Hena Khan, ZARA'S RULES FOR RECORD-BREAKING FUN

[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.

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[0:58]Handicon is the author of Zara's Rules for Record Breaking Fun.

[1:01]Handicon is a Pakistani American Muslim who was born and raised in Maryland and enjoys sharing and writing about her culture and religion.

[1:08]She's written about a bunch of other topics from spies to space travel to take her out of her reality and on adventures.

[1:15]She's had a few adventures of her own, managed to get to some pretty fantastic places on our planet, and met incredible people along the way.

[1:22]She is slightly obsessed with Spain, ceramic tiles, and pottery, food, flamenco, and good coffee.

[1:27]When she's not cooking up a story, she's often actually cooking food or baking treats for family or friends.

[1:32]She also spends a good chunk of her life writing and editing for international organizations that work to improve the health of people around the world.

[1:39]Handicon is also an author who came and spoke to my kids' school, and so that's why I picked this.

[1:45]Welcome, Handicon. Thank you so much for coming on Mom's Don't Have Time to read books to discuss Zara's Rules for Record Breaking.

[1:52]Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[1:55]I have to tell you that you spoke at my kids' school. I have a second grader and a third grader.

[2:00]I think you went last year in New York or you did virtually or something.

[2:04]Very, very excited, and they were just like, you have to interview this author, and then of course today, I'm like, guess who I'm interviewing, and they're like, who?

[2:12]Anyway, they were very excited. So that's really where it's came from.

[2:18]Oh, that's so great. Tell them thank you.

[2:21]Doing school visits and talking to kids is the most fun part of all of this.

[2:27]Okay, so, first of all, talk about your latest book.

[2:30]And I would love to hear how you got started and built this whole career.

[2:34]Sure, thank you. So, Zara's Rules for Record Breaking Fun is the first book in a series featuring Zara, who is actually the sister of my character, Zade, and my Zade.

[2:45]So, I was like, what's the name of chasing the dream series, but I just love this girl so much. And in that series, she's the kind of sometimes snarky little bit, you know, know what all older sister, but in a sweet way.

[2:57]And Zade just idolizes her. And I just love the idea of exploring her character in more detail.

[3:03]She's already so invested in that family and that universe I had created that it was really fun to go back and examine them from a different time period.

[3:11]So I actually set this series three years before the Zade series. So, Zara is about, you know, ten and three quarters that she says in the beginning of the first book.

[3:19]And Zade is even younger. So it's just a different vantage point. The books are very neighborhood centric.

[3:25]I wrote them actually during the pandemic when I was, you know, everyone was stuck at home. And the thing, the one of the bright lights was hearing all the kids outside playing and being imaginative.

[3:36]And like, I would hear like roving gangs of kids on bikes and it just made me think of my childhood and it was something that I hadn't seen before, you know, in recent years.

[3:45]So Zara was born and it's very much a series about neighborhood friendships and antics and and the first book she is very threatened because a new girl named Naomi is is moved into the neighborhood her whole family is moved in across the street.

[4:01]And Zara so used to being the one who isn't sort of in charge of all the kids and makes the rules and make sure the teams are even and all of a sudden this new family comes with kids that are going to threaten that balance.

[4:12]She feels very unsure what's going to happen and a little threatened by this new girls ideas being so welcomed by the other kids.

[4:20]So she sets out to sort of establish herself as the queen of the neighborhood and decide she's going to break again this world record in order to show how how important she is.

[4:33]It doesn't go the way she plans, but a lot of it is actually based on my neighborhood and and my childhood and my attempts to break again this world record like so many of us have.

[4:44]So which one did you attempt to break.

[4:47]The hula hooping was our big one. We were sure that we were going to that's why those hula hooping on the cover here and my neighbor was a little better than me so my friend Naomi in real life was hula hooping on her driveway for 57 minutes without stopping.

[5:02]Oh my gosh, yes, and we were like, Oh, well, she gets to an hour that that's got to be the world record right.

[5:08]We didn't know what it was. We just thought we knew. And at minute 57 my brother rammed into her with his tricycle.

[5:15]No, and the tool of who came crashing down and it was just this moment seared in our memories is this tragedy.

[5:23]So I stole that and put it in the book, but Zara's the one trying to break the record and the one hula hooping in the story.

[5:30]Along with other failed at this. So did you must have where like what was the record?

[5:35]We don't even know.

[5:37]Is there a record when I was growing up. I'm sure there must be.

