Kirby Howell-Baptiste, LITTLE BLACK BOY: Oh, the Things You Will Do! and LITTLE BLACK GIRL: Oh, the Things You Can Do!
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.
[0:07]Thank you so much.
[0:08]Called moms don't have time to read books.
[0:10]It is a daily podcast, 365 days a year, and each day we talk to an author about all of the things related to their career,
[0:18]their book, their life, and more in 30 minutes or less because who has time?
[0:22]I am now an author myself, although I wasn't when I started this podcast, and you can get my new memoir bookends,
[0:29]a memoir of love, loss, and literature, wherever books are sold starting July 1st, and my children's book prints is charming.
[0:37]You can learn more about me at zimbyones.com, but really you're here to learn more about the authors, and that is what we're going to do.
[0:44]Also, be sure to check out all the other podcasts in the Zcast Podcast Network.
[0:49]You can learn more at zcastnetwork.com and definitely check out those shows as well.
[0:54]Kirby Howell Baptiste is the author of Little Black Girl and Little Black Boy.
[1:03]She is a British actress known for her memorable roles across television and killing Eve,
[1:08]the good place, hacks, Barry, why women kill Veronica Mars, and most recently Netflix is the Sandman.
[1:14]On screen, she recently appeared in Disney's Cruella, which I watched with my kids in love,
[1:19]and STX films and Paramount Plus' Queen Pins.
[1:23]Upcoming, Howell Baptiste will star in Mr. Harrigan's phone, Netflix's film adaptation of Stephen King's
[1:29]Novella. Also, in Apple TV Plus' genre-bending series Sugar, opposite Colin Farrell,
[1:36]and in culprits for Disney Plus, she will also star in and executive produce the film She Talk Love.
[1:42]She released two books at once, Little Black Boy, and Little Black Girl,
[1:46]celebrating the joys of being a child, and encouraging Black Boys and Girls to follow their wild
[1:50]streams. Welcome, Kirby. Thank you so much for coming on moms. Don't have time to read books.
[1:56]Thank you for having me.
[1:58]So you have two books coming out at once, which is very ambitious of you.
[2:02]It's quite a way to dive into the children's book market.
[2:07]Tell listeners about your books and how you decided to do these and get them out and why
[2:13]at the same time and all the rest.
[2:15]Well, okay, so I have two kids books like you say. This is my first ever published books,
[2:20]and the first is called Little Black Girl, Other Things You Can Do, and the second is Little Black Boy,
[2:25]Other Things You Will Do. And the reason there are two is I originally wrote Little Black Girl
[2:31]like quite a few years ago, and it was sort of like coincided with when my niece was born,
[2:36]and then, you know, I've sort of had this idea of the things that I wish that I had heard or
[2:41]been told, you know, when I was when I was that age, and I almost just started it as a love letter
[2:45]to her, which then in turn kind of became like a love letter to my inner child. And then that
[2:52]idea kind of didn't go anywhere. I was with a team that then really were like, oh, I don't know.
[2:57]It was sort of, you know, at that point, I think it was sort of like stick to acting. And then
[3:02]sort of, you know, it went into the deep recesses of my laptop. And then during the pandemic,
[3:09]I just had a lot of time, and I was literally just cleaning things up and going through and
[3:14]reading old things that I'd read and sort of, you know, it was both nostalgic and also to sort of
[3:19]inspire, you know, inspire me during that time. And I came across the book again, and I read
[3:25]it. And I think it's rare as a writer. Well, I think it's rare as any sort of like artists. You often
[3:31]fall out of love with the things you've made and you become very, you know, judgmental and
[3:35]you can call yourself a writer. It's okay. Yes. Yeah. Okay. As a writer. Yeah. Thank you for
[3:42]I haven't published in two books. And now I can go ahead and write. Yes, it counts. It counts. But
[3:47]yes, I reread it. And there have been tweaks, but I really kind of fell in love with it all over
[3:52]again. And it was years later, my niece was 10 teen as my mom calls her. Like a whole new phase
[3:59]in her life as well. And I realized I felt like it was more relevant than ever, particularly to
[4:05]him words of encouragement because more than when I was a kid, we weren't surrounded by just so
[4:11]many voices in general. And, you know, not all of it is positive. So I felt like that needed to
[4:17]happen. And then when I pitched a book to Stacey at Penguin Random House, she was like, this is great.
