Stuart Gibbs, WHALE DONE
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
[0:06]This 30-minute podcast features a new author interviewed by me every single day, 365 days
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[0:57]Enjoy.
[1:03]Stuart Gibbs is the author of, my gosh, so many books, including Spice School X and Well
[1:10]Done.
[1:11]He is the author of the whole Spice School series.
[1:14]And actually, I should just read his bio, which says Stuart Gibbs is the New York Times
[1:17]bestselling author of the Charlie Thorne series, Fun Jungle Series, Moon Base Alpha Series,
[1:22]Once Upon a Tim series, and Spice School Series.
[1:25]He has written screenplays, worked out a whole bunch of animated films, developed TV shows,
[1:30]in a newspaper columnist and research, Capaveras.
[1:33]The world's largest rodents, Stuart lives with his family in Los Angeles.
[1:37]My kids, by the way, are obsessed with the Spice School series, so this was a particular
[1:42]joy.
[1:43]Welcome, Stuart.
[1:44]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:45]On mom's don't have time to read books to discuss, well, everything.
[1:48]Your amazing body work well done and everything else.
[1:50]Well, thank you so much for having me here.
[1:53]It's a pleasure.
[1:54]I love everything that you've been doing lately.
[1:56]I've been a big fan of the podcast and all.
[1:59]I'm still not a mom.
[2:00]I feel like I'm still not listening, so.
[2:03]And it's okay.
[2:05]It's not exclusive.
[2:06]Right?
[2:07]It is not exclusive.
[2:08]I was just saying, I'm a mom, but anyone's welcome to listen.
[2:12]Anyway, well, this is a particularly meaningful episode for two reasons.
[2:16]One, because Sarah Milaneski is the person who told me to do this podcast to begin with,
[2:22]and she is our mutual friend, so that's wonderful, and she's connected with me to you.
[2:27]But also, you have your books have filled my home.
[2:31]My kids have loved your book so much.
[2:34]My daughter, I can't even find the cover to this.
[2:36]I'm holding up spy school project X.
[2:37]She takes the covers off and does God knows what to her books, but anyway, so I don't
[2:42]know.
[2:43]It's just really exciting.
[2:44]That's very well.
[2:45]It's very nice to hear, yes, and yes, Sarah being a mutual friend who has shepherded
[2:52]so many people's careers, like she's just like the go to you say, what should I do
[2:56]about this?
[2:58]She knows how she's full of advice, and I would say almost every bit of it is very
[3:05]good.
[3:06]That's true.
[3:07]She is such a good sense of everything, so, and I'm very pleased to please say hi to
[3:11]your kids for me and say thank you for her.
[3:12]Oh my gosh, I will.
[3:13]I know.
[3:14]My daughter wanted to be on it, but obviously she's it's awesome.
[3:16]I'll show her this afterwards, so, okay, so, well done.
[3:21]Let's talk about that first.
[3:24]Okay, tell why this book, why I picked, you know, where to come from?
[3:28]Well, so the whole fun jungle series really came from fact that I was always fascinated
[3:33]with animals and when I was in college, I was actually studying field biology, which led
[3:38]me to work at a zoo, and while I was at the zoo studying capybarads, the world's largest
[3:45]rodent, I got to go behind the scenes a lot, I started talking to zoo keepers, I started
[3:49]talking to biologists, and I just started to think wow, a zoo is just such a great place
[3:54]to set a story of some sort, and I played around the different kinds of things I could
[3:59]tell at a zoo over the years, one day hit on this idea of doing like a mystery series
[4:03]that takes place at a zoo, and so that allowed me to combine sort of my love of animals
[4:11]and my love of writing, and so one of the things about this series is that I get a lot
[4:17]of suggestions from readers about, you know, what animals should I do next, and, you
[4:21]know, there's been a big surge, a lot of sloth fans recently, I don't know, not a
[4:27]pangolin fans, pangolin is pretty obscure, but somehow kids are very into them, and usually
[4:32]I'm like, you know, I really can't take the suggestions, but so many kids are writing
[4:36]me saying like you should do whales, and I love whales, so I started to like do some research
[4:45]in the whales, and I, you know, I had this idea about a mystery involving a dead whale
[4:53]that's washed up on the beach, and I, you know, I thought like, well, how can a human
[4:58]actually kill a whale, and then when I started doing research, I found sadly there were
[5:01]so many ways that even though the whales, the largest creatures ever lived, there's so
[5:06]many ways that humans can kill them, and so it actually seemed like a good mystery to
[5:11]do, and I had to make a little bit of a change because the series really happens in most,
[5:16]mostly it's happening in Texas, but there's not really that many whales off the coast
[5:20]of Texas, and in the Gulf of Mexico, so I actually this, I live in Southern California
[5:25]this the first time I've ever set a book in Southern California, because we actually
[5:28]have a very healthy whale population off of Southern California, so I moved the story
[5:36]over here and had to come up with a reason that Teddy ends up in Malibu, in fact.
