went through a very difficult time.
[5:18]And at that time, I was also writing my book because it was grad school and I was teaching
[5:25]a class and I was writing my book.
[5:27]And I found myself writing about what I was going through through the lens of my character.
[5:32]And somehow that really helped me deal with it.
[5:33]You know, I think writing is very therapeutic for all of us.
[5:37]But I think especially for me at that time, I was able to have some distance from the
[5:41]the situation because it was happening to Maya, my character, rather than to me.
[5:46]And I was also able to have more compassion for her than I was for myself.
[5:50]So it was, it really helped me immensely through that process.
[5:54]And in addition to that, it turned out to be the perfect dilemma for an unreliable narrator
[5:58]because when you're not sleeping and when you're confused, you think you might be going crazy.
[6:03]It turns out that's also a great, great sort of setup for this mystery where we don't
[6:09]know if she is going crazy.
[6:11]But Frank has done these, these killings that she believes he's committed seems completely
[6:15]impossible.
[6:16]So as a reader, I tried to make it so that we're questioning her along with everyone around
[6:21]her where we're like, how, how could you believe this?
[6:25]Is it you?
[6:26]Are you actually psychotic?
[6:28]So it turned out to be sort of a perfect tool for a thriller writer to be going through
[6:32]that.
[6:33]But at the time, it wasn't fun.
[6:34]It was a complete nightmare, but writing the book really helped me through it and Maya helped
[6:40]me through it.
[6:41]Wow.
[6:42]It's like the ultimate self-talk.
[6:43]I mean, they literally say that in therapy, like, imagine this was a friend of yours who
[6:47]was going through this.
[6:48]Would you be so hard at her and you're like, no, I would be like, oh, are you okay?
[6:51]Not like you're self-oesthetic.
[6:53]Yeah.
[6:54]The ultimate therapeutic payoff, you should really, you know, it's like thank a doctor or
[7:00]something for the massive success in the book and all that.
[7:04]Exactly.
[7:05]Did you read a book called Make Us Side Effects by Brooksium?
[7:08]No.
[7:09]I haven't even heard of it.
[7:10]I remember it came out maybe within the last year and she lives in Las Vegas, but anyway,
[7:16]it's about her experience going off meds.
[7:18]You should just read it.
[7:19]The two of you could like have a nice conversation about it.
[7:21]She's really cool.
[7:22]You can put you in touch or whatever.
[7:23]But I did not even know just how much like almost like pseudo psychosis, not psychosis,
[7:30]but just all of the mental health implications of going off meds and not doing it in a
[7:34]tapered, careful way under medical supervision.
[7:38]And I learned a lot of that from her back and now I feel like I could come to your back
[7:41]like fully in the know about it all.
[7:43]Yeah.
[7:44]This is right.
[7:45]I mean, I really can't.
[7:46]That is a potential side effect and that have people who have just completely had psychotic
[7:50]breaks.
[7:51]Yeah.
[7:52]You know, and especially when the research that I've done as well about this was that when
[7:54]people started to recognize benzodiazepine withdrawal as a natural syndrome, wired to that.
[8:00]There were people having psychotic breaks winding up in hospitals and it took them a while
[8:04]to realize this person's not psychotic.
[8:07]They're going through a very specific syndrome.
[8:09]So it does have psychosis and extreme cases.
[8:13]And then people worry, well, wait, maybe I am psychotic while not on a medicine, right?
[8:19]Which is the which is so then they go back on the medicine and then it's like this whole
[8:23]vicious cycle.
[8:24]It's actually very smart for these pharmaceutical manufacturers, not that they planned
[8:27]it, but I'm just saying it would be a very smart repeat customer.
[8:31]Right.
[8:32]Yes.
[8:33]But anyway, I'll just leave it at that.
[8:36]So how did you know you were a thriller writer?
[8:38]I actually didn't start out writing a thriller.
[8:41]I started out writing a book that I wasn't really sure what genre it fit into, but I grew
[8:46]up reading thrillers.
