Cecily Wong, KALEIDOSCOPE: A Novel
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[0:58]Cecily Wang is the author of kaleidoscope, a novel
[1:01]Cecily is the author of the novel Diamond Head which was a Barnes and Noble Discover Great new writer's selection
[1:06]The recipient of an L. Reeder's prize and voted a best debut of the Brooklyn Book Festival
[1:11]She is also the co-author of the New York Times Bestseller Gastro Obscura of Food Adventures Guide
[1:17]Her work has appeared in the Wall Street Journal Los Angeles Review of Books, Self Magazine, Real Simple and Elsewhere
[1:23]She is a graduate of Barnard College and lives in Portland, Oregon
[1:26]Hi Cecily, thanks so much for coming on mops. Don't have time to read books to discuss your beautiful novel kaleidoscope
[1:33]Thank you so much for having me
[1:35]You are a beautiful beautiful writer. I love your style of writing
[1:41]Like the sentence, some of the sentences I was just like looking at over and over and like
[1:46]You know, they're not like overly flowery
[1:48]But the way you use words and these like concise things that just like burst on images into my brain
[1:53]It's really awesome
[1:55]Oh wow, I love the brain image burst
[2:00]What I live for
[2:03]I know, I don't know why I like I get so much joy at a new sentence that
[2:08]Does something different and like
[2:10]With not that many words like even the sense that you wrote you said I woke up to the day
[2:15]I'd emptied sat up in bed and let time shake out in front of me
[2:20]What a great sense like that's just a great sense
[2:22]You know, thanks for saying that because I actually I have a couple of sites over that sentence with my team
[2:28]And they're like does this is this working and I was like, I don't know. I think it is
[2:34]We ended up keeping it
[2:38]So thanks and why does there's a fan of that sentence that's not just me. I have a total fan of that sense. Yes
[2:45]Okay, well now that I've talked about your writing which I love can you tell listeners a little more about what kaleidoscope is about
[2:52]Yeah, sure. So so kaleidoscope is it follows this the family
[2:57]Called the Brighton family and they are a either a biracial Chinese American family
[3:03]That kind of begins their life pretty humbly and Oregon
[3:06]They they run the town first organic grocery store
[3:09]And as that kind of blows up they start traveling and they go on these these package tours that take them to Asia
[3:15]And eventually they end up in India where they sparked this idea for a business that they call kaleidoscope
[3:22]And it's essentially it's a business that sources luxury goods from around the world mostly from Asia and India
[3:29]And it's it's it's clothing. It's furniture. It's jewelry and it's it's kind of this like
[3:36]So both hemean lifestyle store and it blows up and it takes them to New York and they find all this success
[3:43]And essentially they'll follow the two sisters in the family who are they grew up super super close and and just how they
[3:51]Kind of contend with the shifting landscape of their family as they as they find success with the store and it takes them places
[3:58]And they're they're super different. There's there's Morgan who's the older sister and she's kind of the beautiful one
[4:05]She's fashioning. She's the designer and then there's Riley
[4:09]Sorry Riley is the is the younger sister and she's kind of brainer and kind of snarky and she
[4:16]She kind of doesn't believe in what the family was doing with kaleidoscope and
[4:22]And so it follows that dynamic
[4:25]But there's also an accident about halfway through that kind of turns the
[4:29]Family on its head and and it follows them through their shifting relationships with each other with the world with their ambition
[4:37]And there's there's a lot of a lot of travel along the way
[4:40]It's true the second half was all like I was like where am I going next? This is great
[4:45]Where are they where's she gonna take me?
[4:48]Have a thinned of them by I haven't been to a lot of these places, so I thank you for that
[4:55]Yeah, no, it's my favorite kind of book for all of the ones where you get to see the inside
[5:00]You know, it doesn't even have to be a country you haven't been to but just kind of a
[5:04]strange like peak into a place that you're not familiar with and you get to do it through reading
[5:10]I mean, that's the joy books
[5:13]Totally also like being a part of somebody else's relationship and I feel like you
[5:18]not only crafted such
[5:20]Strong relationships between the girls
[5:23]but also with James and I found myself really rooting for him
[5:29]As he vied for anyone's attention for a long time
[5:34]Before James's image of him's like looking in himself in the in the mall or wherever you had him with like his his
[5:41]Overly dry clean over not dry clean overly washed or something. What did you say about the t-shirt and some sort of?