[5:43]Nobody needs a reason to end up in Malibu, it's always good to go there, except maybe
[5:50]on that day when there's a big dead whale washed up on the beach, but yeah, Malibu is
[5:55]this sort of great place where there's all these sort of public beaches, and then right
[5:59]next to them is some of the most exclusive real estate in the entire world, and in California
[6:05]you're allowed to, everybody's allowed access to the beach so you can go walk in front of these
[6:09]people's mansions, and so I thought, if I'm going to have a dead whale wash up on the beach
[6:15]and then explode actually, what better place to do it than in front of the most expensive real
[6:21]estate in America? Why not? Yes. What made you start writing for kids to begin with?
[6:29]I had really always thought that I was going to write for adults, but it took me a while to,
[6:36]you know, I tried to get books published from the time I really was a kid, so I guess I was writing
[6:41]for kids then by the end. But I really thought I was going to write for adults, and I was working
[6:47]in the film business, because I couldn't get a book color if I found I could actually write
[6:52]movies and get paid to do that. But at one point I thought, well, I want to explore that idea of
[7:00]writing a book again, and I was put in touch with an agent named Jennifer Joel, who like the
[7:07]very first conversation we ever had, Jennifer called me up and said, had I ever thought about
[7:11]writing for kids? And that world was, it was clean. I mean, people were doing it, like Harry Potter
[7:19]come out, Percy Jackson had just come out. There would be kids just come out, but there weren't
[7:23]that many people writing for kids, and particularly writing stuff that the publishers thought
[7:28]boys would be interested in. So I was kind of in the right place at the right time to do that.
[7:33]But really until Jen said this to me, I really had not thought about it. And then the moment she said,
[7:39]do you have any ideas that would work for kids? I was like, oh my gosh, yes, I do. In fact, the
[7:44]fun juggle series, I had really thought was going to be for adults. I thought that my
[7:49]lead was going to be one of the vets at the zoo who realized that something had been murdered,
[7:55]and then he investigated without permission. And I thought, well, no, actually an animal
[8:00]murder is a great crime for a kid to investigate, because it's, you know, the police are not
[8:05]going to think it's a crime, right? They can call the police and say somebody murdered the
[8:08]hippo at the zoo. And the police are probably not going to take him seriously.
[8:12]Wow. So Jen Joel, that is so funny. I met Jen Joel. I was, after college, I joined the
[8:19]New York Public Library Young Lions Association. And she was like on that committee also. And so
[8:25]I got to know her then. And then over the years, I always would like send her whatever
[8:29]book I was working on. And she would politely be like, no, I don't think so. Anyway, we stayed
[8:36]in touch for a long time. And then she ended up being my dad's agent on his book. He's like,
[8:40]oh, yeah. I mean, you know, Joel, she is, she is, of course, right? And right. So, yeah, I mean,
[8:49]like based on that conversation, she has been my agent now for like 15 years.
[8:54]Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And so, so, you know, I am devoted to her.
[8:59]Yes. That's so nice. Oh, she's awesome. Well, so also your spy school series is massively
[9:05]successful. And I was reading in this one how you take little bits and pieces of your life,
[9:11]like when you were in DC underground in the subways. And then you just like take it and use it 20
[9:17]years later or whatever. Like you're just constantly collecting little tidbits and scenes that you
[9:22]can then sort of scatter about as they come to your consciousness again. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
[9:29]you know, it's, it's like life is just sort of this giant research trap.