[8:47]My favorite writers were Christopher Pike and R.L. Stein, all the goosebumps and fear street
[8:52]books were what I read throughout my entire childhood.
[8:55]And then I moved on to Stephen King and so that was always my preferred genre.
[8:59]And to this day, some of my favorite writers are Shirley Jackson, Jillian Flynn.
[9:03]So it felt very natural to move in that direction, but it took actually some goading by
[9:08]my agent who was really supportive of the first draft, but said, you know, I feel like you've
[9:13]written this very creepy story, the list about the house that was always there.
[9:18]But I hadn't really built up to it in a sort of thriller fashion.
[9:23]So it took her sort of encouraging me to try to make it more with thriller.
[9:27]And what that entailed was reading the books that I would be reading anyway, but taking
[9:32]copious notes and noting sort of charting the way that they worked.
[9:37]So, you know, I would know if there was a red herring or I would know when a chapter had
[9:41]a cliffhanger or just the various tools that the writers were all using that are available
[9:48]to anyone, but you really have to identify them in order to, for I had to identify them
[9:52]in order to put them into my own work.
[9:55]So that process, the story didn't change much, but the delivery changed over the course
[10:00]I editing it with the help of my agent.
[10:02]That took almost two years.
[10:04]So that was a real learning curve,
[10:05]but I'm so glad that I did it
[10:07]because I think everything I write from here on out
[10:09]is gonna be a thriller, have some horror elements.
[10:13]And I'm just so glad that I took the time
[10:14]to learn those things
[10:15]because those tools are just invaluable.
[10:18]He should write a little thing about
[10:20]what I learned and how to write a thriller or something.
[10:23]I mean, not like you wanna give away out your secrets,
[10:25]but they're not truly secrets.
[10:27]It's just you've done the work.
[10:28]I don't know.
[10:29]I think they would be a really interesting article.
[10:30]Yeah, for aspiring offers.
[10:32]Absolutely.
[10:33]And I would love to teach a class on it someday
[10:35]when I get back to teaching
[10:36]because it's so much fun.
[10:37]And yeah, those are every one.
[10:39]We have these online zibi classes.
[10:42]You could even just do a one-time workshop on it
[10:44]if you want to.
[10:45]I would love to do it.
[10:45]Oh my gosh.
[10:46]That would be so fun.
[10:49]Okay, I'm gonna put you in touch with
[10:50]our C, who runs our classes.
[10:51]Thank you.
[10:52]Oh my gosh.
[10:53]I would take your class on that.
[10:55]I would love that.
[10:58]So start from when you were little.
[11:00]Like when did you first write?
[11:02]When did you first know you liked it?
[11:04]And when did you get into these Stephen King books?
[11:06]And could you sleep at night?
[11:07]And did you crawl into bed with your parents?
[11:09]A lot of that.
[11:10]I did a lot of crawling into bed with my parents.
[11:12]So I had to really stop me from doing that
[11:15]because that was my default.
[11:17]But I think it started with Earl Stein
[11:19]and the goosebumps books.
[11:21]The writing piece too.
[11:22]The writing piece, yeah.
[11:23]So I started as a major reader.
[11:25]That was sort of the biggest thing.
[11:27]And the first story that I wrote,
[11:28]it was, I was living in Pittsfield, Massachusetts,
[11:30]the setting of my book.
[11:31]And their public library had a children's writing contest.
[11:34]And the winner of the contest,
[11:36]won a gift certificate to a local bookstore.
[11:39]So my first story that I wrote,
[11:41]it wasn't because I wanted to be a writer.
[11:43]It was because I wanted to win more books.
[11:45]So that's actually what got me into writing.
[11:49]And the first story that I wrote,
[11:51]it was also about a creepy house in the woods
[11:54]and a little girl who gets lost in the forest.
[11:57]I think I was inspired not just by the Christopher Pike
[12:00]and Earl Stein books that I was reading,
[12:01]but also by all the fairy tales that I grew up loving.
[12:05]Hanseling Bredall or Little Red Riding Hood
[12:07]where you have children lost in the woods.