[4:21]You think there's a second book to which I immediately said, yes. And I was like, well, now my
[4:26]mouth are in a check that I have to get. And so it just kind of became very natural that it would
[4:31]be like a sibling book that is companion. So we had little black girl. And we were, you know,
[4:36]talking about, you know, female empowerment and black girls, you know, being able to access things
[4:42]and do whatever, the natural sort of other side of that coin is, is black male joy, which I think
[4:48]is so under explored in literature and in film and TV. So that's how number two came along.
[4:57]Wow. Well, you did a great job. I mean, the writing is really moving, right? This isn't just,
[5:03]I see what you're saying about sort of healing your own inner child at the same time because
[5:07]their parts, even with black girl, where you talk about how, you know, black women have to
[5:12]band together and how the war comes from everybody, you know, bonding together and after everything.
[5:17]And, you know, the sense of community and collaboration and all of that, it's really, it's really
[5:25]amazing. Like it's very moving the way it's written. Well, thank you. Yeah, I hope that I think
[5:32]in general, you know, we do better, all of us do better in communities. And I think it could be
[5:38]tough. You know, me personally, I feel like I've had sort of like two upbringings as a black person.
[5:44]I'm in, you know, big growing up in the UK and being black British and Caribbean and then coming
[5:50]here and seeing sort of the race relations here and seeing it from an African-American perspective,
[5:57]I feel like the common denominator often in communities that have been moved out of their sort
[6:03]of like natural habitat is sort of the fracturing of communities. And I think it's our job and we
[6:09]realize that we are stronger when we do come together because that's sort of, that's the only
[6:14]sort of a survival skill. Like community is truly, I think, almost one of my most basic survival skills.
[6:21]It's true. Can I read a little piece of like a little page about this part of the book?
[6:26]So for people who haven't seen it yet, first it's about careers that you can do and not letting
[6:31]anybody hold you back by saying no and don't do it. Sort of like when people told you not to write
[6:35]a book. But anyway, do you want the world to blank slate? And remember that love will always
[6:41]destroy hate. You can travel the world or stay close to home. The world is your oyster to wander
[6:46]and roam. Know she's too black or not black enough words you may hear, but your skin will grow
[6:53]not tough on your own for there are many others, generations of women, your sisters and mothers.
[6:59]For we are black women who have weathered the storm when the world is cold, we keep each other warm.
[7:04]Our history is rich. We've been here since the start growing and changing and living work of art.
[7:10]As you hear out loud, because you never hear out loud, except when you're saying it.
[7:14]That's what I think I've heard. It's not funny when I'm saying out loud, I am a black woman.
[7:19]They're a lot of black women.
[7:21]Nobody likes to just hit and be like, oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[7:24]Because when you're in your own head, you're like, well, I know the rhythm. Does everyone else know
[7:27]it? No, I hope I got it right. No, it's really good. No, no, it's great.
[7:33]But it's inspiring. You know, you'll shatter the ceiling, bring others with you to share that
[7:37]great feeling. That's a great line. It's a great level. I hope so. You know, I've always been
[7:42]inspired as well. I feel like the thing about kids books and of course when you write something
[7:46]like this, you have to find, you have to target a demographic and it is a kid's book.
[7:51]But I look at things like, oh, the places you'll go and think about like, I didn't even read that
[7:56]until I was literally sort of going off to the next chapter of my life, which was between
[8:01]high school and college and like there's, there are these really big transitional moments in
[8:07]people's lives where you kind of just need something positive puts you in the most simple form.
