Tomi Obaro, DELE WEDS DESTINY: A Novel
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[1:49]Tell me you'll borrow. Is the author of delay with destiny, a novel. Tell me is an editor
[1:55]Buzzfeed News, who currently lives in Brooklyn. She works at the Culture Desk as lead editor at
[2:01]Buzzfeed News. This is one of the several co-hosted episodes by Alicia Fernandez Miranda,
[2:08]whose own book, My What of Years, coming out from Civvy Books in February of 2023. Listen to their
[2:13]conversation here. All right. Well, I am really excited to be here with Tomia Barrow, the author
[2:20]of Deli Wedd's Destiny, which is coming out in paperback soon. It is coming out in paperback. I'm not
[2:25]sure I get when it's coming out, but it came out in June. Okay. Okay. Because I wasn't sure if they
[2:31]were timing this to that paperback release, but I watched maybe maybe not as a while away. Okay.
[2:36]Not to worry. Well, I don't care what format you buy this book in, but you should really go out
[2:41]and get this book. I loved it. And tell me, welcome to momstone. Have time to read books.
[2:46]Thank you. Thank you for having me. I will like try to contain myself from spending the whole time
[2:51]talking about all the things I loved. But like the first dozen pages, you just you just had
[2:56]everything for me. You had like a dramatic foreshadowing of events. You had a multi-generational
[3:01]story featuring Americans and immigrant Americans and their families and which is always something
[3:06]that gets me. And you had a wedding, which is like basically my favorite plot twice to read about
[3:10]anyway. So, but I'm not going to spoil this book for people. Why don't I let you start out by telling
[3:15]everybody a little bit about what this book is about? So, it's about three women who meet in
[3:22]college in Northern Nigeria and the 80s, my name is our anytime's in and I'm from me. And they are
[3:28]reuniting for the first time in almost 30 years to celebrate the wedding of Fumu's daughter,
[3:33]Destiny in Nigeria. And they haven't been together in the same place for that long. And so,
[3:39]the story sort of ping pong between two timelines, one in the 80s, on their meeting each other,
[3:46]and we're sort of seeing like how their friendship developed. And then the other timeline is set in 2015
[3:51]and Lagos for the slavish wedding. And anytime is coming to Nigeria with her daughter Remy.
[3:57]And so, I was just very interested in writing about I always loved books about friendships that
[4:02]sort of evolve over time. And then I, you know, I've been to my first year of Nigerian weddings
[4:08]and I've always thought that there were that there was a source of drama then. And then my mother
[4:13]has a similar sort of relationship. And I always say like, very, very, there's two base, but like that
[4:19]there's like friendships, you know, they haven't lived in the same country, like certainly not in
[4:24]the same state, like, you know, for decades. And so, those are all things I was interested in exploring
[4:29]in the novel. I saw that in your acknowledgements that you noted your mom and your two aunties as
[4:35]your inspiration. And I loved that that was kind of your inspiration. So, or, you know, kind of loosely
[4:41]loosely based, are they still close friends? Is that a friendship you grew up watching kind of evolve
[4:46]over time? Yeah, definitely. Like I grew up with them, you know, essentially as my aunt, some like
[4:51]their kids and my cousins. I had a book event in Atlanta where one of my aunt lives there and
[4:56]when we stayed with her and her family. So yeah, they definitely feel more like family than friends.
[5:02]And I do think it is pretty laudable that they've been able to stay in such close contact.
[5:08]I love that. I'm from a Cuban family and it's very much like everyone's your cousin. And you
[5:13]know, like who's actually your cousin who's about your cousin, everyone's just your cousin?
[5:18]That reflects you.
[5:20]Now, can you tell me a little bit about your story and how you came to writing? I did a little bit
[5:24]of Google research about you before we were recording this. And so I know you have had
[5:28]a kind of fascinating and mobile upbringing. How did you get to where you are today?
[5:33]Well, I mean, so I did I moved around a fair bit in my childhood. And I mean, I do think
[5:39]I lived in the Gambia for a while, which is like the tiniest country in West Africa.
