Cassie Holmes, HAPPIER HOUR: How to Beat Distraction, Expand Your Time, and Focus on What Matters Most

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[0:58]Cassie Holmes is the author of Happier Hour. How to beat distraction

[1:02]Expand your time and focus on what matters most. This was guest hosted by Allison Petaki

[1:08]Cassie is a professor at UCLA's Anderson School of Management where she is an award-winning teacher and researcher

[1:14]Holmes's work on the intersection of time and happiness has been widely published in lead academic journals and featured in such outlets as

[1:21]NPR the economist the New York Times the Wall Street Journal the Atlantic the Washington Post and more

[1:26]Happier Hour is her first book Allison Petaki here with Cassie Holmes the author of the incredible

[1:34]book Happier Hour how to beat distraction expand your time and focus on what matters most

[1:42]Cassie thank you so much for chatting with me today

[1:46]No good morning. Hi Allison. It's a treat. Oh the treat the treat is ours. I can assure you

[1:52]and the humor is not lost on me that this is a book Happier Hour about how to optimize our time

[2:00]for what matters most for a podcast called moms don't have time to read books

[2:09]Listeners who are primed and ready for this topic

[2:15]The good thing is that there's also the audio version so while you know moms are driving kids around

[2:22]You know I'm the folding laundry. You can also listen to it

[2:26]Perfect bundling activities, right? Well, we'll get into that. So this is an incredible book

[2:32]It's an incredible tool. It's a recent it's a resource that I think people will just relish having

[2:38]Thank you so much for writing it. Can you tell us how and why you came to write Happier Hour?

[2:46]Yeah, well, I mean, it sort of was born out of a day that I'm sure many can empathize with

[2:54]earlier in my career when I was a professor at Wharton

[2:57]I had just one of those crazy days I'd gone up to New York to give a talk and my presentation

[3:04]was sandwiched in between these back-to-back meetings and then I had this like colleague dinner

[3:09]And I was rushing to reach and catch the very last train that would get me home to my

[3:17]Four-month-old and my husband who were back in Philly

[3:22]And I did make the train, but I remember sitting on the train that night looking out the window as everything

[3:28]This sort of darkness was whizzing by and I was like, I don't know if I can keep up between the pressures of work

[3:37]Wanting to be a good parent wanting to be a good partner wanting to be a good friend

[3:41]The never-ending to-do list and pile of chores waiting for me at home

[3:46]There simply weren't enough hours in the day to do it all let alone to do any of it well

[3:51]Let alone to enjoy any of it along the way and I was like

[3:58]I now know what I was feeling was time poor and I've gone on to study this and it's prevalence

[4:04]Wasn't just me on the train that night. It's not just as in that you know particular day

[4:10]We find that nearly half of Americans feel like they don't have enough time moms in particular

[4:16]Working moms in particular and it's bad because it has these negative consequences which I was feeling on the train

[4:24]That night just stressed overwhelmed and unhappy and I remember thinking like

[4:31]The answer is obvious what I should do is quit my job and move to a sunny slow pace

[4:37]I went somewhere where I'd have a whole lot more time because then I would be happier

[4:42]But in fact that is an empirical question

[4:46]I was like, would I be happier?

[4:47]We had a whole lot more time are people who have endless hours to spend exactly how they want

[4:53]Are they happier and our research actually

[4:57]Suggests that no that's not the case. Yes

[5:00]Having too little time is bad, but we actually found on the other hand

[5:04]There's such thing as having too much time where

[5:08]When people have

[5:10]Days all the hours of their days with nothing to show for they feel

[5:13]Unproductive and that undermines their sense of purpose and satisfaction

[5:17]And so actually in the pattern of results that we found

[5:21]There was sort of like a flatness of so too little is bad too much is bad

[5:26]But in between what we realized is is it's not actually how much time you have

[5:32]It's really how you invest the time you have that leads to happiness and so I was like, okay

