Carla Naumburg, YOU ARE NOT A SH*TTY PARENT: How to Practice Self-Compassion and Give Yourself a Break
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.
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[0:58]Carla Nowberg is back a second time on moms don't have time to read books.
[1:02]For you are not a shitty parent, how to practice self-compassion and give yourself a break.
[1:07]Carla is a PhD and clinical social worker and mother.
[1:11]She is the author of four nonfiction books, including her international bestseller,
[1:14]How to Stop Losing Your Shit with Your Kids, and her most recent title,
[1:17]You Are Not a Shitty Parent.
[1:19]Carla lives outside Boston with her husband and two daughters.
[1:23]Welcome Carla, thanks so much for coming back on moms don't have time to read books.
[1:26]Last time you were here for How to Stop Losing Your Shit with Your Kids,
[1:30]and now you're here for You Are Not a Shitty Parent.
[1:32]So basically, this is all to make me feel better about my life and my parenting.
[1:37]Thank you very much for writing exactly for me.
[1:40]I wrote it just for you Zivi.
[1:41]No, it's your Zivi for all of us.
[1:45]Okay, this second book came out of COVID.
[1:48]Talk about how this, how you got all of the inquiries about what to do and how
[1:54]you decided to focus more on compassion and all of that.
[1:58]Yeah, yeah, so my most recent book before this,
[2:01]How to Stop Losing Your Shit with Your Kids came out in the fall of 2019,
[2:05]so just a few months before COVID.
[2:07]And then COVID hit and we were all stuck in our houses with our kids trying to do our jobs
[2:12]and not get sick and figure out how to live a life during a pandemic.
[2:15]And perhaps not surprisingly, we were all losing our shit with our kids,
[2:18]including me, this person who had just written this book.
[2:21]So I started getting a lot of calls and requests from podcasters and freelancers
[2:26]and folks wanting to write and talk about it.
[2:28]And they were like, tell us what to do.
[2:30]Tell us how to not lose our shit with our kids.
[2:32]And I was like, um, so I wrote this book before the pandemic and maybe during the pandemic,
[2:39]I would have written a book called It's Impossible, not to lose your shit with your kids.
[2:42]No, but in all seriousness, so I was like trying to give this helpful advice,
[2:46]but a lot of the coping skills, a lot of the strategies that I talk about in that book
[2:51]just weren't available to us anymore, right?
[2:53]We couldn't connect with our support system in the same way.
[2:55]We couldn't take space from our kids in the same way.
[2:58]We couldn't take care of ourselves in the same way we had.
[3:01]And not only could we not take care of ourselves,
[3:04]we had this like crazy amount of added stress and anxiety and fear.
[3:08]So like everything was worse and we didn't know what to do.
[3:11]But I would get on these podcasts and I would kind of do the best I can,
[3:15]the best I could to offer helpful advice.
[3:18]But at the end, I was like, you know what?
[3:20]All we can really do in this moment is have compassion for ourselves, right?
[3:25]There's no fix to this.
[3:26]There's no scenario where you can work a 40 hour week job out of your house and have a
[3:30]three year old at home and let that that doesn't work.
[3:33]There's no, it's not possible.
[3:36]And so I really started thinking more about my own self-compassion practice,
[3:40]which I had started prior to the pandemic years ago in an attempt to stop losing my
[3:44]show with my kids.
[3:45]And that was what led to this book because I was like, I don't want to give parents
[3:49]more advice on what to like do differently.
[3:51]We're all doing as much as we can, the best as we can.
[3:55]What I want to talk to parents about is what to do, how to respond when the world goes to
[4:01]shit and you feel like you're falling apart and there's no good advice out there for you.
[4:05]And that's what this book is about.
[4:06]So no matter how bad a parent you are, you should have compassion for yourself.
[4:11]I am going to challenge the first half of that sentence, Libby.
[4:14]I don't actually think there's such a thing as a bad parent.
[4:16]Okay, tell me about that.
[4:18]So I think there are parents who don't parent the way they want to and maybe don't
[4:22]parent in ways that are best for their children.
[4:24]But I'm not, I'm never going to call them a bad parent or a shitty parent because
[4:28]how is that useful?