[5:43]And I think that experience was good. I have a transistor. So we basically, there wasn't a lot
[5:49]to do. So we read a lot. And I mean, I feel like that's sort of like, you know, the origin story
[5:55]for basically every writer, you know, they're usually a child that really enjoyed meeting. And like
[6:01]if you wanted to punish them, you would take away their books, you know, like that save relationship
[6:05]to reading, which is one that I definitely had. And then I don't know what point I was also writing a
[6:11]lot to you, like we would visit family and Nigeria every summer. And I remember I'd ask like
[6:17]my aunts and uncles for notebooks and like they're all of these stories that I wrote. So I'd
[6:21]always had an interest in writing and meeting. I think at some point, I think probably in college,
[6:26]I just began, I stopped writing and I just began to get the sense that like, okay, well, you know,
[6:31]China have a career. So I chose extremely stable field of journalism, which is interesting. But I mean,
[6:39]in that experience, especially like I've been an editor at Buzzfeed News for almost seven years,
[6:44]I'm living in New York. And my manager is somebody who's also published some to a
[6:48]few novels actually in California. And I worked with like say, John's and I stood
[6:54]against her. And so people who were all involved in publishing had were in the process of publishing
[6:59]or had published books. And I began to feel a little bit more like attainable again. And so I
[7:04]would say that maybe I guess in 2018, I started writing, trying to see if I could write fiction
[7:10]again sort of, you know, taking it more seriously as I had it. And I wrote a whole novel that
[7:15]will never see the light of day, but it was good in terms of teaching me that I could actually write
[7:20]something that was like 70,000 or 75,000 words. And then it wasn't, I started writing this novel in the
[7:28]summer of 2019 and then I sold it in the summer of 2020. So it's been, I sometimes feel aware of
[7:36]you know, my lack of I'm a fair, like I didn't even major in English. But you know, I'm also like,
[7:41]you know, not drowning in like tons and tons of student debt. And so I mean, yeah, it's been somewhat
[7:48]over for like secure, secure path. But yeah, that is my story. Do you find it difficult to switch
[7:58]from your Buzzfeed brain to your kind of fiction writing brain given that you are working in
[8:03]words, but you're doing two very different styles, two very different things?
[8:07]Yeah. I mean, I think that that is something that helped a lot. Actually, it was not well,
[8:12]one being an editor, so I'm not writing that much. It just feels like you're exercising a different
[8:16]part of your, of your brain essentially. And then with writing, it just, yeah, it's just completely
[8:22]different. And I think if I had been a staff writer, I think that would have been harder. I do,
[8:27]I mean, definitely like in the writing process, I think sometimes I realize that I would have
[8:32]a tendency to over edit early on. Like with early drafts, I think it was just, and in some ways,
[8:37]there was almost like a procrastination technique. Like if I just like edit the same sentence,
[8:40]like a million times, but the next sentence. So I think that was something that I had to sort of
[8:47]learn to like just accept the fact that whatever I write won't be amazing for a while. But on the
[8:52]whole, I think definitely having, but balancing between those two polls, like I've editing in my
[8:59]data, I've been writing, you know, for fun. I think it was good and helpful. I'm like really
[9:05]curious what your first novel was about the first thing that you wrote in that you put away.
[9:09]It's funny. It was the exact same title and similarly the title cactus. Well, no, one of the
[9:14]title cactus is more important in that novel. But I mean, it was, I think the main issue was that
[9:21]there were still certain things like there's also, it's also a book that starts in an
[9:25]airport and like, there's a wedding. I think I just didn't quite know what I wanted the cactus
[9:30]to do yet. And I wasn't particularly, it, it heard more closely to like my point of view as like a
[9:37]Nigerian American. And I think I was less interested or like the thing that gravitated me towards
[9:44]writing this book was, you know, having to sort of take that photo confidence and like, okay,
[9:49]I'm going to inhabit the point of view of women in their 50s who have grown up in Nigeria. And
[9:54]I have neither of those things. And so that's what made writing it like a little bit scary.
[10:00]but then I was also kind of exciting.
[10:01]And yeah, I mean, it was again,
[10:04]good lessons learned on the press.
