Lisa Unger, SECLUDED CABIN SLEEPS SIX: A Novel of Thrilling Suspense
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now
[0:07]Thank you so much. Called moms. Don't have time to read books
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[0:54]Lisa Unger is the New York Times and internationally best-selling author of 20 novels
[1:02]Including her most recent secluded cabin sleep six last girl ghosted and confessions on the 745 now in development at Netflix
[1:11]Staring Jessica Alba
[1:12]With books published in 32 languages and millions of copies sold worldwide
[1:16]She is regarded as a master of suspense
[1:19]Unger's critically acclaimed novels have been featured on best book lists from the today show
[1:23]Good morning America Entertainment Weekly people Amazon Goodreads LA Times the Boston Globe
[1:28]Sun Sentinel Tampa Bay Times and many others
[1:31]She has been nominated for or has won numerous awards including the Strand critics
[1:36]Audi, Hammond, the cavity, ITW thriller, and Goodreads choice in 2019
[1:41]She received two Edgar Award nominations and honored by only a few authors including Agatha Christie
[1:47]Her short fiction has been anthologized in the best American mystery and suspense and her nonfiction has appeared in the New York Times
[1:53]Wall Street Journal NPR and Travel and Leisure
[1:56]Lisa is currently co-president of the International Thriller writers organization
[2:01]She lives on the West Coast of Florida with her family
[2:03]Welcome Lisa. Thank you so much for coming back
[2:06]For coming back. I'm laughing because Lisa just held up the copy of my book for coming back on mom's don't have time to read books now to talk about secluded cabin sleep six
[2:16]Hi, Sivie
[2:18]You're amazing. I'm kind of daily blown away by you. You know like just in every sort of you know social media
[2:26]Platform where I see you and follow you. You're just kind of this amazing powerhouse of of energy and love for books
[2:34]It's kind of it's moving actually. It's really it's and your book book ends is like this
[2:39]You know is a real love letter to your life as a as a reader and also as a creator and like
[2:45]Kind of this book maven and it's such a beautiful journey that that you've been on with books like starting from
[2:51]You know your moment with Charlotte's web in the bathroom. Look I read that really that really got me because that was
[2:58]You know one of my first loves as a as a kid as well probably everybody, right?
[3:03]So I just really appreciate you and everything that you do. Oh
[3:07]Thank you. That's so sweet Lisa. That's just totally made my day. So
[3:11]Thank you for that. I'm not telling you that every day because they really sure
[3:15]I mean, it's always nice to hear
[3:18]Particularly when I think I'm interviewing somebody else
[3:24]No, it's fine. It's fine. Well, I mean books are so I mean I do love books so much
[3:30]I I get so excited and I can't imagine like a life without books honestly
[3:35]I mean, it's like a parallel narrative that I've been living do you feel I mean I think I feel the same way
[3:41]I feel that you know, I mean it's it's just such a I mean your life as a reader is so rich
[3:46]I mean, I'm you know, I don't remember a time of my life before I
[3:52]Define myself as a a reader and then as a writer
[3:55]You know, my mom is a librarian. I think we discussed that and you know
[4:00]She had this great love of story, you know always not just books but also television and film and theater
[4:08]You know, and it was like her big passion and my dad on the other hands like an engineer
[4:13]You know nonfiction doesn't want to
[4:16]The movie so like I just became her kind of companion and all that stuff
[4:21]And I think it really I mean I know that it that it formed me, you know this kind of love of story and then like
[4:28]Like watching my daughter have that same experience
[4:32]Like having her read books that you know
[4:35]Move to me like she's reading the handmaids tail or even something like
[4:39]Like the island of the blue dolphins and all these things that like had such you know meaning and impact
[4:45]You know, it's just a continuum right of like love for for story
[4:49]And it does it in riches our lives and just all kinds of ways
