Caitlin Macy, A BLIND CORNER
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[0:58]Caitlyn Basie is the author of a blind corner
[1:01]This is one of our guest hosted episodes by Juliana Goldman
[1:05]Caitlyn is the author of misses and she was actually on this podcast for that book
[1:09]So you can go back and listen to that the fundamentals of play and spoiled the recipient of an oh Henry award
[1:15]Macy's work has been published in the New Yorker in the New York Times magazine among other publications
[1:20]She lives in New York City with her husband and two children
[1:23]Caitlyn, Macy author of a blind corner. Thank you so much for joining us
[1:27]Thank you so much for having me. A blind corner stories about good intentions that can go horribly wrong
[1:35]Tell us about it. My agent and I came up with that tagline because I think many of the stories
[1:41]are about a situation where someone really does have the best intentions they are trying to do good
[1:50]or at least if not overtly trying to do good they're at least trying to conduct their life
[1:57]in a respectful way but because of their preconceived notions or their
[2:02]Bices or what have you on their social emotional makeup they sort of end up tripping themselves up
[2:10]fighting off their noses to stay at their face digging their own graves all that so that's why
[2:15]we sort of thought that made sense as something I mean the stories there are a range of stories
[2:19]as you probably saw but that sort of encapsulated a lot of it so one of the things I
[2:25]loved about it was after reading it there were certain stories or like vignettes that really
[2:31]stayed with me that I would wake up thinking about which I think is like the hallmark of a great
[2:38]great book and great great writing. Thank you I'm glad to hear that because I agree and I
[2:42]also find it funny as a reader and a movie guards on the things that do stay with one because
[2:48]it's often not what you'd expect it's sometimes something you're thinking about some strange
[2:54]comedy that you watched because nothing else was on TV one night 20 years later so I'm glad that
[3:00]I'm glad that you're finding that they stick a bit. How did you come up with the concept like
[3:05]where did it come from both in terms of the content but also the idea of writing it as short stories?
[3:11]Yeah so my stuff in general tends to start with a nugget of the truth of some actual thing
[3:20]that either happened or that I observe and then I sort of push it push it push it to the limit
[3:26]so many of the stories had some little incident not exactly as told in the story but some little
[3:34]incident that then I thought oh my imagine if that really went all the way that problematic
[3:42]interaction or something like that and in terms of doing stories so it's funny I know I've
[3:49]done a little bit of stuff out in Hollywood and I you know sometimes when you're out there
[3:52]somebody'll say you know if you've got a screenplay they'll say well why don't you write this as a
[3:56]novel or if you've got you know a novel why isn't it a script or stories? I tend to think of things
[4:01]in totally discreet genres so for me if it's a story it's a story and it's not as if I'm sort of
[4:10]there's one story in the book that I could see developing further but most of the stories like
[4:14]they're done at 15 2020 from pages so I think that's because usually with a story you know
[4:21]there's a certain moment a revelation a turn and whereas within a novel you really live in a novel
[4:28]you know you get to know everything about the people and it's just to me it's a totally different
[4:35]endeavor so I had written a couple stories and then it just came down to contractually I owed
[4:42]little brown a book because I had two book contracts and I emailed my editor thinking that she
[4:47]should sort of say no because I technically owed them a novel and I said you know I'm really not
[4:52]feeling it right now it's a novel but I've got these stories that are burning a hole in my pocket
[4:56]and I've it almost began to seem as if you know I just need to write these down as opposed to I
[5:02]need to sit down and create a story and said okay I've got all the stories I just have to get them
[5:06]down I gotta get them written and my editor at Little Brown Judy Plain was incredibly nice and
[5:10]and gracious and said yeah if you raise right stories so that's sort of that was sort of the
[5:13]germination of doing a collection and over what period of time did you write it were you writing
[5:18]during COVID were you writing them all together what were some written years ago like tell us
[5:23]how how that part came together yeah exactly I mean you know work yes you know there's one or two
