Mary Lawless Lee, HAPPILY GREY: Stories, Souvenirs, and Everyday Wonders from the Life In Between
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.
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[0:58]Mary Lawlessly is the author of Happily Gray, stories, souvenirs, and everyday wonders from the life in between.
[1:05]Mary Lawlessly is a mother, writer, entrepreneur, and digital media personality, dedicated to living creatively, chasing curiosity, and exploring the world through the lens of fashion, family, travel, and design.
[1:16]While began in 2012 as a compliment to her busy job as an ICU nurse, quickly became a career of its own.
[1:22]Happily Gray, her now iconic fashion and lifestyle blog, amassed a following of over 2 million, and services a loving space for readers to connect with Mary's stories and their own,
[1:31]journeying together through life's highest lives and in betweens.
[1:34]A proud, Nashvilleian, Mary lives with her husband, Madison, their children, and great dates.
[1:40]Together they run the Happily Gray boutique and Nima, a self-care and skincare line for mothers.
[1:45]Welcome Mary, thank you so much for coming on momstone have time to read books to discuss Happily Gray, stories, souvenirs, and everyday wonders from the life in between.
[1:54]Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to chat today.
[1:57]Okay, I have to be honest, I thought at first this book was about your going gray and like learning to deal with it and being happy about it and as someone who is going gray, I'm much older than you.
[2:09]I was like, oh yeah, Happily Gray, I can be Happily Gray, I don't know, maybe I should do that.
[2:14]You do know that so many people over the years see my brand because that's the name of my original brand and they think that there's an association between the color gray, aging, or they associated with like monochromatic gray tones, I only like muted colors.
[2:31]And that's honestly a part of the inspiration, the book opens with this isn't about this or this isn't about this and it involves what the meaning behind Happily Gray really is.
[2:42]Yes, I like you do not have an easy time and like the great areas of life necessarily at first, like I have to fight against this whole black and white mentality and you're sort of giving us the runway of like, well, this is a life, you know, we can live this way.
[2:58]You have to be all or nothing all the time, so I appreciated the messaging behind that a lot.
[3:03]Thank you.
[3:04]You have such an interesting life story and it's really like you produced a memoir in photographic, very stylized form.
[3:12]It's like if a memoir were to become an Instagram post inside of a book, this is kind of what you get and it's like a compilation, a very visual interpretation of a life which is super engaging and yet just as heartfelt
[3:25]an intimate in words as like a text only type memoir in many places.
[3:31]So I love that.
[3:32]I thought it was super innovative and really awesome as a huge memoir lover.
[3:37]Thank you.
[3:38]You know, I've primarily only read more.
[3:40]I love memoirs because I can learn a lot from other people's journeys and because of my history.
[3:46]So my story is really told through pictures and over the last decade and I wanted there to be that element to some degree within this book.
[3:54]And to me, I felt like it would feel, you know, very familiar for the reader.
[3:58]And so we tried to balance it with, you know, not interrupting the words and not letting the pictures take over the words, but there being emotion through this mother graphs as well.
[4:07]That's awesome.
[4:08]By the way, I wore a messy bun on your behalf to see this.
[4:12]I was getting dressed this morning and I was like, Oh, no, wait, this is perfect.
[4:16]I'll wear a mess with and like that's like invented by the author.
[4:20]It's perfect.
[4:22]It looks awesome.
[4:23]Thank you.
[4:24]Thank you.
[4:25]So did you really, do you feel like you really invented?
[4:27]Like tell me about you inventing the messy bun and how it took off.
[4:31]You know, it's funny because it had nothing to do with a hairstyle and nothing to do with me wanting to do hair help, how to's or anything.
[4:40]It was like the messy bun came about and I talked about this in my book around the chapter of social media.
[4:47]So that I didn't, you know, it being a photograph and being a picture is being kind of the face of my grandfather ought to me.
[4:54]It never felt familiar and it still doesn't today.
[4:57]I still get camera shy.
[4:58]I still like tense up in front of the camera and turning my head was my go to.
[5:04]I would wear sunglasses.
[5:05]I would turn my head and I always just not that I'm a great hairstylist by any means.