[5:38]Instead of quitting my sort of dream job as a

[5:42]Tanya truck professor

[5:43]I will shift my research agenda to try to figure out empirically

[5:48]How should we be investing the hours of our day so that we feel

[5:53]Happy and fulfilled

[5:56]Looking back on our days looking back on our weeks as opposed to depleted and exhausted and dissatisfied

[6:03]And so that's what led me to do the research and then I was like

[6:09]Nobody reads academic

[6:11]journal articles

[6:13]But there's a lot of insights here

[6:14]So I'm like I want to just help sort of spread this to folks

[6:18]So I developed a course that I've been teaching to our MBAs for the last few years and seeing the impact

[6:24]It's hot on their life when I was approached to write a book

[6:27]Since not everyone can take my class. I was like yes because there are these empirically

[6:33]Based learnings. There are these assignments and exercises that we can do

[6:37]Anyone can do moms can do

[6:41]To um feel happier in their days

[6:45]Oh my goodness

[6:45]I'm so thankful to you that we all basically get to do like a crash course in your class now because that

[6:51]That's really what it felt like and it is you didn't you didn't quit your job

[6:55]But you did you did move somewhere sunnier

[6:57]That was important to you, right?

[6:58]You did make it while you were writing this book not to an island

[7:01]So right not to an island and yes, there is a beach closer by than when I was in Philly

[7:07]So I did um we moved to

[7:09]Now I'm not at UCLA. I'm a San Diego and so moving back to Southern California and sunshine

[7:15]But I think

[7:17]Beyond while I am so happy here in addition to the sunshine and being back closer to home

[7:24]It's actually I've been implementing all of these learnings that I've discovered in my work

[7:31]And so I live it and like yes my life is busy my days are hectic

[7:37]But I am happy and satisfied. Yeah, and you make a very strong case in this book

[7:43]Why being happy and satisfied is such a worthwhile

[7:47]Goal? Why it matters to put emphasis on being happy in your life

[7:52]Can you talk about that?

[7:54]Totally and it's it's not indulgent nor frivolous and sometimes that term happy

[8:01]On particularly for as moms who sort of put everyone else before us

[8:06]It's like it might even seem selfish to care about our emotional well-being

[8:11]But there is tons of data to suggest just how important it is

[8:17]For us as individuals who feel happy when we feel happier

[8:22]We are more creative. We are more adaptive and our problem-solving

[8:27]It makes us more motivated and all that we set out to do

[8:30]It increases our even confidence and all that we set out to do as well as it makes us nicer

[8:35]So to all those people around us who's interests were putting before ours

[8:41]If we're not taking care of our emotional well-being

[8:44]Then we're not gonna show up very nicely

[8:48]And it sets them to and so there it is absolutely important and I actually think that

[8:55]The I used to have to motivate happiness more

[9:00]particularly in a business school context

[9:02]But I it doesn't require quite as much motivation now that the last couple years have taught us

[9:08]just how

[9:10]important our emotional well-being with

[9:12]Anxiety rates as high as they are depression rates as high as they are burnout rates as high as they are

[9:19]We are all recognizing individually as well as

[9:23]Within organizations and firms

[9:25]But also at a societal level just how important our emotional well-being is

[9:31]and

[9:32]What is great to know

[9:35]Is that the research also shows that we have some control over happiness? There are things that we can do

[9:43]Yes, some of our happiness is not

[9:46]Open to control. We have our inherited disposition. You know, you're sort of natural

[9:52]personality

[9:53]That has a some influence as do circumstances that we don't have a whole lot of control

[10:00]But what we do have control over is how we spend our time, what we think about and do in our day to day.

[10:08]And there is research, including the research that I've done to inform.

[10:14]Okay, so how should we be spending our time? How should we be thinking about our time so that we can feel more joyful in our days and more satisfied about our lives.

[10:25]So how should we be? What did you find? What did you uncover? How should we be spending?

[10:30]You talk about, you know, you're teaching MBA students how to make money but that our time is actually our most valuable resource in terms of the quality of our life.