[5:29]stories in there that I worked on forever off and on and sort of wouldn't massage slightly
[5:34]and and revisit a year later because the nice thing about a story collection is that if you don't
[5:40]have the collection ready but let's say you have a couple individual stories why not revisit them
[5:45]if you haven't published them you can you can see if they're making sense to you and I love to let
[5:50]something rest for a minute and then look at it later because I'm somebody who revises a ton so
[5:56]I always feel it coming to it with a fresh eyes is is revelatory because you can sort of see oh it's
[6:01]nearly there but I've got to do excellent date but to your other point I in the main it was a
[6:05]COVID book so it was funny because we were you know the whole family was obviously camping out
[6:11]together and so it was kind of chaotic in its way but somehow escaping to my bedroom and just and
[6:18]just working on this worked somehow I think and so I kind of pushed it along during COVID and then
[6:24]ended up cutting one of the stories and like enough to include and I think sort of in terms of
[6:30]getting there there were just a couple that were written very quickly and they were a lot you
[6:35]know just to my mind they were they were very straightforward once I sort of knew where I was going
[6:39]with the collection whereas when I was just you know several years ago when I was starting one of the
[6:44]stories I remember just having no idea where I was headed and just so I'll see I've got this
[6:47]germ of an idea I'll see where it takes me. In one of the stories you know and going back to the point
[6:53]about certain vignettes or lines sticking with you in newed house I love the line where Susanna
[7:01]she's in college at the women's center and you write that it was an attempt at finding herself
[7:06]so misguided it could still make her wins 20 years later I loved it it was so relatable you know
[7:13]you think back to all these times in college where I don't know you just have a sort of an
[7:17]like just an outside sense of yourself of of certain things being important or significant
[7:24]and going like her the image of her sitting in there and thinking that this was her her space
[7:32]I love that who doesn't have the things that you could wince about 20 years later
[7:36]yeah obviously that line is a sort of moment in the story we're right I leap forward
[7:42]couple decades which I always think is interesting to do you know she in the characters is a person
[7:49]who for homes are going to college is this huge exciting thing and then you know she like many
[7:57]sort of naive people you know gets to college and just makes makes mistakes and is confused and
[8:03]and then I think the cringe worthy moments are always the ones that are worth drilling down on
[8:09]because why is it cringe worthy for someone else it wouldn't be right so it's that's that's really
[8:15]your cycle or the character of psychological makeup what was the real life story that inspired
[8:20]that story like what was the the thread that kind of pushed you to want to explore what could happen
[8:26]if it's funny that story is one of the ones that that I wrote for a long time and not longer
[8:34]and it finally reached it's it's the version that appeared in the collection and it was a story
[8:42]I wanted to write about someone who you know is this sort of goody tissues just kind of a goody
[8:48]tissues grade gover etc I was thinking about you know exactly remember why but I was thinking about how
[8:53]for some adolescents and you see this in every generation but some adolescents just sort of
[9:03]instead of rebelling traditional style and you know throwing keg or bonfires in the backyard
[9:10]they almost doubled down and and get you know closer to their parents and they're sort of you know
[9:15]staying home and going to the museums with their parents and so on at the same time I think at some
[9:21]point adolescents will out so at some point they are going to go through adolescents whether their
[9:29]their parents know about it whether they are you know the setting me maybe later maybe earlier
[9:34]the setting could be different so sort of thing but what happens to someone like that when
[9:40]you know all the other kids who peer group are out partying and you know having sex and so on
[9:45]and she sort of doing her goody tissues thing and then the sort of coda and the title and new
[9:52]hose and everything that is a germ that's from real life which is that so I had gone to boarding
[9:58]school and then when I got to call
[10:00]but my friends were a little bit artsier.
[10:02]And I had this one friend,
[10:04]a really, really significant friend,
[10:05]like that friend from freshman year
[10:07]that you sort of meet all your other friends through.