[8:12]And I find that that kid's books, same with I guess cartoons, neither about such a vehicle for a
[8:18]bigger message. It's true. It's like this graduation speeches and short punchy things for getting
[8:27]you onto the next. Yeah. Yeah. And then the other book focuses more on marine aspiring marine biologist
[8:35]and as he as this black boy is exploring the world and uncovering things and even there you have
[8:42]the support of his whole network, right? You have like an image of in the water with him and
[8:47]everybody else and this sort of again, this collaborative way for people to pursue anything that
[8:52]they want with nothing holding them back at all and just like just waiting for the moon take this
[8:57]message. Yeah. Well, I think there's a small distinction in the titles as well for little black
[9:03]guys are the things you can do and little black boys are the things you will do. And Larry and I,
[9:08]Larry who co wrote little black boy, we went back and forth. It was such a small world. We debated it
[9:13]for Asian until we had to email Stacy to be the type. Should it have the same title or do you
[9:19]feel like this makes sense? And Stacy was really really helping. We just talked out with her and we
[9:23]all sort of discussed it's such a, you know, language is important, but it's so small. But what we
[9:29]really boiled it down to was that for black women, I think there is a struggle with the expectation
[9:36]that they can do anything that because it's almost like you have to be given permission to be
[9:39]allowed. Young black boys, they struggle with the idea with anyone sort of people put this idea
[9:45]of them that they even will do anything. That it's that there's almost the lack of expectation
[9:51]to expect it that you won't do anything. And so that became such a pivotal way of expressing
[9:57]the difference in the way we treat in. And then.
[10:00]not upbringing.
[10:01]So true.
[10:02]I can imagine those conversations.
[10:04]So small, when it's like you go back and forth
[10:07]for hours.
[10:07]You never heard.
[10:08]It's like, you don't know my gosh.
[10:10]Wait, so tell me how you are gonna launch this book
[10:13]and do whatever your film projects, your TV projects.
[10:17]So what you're doing four different projects at once
[10:19]or something and say,
[10:20]I'm always doing four different projects at once
[10:22]because I can't sit still.
[10:23]And if only you knew my mother,
[10:25]I'm always like, mom, take a hold of it, relax.
[10:27]She can't relax.
[10:28]Am I even hurt at the gene?
[10:29]I moved away for over 10 years
[10:31]and I still became my mom.
[10:33]It's impossible.
[10:33]But I am actually really fortunate.
[10:35]The project I'm on right now,
[10:36]it has just so timed out that it's quite light
[10:39]through November.
[10:40]So it's really kind of kids,
[10:42]we're actually that I get to have this time.
[10:44]And we're launching it in a number of ways.
[10:46]We have a book reading at Barnes and Noble on the 19th.
[10:49]The book launches on the 15th.
[10:51]It's available for pre-order now.
[10:53]And there's other things that are coming in.
[10:56]And Larry and I really,
[10:58]really want to make a point to do some readings
[11:00]at some libraries and some schools and things like that
[11:02]because that's just very, very, very important to us
[11:05]to sort of get the book to places
[11:07]that they might not have access to it.
[11:10]Yeah, I'm honestly really, really excited.
[11:12]I want to live my best right to life
[11:16]and be like touring, as if this was the 90s or something.
[11:21]I want to tour the world with this book.
[11:23]But I am really excited about it.
[11:25]And one of the things that I've said a lot to people
[11:27]is if you could offer it as a gift to people,
[11:33]we don't make the prices of these books.
[11:36]And I recognize that a book that's 1899
[11:39]to a lot of people that's chump change,
[11:41]but to a lot more people that's a huge amount of money.
[11:44]So if there's a world where people can buy this as a gift
[11:46]or donate it to a school or a foster home
[11:48]or things like that.