[10:39]So how should we be spending our time? Yeah, and while I leave it to my colleagues to teach their MBA's how to make money, I teach them how to spend their time so that they're happier and will live careers and lives that are fulfilling.

[10:55]So I think that the goal is sort of like the overarching framework maybe is to maximize the amount of time you spend on worthwhile activities.

[11:05]So those activities that bring you joy that feel fulfilling, minimizing the time you spend weight that feels wasteful.

[11:15]And also while you're spending your time on those worthwhile activities on those joyful activities not being distracted, paying attention so that you're actually getting the happiness from that time that you're already spending.

[11:29]So the question is, well, what are those worthwhile activities? And there is research that sort of points to, on average, what activities lead to greater happiness.

[11:40]But I think more hopefully are the exercises that lead you each individual to identify for themselves.

[11:50]So those activities that are the most worthwhile and fulfilling for you.

[11:54]One of the exercises that I think is so helpful is the time tracking exercise and so this is over the course of a week and there's a helpful worksheet on my website.

[12:07]How are you spending your time, what activity are you doing and not broadly like I'm with my kids or I'm at work, but more specifically.

[12:16]What are you doing with your kids, what's that activity that you're doing with your kids, what project are you doing for work, so that.

[12:24]And then, in addition to writing down what you're doing over the course of the week, as you come out of that activity for each half hour you rate on a 10 point skill.

[12:35]How do you feel how did that activity make you feel how happy satisfied fulfilled so that you got at the end of the week you have this amazing personalized data set that you can look for yourself.

[12:48]What are those activities that got your highest ratings, so what are your happiest activities and something you can look at is what are the commonalities across your happiest activities, you might pull out for instance.

[13:02]I really love one on one time so like the research says socializing.

[13:08]What are your happiest activity, what type of socializing and there's individual differences in what are those activities that really make you feel a genuine sense of connection and belonging.

[13:21]So you can identify those maybe it's like oh my gosh, I tend to be happy when I am outside across my activities, I tend to be outside, which is also in line with research that shows that we're happier outside.

[13:33]How do you see what are those least happy activities, as well as just how much time you're spending across these various activities.

[13:41]So you can identify like holy cow, I had no idea that I was spending 10 hours each week on social media.

[13:51]And that is one that it's like it's always a surprising thing because it's like oh, just check for a few minutes here, those few minutes turn into like a half hour those half hours, add up to like a dozen hours over the course of the week and the ratings if you look at your own ratings you're like that's like a four out of a 10.

[14:12]And it's like oh my gosh, I'm spending so much time on this thing that's not even necessary not even that fun.

[14:19]Yeah, I don't feel like I have time to spend on the 10 or 9 or 10 type activities like meeting up where the girlfriend for drinks or dinner.

[14:31]So that information alone is really helpful to okay going forward, how do you given that you now know what types of activities are even specific activities that are so important and worthwhile for you.

[14:46]And then there will be other everything else will fill, but also it's helpful for you to recognize which actually we already alluded to there are just some activities that aren't so fun, but that you do have to do like the chores like driving around.

[15:08]Whether commuting to work or driving your kids to school and sometimes how can you actually one strategy to make those activities that feel sort of like a waste of time that you're just trying to move through.

[15:21]How do you make them more fulfilling something wasteful feel more worthwhile will you bundle it with something another activity that is worthwhile so like actually when people feel time poor.

[15:34]People complete the sentence I don't have time to one of the primary things they say they don't have time to do, which is very in mind with the name of this podcast is I don't have time to read for pleasure right.

[15:49]If you bundle listening to an audio book every time you're in the car then every week you get through a book and so it turns that time that you're trying to get through.

[16:04]And also in the car actually listening if you have kids in the car, we have a lot of fun listening to audio books together for and then there's other strategies of turning something that's a routine into a ritual so you could even make the car ride with your kids something that's just sort of a mindless routine.

[16:26]Yeah, yeah, the time tracker exercise you put in the book is so helpful and so illuminating and you also include for the reader sort of benefit as an example your own sample of your week and you went through and you got very granular too.

