Sarah Zachrich Jeng, THE OTHER ME
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.
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[0:58]Sarah Zakrich-Jang is the author of The Other Me.
[1:01]This was guest hosted by Alicia Fernandez-Maranda, who is one of our Zivi books authors and host of the podcast quit your day job.
[1:08]Sarah grew up in Michigan and always had a flair for the morbid and mysterious.
[1:12]For her dad's 35th birthday, she wrote a story entitled The Man Who Died at 35.
[1:17]She had a brief career as an aspiring rock star before she came to her senses and went back to school to become a web developer.
[1:25]Sarah lives in Florida with her family and an extremely hyper-rescue dog.
[1:29]The other me is her first novel.
[1:30]Okay. Hi, everybody.
[1:32]And I'm really, really excited to welcome Sarah Zakrich-Jang to the podcast today.
[1:38]Sarah, thank you for coming on.
[1:40]Moms don't have time to read books.
[1:41]Thanks for having me. I'm so glad to be here.
[1:44]And we're here to talk about The Other Me, which I really just have to tell you.
[1:50]I completely devoured it in one sitting.
[1:53]I was just saying to Sarah before we started recording that we got two copies and I gave one to my mom who read it before me.
[1:59]And she was like constantly texting me, asking if I had read it yet because she wanted to talk about it.
[2:04]She was so into it.
[2:06]But then when I started, I just was gripped completely gripped from like the very first chapter.
[2:12]So well done for creating such a propulsive narrative and a novel that really made me think about this kind of, you know, other other life, other me's.
[2:24]Thank you. Glad you liked it.
[2:26]So why don't you start by telling everyone on the podcast who maybe hasn't read the book yet. What the other me is about.
[2:33]The other me is a speculative thriller and it's about an artist named Kelly who lives in Chicago.
[2:39]And on her 29th birthday, she that her friends opening art opening when she walks through a door and suddenly finds herself at her own surprise birthday party at her hometown in Michigan.
[2:50]And she stumbled into this alternate life where instead of leaving her hometown and going to art school, she married a guy from her high school and settled down with him.
[3:00]So pretty early on as soon as she gets over the initial shock, she finds that she could remember things from both of her lives, the one in Chicago and the one in Michigan.
[3:09]So she needs to figure out how this happened, why it happened and if it can be reversed.
[3:15]And the book has elements of domestic suspense and it's not really a science fiction, but it has elements of that as well.
[3:22]And where did you where did this idea come from? What was your inspiration?
[3:26]So it's kind of a long progression. I spent my twenties playing in bands and I hadn't written in many years.
[3:33]We're going to talk about that by the way. I don't really want to know about that.
[3:37]Yeah. So yeah, and I had eventually I got, you know, grown up job. I had a kid. I needed a hobby that wouldn't keep me out until two in the morning every night.
[3:47]So I I've been writing fiction for several years and then around 2015 I have this idea for an original novel and I was thinking about, you know, this classic wish fulfillment tale of guy meets girl, guy loses girl, guy moves mountains to get girl back and usually it's framed from the male point of view and it's very romantic and positive.
[4:10]And I wanted to write it from the woman's point of view. She how she has, you know, her whole life going on and what happens went to that when you know this guy kind of swoops in and takes over her narrative.
[4:23]And I was also thinking about that that talking head song once in a lifetime where he says like this is not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful way. So that was kind of the seed.
[4:33]And so first I need to know what what were you writing fan fiction about what are you fan of.
[4:39]Well, so it's kind of a smaller fandom. So I don't want to be judged on that writing. So I keep that.
[4:45]Okay. Okay.
[4:47]Cause you know, I mean, everyone has their old writing that they never want anyone to see and it's still out there. But I'm just like pretty obsessed. I've interviewed a couple people for.
[4:57]And I have never written fan fiction. But now I'm like, why haven't I written fan fiction because it really does. It's not so dissimilar to your book actually. It's basically taking characters that you love and putting them in a totally different situation. I know that's a rule. So that is great. Like it's so great way to get started.
[5:17]So can we talk about your music career? What do you do you play an instrument? Do you sing?
[5:22]I will now I say that I'm retired. Okay.
[5:25]I don't play anymore. I mean, I played drums in a band for a long time. I've played bass guitar. I song I sing back up. I played keyboard and a hard core bands.