[4:29]You know, that's like finding someone on a trail who's lost and you hand them a map that says,
[4:35]you're lost and you suck, right?
[4:36]That's not useful.
[4:37]It's not helpful.
[4:39]When you label someone that way, when we label ourselves that way, you just get even more lost
[4:44]and more stuck.
[4:45]So what I think about is that there are parents who don't have the information, support,
[4:49]and resources they need to parent the way they want to.
[4:52]And for some of us, look, that's all of us at some moment in our parenting life.
[4:56]For every single one of us lacks the information resources and support we need at some point.
[5:02]But for some parents, it's all the time and that deficit is really, really significant.
[5:07]And they need a lot more than other parents.
[5:09]But I don't think there's such a thing as a shitty parent.
[5:11]I don't.
[5:12]Well, that's great.
[5:12]That's good news.
[5:14]I hope so.
[5:16]Tell me a little bit more about how to be kind to yourself.
[5:20]What am I, what are parents supposed to do on a day where they feel like everything is out of
[5:25]control and they don't know what to do with their kids?
[5:27]I know you have all these helpful printouts, many of which I felt like I should rip out
[5:31]and sort of put on my wall.
[5:32]Maybe you could start making posters or something like that.
[5:35]I'm just going to show up on the podcast with like it stuck to my forehead.
[5:38]Yes, right.
[5:38]And even reminders, like all your chapters, you're not the only one, the power of connection.
[5:43]How do we connect?
[5:44]How do we leverage the the support systems that we do have, even if they're not in front of us?
[5:49]Like what can we do to feel better and help ourselves be stronger?
[5:54]So first of all, Zibi, to answer your question, I want to start by getting really clear on what
[5:58]some self-compassion is because I think there's a lot of misunderstandings out there.
[6:02]It's just noticing when you're suffering and treating yourself with kindness in response.
[6:08]That's all, right?
[6:09]And for so many of us, and I know you can relate to this, I certainly can, we're so busy, right?
[6:14]Rushing through our days, trying to do all the things, trying to be the best parent and the best
[6:19]worker and the best partner if we have a parenting partner and the best person that we can and get
[6:23]all the things done in schedule appointments and remember the appointments and switched the laundry,
[6:27]I never remember switched laundry, that we kind of either don't notice when we're suffering or we
[6:33]just kind of blow it off. We don't have time for this, right? And that's just not nice, right?
[6:40]That's just not kind. That's not how we would treat the people we love, and yet we do it to
[6:46]ourselves all the time. So compassion is about noticing when we're really suffering or struggling
[6:50]and taking the time to treat ourselves well in response. It's not about making ourselves feel
[6:57]better. You can, like, you know, when we're really compassionate and show up for the people we love,
[7:03]sometimes the kindness and most loving thing we can do is just sit with them in the muck, right?
[7:08]We're not saying put that smile on your face, like feel better, be happier. That's not,
[7:12]that makes people feel worse, right? So it may not fix our feelings, it may not fix our problem,
[7:19]but it makes everything feel sort of easier and lighter and it's the difference between being
[7:25]at a job and making a mistake and having a boss who says, well, you're a total screw up,
[7:30]you buffed that, what a loser you are. And having a boss who says, yeah, you made a mistake,
[7:36]we all make mistakes. It's okay. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or a bad employee.
[7:40]And in both of those scenarios, the boss didn't give you the solution. He didn't tell you how
[7:44]to fix it. But the second one feels so much better, right? All of a sudden, you can imagine
[7:49]how you might move forward. Does that make sense? It makes sense. So let's talk about how to practice
[7:54]this in the book. I outline three sort of core practices, connection, curiosity, and kindness.
[8:01]So there's a bunch of different practices within connection. Some of it is about connecting with
[8:05]the supportive people in your life who love you and will be kind to you. Some of it is about just
[8:10]connecting to the present moment because so often when we get in a shame spiral, our thoughts can
[8:15]get complete out of control. Like our kid has a terrible moment and all of a sudden, our crazy
[8:20]brain takes us to this place where they're going to suffer their entire lives. They're never going
[8:24]to be worth anything. They're going to have a horrible life, their entire life, all because of us,
[8:28]right? When your brain goes to that place, what I want you to do is come back to the present moment.