[9:34]And I don't know if everybody works his way, but, but you know, you just don't know when something
[9:39]is going to be useful. So, so like the more of the world you can explore, the, you know,
[9:44]the more things you can learn about the better. Because I, you know, I have kids right,
[9:47]you know, the only time kids are like, well, how do you have so many ideas? I'm like,
[9:50]because I've just been around so much longer than you have. Like you're eight, you haven't seen
[9:56]very much. But, you know, so yeah, it's a, you know, it's a, you know,
[10:00]uh, if you're traveling someplace and you just, you know, say like, oh, well, let's go explore
[10:04]over here. You know, maybe that finds a place in a story at some point. Maybe it doesn't,
[10:08]but, you know, hopefully it's an interesting experience no matter what.
[10:12]Well, I like that, that little anecdote and that you took your friend to had, I guess, MS in a
[10:17]wheelchair and so you had to go look at different parts of the station. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I mean,
[10:23]it was just sort of a weird thing that she and I were, it was a coincidence. We happened to be
[10:28]on the same train and then she had MS. So she took to get off the train, had to go through this
[10:34]whole sort of subterranean part of a union station in Washington, D.C. And so I sort of came along to help
[10:40]with this and saw this whole part of the station that most people don't see unless they've got
[10:47]MS or maybe something else and, and, you know, it was just a weird thing and then, you know,
[10:52]right, 20 years later, I'm writing something. I thought like, hey, I, I need my characters to get
[10:56]onto a train, but I don't want them to go like the normal route that the passengers get on. So I
[11:01]can send them this other way. So funny. So you take the spy school series through all these things
[11:07]from camp to skiing to, you know, everywhere. How do you pick like do you have the whole series lined
[11:13]up of like the 10 next places you're going to do it or like how does this whole process work for
[11:18]you? You know, it's I haven't thought it out that far. I mean, I thought a couple books out ahead
[11:26]and, but it is I really do more come into it like I'm thinking like what do I want to do with
[11:31]my characters next? And then, you know, often then sort of the plot sort of comes from what I
[11:38]want the characters to do next and then maybe the location comes after that. But it is all a bit
[11:46]fluid and, you know, that the newest spy school spy school 11, which is coming soon, I was playing
[11:53]playing around with different ideas, but then I happened to go up to Alaska and thought this is
[11:58]the perfect place for this book. And so I think, I think that's a, I think I just just did a reveal
[12:04]there that we're in spy school 11 takes place. You heard it here first. Yes. Yeah.
[12:11]Freaking news. Yeah. So it's just like I was in Alaska saying, Oh, yeah, no, this, it just seemed
[12:17]like just a great place to tell the character story I wanted to tell. And then based on the fact
[12:24]there was Alaska that ended up driving a lot of the plot anyhow, but I've been sort of thinking
[12:29]for a long time, like Alaska would be a great place for a spy school story. And so I had that
[12:36]idea then we'll do Alaska then it worked out. And so it all, there's no one way that it happens.
[12:43]So interesting. And now I realize, of course, I made the same mistake that I did with my daughter
[12:48]when it's not, it's not Project X that is the then Project 10 or is it still kind of
[12:52]just project it? No, it's absolutely project X that just was the 10 bucks. So, so I was my
[12:56]clever little thing that was Project X, but, you know, if you know your, your Roman numerals
[13:03]is also Project X. That is one of those. Do they even teach that anymore, Roman numerals?
[13:08]I don't, I don't, I don't have to ask my kids any of them to learn it.
[13:13]Yeah. I don't, I, you know, I mean, I feel like they pick them up somewhere.
[13:16]They pick them up at the Super Bowl. Yes, yes, exactly. That is, that's why it's so important
[13:21]that any thing in our lives should have Roman numerals. And it, it's the Super Bowl. So everybody
[13:28]goes like, what one is this? Seven, I don't know. That's so funny. Well, yeah, gets it out to the
[13:36]masses, I guess. So you have 11 coming. So it's, is it already, that's already probably done.
[13:41]So what about seven is, is like 98% done. I guess something like that. Yeah, I just turned
[13:49]in a draft the other day. So it's really, that's exciting. So when you get up in the morning,
[13:55]like, what is your schedule? How much time are you writing versus editing versus doing book
[14:00]marketing and all that stuff? And when you're in a book, like, how long can you go to stretch
[14:04]just writing? Oh boy. You know, yeah, it, you know, every day, it sort of depends on, like,
[14:10]ideally, I'm writing all day, or editing, but yeah, that marketing sort of creeps in,
[14:17]there's all sorts of things that sort of crap up and things like, oh, this is what I'm going to do
[14:20]today. And then something happens and you say, oh gosh, I have to do. So not to take away from the fact
[14:25]that I enjoy these conversations. We don't have to talk much longer. You can get back to her. No,
[14:32]no, no, no, let's go right here. So yeah, I, yeah, you know, but the, right, the bread and butter
[14:39]is, is right the books. So I, you know, I try to, like, my whole idea is trying to get excited
[14:46]about what I'm going to do every day. So, so it's, you know, because I don't think I'm, it's unusual
[14:53]to say, like, the hardest thing to do is to get started every day. And, and that's pretty common.
