David Ambroz, A PLACE CALLED HOME: A Memoir
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now
[0:07]Thank you so much. Called moms. Don't have time to read books
[0:10]It is a daily podcast
[0:12]365 days a year and each day we talk to an author about all of the things related to their career
[0:18]Their book their life and more in 30 minutes or less because who has time?
[0:22]I am now an author myself
[0:24]Although I wasn't when I started this podcast and you can get my new memoir book ends
[0:29]A memoir of love, loss and literature wherever books are sold starting July 1st and my children's book prints is charming
[0:36]You can learn more about me at Zivi Owens.com
[0:39]But really you're here to learn more about the authors and that is what we're going to do
[0:43]Also, be sure to check out all the other podcasts in the zcast podcast network
[0:49]You can learn more at zcastnetwork.com and definitely check out those shows as well
[0:58]David Ambrose is the author of a place called home a memoir
[1:02]Which if you follow me on instagram you will see that I selected as my book of the year
[1:07]Which I wasn't even gonna do
[1:09]But I loved it so much that I was trying to make a statement and say literally this is the best book
[1:13]I read this year
[1:14]It's the most inspiring amazing story and you really all have to read it. It is so good. I could not put it down
[1:23]David's life has been just a huge story of resilience overcoming and
[1:29]Making a difference and the power of being a kind person and
[1:34]Oh my gosh, it's changed my life
[1:37]So anyway, more about him. David is a national poverty and child welfare expert and advocate
[1:42]He was recognized by president Obama as an American champion of change
[1:46]He currently serves as the head of community engagement West for Amazon
[1:50]Coordinating with nonprofits and community leaders for social good
[1:54]Previously, he led corporate social responsibility for Walt Disney television and served as the president of the Los Angeles City Planning Commission
[2:01]And as a California child welfare council member
[2:05]After growing up homeless and then in foster care
[2:08]He graduated from Vassar and later from UCLA School of Law
[2:11]He is a foster dad and lives in Los Angeles, California
[2:15]You literally all have to go read this book
[2:17]You'll hear me just like swoon over David in his story, but
[2:22]I was even inspired to donate
[2:24]Significantly to together we rise to help foster youth
[2:27]and if you are so moved
[2:30]It's called together we rise and you can join me in doing that but listen to the podcast
[2:35]You'll see why he's so wonderful and then please go by the book read the book really read it. It took me one day
[2:40]I just like stopped everything else because I was so
[2:44]Immersed. I hope you feel the same way
[2:46]Welcome David. Thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books
[2:51]Discuss a place called home and memoir
[2:53]Thank you so much
[2:56]As you know, I've been like stalking you. I feel like on my dms because I read your whole book
[3:02]I had started it of course before
[3:03]But I finally had time to read the whole thing and could not put it down
[3:08]Finished it in one day. It's amazing. Your story is amazing
[3:13]Your writing is amazing. The whole thing. I just I'm my hats off to you
[3:21]Very grateful and I'm also want to hug you for reading it all in one day. I think it's a it's a lot
[3:28]and a lot of folks have expressed similarly
[3:31]But I know that it's a lot to get through. There's a lot of
[3:34]Just real experiences that I had that have been daunting for folks to read through not just because they had the same thing
[3:40]But it's like related to their own life
[3:41]So thank you for spending the time with little David Amfros. Yes
[3:45]That was my Thanksgiving in fact my my brother was a little annoyed at the end
[3:49]He's like you were in a book all day again. Like come on. I was like no, it was just such a good book
[3:55]I was like anyone surprised
[3:57]So they know you come on me. I know I know I was like I was I was in the room where the football was going on
[4:03]I just you know I don't want to watch the fun. I want to read you know
[4:06]It was nothing better though
[4:08]But it was so fitting to read on Thanksgiving and it actually it helped not helped
[4:13]But it gave so much more meaning to the day and the sense of family and what you went through and making sure
[4:19]I mean, we all say over so grateful blah blah blah but
[4:22]Hearing your story from start to finish and what you went through and your search for family and what you
[4:28]The bad lottery card you were dealt in your life
[4:31]Basically and how you've overcome everything was like the perfect thing so
[4:36]Okay, I'll stop like fawning, but why don't you talk?