[5:37]That was my first band.
[5:38]Yeah, that's so bad.
[5:40]So I mean, I kind of moved around. It was mostly like local level fans like we never toured or anything, but it was a lot of fun. It was basically like hanging out, screwing around with my friends.
[5:50]And then you became a web developer as well.
[5:53]So you know, that still am.
[5:55]Yeah.
[5:57]Do you you've got this like very right brain and very left brain kind of, you know, these two paths. Do you do you see that? Do you see it like that or do you see them as kind of, you know, two sides of the same coin when you're sort of developing or coding and then you're writing or making music.
[6:13]Yeah, I mean, I think there's creativity in both aspects of it. I mean, I'm a Libra so nice to balance.
[6:21]Yeah, like I feel like like my, my day job right now is kind of both aspects like design and code. So I get both sides of my brain get to work out. And as well. And in writing a novel.
[6:34]And you have to like keep track of all these different thought points and you know, reveals and who knows what at what time. And in this book, you know, I had spreadsheets and diagrams and all kinds of stuff.
[6:45]So that was as well as being creative. It's also kind of analytical.
[6:49]What was the biggest surprise for you and kind of moving from writing fan fiction to putting together your own full-length original novel.
[6:57]Oh my gosh. I mean, I, like you do have to do a lot of characterization and fan fiction, like you have to know your characters really well, but creating a character from the ground up multiple characters.
[7:09]I mean, it's a lot of work and it's a lot of fun too. Yeah, because I did like all the character backstories and everything. And I rewrote this novel so many times. So a lot of that is character back story that didn't make it into the novel, but informed the character.
[7:25]So that that was quite a bit different from writing fan fiction because you kind of have this in fan fiction. You have this baseline where people already know kind of the characters going in.
[7:36]So you have to introduce readers to strangers pretty much when you're writing your own fiction.
[7:43]And when you were writing about Kelly in particular, who I think is really, she's really well formed. She's very human as a character in a way that not everything she does, you think, oh, this is the, you know, she's making all the perfect decisions in her life.
[7:57]Did you, did you approach that more from like you, you know, you kind of had her fully formed in your head. Did you go on this journey with her?
[8:05]What was your approach to writing Kelly like?
[8:07]Right. I wanted to make sure that she made bad choices.
[8:13]Yeah, look, I wanted to like put some ambiguity in there like she's, she arrives in this new life and she doesn't know what's going on. But as she finds out more and as she gets more into it, there's like some ambiguity and ambivalence there like there are compensations to this new life that she has.
[8:29]And I wanted her to kind of feel doubt. And, you know, she makes mistakes. She in her life in Chicago as an artist. She's maybe not, you know, helping herself as much as she could.
[8:42]And I just wanted to make her real like that. And I also wanted to make her as, you know, far away from myself personality wise as I could.
[8:50]Right. So she's like extroverted. She's kind of this intrepid person who goes and investigates. Like if I were in that situation, I probably just be like, Oh, you know, I'll sit back and see what's going on.
[9:03]This new life is fine.
[9:04]Yeah, you know, a hot husband and I pass. Yeah. I mean, probably not. But
[9:11]I would have been quite as active as her because, you know, when you're writing a novel your characters can't just sit there.
[9:17]I just, I love it. So one of the questions I want to ask you. So my my book is coming out next year. It's a memoir.
[9:24]But it really does explore me looking back on all of these other paths that could have taken in my past and then actually going to do them via a series of unpaid internships, which get read all about in February.
[9:35]But I think we've all imagined this concept of another life. What if you hadn't broken up with that boyfriend. But if you had taken that job that you didn't take, you know, if you had a chance to go back and like relive a different version of your life, would you do it?
[9:52]Like when I look back on my life and the choices that my choices have led me, I mostly feel really because, you know, I've.
[10:00]made bad choices like everyone else.
[10:02]And I've been very lucky that they didn't affect my life
[10:05]permanently.
[10:06]So yeah, I feel like I ended up where I'm supposed to be.
[10:10]I mean, if I could go back, I'd probably, you know,
[10:13]I'd be terrified that I'd end up in a dark place.
[10:16]So I wouldn't want to go back.
[10:19]Yeah, you don't want to end up on the darkest timeline,
[10:21]it's true.
[10:22]But your book sounds amazing.