[12:09]Those really haunted me,
[12:11]running through the forest and pursued by some kind
[12:14]of creature or monster.
[12:16]So that was sort of the type of thing that I first wrote.
[12:19]But I didn't win the contest and years went by.
[12:23]And I always had that impulse to write.
[12:26]So I would write poems or I would write short stories
[12:29]and they were not very good at first,
[12:31]but I kind of kept at it when the inspiration struck,
[12:35]but I'd never stopped being an avid reader.
[12:38]So years past, after college,
[12:40]I actually got a job being a professional script reader.
[12:43]So I was a getter reader before a professional writer.
[12:46]And that job was really great because I learned
[12:49]so much about story structure from screenplays,
[12:51]which are really sort of the master's structure.
[12:55]And when I laid off from that job,
[12:57]that was when I decided,
[12:59]okay, I really wanna take my writing seriously now.
[13:01]So I'm gonna apply to MFA programs
[13:04]and find one that's fully funded
[13:06]so that that can be, I don't have to work
[13:09]while I'm in the program.
[13:10]And I can just really devote myself to reading and writing.
[13:13]So that's what I did.
[13:14]And I got into the Louisiana State University program,
[13:17]which is three years and fully funded.
[13:19]You just have to teach one class,
[13:20]so you have a ton of time to write.
[13:22]And that's how I wrote my first draft of this book.
[13:26]Oh my gosh.
[13:27]That's like a total dream success story.
[13:30]That's like whatever, you know,
[13:32]go get an MFA, there's your book,
[13:34]get the agent, here you go.
[13:36]And now it's a book club pick.
[13:38]It's like amazing.
[13:39]Yeah, I love you.
[13:40]Wow, it's not luck.
[13:41]It's just great.
[13:42]I mean, it's talent too.
[13:44]I have to say I listened to your book,
[13:46]the narrator, I think her name is Marisol.
[13:48]Anyway, she's been keeping me company lately.
[13:49]And it was phenomenal.
[13:52]Yeah, it was really great.
[13:53]It was really great.
[13:54]I also couldn't figure out how to speed it up
[13:56]on Libre OFM, which is better
[13:58]because I try to like listen as fast
[14:00]as I possibly can all the time,
[14:01]but my auditory processing is not,
[14:03]I don't know how you feel about this.
[14:04]I can read really quickly,
[14:05]but I can't listen half as quickly.
[14:07]So this was like the perfect tempo
[14:09]and I was like so immersed.
[14:10]It was like, so it was great.
[14:13]Yeah, really wonderful.
[14:15]So wait, what was it like knowing your book
[14:18]was like hitting it big?
[14:20]Like what would it that feel like to you after?
[14:22]What was that like?
[14:24]Tell me about it, how you found out in the whole thing?
[14:26]So I first found out from my editor
[14:28]about the Reese's Book Club several months
[14:29]before it came out and she just called me
[14:32]and she said, hey, can you hop on a Zoom
[14:33]with your agent?
[14:34]We're here if you could just hop on.
[14:36]So I had no idea.
[14:37]I didn't know if it was good or bad, right?
[14:39]So I hop on and they're like,
[14:42]you're gonna be the Reese's Book Club pick.
[14:43]And I was just so shocked because, you know,
[14:46]it was my first novel.
[14:48]I was so excited that it was being published by Dutton
[14:51]that I had this incredible editor.
[14:52]So to me, that was sort of like the height
[14:54]of the success that I expected for my first book.
[14:57]And when they told me that, I was just so overwhelmed.
[15:00]You know, I was so grateful, so excited.
[15:02]I wanted to immediately tell everybody
[15:03]but they were like, here's the catch.
[15:05]You can't tell anybody until the day.
[15:08]Like she's gonna make the announcement
[15:10]and then you can tell everybody.
[15:11]And that was the hardest part
[15:12]was, you know, I wanted to shout it from the rooftops
[15:16]and I couldn't tell anybody.
[15:17]So first there was that.
[15:18]And then the book comes out
[15:19]and a little bit more than a week later.