[5:11]always like flipped by hair and it ended up being in a messy bun.
[5:15]And because people always saw the front of my outfit at the back of my head, it somehow I adopted.
[5:22]I didn't even know it.
[5:23]But I, a friend was like, do you realize that you earned this title of messy bun on Pinterest?
[5:29]And so then I started going to be when I did my messy buns.
[5:33]But it was a very accidental coincidence because it came from this, you know, motive of not wanting to show my face.
[5:40]it connect my eyes to the camera or, you know, it feel like I was doing this out of vanity.
[5:46]It was truly about the clothes and the fashion and the style, but kind of this awkward girl trying to figure out how to be in front of a camera.
[5:53]But I knew nothing, knew nothing about.
[5:55]I was like trying to kind of function in that way, but really my passion was the fashion at that time.
[6:01]Well, thank you for giving the rest of us.
[6:06]The excuse to have our hair look like this and pretended to style.
[6:11]Yours really was perfect style.
[6:14]So from the superficial all the way to the most personal ever, you wrote really openly and beautifully about your eating disorder.
[6:22]And you did it in a way where you started early on and you showed us exactly how it progressed.
[6:28]You talked about when interventions were attempted and how you would maybe get, you know, go in one direction and then veer very dramatically in another.
[6:39]And then you leave the reader with all these tips on sort of managing and dealing with things and being sort of in this place of recovery, but never recovered, so to speak.
[6:50]So tell me more about your journey, tell the listener what happened, how it started and like catch us up to where you are with it today, post to beautiful children who feel like I know after your book.
[7:04]You know, it's that story was it was never.
[7:08]It had to be a part of the book.
[7:10]It's really I think one of the most important chapters of the book and to be honest with you, I wrote the entire book without it.
[7:17]It was a really big step into vulnerability and honesty and trust to include that, but after reading the book for the first time after I turned it in my publisher.
[7:29]I realized, oh my God, one of the most important pieces of missing in this book.
[7:33]I have to tell this story.
[7:35]This is one of the biggest troubles in my life.
[7:37]And like I said in the book, I am not recovered.
[7:41]I'm in recovery.
[7:42]This is a daily journey of learning and commitment.
[7:46]And I think anyone that's ever been through the eating disorder or a struggle, but even eating disorder will tell you that there.
[7:52]It's kind of this lifetime thing that you take on and you're always learning, growing and evolving through it.
[7:58]And so it was important to me.
[8:00]One, to, you know, to step into that vulnerability because of the other women in my life that stood up and said, hey, I've been there.
[8:07]You're not alone.
[8:08]This is not totally abnormal.
[8:11]Like I've struggled in this way too.
[8:13]Honestly, you know, what has given me the courage to continue over the last 10 years to do the work to get on this to share to get the accountability around me that I need.
[8:23]And so that was, you know, I felt so convicted after I read that the book for the first time for joy, looking at that 23 year old version of myself knowing.
[8:32]the story for other women for my own strength, you know, the shame cannot survive in, in light. And so when we open up and we, and we let people in and we tell our stories.
[8:43]I believe that we're stronger and they're strength through that.
[8:46]And it's felt liberating to be able to open up and share and I can't tell you the amount of women that have come to me that have said I'm there.
[8:54]You know, I've been there. I'm here in my recovery, you know, my journey. And so it's been, you know, just life changing and empowering to have the opportunity to share it.
[9:06]And in a way, you know, that was sacred through these pages.
[9:10]I thought about sharing it on social media because my platform, my brand, my job is all based on social media, but reserving it for these pages felt kind of like the sacred place.
[9:21]And then that hopefully opening the door for more of these conversations to happen. But, you know, my, my aims were, is also linked in a lot of these other stories because it's tied to this perception that I grew up with that life is black and white.
[9:34]It's this or that you have to fit into this box. My, my journey was never kind of about necessarily having to be a certain number, a certain weight, it was all about control.
[9:45]And, you know, when you start really doing the work, really, really deep work, you start pulling back the layers and you realize like a lot of it sometimes is not even connected to body image, but a lot that can be connected to different layers in your life.