[10:08]Needed to do it to get to where you were.
[10:10]But I think actually one of the things
[10:11]that you do so beautifully in this book is you take us
[10:15]to these different places.
[10:16]And it reminded me of when I was little
[10:18]and I did not travel a lot until I was an adult really.
[10:21]And so books were how I learned about other places,
[10:24]other cultures outside of where I grew up,
[10:26]which was Miami was very multicultural anyway,
[10:28]but lots of other places that I had never been to.
[10:31]What was it like for you constructing the different locales
[10:34]where the books were the book took place?
[10:36]So the university and then in Lagos for the wedding,
[10:40]what was your kind of process for doing that?
[10:42]I mean, I think it felt somewhat organic.
[10:44]I sort of had the sense,
[10:46]like even when I was writing like the blog
[10:48]and like the first chapter
[10:49]that it would move around in time a bit.
[10:51]And so it was sort of a combination of relying
[10:54]a bit on memory.
[10:55]Like the experience of like sitting like that traffic
[10:57]and I went for it, I guess at that point,
[10:59]or very like very, you know,
[11:02]visceral childhood memories that I have.
[11:04]And then for the university scenes
[11:05]that required it a little bit more,
[11:07]like doing a little bit of research, not too much,
[11:10]but like there are a few incidents in the novel
[11:12]that refer to like violence that went
[11:14]and at the time that are based on two events.
[11:17]And so that wasn't just saying in a different way.
[11:19]I mean, it felt like, you know,
[11:20]I was learning something even as I was writing it.
[11:23]And then also I like read a few books
[11:26]and then would also like watch like YouTube videos
[11:29]that people had posted of like their dorms
[11:31]or like just are like hiking,
[11:34]you know, like confined to hell
[11:36]and all these sorts of things.
[11:37]So it was like a combination of like memory,
[11:41]a little bit of research,
[11:42]a little bit of imagination.
[11:44]And that was sort of how it worked.
[11:45]It was, you definitely took us there.
[11:47]And I also loved everything about the wedding.
[11:51]And I saw on your Instagram
[11:54]that you went to a fake wedding the other day.
[11:56]You just tell me a little bit more about that
[11:58]because I sort of love that
[12:00]and feel like I would like to somehow make fake weddings
[12:03]apart of my life.
[12:04]Yeah, it was very interesting.
[12:06]And it's sort of like for two days
[12:08]that like the event was happening around
[12:10]like when my book was coming out,
[12:12]so I could write about it as like promo or whatever.
[12:14]But yeah, there's this group of young,
[12:16]Nigerian, American guys who call themselves
[12:19]a vibes and chips crew.
[12:21]And during the pandemic,
[12:22]I think like in like the summer of 2021,
[12:25]one of them who's like 22 was like,
[12:27]oh, I miss going into a wedding.
[12:28]Like what if we saw a fake wedding?
[12:31]And so they did.
[12:32]And like the bride and groom didn't know each other.
[12:34]He played the groom.
[12:35]He like DMs someone to ask if she would like
[12:38]play the bride and they had like a fake pastor.
[12:42]And for that wedding it was like a Western wedding.
[12:44]So she didn't wear a white,
[12:46]but she wore like this gold dress.
[12:47]And then I like had a party.
[12:49]So I think he paid like maybe 20 or 50 bucks
[12:53]for like open bar, Nigerian food,
[12:56]and then they had a DJ.
[12:57]And then the next weddings have just become progressively
[13:00]more and more sort of immersed in various ethnic groups
[13:03]and traditions.
[13:04]So like the second wedding was like a girl,
[13:06]but one thing, the other wedding was like an evil wedding.
[13:08]The one I went to was like a nay and a jeering in.
[13:11]And it was like all of these like Gen Z,
[13:14]zoomers, who like had barely heard of like,
[13:17]I felt so like, you know, like the millennial crims.
[13:20]I felt so old and hip, but it was really beautiful
[13:24]to see because you know, they have like a,
[13:27]they had a live wedding band.
[13:28]So they're playing like Nigerian music
[13:31]and everybody was dancing.