[4:39]Why you tell listeners a little about what your memoir is really about and why you decided to share your very very personal
[4:46]Story and as you said some very painful moments with the rest of us
[4:51]Yeah, you know my story began 40 plus years ago in
[4:55]New York City. I was born into homelessness a lot of folks have asked me
[5:00]Kind of about the before or time and I don't have it before time
[5:04]I never remember a place where we live the place we would call home
[5:08]We constantly were moving from my earliest memory
[5:12]Living in the nooks and crannies of New York City and then other places ultimately
[5:17]It was about survival, you know, it was about where the next meals coming from was about what violence is going on around us
[5:24]It was in the midst of a city that was grappling with an AIDS epidemic that I didn't understand
[5:28]And we were going from shelter to train station to park and around and around
[5:34]You know, I had a brother and a sister
[5:35]I have a brother and a sister so very close with and a mom who was cursed with a mental illness
[5:41]And I actually start the book with the dedication to my mom and I think as you read
[5:45]I love her very much in fact
[5:46]I'm actually her caregiver today all these years later and I start the dedication to my mom because
[5:52]What are the messages in the book? I hope people get is how
[5:57]Painful it is to lose a family member to mental health
[6:00]So many people in our country are robbed because of this this criminal called mental health and we don't talk about it
[6:08]And we don't support families that are grappling with someone that might have some challenges
[6:12]So my mom gets the first page of the book. It's dedicated to my mom who taught me to conquer one impossible thing at a time and to forgive
[6:20]We went through that whole cycle of poverty and then ultimately ended up in foster care and
[6:26]I say to folks and I
[6:28]I mean this is that I learned when I went into foster care that hell had a basement and
[6:33]What I experienced there. I only talked about a few of the foster homes
[6:37]And other than one wonderful foster family. I had a really negative experience for many reasons
[6:43]But again, I hope folks no longer way condemning social workers or foster parents. I hope that they realize is
[6:49]What have we individually done to support foster kids and these people that are actually opening up their homes and
[6:56]Perfect as they are
[6:57]So we went I went through foster care separated from my siblings and ultimately committed a little bit of fraud and got a grant to study in Spain
[7:05]Where I
[7:07]Really began the process of rebuilding a human out of out of the pieces of almost 18 years of violence and poverty
[7:14]Oh my goodness
[7:16]Do you feel that your mother's mental illness was something that with the right treatment and medication?
[7:23]She could have overcome like you say you're her caregiver now
[7:26]And I really like for like yes to this book, but like they're an alternate world where you feel like had she just been on the right meds
[7:32]Or had she just been in a facility the abuse and the horrifying events that
[7:38]She inflicted upon your siblings would be remedy like was that a possibility?
[7:44]So, you know
[7:46]Two-thirds of the kids entering foster care are there because of neglect which is euphemism for poverty
[7:51]So we're breaking up families because people missed a rent check or can't provide food
[7:56]More than half the schools in country provide free lunch to the majority of their students, which means the parents aren't eating
[8:03]So my mom is not one of those two-thirds that are entering because of neglect. We were in the system because we desperately needed to be at her custody
[8:12]Her mental health issues are treatable. However, it doesn't mean that she's going to be quote unquote normal
[8:17]She can never parent. She should never have parented
[8:20]And that will just be the rest of her life and and from her earliest teenage years as I understand it was her situation
[8:27]She was in
[8:28]however
[8:30]What she did to us and what she what we survived
[8:34]Can't compare in my mind to the jail that she's in my mom is in a prison of delusions and has been since she was a child
[8:41]And I can't imagine what it's like to live like that constantly fearful constantly
[8:46]So her illness while we can mitigate it with
[8:49]Medication and she's stable
[8:51]now and has housing
[8:53]Will never be quote unquote cured. It can be be treated. It can be mitigated
[8:59]And my mom can live a decent humane life not devolving on the streets of the city
[9:05]Afraid of shadows and that is the best we can hope for and that's what I'm very proud and
[9:10]Humbled to had the responsibility to do for my mom. I mean the empathy that you're showing like this could have gone in so many ways like to say
[9:20]I find it hard to believe there could be anything
[9:23]Worse than some of the things that you endured and to say that it would be worse for her even though
[9:28]She inflicted it is just the most sort of magnanimous act of generosity of spirit really
[9:35]To even say you know
