Linda Sivertsen, BEAUTIFUL WRITERS: A Journey of Big Dreams and Messy Manuscripts—with Tricks of the Trade from Bestselling Authors
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.
[0:07]Thank you so much. Called moms don't have time to read books.
[0:10]It is a daily podcast, 365 days a year, and each day we talk to an author about all of the things related to their career,
[0:18]their book, their life, and more in 30 minutes or less because who has time?
[0:22]I am now an author myself, although I wasn't when I started this podcast, and you can get my new memoir,
[0:28]bookends, a memoir of love, loss, and literature, wherever books are sold starting July 1st, and my children's book prints is charming.
[0:36]You can learn more about me at Zivi Owens.com, but really you're here to learn more about the authors and that is what we're going to do.
[0:43]Also, be sure to check out all the other podcasts in the Zcast Podcast Network.
[0:48]You can learn more at zcastnetwork.com and definitely check out those shows as well.
[0:58]Linda Sybertson is the author of beautiful writers, a journey of big dreams, and messy manuscripts with tricks in the trade from best-selling authors.
[1:05]She has clips in these books from some of the most successful authors of our times, including Elizabeth Gilbert, Dean Coons, Terry McMillan, Sheryl Strade, Stephen Pressfield, Jenny Lawson, Deepak Chopra, Martha Beck, and more.
[1:18]She hosts BookMama and the beautiful writers podcast.
[1:22]She is the co-creator of the beautiful writers podcast and hosts it.
[1:27]She loves sharing her story of the many hilarious outrageous and practical things she did to launch her best-selling writing career.
[1:33]Linda's titles have won awards and hit all the lists as an author, co-author, in fact, famous magazine editor and ghostwriter, but her driving force has been to publish sustainably.
[1:43]Now, even optimistic enough to believe in magic, she's on a mission to save forests via her role as a forest steward, chip, council, ambassador.
[1:51]When she's not fostering literary love matches on her beautiful writers podcast, which, by the way, I was on with Sylvia Vasquez, which was so much fun.
[2:00]She can be found mid-wifing books at her Carmel or virtual writing retreats.
[2:05]She can be found on the back of a horse, running with her dogs, or on her ranch in Scottsdale, Arizona.
[2:11]Welcome, Linda. Thank you so much for coming on mom's and her time to read books to discuss your book.
[2:16]Beautiful writers, a journey of big dreams and messy manuscripts with tricks of the trade from best-selling authors.
[2:23]Thank you, Beth. It's so good to be here. I adore you.
[2:26]Bookends, you know how much I love bookends.
[2:29]Well, I had the best time on your podcast with Sylvia. That was so much fun.
[2:34]Oh my gosh, one of like a true highlight, honestly, it was so special. So anyway.
[2:39]I mean, I love that episode so much.
[2:41]Okay. Tell everybody about your book. When did you write it? Why did you write it?
[2:46]You know, there are so many reasons why I think people write books. I'm on a mission.
[2:51]You know, I've got all sorts of things, charitable things, all sorts of, but the gist of it to be really like when I just go to the core of it.
[3:00]I feel like my life has been so dramatic and so up and down and so hard in so many ways and yet incredibly magical.
[3:11]And when I remember that I magical life flows so much better.
[3:16]And so I've been sort of on a mission for my career to remind people of their magic.
[3:23]And then I think books as you and I've discussed are the best way in the world to be reminded of that.
[3:29]And so I just can't wait to get to the page every day. I just love to write and I love to share stories that remind us of our potential and the beauty in the world.
[3:39]I love it.
[3:40]Well, you did such a wonderful job of weaving in your own story with all of this advice.
[3:46]You even laid it out. I mean, you have so much. You could have like put it in the body of the story.
[3:52]That must have been a huge decision, but instead you do like blocks of quotes from literally every author under the sun.
[3:57]Many of you have had on my podcast. It was like nice to see all of these people again, but so many who I haven't.
[4:03]You have Saba to hear who just won the National Book Award and I was right.
[4:08]I was there. She was the table next door sobbing. I was sobbing. Everybody at my table is crying.
[4:15]I was crying at home. Oh my God.