[5:47]Yeah, it's like warped from the dryer. Yeah, it's like warped from the dryer
[5:51]Like getting contacts
[5:53]can't like all that and then like
[5:56]Because a hornroom glasses later and it's just like come on
[6:02]Can't get it right
[6:04]I know true. I mean, I mean that was part of it
[6:07]I mean the the book goes from kind of small town Oregon to New York and I and it is kind of it was a
[6:13]Corrector that I took as well and there's all these transformations that come obviously emotionally
[6:18]But also physically when you're leaving you know a place like
[6:21]small town Oregon and ending up in Manhattan and James and Riley kind of became my
[6:26]Maybe a close and Morgan event. Yeah, yeah
[6:28]From back and look like you know
[6:30]You had this one passage that really stick with me about how it really stuck with me
[6:35]Sorry when James is you know when James sees Riley for the first time in a while and she's like well
[6:41]Everyone should know this isn't what he's really like and then she's like well
[6:44]That's the whole point of being able to move to a new city and reinvent yourself is that
[6:49]Maybe that wasn't the most authentic to him anyway and maybe this is his opportunity for reinvention and maybe it's mine too
[6:57]Absolutely, I mean, you're just trying stuff out
[6:59]I mean, this is kind of a collision for them at least of college and moving to a big city and so they got kind of like double
[7:07]Double reinvention power
[7:09]But during that scene that you're talking about you know, they're both kind of simultaneously trying to reinvent themselves
[7:14]Yet they know each other from high school so they know you know what that
[7:19]Former self used to be and that's always a little jarring
[7:22]And I feel like when you meet someone from your past like you know a number of years later
[7:26]And you feel like you're a different person, but all of a sudden just their presence in the room
[7:31]Kind of reflects that to you this old person who you forgot that you ones were totally
[7:35]I also feel like I'm so that like there's a
[7:39]Like I went to high school with who went by Jamie and now he goes by James and I'm like I will not call you James
[7:45]And I feel like that might be your right, you know
[7:49]It's always hard to read to re-learn the names when they're when they've been stuck in your brain as a certain way
[7:55]Yeah, this friend of mine from college to Danny Goldman who just ran for is running for Congress actually
[8:01]But now he's like Dan Goldman running for I was like you are a Danny to me
[8:04]And I am going to post about Danny and I am not gonna call you Dan
[8:09]So anyway, yeah, and people's quest to reinvent they drag along some of the old timers
[8:16]More resistant to it
[8:19]For the ones messing it up. You also do a nice job too of giving us these little glimpses into the mom's point of view
[8:25]You jump around a little bit with who's you know who's perspective?
[8:28]We're taking and even the one towards the end with how she's feeling about some of the things that I won't give away
[8:34]But that have transpired in the family which are horrific and whatever
[8:39]I mean even just little glimpses of what it means to be her in those in those moments too
[8:44]We're really eye-opening. Thanks. Yeah, I you know, it was a book-long
[8:49]Journey for me to find empathy for the character of the mom. Yeah, I I needed to find some closure by the end and it was
[8:57]I wasn't exactly sure how it was gonna find until those those last scenes
[9:01]Yeah, and actually I didn't want to write them because those are all from you know
[9:05]How do you how do you find closure with characters who are who are difficult like that in our behaving badly?
[9:11]Yeah, and so yeah, and so it took it took until the end
[9:16]And it for me that is in the mother in the story and
[9:19]Is about the way with mothers in general
[9:21]I mean, I think that that's kind of abbed. Yeah, to real life as well. I was not I was not expecting the the last twist of information
[9:30]So that's always good. I feel like I'm my greatest gullible reader on the planet
[9:35]Some people like even are publishing team. They're like I have a really hard time
[9:39]Suspending disbelief. So I didn't follow this. I was like really? I don't
[9:43]I bought it immediately. I did. I didn't question this thing
[9:48]I love it. I love it. I've I've I've tried to stop guessing twist
[9:51]It's always better. My favorite books are when
[9:54]There is a huge twist, but you don't know that, you know, there's no hype around the twist like they don't you don't go in
[10:00]do it, looking for it.