[4:54]Totally true. I haven't actually had that experience where one of my kids has read one of my favorite books and we could like talk about it
[5:01]I don't know. Yeah. Oh, it's really trippy is now. She's reading my books
[5:06]So
[5:09]What is she that what what stage does she read your books? She just started because you know it was funny
[5:14]I was just like she didn't really ask for a lot. She's 16 now
[5:18]So she didn't really ask for a long time and then she kind of was like well
[5:21]What do I need to read your books? And I kind of had to think about that, you know
[5:24]Because they're dark, you know like and I have you know
[5:27]I'm the kind of mom's like when I'm reading aloud from Harry Potter
[5:31]You know to her when she was little and the books do get dark like I was just like editing like burply editing
[5:38]I was reading so like at my parents never since or my reading or my television viewing or anything like that
[5:44]But I you know very much so did that with her and so I was like well, I don't know
[5:49]I'm like let me think about it and then it's she's like mom all my friends are reading your books
[5:55]Like okay fine, so then
[6:01]So then I just let her start reading and just the conversations that I have with her are so fascinating
[6:07]You know the way she experiences my characters and then like the things that you know
[6:11]She said the other day, you know, like she just started reading secluded cabins sleep effects
[6:15]And she was like I just you know, there's so much in there that
[6:19]You know is from us is from our life and like I hear your voice and
[6:25]I found that kind of living because I feel like you know
[6:27]She has these you know, she has these pieces of me
[6:31]That she'll she'll always have and you know like I think that there's something about that
[6:36]That's moving about that that I didn't I didn't expect
[6:40]Interesting. Yeah, I do feel like
[6:43]If you are able to write whether it's a book like this that you have out now or just
[6:48]Diary scratches or something. Yeah, either at the at the end of the day. They're what we leave behind
[6:55]So right not not it's not our clothes or you know the spray slit or something
[7:01]But it's the words written or by the people that I've loved that I
[7:06]Cling to like talismans
[7:08]Yeah, it's the story, you know
[7:10]The stories that we tell of our lives are the things that we pass down like that's our truth
[7:14]You know, you said something in your memoir like at the beginning you were like well
[7:17]This is how I remember it
[7:18]I mean, you maybe you were there
[7:20]And you remember it differently
[7:22]But this is the life that I have held right like this is the life that I have held and that I am giving to you in this way
[7:28]And I think that there's something so important about that because you know life
[7:33]If you you could have this experience with you know
[7:36]Your siblings or other people in your family and everybody's going to walk away with it carrying a different story
[7:42]a different version of that moment
[7:44]And you know yours is important whatever it is whether somebody comes like it didn't happen that way or I didn't feel that way about it
[7:50]Like okay, that's you
[7:52]But this was my fit this was my piece to bring forward and I think it's so valuable if you can
[7:57]Put that down and you know have it for you know you whoever wants to eat it later
[8:03]Your child your grandchild their child
[8:07]You know, and it's just a it's a greater legacy than anything that you could ever ever leave
[8:12]Meanwhile, I can't get even my mom to listen to my podcast
[8:16]Mom doesn't have to listen to your podcast
[8:19]I'm kidding
[8:22]My books
[8:25]I mean she does sometimes I shouldn't say that, but it's like I put out all this content all the time
[8:29]And I'm like anyone that I know actually whatever did you
[8:33]Listen. Oh, okay. You were busy now. I get it. Totally. Wait. So what what do you think your daughter found that was?
[8:42]You and secluded Kevin sleep sex like what do you think I'm not really I'm not really sure because I asked her to
[8:49]To say I asked her specifically what was it that you know
[8:52]We usually after she finishes we sit down and have like kind of a long talk about it and I asked her specifically
[8:58]What is it that you that that you felt?