[8:33]Where am I? What's actually happening in this moment? Take a few deep breaths and that connection
[8:38]can really slow down that shame spiral. But the biggest connection practice is called connecting to
[8:43]common humanity. And I get this from Dr. Kristin Neff at a Texas. I want to give big props to her
[8:49]for her work. That's just a fancy way of saying, remember that you're not alone because I think so
[8:55]often in parenting when things go wrong, we can land in this place of I'm the only one who?
[9:00]I'm the only one who forgot to put my kids lunch in their backpack. I'm the only one who missed
[9:05]the sign up for soccer camp. I'm the only one who screamed at my kid and slammed the door.
[9:11]You're not, right? We've done all those things. We've all done all those things and we've all
[9:16]done worse. And even if you are a parent who's like, oh, no, Carla, you have no idea what goes on
[9:21]in my house. I promise you you're not the only one struggling and suffering through parenting.
[9:26]It is hard for every single one of us, no matter what social media would have you believe.
[9:31]So that's the connection piece. Does that make sense? That makes sense. I love it.
[9:34]All right. So and it can be as simple as any time you notice yourself saying, I am the only one
[9:41]or everyone else does this better than me. Just flip that script and remind yourself,
[9:46]parenting is hard for everyone. And just because it's hard, that doesn't mean we're doing it wrong.
[9:50]That's just the nature of the beast. Parenting is hard no matter how you do it. It's just hard.
[9:54]Yeah, for that. Okay. So should we move on to curiosity? Let's do it. All right. So so often
[10:00]You have a bad parenting moment.
[10:01]We jumped straight to judgment.
[10:04]My kid screwed up.
[10:05]He's lazy, I'm a terrible parent.
[10:06]I'm getting this wrong.
[10:07]Like whatever it is, we just label it and we judge it.
[10:10]And again, that just leaves you in a place of feeling stuck,
[10:14]feeling hopeless, helpless, confused.
[10:16]It's not useful.
[10:18]So instead of judgment, can you get to a place of curiosity?
[10:21]Can you ask yourself, what is going on here?
[10:24]So like the other day my kid was really struggling
[10:27]with the homework assignment.
[10:28]She didn't wanna do it.
[10:29]You know, we had to get it done.
[10:30]I was stressed, you know, I was trying to get other things done.
[10:33]We really got into it.
[10:34]My brain jumped to this place of judgment.
[10:36]She's a lazy kid.
[10:37]She doesn't wanna do work.
[10:38]She's never gonna figure out this homework.
[10:40]And I am a bad parent because I don't know how to motivate her.
[10:43]That's the judgment piece.
[10:45]And then I was like, oh, right.
[10:46]I just wrote a freaking book about this.
[10:47]So I'm gonna switch to curiosity.
[10:50]And I was like, what's going on?
[10:52]Okay, she's exhausted.
[10:54]I'm not sure if she got a snack after school.
[10:57]She's worried about applying to high school.
[10:59]Like all of these things.
[11:01]And so when I understood and had a bigger perspective
[11:05]and what was going on, I was like, oh,
[11:07]my kid's not a lazy jerk.
[11:09]And neither am I.
[11:10]She's having a difficult moment
[11:12]because of all these things going on.
[11:13]So let me get her a snack.
[11:15]Let's talk about, you know,
[11:18]is her concern about this homework related
[11:19]to her concern about high school.
[11:21]We did talk about that.
[11:22]We got a little clarity.
[11:24]I wouldn't say the homework was fun.
[11:26]Let's be clear.
[11:27]It's not like all of a sudden we were like,
[11:28]yay, math problems, but we got through it.
[11:32]And the curiosity piece is important for two reasons.
[11:35]One, it can really help you get some clarity
[11:38]on what's going on.
[11:39]So you can be more effective in your parenting,
[11:41]but when we're curious with ourselves
[11:43]and we ask ourselves what we need,
[11:45]we can actually start to take care of ourselves
[11:47]in some pretty powerful ways.
[11:49]And the one thing I will say about curiosity is,
[11:51]I don't generally go for why questions?
[11:54]Why did I do that?
[11:55]Why did I scream with my kids?
[11:57]I don't know.
[11:58]I'm having a bad day.