[10:23]I can't wait for you that.
[10:24]Oh, thanks.
[10:25]Not as not a plug, but I do just.
[10:27]I think like, I would like to go back for like a day
[10:32]or a couple of days maybe, not forever,
[10:34]but I would be so curious to see what would be the same, right?
[10:38]And this is also something that comes up in your book,
[10:41]like what is the same about this character
[10:43]who has kind of gone down this different, you know,
[10:45]path in the space-time continuum.
[10:47]And I do think it would be so fascinating to find out
[10:51]what things would just, they would always be part of you,
[10:53]they would always be part of your story
[10:55]and the things that just absolutely wouldn't.
[10:56]So it's definitely a novel that kind of spurt
[10:59]all of these different questions about,
[11:03]I think everybody's own life in themselves.
[11:04]I mean, what, you know, the book's been out now
[11:06]for a bit, what's the reaction been like from readers?
[11:09]A lot of people have, you know, told me something
[11:12]to the effect of what you just said, like it made them
[11:14]think about their own choices and, you know,
[11:16]their own paths that weren't taken
[11:18]or that they wish they had taken.
[11:20]Yeah, and it's so cool to see the reactions people have.
[11:24]Like some people are really into the friendship
[11:26]aspect of it, like between Kelly and Lenea.
[11:29]I love it.
[11:30]So I wanted to make that, you know, a little bit poignant
[11:31]with, you know, her losing her best friend literally.
[11:34]So it was, I was happy to see that that hit
[11:37]with some people.
[11:38]But yeah, it's just, then, you know,
[11:42]I'll get emails from people and they'll just make my day.
[11:44]So.
[11:46]And can you tell us a little bit about the publishing process?
[11:48]So how did you get published basically?
[11:52]And kind of what was that like for you?
[11:54]Yeah, so I, you know, I took a few years
[11:57]to write the novel and rewrite it.
[11:59]And then I entered Pitch Wars, the Twitter program.
[12:04]Oh, cool.
[12:04]So yeah, well, I did get into the tours.
[12:07]But the author that I sent my manuscript to,
[12:11]she was like, you know, gave me some really good feedback
[12:13]and kind of introduced me to an agent that she knew
[12:17]and the agent, you know, had me revise and resubmit the novel.
[12:22]And then, and then she offered me a representation.
[12:24]So the agent that became my agent.
[12:26]And after, you know, a few more revisions,
[12:29]we took it out on submission editors.
[12:31]And my experience is like super not typical.
[12:36]And I found out in the process of writing my second novel,
[12:39]how not typical it is, but I was on sub for 72 hours.
[12:43]Wow. It's amazing.
[12:44]Yeah.
[12:45]Yeah, I was, we were all like really floored.
[12:47]So I'm, you know, it was like May 2020.
[12:50]And she sent the book to editor, my editor on like Thursday.
[12:55]And then we got an offer on Monday.
[12:57]And I'm like standing in my driveway on the phone
[12:59]with my agent, like watching my daughter roller skate,
[13:02]everything locked down.
[13:03]So it's kind of surreal anyway.
[13:06]And I was like, what is happening?
[13:08]Like, is this is this really going on?
[13:10]Is this my life right now?
[13:11]So have I been gone through a doorway and got it to her?
[13:15]How does that happen?
[13:16]That'd be right.
[13:17]I actually, yeah.
[13:19]So it was just really crazy.
[13:21]I was just going to say that like your story
[13:24]about kind of watching your daughter roller skate,
[13:26]I do find having kids being a parent.
[13:29]And then like these kind of really exciting things happen.
[13:32]And like 10 minutes later, you're just like knee deep
[13:35]in someone's like disgusting muddy laundry
[13:38]that you're having to like soak before it goes in.
[13:40]Or, you know, these real like juxtapositions
[13:42]in your life that happen when you're really keeps you humble.
[13:46]And you know, and people think that writing is very glamorous
[13:49]and you know, lots of elements of it are, I suppose.
[13:52]But most of it is just not really.
[13:55]Has that been your experience as well?
[13:57]Yeah.
[13:58]I mean, I'm, you know, for me writing is like
[14:00]sitting hunched over my computer at six in the morning,
[14:04]like looking like a gremlin.
[14:05]So what's your process?