[11:50]So people who really do need to hear words
[11:52]of encouragement that might not be hearing it otherwise,
[11:55]get to hear it.
[11:56]You should put some links somewhere.
[11:57]Yeah, we're gonna, we have to do that.
[11:59]We've made some links.
[12:00]This is good.
[12:01]Lauren's taking notes, we'll make some links.
[12:03]Yeah, so thanks for effort.
[12:05]How do you use some sort like donation matching
[12:07]and things like that?
[12:08]We're gonna get there.
[12:09]There's even a way not to promote Amazon or anything,
[12:11]but there's a way where a lot of charities,
[12:14]you can just send it directly there.
[12:17]Like you put, you know what,
[12:18]I like to wish them this.
[12:19]Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[12:20]I'm sure there's better ways, but anyway,
[12:22]you don't need this advice.
[12:22]You'll feel figured out.
[12:25]I'll take advice from anyone.
[12:26]I have like, why not?
[12:28]Now I have something to, Lauren's hearing it.
[12:30]We'll have something to email about.
[12:33]Wait, so can you just tell me how you got started
[12:35]as an actor and this creative type?
[12:38]And as you've done 8,000 things every minute,
[12:40]what are some of the other things
[12:41]that you've gotten accomplished along the way?
[12:43]So how I started, I feel like I have a very like on,
[12:48]in a odd way, I think it's a very satisfying journey to hear,
[12:52]but it's not like a really sexy journey.
[12:54]It's not like, oh, I was walking down the street
[12:57]and you know, someone stopped me and was getting,
[12:59]gave me the role of a lifetime.
[13:00]Like my job has been very, which I think that is a sexy story,
[13:05]but I think at least when I was coming up,
[13:07]I would rather hear stories like mine,
[13:09]which was I kind of have scrapped and worked for everything.
[13:12]I didn't have, there was no one in this industry.
[13:15]There's no one in my family who's in this industry
[13:17]or who would I think whatever you want to be on camera.
[13:20]So it was a very, I feel like my journey
[13:23]has been very incremental and it's just grown over time.
[13:27]I started it, I did like acting at school,
[13:29]where I really started with my mum put me
[13:31]in these sort of like community center acting classes
[13:34]when I was young at a place called the Anishir Theatre.
[13:37]And I go there after school once and then twice a week.
[13:40]And that truly was just like everyone in North London
[13:43]where I'm from has went to Anishir at some point.
[13:46]But I fell in love with it,
[13:47]like straight away my first day, we came in
[13:49]and we would do little improvisations and dances.
[13:51]And I absolutely, I think it was the first time,
[13:55]I always been a TV addict.
[13:57]And my family would always say I was raised by TV.
[14:00]So I would watch TV relentlessly,
[14:04]but I don't think I ever connected
[14:05]when I was a kid at least, that was a job.
[14:07]You know, you kind of think it's real.
[14:09]And when I went to Anishir, I realized
[14:11]that that's what people were doing.
[14:13]And from that moment, I loved it.
[14:15]And I just sort of chipped away.
[14:18]I did background work when I was younger
[14:20]and moved out to LA with on a visa for school
[14:25]on like a student visa.
[14:27]And then got another visa after worked a cafe
[14:31]under the table whilst I was at school.
[14:32]So again, we'll always have a lot of projects going on at once.
[14:36]And then yeah, it's truly one thing has led to another.
[14:39]Yesterday, I was on set of a show that I'm on.
[14:43]We have a new cameraman and he said,
[14:46]Kirby, we did comedy bang bang together.
[14:48]And that was like almost 10 years ago.
[14:49]That was my first ever thing.
[14:51]And it was incredibly cool.
[14:53]We were chatting.
[14:54]And I said to him, you have no idea.
[14:56]That was my first ever co-star on comedy bang bang.
[14:59]And I have never been more nervous in my entire life.
[15:03]Like, I think I had one line and it was terrifying to be
[15:07]like on a finally be on a professional set.