[14:58]And so I, so I take a walk. I actually walk my daughter to school. And then with the dog,
[15:06]and then we kind of keep going, the dog and I, they work on ideas together. Dog has very few
[15:11]ideas except for squirrels are awful. But, you know, that's sort of the, you know, but I'm walking
[15:18]and I'm thinking and saying like, okay, here's what the, here's what the plan for today is.
[15:22]And then I come back and, you know, I, you don't know what kind of writing day you're going to have
[15:27]ever. You just sort of sit down and hopefully, you know, it's a good writing day and you get a lot
[15:32]done. Some days you might be like, you know, I didn't get that much done, but, but hopefully
[15:36]you got something good every day. Yeah, so that's, you know, it's, it's a pretty, it's kind of a
[15:43]nine to five like schedule really. Wow. So how do you maintain? How do you separate? I mean,
[15:49]not that any of us are good at this in any particular way, but when you have like your own
[15:54]stuff going on in life, and then you have to be sort of joyous and fun and playful and creative on
[15:59]the page. And I know you've gone through so much with losing your wife. And I'm so, so sorry about that.
[16:04]And, but then you have to like, what boot up the computer and like get back to whale spouting,
[16:10]that, you know, I mean, how do you, how do you go do that? Well, you know, I mean, in, you know,
[16:16]I wasn't sure myself after my wife died, I was like, you know, am I going to be able to write again?
[16:22]I don't know. And then after like three weeks, I realized I wanted to write again, like writing
[16:29]in a sense was an escape. I go to these other places and, and get to play, you know, like,
[16:35]like my real life was like, oh, talk to the insurance company, you know, sit on hold with the
[16:41]insurance company for three hours. So, you know, like the idea is saying like, oh, I could go
[16:46]off into this world that I've created and hang out with these characters that I created
[16:50]and, and yeah, get to blow up a whale or something like that was actually an escape, right?
[16:56]And, you know, I, I, I mean, I think it's, there's a strange thing about writing that,
[17:02]right at some point, I just realized like I, I've spent so much time at fun jungle or at spy school,
[17:09]that it really does seem to like exist in my head, right? Like I, I know, like I know, you know,
[17:14]I can walk around fun jungle. I know the whole place. I know what the front gates look like. I
[17:18]know like if I walk through the front gates that, you know, that there's, there's a souvenir
[17:22]store just to the left and that the, you know, Hippo River is straight ahead. And so there's a point
[17:28]where you're like, okay, is this a delusion, but, but, you know, we, I, I'm pretty sure all authors
[17:34]are sort of creating these, these, you know, worlds in their head. And then we probably, you know,
[17:40]as much as we tried to describe that, that world to our readers, like we've got this vision of it's,
[17:45]that, you know, it's only ours. And, and so, yeah, at some point, I was like, you know,
[17:50]have I spent more time at fun jungle than I have at, you know, like at, our locals are certainly,
[17:59]right? Yeah. I mean, I've, I've spent, you know, maybe I've spent years there. I've spent more time
[18:03]there than I, you know, I've spent at my kids' schools or things like that. So, so there is this,
[18:08]this nice thing, I guess, about getting to the creating this world and getting to go visit a lot.
[18:15]Now, there's probably a bunch of psychologists going, like, oh my goodness, whatever it is.
[18:19]I was, I was thinking about that, not just for you, but, you know, what is it about,
[18:23]because I spend my day talking to people who do this, right? And I get it, right? I'm like writing
[18:28]novel now too. I'm like, what is it, what is it about this form of escape where this imaginative,
[18:36]sort of coping mechanism, if you will, like, what, you know, I found that like most, not most,
[18:43]many authors share an anxiety disorder, which is why I feel like I connect with every author.