[13:32]And like as somebody who where I've grown up in America,
[13:36]I haven't necessarily lived in places
[13:38]or the ton of Nigerian communities to sort of see
[13:41]like people younger than me, like really steeped
[13:43]and aware of those traditions was cool.
[13:46]But yeah, it was very, it was very weird.
[13:48]But I mean, it's interesting.
[13:50]It's like it's cool that they're doing it, you know?
[13:51]I love it.
[13:53]Maybe you write your next book about something like that.
[13:55]But I'm just like, I'm at the,
[13:56]I'm past the wedding stage of my life.
[13:58]And this year has been people's 40th.
[14:01]So there have been some big parties to get everybody together.
[14:04]And I think reminding everybody,
[14:06]especially after the pandemic, like how nice it is
[14:09]to spend time all together in a social situation,
[14:12]dancing, celebrating just like being joyful altogether.
[14:15]But now everyone's gonna be 41 scenes.
[14:17]So no one wants to do a big 41st birthday party.
[14:19]So I'm like, all right, we need to find another way
[14:22]to have really big parties because it just seems brilliant.
[14:26]And I love a wedding and you're absolutely right
[14:27]that weddings are full of drama.
[14:30]Have any of the bits and pieces that conspired
[14:33]or that happened at the wedding in the book
[14:36]taken from any real life experiences you have had?
[14:40]To a certain extent.
[14:42]I mean, I've been to like one or two pretty
[14:45]love-fish weddings.
[14:47]But like, I mean, I definitely dialed the, you know,
[14:50]dad enough a bit more.
[14:52]And that was like another thing where I kind of watched.
[14:54]And then I do, and I do have love a wedding video
[14:57]on YouTube.
[14:58]So like, they will have these like incredibly
[15:00]ornately edited like traditional wedding ceremonies.
[15:03]And I just like watched a bunch of them
[15:06]and sort of like cherry picked some of like the more
[15:09]sort of fringe worthy moments.
[15:11]Like yeah, and like I have very conflicted feelings
[15:14]about, you know, weddings in general.
[15:17]Like I think, I mean, that there's this,
[15:19]she was part of like, I'm a narcissist.
[15:22]She was like podcastists.
[15:23]And I don't think she's actually gone to it anymore.
[15:25]But I remember a long time ago she tweeted something
[15:27]like getting right is not an accomplishment.
[15:29]And I, you know, I feel similarly.
[15:31]It's like in some ways it's a miracle
[15:33]if you find someone, you know, that you get along with.
[15:36]But like the emphasis on something that you fundamentally
[15:40]don't have that much control over.
[15:41]Like finding your romantic partner.
[15:44]Like this, the emphasis that we placed on it.
[15:46]I mean, nothing I'm saying is like incredibly profound.
[15:48]Like I know other people feel similarly.
[15:51]But yeah, I was always interested in,
[15:53]and especially with Nigerian,
[15:54]with certain kinds of Nigerian weddings,
[15:56]it definitely feels more about, you know,
[15:58]showing off your wealth or like more about the parents
[16:01]than like the people actually getting married.
[16:03]And so I was interested in sort of like,
[16:05]in some ways, suddenly critiquing that
[16:07]or even just like presenting it as it is,
[16:09]it's like showing that like, you know,
[16:12]their aspects of this that are kind of unseemly, you know,
[16:15]especially in a country so much income inequality.
[16:19]And so tell us a little bit about your publishing process.
[16:22]So did you just write this?
[16:24]Everybody loved it and immediately came out.
[16:25]I wouldn't be surprised by the way if that's not
[16:26]because the book is really good.
[16:28]But what was your process?
[16:29]Kind of from, okay, you've done it,
[16:31]you finished it to getting published.
[16:33]It was pretty quick.
[16:34]And so I finished writing it in the spring of 2020.
[16:38]And then I queried a few agents and then found,
[16:43]the agent that I really wanted, P.J. and Mark,
[16:46]it was like, it was one of those rare moments
[16:48]where we got in a Zoom and I was like,
[16:49]okay, this is my agent.
[16:50]I was like, I can't have a client
[16:51]and it felt really inspired and amazing.