[9:02]You know resonated with you about me and she was like I don't know. I mean typical 16 year old
[9:08]I was like okay, well think about it and let's you know
[9:11]Let's talk about it later or whatever
[9:12]So when I when I have that deep conversation about
[9:15]You to cat and sleep sex. I'll hit you back
[9:18]Maybe conversation to be continued. Yeah, to be continued. We could like patch her in. You know exactly be like so ocean
[9:28]Why don't you talk about where you came up with the idea for secluded Kevin secluded
[9:34]Kevin sleep sex and what it's about for people who are you know in the mood for one of your new books
[9:40]Yeah, so usually there's like one germ
[9:43]But in this case there was a couple of things that that led me to start
[9:47]Hearing the voice of Hannah, which is really the major voice that that led me through the story
[9:52]Although Henry was a really big part of it as well for me and he we so it was a it was an ongoing session that I had
[10:00]have with DNA testing. I have stopping short of actually testing my own DNA. So that's
[10:06]another, that's another part of the story. It's another podcast actually. But I, you know,
[10:14]I've been really obsessed with the idea of this and the industry surrounding it and, you
[10:19]know, how the information is being used or how it could be used and how it ties into some
[10:24]kind of dark historical things that make me, you know, a little bit uncomfortable. And, you
[10:30]know, just all the various layers of it. So much in like, you know, much the way last
[10:34]girl posted was, you know, online dating and, you know, Confessions on the 745 had a lot to do
[10:41]with social media. I'm interested in these technologies, but not in the technologies themselves.
[10:46]I'm interested in how they're rewriting the way we relate to each other. And especially
[10:52]indeed in a testing, I'm interested in these themes that kind of run through most of my work,
[10:56]which is like, you know, what makes us who we are. You know, is it biology? Is it experience?
[11:02]Is it nature versus nurture? Is it all these arguments, these historical arguments and questions
[11:07]that exist? What is it really? So that's kind of the journey on that piece of it. And then,
[11:13]you know, during the pandemic, my husband and my daughter and I, we would just, you know, drive
[11:18]from Florida and rent cabins in places like North Carolina and Georgia. And we rent these,
[11:25]like, secluded cabins in the woods. And they were beautiful, beautifully appointed, very comfortable,
[11:30]lots of fun hiking, you know, all kinds of great, you know, sort of socially distanced stuff that
[11:37]we could do at a time. But, you know, like, it's very difficult for me to go on vacation. Like,
[11:41]I kept my brain never stopped. Like, it never stops working, right? So I was like, you know, I was in
[11:47]this beautiful cabin. I was thinking to myself, you know, I'm just curious about that door code,
[11:51]you know, like, does everybody get the same code or is it a different, it's a different code for
[11:57]every person. And then I was like, you know, sitting outside enjoying like the beautiful outdoor
[12:03]fireplace and like some strange man comes driving up on a gator. And he's like, got this long gray
[12:09]hair baseball cap. And he's like, I check in on the, I check in on the property for the owners
[12:14]from time to time. I was like, Oh, do you? Wow, great. So there was that. So there was that whole piece.
[12:24]And, you know, just kind of the way, you know, the isolation, the quiet and the, there, again,
[12:29]too, another big thing that runs through a lot of the books is like this nature theme, right? Like,
[12:33]the imperviousness of nature. Like, it just kind of stands witness to all the folly that we participate
[12:40]in as people did the bad and the ugly, right? So like, there was that kind of piece that kind
[12:45]that came into it. So when you first open secluded cabin sleep sex year out of Christmas gathering
[12:52]with Hannah and her family and a secret Santa delivers a mysterious package. Everybody opens it
[12:58]when they open it. It's a, it's a DNA testing kit. Nobody in the family has any idea where it
[13:03]came from and everybody has a different reaction to the gift. And then, you know, fast forward
[13:10]a few months, Hannah and her brother Mako, their spouses, their family friend and her mysterious
[13:16]new boyfriend are all headed out to secluded cabin. In the woods, luxury cabin for so much needed
[13:26]RNR, a big disconnect from the very hectic, like sort of technology-addled modern life that they're
[13:33]experiencing. And Hannah is the first time away from her child. So there's a lot of tension there
[13:38]for her. And they are hauling with them all kinds of baggage in the form of secrets and lies.
[13:48]And there's a mysterious guest who is lingering sort of outside in the periphery. And this
[13:55]stranger is running a dark agenda of revenge. And there's a storm brewing. And of course,
[14:03]you know, cellphone services, body. And, you know, what could go wrong?