[5:40]Yeah.

[5:41]Oh my gosh. Oh, yes, after the book. Well, I Google a lot of them.

[5:45]So she's our nose based on this old book that she had ever uncle about, you know, the longest tap dancing and you know that, but yes, I didn't know.

[5:55]We certainly didn't know.

[5:56]No, I'm talking real life here.

[5:58]Yeah, I don't know what it is.

[6:00]What age is your is Zara's rules for record breaking like perfect for people are listening and they want to get gifts for the holidays or something like that, which age kid.

[6:10]So I'm the way the publisher breaks it down is this is what we call the middle grade, you know, and you're not a little little and you're not not a lesson yet.

[6:20]So it's seven to 10 is what they recommend roughly, but you know, I've had kids like throughout elementary school really like even like fourth and fifth graders enjoy the series and the eighth series.

[6:30]So end results too. I like to.

[6:34]I think the nice thing I read a lot of middle grade fiction and what I love about it is it's just a good storytelling without all of us.

[6:41]And especially the second the second book of the series just launched last week.

[6:45]Um, Zara's rules for finding hidden treasure and that's what I think moms in particular might really connect with because a lot of it is stuff that I'm wrestling with now the idea of what we keep and treasure and what we get rid of and I'm wrestling with my mom and it's been many years with getting her to part with things that she needs to part with, which is the challenge and and I think kids too, you know, like absorb the things that we do or what what we keep and why.

[7:12]And some of them, you know, one of my sons very tidy and organized the other ones a little bit of a hoarder and I don't know why.

[7:18]So it's just fun to to talk about all that stuff and Marie condo has a mention which I thought was funny that was for my own sick.

[7:28]So tell me how you got started writing in general.

[7:32]Yeah, so I think I was always a writer at heart as a kid. I was like one of those kids writing stories and a family newspaper. I just never really considered it as, you know, being a book author was something I never thought was possible for someone like me.

[7:45]And I consider journalism. I worked on my school newspaper. You know, I ended up in public health communications after, you know, a while.

[7:53]I started writing and editing, but for technical documents and things about diseases and not not at all fun.

[7:59]And I actually fell into writing for kids by accident when a friend of mine from elementary school who was working at Scholastic book clubs asked reached out to me and asked me for help on a series she was working on.

[8:10]By university and she knew I love to write and I decided to give it a try found that it was way harder than I realized and I had to completely learn how to write for children.

[8:20]But it made me think about how much I love books as a kid and how exciting it was to when you get that first letter from a child saying that they loved your book or like this is amazing. There's an actual reader on the other side of this.

[8:31]It was a kid. It made me realize I wanted to keep doing it, but I also really wanted to write books that did include characters like me and my children and them, you know, characters that I never had, you know, the chance to see when I was growing up.

[8:45]I never picked up a book and saw a character who looked like me ever or had a family line because this is an audio podcast mostly tell everyone your background and what you mean by that.

[8:56]Yeah, so I'm a Pakistani American child of immigrants and a Muslim and that was just representation I did not see growing up, you know, and I was an avid reader who spent a lot of time at my local public library and I was, you know, a devoured books like Beverly Cleary and Ramona

[9:13]Quimby was my favorite and I like to think that those books are the inspiration behind this series, but you know, as much as I tried and I was very curious to learn about how other people's lives worked and how other families worked and of course I found ways to connect with all of those characters and love those characters, but I just never saw myself in nor did I really question where I was.

[9:35]I just accepted, you know, the mainstream narrative did not include me and now looking back I realized what an impact that had, but as a kid I just sort of was like, well, I guess, I guess my story doesn't matter.

[9:47]The things that make me different or my family different than, you know, the ones I read about, you know, aren't worthy of being in print.

[9:54]And now it's amazing to be able to actually add those details on the little cultural reference.

[10:00]and, you know, have them reach each other the way my family would

[10:04]greet each other. And for it to not be a big deal, that's

[10:08]important to me too. That, you know, we make a big deal about diversity. I

[10:11]think it is important and a very important conversation to be having.

[10:14]But at the same time when it comes to children's literature, sometimes it's

[10:18]nice to have stories where kids just are who they are and are, you know,

[10:22]living life as kids, having very relatable problems, day-to-day challenges,

[10:27]not things related to their identity necessarily or, you know, challenges

[10:31]related to that. But just, you know, ordinary things like a kid moving into a

[10:35]neighborhood or having your bike be stolen and needing to make money to get

[10:39]anyone or things like that. But then this family is Pakistani, American,

[10:45]third, she's a third generation Pakistani American like my children.

