Justine Bateman, FACE: One Square Foot of Skin
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[0:58]Justine Bateman is the author of Face, One Square Foot of Skin.
[1:02]Justine is a writer, director, producer, with an impressive decades-long resume in film and TV that includes a golden globe nomination and two Emmy nominations.
[1:12]Bateman wrote and produced her directorial film short debut five minutes, which premiered at the 2017 Toronto Film Festival and was chosen by seven more festivals, including the 2018 Tribeca Film Festival.
[1:25]Violet Bateman's critically acclaimed directorial feature film debut of her own script stars Olivia Munn, Luke Bracey and Justin Throw, and was an official selection at the 2021 South by Southwest Film Festival, and the 2021 Toronto Film Festival.
[1:40]Her best-selling first book, Fame, the hijacking of reality, was published in 2018 by Akashik.
[1:47]Face One Square Foot of Skin is her latest work, and you may know, justine as one of the stars of the old sitcom Family Ties.
[1:56]Welcome, Justine. Thank you so much for coming on mom.
[1:58]Have time to read books to discuss the paperback launch of Face One Square Foot of Skin.
[2:04]Thank you.
[2:05]Okay. Why write face and why did you choose to do it with a series of vignettes about different people's experiences and how did you come up with this whole concept?
[2:16]Sure. Well, when I was writing my first book, Fame, the hijacking of reality, which is about the life cycle of fame, if people are interested in that.
[2:24]I was a sociological standpoint and also from experience because I was very famous years ago.
[2:30]So for part of that research, I was googling my name. I wanted to look something up, and the auto complete was looks old.
[2:36]At the time, this was, um, 14, 16 years ago. So I didn't yet have like this or so I was like, really? I was like 40, 42.
[2:51]Anyway, there were so many of them and just one of me. So I made a very big mistake of making them right and me wrong.
[3:00]And it really it affected me more deeply and for a long period of time than I ever could have expected it to. But so I had to like I do with anything that pushes my buttons.
[3:10]I had to figure out what my, what my core fear was about it. What, you know, oh, if people think I look old, then therefore like what was the completion of that sentence for me, because I knew that that was really the problem, not this skin on my face.
[3:24]I knew that the underlying fear was. So I wanted to get rid of that because that's basically my life school is to get rid of all my buttons.
[3:31]Everybody can say anything, do anything to me. And I'll just it'll be like the, the adults in the peanuts cartoon, you know, wow, wow, wow, I won't even understand what they're saying.
[3:40]What do you think that that is even possible? Like are there people who don't have buttons to push?
[3:45]Well, I have, I have eliminated an enormous number of buttons by doing this.
[3:51]100%. And honestly, I don't think someone can really become themselves until they eliminate a majority of their buttons. I just don't because otherwise you are people pleasing to varying degrees.
[4:04]But because you're acting out of, I mean, I know for myself, I was acting out of fear, I make a decision based in fear, which is what violence about the film I did.
[4:14]So I want to check that out.
[4:17]Yeah.
[4:19]So once I got through what was my underlying fear with regards to my face, looking older people just saying it looked older, whether or not it looked older at the time, I then started thinking about society as a whole, like, what underlying fears do we hold as a group that are supporting this idea that women's faces are broken and have to be fixed.
[4:41]And at any age, like a woman at any age now, it's assumed that their face is broken and
[4:49]has to be fixed. So that's what the book is about. It gets into some of the possible reasons why
[4:55]somebody has unconsciously, consciously or unconsciously adopted a fear about their face changing
[5:04]that then caused them to, you know, walk around in shame and eliminate sort of pursuing opportunities
[5:11]that are coming their way, like, oh, I can't because I'm older, you know, that kind of thinking.
[5:15]Yeah. So, you know, something as simple as maybe for somebody, it's that all the fairy tales,
[5:21]they, not all of them, but most of the fairy tales that they read as a kid, the villain is an old woman.
