Zosia Mamet, MY FIRST POPSICLE: An Anthology of Food and Feelings

[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.

[0:07]Thank you so much. Called moms don't have time to read books.

[0:10]It is a daily podcast, 365 days a year, and each day we talk to an author about all of the things related to their career,

[0:18]their book, their life, and more in 30 minutes or less because who has time?

[0:22]I am now an author myself, although I wasn't when I started this podcast, and you can get my new memoir,

[0:28]bookends, a memoir of love, love, and literature, wherever books are sold starting July 1st, and my children's book prints is charming.

[0:36]You can learn more about me at zimbyones.com, but really you're here to learn more about the authors, and that is what we're going to do.

[0:43]Also, be sure to check out all the other podcasts in the Zcast podcast network.

[0:48]You can learn more at zcastnetwork.com and definitely check out those shows as well.

[0:58]Zoshia Mamet is the editor of The Amazing Anthology, My First Popsicle, An Anthology of Food and Feelings.

[1:05]Zoshia is perhaps best known for her starring role in the Emmy and Golden Globe award-winning HBO series Girls, and her role in the Emmy-nominated HBO Max series, The Flight Attended,

[1:16]which by the way was based on the book by Chris Bajillion, who has been on this podcast several times.

[1:21]When she is an on-screen, you can find her at the barn riding her horse, or at home in the woods with her husband and snuggling their dog.

[1:28]By the way, one of the contributors to My First Popsicle is author Stephanie Danler, who has also been on this podcast if you want to hear more about her.

[1:36]Also, David Stairis, you can listen to both of their podcast episodes on previous moms don't have time to read books episodes.

[1:43]Welcome, Zoshia. Thank you so much for coming. On moms don't have time to read books to discuss my first popsicle and anthology of food and feelings.

[1:51]Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[1:54]I probably couldn't have picked a more enticing subtitle in the book than food and feelings combined. I mean, like, what else is there to talk about? That's perfect.

[2:05]I'm so happy you think so. I mean, you know, I wanted to create a whole book about it. So I feel the same way. Yeah, I could. I feel like I've read a lot. This is like one of my go to topics because you know food.

[2:17]Anyway, why don't you I know you wrote about it in the introduction and everything, but can you explain to listeners how you arrived at this anthology idea and then talk a little about how you went about implementing it when finding all your contributors.

[2:31]For sure. So we, my husband and I went to dinner with some friends of ours and they were running late and they showed up and they were like, I'm so sorry that really they had a toddler at the time who is now no longer a toddler which feels crazy.

[2:45]But they were like, we gave him a popsicle for the first time and he was just overwhelmed by the experience and we were going through it with him and they showed us this video of him eating a popsicle for the first time.

[2:58]And it was about a two minute video and this kid is going through, he's hitting every major emotion that you can think of and with like such vehements like he's just feeling these feelings eating a popsicle for the first time at first.

[3:14]He's kind of scared of it and he seems to not like it. I think it's so cold and he's like a little shocked.

[3:20]And then he's really curious about it and then he gets really into it and then there's a moment where I think he probably experiences his first brain freeze and he gets like pretty upset.

[3:30]But it was just so incredible watching this child have this myriad of emotions in reference to this food that he was experiencing for the first time.

[3:43]And I started thinking about the fact that as we get older, we really don't have those experiences often because we are, you know, unless we're eating something really crazy like, and I'm like monkey toes, we sort of don't have that experience of a food for the first time.

[4:04]And then I started to think a little deeper on it and it just dawned on me that food is so intrinsically tied to emotion and feeling and you know highs and lows and good and bad memory and family and all the things.

[4:19]And I knew it on it for a couple of days and then I wrote my editors about it and I was like, I kind of think this could be an interesting idea and they were like, we kind of think it could be an interesting idea too.

[4:31]So like, it has to have been done before.

[4:35]And I was like, right, I think it probably has been and they did their due diligence and they did some digging and it seemed like no one had really written about that in a super specific way and something else that I was hoping would come across.

[4:49]When I reached out to contributors of those who became contributors that seemed like it really did I had this inkling that it was this super universal thing, you know, we all have to eat, we all feel things, we all have emotions that are tied to food and I felt like everybody would respond to those two topics tied together.

[5:10]And I never know until you put it out there and I was wonderfully greeted with all of these people being just so excited and on board and really like kind of jumping at the bit to write about this topic.

[5:27]I mean, honestly, I just got my dream lists together and some people I knew so my didn't somewhere like friends of friends or I had some sort of connection with them, some people like just literally found their email and.