[9:37]But thank you and
[9:41]You I got little chills. It's hard. You know when people hurt you
[9:45]It's really hard
[9:46]But this thing I've always been able to do and it's like yoga. You have to practice it
[9:50]And I'm speaking probably to a bunch of moms
[9:53]It's my mother
[9:55]And my mom if she had cancer we wouldn't condemn her
[10:00]We wouldn't. We would love her. We would put ourselves in a color in March, but because of what she has
[10:05]She has certain
[10:06]Manifestation just certain outbursts. She has certain violence is and it doesn't mean I I can be okay with that like the physical pain that
[10:14]near death experiences, but
[10:16]My mom and I don't want my mom suffering and I choose not to be mad at my mom because of this illness. She has and it's something I have to
[10:25]Visit my siblings aren't the same all of us have different
[10:28]Resolutions with her and I am much more involved in her life and my siblings are and that's fine. That's my choice
[10:34]but
[10:36]There's so many kids that are parents and mental health issues and we just
[10:40]They just suffer and I want people to see a different route
[10:44]I want people to have empathy towards these women like my mom who are poor and suffering and not condemn her
[10:50]I mean I think one of the many things you did so well is point out in a very sort of analytical way as
[10:57]You describe your own emotional journey some of the barriers and systemic issues that are facing
[11:04]People in poverty people with in foster care all of these
[11:09]Things including something like
[11:11]Not only mental health treatment, but even health care for get even your teeth with your teeth. Oh my gosh
[11:18]You know all these the
[11:21]Basic things that you're like here here are the eight million reasons why this is not happening
[11:26]And that's not happening and here's what happens as a result of that and you know what you gently do at the end of every
[11:33]Chapter almost is say like okay, we are all culpable here
[11:38]Like this is not the fault of this one family. This is our system letting
[11:43]This happen and everyone reading this and everyone is a part of this. It is known
[11:48]Just the perpetrators like talk a little about that. I got shows up again
[11:53]It's it's beautiful to be seen and to have someone understand what I was trying to do
[11:58]Which is this is not a bucket of things that happened to me nor am I throwing stones of people that wrong to me
[12:04]It's not what this is about. It's not what my life's about
[12:06]I think of poverty as women's work not because I think it should be
[12:11]Because that's what our society has done
[12:12]we've the majority of people suffering in poverty that have children are women and
[12:17]moms and
[12:20]That system that we have we need a army of women probably in their allies
[12:25]to fix it
[12:27]Because people like my mom and without mental health issues are put through the grinder
[12:31]We had to have an address in order to apply for rental assistance
[12:35]We had to have an address to receive food stamps. We didn't have even those things
[12:39]It's insane and I remember I had this analogy in my mind kind of as I was growing up
[12:44]It's like the the families are living in poverty and the water and they're drowning and this life boat comes along
[12:51]And this person reaches out and pulls the person out of the water and that and the woman and the children go
[12:57]They breathe in deeply. They're like thank you and then the program drops them
[13:02]But don't worry. There's another program in the boat. That's gonna lift him out for two minutes
[13:06]What if we pull the person out of the water and put them in the damn boat humans are messy. There's not a solution
[13:14]So we need a system and approach to lift people out of poverty, but here's the kicker
[13:20]We're doing it in my lifetime. We've halved the number of kids living in poverty
[13:26]If we constantly scream fire no one wants to go into that building
[13:31]We have to actually pay people to go into burning buildings
[13:35]The public means understand we're winning. We just have to work harder and faster because the kids need us to
[13:40]So I think poverty programs imperfect as they are we have to stop denigrating government. We are the government
[13:46]I am here today because of imperfect food stamps and perfect rental assistance and perfect violence mitigation programs in perfect schools and yet here I am
[13:55]I think we have to honor that and make them work harder and better
[13:58]And we can do that. I read the other day
[14:02]And it goes to a earlier question. Why did I write this? There are a hundred and eighteen thousand almost children in New York City
[14:10]Yes, that's right. You're like no a hundred and eighteen thousand
[14:15]Think about the town you grew up in
[14:18]And imagine they're all children
[14:20]We have to work harder better and faster
[14:23]But we're doing it and I'm very optimistic. We can do it. We have to design systems that
[14:28]Embrace messiness. I worked on extending foster care to 21 because who is truly independent at 18? Who's independent at 30?
