Karen V. Johnson, LIVING GRIEVING: Using Energy Medicine to Alchemize Grief and Loss
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[0:58]Karen V. Johnson is the author of Living, Grieving, Using Energy Medicine to Alchemize, Grief, and Loss.
[1:04]Karen is a graduate of Georgetown Law Center, a former Fulbright scholar in Afghanistan, and holds masters degrees in public health and public and international affairs.
[1:13]MPH and PIA. Karen is a retired federal administrative law judge who practiced criminal and energy law for more than 30 years.
[1:21]She is also a former U.S. Army officer, major U.S. AR, in active. Karen was personally trained by Alberto and his faculty at the Four Wind Society and a master practitioner of energy medicine.
[1:32]She has trained extensively in the techniques of illumination, soul retrieval, extractions of energies and entities, divination and death rights, living, grieving, using energy medicine to Alchemize, Grief, and Loss is her first book.
[1:45]Welcome, Karen. Thank you so much for coming. I'm Bob, so I'd have time to read back.
[1:49]Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.
[1:52]Karen, you wrote so beautifully and it's such a gut punch as a reader to read what happened with your son, Ben, and his overdose.
[2:02]And you're finding out about it when you were in silk, sell your story. Oh my gosh.
[2:08]Yeah, you've turned it into a gift for everybody else to help them get through whatever grief they have to get through. Tell me a little bit about what happened, how you decided to write this book and all the sort of modalities you want to introduce the rest of us too.
[2:22]Yeah, so, gosh, I think I was pretty much unconscious, you know, going along, living my life, and I knew that my son was struggling, but, you know, so many young men are and young women, right?
[2:35]And so he wasn't an addict, but he didn't went to a party and got drunk, and they decided they were going to try heroin and they gave him too much. He's a big guy.
[2:46]Six and 275 pounds, whatever. So they gave him a lot and he died almost instantly and he and I really super close and I had decided when I was going on vacation, I got the vacation, we're going to sit down and have this talk.
[3:00]He was super smart, but didn't want to go to college and wanted to have his own business and, you know, so many things.
[3:06]And so I decided we needed to talk because he'd seem like he was struggling.
[3:10]So I get this call in South Korea and you know, I don't usually pick up calls, I don't know, but I had been feeling terrible all afternoon.
[3:20]And so I called right back and the person that picked up was a detective and I said, as she said, are you Karen Johnson, are you Ben's mother, I'm like, yes, what's happened.
[3:31]And I said, is he okay and he said, where are you? And I said, I'm in South Korea, what's going on? And he said, I'm sorry to tell you, but he's deceased, he died.
[3:42]And I'm like, from what? A heroin overdose. Oh, so, you know, my whole world fell apart, you know, and, and so it took me about 24 hours to get back.
[3:56]And while I was, I couldn't even, so I got the call at night in Korea, which is daytime there and I couldn't get a flight out until the next morning.
[4:04]And so on the phone all night with family and friends and gosh, it was just, it was just, I don't even know how to express it life ending life changing.
[4:14]the airport the next morning to get on a flight. It was sitting waiting and he shows up in front of me.
[4:20]Just like his big self, you know, smiling, happy and then he fades away. So I had no context for this.
[4:27]I wasn't a spiritual person whatsoever.
[4:30]And so I called my ex husband and said, you got to go to the Emmy. I think he's alive. I think he's trying to get out. I think he came to me and I think he's alive.
[4:39]And so he called the Emmy and the Emmy looked and said, I'm sorry, but he's, he's gone and he's not alive. And so, you know, sometimes death is a doorway.
[4:50]That they was a doorway for me into a spiritual life and actually finding out that there is more on the other side.
[4:58]So we don't just die. We don't just disappear. They're there. They're right there on the other side. And so that started this beginning of me becoming clear audience.
[5:10]And I'm beginning to see, to see people on the other side. And of course my son Ben who stayed with me for really one on one stayed with me for a really long time because I was in a really bad place.
[5:24]And I think a lot of parents can really relate to this because either they if you've lost a child, you know how it is.
[5:31]And if you are watching your child go through addiction or illnesses, you know, it's like a little death every day.
[5:39]And so, you know, so here we are trying to figure out what do we do with our grief. How do we deal with this and I did the unexpected. So grieving people are sort of like diverse people.