[9:58]And a lot of that for me was control.
[10:00]And thinking that I had to kind of go through life with my pen,
[10:03]my little box is checking them off of exactly what I thought
[10:07]it was supposed to look like.
[10:08]And kind of through that was this unrealistic perception
[10:14]that performed that came about.
[10:17]And it just continued and continued.
[10:19]And through as different areas of my life,
[10:23]I lost control of that was where I found it.
[10:26]And it's just such a journey.
[10:30]And I've learned so much about myself.
[10:32]And so when asked me the other day,
[10:34]did you regret it?
[10:35]And I had never been asked that question.
[10:38]And I thought, no, I mean, I'm in a way I'm thankful.
[10:43]And I have a lot of grace for that time in my life.
[10:47]And this is what this journey has taught me,
[10:48]because it's definitely been a big part of who I am
[10:52]and my outlook on things.
[10:54]And so it's a part of my story.
[10:57]And it shaped me in a way that I don't think anything else
[11:01]could have.
[11:02]And I hope that by sharing that I'm helping other women out
[11:05]there that are also going through the same thing.
[11:07]That's beautiful.
[11:09]I mean, not only do you share the huge power of your support
[11:13]groups when you did actually fine treatment
[11:14]that you found effective, but yeah, just all the,
[11:17]even just the details of it.
[11:19]And showing us how your mind went to those places.
[11:23]And I found it just so powerful, really, really powerful.
[11:26]Thank you, accountability and honesty.
[11:29]I find with this sort of work has been the two key components
[11:35]that you have to get on us.
[11:37]And you have to have accountability around you.
[11:39]And it doesn't have to be like you have to go scream and shout
[11:41]and tell 10 people it can be one person.
[11:44]And for a long time in my life, it was only one person.
[11:47]And so I think if anything, I would say where to start,
[11:51]those are two great places to start in that journey.
[11:55]Well, I like your segue throughout the book
[11:58]to an area of complete lack of control with just children.
[12:03]I have four kids.
[12:05]So I know what you got through.
[12:07]I've been there.
[12:09]It does get, I mean, it's on so tried to say it gets easier,
[12:11]but in some ways it gets harder.
[12:12]But anyway, it's true.
[12:14]I feel like once I personally was like, OK, these are the kids.
[12:18]This is what we have.
[12:19]Like I'm, I'm so not sure they are.
[12:22]And I'm just here to like, I can't shape them.
[12:25]Like there's some play out.
[12:26]Like I am here just to make sure they're OK
[12:29]and like teach them right from wrong and like do my best.
[12:32]But I can't, because otherwise I was driving myself bananas.
[12:36]I don't know.
[12:37]Mm-hmm.
[12:38]I can see that.
[12:38]I can see that I have, I have it right now.
[12:40]I have a one and a half year old and a three and a half year old.
[12:43]And I'm currently six months pregnant.
[12:45]So yeah, I can only imagine because you do.
[12:50]You try so hard.
[12:51]I think like you exhaust so much energy by like trying
[12:54]to make sure like they're taking the right path.
[12:57]But at the end of the day, I always, my husband and I talk about
[13:01]like we have to get them the right tool set
[13:03]and the right environment.
[13:05]And you know, we have to also let them be people
[13:08]and let them fall and make those mistakes.
[13:10]Because you know, I reflect back on my 34 years of living
[13:15]thus far and that those are the big moments, right?
[13:17]Like those are the moments that really, you really figure
[13:20]out how to trust yourself who you are.
[13:24]But that's so hard, especially when you're the parent.
[13:27]You know, you just want them to, you want them to succeed.
[13:30]You want them to do well.
[13:31]And so I feel like I'm interested
[13:34]to have things go with your third kid
[13:36]because I feel like the more kids I had,
[13:38]the more relaxed in a way only because it showed me
[13:42]how little is the one I did better.
[13:44]Like they are, they are.
[13:46]So in a way there's like grace in that, you know,
[13:49]because I don't, so I love that.
[13:51]Yeah, hopefully it's, I kind of wish I had known that
[13:55]ahead of time, but maybe you just have to learn it on your own.