[4:17]I know I was crying at home. She and I had become friends. I love podcasting because you get to know people and then maybe come to your buddies and you care about them. You love their work and I was sobbing too.
[4:28]I mean, that book all my rage was just beyond.
[4:32]Maybe talk a little bit about when you thought about sharing your story and including the writers.
[4:39]How you decided to structure it this way. How you decided which authors to bring in and then I want to and then I want you to share your own story with listeners because it's so interesting.
[4:48]Well, so hard to figure out format.
[4:51]And I mean, I felt like I was drowning, carrying this book like a thought in a body bag just around my ankles for years just dragging her around. I could never ever stop thinking about her.
[5:03]She started out as a divorce memoir because when my husband of 19 years bailed.
[5:09]I was so devastated that I couldn't hold information in my mind and I have all these self help buddies right leaders in the field because I've been a self help author and goes right or forever.
[5:19]They would call me and they would give me the world's best advice and five minutes later it was out of my brain. So I started just recording writing down everything everybody told me.
[5:29]And then I thought, wow, a lot of people in my position like probably a million people a year going through divorce don't have self help people on speed dial.
[5:38]And I thought, I wonder if what I'm going through could be valuable. So I wrote a divorce memoir.
[5:43]And my agent and I went to New York, she was there, I met her there and we met with publishers.
[5:48]And everybody was like, you have all these struggling writing stories and they're funny as hell, but why are they in the divorce memoir.
[5:56]And I'm like, well, because I'm trying to show how hard it is being married when you're two creatives and you're like, clawing your way to the middle.
[6:04]And so some of the publishers were like, Oh, why did you give us all of that in one book.
[6:10]And others were like, oh, your husband's so bad boy cute. Can we look at him online. I'm like, no.
[6:16]So it was so crazy making, Zippy. I was so frustrated. And so I put the memoir away gave it back to the muse to God, whatever. I was like, okay, I'm done.
[6:26]Like I've been so obsessed with this story for so long.
[6:29]Like you take it. I am just going to put my feet in the grass. I'm going to drink tea and I'm going to watch clouds.
[6:37]And so that's what I did for like six months. And I swear to God, I was a happiest person I've ever been.
[6:42]And you know, everyone got me back. My best friend was like, you're so much more present. And my son was like, mom, we're doing good.
[6:49]So it was really, really nice.
[6:51]And one day, I was reading Cheryl Stray. It's tiny beautiful things. I was in bed. I'll never forget it was 4am.
[6:59]And I saw I was like, Oh, if I thread the wisdom from these best selling authors who I idolized from my podcast.
[7:08]If I thread in their wisdom, when I'm telling the arc of my story. So like when I'm struggling to get an agent.
[7:15]Well, how did Anne Patrick get an agent or how did Danny Shapiro get an agent. She is one of the funniest stories I've ever heard.
[7:22]She did like everything wrong and got the biggest agent in the world. And it was like, Oh, if I thread their little crazy making space plants amongst my face plants.
[7:32]And if I, if I thread in their wisdom amongst my face plants, like maybe that could be really entertaining. And so I started just plotting it out and putting it together. And I fell in love with her.
[7:43]And I think that's just the key for anybody writing you guys. We know when something's not right.
[7:48]Like I knew with the memoir right before I got on the plane. I read the whole thing.
[7:54]And I went, Oh, like, I don't love her. I loved pieces of it. But I didn't love the whole thing.
[8:01]And I called Martha back and I, because she had read it and she loved it. I was like, where the, I don't, it's not ready. It's not ready. She was don't go. Don't go.
[8:09]I mean, it's like, what do you mean don't go because they won't get you. You're too woke. I don't do it.
[8:15]And anyway, it was so nice to see that she had a desk in the after all. It was just a different format. And I had to be patient.
[8:24]Sometimes books are squirrely mother offers.
[8:28]I mean, you know, you had the same thing with both ends right. It was iteration after iteration over same same timeline.
[8:37]I mean, basically every chapter of years that I was reading. I was like, Oh my gosh, me too. Oh my gosh.
[8:43]Same thing with book ends. I was like, we are soul sisters separated.
[8:50]We'll talk about your jobs and the dog sitting and like all the things starting out. I actually was referred.