[5:52]We don't deal well with them in our society. Right. We sort of want to avoid it. So we know that they're life changing events in society.
[6:00]We know marriage and parenthood and we celebrate it's wonderful.
[6:04]Death is also life changing.
[6:06]And it has a lot of energy that we can tap into but we don't want to talk about that.
[6:11]Right. We want to we want to kind of stay away and tell people it's time to move on. It's time to get over it. It's tough. I don't know whose time this is.
[6:20]But for me that timeframe didn't work.
[6:23]So I did the unexpected and unimaginable. I sold all my household goods in my car and I, I ended up traveling the world for two and a half years.
[6:35]And the spiritual leaders all over about grief and death and dying. And what are we supposed to do and how are we supposed to go on. And I thought, well, I'll just write a blog, a travel blog.
[6:46]Right.
[6:47]So meeting with shamans and africa and soupy masters and indian all over and, but it ended up to be so much more.
[6:55]And along the way, I found a shamanic practice with the four winds in Alberta, and it was a beautiful spiritual practice and the book turned into or the blog turned into a book.
[7:07]And the book has 16 practices in it to help people to come from the stuck place of grieving so intensely to becoming lighter and then eventually creating a new life out of the old one.
[7:22]Out of the ashes of the old one that honors our loved one. So we always want to be honoring our loved one. And so everybody stuck somewhere differently.
[7:32]Sometimes it's in judgment.
[7:35]Out of the practices is non judgment. And so from us so beautifully has this thing that I love that you go out into the woods and you look at trees and they're all different.
[7:45]One is twisted this way and once that way, once, high, one's low, one's green, one's not.
[7:51]And we don't judge them.
[7:53]But when it comes to ourselves and to other people, our judging mind come in comes in. And so this practice is a way to look at who are you judging and who's judging you.
[8:06]And how like me do that, you might say, so we want to get out of our everyday mind fighting fear, everything that's in that everyday reptilian sort of brain.
[8:18]We want to move up to our neocortex. This is the place of ceremony. And so what I want people to do is sit in ceremony quietly with a candle, anything else that means quiet and serenity, maybe sage or however you want to do it.
[8:36]And have a piece of paper or a lot, you know, a little notebook and pen and paper, a little pipe hand to hold your candle.
[8:43]And we're going to release our prayers and release our judgment, release our suffering into the flame and let it go to to God universe.
[8:54]So whatever your religious aspect is and we're going to do this in a very ceremonial ways where it can move like a wind blowing feathers in the breeze as opposed to trying to drag along at the physical level.
[9:09]There's lots of books that talk about the things you need to do. You need to go out on a date or you need to go to a movie or you need to do this. And this is how you do it.
[9:17]That's all in this physical realm and it's very hard and so many people tell me, I'm ready, I can't and I understand that I couldn't either.
[9:26]So my book is sort of a precursor to that. Let's find out where we're stuck first.
[9:32]Let's release and release and release all the things we're holding stories, even I should have done this. I should have done that.
[9:40]How many people say I should have made them go to the doctor. I shouldn't have gone to Korea. I should have done right. So we get all of this in our heads.
[9:48]Well, we put it into down right down in paper with the intention of releasing it, letting spirit have that and opening our hearts to new ways of seeing things.
[10:00]We can find that release. We can move on. And not that pain is ever going to go away. I always tell
[10:06]people, I don't have that magic wand. I wish I did. I could tap you in the head. It wouldn't be
[10:11]painful anymore. But pain is the price of love. And so the pain stays with it, but the ruminating
[10:20]and the fear and the anxiety and the judgment, we can release. So what we're left is just missing
[10:28]instead of beating ourselves up. Well, the fact that you have provided this path,
[10:36]this path through what seems like an impossible journey to get through is so amazing.
[10:43]Can you tell me a little more about the spiritual, how you've made sense of connecting
[10:52]with the other side, essentially? And how we all can do that. I think anyone who has lost someone
[10:59]suddenly realizes that there is more and they see signs or they believe when they thought they
[11:06]would never believe. But once a piece of your heart has been carved out of you and gone elsewhere,
[11:13]people quickly say, oh, wait, maybe there is. Maybe I feel it now. So can you give more specifics
[11:20]of how you see how you view that and how you understand now, Ben's appearance to you back then?