[14:37]So we're we're making progress and I'm very very bullish on our our capability as a people
[14:44]We I think Americans are inherently good. I mean I just I fundamentally believe that despite everything
[14:51]And we just have to tap into that well of goodness to motivate our elected people to work harder and faster
[14:57]To lift people like my family up to support
[15:00]Good systems that that don't abuse kids and we can do it
[15:04]Do you think there's so you you thought through the whole system?
[15:07]And obviously you become an advocate for it
[15:09]And you we share we we get to walk through the the journey and your
[15:13]The one
[15:15]Where's it in New Jersey or somewhere we took the trade and now sat there and you came up with all these ways of
[15:20]You know, can you give foster parents pensions and like let's instant let's give incentives for people to do this in another way
[15:26]Like let's see what we can do and you've you've rethought the system from the inside out
[15:30]And you are the perfect person right to be the the the change maker in this area
[15:35]Is there another is there like a privatized foster care system?
[15:39]Is there something else other than because I feel like one of the messages at the end is make sure to elect the right people
[15:45]To the positions who can make who can affect these changes and you know
[15:49]A lot goes into each candidate like can we is it all on them?
[15:53]Like what else can we as citizens do to help?
[15:57]Like I'm sitting here near you and I'm like 118,000 kids are outside the wind like what what can we do today
[16:03]To help you know, and there are so many different non-profits and organizations helping but like where if you
[16:11]If there was someone some way to have been helped
[16:15]Either systemically individually where you know and what can people listening to?
[16:21]That was my
[16:23]The most important question and first read the afterward as you you're referencing. That's like a very mapped out approach to how we can fix it
[16:31]First and foremost what I asked folks to do is close their eyes and imagine putting their own child in a foster care and
[16:40]What does that system look like?
[16:43]That is what we need to build
[16:45]We don't need to fix this or tweak that or blah, blah, blah
[16:48]If we don't have that that's the problem and that's why we have the system and the outcomes we have today
[16:54]So if you're always wondering out there, what do we do?
[16:57]Constantly put yourselves in that moment where I put the most precious thing to me in the custody of the state
[17:04]What who's in charge? What are they doing? What are the frontline workers look like?
[17:08]What are they acting like? What are their incentives?
[17:10]And if we don't have that you need to constantly be steering the ship towards it
[17:15]And that steering is going to depend on your resources both economic and time and capacity and whatever measurement
[17:21]So I don't ask everyone to help every single homeless person off the street
[17:24]That's just not realistic. In fact, it'll do the opposite. It'll make you jaded
[17:29]Instead of starting every sentence as we often do as people is I can't because
[17:35]We have to reorient
[17:37]We are a country that sent a person to the moon and now we are proud when we fill a pothole
[17:42]We shouldn't be proud of that
[17:44]We should get back to that energy as a country and as a people where we can send people to other planets
[17:50]Okay, great. What does that mean in physical reality?
[17:54]It's not enough once every couple years to vote
[17:57]It's just not enough. It does not this or a democracy or a public make
[18:01]We have to be engaged as citizens and I love your pod especially as moms
[18:06]You know every time I watch an election
[18:08]They're always talking about the moms, you know, where the moms where the suburban moms where the moms
[18:12]And they've evolved right like soccer moms this mom Latina moms like they're always it's but it's always moms
[18:18]Because it's the beating heart of our country
[18:21]And I think constantly about how do I reach these people that are like my mom
[18:25]You know, loved us and perfectly. It's a love to us because that empathy is what we need
[18:31]A tsunami of it into our politics
[18:34]Not since 1999
[18:36]Has a presidential debate brought up child poverty
[18:40]Every single debate has talked about coal miners, which we should talk about
[18:44]There's a couple thousand up there are 8.4 million children in America living in poverty
[18:52]8.4
[18:54]Why don't we talk about it?