[14:07]Like kind of balancing writing and the software developing
[14:11]you do and like how do you really discipline about it?
[14:13]Or do you just kind of write whenever?
[14:15]I mean, I get up every morning at five
[14:18]and I write for, I try to write for two hours.
[14:21]And it doesn't always come out.
[14:23]Like all, you know, do something like research,
[14:25]write, plot, whatever.
[14:28]And then when I'm in deadline,
[14:29]I have to do a little more at night after work.
[14:31]But usually it's just that two hours in the morning
[14:34]and I know the weekends.
[14:36]And do you, I mean, do you find yourself
[14:38]could I would be absolutely, there's no way
[14:40]I could do anything at the morning much less be creative.
[14:44]But I guess it's probably nice to have quiet time
[14:45]where there's nobody kind of passing.
[14:47]Yeah. Well, I started when my daughter was a lot younger
[14:50]when, you know, she would need more during the day.
[14:53]So I couldn't like by the end of the day, I was just fried.
[14:57]So I was like, okay, I'm going to start going to bed
[14:59]at nine, 30, 10 and get up at five and just do that.
[15:02]So I became a morning person more forcibly.
[15:05]All right, that's pretty impressive.
[15:07]That's good to know that people can do that.
[15:09]I had, I had to read someone for my,
[15:11]the podcast that I run on Zebes Network
[15:12]called Quit Your Day Job, who's a travel agent this week.
[15:15]And she was saying she gets up at four every day,
[15:19]works for like a couple of hours,
[15:20]and then goes back to sleep.
[15:22]Oh, wow.
[15:22]It's like an insomniac and she just does that.
[15:24]And I was like, all right, that's what it works.
[15:27]Yeah, that's a method.
[15:28]Well, I guess you're right.
[15:29]So tell us a little bit about this second novel
[15:31]that you're working on.
[15:33]So it's another, you know, speculative thriller.
[15:35]It's about two women who were best friends in college
[15:39]and they had a device that lets them switch bodies
[15:41]to each other.
[15:43]So I already love it.
[15:44]I already love it.
[15:45]Thank you guys.
[15:46]So that gets them into some trouble
[15:48]and it, you know, that trouble ends their friendship.
[15:52]And then years later, their lives intersects again.
[15:54]And it's kind of about what happens then.
[15:57]And it's kind of like dark, freaky Friday
[15:59]meets the times that's terrific.
[16:01]Yes.
[16:02]Dark, freaky Friday, I love it.
[16:05]How are you approaching this book differently?
[16:06]Kind of given everything you learned going through
[16:08]at the first time?
[16:09]I mean, you know, I will say that book two syndrome
[16:13]is 1,000% real.
[16:15]And I mean, I guess it's,
[16:17]it hasn't taken longer objectively
[16:19]than writing the other me,
[16:21]but it feels like it has because, you know,
[16:23]you're under deadline.
[16:24]You have people waiting on you.
[16:27]You have people giving feedback.
[16:28]Who and you, there's a lot more pressure.
[16:33]So it's harder in that way.
[16:35]And I definitely have approached it differently
[16:38]from the writing standpoint too.
[16:40]Like I, you know, I think I plotted this book a lot more
[16:44]meticulously before I wrote it.
[16:46]Like with the other me, I just kind of wrote and rewrote
[16:48]and plotted very loosely before I wrote.
[16:51]And then like fixed everything after.
[16:53]And with this book, I've been a little more meticulous,
[16:56]but it's still in edits.
[16:57]So we're still working on it.
[17:00]Do you have a, do you have a pup date for that?
[17:02]Do you know what it's coming up?
[17:02]Not yet.
[17:03]No.
[17:05]And would you kind of write or kind of,
[17:09]do you have any curiosity to explore different genres
[17:11]or do anything like totally different with your writing?
[17:14]Yeah.
[17:14]I mean, I would totally, I've been reading so much romance
[17:17]since 2020, but I would totally go in that direction.
[17:21]I know it's super hard to break into,
[17:23]but I'm just kind of, you know,
[17:26]I'm thinking about some ideas.
[17:27]So we'll see.
[17:29]I feel like I could see that actually seeing your writing style.
[17:32]Like I could totally see that you've got a romance novel
[17:35]buried within your writing to come out.
[17:37]And yeah, and fan fiction is like very romance-heavy.