[13:58]Anyway, so you had your kids, you have this huge brand
[14:02]and you also include your love story with your husband.
[14:06]And I love hearing how you met him
[14:07]and like the two of you are so cute together.
[14:10]Tell me a little bit about meeting Matt and all of that.
[14:14]It was wild.
[14:15]You know, I, I, well, I first talk about my divorce.
[14:18]I've married 21 in my book.
[14:20]And I also thought that was really important story to tell
[14:23]because a lot of other women go through that.
[14:25]And it definitely ties into this black and white life
[14:29]mentality.
[14:29]And you know, you're from East Texas where,
[14:32]and where that was super common.
[14:34]And like everybody was buried so early.
[14:36]And I mean, by 23, if you're not married,
[14:39]and at least have a kid on the way or the plans to,
[14:42]it's odd, it's abnormal.
[14:43]And so I grew up with that mentality
[14:46]and I married and met one of my first best friend,
[14:50]my first love thinking, you know, okay, this is it.
[14:53]And to that point, I had an experience prior to that.
[14:56]And so I learned a lot to that experience.
[14:59]And that's why I felt like that sort of is so important
[15:01]to that it was like, is a key story, key experience
[15:04]and shaping me and getting me ready to meet the person
[15:07]that I actually was meant to be a life partner with.
[15:09]And I made a nice story as bizarre.
[15:12]It is bizarre.
[15:14]We met through a friend,
[15:16]but I was talking to him for the first time.
[15:19]And I find out I'm sitting there listening to him talk.
[15:22]And it's not what he's saying, it's his mannerisms
[15:26]and it's his voice.
[15:28]And I interrupted him in sentence
[15:29]because I could tell he was from the same area
[15:32]that I was from.
[15:33]We grew up within 20 minutes of each other.
[15:35]And we've never met each other,
[15:37]met each other in Nashville 10 years later.
[15:40]We were born at the same hospital.
[15:42]That's just this bizarre familiarity.
[15:45]And our parents had dinner before we even met
[15:49]each other's parents because they had me tool for instance.
[15:52]I was like, I'm a dating this guy and he told his parents.
[15:55]So it was just, you know, it was the divine timing
[15:59]and totally meant to be we dated for seven months.
[16:02]We got married a month before our one year anniversary
[16:06]of meeting.
[16:07]And I think, you know, it was one of those things
[16:10]that my mom has always said when you know,
[16:12]and I had never understood that.
[16:15]I mean, I got married at 21.
[16:18]And I never understood like a,
[16:19]something she just says, but what I've met
[16:22]and I felt that deeply.
[16:24]I felt that familiarity.
[16:26]And in that life partner, of course,
[16:28]there's like a lot of passion and stuff.
[16:29]But you know, it was it was deeper than that.
[16:32]And so we, you know, we just end
[16:34]waste a new time because we really knew.
[16:37]And so yeah, it's been really sweet.
[16:40]Being able to build a life together
[16:43]and have the familiarity since of home.
[16:45]I think that has really grounded our relationship
[16:48]because we can each respect kind of our upbringing
[16:52]and where we came from.
[16:53]And we kind of align on this perspective of where we came from
[16:57]but where we want to go and how we want to evolve our family.
[17:01]It's amazing.
[17:02]I love stories like that.
[17:03]You know, the people just right around the corner,
[17:06]but you just never knew them.
[17:08]So it's all right.
[17:08]I mean, I didn't know if I was going to get married.
[17:10]I knew I wanted to be a mom, but like, you know,
[17:13]it's at 30 when I was, you know, just single work working
[17:18]on my career.
[17:19]It just, it's scary.
[17:20]But I just assumed, well, maybe not for me.
[17:23]And so that was totally turned upside down
[17:26]in the matter of like one night.
[17:27]Basically, you also wrote really nicely about that.
[17:30]and like what it felt like when all your girlfriends
[17:32]were having their babies and second babies
[17:35]and you had gone off on another track
[17:38]and really trusted yourself to leave something
[17:40]that wasn't right.
[17:41]And I'm also divorced and remarried by the way.
[17:43]Not to just keep talking about myself,
[17:45]but I feel like we had a lot of comments.