[5:42]Holding out them and that's how I went about completely contributors specifically everybody who I could get to say yes to write an essay for this book. Wow, I edited two anthologies and I know all about the pain involved perhaps in compiling all of the things and figuring out the order and like all the things you think about when you're trying to make the book deadlines and length and you had all these recipes in here too so problem.

[6:07]I loved what was it called the essay in particular about the meatball and the breakup at the restaurant what was his name pulled on. Andrew.

[6:17]Yes, Andrew, ball buster. I don't know this one has stayed with me so much because he writes in such a specific way about every bite he's having as his boyfriend breaks up with him and you can like taste the meatball as he's chewing it is like such a vivid description of what that moment is like you can just see the fuel at the next table kind of staring over and not eavesdropping and being embarrassed.

[6:45]So tell me about your reactions when you got these essays and that one perhaps in particular to start to your point it was so much work and it's funny because my wonderful editor Meg at Viking and my book agents were like you know this is this is like a big undertaking and I was like it's going to be so fun.

[7:05]And then I ended up I was shooting a television show I was shooting season two of flight attendant while I was editing this book and it was yeah it was pretty insane I learned a lot about I sent a lot of emails that were like a deadline is not a suggestion.

[7:21]But it was so fun and it was so incredible because you know I had really high hopes for this book and asking all of these incredible people and having them say yes I was so excited to see what they wrote and everybody just blew me away.

[7:36]It was like every essay I got was better than I ever could have imagined and I feel like what I wanted so deeply when I set out to create this book was for people to come to the table with their voice their experience.

[7:54]And so I really didn't give a lot of direction unless people pressed me for it I gave like as little as possible essentially I said write about food and feelings and as long as it comes back to that or the thread through line is that whatever you want it was really interesting because a lot of the actual authors were like begging me to give them a word count and I was like no there's just like play you know there are no boundaries.

[8:24]But every essay just totally surprised me and I learned a lot about people you know those who I don't know those who I know really well people really came to the table with some fascinating sometimes really heart wrenching stories and

[8:42]he never told me that story before that essay just it made me laugh so hard.

[8:48]And also just I definitely cried reading it and it just made like that scenario too like we've all been there when you you feel like you're going down a lazy river and all as well and you're just like not even thinking and all of a sudden like a shirt comes out and eats you

[9:08]like how is there a shirt at a lazy river you know he was like this is the man I'm going to marry and it's Valentine's Day and we're at a romantic dinner and now my life is being blown up.

[9:20]And he's such a wonderful writer and I just felt like he wrote with such abandon in such a perfect way.

[9:26]Yes, totally.

[9:27]And that's a great thing too it's like now I'm like well I have to read all the other things all these contributors have written because of their voice and everything.

[9:34]I'm also a huge Stephanie Danler fan I adore her and you know I hadn't heard I mean I don't know why I would have heard it's not like we're like BFFs but you know I hadn't heard about this moment of her life post divorce

[9:46]reinvention like trying to get on her feet again just like now from this vantage point we can see how her career totally took off.

[9:55]And sweet bitter and stray and all this but like to go back to the before.

[10:00]point of someone you respect so much.

[10:02]It's really amazing.

[10:04]And just like stripping all that away and seeing like,

[10:06]okay, well, heroes are in a really, really vulnerable point,

[10:10]which obviously she shares throughout her work,

[10:12]but still it was, I don't know.

[10:14]It's like you feel like you're befriending

[10:16]all these authors even more,

[10:17]like deepening your relationships

[10:19]through what they share so intimately.

[10:21]Absolutely.

[10:22]And you know, the thing again that I love so much

[10:25]about so many of these essays is even though they're about,

[10:29]these exceptionally specific experiences

[10:31]that these people have.

[10:32]You know, like you may not have been through divorce

[10:35]and yet to me at the core of that essay,

[10:37]it's about rediscovering yourself.

[10:41]When traumatic things happen,

[10:42]I think often we kind of go dormant

[10:45]and everything becomes a bit muted.

[10:49]Like the world, our experience of the world,

[10:51]our relationship to it.

[10:53]And to me, like, yes, it's about this vinaigrette,

[10:58]but what it's really about is like her reawakening,

[11:02]her connection to something she loved,

[11:04]which was cooking, which had sort of gone to sleep

[11:07]when she experienced this horrible thing.

[11:10]Yes.

[11:11]And then you even have like Rosie Perez

[11:13]and other big deal names and people in the acting world

[11:17]and people in the writing world, Rosie Perezing,

[11:20]she was a love child.

[11:22]I mean, just, this is amazing, all these inside peaks.