[14:12]Well, it's going to be fine, really.
[14:16]You know, one of my takeaways from this book was to always hide a secret extra gift.
[14:23]You know, that's such a good idea anyway. Like after they finish, after the kids finish opening
[14:29]everything, just being like, actually, there's more. You know, it's that moment. And Hannah talks
[14:36]about it. It's like, there's that moment after the, I mean, every mom knows, right? Every parent
[14:41]knows like the crush of like the holiday season, right? And like all the effort that we pour
[14:47]into it and everything. And it's like, you know, the big meals, the gatherings, the gifts,
[14:52]all of it, right? You know, if you're fortunate and blessed in that way. And then there's a moment
[14:58]where, and usually it's pretty early on Christmas day or whatever holiday you're celebrating,
[15:04]it's usually pretty early on that day when you're like, okay, wow, like that is that now
[15:09]it's over, right? So like to prolong that like moment, like to have the one more thing that's hidden,
[15:14]I think is a, is a good, is a good, a good plan for everyone. It's sort of like cooking. It's like,
[15:20]it takes so long to do everything. And then you eat it in like two seconds. And then you just have
[15:26]to clean it up. Yeah. Right? Everybody's standing behind eating dishes for the next hour. Yeah.
[15:33]You're like, oh, no, but that like 10 minutes. That was great. That was great. That was so good.
[15:37]The training was a little dry, but you know, it's good. I actually, I found it really interesting
[15:44]the way you wrote about all of the different relationships. There are a lot of different
[15:47]contingents here and siblings and like all of it's such a, you know, those relationships can be
[15:54]very fraught, especially as siblings change over time and bring in new people. And I just
[16:00]loved how you wove that all together and really examine that a little bit more, especially before
[16:05]the holidays are upon us. Yeah. I mean, and I think that that's something that, you know,
[16:09]I tend to do, you know, I feel like there's this vision of the family, right? Like there's this idea
[16:15]that we're kind of sold, right? Like there's the table of, you know, the gathering of all your
[16:21]relatives and it's all like joy and laughter and support and all of that. It's kind of, it's a
[16:27]time to have a fallacy. I mean, I don't know any, I don't know any families like that. And it's just
[16:32]sort of like there's always this subterranean life to every family, the way, you know, the way
[16:38]relationships twist around each other and the way, you know, when you bring a new, you bring the
[16:43]new spouse in to the mix, how all of a sudden, you know, his or her perspective on your family,
[16:50]you know, makes you see things that you did not see before, you know, which is the case a little
[16:54]bit with Bruce and Hannah. You know, there's so much dysfunction that we kind of take for granted
[17:00]in our families because we just didn't know any better. We didn't. We thought this everybody's
[17:05]family was like this. And so when you bring that other person in and all of a sudden that person
[17:11]whoa, wait a minute, like no, this is not how we're moving forward. And it creates this really
[17:17]interesting conflict. And it either solidifies the, you know, the spousal relationship. And as a
[17:26]consequence, the extended family or the family of origin relationship has to take a step back or it
[17:34]breaks up the marriage. And so it's just kind of, I find that I find those kinds of dynamics to be
[17:41]very interesting. Also, just the idea that, you know, you have your family of origin,
[17:48]you think of your parents and your aunts and your uncles and your cousins and all of that like
[17:53]as this very like, you know, solid and known unit of people, right? But like you then you
[18:00]need somebody and you're not biologically related to that person. You fall in love with that person.
[18:05]You form up on and then you start creating, you know, your own children together. And then you
[18:11]are the family of origin. And your child looks to you as this solidified thing that always was,
[18:17]right? And without ever thinking like, well, why did you choose this person or what was your
[18:22]experience or whatever? And it's like that choice. You choose these people to be part of your life.
[18:27]your friends, your spouse, you choose people to be part of your life. And then they become
[18:32]as important as influential as the biological relationships that you have as a child.