[18:56]Well, who's going to start that conversation?
[18:59]But people that are parents moms we have to ask her elected leaders every school board meeting
[19:04]I want a mom to go there and be like, how are you helping homeless children?
[19:09]Do you have a food bank there for kids? Do you have a clothing closet?
[19:13]How do you how do you integrate a kid that's from foster care that's just pop into the school?
[19:19]Are they allowed to play sports? Do they need a do they need fees? I'll raise money for that
[19:24]Constantly if that's your capability ask that question. Maybe you're married to an elected. Maybe you are an elected
[19:31]Constantly bring this stuff up right because let's women are an office women have power women are moms
[19:39]We can do this we can integrate this population in our hearts and minds children
[19:45]We should be constantly talking about them, but we don't people know every single
[19:51]Member of the spring court. How many of us know our school boards?
[19:56]When I think about equity when I think about the murder of George
[20:00]Floyd, no one can name a local spirit or judge, but they're the ones who convict young boys of color.
[20:06]But we know when we fetishize politics in DC, why don't we look local and see what we can do as individuals.
[20:13]If you walk by a homeless person and you think I can't because fine, I get it, I do that too.
[20:19]But the pivot, the fundamental change, the moonshot for children and poverty is to then switch and go.
[20:26]What can I do? And for each of us, that's going to be different. I have a afterward in my book. It's a policy document. It's a love letter.
[20:34]It's very simply written, trying to get folks to focus on foster care as a fulcrum point where we can change things and intervene.
[20:42]But what I hope we do is reorient ourselves to be a country that sends people to the moon is a country that wants to end child poverty because we must.
[20:49]Okay, you need to run for president. That's my why why would you not do that? Like you're the perfect. Like this is like so many people are so negative. There's so much divisive chatter. Everything we can't do and it's all seem so dire and terrible. And here you are. You're like, I have faith. I'm like, really? You're the one? Yes. I do. I have like endless days. Like I, I'm sitting here in my home. I own my home. I own my home folks. Like,
[21:20]I was the president of the planning commission of Los Angeles. And I remember when the mayor appointed me, which is the person who oversees real estate and all sorts of things. And the mayor America city appointed me on like mayor.
[21:31]Like, are you sure? And he's like, you're absolutely the right person to do this. And I sat up there for seven and a half years overseeing real estate construction home development, all this stuff cannabis home sharing. And I remember sitting up there all the time being like, I had a little bit of the imposter syndrome.
[21:49]And I just thought about the four year old boy living in Grand Central or or in the nooks and crannies of the city. And I'm like, I'm going to imbue everything that I do.
[21:59]And remember, and this one guy that I remember he was arguing against a shelter for women and children. He's a member of the public. He didn't testify.
[22:08]And he said, if these women can't handle their kids, they should have had abortions.
[22:12]And I am like, I'm for the most for now. Like, I'm dying because there's these women from the shelter that are sitting in the front row that are happy to hear this vitriol, this hate, which is what our public debate has devolved into.
[22:26]And I did a point of order and I interrupted him and I just said, Hey, if you're trying to convince me to vote against a shelter for women and children, I say, my mom should have aborted me and my siblings, you're not going to get my vote.
[22:39]We need an army of people and what other country would I even be alive? What other timing would I be alive? Never mind having one of the most powerful positions to shut that down to vote for that project.
[22:51]And I am so bullish that we can do more. We've had the number of kids and poverty folks. Let's do that again every two years until it's zero. We can do it.
[23:01]Yes. I know I've been talking a lot about what we can take away from the book and I'm not showing as much in the book because I feel like it's so important for people to hear, but you have to say having gone, having like, you know, gone through all of what you went through, you know, just by reading.
[23:17]You know, there's also this whole element of, you know, the sexuality discrimination that you went through and having so many people change you and then you're having to come to terms with that and not feeling like there is a home for you sort of within the
[23:30]system. Talk about that a little. I, David is showing us a Mickey Mouse hat with rainbow years. That moment, by the way, the end of the chapter about Disney World.