[11:28]Yeah. So people always ask this and say, I wish I were like you. I wish I could see my love
[11:33]one and talk to them and speak with them. And so what I like to say is sometimes we have,
[11:38]it's a process. So we all have been raised with this concept that only the facts, right? Our
[11:46]left brain keeps us safe. You know, whatever we can see a sense here touch real and don't rely on
[11:52]your intuition because that will just lead you astray. Now, you know, just go with your brain and
[11:57]with you. So it's that process of opening up and saying, maybe there is more. And it's I always
[12:03]call that frankly freaky discussion that people like us, the ones who have survivors know that we
[12:11]can sense, feel our loved ones around us. And what do we make of that? Sometimes we don't even
[12:18]want to tell our friends and relatives because they're going to say, oh, she's gone over the edge.
[12:23]Right? So there's there's no wind in grieving you. If you don't grieve long enough by some of
[12:28]these standards, they'll say, oh, she doesn't seem to affect her much. And if you grieve too much,
[12:33]then it's that DSM, right? That's diagnostic and statistical manual, you need medication.
[12:40]So, you know, we're kind of in between a rock and a hard place. And what I like to tell people is,
[12:45]you know, tune into yourself. There's no time. We can't tell people how long it is that they're
[12:51]going to grieve or how they're going to grieve. The only person who knows this is us. And if you know
[12:58]that you're on a journey, then you can kind of say, okay, I'm in a journey. I'm on my own journey.
[13:04]And part of this journey is going to be opening up to the other side to not seeing death
[13:12]as this completely horrifying, terrifying experience, but part of life and a transition from one
[13:20]state of being to the other. And as we allow ourselves to relax a little bit, we begin to sense
[13:28]more, see more. And somebody said to me once, I know that my loved ones around when the wind
[13:34]times and there's no wind, right? And so it's those little subtle things. You may not hear their voice
[13:39]or see them physically, but it just may be a touch on your cheek or a wind chime going or a butterfly
[13:47]or something that they loved or something with their name on pops up. So we begin to look for
[13:54]singing chronicities and open up to that. Then we can get in touch with them much easier.
[14:01]And as we do that, as we begin to heal ourselves, we kind of let go of their kind strings
[14:08]a little bit. So we don't want to keep them stuck from all the beautiful things they do on the
[14:13]other side, which Ben tells me all the time, this is not eternal slumber over here, mom, I am
[14:17]really busy. I'm working with ascended masters. I'm going here. I'm going there. I'm doing this
[14:22]and that. And so we want to heal ourselves and become unstuck from our grief so that they too can
[14:29]go a little higher so they can do more of what they what that's possible to do on the other side.
[14:36]Anyway, let's go back to what Ben, the reports from Ben here. Okay, what can we expect on the
[14:43]other side? What's he doing? Do they have days? Like, are there days filled with that? Like, tell me,
[14:49]what do you know that with the rest of us don't know? I want to know this.
[14:53]Okay, so Ben came to me and stayed with me for a really long time. And so in the beginning,
[14:58]he found friends, right? Some other younger people that crossed over and he seemed to have
[15:05]friends that he would travel with. And so they had a good time kind of zooming all over the earth
[15:11]and visiting wherever they wanted to visit. And sometimes I went on vacation to Costa Rica and I was
[15:17]ziplining. And I wasn't going to zipline and all of a sudden I had this thought, I just really
[15:22]have to do this. And I knew that Ben was with me. He was kind of doing it. And all of a sudden I'm
[15:26]upside down and doing these tricks. And I'm like, Ben, please, I'm like 65. Don't kill me here.
[15:34]So in the beginning, I think it was that excitement of, oh my god, I'm so free. I'm free at this
[15:39]body. I'm free at this. I can go anywhere and do anything. And then later it seemed to be that he
[15:45]was in pods of learning with ascended masters. So one time, so one time, as always, you know,
[15:51]it's death day and birthdays that are really hard for people. And so I'm, it was a death day.