[10:48]And, you know, they're Muslim and that's just sort of there as the same time that

[10:52]they're interacting with their very close Jewish neighbors who live across the

[10:55]street, which is what it was like for me. And I think it's also

[10:58]important for, you know, as important as it is for kids who

[11:02]are of a particular background to be feel represented and

[11:05]pick up a book and feel included. I think it's equally important if not more

[11:10]important for other kids to read about those characters and

[11:13]find things in common, just like I did with Ramona Guimbi

[11:17]and see like, oh, okay, this family is a little different than mine, but

[11:22]actually has so much in common with me and mine too.

[11:25]You know, I reread Ramona recently to one of my younger kids and I hadn't

[11:29]like dived back in in so many years. And she did so many things independently.

[11:34]Like she was like out and about walking to school, like doing all these

[11:38]things unattended totally. And I was like, and I'm looking at like my 70,

[11:43]I do way too much for my kids. I have to say I'm like the most

[11:46]enabling mom ever. But I'm like, wow, look what they were doing. You know,

[11:49]she's like scampering out to school and doing all these adventures.

[11:53]Yeah. Yeah. And I was, you know, very sheltered and protected. I had,

[11:57]you know, you would call it over protective mom back then.

[12:00]But even then, I used to walk to school. It was almost a mile away,

[12:03]you know, back and forth every day. And those were some of the most fun times of

[12:06]my life where just that walk back and forth and things we would discover and do.

[12:11]So yeah, I do. I do think I have that spirit a little bit in these books too.

[12:15]Like Zara's a little free to, you know, be on her street and with her friends.

[12:19]And to me, that was important. And, you know, and technology plays a very small,

[12:23]if almost no role in the stories. And I didn't really think about it,

[12:27]because I think I was looking back to the past as I was modernizing my experiences for

[12:32]the present day. But, you know, I didn't, I didn't feel like it needed to be there.

[12:36]So there's, you know, I know in a lot of, in the books I even I write for older kids,

[12:40]there is a mention of phone use or texting or whatever it is. But I just,

[12:44]I just didn't feel like that was necessary in these books. And it was just refreshing.

[12:47]Don't have it there. Thank you for that break. That's wonderful.

[12:52]Kids need to know that life goes on, you know, I'm like, this is your life, this is your

[12:56]life. Exactly. So when you started writing for kids and realized it was harder than you thought,

[13:01]what did you have to change about your writing style to accommodate that?

[13:05]Oh, in the beginning, it was even something as basic as, you know, using exclamation points,

[13:09]which I was taught never to do as a kid. You know, I remember like teachers saying,

[13:14]no, no, I'm cutting those out. And I was like, oh, I guess I have a well placed exclamation

[13:18]point works. And, you know, being punny and especially those initial books that I was writing

[13:23]that were nonfiction, it was ways to make topics like space and espionage, you know, very accessible

[13:28]and exciting. And so that, you know, snappy punny language was what I was trying to pick up on

[13:34]and had to learn. But then, you know, when it came to just storytelling and becoming a novelist,

[13:38]that was the whole new beast to tackle and, you know, thinking about what makes a great character,

[13:44]or what makes a compelling story, you know, that balance of, you know, my characters,

[13:50]some of them tend to be not your typical spunky girl. Like, I feel like there's a lot of spunky

[13:55]girls and narratives. And so maybe you could define her that way, but I didn't want her to have

[14:00]this overwhelming personality or this overwhelming passion for one things. I feel like we see a

[14:05]a lot of girls like that. And even some of my characters have more passion, or more passion driven.

[14:10]But what I like about Zara is that she is, you know, someone interested in all sorts of things

[14:15]and tries lots of things. And that was what I had established as her character in the first

[14:19]series is that she, she tried a bunch of things and didn't always, she was maybe a chronic,

[14:24]you know, quitter, which I thought was hilarious. And in these books, it doesn't come out as much,

[14:30]but she does, she's just open to trying new things, which, which I really liked. But that idea of,

[14:35]you know, building a character who, who everyone can relate to and who, you know, feels really

[14:41]authentic. That that was to me, the part of writing that I just really adore now, but took a bit

[14:46]to learn and things like Master in Dialogue, which takes practice. It's been a journey.