[16:53]And then yeah.
[16:54]And then it was, we went to market, I guess.
[16:58]So I don't know if that's a terminology.
[17:00]And it was that that aspect felt, you know,
[17:03]in hindsight, I'm realizing I was very lucky.
[17:05]Like there was a lot of interest.
[17:07]So it didn't feel,
[17:08]it was sort of like the option of having choices
[17:11]is, you know, it's really, really nice.
[17:13]So I think that aspect was pretty seamless.
[17:17]And then I think it's like,
[17:18]everything after the head has got a little bit more like,
[17:21]what's happening?
[17:22]Like, I don't, you know,
[17:24]it's like the weirdness of like the post-publication.
[17:28]I feel like it's like a malaise
[17:30]that I've been warned about or friends say,
[17:32]like, I have to publish a book.
[17:33]You're prepared to feel like a little bit weird.
[17:35]Or like, you know, you don't,
[17:36]you're emotions are necessarily a line.
[17:38]The way the interesting,
[17:40]to in what has your kind of promotion experience been like,
[17:44]and I knew you were on tour over the summer.
[17:46]Have you enjoyed it?
[17:47]Like, are you, you know,
[17:48]what is your kind of feeling
[17:50]been through that process?
[17:51]I have mixed feelings.
[17:53]I mean, I think I, I'm just in general somebody
[17:57]who doesn't, a self promotion isn't something
[17:59]that comes naturally to me.
[18:01]And so it always feels a bit like I'm like lying
[18:05]or like, I'm like, there's a part of me
[18:07]that isn't an alignment.
[18:09]And so it can feel very like disorienting.
[18:12]But I mean, it has also been really, really nice.
[18:15]I mean, I think just mainly in terms of just like,
[18:18]the people from my life who have reached out
[18:22]and like who came to events,
[18:24]like some people who are hadn't spoken to you in ages
[18:26]or really supportive.
[18:28]And I think like that aspect has been really good.
[18:31]And then I also just like, you know,
[18:32]it still feels really feeling to like go to a bookstore
[18:36]and like see my book and like, you know,
[18:38]go to the airport and like my book is at the airport store.
[18:42]And like, that is really cool.
[18:44]I think everything else feels,
[18:47]I mean, it's like, I was in foot.
[18:49]It's like, I think more than anything
[18:51]has just been surprised in the emotional
[18:52]and like not one of like an alloyed on a vast joy
[18:56]all the time.
[18:57]Yeah, fair enough.
[18:58]That's good, good warning.
[18:59]I'll look out for my post-pub plays on my book.
[19:02]Oh, are you still a really avid reader?
[19:05]Are you reading anything at the moment that you are loving?
[19:08]I feel like I haven't been able to read as much as I would like.
[19:12]But I did finish reading if I survive you
[19:16]short story collection by Jonathan Escoffery
[19:18]that I feel like was getting a lot of buzz.
[19:20]And it is really good.
[19:21]I have it in my TBR.
[19:23]I cannot wait to read it.
[19:24]Yeah, it's a really astute right there.
[19:26]I mean, it's pretty, I feel like the stories are pretty
[19:28]like unrelenting.
[19:30]But like the way his style is very interesting.
[19:33]And I think I am also just like the certain book
[19:35]any book about like an immigrant family living in America.
[19:39]Like that's like extremely much.
[19:41]I know, take, take the same boy.
[19:44]I am a preferential to a happy ending.
[19:45]Those two things do not always align.
[19:49]Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't say that she is a little ambiguous.
[19:54]But I did really enjoy that.
[19:55]And then I'm going, I'm actually going to a wedding
[19:58]like in a few hours in Canada.
[20:00]So I have books lined up and I can do almost a real wedding, not a fake wedding, a real wedding,
[20:06]a real wedding, a real wedding. Oh, it's fun. And so what's next for you in terms of your writing?