[15:58]And I said, oh, this is so sad, Ben. I really need to come visit me and he shows up and he says,
[16:01]mom quit ringing my doorbell. You know, I'm fine. And I'm in the Jesus pot. And we weren't
[16:08]particularly religious. And he's not like anything in the Bible. But I'm in this pot and we're
[16:12]learning. And, and so don't ring my doorbell. You're fine. You're fine. And don't easily. And
[16:18]they actually said, you're kind of being a bummer about this. You know, this whole sadness thing
[16:23]where you're going over the top when you know very well, then I'm perfectly fine and happy.
[16:28]So that was another sort of instruction to me that maybe we kind of are looking at this in the wrong way.
[16:34]Maybe we're kind of being a bummer. We've been so socialized and conditioned to seeing death is sad
[16:41]and morbid and in the holidays and what it gets all sad and morbid. And the first thing you know,
[16:46]nobody wants to talk about it. Or I don't want to talk about you to want, what if it,
[16:51]what if we're seeing it wrong? What if it could be a celebration? What if it could be
[16:57]bring them into the party instead of this over-the-top sadness and despair and helplessness. And so
[17:04]lots of lots of good information from Ben about is only, I think sometimes only a 27 year old
[17:11]guy can tell his mom, like mom you need to, you need to knock it off.
[17:17]Why are you covering him on a doorbell, right? And so I think maybe we need to hear that.
[17:23]Wow. How am I going to say? You know, you wrote about Ben's struggles sort of on earth,
[17:30]right? Before he passed away and how he kind of never felt at peace with his body that he had
[17:37]his spine required surgery, his feet, that he may actually have had this other diagnosis that
[17:44]you found out after he passed away. Right. And he just like never felt like he fit in. Do you feel
[17:50]like the peace you feel at his passing is related to him feeling like he has found a spot for himself
[17:56]or he doesn't know he doesn't have to deal with his body or is there anything related to that or
[18:01]maybe I'm just being crazy. Yeah. Oh, I think I think that's exactly right. I think
[18:06]and I think anybody who has physical issues, a friend of mine has a son that was in so much pain
[18:13]and that pain is life from that he actually committed suicide. But on the other side, free and happy.
[18:19]And so I think sometimes, you know, the physical body, the emotional body, all the things that
[18:25]are happening and fitting into society and young people are trying to understand this world,
[18:31]this gone so crazy environmentally and in every which way. And so they're free of this. And I think
[18:38]I if I could say about Ben, he's so much happier now than when he was in the earth. He just
[18:45]never fit. He would try to send him to camp and he wanted to stay home. He's like, mom, no. And I said,
[18:51]you got to, you know, go to school and you've got to, you know, succeed and you've got all these
[18:55]things you've got to do. And he said, I'm not going to be here that long, mom. And this is when he was
[19:00]eight or nine. And I say, no, don't be silly. Of course you are. You know, you got to do this,
[19:04]you got to do that. But I think he always knew something. I didn't know that he came into this
[19:09]lifetime to cure this karmic situation and to learn and grow and to leave and maybe help me to become
[19:20]a spiritual person, maybe open the doorway for me and for my daughter and our family. And all
[19:26]those that I can touch with this book that I can help become unstuck, that they too can change their
[19:35]perception and and find their lives again, these lives that are so precious. One thing the death
[19:43]teaches us is how precious life is. And so to get back and touch with life in a way that
[19:51]honors them and free them to to go about what they're doing on the other side. Do people ever tell
[20:00]who, like, that you're nuts, like you said that.
[20:03]And totally don't believe you.
[20:05]And like, what is up with this woman and all of that?
[20:08]You must get, I mean, there are skeptics out there.
[20:11]Oh, we're sure all the time.
[20:13]And so I left a very left brain world.
[20:15]So I was a federal administrative law judge,
[20:18]a lawyer for many years.
[20:19]And suddenly I find this shaman's path
[20:22]and I, my son passes and I go off around the world.
[20:25]So yeah, people thought I was totally crazy.
[20:27]In fact, people went to my daughter and said,
[20:31]some friends of mine and said,
[20:32]you know, your mother's grieving
[20:33]and she's not in her right mind
[20:35]and she's gonna really regret this.
[20:36]I had a lifetime appointment.
[20:38]And my daughter said, well, I think my mother
[20:41]should shake her rattle and release her inner butterfly.
[20:45]Right?
[20:46]And so beautiful because she's an engineer,
[20:48]very left brain and where that came from.