[10:09]And I remember one day, she said to me,
[10:12]I don't remember if I was actually wearing stockings or not.
[10:14]I may well have been.
[10:15]I think we were talking about like other fashion,
[10:17]but basically she made the point that everyone
[10:20]wears black tights and black shoes.
[10:23]And I sort of, all right.
[10:24]And then for the next four years,
[10:26]I was in black tights.
[10:27]But so it was one of those tiny little things.
[10:31]But for me, I certainly never wore black tights
[10:34]of boarding school.
[10:35]I was in, I think we had a little bit of a uniform
[10:37]and I was in for lack of a better word preppy or stuff.
[10:40]And then I got to college and I was kind of like,
[10:41]all right, you need a uniform.
[10:44]So I was thinking about how those little things can,
[10:47]I can't put on a pair of black tights
[10:48]without thinking of my friend Anna.
[10:50]So it was just that transitional moment
[10:53]showing up freshman year and thinking,
[10:56]oh, college could open up a whole new world
[10:59]if you could kind of get it right.
[11:01]I like, you tweeted out, TFW,
[11:04]when your parents friends say they can't wait
[11:05]to read your new book and you smile brightly thinking,
[11:08]as long as no one mentions the sex were good.
[11:11]And for the record, I had to Google TFW.
[11:14]So I'm like pretty out of it,
[11:15]but that feeling when for people who don't know.
[11:19]Yeah, I probably should do that out about a week before.
[11:21]Yeah, I'm very, my kids like a lot of fun
[11:25]of me for being so out of it.
[11:27]So which story was that referring to?
[11:29]Is there a specific one?
[11:31]Yeah, well, no, just in general.
[11:32]I mean, this book has, you know,
[11:34]sex in it and has sexual assault.
[11:36]It has, you know, the kind of runs the gamut.
[11:38]And so, you know, there is that funny way
[11:40]where you realize as your parents age,
[11:43]you know, you can't sit around kind of like thinking
[11:46]that you'll really start writing once, you know,
[11:48]they're gone.
[11:49]So you have to just write what you're compelled to write,
[11:52]but it is always funny when, you know,
[11:54]you think, oh, you know, your mother,
[11:56]my mother will say, who's so good at promoting my books
[11:58]and so she'll say, oh, last book.
[12:00]And you're thinking, what's that emoji with the hand
[12:03]covering this, you know, you're thinking, oh God, here we go.
[12:06]Because there is something sort of,
[12:08]I mean, writers put down on paper, right?
[12:10]We all have had experiences, obviously, you know,
[12:12]as my sister, I used to joke like we each have two kids.
[12:15]That means, you know, we've done it at least twice.
[12:18]So, but we have all these experiences,
[12:20]but it is, there's something about it
[12:22]that when the older Jen is going to confront it and read it,
[12:25]I still feel a little bit sheepish about it.
[12:29]And I have to kind of, you know, just skirt my teeth
[12:32]and do it anyway.
[12:34]I love it.
[12:35]Dear parents ever say anything about the sex in your pieces.
[12:39]And you're writing.
[12:39]Well, it's funny, because apparently my dad was reading the book
[12:44]and apparently he said to my sister something like,
[12:47]lot of sex in it.
[12:49]And so she just, she just did the money.
[12:51]You know, the one notes of, yep.
[12:54]Let's not, let's not go there.
[12:56]It sounds like you're close to your sister.
[12:58]Do you ever bring that relationship into your writing?
[13:01]Very, very close.
[13:02]Yeah, we have, I have one sibling where you're a part.
[13:05]I do.
[13:05]I mean, I've, I've observed a proper sister novel.
[13:08]I think a lot about sister novels,
[13:10]my favorite sister novels.
[13:11]I've, you know, I'd love to join that canon of sister novels.
[13:15]I've got a couple, a couple stories in my old collection spoiled
[13:20]that are obviously about sisters.
[13:22]I also sort of, you know, insider, insider white sheet.
[13:25]My sister lives in Tuscany.