[11:59]The moon is out of alignment,
[12:00]like my back hurts and I didn't notice it.
[12:03]I mean, if you want to do some why work
[12:05]and some of it's need to,
[12:06]that's a great time for therapy, right?
[12:07]That's where you can really dig into the wise.
[12:10]But when you're on your own in the kitchen,
[12:13]it's a busy evening.
[12:14]You're just trying to get through the afternoon
[12:15]as best you can or whatever.
[12:16]Don't dig into the wise,
[12:17]because you're probably just gonna make up some story
[12:19]that's like, well, I did it because I suck.
[12:21]And that's actually not the vibe we're going with.
[12:24]I did Curia, I use this technique yesterday, by the way.
[12:28]Thanks to you.
[12:29]Oh, yes.
[12:30]My son, who's seven,
[12:32]just does not like to sit down at the dinner table.
[12:34]Like he'll stand next to his food,
[12:36]but he doesn't like to sit in every meal.
[12:38]I'm like sit down, sit down, sit down.
[12:40]Finally, last night, I was like,
[12:41]so why don't you like to sit?
[12:44]Why do you have to stand?
[12:46]Is it the chair?
[12:47]Like do you need a taller chair?
[12:48]Like what is it about sitting down at this table
[12:52]that you have an issue with?
[12:53]Tell me about it.
[12:54]Yeah.
[12:55]So I tried it.
[12:56]He had no good answer.
[12:57]But at least my husband was like,
[12:58]well, that was good parenting of you.
[13:00]And often our kids don't have a good answer.
[13:04]I will tell you that my daughter is 12
[13:07]and she'll still often eat dinner with like one,
[13:08]but she can't get off the chair as if she's got somewhere
[13:11]really important to go.
[13:13]She has no idea why either,
[13:14]but I want you to know, Zippy,
[13:15]you are not alone in this sitting still at the dinner table
[13:18]is really hard for a lot of kids.
[13:20]And I've mostly come to peace with it.
[13:23]Sometimes I kind of get cranky about it,
[13:25]but mostly I'm like, you know what?
[13:26]If you want to shove your food in your face
[13:28]because you have to raise off to absolutely nowhere,
[13:31]knock yourself out kid.
[13:32]Like I can't fight.
[13:33]I'm fine with it.
[13:34]It's just we only all end up sitting
[13:36]for a short period of time.
[13:38]And I would just like for even five minutes,
[13:40]just like five minutes, just sit out.
[13:42]Just don't stand there.
[13:44]I mean, forget about the fact
[13:45]that by the end of the dinner,
[13:46]literally my daughter was rollerblading around the table.
[13:50]Okay.
[13:51]My son was like off dancing somewhere doing whatever.
[13:53]And I was like, tikilah,
[13:55]can I have some tikilah please?
[13:57]I want to do a rollerblading.
[13:59]I have this fantasy about rollerblading.
[14:01]No, but I mean, look, this is how often
[14:02]how our dinner ends with like the three of us,
[14:05]my older daughter, my husband and myself,
[14:07]sitting at the table and our younger daughter,
[14:08]doing like some kind of interpretive dance next
[14:10]to the table for us.
[14:11]Because that's, she's got a mover body.
[14:13]And I'm like, well, at least you can dance for us.
[14:15]And she totally gets into it.
[14:17]And then she ends up on the floor.
[14:18]But what do you make?
[14:19]I mean, I feel like this is not how I grew up.
[14:22]Like I was forced to sit at my table.
[14:24]Like I had to sit.
[14:25]And that's what we did.
[14:27]And I didn't really have a choice.
[14:28]There was no dancing around.
[14:29]And we had like courses.
[14:31]Like how did that even happen?
[14:34]There was no, there was, you just sat,
[14:36]because I don't know about you,
[14:37]but I was like scared of them.
[14:40]Like they would get really mad.
[14:41]Yeah, they would get mad.
[14:42]Yeah.
[14:42]And I didn't want, and getting mad.
[14:45]But I didn't, nobody cares.
[14:47]Like I get mad.
[14:48]And they still stand up.
[14:49]And that's all of us, right?
[14:51]That we're totally different parenting generation
[14:53]with a totally different vibe.