[11:26]Were there any topics that

[11:27]you felt like, well, someone's totally gonna write

[11:30]about blah, blah, blah, blah, and then like none

[11:31]of the essays came back that way?

[11:33]That's a good question.

[11:34]I don't think so.

[11:35]You know, I feel like they really ran the gamut

[11:38]of subject matters.

[11:40]I really went into the creation of this book

[11:43]with like kind of no expectations.

[11:47]I just, I knew that I was asking exceptional people

[11:51]who I loved and admired and trusted creatively.

[11:55]And I wanted the experience

[11:58]for everyone contributing to be joyful.

[12:01]I think a lot of times it was,

[12:03]people reported also kind of painful,

[12:05]but sometimes also people said it was very cathartic

[12:08]writing about certain things,

[12:09]but I wanted it to be enjoyable for them.

[12:12]So I was really just,

[12:14]again, it's why I was so loose with the prompt,

[12:16]but I wanted people to write about whatever they wanted

[12:19]to write about, you know, whatever sparked a fire in them.

[12:23]So I kind of didn't have any expectations

[12:25]in terms of subject matter.

[12:27]I think you should teach a class called Food and Feelings.

[12:30]I can online seminar or like writing about food

[12:33]and feelings.

[12:34]I feel like so many people would sign up

[12:36]and you could do like all these spin-off anthologies

[12:40]or I don't know whatever you want to do with them.

[12:42]Actually today I had a kind of cool experience.

[12:44]I'm a horseback rider and a woman that I ride with at the barn.

[12:47]I brought her one of my advance copies

[12:49]because she said she wanted to read it.

[12:51]She said she started it yesterday.

[12:54]And she was like, you know, I started reading the first essay.

[12:58]And I got so inspired that I stopped

[13:01]and I wrote about my own experience.

[13:04]And I was like, that's the best compliment

[13:07]that I could ever get.

[13:08]Like that's, you know, we talked about wanting

[13:11]to maybe do something with that.

[13:12]Eventually that like to see what readers come back with

[13:15]because I really do think everyone has a story to tell

[13:19]that involves these two things.

[13:21]It's true.

[13:22]You mentioned in the beginning

[13:24]that you have your own history with eating disorders.

[13:26]How do you feel about being public about that?

[13:30]Can you talk about it a little bit more?

[13:32]Sure.

[13:33]I mean, I've always been very open about it.

[13:35]I think first and foremost because it's sadly so common

[13:41]not only in this day and age,

[13:43]but also in my profession.

[13:45]And I think as with so many addictions,

[13:49]one of the things that's so hard about it is even though

[13:52]you know when you're going through something like that

[13:54]that you're not the only one to ever struggle.

[13:57]I think that's the most overwhelming feeling is like

[14:00]the shame and the loneliness.

[14:02]And I always found during my recovery

[14:05]when I could talk to other people who had been through it

[14:08]as well and feel like I wasn't alone.

[14:12]I wasn't the only one who had ever struggled with this.

[14:15]The people had gotten to the other side.

[14:17]It was just really encouraging.

[14:20]It was really like it was kind of a salve.

[14:22]So I've just tried to be as vocal as I can

[14:25]about my own experience in the hopes that even if

[14:30]that reaches one girl who's struggling or boy or anyone,

[14:35]you know, and they can maybe see some hope in the fact

[14:39]that like, A, they're not alone and B,

[14:41]you can get through it.

[14:43]So that's why I've always tried to just talk about it

[14:46]and write about it.

[14:47]It's also cathartic for me.

[14:48]And I think something else about eating disorders

[14:51]that's a sad truth is that they're really

[14:53]your lifelong struggle.

[14:54]You know, they say, I mean, with so many addictions,

[14:57]like you're pretty much always in recovery.

[14:59]Sorry, that's my dog.

[15:01]That's okay.

[15:02]She's protecting the home's dad.

[15:04]My dog is right outside the door.

[15:07]She sings the delivery of guys out together.

[15:10]Poor delivery guys being barked at all day.

[15:12]No matter where they go.

[15:13]She's all bark.

[15:15]But and it's funny because, you know,

[15:17]I sort of thought that people would write about that

[15:20]for this book.

[15:21]Again, I didn't guide anybody to that subject matter.

[15:24]And I really, something I really loved was that

[15:27]I feel like there are a couple of essays that talk about it.

[15:30]And they really, they fill the spectrum,

[15:33]which I think something else that often isn't talked about.

[15:35]You know, I think sometimes people think

[15:38]if they're not struggling at one extreme

[15:41]of an eating disorder, then they may be like,

[15:44]aren't worthy of help.