[14:54]So what is your process like how fast you write these books? Well, how many books a year? Like,

[14:58]what's your schedule and how do you balance all that with all the school visits and your own

[15:03]parenting? Oh, yeah. I wish I was just talking to another author friend who is very regimented in

[15:09]his schedule. And he has, you know, very carved out precious writing time every day. And my schedule

[15:15]is just all over the place. I don't have anywhere reason to do it. And you know, sometimes I'm

[15:21]more focused on writing. Other times I may be more focused on editing. Other times, you know,

[15:26]when I'm traveling, it's very hard for me to focus on either of those things or any extended

[15:30]period of time. But as far as the time it takes, I usually try to give myself about three months

[15:37]to work on a book of Zara's length, maybe six months to work on a longer novel for older kids.

[15:44]And then picture books take an absurdly long amount of time. I write it as well. Like, I mean,

[15:49]the words may first draft may come to you. And you may write it in a few days, but then

[15:54]the tweaking and making sure every word fits and makes sense. And then the whole process of,

[16:00]you know, getting it to art and, you know, it can take years. So I usually juggle more than one

[16:05]project at once. Not one of the same type, but I'll be working, you know, I'll be maybe copy

[16:11]editing one while I'm revising another while I'm drafting a third. So that tends to keep things

[16:16]moving. And then in terms of how many books a year, it just depends like the Zara series,

[16:21]I wrote all three in one year. But, you know, at other times, I might be working on a longer

[16:26]piece that takes longer or a couple of picture books. And so, and everything comes out,

[16:30]you know, much later. So sometimes all of a sudden it looks like I have four books coming out,

[16:34]you know, within six months. And everyone's like, you've been busy. And I'm like,

[16:37]well, like three years ago, they're just coming out now. So it is a lot of juggling. But fun,

[16:45]fun to like try to make it all fit and not have publishing deadlines that conflict with each other

[16:50]and things like that. Do you feel like you're just perpetually on tour? Not well, it all came to

[16:55]screeching hall during the pandemic. Before that, it was a lot of travel and a lot of school visits.

[17:00]And I really felt like I couldn't say no to things. And you know, is that that fear that,

[17:06]okay, I'm getting invited to all of these things, these conferences and, you know, and school visits

[17:11]and workshops or whatever it is. And I want to go to everything. And there's, you know, notion that

[17:15]if I didn't, that people would forget about me or the well would dry up. And it was,

[17:20]it was exhausting really to look back and think about how much I was doing. And,

[17:24]and so initially when everything stopped, I was actually at a school in Florida when

[17:30]everything went on lockdown. I was there for a three day visit at this lovely school in Tampa.

[17:35]And I mean, remember the second day thinking, should I go home? You know, what does it

[17:39]mean? Like when the NBA like shut down the next day, I flew home with all the spring breakers.

[17:44]I was like, oh, we're all really packed at this tiny plane together. What's going to happen?

[17:49]But, you know, initially when I looked at my calendar and there was nothing, you know,

[17:53]everything was canceled. I felt this enormous sense of relief because I realized how much I had

[17:58]just been running and how much it had taken a toll. So then slowly we, you know, we introduced

[18:04]the idea of virtual visits and that started up. So now the in person travel and visits are

[18:11]picking up again. And it just feels so wonderful after this much longer break than we had

[18:16]ever thought happened. And to just see school, you know, school kids and talk with them face-to-face

[18:21]like it's a blast. But I am trying to be more mindful of what I say yes to. And I'm like, well,

[18:27]maybe, you know, I don't need to go to Missouri for an afternoon if it's going to take me

[18:32]eight hours to get there, you know, something like that.

[18:35]And so what are some of the things that you say to your school visit audiences that resonate

[18:41]the most with them? Oh, wow. Well, I think kids really love to hear that writing isn't always

[18:49]easy, even for writers. I talk about that and how when I was a kid, I thought to be a writer,

[18:54]you needed some sort of seal of approval or like a certificate and like you are now writers.

[18:59]And even honestly, as an adult, I felt like I suffered imposter syndrome for so many years.

[19:05]I struggled to call myself an author, even though I had several books published.