[15:21]I guess it was the following Wednesday.
[15:23]Again, I get a call from my editor.
[15:25]And again, we jump on Zoom.
[15:26]And this time, she's there,
[15:29]along with my publicist
[15:30]and to other the head of marketing publicity are there.
[15:32]And there you have cups.
[15:34]And Maya, my editor is holding a bottle of champagne.
[15:38]So I was like, this is gonna be good.
[15:40]And then they told me,
[15:41]you're number two in the New York Times bestseller list.
[15:43]And again, I just felt completely overwhelmed
[15:45]and so excited.
[15:47]And they actually captured the moment on video.
[15:49]So then Reese's book club showed it.
[15:52]I was a real on Instagram.
[15:54]So that moment was kind of memorialized.
[15:56]And I just like to look at it sometimes to remember
[15:58]like, wow, that was, that really happened.
[16:01]Oh my gosh, that gave me chills.
[16:03]I have to go back and find that video.
[16:05]That's awesome.
[16:06]Aw, so inspiring, so exciting, so great.
[16:10]So where are you with writing now?
[16:12]What are you working on?
[16:13]And how are you like dividing your time
[16:16]between the publicity for the book and writing and reading
[16:20]and all of that?
[16:21]Well, I'm working on my second book.
[16:22]I've got a good start on it,
[16:24]maybe a little less than a third of the way into it.
[16:26]And it's coming a lot easier.
[16:28]Cause I feel like I did that work to learn the genre,
[16:30]learn, learn really how to write a book
[16:33]by writing a book.
[16:34]This is hopefully gonna come a lot quicker.
[16:36]My first book start to finish took almost seven years.
[16:39]So this I'm hoping to have done much quicker.
[16:42]It's coming a lot faster.
[16:43]And I think it's even creepier.
[16:45]So I'm really excited for peace lines.
[16:48]If they like that, I think they really don't like this too.
[16:50]What do you think it feels to you about creepy terrifying things?
[16:54]I think I like the mystery of it.
[16:56]So I tend to like mysterious stories more than I like,
[16:59]like let's say slasher books or slash in movies.
[17:02]So what I think I like is the questions
[17:05]of how did this person disappear
[17:09]like is that house really haunted?
[17:11]So I think it's the mystery,
[17:13]the sort of like mystery box nature of those type of books
[17:16]where you have to keep going to find out what happens.
[17:18]I've always been drawn to mystery.
[17:20]And I think that's why awesome.
[17:22]And what has opened up to you as a result
[17:25]of this early success of the book?
[17:27]Like what opportunities did you just never think
[17:29]you would have like something specific
[17:32]that you're just like, this is the coolest?
[17:34]Well, this podcast is a little bit of this.
[17:37]I think all of the publicity is just amazing.
[17:42]Like when I think about the many opportunities
[17:44]that I've had to reach people all over the country,
[17:48]people in Australia are reading the book, people in Canada.
[17:52]So I think that's the biggest opportunity
[17:55]is that I'm reaching people.
[17:56]I never would have imagined reading my book.
[17:59]So I think that's just been incredibly exciting.
[18:02]That's really great.
[18:03]Very nice answer, by the way.
[18:04]Thank you.
[18:07]Awesome.
[18:08]And what do you like to do when you're not reading and writing?
[18:10]I love hiking.
[18:11]I live in Los Angeles.
[18:12]So there's some really great places to hike near
[18:14]me at Griffith Park.
[18:15]I like cooking.
[18:17]I love dancing.
[18:18]I used to go out dancing a lot when I was younger
[18:20]and I mostly do it in my living room,
[18:21]but I so really enjoy it.
[18:24]I do a lot of YouTube dance videos for exercise.
[18:27]Oh, that's a good idea.
[18:28]Does that count?
[18:29]You must count.
[18:30]Oh, yeah, there's Zumba, there's Bollywood,
[18:32]Top Sugar Fitness has some great dance videos.
[18:35]Oh, all right.
[18:37]That sounds like a lot more fun.