[18:38]My version of your, you know, catastrophizing every time you're in a cabin
[18:43]situation is like setting up these impossible predicaments in my head like just what you're saying.
[18:50]Like, okay, what if my brother and my husband were both nominated for an Academy Award at the
[18:56]same time? You know, and then I like go down this whole time. Where would I sit? Would they
[19:01]both want me to come like, who would I root for? How could I root for them both at the same time?
[19:05]Like would someone get mad at me? And I mean, it's like a complete use, useless freedom.
[19:11]Yeah. But we do that. I mean, of course we do. You know, we all do that. Like that's the
[19:16]that's the way the brain works, right? Like you can bring yourself into presence like, you know,
[19:21]with meditation in your breath. But basically you're always time traveling. You're either in the past,
[19:26]you know, ruminating on things that happen or your future worrying about, you know,
[19:31]what will never happen? You're tripping, creating bizarre scenarios that will never come to pass
[19:39]probably. And, you know, and I always think that like this is such an interesting like sort of
[19:45]revelation I had about the pandemic, you know, like when that first happened and there's like such
[19:51]this moment of like, oh my god, like this thing is happening. And it is unbelievably scary.
[19:56]And I was thinking to myself, okay, so in December.
[20:00]from 2019 of all the things that I worried about, about it.
[20:05]Yeah, I forgot this for a global pandemic.
[20:08]Never once entered my mind.
[20:11]Like the fate of the, the fate of the planet in the world,
[20:13]like it never once kind of was like,
[20:16]oh yeah, I'm really, I mean,
[20:17]we all worry about our various, you know, global things,
[20:20]but like that was definitely not one of them.
[20:22]Like so I was just like reminded that my powers
[20:25]and prediction are absolutely at this wall,
[20:28]like terrible, right?
[20:30]So I just try to comfort myself with that whenever I'm
[20:32]like future-chipping.
[20:33]It's like, okay, this, yeah, this horrible thing could happen,
[20:36]but this wonderful thing could happen too.
[20:38]You know, and you can kind of balance yourself out that way,
[20:40]but that's true, or you just write it,
[20:42]or you just write a book about it.
[20:44]Or you just, yeah, lies it all onto the page.
[20:46]So that's usually how I manage it.
[20:48]I do feel that once I've worried about it,
[20:50]I can stop worrying about it.
[20:51]Yeah, I mean, like, okay, I've worried about that.
[20:54]Now I can move on, and then if it doesn't happen,
[20:56]I'm always so pleasantly surprised.
[20:58]Like my husband thinks I'm a pessimist,
[21:00]but I'm like, it's not really pessimism.
[21:02]I hope for the best, I really do.
[21:04]It's just I'm prepared for the worst
[21:06]and always pleasantly surprised
[21:07]if the worst doesn't happen.
[21:08]Yeah, I agree.
[21:10]I'm with you on that.
[21:11]Yeah, it's a nice way to live.
[21:13]How long do I take you to write this book?
[21:15]A first draft of a novel usually takes about nine months
[21:18]to nine to 12 months, and this is about that for me, you know?
[21:22]And so what is coming next?
[21:24]What comes next is I can't really talk about it yet.
[21:27]I'm not ready to talk about it
[21:29]because it's kind of how it works for me.
[21:30]Like, I just finished up revisions on the next book.
[21:35]And I'm just now starting to get a sense of what I wrote,
[21:40]right?
[21:41]I'm just now starting to like, just now I'm just today.
[21:44]Like this week, ready to talk about secluded cabins,
[21:47]sleep sex.
[21:48]I'm just ready to say, okay, this is what I wrote,
[21:51]and this is what it meant to me,
[21:52]and this is, you know, these are the layers of it and whatnot.
[21:54]And, but it takes that, it takes that year for me to kind of
[21:59]reflect and write something else and have the distance from
[22:03]the next book before I'm ready to talk about.
[22:05]And also it's like, you know,
[22:07]I just have this thing about never, you know,
[22:10]never talking about the book until it's completely done
[22:13]because I feel like it drains, it drains the energy from it.