[13:27]So, and has always lived in Europe for pretty much
[13:30]her entire adult life.
[13:32]So I've had, I've been lucky enough to have sort of
[13:35]insider access to Europe,
[13:36]which has been just really profound for my writing.
[13:39]So while, while, you know, the Italian story
[13:42]in this book, it's not about my sister in any way.
[13:45]But, you know, certainly being an Italy,
[13:49]in an up close way where I can really observe the differences
[13:52]and not, and not going as a tourist.
[13:55]She also lived in France, she lived in Germany.
[13:57]So, so she sort of is in all of my books in a way.
[14:02]That actually was going to be my question
[14:04]of whether or not you went to Italy for the short story
[14:07]of blind corner.
[14:09]Yeah, so I spent a lot of the time in Italy.
[14:12]I have spent, I should say I continue to spend.
[14:15]And I think she's been there 20 years.
[14:18]So we don't go every year, but when we, you know,
[14:22]we try to know when we can.
[14:24]And so that wasn't based on any particular incident
[14:28]exactly, but I spent a lot of time there.
[14:30]And I sort of seen the things that tourists bring
[14:33]to the table and that locals bring to the table
[14:36]and how that clash of cultures, even in a place like Italy
[14:39]that you think of as, you know,
[14:41]but it's Europe, right?
[14:43]People want everyone, you know, goes, et cetera.
[14:45]But even something as close in a sense as Italy,
[14:49]there can still be that clash of cultures
[14:51]that I think gives rise to interesting plots and themes.
[14:56]And I love how you explored it
[14:57]through the different perspectives.
[14:59]Oh, good. Oh, I'm glad.
[15:00]I'm glad.
[15:01]That was a little bit of a new thing for me.
[15:03]I'd been reading a lot of mavis galant who's one of my heroes
[15:07]and she's just amazing.
[15:08]And she's so crazy, good.
[15:09]Like she often will write from the perspective of,
[15:11]you know, she lives in Paris her whole life.
[15:13]So she'll write from the perspective of, you know,
[15:15]a French girl or so on.
[15:16]And it's so good that you, you just go with it.
[15:19]I think reading her almost freed me to try something like that.
[15:22]I thought, okay, fine, I'll try it too.
[15:23]It worked.
[15:24]It was great.
[15:25]So glad.
[15:27]I love the Pete.
[15:28]So turning to something else you recently wrote
[15:30]or over the summer in the Wall Street Journal,
[15:32]the age of emotional overstatement.
[15:34]Okay, so I love this because who isn't the parent
[15:38]who is trying to post something for their kids birthday
[15:41]and they think like, okay, I'm going to post these pictures.
[15:44]And is this really the space where I'm going to write,
[15:47]like every feeling I associate with my child
[15:51]and why isn't just like the caption for exclamation mark?
[15:56]Okay, you know, why do we feel, why do we feel this pressure?
[15:59]Can you tell me, can you tell everyone a bit about this idea?
[16:04]Yeah, it's funny.
[16:05]I do think a pendulum has swung back a little bit
[16:08]and I'm seeing more sort of off the cuff, you know,
[16:12]HPD, Bobby, and instead of the three paragraph and combi,
[16:17]I'm two, two, you know, the perfect child.
[16:20]But I don't know if I don't know why exactly
[16:24]but social media just lends itself to this overstatement.
[16:29]And it's funny because after I wrote my piece
[16:32]of my friends were all razzing me, like,
[16:34]guess you're not going to heart this and, okay, no,
[16:36]we won't expect a heart from you on this.
[16:38]And of course the hearting is a really nice shorthand
[16:42]to be like, thank you so much.
[16:43]You know, or really appreciate this.
[16:45]It's come to stand for so many things
[16:47]that of course it has crept back into my own responses.
[16:51]But I think it's driven by many things.
[16:53]I think it's driven definitely by just pure love
[16:56]for your kid.