[10:01]Yes, truly.
[10:02]And then you just get floored.
[10:03]Yes, totally.
[10:05]That happened with, at the ending of,
[10:07]did you read Hurricane Girl by Marcy Dermonti,
[10:10]by any chance?
[10:10]Not yet, but it is on my life.
[10:12]I didn't know that anything,
[10:14]I mean, now I've probably ruined it for you,
[10:15]but like that there was a surprising,
[10:17]thanks to the surprising ending
[10:18]that I had not expected at all.
[10:20]And nobody warned me that it was there,
[10:22]and so it made it all the more powerful,
[10:23]but now I've warned it,
[10:24]now I've warned other people.
[10:25]That's the best one.
[10:26]All right, well, all right, just give me the idea.
[10:29]But it's still really good.
[10:30]Well, what books are some of your favorites
[10:32]while we're talking about other books?
[10:35]Yeah, I mean, I always say that my first,
[10:38]my first author crush was Jupyla Harry.
[10:42]I love her stories.
[10:43]She was kind of the first author
[10:45]that I read for language before that.
[10:49]I grew up in a restaurant family,
[10:50]and so I read all sorts of popular fiction
[10:54]because it was like anything that was available
[10:56]at Costco while we were shopping
[10:57]and was like, what could I?
[11:00]And so, but yeah, so I grew up with, you know,
[11:02]like Costco fiction,
[11:03]I read a lot of Amy Tan.
[11:05]I read a lot of kind of like Chinese family sogas,
[11:08]which was what my first book was.
[11:11]And then I came to Jupyla Harry
[11:12]and started falling in love with the language.
[11:15]And from that I love Jennifer Egan.
[11:18]I love motion-humid, exit-west,
[11:23]and how to get healthy-rich and thrive in Asia.
[11:26]I live out on a foreign day.
[11:28]Yep, more of the skewinged literary.
[11:32]Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's kind of,
[11:34]I don't know, I, yeah, I think I did fall.
[11:39]I first fell in love with the stories
[11:42]and then I fell in love with the language
[11:45]and I'm always like interested in how to mesh the two
[11:48]so that you have something that's like highly readable
[11:51]and yet you do stop at a sentence level
[11:53]because that's kind of, I think what,
[11:56]what blew me away about just the act of writing,
[11:59]of the act of writing novels in general
[12:01]when I was coming to it early on.
[12:04]Well, I feel, you know, again that you really executed
[12:09]well on the language piece and the story, but.
[12:11]Yeah, thank you.
[12:12]Yeah, I appreciate that.
[12:14]And thank you for the love on that summer round
[12:17]for Good Morning America
[12:18]that was so kind and such a nice surprise.
[12:20]Oh, well, well-deserved.
[12:22]I mean, by the way, I was not alone.
[12:23]It was researching to see what happened
[12:26]with the book afterwards
[12:27]and you're like a best book of Apple and Buzzfeed
[12:29]and all sorts of places.
[12:30]So I'm glad that I, I'm glad I have some good time.
[12:34]Yes, I appreciate it so much.
[12:37]Tell me about this cover
[12:38]because I feel like the cover could have gone
[12:40]in so many different directions for the story.
[12:43]I think they nailed the cover.
[12:45]This was my favorite cover I've ever had
[12:47]and they did it on the first try,
[12:48]which is really pretty miraculous.
[12:50]Yeah.
[12:51]So yeah, I mean, basically I only had one request,
[12:56]which is that I didn't want,
[12:57]I didn't want a human on it
[12:58]and I didn't want a woman on it.
[13:00]Yeah.
[13:01]And so they took that to heart
[13:03]and my editor from the get go
[13:05]she said she had a designer in mind
[13:06]who is this Vietnamese American woman who's really cool.
[13:09]And she was like, I think she's really gonna get this book
[13:12]and she did and she just made this.