[15:11]Wow, I would be terrified too.
[15:14]My daughter sang for the first time.
[15:15]She's a great singer, but finally did her first performance
[15:19]at school.
[15:19]And she said that her whole body was like shaking so much
[15:22]that even her voice was shaking.
[15:24]And I was like, it's never gonna get worse than this.
[15:26]Do you know what I mean?
[15:27]Like the first time you do it.
[15:28]This is the bottom and you'll be every other time
[15:31]and it'll get better.
[15:32]So, and I also think that there is something
[15:34]particularly intimate and raw about singing in front of people.
[15:39]I want to do my job for the rest of my life.
[15:42]But if you ask me to sing in front of people,
[15:44]I will quit immediately.
[15:46]It's not a thing I have any interest in.
[15:49]Well, I will say actually, actually weirdly enough
[15:51]that only thing I think I could be capable of singing
[15:54]and I think it's cause I love it is I love the musical
[15:57]cabaret.
[15:58]I studied it when we like in school.
[16:00]And I just fell in love with it.
[16:02]I think I love, I was a, you know, someone who loved
[16:04]English enough history and I love the history of it
[16:06]and all of that sort of stuff.
[16:08]And I think it's cause it's fun.
[16:09]That's the only thing I, if I, if I've gone to my head,
[16:12]I have to sing anything.
[16:13]It would be, it would be from cabaret.
[16:16]Oh, there you go.
[16:17]Learn something new every day.
[16:18]And what is your schedule like with the roles you're doing?
[16:23]Like do you have to show up really early?
[16:24]And do you do creative writing like as a release at different
[16:28]times or is writing a part of your life or reading?
[16:31]Are you reading in between takes or what's your,
[16:34]what's your life like?
[16:35]Yeah, I feel like when I'm, when I'm working,
[16:39]I read a lot of scripts and often it feels like when I'm
[16:42]reading a book, you would get a bit of, you can kind of have
[16:45]the guilt where you're like, well, I know there's other things
[16:47]because I'm being sent scripts and there's other things
[16:48]to be reading.
[16:49]But what I kind of re-discovered my love of reading during
[16:53]the pandemic, like a lot of people, but not just like,
[16:56]oh, I read a page or two, but you know, really when I was younger,
[16:58]I would just sit physically in school holidays and just
[17:01]read all day.
[17:02]Like it was just one of my favorite things to do.
[17:05]And I re-discovered that during the pandemic.
[17:07]And then I just read a book for Book of the Month.
[17:10]And I love that I loved like something about also having a
[17:14]deadline and it makes you do it.
[17:15]But I spent three days reading this book and it was so glorious.
[17:19]Like I would plan my day when I was working.
[17:23]What was the look?
[17:23]I, it's called The Last Party by Claire McIntosh.
[17:28]Oh, yeah, I love Claire McIntosh.
[17:30]So good.
[17:31]And I'm a big mystery.
[17:32]I love, I'm like, yeah, those are, that's my jam.
[17:36]So I do read a lot.
[17:38]I try to read more on that.
[17:39]This is actually going to encourage me because I just got
[17:41]a book of the month subscription.
[17:42]So this is my character.
[17:44]Like to have that deadline to be reading every month.
[17:46]And then schedule wise, I am more or less always busy.
[17:50]Truly, if it's not actual work, like right now, again,
[17:53]I have the lightest schedule filming wise that I've had in
[17:56]in years.
[17:57]I work maybe like two days and then I'm off for five.
[18:00]And then the way it's shot, we shoot in big blocks.
[18:02]So you'll shoot very intensely for a couple of days and you'll
[18:04]have a lot of days off.
[18:05]Which show is this that you're referring to?
[18:07]This is for an Apple show that I'm filming right now.
[18:09]OK.
[18:10]But writing is my sanity, I think, actually.
[18:14]And it's the most pure, I think, expression of myself.