[5:27]Now, I'm not advocating that fairy tales go away, not at all, but I'm saying for somebody,
[5:32]like, could that be the reason? You unconsciously adopted that idea. So now when you start looking
[5:38]somewhere in your mind, you're going, oh, wow, now I'm the villain. And I don't want people to think
[5:45]I'm the villain. So I must, my must change my face. Perhaps that's true for somebody, you know,
[5:51]so that's what the book goes into. And it's based on my experiences and feelings on the topic and
[5:56]those of about 20 people I interviewed. Have you thought about doing like an accompaniment called
[6:01]hair? Because I'm sort of in like this fact finding now that I have to spend all this time covering
[6:06]up all my gray hair. It's like anyone I meet who has a whole white hair. I'm like, okay, tell me
[6:11]about that. Like, why did you decide to let your hair go gray? You know, because it's, I think it's a
[6:14]corollary on this, right? Because it shows your age. There are ways you disguise your age in ways you
[6:20]don't. But do you follow on Instagram? My aunt, Zilberman, no, Zilberman. She has the most, she's
[6:31]in her 40s, I guess. And she's had gray hair for a long time, but it's like silver. It's so cool.
[6:36]I mean, I love my gray hair because I think it looks like, it looks like I had little silver
[6:45]pieces woven into my hair. I think it looks rad. Well, anyway, I won't go into that. I have a whole
[6:51]plan for the layers of color. I would have in my hair if my hair went all gray. Like, I mean,
[6:58]I can't do it yet. But if it went all gray, like I have this plan, you know, what color I would have
[7:04]like the tips and this section and stuff. And I think it looks cool. But I mean, that's, you know,
[7:10]if somebody doesn't think that, then isn't that something for them to look out? Like, what's
[7:16]underneath that? That's what I'm, that's what I'm looking at. What's underneath that. And then
[7:20]whether or not they die, they're here, whatever. But it's an opportunity to get rid of a fear that
[7:25]may be driving other decisions in your life that you may or may not actually want to be taking.
[7:31]I mean, I feel like part of it is like just this age-old fear of mortality itself, right? Maybe,
[7:38]I don't know. I don't, where are you closer to death right now than you were at 20? Do you actually
[7:43]know that though? You don't. Cause you don't die at 20 all the time. You could have been hit by a
[7:49]cart 20 and died. Or you could live to be 95 years old. You don't know. You're right. So I always
[7:55]say there's two ages dead in a life. Yeah. No, I just meant, I thought maybe that was like the
[8:01]root. Not, not just. I feel like, I feel like any day could be my last. I live every day. Like,
[8:06]I've had to a lot of people die very suddenly. So I'm like, okay, well, I made it through today.
[8:12]That was good. Let's see how tomorrow goes. Yeah. But you're right. That could be the reason for
[8:17]somebody. And if that is, then that's something to sort of write about journal about and go like,
[8:23]why, what, how is it serving me to hold on to that idea? Like, we don't hold on to ideas or fears
[8:30]unless some part of us feels like it's serving us. And for me, oftentimes I find it's an irrational
[8:37]reason. It's an irrational rationale. But I need to like, and I find that in writing it or saying
[8:43]it out loud to somebody, it allows it to begin to erode just by virtue of having
[8:51]broken it up. You know, totally. I feel like I felt the worst for Donna in all of these stories
[8:57]who went back to her high school reunion and had so many people like talk be so nice and like
[9:03]falling all over her. And then of course, as soon as she was somewhere else and thinking that
[9:07]she was in the bathroom forever. And so over hearing guys talking about her girl is talking about
[9:12]her. And then of course, turning around and being nice again. It's the worst. It's,
[9:16]well, let me tell you about that one. Okay. For anyone who hasn't read it yet,
[9:20]this is a story about a woman who's like very famous like Julie Roberts level famous and goes back
[9:25]to her high school reunion. And yeah, like Zippy said, they, they're like, oh my god, I can't believe
[9:30]you're here. This is amazing. And then she goes to go to the restroom and on her way to the restroom,
[9:35]she hears some guys talking, you know, in the hall and the lock by lockers. And she kind of
[9:41]of smiles like she thinks they're kind of talking about her. And then she realizes that they're
[9:45]they're like tearing her face apart. And she starts feeling pantry panicky and then goes into
[9:50]the bathroom and goes into stall and like is gathering herself and then some women come into
[9:56]the bathroom. They don't know she's in there. And they are at the sink having a conversation.