[20:13]I don't know. I mean, I feel like I had all these, like, I was actually, I was working on something
[20:19]in the beginning of the pandemic. And I probably need to go back to it. I think, you know,
[20:26]I sort of put things on hiatus in terms of book promotion. And I'm also so many who like
[20:32]try to align with the seasons. And so like in the summer, it's very hard to be motivated to do
[20:37]anything indoors. Now that things are cooling down, I expect I'll go back to that draft and kind of
[20:44]thoughts with it a bit. But I mean, the plan is to keep writing fiction. Maybe not fiction at
[20:49]some point, but I definitely want to keep writing. Would you dig back into this world at all? Do you
[20:53]you sequel or a prequel or take one of the characters and kind of explore a different direction?
[20:59]Maybe. She says with a lot of self-interest. I'm like, I'm ready for this equal.
[21:04]I'll take that. I'll take that. My podcast that I host on Zibi's network is called
[21:08]quit your day job. So I have to ask you if you weren't writing and editing, what else would you
[21:13]be doing with your life? I think I would honestly be chilling. Like, I don't, I'm very much in
[21:20]alignment with, you know, those viral TikToks that say, I don't dream of flavor. So I would be
[21:27]maybe traveling, but I actually don't like traveling too much. Like nothing too intense. But like,
[21:32]I mean, there are certain other countries in Africa like to visit hanging out with friends,
[21:37]they're going to the beach. It just very, that sounds great. Yeah, very legally acting for
[21:42]you. Excellent. It is nothing too intense. Much had to optimize anything. I would just feel like
[21:48]relaxing. Sounds fantastic. Do you think you don't like traveling because you moved around so
[21:52]much as a kid? Definitely. I think that's part of it. Yeah. I think that's probably part of it.
[21:58]I have this theory with my husband who does not love to travel as much as I do and that he
[22:02]also grew up kind of third culture kid moving around a lot. And he loves nothing more than staying
[22:06]home. And I'm always like, when's the next trip? What are we doing next? And I've now decided that
[22:10]I think this is because of our very different upbringings. I was sitting at home reading a lot of
[22:15]books on Dreaming of Travel. And he was actually traveling and probably not reading that many
[22:19]books to be honest. But he's reading more now. Tell me, what advice would you give to aspiring
[22:25]writers who are listening to this podcast? I mean, I think this is somewhat cliched. But I think it
[22:31]is true is that you just have to write. You know, you just have to do it. And I think there was a
[22:36]time, sorry, this is my partner's cat. I don't know if you hear it, but no, but it's welcome to join
[22:43]if it wants to come in me out. But I do think there was definitely a period where I thought that I
[22:49]needed somebody to kind of give me permission to write fiction or like I had all of these internal
[22:55]reservations that were preventing me from actually just sitting down and doing the hard work of
[23:00]just writing. And like I think, I think you just have to write. And that's the only way to see
[23:05]that if you have something there. And like I'm talking to myself as much as anyone else right now
[23:11]because I'm also like, okay, if I want to write another book, I'm just like all of these
[23:15]ideas about like what I wanted to look like. And at some point, I just have to like sit down and write
[23:19]it great. And where can listeners find more about you, more information, you on social
[23:25]or you do have a website, where can they kind of learn more about you and you're upcoming?
[23:29]Yeah. I mean, I'm on, I have a website told me abroad.com, but I'm very relaxing on Twitter, but I'm not
[23:35]not that interesting. I don't know. Don't follow you on Twitter. Okay. Yeah. And then similarly
[23:41]with, and I'm very like relaxing social media person, but I do exist. I am on both Instagram and
[23:47]Twitter. So I think if, yeah, for recent updates, those places are fine. I also have my own domain,
[23:54]which I update in frequently. But yeah, you can find me there. I live in Brooklyn. So we're gonna
[23:59]maybe we'll see to have it. Maybe around Brooklyn, maybe at any pay for admission ticket, Nigerian
[24:05]weddings. People might go to this by you there as well. Oh, well, it's been amazing to talk to you.
[24:12]Thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me.
[24:18]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms. Don't have time to read books. Don't forget to
[24:22]follow me on Instagram at zibbowens and at moms. Don't have time to read books. Also, sign
[24:27]up for my newsletter at zibbowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors
[24:32]on zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan. Heck, texture sound for the sound
[24:37]editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[24:41]now trim music.