[15:45]And you know, it's especially, I think,

[15:49]if you have any type of a struggle with it,

[15:53]you can often feel like, well, it's not that bad.

[15:58]Or maybe I don't need to talk about it.

[15:59]And I think often we all have some version

[16:03]of some sort of weird relationship to food or our bodies.

[16:06]And I think just understanding that it's okay

[16:09]to talk about is really important.

[16:11]And also to know that like everybody deals with it

[16:14]on some version of the spectrum.

[16:17]So I thought that was really beautiful to see

[16:19]that people really wrote about their experiences

[16:23]with when I guess you were called disordered eating

[16:26]or, you know, body image issues in a really varied way.

[16:30]Do you feel like Andrew in the book wrote about hitting bottom

[16:33]in the best way that you said?

[16:35]The funny thing about rock bottom

[16:36]is that it's never the true bottom.

[16:38]They're always little trap doors with sub basements

[16:40]and sellers, you didn't know existed.

[16:42]I had just fallen into it.

[16:44]Did you have a hitting bottom pre sub basement moment?

[16:48]Oh yeah, definitely.

[16:51]I mean, I think a major trap door

[16:53]that's had like so many people experience is relapsing.

[16:57]You know, it's like you hit bottom, you think.

[17:01]And then it's such a sad but true adage,

[17:05]which is like you really, you can't get better

[17:08]until you want to get better.

[17:10]And you know, it's a painful trap door,

[17:13]but it's an important one, I think.

[17:16]And sometimes I think it's, you know,

[17:18]hitting rock bottom is a horrible terrifying thing.

[17:21]And sometimes I think it can be the most powerful

[17:26]incredible thing you can ever experience

[17:28]because it really forces you to rebuild

[17:33]from a place of knowledge.

[17:34]You know, when I started my recovery

[17:38]and I started to get a little bit on the other side

[17:42]of like really, really struggling,

[17:45]I attempted to look at it as a positive thing

[17:47]even though it was so horrible

[17:50]because I kind of got to grow up a second time,

[17:55]but with the awareness of being an adult.

[18:00]And I think if you're able to put a spin on it

[18:02]like that, it can actually be really kind of incredible.

[18:06]So yeah, it's wonderful.

[18:09]How does the intersection of sort of a book

[18:12]and books and literature dovetail with your acting career

[18:17]went like when you're on set and you're like,

[18:18]okay, I'm gonna go do a book tour or whatever.

[18:20]I'm gonna talk about my book today or whatever.

[18:23]Have you found an eager audience for reading

[18:26]or is anyone reading on set?

[18:28]Like what is the general thought?

[18:30]I think it really depends on the person.

[18:32]I mean, everyone has their different way

[18:34]that they spend their downtime on set.

[18:36]I love to read on set.

[18:38]I definitely need, when I'm working,

[18:41]I need a book that's like kind of an easy flip.

[18:45]That doesn't require too much brain power

[18:47]because otherwise it's like my brain attempt

[18:49]to remember lines and also like read something

[18:51]how to use a terrible combination.

[18:53]But yeah, and then there are some people

[18:56]that I think just like now or watch.

[19:01]Yeah, let me TV, which I totally respect.

[19:03]Well, I've always been a big reader.

[19:06]I love reading and you know, to me,

[19:09]I love writing just as much as I love acting

[19:13]because it's all just storytelling.

[19:15]It's all just different versions of storytelling.

[19:18]And I love, it's one of the reasons I love reading so much

[19:21]is that it's such an intimate relationship in my opinion.

[19:24]You know, I love movies.

[19:26]I love television.

[19:27]Obviously it's what I do for a living,

[19:29]but there's something about reading a book

[19:32]where it's your, no one will ever know

[19:36]how I see the book that I just read,

[19:40]how I told myself that story through that person's prism.

[19:44]And that's such a magical thing to me.

[19:47]And it's just, it's so intimate.

[19:49]But it's all just, it's all story,

[19:52]which I love so much.

[19:53]It's like when I was a kid and I was like,

[19:55]wait a minute, the way I see the color blue

[19:57]might not be the way you see the color blue.

[20:00]that like flows my mind. I got stuck on that for so long. Like, your green right in my

[20:10]blue. Yes. Yes. Crazy. I know. Yeah. I would take some long family trip and everybody was

[20:19]finding like, enough of this. Thank you. That's good. We got it. We got it. We got it. You know,

[20:23]whatever. It moves different for everyone. Okay. Everyone, but you're right. It's the same thing

[20:28]with the story. I mean, I think that's why some authors say that they don't like to even

[20:33]think about who would star in their book. Right. Like, they don't want to have a realistic

[20:39]couple on the cover because they want everybody to use their imagination to figure out who it

[20:43]might be for them. And speaking of covers, this is so cool. By the way, I love, do you love your cover?