[10:00]done about her face. All the dialogue of what the men say in the hallway and what the women
[10:08]say in the bathroom is cut and paced from message boards where people were talking about
[10:13]my face. Stop it. Seriously? Yeah. Cut and paste. Yeah. So that's what if anybody's curious
[10:24]what people are saying about my face. That the Donna story is exactly. That was those
[10:31]recommendations about Justin Bateman's face. One was from like a mommy. I discerned it with sort of a
[10:36]mommy blog kind of place. And the other was from a sports related site. So I assume it's all guys.
[10:42]Maybe it's not, but I can assume that I think. Isn't it crazy how much people care about your face
[10:48]or that everybody would take that there would be all these message blogs even about about it?
[10:53]Yeah. I mean, it's something I think they should talk to their therapist about. That's kind of
[10:57]weird. So is the comment that happens at the end where Donna sort of retaliates and like says
[11:03]is that what you wish you said to the people in the message boards? Oh, I guess it would be fun too.
[11:08]But the thing about that is you sure say a lot of things online that you wouldn't say to somebody's
[11:13]face. True. No, but you know what? I don't care. No, I think what I would say to them is just like
[11:18]I feel really bad for you because I know that's what you say to yourself when you look
[11:22]in the mirror. I mean, all truth. Like not as a, not as a clapback or bullshit or whatever.
[11:29]But honestly, if somebody, you will respond to people in the same way you respond to yourself.
[11:35]Yes. There's a lot of projection. Someone, you have someone's criticizing anything of,
[11:42]not anything about me. If someone looks like giving like an honest insightful critique of,
[11:46]you know, my writing or my films, maybe there's something in there. But I mean, I mean, if
[11:51]someone's just being, you know, critical with no basis, then they're just telling me about
[11:58]themselves. They're not telling me anything about me. So true. I feel like they should teach kids
[12:05]that, you know, let's start early here. Yeah, you tell the kids. They're telling you about themselves.
[12:14]Yeah. It's the same thing. Like, I don't know. When you tell someone you're getting divorced or
[12:18]something like that, and everyone's reaction, it's just like a war shark test for their own feelings
[12:23]about their own marriage. If you want to know how everybody feels about their own marriage,
[12:27]tell them you're getting divorced and you will find out some really interesting things.
[12:30]Just throw it out there.
[12:34]No, like the people who start like sobbing, you know, so people just like burst into too many people.
[12:41]People think that they're afraid that that's going to happen to them next or something or what
[12:45]or they wish or they feel so trapped. They feel so trapped that like it just reflects on what
[12:51]they wish they could do, or like versus other people who are like, oh yeah, how do you feel about
[12:56]that? It just says so much. I don't know, be your next little experiment. I don't even know why
[13:04]we're talking about this. But anyway, I read face and then I have the book obviously into my hand,
[13:10]but fame, I didn't have the physical copy. So I was wearing my reading glasses, hashtag aging,
[13:16]again, and I was wearing my glasses. So anyway, I think like hashtag, I look bitch in.
[13:23]Okay, hashtag, I look bitch in. But anyway, I was wearing my reading glasses and downling it
[13:29]on my phone. And it was so funny because it says face not recognized. And I was like, this is so
[13:34]perfect. You know how like you couldn't you couldn't they couldn't see my eyes. So all of our
[13:41]changing faces, it's a I think how everybody's handling aging, which happens to everybody is one
[13:47]of the more fascinating things. So I love how you really do a deep dive. And even the men, right?