[19:09]And so I talked to kids about, you know, their voices mattering, their stories mattering,

[19:14]and the stuff that's happening to them in their lives today are all great ingredients for

[19:19]stories that you don't have to necessarily think of things in fantastic terms like, you know,

[19:25]space and spies and, you know, pirates and robots, like you can write about your experiences

[19:31]and those things matter. And once you actually start writing, you are a writer. And that it's not,

[19:37]it's not always easy and smooth, but that's okay. You know, it isn't even for people like me

[19:41]who are publishing, but yet still have the little voice. I still have the little voice in

[19:46]back in my head telling me, this is terrible. You know, nobody wants to read this. And that you

[19:51]have to push through. And I think they're surprised to hear that. But I love seeing their reaction

[19:56]on. I say, you know, I really don't love writing first drafts. It's like, it can be really real-

[20:00]hard. So the self doubt never ends. It does not. It's it's alive and well in my brain for sure.

[20:08]So what do you have coming up now? A few different projects. I'm excited. I just sent off

[20:14]copy edits to the third book in the Zara series, which is called Thank You, Zara's Rules for

[20:20]Living Your Best Life. And that one's that one's really fun. It's also it takes place when

[20:27]she's has spring break and she's all excited to plan all these things, you know, with the kids

[20:31]in the neighborhood. She finds out that her her friend Naomi is signed up for a week of camp at her synagogue

[20:36]and that she is being taken to her grandparents for the week because her parents have work. So she and

[20:42]her brother just, you know, stuck at the grandparents, which is usually fun for a few hours, but the

[20:47]whole week seems daunting. And her grandfather is newly retired. And she thinks, you know, he might

[20:53]end up being more like her former neighbor who was retired, who was very active and, you know,

[20:58]gardening and painting and do all these things. And and instead she's finding granddad slumbering in

[21:03]his armchair like after breakfast in his pajamas. So she decides that he needs a hobby and takes it

[21:10]upon herself to find him the hobby that he needs. So again, like something that my kids have dealt

[21:16]with. It's just no fun to go back and reexamine ideas through that lens of a kid. So that comes

[21:23]out in the spring. I'm working on a graphic novel. My first graphic novel comes out in this

[21:28]fun. So yeah, this is exciting. Very different format, but very fun to write. I have a new middle

[21:33]grade coming out and a few picture books. So lots of different lots of different

[21:37]ideas. Yeah, it's been busy, but super fun. What's one thing you wish you had more time for?

[21:47]Exercise. I'm just kidding. That's the thing that always,

[21:51]always immediately gets cut out of my day. No, seriously, I wish I had more time to read. And I

[21:57]wish I gave myself the, the space to read. I always feel guilty. Like I should be doing something

[22:03]else. And as a kid, you know, reading was such a huge part of my day to day. And I'd never felt

[22:08]that guilt that I should be doing something else. And now I feel like I have to remind myself,

[22:13]like I'm a writer and it's good for me to read. And this is work too. And then I'll allow it.

[22:18]But I wish I just had that uninterrupted hours to just luxuriate at the book.

[22:24]Sure, many of your listeners also don't have any questions.

[22:27]And that it's a very relatable problem. People are always so ashamed. Like, I have at least

[22:32]books on my bedside. And I wish, but I'm sorry, but I can't get them. And I think that's it.

[22:40]It's part of why you have to trick yourself by doing things like starting a podcast, all about

[22:44]books that you have on screen books. Yeah. And I haven't gotten into audiobooks yet. But I do,

[22:50]I did start listening to a podcast recently. And I realized I do love listening to podcasts.

[22:56]And it was a podcast about books, which I, you know, a new one. Yeah. And I just,

[23:01]I feel like there's something about sitting with a book, though. And I'm holding the pages.

[23:06]But, but I am going to try audiobooks since I do love just hearing voices, especially

[23:11]really good narration. Yeah, that's great. There's some debate. Is that actually reading?

[23:16]I know. I think we need a different word for it. It's not exactly reading, but you're still

[23:21]inhaling and consuming the book. But I'll try it. I haven't done it yet.

[23:25]Yeah. I think it's particularly great for memoirs. I love hearing the books by the author who

[23:32]writes in their own voice. Yeah. Their own voice. And then you feel like you know them.

[23:36]Bye. Okay. Well, Hannah, thank you so much. Thanks for coming on mom's no time to read books.

[23:41]Thanks for talking to my kids school and getting them really excited and inspired and all that.

[23:46]And it was nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. Thank you for having me and say hi to

[23:51]your kids for me. Okay. Thanks. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of

[23:57]mom's. Don't have time to read books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens

[24:02]and at mom's. Don't have time to read books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com

[24:06]and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.

[24:11]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact, texture sound for the sound editing.

[24:15]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.