[20:51]But, but totally supportive of me and this journey.
[20:55]And yeah, so lots of people think I'm crazy,
[20:58]but it's the funniest thing
[20:59]that people thought that I think
[21:01]and that it thought that I was the craziest
[21:04]come to me kind of secretly.
[21:05]And can you, can you do a session for me?
[21:08]Can you look at this?
[21:10]Can you see, can you look even like my bottle cup?
[21:13]Can you look at my last, my wedding break?
[21:15]Can you look for that?
[21:17]And so sometimes I can find things, right?
[21:19]So, so even the people that are,
[21:22]sometimes even those people,
[21:24]that are the most critical,
[21:26]are the ones that'll come in the back way.
[21:30]They don't know what anybody to know,
[21:32]they've come to see me or see a shaman, right?
[21:34]So lots of times,
[21:36]shamans are kind of the last resort.
[21:38]When the doctors don't work
[21:39]and the psychologists don't work
[21:41]and the psychiatrists don't work, what's left?
[21:45]So, they will turn to a spiritual person.
[21:47]What, what is the technical definition
[21:50]or the technical difference between a shaman and a medium?
[21:54]Oh gosh, yeah.
[21:56]So, mediums, I do a lot of mediumship too
[21:59]and I'm trained as a medium,
[22:00]but mediums deal with getting messages from the other side
[22:04]and that's sort of their exclusive bailiwick
[22:07]finding where the person is
[22:09]or where they went or what they want
[22:10]or answering a question.
[22:12]But shamans do a lot of other things.
[22:14]We work in the energy field,
[22:15]the luminous energy field.
[22:17]And you kind of know that you have it
[22:19]but you don't think about it.
[22:20]And you notice it's gone when you see someone who's passed
[22:24]and they don't have that spark of life.
[22:26]They don't have that energy,
[22:27]the electrons, neutrons,
[22:29]everything that's firing and wiring together.
[22:32]And so, that's where shamans work.
[22:34]We look for imprints.
[22:35]We help heal past, the past, old stories
[22:40]that may be repeating patterns that are keeping us stuck.
[22:45]We look for entities or energies, dark entities
[22:48]or energies that might have invaded.
[22:49]We pick up all kinds of things.
[22:51]We go to bars or we go to restaurants.
[22:53]There are little things that we pick up.
[22:55]And shamans can get rid of those,
[22:56]remove those heavy energies.
[22:58]Souls, as we go through life and are wounded
[23:03]and things happen to us,
[23:04]we lose our soul parts.
[23:07]And the parts that we lose are the healed parts.
[23:10]The healed parts that couldn't take the trauma
[23:13]and go in the Indian mythology
[23:15]to live in the underworld and are kept safe there
[23:19]until we're ready to call them back.
[23:22]And so bringing those soul parts back
[23:25]and allowing someone to feel whole again is so important.
[23:30]And helping people to die.
[23:31]And I do a lot of helping with people to transition
[23:35]and also helping with survivors.
[23:36]I really focused a lot on survivors in my book.
[23:40]But helping, you know, a lot with suicides
[23:44]because a lot of people have been given this false impression
[23:48]that if you commit suicide, you're going to hell
[23:50]and that there's actually hell.
[23:52]I've never found hell anywhere,
[23:54]but spirits some kind of get stuck in fear
[23:56]and don't want to go to the light
[23:57]and don't want to cross over.
[23:59]So this is a place where Ben and I can help them,
[24:02]then we'll say, hey, come on, I'll show you the way
[24:04]and I can open up the portal and help them to go.
[24:07]So I know it sounds a little freaky,
[24:09]but it's sort of my world now.
[24:13]So if I want a session or something,
[24:16]you just book sessions with you and we do all of that.
[24:20]I can do all that.
[24:21]Yeah, Karen Johnson.net is my website.
[24:25]And so people can go there and sign up for a session with me
[24:29]or I have some free things coming up
[24:31]in November and December of prayer ceremony
[24:33]for anybody who's lost someone.
[24:35]It's a layer.
[24:36]We celebrate the layers of their lives.
[24:39]And non-suffering, how can we not suffer?
[24:42]How can we release our suffering?
[24:45]So there's some free things coming up in November and December
[24:47]and I have a five week class in starting in January.