[18:19]Because I think everyone has a need to, we all have a need
[18:22]to express ourselves.
[18:23]We all need to talk.
[18:24]But I think for me, writing is a way of sort of like getting.
[18:29]It's almost like when you're trying to explain something to
[18:31]someone and they keep interrupting, that's what a lot of
[18:33]other writing for.
[18:34]That's like what conversations online feel like.
[18:36]You're like, no, I haven't finished the thought yet.
[18:38]When you write your own thing, these are all my ideas.
[18:42]This is what I think and feel about this thing.
[18:45]And it's put out there and you can digest it however you want
[18:48]in whatever time span you want, wherever you want.
[18:51]And then kind of think about it.
[18:53]And if there is, if that prompt for something, then it does.
[18:56]But for me, it's like, if I have something that is I'm
[18:59]struggling with, or, you know, when I found out about we
[19:03]were in still in the midst of it, of like Roe v Wade being
[19:06]repealed and things like that and all the stuff we're into.
[19:09]I remember texting a friend, who's a director of just being like,
[19:11]I really don't know what to do.
[19:13]Like I just feel like mostly I feel very, very powerless.
[19:18]And then I ended up because I love comedy as well, writing
[19:21]like a comedic short that was like kind of tangential, but had
[19:24]some, you know, it was like very much this, but not in a
[19:27]preachy way.
[19:28]Like you might not know we're talking about this.
[19:30]And it was kind of the only way I could stop feeling kind of
[19:34]crappy about it, because I at least just sort of expelled some
[19:38]of the feelings and the emotions.
[19:41]I, I even same exact way by the way, that's how I, yeah, in one
[19:45]of these cabinets, I have like every journal from when I was eight
[19:47]years old enough.
[19:49]It's, it's funny, I feel like we should rebrand writing to like
[19:53]busy people and just feel like, what if you could talk without
[19:57]being interrupted?
[20:00]That's what it is.
[20:00]It's, it's do you like, would you love?
[20:02]How do you love to talk with me as you're up to do?
[20:05]Yeah, maybe that would intimidate people.
[20:07]But yeah, I don't know, but it is nice.
[20:10]I guess you have to be more cognizant of what you're saying, right?
[20:12]Because it's like, you're going to get this one chance.
[20:15]So, but that's also good because we often talk and then think,
[20:19]which is what we're doing so quickly.
[20:21]We're so ahead of ourselves,
[20:23]whereas when you write something and you leave it there and you come back to it,
[20:27]you're sort of like, huh, like I have a whole notes.
[20:30]I'm not on put stuff, but I have a whole notes file that's called tweets.
[20:34]I've never sent and it's not actual tweets.
[20:36]Just like things that pop into my head, whereas I think most people will post it.
[20:40]And that's not what you do with the first thought that comes into your mind.
[20:43]Do you have to sometimes put it there and then you come back and you're like,
[20:46]what was I saying?
[20:48]I don't know what you want to do.
[20:49]I must have been mad that that is so smart of you.
[20:51]And one day, that can be a book too.
[20:54]I would love that.
[20:57]I really want to make like a toilet book.
[20:59]So I'm like, yeah, that's the check out counter type of thing.
[21:03]Yeah, I love it.
[21:06]I love those.
[21:07]But those are excellent.
[21:08]I love those things.
[21:09]No, I used to collect like all those tiny quote books.
[21:11]Do you remember? Well, you're probably not like a little one.
[21:15]Yeah.
[21:16]Anyway, so okay.
[21:18]So what is your next book going to be?
[21:20]Is there another one coming?
[21:21]What do you think there is in the moment?
[21:23]But I think I would like it to be a toilet book.
[21:25]There's similarly to the way I've chosen acting roles.
[21:27]It hasn't been like, I kind of just go where the mood takes me.
[21:32]So it will be drama to really ridiculous comedy to someone that's really heavy.
[21:37]And I feel like that with this, you know, I've written these kids books.