[22:17]Okay, I won't say a word.
[22:19]It'll be a psychological thriller.
[22:22]You bad things will happen.
[22:24]You'll be scared.
[22:25]You'll stay up late during pages, I hope.
[22:27]So that's great.
[22:28]What I can tell you, we'll see what your daughter has to say about it.
[22:35]And you just wrote a great article for us at Civi Mag.
[22:37]Thank you so much with all your book picks.
[22:39]Are there any you want to highlight?
[22:41]Thank you so much.
[22:42]I love that. Oh, yeah, I love writing that about books,
[22:46]to read in a, or not, in a city cabin.
[22:52]And there were some really interesting books on that list.
[22:55]Some of them were older, some of them were newer,
[22:56]but I'll just shout out to you Ruth Ware and Heather Goodencoff
[23:02]and Julie McMillan, who are all,
[23:04]Jillian and Heather wrote books about, you know,
[23:07]similar themes like these very isolated settings where,
[23:11]you know, people come together and, you know,
[23:14]the past and the present collide.
[23:16]Very, Heather's book about a true crime writer,
[23:19]who is, has gone to a secluded cabin to finish her,
[23:23]to finish her book, which, you know, that's pretty brave.
[23:30]But it's all these tendrils that reach into the past,
[23:33]and it's just incredibly suspenseful.
[23:35]And just a, you know, she's an excellent writer.
[23:39]And I think on, in that group,
[23:42]I had talked about the turn of the key,
[23:45]which was the Ruth Ware.
[23:46]It's not her most recent book, but I think two books ago,
[23:49]about Nanny who goes out into the Scottish Highlands too,
[23:54]an isolated mansion.
[23:56]And she's the caregiver for children who are, you know,
[24:00]basically for the minute she steps into the property,
[24:03]warning her that she should leave.
[24:05]And this is really cool juxtaposition of, like,
[24:08]a very old school, kind of a haunted house vibe,
[24:11]but, you know, the house is controlled by this system
[24:15]called Happy, and it's like a smart house.
[24:18]So there's, like, this juxtaposition of, like, the technology
[24:22]and, like, kind of the old school scary horror story.
[24:26]And Julie McMillan's book, The Long Weekend,
[24:29]was about a group of women who had gone out to a house
[24:34]in the countryside of England,
[24:35]and they're waiting for their husbands to arrive the next day.
[24:38]And when they arrive, there's a gift basket.
[24:41]And the gift basket is from her friend,
[24:43]and there's a note that says, one of your husbands have been murdered.
[24:47]And they're completely isolated that they can't reach any of their husbands,
[24:51]and it's about how these friends, all their, like, sort of interconnectedness
[24:54]with each other and their spouses, and it's, like, very layered and super fun.
[24:58]So, yeah, those are just a few,
[25:00]just a few of the books on the list.
[25:02]I don't have as high a tolerance of fear as you do, I think.
[25:06]Probably not.
[25:08]My tolerance is way lower.
[25:09]My sleep is effective intensely.
[25:12]Well, I suggest that if you do go to a secluded cabin
[25:16]for some R&R, you do not bring any of the books on my list to that cabin.
[25:21]You've already read mine, so sorry about that,
[25:24]but, you know, just guess what?
[25:26]I am not going to go to a secluded cabin.
[25:28]That's it.
[25:28]That's the end of secluded cabin.
[25:30]Sorry.
[25:32]We were just in our retreat a couple weeks ago, up in, in this,
[25:35]this beautiful resort called Inness, and they have these, like, 20 cabins,
[25:38]and then just a couple hotel rooms.
[25:40]And originally, we were all in cabin.
[25:41]I was like, I don't want to sleep one of these cabins.
[25:44]Like, I've got, I'd rather take this tiny room in that in the end, you know?
[25:47]Just like, light and like, someone else locking up.
[25:50]I was like, I don't know.
[25:51]I think I'll be creeped out.
[25:52]Yeah, I don't know.
[25:53]This is the city girl in me at least.
[25:55]I was going to say, this is the Manhattan girl.
