Tiffany McDaniel, ON THE SAVAGE SIDE
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[0:58]Tiffany McDaniel is the author of On the Savage Side a novel
[1:02]Tiffany is an Ohio native who's writing is inspired by the rolling hills and woods of the land
[1:06]She knows her debut novel the summer that melted everything won the Guardians not the book her award and the
[1:13]Ohhayana readers choice award
[1:15]She's also the author of Betty an international bestseller and an Ohio and library readers choice award winner
[1:22]Welcome Tiffany. Thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books to discuss your novel on the savage side
[1:29]Thank you so much so activity tell listeners what your book is about
[1:35]It's inspired by the true crime case known as the Chillicopy 6 out of Chillicopy, Ohio
[1:42]Few years ago in Chillicopy women had started to disappear and go missing
[1:47]A few other bodies were discovered some are still missing in a bill installed crime today
[1:54]Oh my gosh, you have such an interesting captivating and really original writing style
[2:01]You jump back and forth from the point of view of water from the river
[2:06]from a third person with the girls and the mom like you're you take us sort of under and over and around and
[2:14]Everywhere to give us a sense of the story and the environment tell me a little about how you decided how to tell this story
[2:22]I really wanted to bring the river into the story and so we have sections in the book in which the river herself is speaking
[2:30]And since most of these women were discovered in or by the river
[2:35]I thought was important to hear the setting itself
[2:39]Give those final moments and give that voice of experience
[2:44]And as I was looking at the story and kind of
[2:48]Looking at how those women were coming together. I really wanted to especially go back to their childhood
[2:55]And we go back to Ark and Daffy and they're the twin sisters within the book
[2:59]And so I really wanted their younger voice as well as to shine through
[3:03]Just as much as the mature voices of this collective group of women
[3:08]So that was particularly I mean just so powerful to read about
[3:14]Them how their mother who they didn't even understand sort of her drug addiction and what was going on
[3:19]But how her really out of control behavior affected them in their age and their grandmother trying to help and just
[3:30]The confusion and fear when their father passes away
[3:32]I mean this is all early on so I feel like I'm not rooting anything but tell me about this backstory
[3:38]I mean you painted such a clear picture of what their
[3:42]lives were like in this sort of distress and
[3:46]All just all of it the naked mom in the backyard just tell me more about this. Where did this come from?
[3:51]How did you write it and do you do you like do you freak yourself out when you're writing this because it's it's like
[3:57]Haunting all of it. Yes, I will say about Ark and Daffy
[4:01]So I had grown up playing with kids like them
[4:04]You know I grew up in
[4:06]Central and Southern Ohio and communities that had been affected by drugs and so you know playing with kids
[4:13]And we were very familiar with what it meant to find a used to wrench in the road and so
[4:18]You know going back and reflecting on my own childhood and having grown out with kids like Ark and Daffy
[4:24]I really wanted to
[4:25]infuse the story with those experiences as well and I had no women like the women in the book
[4:32]Not only in my community but in generations
[4:35]On my own family, you know my aunt and uncles and those who have left them to addiction and so
[4:42]It was really about pulling on those threads and seeing
[4:45]Time to unite the women of the story itself
[4:48]Well, it's interesting you say threads because threads also play into even the title of this book as you write about
[4:55]How that there is it there is a beautiful side of the savage side and how sometimes you have to
[5:00]You know flip over
[5:01]You know as if it's a quilt like flip over the the savage side and try to
[5:06]Thread your way to making it
[5:08]More part of the beautiful side and probably not saying that accurately
[5:12]But tell me about that and and how you came up with the title
[5:15]Yeah
[5:16]So I got good back to the relationship between
[5:18]Ark Daffy and Mamma milkweed and I really wanted
[5:22]The three of their relationships to really be the shining light enjoy the story and
[5:27]Within the story Mamma milkweed is someone who crocheted so she's
[5:32]Pershing the asking and telling Ark and Daffy that in my fair is a beautiful side and it's that much vibe
[5:39]And you especially for kids who are living in homes of addiction
[5:44]They understand that quite well. They understand you know that in my fair are these rest situations and these circumstances
[5:52]And so I really wanted this title to reflect what Mamma milkweed was saying to these two girls
[5:57]Which is that you know there are two sides to lies and her trying to teach them
[6:02]How to flip over to that beautiful side because she understood that they would be going through those rest moments in life
[6:09]And when you're trying to flip a rough moment into a beautiful moment like how do you how do you do that?
[6:15]So I love nature. That's how I find relaxation and comfort and peace
[6:20]Is you know going on walks in the woods being with wildlife. I love animals as being in my cats and the dogs
[6:27]So it's really through nature that I sort of find the beautiful side of life
[6:32]Well interesting and how did you cope as a kid?
[6:36]How did you make sense of the world seeing all this around you?