[24:51]We'll go through my book.
[24:53]So it's based on the medicine wheel and 16 practices.
[24:56]So medicine wheel has four directions.
[25:00]And so each week we're gonna go through four practices
[25:04]and a direction.
[25:05]So at the end, people can get to that place of rebirth,
[25:11]creating a new life out of the ashes of the old one.
[25:14]All right, well, I might have to book a session.
[25:16]All right, sounds fantastic.
[25:18]I know, I'm excited.
[25:19]Do you know that Laura Lynn Johnson,
[25:21]who writes about signs, she's an author.
[25:24]Well, I'm sure that will not have to look around.
[25:26]She came on my podcast and she sees signs everywhere
[25:30]and is a medium and all that.
[25:32]And I said, when I was, she was on the podcast,
[25:36]I was like, well, if anyone just comes in,
[25:38]just let me know to our little podcast.
[25:40]And she was like, actually, your grandmother,
[25:42]very rudely has sort of barged her way in.
[25:44]She's been pestering me all day.
[25:45]And I was like, that does sound like my grandmother.
[25:48]Anyway, she told me she had come on a certain day
[25:51]because that day had significance.
[25:52]And I said, no, it really doesn't.
[25:54]And it wasn't until later that day
[25:56]that I realized that my mother had dropped off,
[25:58]my grandmother's ashes that morning in my, to my house.
[26:02]So that was, anyway, it's not crazy.
[26:04]So anyway, anyway, anyway, I believe in all of it.
[26:06]I believe in, you know, but then I have people
[26:09]on my podcast too, like Neil deGrasse Tyson,
[26:12]the scientist who says there was nothing there before.
[26:15]There is nothing there after.
[26:18]What do you think of that?
[26:19]Yeah, well, I think that quantum physics,
[26:22]he needs to learn a little more about quantum physics
[26:26]or focus a little more of this.
[26:28]That energy feel that consciousness,
[26:31]that collective that's there and has always been there
[26:34]and always will be there and thrust to tap into.
[26:37]So whether you wanna call it soul
[26:39]or you wanna call it God or you wanna just call it
[26:42]this collective consciousness,
[26:44]quantum physics is supporting what shamans
[26:48]and other energy healers knew all along,
[26:51]but didn't know what to call it.
[26:53]So I think that maybe that's old science,
[26:58]new science is supporting other ways
[27:01]of looking at things and including existence.
[27:06]So for people who are missing their loved ones today,
[27:09]what do you say to them?
[27:11]Gosh, know that they're there
[27:14]and but know that they know already know that you love them,
[27:19]that you don't need to suffer anymore,
[27:21]you don't need to hold on to prove to them anything
[27:24]or anybody, anything,
[27:26]and that you're healing will allow them to go
[27:29]and be free and do what they need to do on the other side.
[27:33]So sometimes if you can't heal for yourself,
[27:36]heal for your loved one,
[27:37]don't we always do that as moms?
[27:40]And do for ourselves, we'll do for our kids.
[27:43]And so this is one more opportunity
[27:45]to kind of do for your kid.
[27:49]Karen, thank you for sharing your experience with grief,
[27:53]with how to navigate through it
[27:57]and learn more about it
[27:59]than we never thought possible
[28:00]and sharing Ben's story with the rest of us.
[28:04]And I know you have found all the good
[28:08]and have made this whole life for yourself,
[28:09]but I am sorry for you and him that he's not here,
[28:13]but maybe that's the way it was supposed to be
[28:16]or I feel like you've made so much peace with us
[28:18]that I hate to even say I'm sorry
[28:20]when this might be the way it was supposed to go.
[28:22]But anyway, thank you for sharing the whole experience
[28:25]and dedicating your life
[28:26]to helping so many other people are having me
[28:29]and I appreciate it.
[28:30]Jeff, sorry.
[28:31]All right, take care.
[28:32]Thank you so much.
[28:33]I'm gonna schedule a session.
[28:34]Okay, okay, bye bye.
[28:38]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[28:40]Don't have time to read books.
[28:41]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[28:44]at Zebi Owens and at Moms.
[28:45]Don't have time to read books.
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[28:49]and sign up for my virtual book club
[28:51]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[28:53]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[28:56]for the Sound Editing.
[28:57]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[28:59]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.