[23:43]I literally like closed the book for a minute and I was like, I have chills up and down my bot. This is like the month. I read it out loud. I read that section out loud to my husband. I was like, listen to that.
[23:52]Anyway, well, I want to talk about Disney, but I also want to talk about the fact that your bookshelf is rainbow, which I love, you know, my lessons about my sexual orientation began as a child.
[24:01]I was in New York City and there's, and I didn't understand it, but I sort of understood it was the all around me were young men, dying of AIDS.
[24:09]They were in the shelters. They were on the streets and the lesson was profoundly clear and I was a child. I didn't understand it exactly, but I sort of understood this kids do these things.
[24:20]Things in general is that this is wrong. I am wrong. There's something wrong with me and this is what's going to happen.
[24:27]And then, you know, in most states, it was illegal for me to even have conceptual sex until I was in my 30s when I went into foster care.
[24:34]I was diagnosed with something at the time. It's still on the DSM, but it's it's differently applied. It's called gender identification disorder.
[24:42]And through active therapy, I'll practice, I would say, and physical and other violence throughout my time, except for Holly and Steve, my foster parents folks tried to make me less gay.
[24:55]I just tell the listeners that I am a committed homosexual and very happy, but it was violent and painful, but, you know, just like with my mom, I think about my life.
[25:06]And I don't need to be religious or a for against religion to believe that I can't help but think that my life was what it was to make me a tool for good.
[25:16]And one of the goods that I feel I'm proudest of in my life is I worked very, very much for very long time to outlaw the curing of gay kids in foster care and our country.
[25:33]And it took until President Obama's second term, but we did it. And I'm very proud to have been part of that and leader in that movement with child well for league of America and land,
[25:43]and others. But if I hadn't had that experience, it wouldn't end up that fire.
[25:47]The kids that I may have still been experiencing some of that are so I'm very proud of that that work, but that's what I try to do with all of these things and say,
[25:58]Okay, what can I do with this? What should we do? How can I be part of the solution? How can I stop throwing stones? Because we live in a place where we can actually make the change we want to say.
[26:09]And it took decades. And that was so hard because I knew that every single day kids were going through repair to therapy. I knew about the violence.
[26:20]I knew exactly what they were going through. And it took me decades to deal with it, which is part of the reason you asked first. Why did I write the book? Many reasons. One of which was the shame I had for all of the things done to me.
[26:34]All of the things I survived. I was just mortified that a people knew. And I was just done. I reached my mid 30s and I was like, you know,
[26:44]I got to let this should go. I got to move forward. I got to release this balance. That's holding me back and let the winded myself take me even farther. And part of it was,
[26:54]you know, we're still being debated today, aren't we? You know, our civil rights are in jeopardy. The Senate is hopefully going to vote in this lame duck session, whether or not I can have a relationship as recognized by the state.
[27:05]The work is not done. But I'm very proud that I took all this horror and did something with it. And my own gratitude. It took very long time.
[27:17]It didn't take a long time. You're doing such a good job. It's superhuman what you're doing. I literally am sitting here listening to you being like, look at all this love and his heart.
[27:29]It's so unlikely to have come out of what you went through in this position of kindness and help. And you know, I know this is what you were like all along, but still like to not have been robbed of this. Your fundamental goodness as a person is amazing. And it's not like it's, I mean, you're doing it every day. And it's amazing.
[27:53]Thank you. I appreciate that. And, you know, the work continues. I'm working right now on a project. So a third of the homeless in LA in most cities actually country coastal cities are former foster kids, a third, we're emancipating kids at 18.
[28:12]And so I'm working on a project to build a dorm at a community college to emancipate them into two year vocational or transfer. And we own the land. We have a vocational crisis in the country.
[28:23]These kids are our children as a people. And these are our institutions. We can do this. And that's how I feel so much about all these issues is somehow we've learned.
[28:33]We have this learned in difference or benign neglect, except it's not benign. We're neglecting the public square. And if I don't channel all this stuff into something, I think I would lose my mind.