[14:55]And if I had gone back to 1982
[14:58]and tried to write a book called
[14:59]How To Stop Losing Your Shit With Your Kids,
[15:01]they would have been like, what are you talking about?
[15:04]I am like, that is my prerogative as a parent.
[15:07]And that doesn't mean they were bad parents.
[15:09]That was the vibe they were in.
[15:10]This is the vibe we're in.
[15:11]And the vibe we're in is,
[15:13]I think we're a lot more concerned
[15:14]about our relationship with our kids.
[15:16]And that's not to say previous parents weren't.
[15:18]Of course, they were concerned.
[15:20]Of course, they cared about their kids.
[15:21]But I think for the first time in the history of humanity,
[15:25]we're talking more really explicitly
[15:28]in the popular culture about what it means
[15:30]to have a relationship with your kids.
[15:32]And nobody was talking about that
[15:34]in like the 70s, 80s, 90s.
[15:36]It just wasn't a thing.
[15:37]And I think that's a real double edged sword, right?
[15:40]Sometimes it's really useful
[15:42]and really helpful and really important.
[15:44]And sometimes I think we get,
[15:46]and I use the way because I mean all of us,
[15:48]they be you me and everybody listening to this as kids.
[15:51]We get so worried about how our kids feel
[15:53]that we don't want to say or do things
[15:55]that are going to upset them too much.
[15:56]Because we're told that we're supposed to be happy, right?
[16:00]We live in a happiness culture,
[16:01]happiness classes, happiness books, all the things.
[16:04]And if you're not happy,
[16:05]then you're doing something wrong
[16:07]and you need to work harder.
[16:08]You need to make changes.
[16:10]And I think we've kind of brought that to our kids
[16:13]that it's our job to make them happy.
[16:15]But as I write about in the book,
[16:17]happiness is a feeling and we can't control feelings.
[16:20]I can't make myself happy.
[16:21]I mean, if you were like Carla,
[16:22]I will give you a million dollars
[16:24]if you will feel pure happiness
[16:26]and nothing else for the next 10 minutes.
[16:30]That's an amazing incentive.
[16:31]I can't make myself do that, right?
[16:35]So anyways, that's a happy about the million dollars though
[16:40]that might carry you over.
[16:42]I am guessing that in that moment within about 30 seconds,
[16:45]I would feel anxious about screwing it up
[16:48]and not winning the million dollars, right?
[16:51]I would do the same thing.
[16:52]And so we just can't force feelings.
[16:54]We can't make ourselves feel certain way,
[16:55]which brings me to the third practice of self-compassion,
[16:59]which is kindness.
[17:00]And I would say there's a bunch of ways to treat yourself
[17:02]with kindness.
[17:03]And the two things I like to talk to readers
[17:05]and listeners about is in that chapter,
[17:08]I talk a lot about basic self-care, right?
[17:11]And one of the things I want to talk to people about
[17:12]is the idea that self-care is not self-improvement.
[17:17]Those are two different things
[17:18]and I think we often get them confused
[17:20]and we think self-care means we should start our new diet
[17:23]or go run a marathon or read the latest self-help book
[17:28]or sign up for some self-improvement course.
[17:30]And that's important in our lives, right?
[17:32]That matters.
[17:33]I'm not saying that's not useful
[17:35]and it's not something we should pursue.
[17:37]Of course it is if it's right for you,
[17:39]but it's not the same thing as self-care.
[17:41]And the way I think about it is
[17:42]what would you do for a friend who was struggling?
[17:44]Like if you had a friend who was crying
[17:45]and they'd had a horrible parenting moment,
[17:47]they were really suffering,
[17:48]would you go over their house and be like,
[17:50]oh, this is an amazing time to start organizing your house
[17:53]and you should totally sign up for this online class
[17:55]about how to declutter.
[17:57]You would not, you wouldn't be like,
[17:59]oh, if you only got more sleep at night,
[18:00]you would be a better parent.
[18:01]So here's this 10-step program for getting more sleep.
[18:03]Like don't do that, you wouldn't do that to a friend.
[18:06]So don't do that to yourself.
[18:07]So in the book, I talk about self-care stuff.
[18:09]So my self-care is in me.
[18:10]Here's what it looks like.
[18:12]A lot of romance books lately, right?