[6:39]Did you feel like this is what everybody went through or did you know did you feel sort of
[6:45]Unnerved by some of the things that you saw growing up like how did you and how did you
[6:50]Make sense of it as you got older. I think because you know
[6:54]My household wasn't affected by addiction and then the kids. I was playing with their household was
[7:00]So it was kind of seen as two sides life
[7:03]And I think when you're seeing it from a very young age, but there's also
[7:09]Almost like you're getting comfortable with it because you're going with it from such an early age and so when I would see
[7:15]You know kids I was playing with and understanding that they were you know suffering
[7:20]Abuse and kind of understanding that their household was different from mine in that aspect and
[7:26]Everything that they went through as a kid you're just learning to process everything as as you encounter it
[7:33]In terms of the true crime element and structuring the narrative
[7:37]Obviously, it was based on on real life. How did you decide
[7:41]Like how did you decide what to include what not to include how to fictionalize like how did you just approach the whole story?
[7:48]Yeah, so the characters are fiction and what's really been inspired by the crime itself is a violence
[7:56]But you know these victims and their stories that really feel like those should be told by those to move them fast
[8:01]They're family and friends
[8:02]But I did go back and research the case and as I was looking at the photographs of the women who had gone missing
[8:08]I actually recognized
[8:10]One of the faces and she was someone I had gone to school with and so
[8:15]Not even knowing that when I had known her all those years ago
[8:19]She would become someone that I would make myself familiar with again through this case. Oh my gosh
[8:25]That's crazy. It's really crazy
[8:28]How did you sort of toggle back from like what was your life like when you were writing this book compared to the intensity of writing it like when you would stop writing
[8:37]Like what was what would the rest it like how you would pull away from the computer and then what like how did you go back emotionally and
[8:45]To your regular life and like what was it like when you were writing the book? So
[8:50]When I write I write by hand
[8:52]I only come to a computer when I have to do, you know, something at the file or editing
[8:56]But I'm very much someone who prefers to write the book within a notebook
[9:01]Write it by hand. I think doing that allows you a more organic way to go with the story
[9:06]Especially like this one that deals with issues such as in the book and you know
[9:11]It's kind of the same way I purchased it the other novel as I written you know
[9:16]I've written
[9:17]over 20 to this point and on the savage side falls somewhere in the middle of that sack and so it's just
[9:24]You know learning to approach this story
[9:26]But also just find that balance with your everyday life and I find that you know
[9:31]Like I said again and gardening or nature being with the animal can really pull you out of those darker moments the story
[9:38]But doesn't it take forever to write it by hand?
[9:40]Doesn't it like how do you edit it quickly in the?
[9:42]Yeah, now that goes like you know
[9:45]I write a novel and about 30 days, you know when I do like this the middle grade fantasy
[9:51]I write a book in one to two days and so for me writing it by hand just goes
[9:57]so much quicker. I edit by hand
[10:00]And yeah, it's really the way that I find, you know, it's best approach for me.
[10:05]Some might prefer to write by computer, but for me, it's always been that approach.
[10:10]You could write a book in one to two days?
[10:12]Yes, especially with the off the right middle grade fantasy and those I tend to do one
[10:19]to two days.
[10:20]With my novels, I tend to do about 30 days.
[10:23]And then of course, you know, I say that you have your editing layers and everything
[10:26]so you're going back through the story.
[10:29]But I've always been someone who likes to build the foundation of the story relatively
[10:33]quickly.
[10:34]Don't like for to best or for too long.
[10:37]Wow.
[10:38]That is really impressive.
[10:39]Oh my gosh.
[10:40]Tell me about your work as a visual artist.
[10:42]Since I was a kid, I would write a story and I always partner with some sort of illustration
[10:48]and, you know, as it's evolved into novel writing, I continue to do that through painting
[10:54]portraits of the characters or paintings, certain scenes, I really find that that adds
[10:58]a really nice layer to the story.
[11:00]Even in this book, you know, there were some visual elements and photographs and, you know,
[11:06]it was interesting how you tied that all together.
[11:09]Yeah, I really am throughout the course of this book.
[11:11]We'll see, you know, like a spider image on a page or we'll see the photograph of the river
[11:16]with the river is speaking.
[11:18]And you know, artistic character who really loves history and there's a scene in the book
[11:23]in which her mammal milkweed is setting up her bedroom as this ancient Egyptian tomb
[11:28]and mammal milkweed has put these hieroglyphics throughout the room.
[11:31]And so I really wanted these images throughout the book to really represent the hieroglyphics
[11:35]of these women's lives.
[11:37]Wow.
[11:38]Do you have a different view on crime or preventing crime or communities under siege?
[11:44]Like what did you take away from all this research?
[11:47]I really wanted to, you know, especially with this book, try to amplify those voices or
[11:52]often laws.
[11:53]You know, when this crime first started, there were some of the community who felt like
[11:57]because these women were linked to addiction and lifestyle associated with it that they
[12:02]were somehow active for dispensing their dads.