[16:57]I think a lot of it slash most of it is probably genuine.
[17:00]I think it may be driven a little bit by pressure.
[17:03]I think it has to do.
[17:04]It's sort of related in my mind to the fact
[17:06]that we video every last damn moment over kids lives.
[17:10]Now I remember when my girls were in grade school,
[17:13]I remember some mom saying,
[17:17]I don't really want a video this,
[17:18]but she wants me to.
[17:20]And it was almost as if you weren't a good mother,
[17:22]if you weren't videoing everything.
[17:24]And I think social media can sort of throw down the gauntlet,
[17:29]like, you know, how good a mother are you?
[17:31]If you're a really good mother or father,
[17:33]you're, you know, you're really going to go over the top
[17:36]and so in the middle, of course, there were people
[17:38]who decided or what I did is to, you know,
[17:40]I tried it a bit and it just felt so awkward to me
[17:43]because my family's not like that.
[17:45]We're sort of grunting and withholding.
[17:47]And, you know, so it just felt incredibly awkward.
[17:50]And so I kind of tried it in this knowledge right way
[17:54]once or twice and then I went back to happy red days.
[17:57]But yeah, I think there's something that social media
[17:59]just, you know, these are these emojis are right there.
[18:02]And I also just think it's the times.
[18:05]It's the zeitgeist, right?
[18:06]There's this pressure to be incredibly enthusiastic
[18:09]over the top of it.
[18:10]Everything, whereas older generations were much more,
[18:14]you know, sort of calculating out with holding more measured,
[18:17]I would say in their emotional expressions.
[18:20]I kept thinking about it because it feels like,
[18:23]you know, it sort of like takes the nuance out of emotion
[18:26]in a way I had this experience yesterday
[18:28]where my mother texted a picture of like the memorial
[18:33]plaque at our synagogue for my grandmother
[18:36]and I hearted it in the text chain.
[18:38]And then I hearted like an Amy Schumer post, you know?
[18:42]It's, why does that get the same reaction?
[18:48]Exactly.
[18:49]And the sort of hot shot that I took in the article
[18:53]is that sometimes I'll tell my dog sitter
[18:56]that I decided not to go away that weekend.
[19:00]I'm sorry, I've got a cancel or something like that.
[19:02]I'll get a red heart and that's younger generation.
[19:06]So, and then yeah, right, exactly.
[19:08]Versus some like incredibly profound thing
[19:11]where a family member has died and you're honoring that
[19:15]and you really, you're really moved
[19:18]and it's incredibly emotional for you.
[19:21]So it's funny and I don't really see a way back.
[19:24]I don't know how it's gonna scale back
[19:27]unless the new iteration of the social media
[19:30]maybe won't be as emoji prone, I'm not sure.
[19:34]Well, cause even thinking about like using
[19:37]the certain emojis within older generation, right?
[19:40]Like if you put a heart and it's like a red heart
[19:43]when you're texting with someone who's a little older,
[19:45]like it might mean some, there might be like a more of a love
[19:49]or it might feel a little less appropriate with it.
[19:53]And the way I'm thinking about this is it reminds me
[19:56]of like maybe 10 years ago talking to us.