[28:47]I think I would be hard and grumpy and I don't know. I I was thought of happiness is like a peak. You kind of get to the peak and then you know you come down and you hopefully get to it again.
[28:58]I'm at a plateau. I'm like chillaxing at the top. I'm super happy. I constantly am like, okay, what can we do? What do I do? And I relax. I think bread.
[29:09]I'm literally wearing a little lemon pants with a decent shirt. Like I have a good life. But if we kind of renew that faith in each other, it makes this richer. I am happier for it.
[29:20]I meet the most interesting people. I advance my career. I have such weird ass adventures. Like who gets recognized by the President of the United States.
[29:29]Like President Obama, who do you respect more than President Obama? These things are meaningful and they're seen and we should all be doing more of them.
[29:37]I kind of love that I've had this forest gump life of mine that's let me have these experiences.
[29:46]I feel like your book needs to be a movie. I mean, I know it would be hard to watch, but I feel like a lot of people don't read. Not the people listening to this, but you know.
[29:57]Well, I think we need. I think we need.
[30:00]use all mechanisms of storytelling.
[30:02]I think the way that we are is,
[30:03]what are we as a species?
[30:05]What are we as like an animal?
[30:06]We're storytellers.
[30:07]And it was verbal before it was written.
[30:10]It was, you know, and now we have all these different
[30:12]mechanisms for doing it.
[30:14]Absolutely.
[30:15]Because it's not, it's not gonna be a dumpster fire, right?
[30:19]Like, there's such love and adventure.
[30:21]Like, you know, I got to live in a church.
[30:24]And I remember watching Harry Potter
[30:26]when he went to live at Hogwarts.
[30:28]And like how, you know, cold and ethereal it all was.
[30:32]And I immediately thought, first of all,
[30:33]he's a foster kid, kinship foster care.
[30:35]I was like, yeah, foster kids.
[30:36]But I also thought, gosh, I know what it's like
[30:38]to live in these big, drafty buildings with nooks and crannies
[30:41]that are just bizarre.
[30:42]And, you know, I think there's adventures in joy.
[30:45]You know, we talk about joy, not just trauma and violence.
[30:48]I had the most amazing foster parents, Holly and Steve.
[30:52]Like, there is so much love.
[30:55]And who doesn't want to watch a movie about love?
[30:57]Like, I think there's big feels in this.
[30:59]So I'm hoping it does become something.
[31:01]And I'm trying, you know, I've talked to a few folks
[31:04]who are like, oh, no one wants to read a book about child abuse.
[31:06]I'm like, this is not a book about child abuse.
[31:08]Is a book about hope, is a book about love
[31:10]and the imperfect country we are and people
[31:14]and how we try and be better at it.
[31:15]So I'm hoping I'm working on it.
[31:18]Maybe someone listening wants to make a movie.
[31:21]Call me.
[31:23]If you'd like to work with you.
[31:25]So you, the part about your mother
[31:28]converting you to Judaism and the way in which to do that.
[31:31]Are you Jewish now?
[31:33]Do you identify as Jewish?
[31:34]Just wondering.
[31:36]Yeah, you know, I am ethnically Jewish.
[31:39]I learned that through doing a DNA test,
[31:41]but I am religious.
[31:43]I just don't think anyone's cornered the market on God.
[31:46]My philosophy and religious belief is that God wants us
[31:49]to be good to each other in the planet.
[31:51]And that's the altar where I worship.
[31:54]And I enjoy the traditions and faiths.
[31:56]Not only was I converted to Judaism,
[31:59]most of the foster homes I was in with one exception,
[32:01]maybe to convert me to their religion.
[32:04]So I would just kind of like constantly cycle through.
[32:07]And I kind of joke and sometimes when I speak to church groups
[32:10]and I like to say I met God through food.
[32:13]And this is what I mean by that.
[32:14]I used to go to religious institutions.
[32:16]They had free food and you'd have to get a little
[32:18]proselytized, which was fine by me.
[32:21]But then they would feed you.
[32:23]And it was really good food sometimes.
[32:26]And sometimes it was not.
[32:27]And now I'm homeless and starving.