[13:52]The one that I say you had in face about the like pop bellied thin thinning hair like
[13:59]attractive man being like, Oh, yeah, like I wouldn't even do her anymore. And you're like,
[14:04]like she would do you like what on earth? Why do you think you have that choice all the time?
[14:08]But that's, you know, I look at, you know, I there are a lot of things that men do that I
[14:17]aspire to like that men can be just feel like like that like, yeah, I do or
[14:26]like wow, they knew the confidence, the assumption of ranking that that is necessary to make that
[14:37]kind of comment. Like that's some that's a that's a level of confidence. Like I would love to have
[14:43]love to have that. I want it. I want it. So yeah, it's it's interesting. It's really it's really
[14:51]interesting. In fame, you start off by talking about your not so fondness of memoirs, although
[15:00]you said it in a different way. But and how you just you were determined not to write a memoir and
[15:04]how the publishing people actually really fought against that and everybody wanted to make
[15:09]you write a memoir. And it took a while for you to find like the right home for your book.
[15:13]Like tell me about that. Oh, sure. So first it was finding a book agent. And yeah, like you said,
[15:19]the book agents were like, I mean, at first this was a fame was an academic version. And
[15:25]I was, you know, I'd written this long proposal. And I was, you know, I've begun writing it, of course,
[15:31]and went around and they look at the proposal and stuff. And then they were like,
[15:36]when should we have the right of memoir? And I was like, no, I'm writing a sociological look at
[15:42]the life cycle of fame, the beginning, the equilibrium, and then the fading of it. And then the
[15:48]without. I zest what the books about. And they're like, wouldn't you rather write a memoir?
[15:54]I'm like, no, so I kept just meeting different book agents. And finally, I met one book agent
[16:01]who goes, oh, I get what this is. Let's yeah, let's do it. And he's no Chomsky's book agent.
[16:08]And I'm like, me and no Chomsky. Come on. Yes. And then same thing with the publishers. I mean,
[16:16]like I say in the book, you know, went around like big publishing houses. And yeah, same,
[16:23]same thing, wouldn't you rather write a memoir? And I think it's, look, I'm not, I'm not that
[16:28]even though I published two books. I'm not that familiar with like the book business. Like, I
[16:33]wasn't in the book business before. I hadn't seen a change, you know, of course, I consume,
[16:38]you know, read books. But it seems really hard right now. Like, I'm sure they'd rather have
[16:43]something that is that slides into a particular genre that they're accustomed to selling.
[16:49]They know what to do with those. They know what the book tour is going to look like. They know
[16:54]which outlets do well with memoirs and etc. But you're like, you've got like an act either an
[16:59]academic version of fame or, you know, when I realized in the middle of one of those meetings,
[17:04]like, oh, wow, I need to change the format into more stream of consciousness, more like
[17:11]a hundred times in Michael hair. Like, it's kind of direction. And that's what it became then
[17:18]with that academic version structure underneath it, though. Yeah. And then, and then same thing,
[17:23]you know, I meant a publisher who just goes, yeah, I get what this is. I love it. And I was like,
[17:29]oh, great. So I gotta tell you, like, I don't even know what I should really have in a publishing
[17:35]contract because my publisher's Johnny Temple at Akashic books has been like everybody there's
[17:42]been so lovely and so their notes are so in line with what the intent is of the book. So the
[17:50]notes then just make the book better, you know, instead of making it something else. So I've never
[17:55]had to, I've never had to refer back to the agreement. That's a good thing. That's a good thing.
[18:02]Yeah. It's a good thing. But then again, if, you know, if they ever like went away and I had to
[18:06]have another publisher, I wouldn't know what I need to have. Whereas there are other situations like
[18:11]in filmmaking where I have like long list of notes is like, here's what you, you know, but only
[18:18]because I've had like situations where I had to refer back to the agreement and then just went,
[18:23]shit, why don't I have this accommodation, this accommodation, this accommodation, dammit, dammit,
[18:27]because contracts are from when people lose their minds, not for when everyone's asking reasonably.