[18:49]I'm like, oh, I thought it was me. Turns out it's this thing that I have that everybody else
[18:54]has who likes to write. But I don't know. It is like a good question. Who else escapes in this way,
[18:59]right? No, art is painting. And I don't know. Children do, which is the, which is the interesting thing
[19:05]that, I mean, which, that, you know, children have these make believe worlds and they,
[19:11]they, you know, they make up stories all the time. And so, you know, I do think like sometimes,
[19:18]like, okay, as, like, as an author in theory, like, you just don't lose that. You keep saying,
[19:23]like, oh, I'm going to make up a world. I'm going to make up the story. I'm going to, and,
[19:26]and there are lots of people who, you know, we're friends with authors. They're all doing the same
[19:32]thing. And then I guess there are people who that sort of fades away in them and then they say,
[19:38]I'm going to go be a lawyer. I don't know. I, I, so, but there, there is something that like,
[19:44]you know, we're way like, as authors, we get, you know, our job is to kind of keep that sense of
[19:52]imagination that we had as children. I've like kind of taken it one step further. I think with
[19:58]a lot of the authors where I'm like,
[20:00]I feel like all the characters are so real
[20:01]that I've started wanting to introduce them.
[20:04]Did I mean, so like, oh my gosh,
[20:06]that woman in that book would totally need,
[20:08]like she needs to have coffee with that character
[20:10]in that book.
[20:11]And once I tried to like put two authors together
[20:12]and I was like, would you like write something
[20:14]where you're, and they were like, no.
[20:16]Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was so cool.
[20:19]I've wanted your characters,
[20:20]ended up in one of Sarah's in whatever after I've said that.
[20:23]And they kind of like crossed like in Roblox,
[20:26]you know how everybody meets up in this, yes.
[20:28]Where is the Roblox of books?
[20:30]Yeah, no, I mean, it sounds like a great idea.
[20:34]It's just, Sarah and I were very good friends
[20:37]with a writer named James Ponti, who's great,
[20:41]who also writes, you know, these wonderful mysteries
[20:43]for kids and has a book called City Spies.
[20:45]And James and I are constantly having kids come to us
[20:48]and saying like, why don't you cross over
[20:50]City Spies in Spy School?
[20:52]And then we have to say to them like, look,
[20:54]we are great friends, it would, we would hate doing it.
[20:59]So much work for us to cross over our books.
[21:03]And because the kids are just like,
[21:05]what, how could you possibly say no to that?
[21:07]This is the best idea ever.
[21:09]Like you guys are friends, you'd have so much fun.
[21:10]And you'd say like, you know, it's just,
[21:13]it's like my process, his process,
[21:15]I don't know his character because his characters
[21:17]are so fully formed and his head minor, so fully formed.
[21:21]It's so, but you know, would it be fun to have them meet?
[21:25]Absolutely, yes.
[21:26]If I could have a party where they could hang out
[21:28]and then Sarah's characters and all my friends
[21:30]character, everybody's my characters,
[21:31]got all come to this party.
[21:32]That would be awesome.
[21:34]But I think they would have to happen all of our heads,
[21:36]which is odd.
[21:39]I mean, it would have to be like a writer's room.
[21:42]You know, it would have to be like a collaborative around
[21:44]the table like you're writing a TV show.
[21:46]I figured out how to do it.
[21:48]I mean, I'm not saying it'll never happen.
[21:51]But I think the kids think of it as like,
[21:55]oh, it's half the work, right?
[21:56]You seem to have to write half of it and then it's a book.
[22:00]And you say, actually, no, it's probably 50% more work
[22:05]because we'd have to work all this out
[22:08]and bat it back and forth and be constantly arguing about like,
[22:12]well, how does the scene work or something like that?
[22:15]Like, I honestly, having even developed some shows
[22:19]for television, I was constantly terrified
[22:21]of having to be in the writer's room
[22:23]because I'm going to have to collaborate with people
[22:25]where I'm so set in my ways about this is how I write.
[22:28]I just do this.
[22:29]This is, you know, I don't talk to anybody while I'm writing.
[22:33]I don't have to interact with people.
[22:35]I just do this.
[22:36]And so the collaboration of it,
[22:41]the actual writing part is frightening to me.
[22:45]Wow.
[22:47]Well, this is totally fascinating.
[22:50]I'm just unburdening all this stuff.
[22:51]No, no, I still am trying to think of, you know,
[22:56]you could do it, well, I don't know, I mean, I can't do it.
[23:00]We're like, the other author wouldn't even be involved.