[19:59]And,
[20:00]not older man, but like one or two generations above it. And he was saying, you know, I didn't
[20:05]know, I thought selfie meant something kind of untoward. And and now it's like
[20:12]selfie is just part of the mainstream, you know. And so I kind of feel that way with the heart
[20:18]also like, no, it doesn't mean I love you or it like, yeah, right. And it's also curious to me that
[20:27]I mean, maybe it's just this people don't have time to look for the purple heart or the yellow
[20:30]heart or whatever. And I don't really know what those mean. But why is it all the language of
[20:35]passionate romantic love? Yeah. So which is, which is kind of funny too. I mean, and the kids,
[20:42]this is just observing my own teenagers, but the kids are so over the top that I mean,
[20:49]it's, you know, as I put it on the piece and sort of love you. You're amazing. And on the one
[20:54]hand that's probably better than this sort of harsh, harshness and criticism of the 80s. But
[21:00]on the other hand, you kind of wonder if it all just feels kind of anxiety making an
[21:03]interfere and empty. So I think I'll continue to contemplate that. Please explore this. Like,
[21:10]how do you connect? Because I often think, I mean, obviously the children that are less than
[21:15]mental health crisis and the way in which our children are growing up. Like, how do you link that
[21:19]to the anxiety? Well, I think that just as there are incredibly harsh critical things that people
[21:26]say online that they wouldn't say to your face, it almost feels like the other side of the coin
[21:31]there is the the over the top praise that people post on social media that they probably
[21:38]wouldn't say to your face, but maybe maybe they would. I don't know. But it just seems sort of
[21:44]really, really, really, really need your and it could mask a host of actual reactions. You
[21:51]might, let's say you see someone's post and, you know, I don't know, they're on the beach somewhere
[21:56]glamorous and your actual reaction is sort of, I don't know, vague jealousy. And then you're posting
[22:02]three red hearts as your response and love you, honey and whatever. Then there's that disconnect.
[22:08]And I think I think straightforward communication is a way to counter anxiety. And this
[22:17]all this BS to be a little bit harsh, but oh, you know, the continual kind of crazy, there's no
[22:25]way that a thousand girls love this person, right? There's no way that they are all that enthusiastic.
[22:32]So then it just sort of seems performative and they're just, you know, doing it to make sure that
[22:37]she doesn't think that they don't fit, you know, and instead of learning, you know, you go
[22:41]throughout a lesson, you have to take the baton and run with it instead of learning to communicate
[22:46]with your peer group in a straightforward way, which is always difficult and fast. That's a
[22:51]really tricky, sticky, tough moment. You're, you know, you're doubling down on the faithness.
[22:57]So it just perpetuates this like Instagram versus reality and blurs the lines also.
[23:04]I think so. And then it's a little bit hard to take that and then write a sort of,
[23:10]I don't know, appropriate serious note to someone that's neither hugely sucking up nor,
[23:17]you know, nor going off on someone in a, in a range attack. You know, it's, it's really hard.
[23:22]I think this whole country is having an issue with that. It's just baseline straightforward
[23:27]communication. I mean, you think of, you know, the generation of like George HW Bush, right?
[23:32]The greatest gen, those guys weren't. You can't, you can't picture them speaking, writing,
[23:38]or, you know, even writing personally in this way. So you see how, how far the culture has
[23:45]shifted. Right. Like I grew up being told in a professional email, you don't write, you would love
[23:50]to do something. Right. Like I'd love to talk to you as a journalist, reaching out to people and
[23:56]saying, I'd really love to speak to you about X. That was, that was a no-no, you would say,
[24:00]I'm interested in, or I'd like to, or please consider speaking with me. But now I feel like
[24:05]that's not, that's not the case. Precisely. And I think, as I also mentioned in the piece,
[24:10]there's all this pressure from above, say, from job applications and college applications and
[24:15]so on that you've got to, it's almost like you have to constantly be doing your passion
[24:19]tap dance to prove that you're, you really want this. Yeah. And it's just not like that.
[24:25]That's not, it's not really real life. Even if you do have a talent that you're dedicated to.
[24:30]You know, at the end of the day, maybe you do love something, but that's when we speak these things
[24:36]over and over, it just waters it down. And it makes it, you know, it sort of ruins it because you
[24:42]may have put in 20 years of dedication to your instrument or whatever it is. And then, and then
[24:47]suddenly having to, you know, people who do that, I don't think they go around sort of,
[24:52]you know, saying, oh, yeah, I love, you know, this yo-yo mom going around being like,
[24:56]I love the chill out. It's my passion. I mean, no, right? I'm like, give it.
[25:03]Is writing your passion? Well, it's funny because I always wanted to write as a kid.