[21:41]I don't know that the next thing is necessarily a kids book.
[21:44]I think it's just whatever is inspiring me or amusing me at that moment.
[21:48]And that's what I would go to.
[21:49]But a toilet book is really a thing that I'm that I'm excited about.
[21:52]Maybe because I just like the phrasing toilet book.
[21:54]But I don't always want to take my phone into the toilet,
[21:58]but it's become a habit that we all do with it.
[22:00]And I want to get back to not taking a phone into the toilet.
[22:04]And it's hard to like start a novel.
[22:07]You know what I mean?
[22:07]Like you kind of want something that's digestible.
[22:09]Oh, you know what?
[22:10]You should do is make it look like a phone.
[22:13]So you should have like the cover and then it could be like this size.
[22:17]And then you could just open it and they would be in it.
[22:20]OK, Lauren, I hope you're taking those and all credit to this.
[22:27]I think that would be really funny.
[22:28]And you could just keep it like in the toilet.
[22:32]Yeah, like you could put it in my own and you could put it.
[22:36]You could actually do a collab with apples.
[22:38]Since aren't you doing an apple thing?
[22:40]You should have them like do it so that they have the logo.
[22:42]Yes.
[22:44]Well, I love this is excellent because what I was thinking today
[22:47]when I was in the toilet, I was like it should also be
[22:50]sanitary. So it should be made out of a material that isn't just like paper.
[22:53]It should be the cover.
[22:54]So if it was something that was like, look like a phone, at least the outside
[22:58]could be like hard and you could always just like wipe it down if you want.
[23:00]It's like not that it's going to get crazy in there, but bathrooms are bathrooms
[23:04]and everything's in the air.
[23:05]You know, like a kids book on us, like a kid's thing they would take out.
[23:08]Exactly, exactly like that.
[23:10]Yeah. So fun. Why is nobody thought of this yet?
[23:13]We're doing it. This is next.
[23:14]All right, great.
[23:18]Oh, I love it.
[23:18]Tweets I've never said.
[23:19]Actually, you can even look at what I'll stop.
[23:21]Anyway, it was great meeting you.
[23:24]There's obviously so much you could do and congratulations on your books.
[23:27]It's perfect that they're out before the holidays.
[23:29]These will be great. I'm going to put them.
[23:31]I'm doing this gift guide.
[23:32]So we're going to put them in the gift guide and all this good stuff.
[23:34]So anyway, congratulations.
[23:36]Right. Well, this was lovely.
[23:37]I honestly could like talk and spit ball with you for hours.
[23:40]Right. This would be fun.
[23:41]I feel like they're so cool.
[23:44]I'm in New York. Are you?
[23:45]No, you're in LA, right?
[23:46]I have to get out of it.
[23:47]I mean, I mean, I wish I was in New York,
[23:49]but yeah, I feel like I don't know.
[23:51]Also, New York cities in general are conducive to people who interact with other people a lot.
[23:57]So I think you just become a better conversation there.
[23:59]So it's like you're just exercising the loss of them talking much, much more than people in LA.
[24:05]Maybe. Also, this is my job.
[24:08]No, I'm kidding. I'm totally kidding.
[24:11]This is actually just like what I'm like all the time.
[24:13]That's why this is so fun, but I might be opening a bookstore in LA.
[24:17]Oh, my God. I would love that. Well, I want to do readings.
[24:20]I have a toilet book that's in the iPhone coming soon.
[24:24]That's right. That's right. That's right. Yes.
[24:26]So stay tuned. I'll keep you fit soon.
[24:31]Awesome. I hope to meet you soon. Yes, we should.
[24:34]I would love that.
[24:35]Okay. All right. Good luck.
[24:36]All right. Talk to you soon. Bye bye.
[24:40]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books.
[24:44]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books.
[24:49]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowans.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[24:54]of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan. In fact, texture sound
[24:58]for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[25:03]now trim music.