[13:15]And it was pretty amazing.
[13:17]We all just saw this cover and said this is it.
[13:20]And she actually, she made like 12 iterations
[13:23]but this was like front and center.
[13:25]Clearly the one that she wanted
[13:27]and it was the one that we all wanted.
[13:29]And as you do, we still like kind of asked for a few tweaks
[13:32]because we're like, maybe it could be better if we did this
[13:35]and we just ended up with the original.
[13:36]Yeah, I mean, she just nailed it
[13:40]with like the feeling of escapism.
[13:43]I feel like it and taking off and kind of leaving
[13:48]the New York cityscape behind
[13:50]and there's just kind of the feeling of motion
[13:53]and heat I think that coming off of this cover.
[13:56]And so I think she did an amazing job.
[13:59]I think covers are so hard.
[14:01]Yes.
[14:01]And I love like this hint of fabric at the bottom.
[14:04]Right, the pattern.
[14:05]Yeah, we exactly, exactly.
[14:08]And we messed with that fabric too.
[14:09]I was like, maybe would you get a better fabric?
[14:11]We couldn't.
[14:14]Well, that's great.
[14:15]The colors and, you know, this whole, I mean, having to play,
[14:20]having, having the kaleidoscope stores themselves to play
[14:24]with is so fun.
[14:26]I mean, did you, yeah, in the marketing,
[14:28]like did you do anything with, I mean,
[14:30]I was looking at your tour pictures earlier,
[14:31]but anything with like some of the, like the bizarre,
[14:35]like environment of the store,
[14:37]recreating the store or having an event
[14:39]in a similar type store or anything like that.
[14:42]And now that's a great idea.
[14:44]I wish you would have thought about that actually.
[14:46]If it had turned right by the clock, you know,
[14:47]there might still be time.
[14:48]But we did, we did think about making an item from the store
[14:52]to give away with books,
[14:53]but then it got kind of tricky
[14:55]because this is whole aspect of that the family's, you know,
[14:58]wrestling with cultural commodification
[15:01]and whether or not what they're doing is like cool.
[15:04]And so to, you know, package, you know, an item
[15:07]and send, you know, a maybe piece of cultural commodification
[15:10]in the mail.
[15:11]You're right.
[15:12]Oh, maybe this is, maybe this is dicey.
[15:14]You're right.
[15:15]So we did not go that way,
[15:16]but we did think about it because I mean,
[15:18]I think that a lot of the stuff that they would sell
[15:20]at quite a scope would be really cool.
[15:22]You know, I would want to go there.
[15:25]I know, I still think that I would want to go there
[15:27]despite, I know, I feel bad.
[15:29]I feel bad.
[15:30]I know, I feel bad.
[15:33]I feel bad, but still.
[15:35]Yeah, so tell me about getting into writing to begin with
[15:39]and how that happened for you.
[15:43]I came to this sideways.
[15:45]This was never quite the intention.
[15:48]I don't think I understood that you could be a writer
[15:50]of books as a profession for a really long time
[15:54]not until, you know, I was pretty much my last year of college.
[15:58]I was an Italian major, which was completely
[16:02]in orthonautically I needed to finish.
[16:04]And I transferred to Barnard in New York
[16:08]when I was a sophomore and I'd taken a year off
[16:11]and gone to Italy to live for a year
[16:12]and I needed to finish this degree in three years.
[16:15]I promised my parents and so Italian was the way forward
[16:18]and I was kind of mitten with the language
[16:21]and the culture and so I started doing that.
[16:23]And then there was this diswriting teacher at Barnard
[16:26]named Mary Gordon who ran this really amazing workshop
[16:30]but you had to apply and it was pretty rigorous.
[16:32]And I was interested in it.
[16:34]I've always been kind of interested in writing
[16:36]but she rejected me and she kept rejecting me.
[16:39]And it just, it became, I became kind of determined
[16:42]to get into this class.
[16:43]And then I realized that actually over at Columbia
[16:46]across the street you didn't have to apply
[16:48]to get into the creative writing classes.
[16:51]And so I took one there and I wrote a short story
[16:56]that eventually got me into Mary's class.