[25:10]I loved, you know, creative writing in school and so on. I always wrote stories as a little kid.
[25:14]And it was definitely something I felt compelled to do. At the same time, you know, anyone who
[25:22]went on this podcast is who's finished a book knows that, you know, you write, you write a loan
[25:26]in a room with self-doubt and you make your own schedule. Also, you know, you're fitting in where
[25:32]you can. You have to be your own master or so on. So obviously, writing's hard. So I'm always
[25:39]a little suspect when someone says they love writing. It's more just, it's sort of a part of
[25:45]who I am. And so I'll always do it and I feel compelled to do it. But it'd be funny. I wouldn't
[25:50]naturally, unless it was applying to college next year. I wouldn't naturally describe it as,
[25:57]you know, it's my passion. It is funny to think about like a 17 year old kid knowing what their
[26:04]passion is. Right? And so much pressure. It's so much pressure. And I don't think they real,
[26:10]I think they think that they're being kind to the applicants by saying, we want you to shine,
[26:16]it's actually a form of pressure. If you drill down, it's it's pressure to what about the kid who's
[26:21]incredibly bright works incredibly hard, does incredibly well. And I suddenly, oh, well, God, I don't have
[26:26]a passion. You know, who am I? You know, it's it's it's actually a form of pressure. Great.
[26:30]Caitlin, Macy, what's next? What are you working on right now? I'm just sort of novel. So yeah, I'm
[26:35]excited about it. It's it's set in in sort of pre during in post COVID, but it with with many flashbacks
[26:44]to the 90s, New York in the 90s. And it's going to be a first person novel. I'm sort of keeping it,
[26:50]not not that anyone cares, but I'm sort of keeping it under wraps because I'm at that point
[26:55]where it's almost like you have a bird in the hand and you're afraid if you show it to someone,
[26:58]it'll fly away. So, but I'm working on novel. I haven't written a first person novel since my first
[27:04]novel fundamentals of play. I'm excited to get back to it. It's it feels really great to be back
[27:09]to the first person. And also it's funny, I've tended to, I've tended to alternate between
[27:15]novel story novel stories. And and it's when I'm writing one, I can't see writing the other
[27:20]at all. And now that I'm sort of writing a novel, it's a relief to be back into a longer work.
[27:24]How long is the process? You know, sort of how long will it take to write the novel?
[27:28]Yeah. It's a really good question. It's a really long time to write my third book, my second novel,
[27:35]partly because of health issues and partly because I had my kids, we moved to London,
[27:41]we moved back. So it just took really forever. And then this look of stories was a lot quicker.
[27:46]So I'm actually hoping to get through a draft of this by the spring. I'm really trying to,
[27:50]you know, keep a pace, not a lightning fast pace, but just say 500 words a day and just keep
[27:57]marching along because it feels like I kind of have it. And I sort of know where I want to go with
[28:02]it. So I'd like it to not take too long. Then with the lead times in terms of publishing and so on,
[28:08]they seem to need more and more time because because of all the social media and so on in the
[28:13]promoting. So, you know, I would love to finish it and sell it in the spring. And then, you know,
[28:19]probably be a year, another year of edits and and all that. So fingers crossed to make it,
[28:24]I'm going on record. Well, no, I have to do it. Thank you. Well, you know, not to be
[28:30]tripe, but all the fingers crossed heart emojis. And really, I am really excited to read. I
[28:37]just love your writing and fundamentals of play with some, a book that I read when I was living
[28:41]in New York years and years ago and just loved it. I love it when people mentioned fundamentals
[28:46]because it was, you know, it's your first child. Well, it was a great baby. So thank you so much.
[28:56]Yeah. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed too. So thank you for your support.
[28:59]Okay. Let me see. Thank you. Bye-bye.
[29:03]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to
[29:07]follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also, sign up for
[29:12]my newsletter at ZB Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom
[29:18]every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan. Heck, texture sound for the sound editing.
[29:22]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[29:26]now trim music.