[18:14]So my reading, my free reading time is just juicy stuff
[18:19]that makes me feel warm and yummy inside.
[18:20]That self-care for me.
[18:22]And I've decided that my family and I,
[18:24]we started this tradition at the start of the pandemic.
[18:26]I'm like, I wanna end every day laughing.
[18:29]So as a family, we get together and we watch Brooklyn Nine-Nine.
[18:33]We've watched Parks and Rec.
[18:35]We've watched the office.
[18:37]And we watch like two episodes of Blue-E.
[18:40]So for all your lessons, you know what Blue-E is, Debbie?
[18:42]I don't.
[18:43]I didn't know about what it was until like three months ago.
[18:46]It is a phenomenon.
[18:46]It's a preschool cartoon, a little animated series
[18:51]for like little little kids, preschoolers.
[18:54]And each episode is about five or six, seven minutes long.
[18:57]And it comes out of, I think, New Zealand, Australia.
[19:00]And it's about a family of dogs, mom and dad,
[19:03]and Blue-E and Blue-E's little sister, Bingo.
[19:06]And it is hilarious.
[19:08]So my husband and I and our daughters who are 12 and 13
[19:11]are watching this cartoon for preschoolers every night.
[19:14]And we all love it because it leaves us laughing.
[19:16]Okay. All right.
[19:17]Like Louie on the list.
[19:18]Oh my God.
[19:19]And it's just seven minutes of joy to inject
[19:22]little joy injection.
[19:23]But the biggest piece of self-care I wanna leave people with
[19:25]is the idea of kind self-talk.
[19:27]This is like the ultimate kindness.
[19:29]So when you start practicing self-compassion,
[19:31]one of the things you're gonna notice
[19:32]is that you talk to yourself like absolute shit.
[19:35]We all do.
[19:36]I used to say things to myself
[19:38]that I wouldn't say to my worst enemy.
[19:40]Like I'm a horrible mother.
[19:42]I'm screwing up my kids.
[19:43]I am failing at the most important work in my life.
[19:45]I suck.
[19:46]I'm awful.
[19:48]Who says that?
[19:49]Well, a lot of us do it turns out.
[19:52]And so what I encourage parents to do
[19:54]is just kind of flip that script.
[19:57]I'm not saying when you have a bad moment,
[19:58]you have to be like, I'm the best.
[20:00]Mother ever, you're not gonna believe that.
[20:01]Like nobody's the best mother ever.
[20:03]And that's not what we need.
[20:04]But what you can say is, wow,
[20:07]this is a really hard parenting moment.
[20:08]I'm having a bad day.
[20:10]And then you can go into curiosity.
[20:12]What do I need?
[20:13]Or you can go to your common humanity.
[20:15]Yeah, and parenting is hard for everyone, right?
[20:18]And the difference between, I'm a shitty mother
[20:21]or I'm a shitty parent.
[20:22]And I'm having a bad day.
[20:25]Mm-hmm.
[20:26]It feels like sort of a minor switch,
[20:28]but it's huge, it's like a world apart
[20:31]because I'm a shitty parent.
[20:33]It's like soul-level judgment, right?
[20:36]You're just stuck, you're screwed.
[20:38]Yeah.
[20:39]But like I'm having a bad day and parenting is hard
[20:41]for everyone is like, oh, this is a moment in time.
[20:45]And it's a moment in time that we all suffer
[20:47]and struggle with.
[20:47]And that feels so much easier.
[20:50]So I really go into the kind self-talk,
[20:51]which is so crucial.
[20:53]Here is when I needed the kind self-talk.
[20:56]Because I think we're all so hard on ourselves, too.
[20:59]When we're in the moment or whatever,
[21:01]I got back from a book event the other night
[21:03]and I had already felt bad that ran late.
[21:05]And so I like rushed back before bedtime
[21:08]and they wanted my, I let the kids watch
[21:10]like an extra episode of whatever
[21:11]so that they could still be up when I got home.
[21:13]It was not like I was still like eight, 30 or something.
[21:15]But I didn't want to miss bedtime.
[21:17]And then we got home and I was starving
[21:18]because I hadn't eaten in like six hours
[21:20]or something crazy.
[21:21]So my husband and he ended up some soup.