[16:58]And I just, I started working on this story
[17:01]that was essentially about, about my mother
[17:03]growing up as a kid in Hawaii in the 1960s.
[17:06]And I just started writing this, this story
[17:10]in Mary's class and I had about 50 pages when I graduated.
[17:14]So 50 pages of like maybe a novel
[17:16]and then an Italian degree and like no job prospects
[17:19]whatsoever.
[17:21]And ended up winning this award and Mary said to me,
[17:25]I think you have a novel, you know, like if you,
[17:27]if you can do it, I think you should try
[17:29]and kind of the first time it struck me
[17:32]that maybe I could try and do this.
[17:34]So I did, I just chased it for like another three years
[17:37]and I did it, I kind of learned to write this way.
[17:40]I was completely outside of the world
[17:42]of like publishing and writing programs.
[17:45]I had no idea what an MFA was like just at all
[17:48]to the point where like a month before my first novel
[17:52]came out in 2015.
[17:53]I realized I didn't know a single other writer
[17:55]but not one except for like just Mary Gordon.
[17:59]And so I called her and I was like, Mary,
[18:03]like I need a friend, like you must have a friend for me.
[18:06]Everyone comes through you, you know, similar age,
[18:09]first book out, like you got anything.
[18:12]And she was like, yeah, I do.
[18:13]And so she set me up on a friend date
[18:15]and now now I was through an Angelia Pierpont
[18:18]and she's in a writing group together.
[18:19]And yeah, I thought this was kind of like
[18:21]became my entry point and to understanding
[18:25]kind of like the world of writing.
[18:27]And then I started learning things
[18:28]but I came to it like very, very kind of blind
[18:32]I have been working in a vacuum
[18:33]which was an interesting way to write a novel.
[18:35]And you know, I think kind of like a good and pure way
[18:38]but also I had no idea what I was doing.
[18:42]No one really has any idea what they're doing.
[18:44]So yeah, I think that honestly does.
[18:47]It remains true.
[18:49]Do you live in New York still?
[18:51]No, I've been in Portland, Oregon for almost two years
[18:54]but wasn't Brooklyn and then like other wayside for 14,
[19:00]one to one for school and just stayed.
[19:02]I married New Yorker as well
[19:04]but you wanted to come to Portland.
[19:05]Oh, okay.
[19:07]Well, yeah.
[19:08]There were so many specific places mentioned like so
[19:11]and just it was such a, you know,
[19:13]when you were like any first in such a far quest
[19:15]or now we're on like did it like anyway,
[19:17]I'm in New York now.
[19:18]So I'm like, okay, I feel like I could hop around
[19:19]and hit most of these spots.
[19:22]Yeah, now totally New York is with such a big part
[19:26]of my coming of age, my finding myself
[19:29]and as it is for these characters
[19:31]and you know, it is like, you know,
[19:34]kind of cliche to do a find yourself in New York book.
[19:37]But I don't know.
[19:38]I feel like each generation has something kind of new
[19:41]to say about why you come to the city,
[19:42]what it means to you and what you do with it.
[19:46]Yeah.
[19:47]Well, this didn't come across as a cliche,
[19:49]find yourself in New York book,
[19:50]although I can't even think of a cliche
[19:52]to find yourself in New York book off the top of my head.
[19:53]So I like them, I like them all.
[19:56]Like they're there for me.
[19:58]Yeah, I like them too.
[20:00]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[20:03]Yeah, definitely.
[20:04]So I always like to say that there is so much value
[20:09]in the work that you throw away.
[20:12]Every project that I've done, every book, every idea
[20:16]has had just dozens and dozens of pages
[20:19]that don't make it to the final manuscript
[20:22]or no one ever reads.
[20:25]And it can be really frustrating,
[20:28]especially when you're, you know, for starting out
[20:29]or honestly, no, even now it's super frustrating.
[20:32]But those pages that you throw away
[20:35]always inform the story in this way.
[20:37]That's kind of magic because you don't see it.
[20:40]It's all happy and off stage.
[20:41]But it makes, it makes your writing and your book
[20:45]kind of muscular in the way that you know,
[20:48]your characters, you know, your story
[20:51]and you don't, you don't share it all.