[17:40]So one of the best things about it,
[17:43]I definitely need to get into reading more fan fiction for sure.
[17:47]Do you have like a community?
[17:49]How do you kind of find community
[17:50]in what you do as a writer?
[17:52]So yeah, I mean, I have a group chat.
[17:55]The, a bunch of authors from my publisher kind of got together
[17:59]on a group chat and we still talk all the time.
[18:01]It's really, it's been really like sanity
[18:05]it's kept my, kept me sane through this whole process
[18:08]because we can kind of talk to each other
[18:10]and commiserate and celebrate each other's successes.
[18:12]So that's been really a lifesaver.
[18:16]That's awesome.
[18:17]And so you've already done a bunch of careers
[18:19]or you're still doing several.
[18:21]What else would you do if you could do absolutely anything?
[18:24]Is there anything else you would do?
[18:25]I mean, I would definitely, you know,
[18:27]if I could, I'd write both of them.
[18:29]Yeah, because I'm like, people are like,
[18:31]what are your hobbies?
[18:32]I'm like my hobby was writing until I got a book together.
[18:35]Not my hobby.
[18:36]And now it's another job.
[18:38]Yeah, now I have to find some new hobbies.
[18:41]But yeah, I mean, I, you know, I have a really full life
[18:44]and I love my life.
[18:46]So I don't know.
[18:46]I don't think I'd be doing anything else.
[18:49]That's like so, like I love that.
[18:51]I love that, especially for someone who's written a novel
[18:53]about someone living a whole different,
[18:55]different life of theirs.
[18:56]I think that's amazing.
[18:57]We always like to kind of end these podcasts
[19:00]asking for advice for aspiring writers.
[19:03]So what would you say to someone listening to this?
[19:05]Maybe they're writing fan fiction,
[19:08]dreaming of their book deal
[19:09]or dreaming of their own original project.
[19:10]What kind of advice would you give?
[19:12]Well, I would say you're probably gonna have moments
[19:16]of self doubt.
[19:17]I'm sure there are writers who don't,
[19:18]but I'm not one of them.
[19:20]So it's helpful to have like a strategy to deal with that.
[19:23]Like you can kind of, you know,
[19:25]keep a folder of nice things.
[19:27]People have said about your work
[19:28]or you can like read bad reviews of books that you love
[19:33]or just that's such a good one.
[19:35]Do you do?
[19:36]Well, I don't know.
[19:38]You got to proceed with caution there
[19:39]because it'll also show you like how nitpicky readers
[19:43]can be and you're like,
[19:45]what are they saying about my book?
[19:46]They're saying this about this other wonderful book.
[19:48]But you know, if you have a little bit of pettiness in you,
[19:52]it does help, which you know, I do.
[19:54]So sometimes you're in the mood.
[19:56]Okay, wait.
[19:57]So what are your, are those your strategies
[19:58]for overcoming self?
[20:00]I've done that and sometimes like you look back at your own writing and you're like,
[20:05]you know, this is pretty good actually. Like maybe, maybe I'm not a hat.
[20:11]I have been working on a novel and my husband is always like, how are you feeling about it today?
[20:16]And then it's like, depends on the day. Some days I'm like, you know, this is the worst thing
[20:19]that anybody's ever written. And some days I think, oh, this is not the worst thing anybody's ever
[20:26]tends to be as far as I get. But I love the idea of kind of having little strategies and
[20:31]keeping nice and people say about you because this is definitely a field word. There's plenty
[20:35]of self doubt, plenty of rejection that you just kind of have to live with. So, you know, I mean,
[20:41]I think those are really, really good approaches. Maybe roller skating with your daughter.
[20:47]Well, I don't roller skate anymore because I tour my ACL.
[20:51]I'm on it. Oh, God. I know, I guess what it was like years and years ago, but oh my gosh.
[20:57]So you just watch your roller skating space. I just watch. I'd bicycle.
[21:01]Also a great sport. Oh my gosh. Well, Sarah, it's been amazing to talk to you on the podcast today.
[21:06]Thank you so much for joining us to talk about the other me. Thanks for having me.
[21:12]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't
[21:16]forget to follow me on Instagram at zebioens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[21:20]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[21:25]of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact, texture sound
[21:30]for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this
[21:34]fantastic intro and outro music.