[23:02]Like, you would just put in one of his characters into your book.
[23:05]And then you would reciprocate in another book
[23:08]and then, you know, you'd double your market chairs.
[23:11]I said, okay, all right, that's not bad.
[23:14]Right, we have to, right, you have to be a bit of a little release
[23:20]there to say, like, okay, I'm going to trust you
[23:21]to handle this character.
[23:23]Yeah, which would be difficult, but right,
[23:25]I'm sure James could pull it off.
[23:27]Interesting.
[23:28]Maybe it's like the life rights of the character.
[23:29]You'd have to do that.
[23:30]Yes.
[23:31]Contract.
[23:33]Oh my gosh, I'm sorry, I'm on such a tangent.
[23:35]No, no, no, no, it's always, you know,
[23:37]no, no, you've got enough time.
[23:39]Like, well, maybe, maybe you could work.
[23:41]Right.
[23:42]There are all these kids now going, I told you, I told you.
[23:46]Let's say this is for the kids.
[23:49]Oh my gosh.
[23:50]OK, advice for aspiring authors.
[23:52]Oh, OK, well, you know, OK, the first part, of course,
[23:57]right as much as you can is practice.
[23:59]It's like, it's like, if you want to be a professional athlete,
[24:02]you don't just show up on the baseball field one day
[24:04]and say, like, I want to be a professional athlete.
[24:07]You've got to practice, right?
[24:08]So writing is practice, which means that if you write something
[24:11]and it does not get published, that was not a waste of your time,
[24:14]you were practicing and getting because, trust me,
[24:17]I wrote plenty of things that didn't get published.
[24:20]And then I would say, obviously reading is important.
[24:25]But I think a lot of the time, especially young kids,
[24:31]they get, they're not sure where the line is
[24:33]between like plagiarism and homage, right?
[24:37]And I think it's important to know that if you read something
[24:42]and you really like it, if you try to emulate that,
[24:46]that's totally fine, because nobody has the same style.
[24:51]So if I was fascinated with writers like Douglas Adams
[24:57]and who did Hitchhiker's Galaxy and Carl Heisen,
[25:00]wrote these great comic crime novels
[25:02]that often had environmental issues.
[25:04]And Michael Creighton, who wrote these wonderful stories
[25:07]that combine science and adventure.
[25:09]And so I was trying to emulate like Adams humor
[25:13]and when Heisen's plotting and Creighton's way
[25:18]that he brings science into his stories.
[25:22]And but my style is not the same as any of theirs.
[25:26]And so you're allowed to do that, right?
[25:32]Taking somebody's characters in world is fan fiction.
[25:35]And you can't run off and publish that.
[25:37]But can you try and write a story that is where
[25:42]you try and follow the style of an author
[25:44]that you really like or, or, because I can still learn.
[25:48]I can still reread Ellen Raskin's The Westing Game,
[25:51]which is like the greatest, not just maybe middle grade mystery
[25:54]ever written, but possibly one of the greatest mysteries ever written.
[25:58]And I, I still reread that book and learn how she plotted,
[26:02]like study how she plotted that out and learned from her.
[26:06]Very smart.
[26:08]Awesome.
[26:08]I love it.
[26:09]Thank you.
[26:10]Oh, sure.
[26:11]Great.
[26:11]I can let you go back to your written book now.
[26:14]I feel like I made it to, like, this is a, this is a,
[26:17]I'm just, but this is not a burden.
[26:18]I am just playing.
[26:19]I'm playing, I'm playing.
[26:20]I totally understand.
[26:21]But thank you for taking the time out of the day.
[26:24]Thank you for having me.
[26:25]at least early enough that you can still have a whole work day.
[26:28]Oh, yeah, yes, I'm right.
[26:29]Yes.
[26:30]Now, now, now, now, now, now I'm thinking like, no,
[26:34]this would actually, we could just talk all day and then I'll just work.
[26:36]Yeah, sounds good.
[26:37]I'll ignore my work too.
[26:40]You have such a busy week.
[26:41]Oh, my gosh.
[26:42]Oh, that's crazy.
[26:43]That's fine.
[26:44]But this is a highlight.
[26:45]It's always so nice to just connect with somebody one-on-one and, I don't know.
[26:49]That's great.
[26:50]I love it so much.
[26:51]So maybe I actually can ask you a question.
[26:54]Because you have all your books organized by color,
[26:56]which I've heard.