[17:47]And you know, it's not always so easy
[17:50]to make those decisions.
[17:52]And so yeah, you have this, I don't know.
[17:55]I think after that, there's this new perspective on life
[17:57]that's off that like, you know,
[17:59]anything can change in a minute type of thing.
[18:01]Yeah.
[18:02]And you know, I wouldn't go into that divorce
[18:04]was incredibly hard and difficult
[18:06]in a dark or period of life,
[18:07]but I wouldn't have been able to make the decisions
[18:10]I made.
[18:11]Had I not walked through that time?
[18:13]I mean, I really think that that's those,
[18:17]those are the darker moments those lessons
[18:19]are so pivotal to be able to then get to what you're going.
[18:23]So I always try to encourage and also encourage friends
[18:28]and then also remind myself when I am going through those
[18:31]times in life to like stay in them, stick with them,
[18:34]trust them, because there's reason
[18:36]and there's clarity that those moments are gonna provide,
[18:40]you know, totally.
[18:43]Tell me about your whole lifestyle brand
[18:46]and how this grew and how you're running it
[18:49]and evolving and being an entrepreneur
[18:53]in addition to everything else.
[18:54]You know, I kind of wondered,
[18:56]transparently, transparently I wondered in those worlds.
[18:59]So my background's in nursing.
[19:00]I worked at seven years in critical care nursing
[19:04]at Vanderbilt in the Texas Mountain Center.
[19:06]I love nursing.
[19:07]I loved critical care.
[19:08]I loved the challenge and the pace.
[19:11]But I also had a passion for writing.
[19:13]I have been writing and journaling since I was 11.
[19:17]Everyone asked me how long this book took to write
[19:19]and I share that it was about a year and a half,
[19:23]but really I think I've been writing this book
[19:25]since I was 11 years old.
[19:26]Like in my bed under the sheets of the flashlight,
[19:30]that's like really what it feels like to me
[19:31]because I've always loved a journal of to write.
[19:34]And so that's why I started,
[19:35]I randomly started a blog 12 years ago about fashion.
[19:40]That was a creative outlet for me.
[19:42]It felt like, you know,
[19:43]something I was doing for myself outside of work
[19:45]and this stressful intense heavy career at times.
[19:49]And so I just started writing about fashion.
[19:51]This was prior to Instagram's Pinterest on such a platform
[19:55]and influencer blogger was not a term.
[19:58]I certainly didn't say.
[20:00]that was not the motive.
[20:02]But I paid my friend $50, we created a site.
[20:05]And it just kind of, the timing of it,
[20:09]I was really lucky in that sense that it was,
[20:13]I kind of grew up with these sort of major platforms.
[20:16]And over the last decade, that brand
[20:19]has evolved into a lifestyle brand
[20:21]in different areas of content,
[20:23]depending on kind of like,
[20:24]it's kind of follow the progression of my life
[20:26]as I bought my first home.
[20:29]I started talking about in two years.
[20:30]As I was like, had the money to pay for skincare,
[20:32]I started talking about what skincare I liked,
[20:35]relationship when I got married.
[20:37]And then most recently, the coming of other.
[20:40]And I, you know, have always looked for the path
[20:44]to connect my past and nursing with this digital world
[20:48]that I kind of wondered into.
[20:50]And really becoming a mother was that,
[20:53]it was really the bridge to connect in those experiences.
[20:58]And my husband and I created a skincare line.
[21:02]It's a pregnancy postpartum skincare line.
[21:04]We're launching kids this year in a few months.
[21:08]And really it's been, that's been my greatest passion.
[21:11]The brand is called NEMA.
[21:12]And I'm just so excited to evolve and grow this brand.
[21:16]It really allows me to kind of pull in my,
[21:19]my science, my math that I use as a nurse
[21:22]and the nurturing side, the patient care
[21:24]that I love so much,
[21:25]and kind of embody that in this brand.
[21:28]And, and especially through motherhood,
[21:30]which I feel like is, I don't know,
[21:31]one of the most critical times that we need support
[21:34]around us.