[16:46]That was so so helpful and amazing, but you also talk about the importance of being present in what you are doing and being present when you are with other people or you're doing an activity and you talk about the fact that a lot of us are walking around distracted for like a full half of our lives like 40 40 something percent of the time people admit that they are distracted.

[17:10]What do we do about that Cassie how do we how do we help ourselves to be less distracted and to be more present in these moments and as a result in our lives.

[17:21]Yeah, and it's such an important question because yeah, as you noted the researchers that we are distracted about 47% of the time and also we are less happy when we are distracted, which is bad.

[17:37]And then also when you're recognizing that you are spending time in ways that actually are really potentially joyful, but if you're not paying attention then you're missing the happiness that's right there.

[17:50]And one way to sort of make this really salient and poignant is if you reflect back on your past week or two weeks even what was an experience that brought you incredible joy.

[18:04]Often times when people think about that it sees really simple moments like and there's such simple everyday moments that we expect they will continue to happen every day.

[18:18]And so we take them for granted of course we are distracted and yet if you were to count how many times you have left to do that activity.

[18:30]So an example from my own life and in the book as you know that there was a lot of stories from me as well as Anna does for my students mostly to bring the empirics to life to make them really feel concrete and relevant it's so good.

[18:48]And one of the examples for my life is my morning coffee date we once a week my coffee date with my daughter, Lida.

[18:58]And this is something that's super regular we do it once a week.

[19:02]And yeah it's really joyful because it is 30 minutes whereas just the two of us hanging out like a mess the busyness of everything, this is just time.

[19:15]She has our hot chocolate I have my flat white we have our questions we're at a coffee shop and it is just this time that we are together.

[19:27]And I calculated so it's regular so it could be like, you know, of course we'll always have our coffee dates, but no, I calculated so the first thing is how many times you've done it in your life that's far and I calculated, including when I was on maternity leave and I will bundle her at.

[19:44]You know, throwing this stolen go to the coffee shop because that was like my way of sanity and then adding those with our weekly coffee dates since we've had about 400 coffee dates together so far, then I calculated how many will have in the future knowing she's seven now.

[20:00]In about five years, she'll probably rather go to the coffee shop, whether friends than me and she's going to go off to college and then probably live across the country.

[20:08]And I calculate we have probably about 230 coffee dates left together.

[20:14]The percentage we have only 35% of our coffee dates together left.

[20:20]That's less than half and she's only seven.

[20:24]So what does that lead me to recognize?

[20:30]Well, it makes me prioritize that time carve out the time that no matter how busy a week is.

[20:37]Yes, we are going to go to the coffee shop together.

[20:40]So we make the time, but I think even more so what it makes me do is pay attention.

[20:48]This time is precious.

[20:50]It is not so every day that it will continue to happen every day.

[20:55]These are these moments that are the like our life.

[20:59]And when you ask me, like am I happy?

[21:01]I'm like, yes, why?

[21:03]Because I have is really a really wonderful relationship with my daughter.

[21:08]I also do with my son and my husband.

[21:10]So this is just one of the examples of how this plays out.

[21:14]But these 30 minutes bring me such intense joy.

[21:18]And so like honor copy shop of my phone goes away.

[21:22]Right.

[21:23]That to do list that is always cycling through the back of our minds as moms.

[21:28]Right.

[21:29]That gets quieted because this is our time together.

[21:34]So in terms of, so one thing is turning something routine into a ritual.

[21:41]Recognizing that our time is in fact limited draws our attention to it makes us see for it more.

[21:48]Recognizing how precious making us pay attention.

[21:51]Another just really practical thing is putting the phone away.

[21:56]Yeah.

[21:57]The research shows that simply having a phone on the table when you're dining with friends makes you enjoy that experience last because you're more distracted, the mere presence of your phone.

[22:09]You're not even not being on it.

[22:11]So.

[22:12]Doing these things that like putting your phone away to remove the distraction, like mentally carving out that time that this is time for me to be with my daughter.