[21:24]And my daughter, it was time for her to go to bed.
[21:26]And I was like, you should, you go up to bed
[21:28]and like I'll be up there in a few minutes
[21:29]but I have to eat this soup.
[21:30]And she's like, no, no, I'll stay with you.
[21:31]And I was literally scooping up my soup.
[21:33]And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm such a bad parent.
[21:35]I'm just like keeping them up
[21:36]because I had a book of that.
[21:38]And now I'm hungry and all this stuff.
[21:39]And literally my daughter looked at me
[21:40]and she's like, mom, you're eating soup.
[21:42]You're not a bad parent.
[21:43]And I love you.
[21:46]I feel like that should be the title of a book.
[21:49]You're just eating soup.
[21:50]Yeah, you're just eating soup.
[21:51]Like what makes you like, no, it's fine.
[21:53]It's two minutes.
[21:54]Yeah.
[21:55]I mean, look, so Zibi, you and I are in like parallel words
[21:58]world to last night.
[22:00]I came up from a book event.
[22:01]I was home late.
[22:02]My kids were already supposed to be asleep.
[22:05]Yeah.
[22:06]And one of my kids is just having a hard time right now.
[22:07]And she wasn't asleep and she was having a really hard night
[22:10]and I could hear her like crying.
[22:12]And I was like, I need to go upstairs
[22:15]to be with my kid.
[22:16]I also have to eat.
[22:18]I'm so hungry.
[22:19]I'm going to like, you know, horse.
[22:20]So I'm downstairs like shoving literally cheese and banana
[22:23]and nuts in my face, like instead of dinner trying to get
[22:26]this food in because I know I'm not going to be useful to her
[22:31]if I'm starving because I'm such a cranky lady when I'm hungry.
[22:35]And then I go upstairs and I'm covering my kid.
[22:37]And I'm like, she's up way past her bedtime
[22:39]because she's having a hard time right now.
[22:41]I should have been home.
[22:43]And then I was like, you know what?
[22:44]No, I'm not going to do that.
[22:46]Like and in that moment, I was like, I actually am so tired.
[22:50]I don't have anything better to offer myself.
[22:52]I literally couldn't come up with anything better.
[22:54]So I was like, kiddo, we're just going to do a counting
[22:57]exercise to fall asleep.
[22:59]And that's what we did.
[23:00]I was like, we're going to start at 102
[23:01]and we're going to split track three.
[23:02]And she's like, no, no, no.
[23:04]And I was like, what's mine is three?
[23:05]That's like 96.
[23:07]And I just, I was like, all I know is she's sitting there
[23:10]mired in her yucky thoughts.
[23:12]Yeah.
[23:13]I'm sitting here mired in my yucky thoughts.
[23:15]Yep.
[23:16]I actually can't get to a better place.
[23:19]So literally, we're going to count because even counting
[23:23]is better than laying there feeling like crap.
[23:27]And that's what we did.
[23:28]I like that.
[23:29]I feel like five minutes just counting together
[23:30]and she calm down.
[23:32]And I calm down and eventually we got to sleep.
[23:33]And then I woke up and everything feels so much better
[23:36]after you can get some sleep.
[23:37]Like don't trust a tired brain.
[23:39]Never trust the thoughts out of a tired brain.
[23:41]They're not helpful.
[23:43]It's true.
[23:44]I can see it's so easy to see that with the people you love.
[23:47]Like anyone in the family, when they start
[23:48]acting snippy or cry or whatever.
[23:55]It's so obvious to me.
[23:56]Like, oh, this is the person I love not acting like themselves
[23:58]because they are so tired.
[23:59]And yet when it's me, I don't see that as much.
[24:03]It's hard to identify, I think.
[24:05]Because when you get tired, you prefrontal cortex,
[24:09]and like the neuroscientists out there
[24:10]are going to be like, you're not exactly right.
[24:11]OK, people, I'm close enough.
[24:13]When you get tired, you're prefrontal cortex,
[24:15]which is this part of your brain right behind your forehead,
[24:18]the part that is reflective and insightful,
[24:21]and can think clearly about things.
[24:23]That's the part that shuts off.
[24:24]It's also the part of our brain that shuts off
[24:26]when we've been drinking alcohol, right?