[8:59]Why did I, I was even talking about it. I was like, no, I know the person who was dog sitting. Oh, somebody else is writing a memoir about writing a novel about like a dog sitter and I was like, no, no, no, you have to read this because they don't know.
[9:12]I think over the years I've seen novels nonfiction books movies about dog walkers and dog sitters and I think it is just a really cool weird career. I mean, I remember when
[9:23]he first sat there and then Julia Roberts broke up. I've never told this story anywhere, but they broke up.
[9:29]And key for and it was like entertainment tonight and all those tabloid news shows were covering it every night like it was like the menendez murders. I mean, it was such big deal.
[9:39]And I took care of Jack and Dave who were their border colleagues. So, so I would go into the house Julia's no longer there. I'm there, you know, Keith verse on set.
[9:50]And I'm there. And I'm like so tempted to open their drawers and their cabin like I want to and because you know, I'd walk in there be piles of
[10:00]pictures and I'm like, so tempted to look at that stuff.
[10:03]Like you can't do that, right?
[10:04]That's so unethical.
[10:06]But I think that's why there's so many people
[10:08]right about it because you're living a reality show.
[10:11]I was watching Kefur Sutherland.
[10:13]I was watching Kirk Douglas.
[10:15]I was watching these huge icons
[10:17]have really dramatic personal lives
[10:20]that you don't see on TV.
[10:22]And sometimes they cry to you.
[10:24]They're in their bathrobes.
[10:25]You're coming to go.
[10:26]I don't think I don't love her walks.
[10:28]And these people are staring their soul to.
[10:31]And you're like, huh, this is kind of creative.
[10:34]So anyway, I loved being a dog-bucker.
[10:37]I never thought I was going to do anything else.
[10:39]I always wanted to be a writer as a kid.
[10:42]Never thought I was smart enough.
[10:44]I was like the jock fun girl.
[10:46]I didn't party.
[10:47]I wasn't a partier, but I have high natural serotonin.
[10:50]And I apologize to anyone who doesn't
[10:52]because the few times I've been depressed in my life,
[10:55]it sucks.
[10:56]And I just have always been kind of high on life.
[11:00]And so I was an athlete, not a student.
[11:03]I thought I would come home and study.
[11:05]I would study like ancient Egypt and astrology
[11:09]and all this stuff in my parents' library.
[11:11]That's the stuff I would study.
[11:13]And so I was in the bottom third of my graduating
[11:16]class in high school.
[11:18]That's where yours and my story are like, right.
[11:21]Okay, fine.
[11:21]Oh my God, if I got to class on time,
[11:25]and if I paid attention, I did OK,
[11:27]especially in the environmental stuff.
[11:29]Environmental engineering, I got an A, community
[11:32]psychology, I got an A, the rest, who knows.
[11:35]But so when I had a dream that told me
[11:38]that I was supposed to rate all these books
[11:40]and gave me titles and format, and basically
[11:44]I just took dictation for six months.
[11:46]I was fired up because I was like, damn, hot damn.
[11:49]I guess I can do it.
[11:50]I mean, I still had to fight those internal bullies.
[11:54]And I love those stories.
[11:56]But yeah, I was determined.
[11:59]And you literally had six books come to you in a dream.
[12:02]Yeah.
[12:03]And the crazy part is, as you know,
[12:05]from the storyline of beautiful writers,
[12:07]as I'm struggling to get the first one done, which I thought,
[12:10]oh, it'll be on Oprah in six months.
[12:12]People I like every other newbie is super grandiose
[12:16]and not at all realistic.
[12:18]All these other titles, I keep seeing
[12:20]other people release them.
[12:22]So I had like this really panicky urgency
[12:25]because I'm so invested in the first one.
[12:27]And I thought, well, is somebody going to get her too?
[12:31]So then what did you do?
[12:33]No, I was so driven by my mission.
[12:36]My mission was I had this grandiose belief as a little kid.
[12:40]My mom was a tree hugging environmentalist.
[12:42]She worked at Stanford.
[12:44]She was telling me about global warming when I was five.
[12:47]And I'm old now.
[12:48]So people, I don't think it's fake.
[12:51]So I was on this mission as a little kid.