[22:24]That also removes the distractions.

[22:27]Unbelievable.

[22:28]Yes.

[22:29]And you talk about, you know, you're talking about meaning and what makes life meaningful and you give this great sort of zoom out where you say when we have these encounters with our own mortality or the finite nature of life.

[22:44]It prompts us to sort of put everything in a focus and think.

[22:47]It takes a bird's eye view of life, you say, and think about how you want the eulges to be at the end of your life and that that you should live every day sort of informed with that as one of your guiding lights, you know, that our time here as you said is limited and we do want to get the greatest meaning from life.

[23:05]Yeah.

[23:06]It's super important. So while the title of the book is happier hour, it is actually the perspective, taking our research shows that when you take that broader perspective of time thinking about your years and your life overall instead of hour by hour, what that does is it helps identify what is important.

[23:27]And on the eulogy exercise, which as soon as they're like, this is super depressing what I thought we were in a class about happiness and here you are having us think about our death.

[23:38]And I'm like, no, this is actually not a exercise about death. It's about life.

[23:42]What life do you want to live at the end of it.

[23:45]How do you want to be remembered what legacy do you want to live and articulating that highlights what matters to you.

[23:53]What are your values. What are your goals and thinking about your life overall.

[24:01]How you want to live the years of your life that then informs how you spend your hours.

[24:10]So it does start the decisions that we make our hour by hour, but it is informed by what we want in our lives overall.

[24:22]And there are also sort of pieces or exercises and the book that helps you uncover what does matter.

[24:33]So easy to forget and make decisions not in line with what matters because we're just reacting to what feels urgent.

[24:41]And what these are the incoming requests and it's reactive as opposed to proactive and making sure that we prioritize and spend time on those things that matter.

[24:54]So what that broader time perspective does is it makes people spend in line with what's important to them, not just what feels urgent.

[25:05]And interestingly, the times left exercise that I just shared what that highlights is that something that is absolutely important that time for me 30 minutes with my daughter.

[25:19]It's so easy for it to get neglected because it doesn't seem urgent.

[25:25]But when you count the times left, it highlights just how urgent these really simple pleasures like that's the joy in our life is these little moments that are right there in front of us that were so.

[25:39]And it's not like it's bad that we're bad people by not noticing and being distracted.

[25:46]I mean, there's lots of their psychological tendency to, ironically, adapt explains why we're subject to this.

[25:54]But then how do we make choices and sort of not trick ourselves but remind ourselves to pay attention to notice those joys to be in the moment,

[26:08]be with the people that were with while we're with them as opposed to distracted and missing out on the happiness that's right there in the time that we're already spending.

[26:21]So beautiful, so important, so inspiring and just helpful to have you reminding us of that and knowing Cassie Holmes how mindful and purposeful you are about your time and your phone and social media and distractions.

[26:37]How can readers get in touch with you connect with you follow you.

[26:43]Unfortunately, I sort of practice what I teach and I'm not really on social media. I am on LinkedIn and so I know it's frustrating because it's harder to find me.

[26:56]But I do have a website.

[26:59]www Cassie and the Holmes dot com and there you can find out more about the book as well as the research that underlies the book and where I am.

[27:09]So it's a good landing page, but I'm really happy that happier hour is out in the world. So you, you know, folks can get the insights right there.

[27:18]Wonderful. Yes. And, and what advice would you give to an aspiring writer.

[27:24]Carvel the time, make the time that couple of hours in the day close the door, put your phone away, close out of the email.

[27:34]Maybe, you know, put a pretty thing of flowers next to you to make it feel like a joyful space and make the time if it's important to you.

[27:44]Make the time and beat the distraction and focus on what matters most with happier hour by Cassie Holmes Cassie. Thank you so much for writing this important and inspiring book.

[27:56]Awesome. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks, bye.

[28:00]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books.

[28:04]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books.

[28:09]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.

[28:16]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact, Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.

[28:20]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.