[18:32]True. I do think that publishing contracts are not the same, like it's not like you're going to get
[18:38]a private car or like they're not going to put any of that stuff.
[18:41]I don't know. I don't mean things like that. I mean, like deadlines, approval of the cover art.
[18:47]Oh, yeah. The blurbs, approval of the tour plan, you know, the press. I mean, all this kind of
[18:57]of stuff that makes like a fight a different cover. I mean, sure, there are there are
[19:01]multitude of other covers I could have had, but there's so many covers where they're not into,
[19:07]you know, I said that you can tell a book by its cover. I think you can tell the marketing team by
[19:10]the cover. But what's inside the book might be really good, but the cover is shitty.
[19:16]You can pick it up or the cover is really great and you look inside and you're like,
[19:20]mmm, good marketing campaign.
[19:25]So were you involved in doing the cover or did you have choices or why design the cover of both
[19:30]the books? I went to a plastic surgeon and asked him to give me a consultation and then to mark
[19:35]up my face the way with whatever he was going to do to if, you know, if I was going into surgery.
[19:40]Yeah. And then my friend Stephen Myers was took the picture and he took the author picture as
[19:46]well. Yeah. And then this around here with this kind of font to me suggests you're in a hole
[19:54]and you're being stepped on. Yeah. Yeah, that was it.
[20:00]I love it.
[20:01]Well, it came off looking great.
[20:03]It's really awesome.
[20:05]I think it matches the content if you want my humble opinion.
[20:08]Yeah, right, right.
[20:09]Yeah, that's what you want, right?
[20:11]You want to imagine this is what you're going to get.
[20:13]This kind of style, this kind of message.
[20:17]So yeah, make it easy for the reader,
[20:19]like what are we diving into, right?
[20:22]So I feel like it's interesting in both face and fame.
[20:25]You're taking things that other people take for granted, right?
[20:29]And you're just like stepping back.
[20:31]Like I feel like you're like zooming out
[20:33]and taking stock of the whole thing.
[20:35]Like, okay, here's my face,
[20:36]but let's talk about face and aging.
[20:38]Like here's my fame, but really I'm more interested
[20:41]in like what makes a person famous or why,
[20:43]what is it giving all the people who have other famous people
[20:47]to revere and like why is it like a crush?
[20:49]And what is it doing for them, right?
[20:51]So I feel like you must do this with everything in your life.
[20:54]Like what else do you zoom out and think about like that?
[20:57]That's funny that you say that.
[20:58]No, ever since I was a kid, I've always, you know,
[21:01]looked at somebody and just wondered about like,
[21:04]wow, why did they just stand like that?
[21:07]Or look at somebody's clothes,
[21:10]like their sweater and go like, okay, at some point
[21:15]they didn't have that sweater.
[21:18]But then did they see that sweater in a picture?
[21:20]And they said I want to buy that sweater
[21:23]or were they just out shopping for sweaters
[21:25]and they found it or were they not shopping for sweaters?
[21:30]And they saw it and they're like, you know, in person.
[21:34]And then did they try it on or did they get it immediately?
[21:38]Or if they did try it on, did they try and go like,
[21:40]wow, this makes me look like, you know, fill in the blank.
[21:44]And now every time they put the sweater on,
[21:45]does it make them feel that way?
[21:47]Or did somebody leave that sweater at their house?
[21:51]And they wear it because they feel guilty
[21:54]that they're not nice to that friend anymore.
[21:57]And by, you know what I mean?
[21:59]Like there's, oh, there's so many reasons
[22:03]for everything or there's kind of a story behind everything.
[22:07]So yeah, I do trip out on that.
[22:10]Or there's other things like if science is interesting
[22:13]to anybody, you know, you can really trip out on shit
[22:17]with science like, I don't know, cloud formation
[22:21]or the content of the air or I don't know.