[20:48]It's so exciting. I love it so much. You know, part of my inspiration for the book was this

[20:55]book that I read as a child called Fanny at the shape and east about Alice Waters' daughter

[20:59]growing up there. And it was actually the first thing that I ever baked that made me fall in love

[21:03]with baking was a ginger sat recipe out of that book. And have you ever read it? No, but I read

[21:10]Fanny Singers memoir from two years ago. And she was on my podcast. It was great.

[21:15]Incredible. But the book is me. It's a children's book, but it's about her growing up at the restaurant.

[21:21]And then it's interspersed with kid-friendly recipes that are tied to the story. And I love this

[21:26]book as a little girl. The illustrations were beautiful and elevated, but still so whimsical.

[21:34]And when we started talking about what the visuals were going to be like in the book,

[21:39]I was like, I don't want photography. I don't want anything in there that's

[21:43]to your point. Like, what how authors say they don't want to imagine who would play their characters.

[21:48]And I was like, I don't want anything that's taking this too much out of someone's imagination.

[21:53]And I wanted, I just wanted really beautiful, elevated whimsical illustrations. And I used

[22:00]Fanny at the shape and east as my reference and biking and penguin did a deep dive. And they found

[22:05]our incredible illustrator. And I just couldn't be happier. Amazing. When you say you love to read

[22:11]so much, which I do too, obviously, I wouldn't be doing the podcast. But what types of

[22:15]likes do you love to read the most? Do you have a genre or favorite authors or anything you happen

[22:19]to be reading right now? I actually just started Jurassic Park, which I've never wore. We just moved

[22:26]and I was like looking through our books. And I grabbed that and I was like, I've never read this.

[22:32]So I'm just, I'm just in the beginning. But it's super fun. I'm enjoying it. But I love all

[22:38]books. I'm a fiction reader. I'm not great with nonfiction. And it doesn't really grab me.

[22:43]I like to escape into my books. But I definitely have some favorite authors. And I would say,

[22:50]you know, I go up and down. It's funny. Like I love a good mystery. Like I'm a huge

[22:54]Agatha Christie night. I love Tana French. I just like ripped through all of her novels. Sometimes

[23:01]I just want like something like call it a popcorn read, you know. Like I have a new

[23:06]Ruth Ware that's on my nightstand right now. I love a good book of essays. I'm a huge fan,

[23:12]like Eve Babbitt is one of my favorite authors of all time ever. And I think sort of in the same

[23:18]realm is like Nora Efron. It's also love love David Sedaris who like getting him to write an essay

[23:25]for the book was, I was like, I can die now. And then I'm just, there's sort of too many to count.

[23:33]I would say classic wise. I'm, I love Jane Austen. I love Edith Wharton, Don Powell, like those

[23:39]women who write these kind of like sweeping romantic novels. I love, I love Bukowski. I love

[23:46]Hemingway, Dave Eggers, John O'Hara is another favorite of mine. Who else do I love?

[23:53]That was one of the longest response. I literally, I could keep going. No, no, I loved it. It was

[23:58]amazing, but I know my friend has a book club called the Inky Phoenix. And she asked me once to do

[24:05]like favorite authors, favorite novels, a couple of, I was in the kitchen recording it. And my

[24:10]husband was listening. And I think it ended up being like 30 minutes. He was like, you can't send

[24:13]that. Like it needs to be like five. And I was like, but that's the answer. You need to cut it down.

[24:22]I clearly love books. I could just, I could keep going. Well, we should schedule a second episode

[24:28]just to talk about our favorite books for like eternity and the eternity episode. Anyway,

[24:34]Rosetta, thank you so much. This is so fun. I'd love to keep talking about your books and reading

[24:39]and you're obviously just so bright and obviously talented and so many fields. So it's a

[24:44]a joy to chat with you and congratulations on this book. And you know, it's the perfect thing

[24:49]for one a night before you get a bed or whatever. It's like amazing. And so easy to like throw

[24:54]and you're back. I don't know. I think this is great. I think it's fabulous gift for the holidays

[24:58]and everything. So yeah, so happy you enjoyed it. And thank you so much for having me. This was

[25:03]this was a pleasure. You too. Have a great day. We do. Bye. Bye.

[25:09]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to

[25:13]follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign up for

[25:18]my newsletter at ZB Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom

[25:24]every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan Heck, Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.

[25:28]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.