[12:04]And I really wanted to show that these women were more than the headlines and they were
[12:09]more than those different images that was being sent to the public.
[12:12]And I really wanted to show them as mothers, sisters, and daughters.
[12:16]And you know that their lives mattered.
[12:18]Wow.
[12:19]What are you working on now?
[12:20]Well, I'm working on three different books and I do work on a book once they're written.
[12:26]I tend to edit with several books at a time, so I'm currently editing three novels
[12:32]at this time.
[12:33]I don't know how you keep that all straight.
[12:35]I can barely edit one thing, but that's great.
[12:37]Amazing.
[12:38]What's going to come out next?
[12:39]I'd like to keep that pretty close to this sleeve and sell kind of, you know, a little
[12:44]bit further in, but I can be pretty, you know, keep that pretty on secret until just
[12:50]the right moment.
[12:51]Awesome.
[12:52]And what was it like having all the success of Betty and all of your other work?
[12:56]How does that feel to you?
[12:57]I'll just want to continue to make sure that, you know, I'm writing something that
[13:02]readers continue to want to take time to journey through the pages of and just make something
[13:08]that feels like it's meaningful and a value to them.
[13:11]I think that that just remains the goal, you know, is just ensuring that I'm continuing
[13:17]to create books that readers really find value in.
[13:22]So you obviously have such a gift.
[13:24]I mean, you're so prolific and I mean, in so many different areas, when did you realize
[13:31]that this was writing and, you know, poetry and all that?
[13:34]When did you realize this was something that you wanted to, that you had a gift in and
[13:39]that you wanted to pursue professionally?
[13:41]Oh, ever since I was a kid, I mean, writing is the first thing I remember doing without
[13:46]being told to do it and as a kid, I would make homemade books, I would use cardboard
[13:52]as the covers and I would find the books with my mother's crochet yarn and I had names
[13:58]of publishing and print after my cat at the time, Sunshine.
[14:01]And so I would publish these books as a kid under Sunshine publications.
[14:07]And so I've always known for my kids that, you know, I wanted to be a writer and, you
[14:12]know, when my first book came out and I had to go through boxes of kind of things to
[14:17]get some material together from marketing and I found this envelope in the old box and
[14:23]I had sealed it and I had written on the piece of paper.
[14:27]I hoped to become a writer and write something that people went to read and I had sealed
[14:31]the envelope probably to kind of steal the kids or the wish.
[14:35]And so it was something that I'd definitely always wanted to do.
[14:39]What advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[14:41]A lot of perseverance, you know, when I first started, the first book I wanted to get
[14:47]published was Betty and so that's what I went out of the gate with and it would be close
[14:51]to 20 years before I got a publisher to that, you know, especially before things change
[14:57]with the Me Too moment and kind of perspective on female art stories when I first went out
[15:02]with Betty, you know, I was told several times to change her to a male narrator because
[15:09]they felt better or to take some of those things about the menstruation or the bras
[15:14]because it would make readers uncomfortable, you know, they didn't believe that that
[15:19]sexual abuse would happen to more than one woman because they would talk about it and
[15:23]then, you know, the Me Too moment kind of flipped the thing where people were much more
[15:27]open about things that they had experienced and I'd actually heard that so many times
[15:31]changed to a boy narrator that that was how my first published book came out.
[15:36]I looked through the books I'd already written and that one had a male lead and so that
[15:41]was how that one ended up being published.
[15:43]So I would say for all who's looking to get published, you have to stay determined and
[15:49]persevere.
[15:50]I love it.
[15:51]That's awesome.
[15:52]Who do you love to read?
[15:53]Like who are some of your favorite authors?
[15:55]I primarily read nonfiction.
[15:57]I love history.
[15:58]I love the sciences, particularly the archeological sciences, anything to do with paleontology.
[16:04]I'm in it for it, but I read very little fiction nonfiction is really kind of my
[16:09]appetite.
[16:10]Interesting.
[16:11]Well Tiffany, this has been so fascinating.
[16:13]Thank you so much.
[16:14]I'm so impressed with you and the way you write and your whole sort of creative approach
[16:18]to everything.
[16:19]And I mean, this book like in the category of books that make you feel, I mean, this
[16:24]book like it can make you a sick to your stomach, you know, in a good way and like a very,
[16:30]it was super, super powerful.
[16:31]So that's off.
[16:32]Okay.
[16:33]Okay.
[16:34]Very kind.
[16:35]Thank you.
[16:36]All right.
[16:37]Well, thanks so much.
[16:38]Oh, thank you.
[16:39]It was a pleasure.
[16:40]Okay.
[16:41]Take care.
[16:42]Bye bye.
[16:43]Bye bye.
[16:44]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[16:48]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at the Beowans and at Moms Don't Have Time
[16:51]to Read Books.
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[16:59]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact, Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[17:04]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.