[20:53]And so I think that's one thing.
[20:55]I get that question a lot about throwing things away.
[20:58]And all these things that never, never make it.
[21:02]And I think there's huge value in it.
[21:04]And any tips on balancing sort of being a parent
[21:08]of a young child with trying to be super creative
[21:12]turning it on.
[21:13]When you need it on.
[21:14]Yeah.
[21:15]Man, this is such a learning curve for me.
[21:17]I mean, I have, I've been 18 months old now
[21:20]and she's my first.
[21:21]And so everything, every day is a new day.
[21:24]I'm just, you know, I feel like I'm,
[21:26]I'm learning that myself in real time.
[21:28]When she was, when she was a little bit old,
[21:30]she used to sleep on a pillow in my lap.
[21:32]And I would, and I would write.
[21:33]And then I was like, this is pretty good.
[21:36]And now it's like, no, this is like,
[21:38]this is never gonna happen.
[21:40]There doesn't have to be like a separation of,
[21:42]she's in that, she's with someone else
[21:43]while I'm like turning my brain on.
[21:45]So I mean, no, like I'm an absolute amateur.
[21:48]Do you have any tips for me?
[21:51]I don't know.
[21:53]I wish I waited a while.
[21:55]My kids are a little older now.
[21:56]They're seven and nine.
[21:57]I have my twins are 15,
[21:58]but I could barely get anything done.
[22:01]I feel like, aside from like, keep up on emails.
[22:04]And I felt like I was so busy back then.
[22:05]And now in retrospect, I'm like,
[22:07]what was I so busy doing back then
[22:09]that I was so stressed?
[22:09]I'm like, you know, love the time.
[22:11]I guess maybe I was, I don't even know what I was doing,
[22:13]but I always feel really busy.
[22:14]But yeah.
[22:15]Well, you are.
[22:16]I mean, no, I know, but you know, no matter what I,
[22:20]I seem to maintain my level of busyness
[22:22]no matter how much content there actually is.
[22:25]So it almost doesn't matter.
[22:26]Just a baseline of, yeah.
[22:29]I will say though, even now,
[22:30]like I'm trying to write my first novel
[22:32]that's actually sold,
[22:33]I'm trying to like finish it, whatever.
[22:35]But I cannot, yeah, I can,
[22:37]I'm having a hard time doing that
[22:38]with the kids around.
[22:39]Like I, yeah, I need like quiet and time
[22:45]and those things are in short supply.
[22:48]Yeah, no, it's a whole new game.
[22:50]I mean, it's really hard to have a, like it's the same
[22:53]thought that you need when you're when you're caring.
[22:56]I feel like during the like the discovery phase
[22:59]when you're just like, you know, coming up with ideas,
[23:01]maybe you can do that with like a kid nearby.
[23:03]But when you're trying to like smooth things out
[23:06]or follow threads or, you know, like look for cohesion
[23:09]in like a longer work, I can't imagine.
[23:11]Yeah, figuring out how to do that with a kid around.
[23:14]Yeah.
[23:15]Well, maybe it'll end up that the way I write
[23:17]is better for people who also have kids around
[23:19]while they're reading because it's going to be like,
[23:21]you know, short parts of all these chapters.
[23:25]Exactly, totally amazing.
[23:29]Well, Cecily, thank you so much for coming on.
[23:32]This has been so fun.
[23:33]I have so much respect for you and your work
[23:35]and I'm really excited to follow your career
[23:37]and see what you write next.
[23:38]Despite obstacles in your midst,
[23:41]which are also good.
[23:44]Thank you so much.
[23:45]It was really nice to chat with you.
[23:46]You too.
[23:47]Okay, you too.
[23:48]We're doing a couple of grand.
[23:49]Oh, yeah. Thanks.
[23:50]Bye.
[23:52]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[23:54]to Read Books.
[23:55]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens
[23:58]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[24:00]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com
[24:03]and sign up for my virtual book club
[24:05]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[24:07]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[24:10]for the Sound Editing.
[24:11]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[24:13]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.