[21:36]And I learned that through my first,
[21:38]and I couldn't get my hands on the products
[21:40]that I felt like I needed that time.
[21:42]So, and I was just like so shocked by it
[21:45]when we started doing all this market research,
[21:47]clean, effective products that would just
[21:50]transparently about their brand
[21:52]and who they were in their ingredients.
[21:55]And I couldn't find it.
[21:55]And I started having these conversations
[21:57]with other women and other moms.
[21:59]And so that's been a very exciting new adventure
[22:03]that we've been working on.
[22:04]And we also have a store in West Nashville,
[22:07]wherever in Nashville.
[22:08]I was, I was there not so long ago for a book of an hour,
[22:12]but yeah, I'll come back.
[22:13]Okay.
[22:14]Well, we, we have an awesome little store
[22:16]in that in West Nashville,
[22:17]we're part of L&L marketplace.
[22:19]It's kind of set up like Chelsea Market.
[22:22]A lot of small businesses.
[22:23]And we just, you know, just shot Happily Gray
[22:26]has been an exciting new venture
[22:27]at a huge learning curve.
[22:29]I don't have experience in retail,
[22:31]but we have a brick-and-mortar and an e-compenseness.
[22:35]So yeah, it's evolved and grown in a way
[22:38]that I never expected it,
[22:39]but I love being an entrepreneur.
[22:41]I love the autonomy.
[22:42]I love the excitement.
[22:43]I've come at the unknown.
[22:45]And being able to work with,
[22:47]I work in an office with nine other women
[22:48]and my husband, he's the only male in the office.
[22:52]And it's exciting.
[22:53]I just like getting to work with other women
[22:55]and, you know, being able to create
[22:57]and kind of dream together and work hard.
[23:00]We work hard, but we also, you know, play hard
[23:03]and really enjoy being able to kind of create together.
[23:07]I love that.
[23:08]Yeah, I'm opening a bookstore actually next month.
[23:10]It's my first brick-and-mortar.
[23:12]Yeah, attempts myself.
[23:14]So I know what you're saying about getting into it.
[23:17]I also work with all women here.
[23:19]It's really fun.
[23:20]We have like, with all these brands,
[23:21]we have a team of 17 women.
[23:23]And my husband, who is often having lunch with us.
[23:26]So yeah, it's really fun.
[23:28]I was just thinking, you should come.
[23:30]We also put on these retreats around authors and books
[23:33]and everything.
[23:34]And we have one coming up in Charleston.
[23:35]I feel like you would have so much fun.
[23:37]And you could even give out samples
[23:38]of your skincare line to the attendees
[23:41]or be like a partner.
[23:42]I don't know if you have any interest.
[23:43]Please, please send me the info.
[23:45]I also love Charleston.
[23:46]We haven't been in a bit, the food in Charleston is so good,
[23:50]but I would, yeah, please send me the info.
[23:52]I also love being a more about your bookstore.
[23:54]I have this obsession with bookstores.
[23:57]And I always, when I visit New City,
[24:00]I always go bookstores,
[24:01]because I think there's like this warm thing,
[24:03]coziness about them.
[24:05]And I just, there's like this homey sense of comfort.
[24:10]And so that makes, that's very, very exciting.
[24:13]Yes, I'll send it to you once when we get off.
[24:15]But yeah, I literally have my contractor
[24:17]for my house made my store.
[24:18]So I was just like, just do the same walls as our house.
[24:21]That's awesome.
[24:23]Well, Mary, thank you so much for coming on
[24:24]to talk about Happily Gray and your whole journey.
[24:27]And I hope we find fun ways to work together.
[24:31]I'm really inspired by you.
[24:32]And I really love all your honesty and all that.
[24:35]So more to come.
[24:36]Thank you so much.
[24:37]Hopefully I'll see you in Charleston.
[24:39]Yes, that'd be fun.
[24:39]Okay, bye-bye.
[24:43]Thanks for listening to this episode
[24:44]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[24:46]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram
[24:48]at zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[24:51]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowans.com
[24:54]and sign up for my virtual book club
[24:56]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[24:58]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[25:01]for the Sound Editing.
[25:02]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[25:04]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.