[22:26]You just go like, oh my God, you know that
[22:28]or you start thinking about like what's under the streets?
[22:32]Yeah, systems that are under the streets.
[22:34]And if you've ever played like Sims game or something,
[22:36]we have to set up a world, you know,
[22:39]the infrastructure under the streets.
[22:42]Yeah, there's a lot of interesting stuff.
[22:43]Or like if you look, if you're in a flower store
[22:46]and you just look at all the different flowers,
[22:49]if it was your job to come up with different flowers,
[22:52]would you have come up with all these combinations of,
[22:55]I mean, some of them are just crazy, crazy.
[22:59]Like, you know, the, I forget all the names of the flower parts
[23:04]but let's just the center pieces
[23:06]that have the pollen on them, okay?
[23:08]I know somebody's gonna put in the comments.
[23:10]Okay, it's okay.
[23:11]I'm not in them.
[23:13]But that there's some flowers where at the tip
[23:15]of each one of those little, you know, long pieces,
[23:19]there's another little flower at the top of each one of those.
[23:22]Like, is it called a stamen?
[23:25]Or did I just totally make that word up?
[23:27]I think I might have just made that up.
[23:28]Well, anyway, whatever it doesn't matter.
[23:30]That might be right.
[23:31]I don't know.
[23:32]But yeah, it's crazy.
[23:33]Yeah, I do.
[23:34]And I love, like, I love learning about little pockets
[23:36]of our society, like the rodeo circuit.
[23:39]I dated someone who was a rodeo cowboy once.
[23:41]And that whole, that's a whole society, a whole world.
[23:46]I love how you just threw that in.
[23:48]I mean, that could be a whole thing in and of itself.
[23:51]Dave, you're ready, okay?
[23:52]That's what I mean.
[23:53]I keep my private life, so, you know, I'm getting,
[23:56]yeah, there's so many things.
[23:56]I mean, I could go on and on and on about,
[23:58]I was just at a Chanel fashion show
[24:00]that my friend works at Chanel,
[24:02]and so that's how I got to enjoy that.
[24:04]I think it's pretty hard to get those invites.
[24:06]And I was talking to these women who collect Chanel clothes
[24:10]and accessories and purses and everything.
[24:13]And it was really interesting.
[24:15]Like, they eat, they're curators
[24:17]of these little tiny museums, you know what I mean?
[24:21]Of all these, like, really beautiful, beautifully constructed.
[24:25]You know, they're like, it's like being a car collector
[24:28]or something, you know, when you're collecting something
[24:29]like that, that's that well made
[24:31]and has that kind of history.
[24:33]And yeah, I love pockets of, which, I mean,
[24:36]which is good news for me as a screenwriter
[24:38]because I love doing research.
[24:40]Like, I'm writing a script right now
[24:41]where the research is pretty interesting
[24:44]and into the influencer world.
[24:47]Oh, that sounds good.
[24:48]Yeah, then the research is really interesting.
[24:51]Have you listened to Joe Piazza's podcast
[24:53]under the influence?
[24:55]You should listen to it.
[24:56]It's really, it's really good.
[24:58]She goes sort of underground and like,
[25:01]finds all these influencers and does a whole podcast.
[25:04]And I remember listening to it when I had COVID
[25:06]and like in like my haze, I was like,
[25:09]oh, that's cool, like to know it.
[25:11]Maybe I should apply, you know,
[25:12]this is a couple years ago.
[25:13]This sounds fun.
[25:15]And then like totally forgot about it.
[25:17]And then months later, I get some email like, congratulations.
[25:20]You've been excited.
[25:21]I was like, what?
[25:22]I was like, oh my gosh.
[25:23]Was that what I was listening to Joe's podcast?
[25:25]I'm going to apply to it.
[25:26]I applied to it.
[25:27]Now I have a, now I have a thing.
[25:29]I don't know really much.