[24:28]And so, or when we're overwhelmed with emotion.
[24:31]And so it's not that there's anything wrong with you, Zibi.
[24:34]It's that because when we are tired,
[24:35]our brain has developed to conserve its resources
[24:38]to the most important things like breathing and eating
[24:42]and kind of staying alive.
[24:43]And we don't have the resources to think on an advanced level
[24:46]and be insightful, which is why I am working so hard
[24:49]that when my husband says, are you tired or you hungry?
[24:52]I try really hard not to bite his head off about it,
[24:54]which is my natural.
[24:54]And now, of course not.
[24:56]And I try to just listen to him and like, I'm trying.
[24:59]I'm working.
[25:00]We've been married almost 19 years.
[25:01]We'll get there.
[25:01]Eventually, I will start listening to him.
[25:03]Probably, probably.
[25:04]I don't know.
[25:05]Maybe not.
[25:06]Maybe never tart to me.
[25:07]I had a feeling this would all be amazing for me, personally.
[25:12]Oh, so I'm kidding.
[25:15]I mean, I'm kind of kidding.
[25:17]But I feel many times that I'm just
[25:19]a proxy for everybody else.
[25:21]If I am feeling this, if you are feeling this,
[25:23]we are all feeling this.
[25:24]And I think that's what you're trying to say in general.
[25:27]Like when you put your whole, I am not the only one who.
[25:30]So I'm hoping that by sharing my parenting fails or not
[25:34]fails or whatever.
[25:34]And your sharing yours makes everybody else feel better.
[25:39]I particularly love I'm not a bad parent.
[25:42]I'm having a bad day.
[25:43]Like that is so, that's a great mantra.
[25:45]Like to put on the bulletin board to repeat,
[25:48]to remember in the worst of times.
[25:50]So I love the idea that you said remember
[25:52]and that's part of the practice.
[25:53]And look, when adults use the word practice,
[25:56]we generally mean a thing you do, like a medical practice.
[25:59]You do medical stuff, right?
[26:00]Yep.
[26:01]And what I mean is a thing that you start doing,
[26:04]and it's hard and doesn't go easily and feels uncomfortable.
[26:07]And you can't come up with the words,
[26:08]and you don't really know how to do it.
[26:10]And you have to consult the book and blah, blah, blah.
[26:12]But if you keep doing it, it gets easier
[26:14]and you get better at it.
[26:15]And when I first started doing the zippy,
[26:17]I was like, what am I supposed to say to myself?
[26:19]This was probably eight years ago.
[26:21]And now I don't have shitty mom thoughts anymore.
[26:25]I don't have those.
[26:26]Am I a significantly better parent than I was eight years ago?
[26:30]I don't know.
[26:31]I don't think so.
[26:32]I think I'm pretty similar in my parenting.
[26:33]But parenting feels a little bit easier
[26:35]because I no longer think of myself as a shitty parent.
[26:38]And it took years of practice to get there,
[26:40]but that's not a narrative that's in my brain anymore.
[26:44]But man, it was there with a vengeance for a long time
[26:48]until I really started practicing.
[26:51]I love it.
[26:52]Thank you, Carla.
[26:53]This has been so great.
[26:55]I always love talking to you.
[26:56]You always reframe things in a way
[26:59]that makes life feel a little bit easier and better.
[27:02]And that's a real gift.
[27:04]I thank you.
[27:05]Well, thank you, Zibi.
[27:05]And thank you for everything you do for parents and authors
[27:09]and women and people on this planet.
[27:11]You make the world a better place.
[27:12]And we are grateful for it.
[27:13]Thank you.
[27:15]OK.
[27:17]Thank you so much.
[27:18]This is so fun.
[27:19]I always love talking to you.
[27:20]And if there's ever anything I can do to be supportive of you
[27:22]and all your endeavors, I am delighted to do it.
[27:25]Thank you.
[27:26]And me for you.
[27:27]OK, thank you.
[27:27]OK, thank you, bye.
[27:30]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[27:32]to Read Books.
[27:33]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, ads and be Owens,
[27:36]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[27:38]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbowens.com
[27:41]and sign up for my virtual book club
[27:43]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[27:45]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[27:48]for the Sound Editing.
[27:49]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[27:51]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.