[12:54]I was like, I'm going to help save trees.
[12:56]I'm going to be like, I'm going to be a tree hugger
[12:58]who doesn't kill trees if I ever become a writer.
[13:02]And boy, that one's hard to figure out.
[13:04]Like, wow, the thing you love the most in the world
[13:07]kills the thing you love most in the world.
[13:10]And so now, you know, my last book,
[13:12]Generation Green was on recycled paper.
[13:13]And then this one is on for a stewardship council paper.
[13:16]So that just makes my soul so happy.
[13:18]So because I was driven by a bigger mission,
[13:21]and this is I think the overarching lesson too
[13:24]about the book, whatever your mission is, you know,
[13:27]like you're so connected to kids
[13:29]and you have so many great charitable things that you do.
[13:31]Whatever your mission is,
[13:33]find a way to be connected to your creativity.
[13:37]And then all the naysayers, all the rejection,
[13:41]all the BS that happens because guess what it happens
[13:43]for all of us, you just go,
[13:46]yeah, whatever, it's like a TC fly.
[13:48]You don't even, it just bounces off you.
[13:50]And you're willing then to do the work.
[13:52]You're willing to like study and become a beautiful writer
[13:56]when you're not initially, when your grammar is all effed up.
[14:00]Well, there was so much, you were so hard on yourself,
[14:03]honestly, in this book.
[14:04]And like, I feel like you continue to think,
[14:07]like, this is so unlikely just because of school.
[14:10]You know, like, I think you were just
[14:12]so down on yourself for so long.
[14:14]And yet it didn't matter.
[14:15]Like, ultimately you just rose above,
[14:17]but I wanted to be like, stop.
[14:19]You're like, what do you just stop?
[14:21]You're being said, me and Deere's up.
[14:23]But anyway, that's so funny.
[14:24]I thought I was really nice to myself.
[14:26]That's an interesting, I'll go back and look at it
[14:28]and go, I wonder what Zippy saw.
[14:30]Because I really just felt like I was blindly
[14:32]walking in like so grandiose to situations that where I just,
[14:37]but I do think you're right,
[14:38]I definitely am self deprecating.
[14:40]That's for sure.
[14:40]Yes, for sure.
[14:41]Can we now fast forward?
[14:43]So talk about the book that you, your first book,
[14:45]truly, truly charm, did I get that, did I say that?
[14:47]Life charm, life charm.
[14:48]Life charm, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.
[14:49]Yeah.
[14:50]Talk about that, what that experience was like,
[14:52]and then I went and end up at your divorce.
[14:56]So fun.
[14:57]You know, the first book that came to me in the dream.
[15:00]So when they all landed, I was in the bottom of my closet
[15:03]scribbling with a flashlight.
[15:04]It didn't want to wake up the family.
[15:05]It was right out there.
[15:07]And I loved her initially because I got to interview people
[15:11]that I was already connected to through my dog walk in business.
[15:14]So the first person I interviewed was Paul Williams,
[15:17]who had one in the Academy Award for a Star Wars Born
[15:20]for Evergreen with Barbara Streisand.
[15:22]And we were living at his house just before that.
[15:25]My son was actually born in his guest bedroom, long story.
[15:28]But I went to Paul and I said, I've had this dream
[15:33]and I'm supposed to interview all these luminaries
[15:36]about how they succeeded, spiritually, mentally,
[15:40]environmentally.
[15:41]And I said, can I interview you?
[15:43]He's like, sure.
[15:44]And I like you, as soon as I turned on that microphone,
[15:47]my whole world changed.
[15:49]Because I realized that we don't ask our friends
[15:52]and loved ones often.
[15:54]The really, really important questions.
[15:56]And suddenly this sparkling world opened up for me.
[16:01]I had lived, my husband and I had lived at Paul's house
[16:04]for two years.
[16:05]And I thought I knew everything about it.
[16:07]He and I cried on the carpeted stairs for hours
[16:10]about past loves and all sorts of craziness.
[16:12]And we were living there because he had just gotten
[16:15]over a drug and alcohol problem and had gone to rehab.
[16:19]So we were taking care of everything all his estate
[16:21]while he was gone.