[18:38]I used to do this dance body class,
[18:40]which I feel like is like a hybrid.
[18:42]You should check it out.
[18:43]They have like a whole app and everything.
[18:44]Yeah, I feel like the music distracted me enough
[18:47]that I didn't realize I was totally working on.
[18:49]But then I just reached.
[18:50]It's not really stretched.
[18:51]It's not stretched.
[18:53]Check, yeah, check in the body.
[18:55]And what else are you reading?
[18:56]I know you mentioned a lot of heroes in the past,
[18:58]but like what's on your nightstand now?
[18:59]Or what are you looking forward to reading?
[19:01]A book that actually tonight
[19:02]I'll be in conversation with Jenny Herrera,
[19:04]who wrote The Hunter.
[19:05]Yes.
[19:06]And that was just such a fun book.
[19:07]I had a little bookstore in Santa Monica.
[19:10]Yeah.
[19:11]I love the book.
[19:12]So Zippy's bookstore, my first time checking out the bookstore
[19:14]will also be my first time meeting Jennifer
[19:17]who we've been communicating over email and Instagram.
[19:20]And I just really left her book and she read my book.
[19:23]And we've talked a little bit about how they both
[19:25]share this theme of a character who has to go home again
[19:28]to some secret from their past.
[19:30]And how it's a very common trope.
[19:33]And we've been sort of talking about what's behind that trope.
[19:35]Why is it that people feel compelled to tell stories
[19:39]about returning to where they come from?
[19:41]And we've talked about what that might come from.
[19:43]And like why that keeps appealing to people,
[19:47]both the writers and the readers.
[19:49]So we're really excited to talk about that.
[19:51]And I also just got, had the amazing privilege
[19:54]of reading Mr. Magic, the new book by Kirsten White.
[19:58]And she wrote hide.
[19:59]And it's...
[20:00]It was so good.
[20:01]It was about a, about a children's show from the 90s
[20:04]that children who watch it, they all remember watching it,
[20:07]but there's no trace of the show ever being online.
[20:10]It's like a group that it was ever really on the air.
[20:13]But all these children have memories of watching it.
[20:15]This is fiction, right?
[20:16]This is fiction, oh yeah.
[20:17]I know.
[20:18]I was like about to tell you all the shows I watched
[20:20]in case you do.
[20:22]Okay, keep going.
[20:23]It's like a show that we might have all watched,
[20:25]like Barney or something.
[20:26]And it was led by this strange charismatic man
[20:29]named Mr. Magic.
[20:31]And so the mystery of the book is sort of,
[20:33]who was Mr. Magic?
[20:35]And what was up with this show
[20:37]and something horrible happened on its last episode.
[20:39]So how did that come back?
[20:42]I don't wanna give too much away, but.
[20:43]Wow, that's a second.
[20:45]It was just, I flew through it.
[20:46]It comes out I think in August,
[20:49]but I got to read it a little bit early
[20:50]and that's the most recent book that I read
[20:53]and I highly recommend it.
[20:54]Mr. Magic.
[20:55]Yeah.
[20:56]Okay, amazing.
[20:57]All right, I'm excited for that.
[20:59]Awesome.
[21:00]All right, well, I hope you have a great time at the bookstore
[21:04]and I know we're trying to stream it tonight.
[21:07]So we'll see if that works
[21:08]because I really wanna watch.
[21:10]And yeah, I hope to see you in LA sometime.
[21:13]There are lots.
[21:13]So hopefully our paths will cross.
[21:16]I hope so too.
[21:17]Okay, and I'll be in touch about the class.
[21:20]Excellent, really excited about that.
[21:22]Okay, awesome.
[21:23]All right, thanks Anna.
[21:25]Thank you so much.
[21:25]Okay, bye bye.
[21:27]Thanks for listening to this episode
[21:29]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[21:31]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[21:33]at Zebioans, and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[21:36]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[21:39]and sign up for my virtual book club
[21:40]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[21:43]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[21:44]at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[21:47]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[21:49]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.