[32:29]So I like to eat the food,
[32:30]but I used to think when I was young,
[32:32]I was like, clearly this religion and God
[32:35]are not getting along because their food is so awful.
[32:38]And God would not let them have terrible food.
[32:41]And then I discovered black baptists
[32:44]who had delicious food.
[32:47]And I thought, oh gosh, these people are in touch with their God.
[32:50]And then I went to a Unitarian church.
[32:53]And it was the first time I had Indian food,
[32:56]Unitarian Universalist.
[32:58]And it was like chef's kiss, flavor and complexity.
[33:03]And I'm today I'm a vegetarian, I wasn't then,
[33:06]but I sort of am then neatly a vegetarian.
[33:09]I just don't like animal cruelty.
[33:11]And I had never had flavor like that before.
[33:15]And I don't know how old I was,
[33:16]because I don't know how old I was for much of my life.
[33:19]But I was like, these people have a direct line to God
[33:25]by going through foster care.
[33:27]You know, they would convert me.
[33:28]And it was not as traumatic as the one in the book,
[33:30]but it just taught me that people that preach the loudest
[33:33]are often the least living up to the values
[33:36]they purport to stand for.
[33:38]So I try to live my life according to my values.
[33:40]I don't try and convert anybody.
[33:42]I try to live a meaningful life of I enjoy my life.
[33:46]But like the part that I enjoy most
[33:48]is when I'm doing these things.
[33:49]And that's why I wrote the book, you know,
[33:50]how can I use my story to,
[33:53]I liked it.
[33:54]It's so funny, because I cyber stock to you
[33:56]before I knew we had a connection.
[33:58]Because when I was thinking about, yeah,
[34:00]because they're like, you have to reach moms.
[34:02]And I'm like, you're like, because the more I talk
[34:07]to folks throughout my life, before the book,
[34:09]they're like, you need just an army of moms behind you
[34:11]because this is like your demo, like these are the,
[34:14]and the more I've talked to people around the country,
[34:17]the more I'm like, yes, I do.
[34:18]Because I think moms are just inherently more empathetic
[34:22]because you have to be, you know,
[34:24]I have a foster son, my foster son.
[34:26]Oh, he's old.
[34:28]I mean, he graduated costume.
[34:30]Oh my gosh.
[34:31]Right, he's in grad school.
[34:32]Yeah, he came over, but, you know,
[34:36]bringing, having, he changed me.
[34:39]You know, he changed me.
[34:41]He made me a different human.
[34:43]Much more wear, painful love.
[34:45]Like I just, he's the most important thing I've ever done
[34:48]and opened up my heart, opened up hearts
[34:50]and hearted even or closed.
[34:52]And so I think that feeling that we have his parents
[34:55]is so profound.
[34:57]And that's why I hope this thing lights the fire.
[35:00]We can do this, we can change, we can love,
[35:02]we can share the love that we have for our own family
[35:04]with the community.
[35:06]We have community, it's called a country.
[35:08]Like we can do this in our cities and our towns,
[35:10]we can change it.
[35:11]Do you know, I learned a fact of a day,
[35:13]which I have to verify, but I believe it's true.
[35:16]Not a single member of the school board
[35:18]where I live as a kid in school.
[35:20]Huh.
[35:22]We have to get hyper-local.
[35:23]We have to figure out what we can do in our communities
[35:26]so that people like my son who are up in foster care
[35:29]with me as well as a different outcome.
[35:32]We can share the love we have for our own kids
[35:33]with other people and each other.
[35:36]Amazing.
[35:37]I have a bazillion more things to talk to about,
[35:38]but I don't want to go on too long
[35:40]to know and listen, so thank you for coming on.
[35:43]Thank you for sharing your story
[35:44]and for just being the beautiful human being that you are.
[35:47]It's really inspiring and amazing.
[35:50]Thank you so much.
[35:51]I really, really appreciate it.
[35:53]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[35:55]Don't have time to read books.
[35:57]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[35:59]at Zebioans and at Moms.
[36:01]Don't have time to read books.
[36:02]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[36:05]and sign up for my virtual book club
[36:06]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[36:09]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan Beck,
[36:11]Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[36:13]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[36:15]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.