[25:57]Yeah, sorry about that.
[25:58]It hasn't been so.
[25:58]Nature is very unpredictable.
[26:00]Yes.
[26:01]So, okay.
[26:02]Last question is, if you could pick and fill a cabin with six people
[26:08]or a dream vacation, maybe not where terrible things happen,
[26:12]who would you, who would you stick in the cabin with you?
[26:14]Actual people.
[26:15]Like a vacation that I would actually enjoy.
[26:18]Yeah.
[26:19]Like a vacation you would enjoy.
[26:20]Who would you want?
[26:21]They could be alive or not.
[26:23]They could be people you know, people you don't know,
[26:25]or it doesn't even have to be all six.
[26:27]But if you could, if you could dream up the cabin.
[26:29]Okay, well, everything that has to include my husband and my daughter
[26:33]because they are like, you know, they're my besties.
[26:36]You know, like, I don't enjoy anything as much as I do
[26:39]when I'm with them.
[26:40]So that's two.
[26:42]My husband, Jeff.
[26:43]That's three.
[26:44]Oh, you count.
[26:44]You count.
[26:45]Oh, I count too.
[26:46]Yeah.
[26:46]You're in the cabin.
[26:47]Oh, wow.
[26:47]I really only have three left.
[26:49]Okay.
[26:49]Definitely Oprah.
[26:51]Definitely Oprah.
[26:52]Yeah.
[26:53]Yeah.
[26:53]Because, you know, she's just such a force for good in the world.
[26:57]And I feel like she would have a lot of wisdom and, you know, presence.
[27:01]And I would just really like, I would love to hang out and talk to Oprah.
[27:05]So to be, I would like you to come.
[27:09]I'm in.
[27:09]Thank you.
[27:11]I would also like you to come that and we would talk, we would all just sit around and talk about
[27:16]like, books and we would cook food and make cocktails.
[27:22]And I'm trying to think of who would be my next person.
[27:26]It's just my Labrador panel.
[27:28]Time to bring Jack Jack.
[27:29]Okay.
[27:29]We can count.
[27:30]We can count Jack Jack.
[27:33]I'm sure if I gave this some more.
[27:34]I mean, if I had themes, I could probably come up with like, okay, you know, at Ground Poe.
[27:40]And you're all about it.
[27:43]The Bronte sisters, that would be really good.
[27:47]I would always wanted to talk to them about just not only their novels,
[27:52]but just their lives, which are so interesting.
[27:55]And like, you know, being a writer or a female writer during that time and all, you know,
[27:59]and all of that.
[28:00]Oh, Mary Shelley would be another one.
[28:03]I would like to have to.
[28:04]Okay.
[28:04]This is good.
[28:05]This is really gotten out of here.
[28:06]I'm sorry.
[28:07]I know we've got two cabins.
[28:08]That's okay.
[28:08]All right.
[28:09]We're at resort now.
[28:10]In the third cabin.
[28:14]Well, I put you on the spot.
[28:15]So I think that was well done.
[28:19]Thank you.
[28:19]Lisa, this was so fun.
[28:21]And for people listening, you can go back and listen to Lisa's last episode, which came out in
[28:25]February.
[28:26]So there's no lack of Lisa, I'm going to go around.
[28:32]Congratulations on your book.
[28:34]Thanks again for writing for us.
[28:35]It's a big egg.
[28:36]And thanks for just being so nice and complimentary and making my day your amazing,
[28:41]your real, your real treasure and a real, just your love of books is infectious.
[28:45]And I know everybody appreciates you so much, including me.
[28:49]Thank you.
[28:49]All right.
[28:50]I'll pack my back for the cabin.
[28:51]Okay.
[28:51]Great.
[28:52]Let's go.
[28:53]Bye.
[28:56]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms.
[28:58]Don't have time to read books.
[28:59]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at moms.
[29:03]Don't have time to read books.
[29:04]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[29:09]of authors on Zoom every other week.
[29:11]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[29:15]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[29:19]now trim music.