[16:22]And then when he came back, he was like, oh, guys,
[16:24]can you stay?
[16:25]Well, like sure.
[16:26]So at any rate, it just taught me
[16:29]that you got to ask the real questions
[16:32]and get deep with people.
[16:34]And everybody has a magical story.
[16:36]Everybody has so much to share.
[16:38]And just totally changed my life.
[16:41]Amazing.
[16:42]Can anybody be a writer?
[16:44]What do you think?
[16:45]Anybody who wants to write a book?
[16:46]Can they write a book?
[16:47]So I give these writing retreats in Carmel
[16:50]and people will call me and they'll say,
[16:52]I don't know that I'm very good.
[16:54]And I say, I don't give a shit.
[16:55]I don't care.
[16:56]I said, if you're passionate, if you have a vision,
[17:00]we'll find you a ghost writer.
[17:01]We'll find you an editor.
[17:03]Like everybody needs help.
[17:04]Myself included, I'm too close to my own stories.
[17:07]I have a mentor that I worship.
[17:09]And she gives me the world's best advice.
[17:11]So everybody needs help.
[17:14]So it doesn't matter if you can't,
[17:15]if you can't write a sentence.
[17:17]As long as you've got the passion,
[17:18]you've got the idea.
[17:20]Yes, you can learn to get way better,
[17:22]way better and fast if you're committed.
[17:25]And if you need help, it's everywhere.
[17:27]I mean, something like 50 to 75% of books are ghost written.
[17:31]I shouldn't say that, but that can't be true.
[17:34]I'm an ex-ghost writer.
[17:36]Some people say that the stats are higher.
[17:38]Yeah, really?
[17:39]Yeah, and there's only,
[17:41]the last time I checked,
[17:42]there were only like 5,000 professional ghost writers.
[17:45]It's why I quit because you end up getting so busy,
[17:48]you can't breathe.
[17:49]I was a ghost writer too,
[17:51]but I told you this, but you are a good one.
[17:53]Yeah, cause we're a separate thing.
[17:54]I know another thing.
[17:55]I know, I know so much.
[17:57]Okay, so anybody can write a book.
[18:00]They all they have to do is take your class.
[18:02]I love the confidence.
[18:04]I love helping people,
[18:06]but there's a lot of ways to write a book, Google it.
[18:09]Just start.
[18:10]So what is the biggest thing they get some people's way?
[18:14]Oh gosh, fear, fear that they're not good enough.
[18:16]And you know, I have this motto that I live by
[18:20]and that is if you have the ache, you have what it takes.
[18:25]So I don't care if you're afraid, I'm afraid.
[18:27]Everybody's afraid.
[18:28]I hate doing these interviews at first,
[18:31]like not once we're on air.
[18:32]I love this, but getting me here, hate it.
[18:35]I mean, I have all sorts of fear,
[18:37]but it doesn't matter because we're all terrified.
[18:40]Every single one of us, I mean, in the book
[18:43]when I was interviewing people,
[18:44]it was shocking to me.
[18:45]Cheryl Stray, Neo Varnalos, everybody's scared.
[18:48]Salva, everybody is scared.
[18:51]And so you just get beyond that
[18:53]and you just put your ass in the chair.
[18:55]Amazing.
[18:57]Let's go to the divorce piece of your life
[18:59]and what you had in the divorce memoir
[19:02]that did not make it into this book.
[19:05]All work.
[19:06]Well, actually, so you are gonna be in book two.
[19:10]Book two is, so this book is idea,
[19:15]actually prior to idea because it's like schooling
[19:18]to school or not to school
[19:20]or making a living before it pays to write.
[19:24]And then idea to publication.
[19:26]So that's the scope of book one.
[19:29]Book two, which I'm about halfway through.
[19:31]I don't know when I'll release her
[19:32]because I like having a balanced life for a change.
[19:35]But book two is everything that follows publication,
[19:38]which is a humongous arc, right?
[19:41]That's like networking and PR and book two and teaching
[19:45]and all the things.
[19:47]So you're in that book because now when I interview people
[19:51]now, I ask questions that really pertain to that.
[19:53]And of course, things like time management,
[19:55]and stuff will always be in the mix.