[26:58]Do you actually remember the book by the cover color?
[27:03]Because my way at one point did organize all of them.
[27:07]And like that, and I could never find anything ever again.
[27:12]I really like doing it that way.
[27:14]I think about everything in color.
[27:15]I can't.
[27:16]That's how my brain works.
[27:17]So it's a lot easier for me.
[27:20]With all my galleys and stuff,
[27:22]I have them by month.
[27:24]And I'm like, I would fail the memory game.
[27:27]I am not good with spatial relations at all.
[27:30]I can't look at a pile and remember anything.
[27:33]They're all mixed up.
[27:33]But if I took all my galleys even, which I'm not going to do.
[27:36]Because then I could find, I'm like, oh, Sam is a black cover.
[27:40]And then I would be like, oh, it's right there.
[27:42]So it's just easier for me.
[27:44]All right.
[27:44]It looks really good.
[27:45]Thank you.
[27:46]It's just I'm at a total.
[27:49]I like, there was so many times when I would be like saying,
[27:55]OK, I have to go find this book.
[27:56]And I would be like, do you know what color it is?
[28:00]And I'd be like, no, I'm going to be able to color any book.
[28:04]I don't even know my own.
[28:05]I'm really excited.
[28:07]Yeah.
[28:07]No, it works for me.
[28:09]And I mean, I guess if you were going to take the time,
[28:13]I mean, I guess the question is, are you going to organize your book
[28:15]in some books in any way?
[28:17]And this is the fastest way versus advertising.
[28:20]Right.
[28:21]What other way are you going to organize your books at home?
[28:23]Like, my genre, that would take forever.
[28:26]That's how I do it.
[28:27]No, I know if I should have it.
[28:28]Yes.
[28:29]Do you really?
[28:30]Yeah.
[28:30]Yes.
[28:31]Because that's how I can remember.
[28:32]I can remember.
[28:33]Like, you know, it's not a great, you know, it's like,
[28:36]it just gets me to the right area.
[28:37]Like, OK, you know, now the book is like,
[28:40]all the mysteries are here.
[28:41]They're somewhere or, you know, this general area.
[28:44]Then I can find the book, but if it's like,
[28:46]and just really, I apparently don't think in terms of color.
[28:49]I think that would take me so long.
[28:50]I mean, like, well, it's a thriller, but it's also like,
[28:54]maybe it should be over here.
[28:55]I think I would get in my head too much.
[28:57]OK, OK.
[28:58]The genre.
[28:59]Anyway, whatever.
[29:00]OK.
[29:02]I just, I'm fascinated by it, because I am looking at it,
[29:05]saying like, man, that looks great.
[29:08]Thank you.
[29:08]Yeah, it makes me very happy.
[29:10]OK, all right, so, but that is well, give it a shot.
[29:15]You know, you know, it's fun.
[29:16]No, I, well, this is, I actually, at one point,
[29:19]had this way, somebody was in my house to, like, look,
[29:25]look, I love the house.
[29:26]Well, some painting was done.
[29:27]And she reorganized my library while I was gone to me.
[29:33]And I came back and the library looked great.
[29:35]And I was so upset.
[29:37]I was living.
[29:38]I had to call this person, but I knew she was going to be so thinking.
[29:40]I was going to call and say, you'll reorganize the library.
[29:42]It looks fantastic.
[29:43]And I called her and I was like, what were you thinking?
[29:46]You can't reorganize somebody's library without asking
[29:48]their permission.
[29:49]And, you know, and she was like, I didn't realize it was
[29:53]or there was any organization at all.
[29:55]And I mean, it was like, you know, there was like a biography
[29:58]section that she had just.
[30:00]I was like, you didn't notice that all the books in one section were like Einstein, Darwin,
[30:04]Cleopatra. Like, you did not even look at the titles of the books while you were
[30:08]organizing. And she was like, no, I did not. And I was like, have you ever opened a book in
[30:14]your life? You know how books work? You know, they tell you what the book is on the cover of the
[30:20]book. I don't know. So now I'm just unburdening so much. All right.
[30:25]That's okay. Okay. So never try it again. Forget it again. No, John. Okay, John. I might try that.
[30:31]Okay. We'll see you. Okay. Take care. Pleasure.
[30:35]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to
[30:39]follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign
[30:44]up for my newsletter at zibiowans.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors
[30:49]on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan. In fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[30:55]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and