[25:30]If you are an infomercial sales.
[25:32]I am, I am an influencer.
[25:33]I am.
[25:34]Yeah.
[25:35]And one of everyone's a salesman.
[25:37]And by the way, I saw this sweater in a store
[25:42]when I was not shopping.
[25:43]And I was like, that's cute.
[25:44]And I did not try it on, but I always remember it
[25:46]because I was walking around with my husband that day.
[25:49]And I remember exactly where I was
[25:50]and how it was a beautiful sunny summer day.
[25:51]And I think back and remember that wonderful moment
[25:54]every time I wear my sweater.
[25:56]And you are, you are a collection of all the books you've read.
[26:00]Yes, your sweater and its multitude of colors
[26:04]is a collection of everything behind you.
[26:07]That's true.
[26:08]I matched today.
[26:08]Look at that.
[26:09]Yeah.
[26:10]Yeah.
[26:12]OK, what's coming next for you?
[26:14]What's the next exciting thing?
[26:17]We're casting right now the film version of face.
[26:20]So face or stories.
[26:23]So I adapted 14 of them.
[26:25]And I'd love to do a series after the film
[26:29]that films the rest of them.
[26:31]That would be cool.
[26:32]So that's coming together right now.
[26:34]And I'm also, like I said, writing that script,
[26:36]the influencer script.
[26:37]And then I have a bunch of other scripts
[26:39]that I'm, you know, are in varying stages of inching forward.
[26:43]But it's really a process, you know?
[26:47]Every film, every film, every book, every song.
[26:52]I mean, I don't know that much about the music world,
[26:54]but like a lot of work went into not only the project itself,
[27:00]but getting it made, I mean, it's a long slog.
[27:06]You know, sometimes you see these people accepting
[27:09]Oscars and they say, you know, they're like,
[27:12]oh, you know, what are the tears away?
[27:14]They're like, this took 10 years to bake.
[27:16]And you know, not that many people can relate to it
[27:18]unless you've had to do that yourself.
[27:20]Imagine you just like hammer at it like every day,
[27:24]every day, every day.
[27:27]I guess sometimes it could be two steps for one step back.
[27:29]But my experience with film producing is that it's,
[27:32]it's not two steps for one step back.
[27:34]It's half a step forward.
[27:36]And then of course, when then half a step forward
[27:38]and half a step forward, you're just like,
[27:40]why is this taking us off?
[27:43]But, you know, it's worth it.
[27:46]I mean, I really don't have any choice.
[27:48]This is my path, you know?
[27:51]At least you got into the very speedy world
[27:53]of book publishing as a backstop.
[27:55]About that.
[27:56]I mean, yeah, and that one too.
[27:58]I mean, at least that one, I guess because I'm, you know,
[28:01]I have like a great situation with my publisher and my agent.
[28:05]That one just is like a tremendously long lead time.
[28:08]You know?
[28:09]It's like, great, we've got it, you know,
[28:11]we've gone back and forth and back and forth
[28:13]and on getting it and, you know, in shape
[28:15]editorially and it'll be released in a year.
[28:18]You know, it's like that is that point of, you're like,
[28:21]oh, okay.
[28:23]Yeah, we'll start the press in six months, you know?
[28:26]So long lead time, but it's very satisfying.
[28:29]It's very satisfying.
[28:30]I mean, and I would, you know, for whatever it's worth,
[28:34]I would say to anybody who's making something, you know,
[28:38]whether it's a book or a film or song or whatever.
[28:41]It's like, I would say be mindful of compromising
[28:45]because I mean, if somebody's, you know,
[28:48]and this is actually quote from my brother Jason,
[28:50]he I was telling about some notes
[28:52]and I'm gonna give me on my script and I'm like,
[28:54]I'm like, this is just so like, it's like they didn't read
[28:58]this, like they gave notes on the script
[28:59]without even reading it.
[29:00]I don't even understand what it's about
[29:02]for them to have given a note like this.