[19:58]But, so.
[20:00]The divorce is the second half.
[20:03]Yeah.
[20:04]So what can I tell you that isn't in this book?
[20:06]It gets more dramatic.
[20:08]So book one, this book ends with me publishing that book
[20:12]that you see me struggling my first book as a nobody
[20:15]in living in the woods in Noah'sville to achieve.
[20:20]But two, it's just come out.
[20:22]Lisa Gibbons does a whole talk show on the book.
[20:25]It's like a big deal.
[20:27]CNN's running things, but I'm working at Trader Joe's.
[20:29]I'm scrubbing toilets.
[20:31]So I'm coming out with my toilet cleaner
[20:35]and a guy at Trader Joe's, because didn't I just see you on CNN?
[20:40]Yesterday?
[20:40]And I'm like, yeah.
[20:42]So that's how book two starts.
[20:45]And it just gets a lot more dramatic.
[20:47]And it's still fantastically fun.
[20:50]I love writing this stuff.
[20:51]I love the chaos.
[20:52]I think it's like drama, as I said to somebody the other day.
[20:57]drama is not great for real life,
[21:00]but it's wonderful for stories.
[21:03]And is this where you write at your desk here?
[21:04]It's beautiful.
[21:05]Back down.
[21:06]And yeah, I write everywhere.
[21:08]I could write in a barn I can write outside.
[21:11]So I definitely move.
[21:12]I'm like Mary Carr.
[21:13]She talks about this cute thing in the book
[21:16]about how she just takes her computer like 14 hours
[21:19]in a day and just plops down all over the place.
[21:22]And that's me.
[21:22]I'm always plopping down.
[21:25]But this is my center, my hub.
[21:28]Do you read all the books by the authors who you interview?
[21:32]And if so, 100% and that's why y'all,
[21:36]you and I have are also very different.
[21:39]I only do one show a month.
[21:41]If that, like, you know, since I was on book deadline,
[21:44]I only did a couple, a year.
[21:47]So I was doing it every month for five years, six years.
[21:51]And I produce, you know, they take me 50 hours to produce.
[21:54]Like it's a lot.
[21:55]Oh my gosh.
[21:55]Because I count that as reading time.
[21:58]I read them.
[21:59]I read sometimes all their stuff.
[22:01]I watch everything I can.
[22:03]So by the time we're sitting together,
[22:05]I feel like I'm Nicole Kidman in the hours.
[22:08]And I've just spent, you know, 72,000 years
[22:12]getting into the headspace of you, Zibi.
[22:14]My, I'm playing you as an actress.
[22:17]So when I interviewed you, I had spent 40 hours on you.
[22:22]Oh my gosh.
[22:23]No, I'm obsessive.
[22:24]And that's how I edit books, too.
[22:25]It's horrible.
[22:26]It's horrible.
[22:27]It's amazing.
[22:28]No, it's wonderful.
[22:30]That's probably why it was like my favorite podcast ever.
[22:33]So yeah.
[22:34]Yeah, that's sweet.
[22:36]That means a lot.
[22:39]Oh, okay.
[22:40]So what are you reading now?
[22:42]What are you loving?
[22:43]What are you reading not to prep, but just for fun?
[22:45]Okay, so growing joy.
[22:48]So sweet.
[22:50]It's about plants and how they help you evolve.
[22:53]I have three books on my bedside.
[22:56]Actually, this is one.
[22:57]I didn't think I was gonna want to get into this one.
[23:01]It's a dark streetland.
[23:02]I'm hooked.
[23:03]I got, I'm halfway in and I'm hooked.
[23:05]Those are the only two I can remember right now,
[23:07]although I have a stack by my bed.
[23:08]An absolute stack always just like you.
[23:11]It's ridiculous.
[23:12]Yeah.
[23:13]The hardest part of my job is that it's probably the same
[23:16]with you, I'm guessing, is that I can't read all the things
[23:19]I wanna read.
[23:20]Yeah, not enough time.
[23:23]So tell me about your crazy busy life
[23:25]when you're not writing and podcasting and prepping.
[23:28]Oh, okay.
[23:29]Okay, so listen to this.
[23:29]So I knew that you and I were gonna be speaking
[23:32]at 8am my time.
[23:34]I'm in Scottsdale.
[23:36]So I woke up at five because my husband has been
[23:41]on a horse trip.
[23:41]So I knew he was rolling in around six
[23:44]with a couple of the horses.
[23:46]And I wanted to be like, hi and connect with my husband.
[23:49]I haven't seen him in a week and I'm super excited.
[23:51]So I got it at five.
[23:52]Well, instead of showering and getting ready to see my husband
[23:57]and maybe prepping for you and all that,
[24:00]I had to go to the online auction for Wild Horse,
[24:03]saving wild horses here in Arizona,
[24:06]had to bid on that, had to call London and try to get money
[24:09]to save these for 14 mayors and babies,
[24:13]hashtag Alpine Wild Horses, everybody,
[24:16]that are being rounded up here in Arizona
[24:19]and some of them are going to kill buyers for me in Mexico,
[24:22]which is really lovely.
[24:23]And this is a herd of wild horses I've watched
[24:26]for a couple of years.
[24:27]I mean, out in the wild in the most gorgeous place
[24:30]you can imagine.
[24:31]So it is catastrophic.
[24:33]So that is what I spend most of my time on
[24:36]is saving wild horses from slaughter.
[24:39]And then I'll do another podcast today.
[24:41]And then I have three clients that I'm taking to agents.
[24:44]So I'm getting their stuff prepped and ready.
[24:47]And I have family coming in tonight.
[24:49]So it's all that big sense for Thanksgiving.
[24:52]So it's a mad, crazy life.
[24:54]Oh my gosh.
[24:55]Wow.
[24:56]And I just came in the garage for my husband to surprise him.
[24:59]First of all, it's so sweet.
[25:03]I mean, a bean scot still, by the way,
[25:04]in May, May 8th to 10th, I think,
[25:07]for the mom 2.0 conference.
[25:09]You should totally be a part of that.
[25:11]Okay, whatever I'm in, sign me up.
[25:13]I don't know about it, but I'm there.
[25:15]And if you want to come right,
[25:17]we'll go out in the forest across the street,
[25:20]and just be wrangles, wranglers.
[25:23]I mean, no, thanks.
[25:24]But I would love to see you anyway.
[25:26]Not, not wriggling.
[25:29]No, no, not wrangling.
[25:31]No, I used to, I rode for a little bit when I was a girl,
[25:34]but then I got so allergic to horses and hay.
[25:36]Oh, you know what?
[25:38]And everything related that I would just like
[25:40]sneeze the whole time, but.
[25:41]I was too.
[25:42]And I found a lady in Los Angeles.
[25:44]And in one session, she cured my horse allergy.
[25:47]I'll talk about that later.
[25:48]Yeah, we should put that in the show notes.
[25:50]Yes, seriously.
[25:51]I knew that it was magical.
[25:54]Most allergic to my dog, but anyway,
[25:55]I don't let that stop me.
[25:58]I hear you.
[25:59]Okay, Linda, thank you.
[26:00]This book is so helpful.
[26:02]It's so wonderful hearing even about,
[26:04]I know we always talk about,
[26:05]oh, authors get rejected,
[26:07]but like the stories here were so concrete
[26:09]and just sort of career affirming life affirming, I don't know.
[26:13]And all the different parts of the business
[26:16]that the authors talk about and you talk about
[26:19]and all the motivation that you weave in so nicely
[26:21]and it's a really fantastic package.
[26:23]So beautiful writers love it.
[26:25]Thank you, Zilby.
[26:26]I adore you.
[26:27]I adore everything you're up to.
[26:28]I'm so happy to be in your orbit.
[26:31]Thank you, you too.
[26:32]All right, have a great day.
[26:33]Okay, have fun with your husband.
[26:35]Bye.
[26:35]Okay.
[26:36]Bye.
[26:38]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[26:40]Don't have time to read books.
[26:42]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[26:44]at Zibioans and at Moms.
[26:45]Don't have time to read books.
[26:47]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibioans.com
[26:49]and sign up for my virtual book club
[26:51]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[26:54]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[26:55]In fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[26:58]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[26:59]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.