[29:03]And he said, there are two kinds of notes,
[29:06]notes that make your film better or your book or whatever,
[29:10]and notes that just make it different.
[29:14]So I would say like, if you're trying to accommodate
[29:20]or maybe it's not even notes to say,
[29:22]but it's like, if you're trying to please the majority of people,
[29:26]if you're trying to make it a best sell,
[29:28]if you're trying to do this, you're trying to do that,
[29:30]and you know you are sacrificing the true direction
[29:35]that the book or the film wants to be,
[29:38]you may think you have one problem
[29:39]in that, you know, maybe your film or your book
[29:42]isn't going to be a best sell or something, right?
[29:47]But if you betray the project,
[29:50]you will, you then potentially have two problems.
[29:54]Maybe you still won't, it still won't be some, you know,
[29:57]New York Times best on best sell or list.
[29:59]And.
[30:00]And you put a project out there that is not only not
[30:06]indicative of your work, but of a trail of what you knew
[30:09]the project's supposed to be.
[30:10]And to me, I just think creatively, it's almost
[30:13]unethical creatively.
[30:16]You know absolutely what a project needs to be.
[30:19]And then if you betray that and send out something that's
[30:21]like half big.
[30:23]I mean, if you're an artist, if you're somebody that,
[30:26]if you're somebody who's like not and you're like an
[30:29]accountant or whatever and you're just putting a book out
[30:32]there, you know, have at it.
[30:34]But if you're an artist and you, you have a feel for it
[30:37]and you betray it, don't do it.
[30:39]You, and you have to live with that for the rest of your life
[30:41]because it's going to be out there for the rest, not only the
[30:45]rest of your life, it's going to be out there forever.
[30:47]And you will never have delivered the thing that you were
[30:52]sort of charged with delivering.
[30:55]Yeah, no pressure for anyone.
[30:57]But yeah.
[30:59]No, you're right, you're right.
[31:01]Yeah, I guess the pressure would be like, you know, just deal with
[31:04]your fear.
[31:05]Like, oh no, I'm afraid it's not going to be a big success.
[31:07]Which odds are, I mean, what do you consider a big success?
[31:11]Right.
[31:12]If you're faithful to that project and you get it out, you know
[31:15]it needs to get out.
[31:17]That's massive success.
[31:19]Great.
[31:20]Great.
[31:20]But if you're just eyeing like, oh, I want to make sure I
[31:23]saw, you know, 20,000 copies in the first week or something.
[31:26]I don't know.
[31:27]To me, that's not in the accomplishment.
[31:28]This was so much fun.
[31:30]Thank you.
[31:31]I had a really good time.
[31:32]Thanks for talking about face and fame and maybe the next one
[31:35]will be clothes, maybe not hair.
[31:37]But I don't know.
[31:37]I'm going to follow.
[31:38]And I want more of these birds I've used on things we all think about
[31:42]every day.
[31:42]I think.
[31:43]Oh, yeah, yeah.
[31:44]Yeah, well, Violet is about the fear that that causes you to make
[31:49]decisions to take you off track.
[31:50]So there's, there's one there.
[31:52]And then the third book is going to be about my experience at
[31:55]going to college as a freshman at 46.
[31:57]So like Rodney Dangerfield.
[31:59]Yeah, exactly like Rodney Danger.
[32:02]So, so.
[32:04]Oh, my gosh.
[32:05]So cool.
[32:05]I can't wait to read.
[32:06]Well, thank you for the time.
[32:08]And, and all of it.
[32:10]Thank you.
[32:11]That's fine.
[32:11]Thank you.
[32:12]Okay.
[32:12]Take care.
[32:13]Bye.
[32:13]Bye.
[32:15]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[32:18]Books.
[32:18]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at
[32:22]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[32:23]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign
[32:26]up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom
[32:29]every other week.
[32:30]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the
[32:33]Sound Editing.
[32:34]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this
[32:37]fantastic intro and outro music.