Rochelle B. Weinstein, WHEN WE LET GO

[0:50]Zibby Owens: Hi. I'm Zibby Owens, the creator and host of the award winning podcast that you're listening to right now, thank you so much, called Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. It is a daily podcast three hundred and sixty five days a year, and each day we talk to an author about all of the things related to their career, their book, their life, and more in thirty minutes or less because who has time? I am now an author myself, although I wasn't when I started this podcast, and you can get my new memoir, A Memoir of Love, Loss, and Literature wherever books are sold starting July 1, and my children's book, Prince is Charming. You can learn more about me @zbowens.com. But, really, you're here to learn more about the authors, and that is what we're going to do. Also, sure to check out all the other podcasts in the ZCast Podcast Network. You can learn more at zcastnetwork.com and definitely check out those shows as well. I hope you'll all check out the all new Zippy Mag, z I b b y m a g, the literary lifestyle destination with essays, book news, a lit lifestyle feature, and even some classes. Check it out at zippymag.com. Michelle Weinstein is the author of When We Let Go. Michelle is The USA Today and Amazon bestselling author of emotionally driven women's fiction, including This Is Not How It Ends, which by the way, she was on my podcast for that as well. Somebody's Daughter, Where We Fall, The Morning After, morning spelled m o u r n I n g, morning after, and What We Leave Behind. When We Let Go is her most recent release. Rochelle spent her early years always with a book in hand raised by the likes of Sydney Sheldon and Judy Blum. A former entertainment industry executive, she splits her time between sunny South Florida and the mountains of North Carolina. When she's not writing, Rochelle can be found hiking, reading, and searching for the world's best nachos. She's currently working on her seventh novel. Rochelle and I, by the way, have become good friends as well as Lisa Barr. They're just two of the nicest authors and have just really welcomed me into the world of literature and women's writers, and I just absolutely love Rochelle. Welcome, Rochelle. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books again to talk about When We Let Go,

[3:03]Rochelle B. Weinstein: your most recent novel. Thank you for having me. You know I always love our chats. Me too. And you know how much I'm obsessed with this cover. I still think this is like one of my favorite covers. The colors, the suitcase, the flowers. For anyone listening, just go Google this book, When We Let Go, Rochelle B. Weinstein. So I love the cover. And the story, my gosh. Okay. It was dark. There are dark parts of this, but still inspiring. So tell listeners what it's what When We Let Go is about. Okay, When We Let Go follows the journey of Avery Beckett. She's harboring a big secret, a big tragedy from her past, and it's inhibiting her current relationship and really connecting. And she's based in Miami. So she's called back to North Carolina where this tragedy occurred, where her family lives on this farm in Crystal, North Carolina. And it's there that she well, on her way to North Carolina, she's met with a stowaway in the backseat of her car, which is her current boyfriend slash we're on a break daughter. And what follows is this incredible journey of these two women who are broken. Elle is still reeling from the death of her mother. And she doesn't like Avery's presence in her father's life. And she's an angsty 15 year old. But what's so beautiful, and you probably know this, I spend a lot of time in the North Carolina Mountains, and I find them to be extremely healing. And I turned that healing into a fictionalized story. And these two come together on these beautiful, they really just ground themselves in nature, it really comes back to just, you know, going home, and how they heal each other through their pain. And Avery eventually deals with her secret and reconciling with her past. So there's also the whole sort of subplot, if you will, of how you deal with the children of the person that you're dating marrying slash whatever, which, you know, I am intimately familiar with, given that Kyle has to deal with my kids all the time. And it was so interesting for me in particular, that part of it, and how she how Avery is able to navigate the relationships, how much affection she feels when the sons accidentally eat the teenage girls edibles and they are in the hospital. But there's like a serious health concern once they eat this whole bucket of edibles thinking they're gummy bears. How she feels like, it's like carving out her heart the way any it would with anyone you care so much about. And even when she decides to take a break, how she feels about the kids is just killing her. So talk about that aspect of this whole scenario. Well, I think that because of Avery's loss, and we know early on that she's lost a child. So I think that there's this part of her that wants so badly to experience those feelings and be accepted in their lives and to sort of do it again, have a do over and do it. You know, I think she harbored so much of this guilt. And I think at the same time, I think, you know, you've probably, well, maybe Kyle's experienced this. There's probably this tremendous fear, and there's also this tremendous willingness and desire to connect. And I think those two emotions, they battle each other. So I think that there's this part of her that wants that connection, but I think she's really terrified of it and scared she's going to muck it up. I mean, I feel like that's in every relationship in part a little bit, but very true. So I was also interested, and I went back and made sure that I got it right, because it seems so much she is grieving a child, and yet the child was not born yet. And we know that early too, so I feel like I can say that. You know, the child is 38 in utero. There's so much in the news, not that this relates to abortion specifically, but what makes a child? When is a child a child? Like, what rights do we have over our body? And this loss, and I've known people with very late stage losses and it's devastating. It's my God. But it was an interesting choice to have Avery lose her baby in utero then versus a baby that's born or like what made you decide to do it then? Well, first of all, this book was written two, three years ago. So this was not going on in current events at all. So it wasn't dictated by that. I write what I know and what I'm familiar with. I haven't experienced that type of loss, but two very close friends of mine did. And had to give birth to the child. It was a fully formed human being. So I just sort of extrapolated from those, what I watched and what I observed and how I saw and there was nothing political about it. We were far away from this moment in time we're at right now. But to see someone go through that experience, and, you most women are giving birth to a child, and it's the beginning. And for this woman, it was the end for her. So, what does birth signify for her and how painful that was for her to have gone through? I just, you know, my friends who have been through this and any woman who's been through this is truly, it's devastating. And we know a lot of people, I know, you know, lot of people, even in our little social media world, that are very public about it. And it's just it's true, truly tragic. I remember when I was maybe nine or 10 years old, the superintendent of my school, I think he was the superintendent. I don't know what his official title was, but he worked in a school every day and he had a stillborn and everyone in the school knew and we all had to like have a moment of silence and like send him a card or something like that. And I remember going home that night and talking to my parents about it and being like, you know, what would you have rather would you rather have me die, you know, because I am so Morbid. Morbid. Morbid. Morbid, real, honest. I don't know. So I was like, would you have rather if you had the choice, would you rather me die in childbirth as your child or like now at age 10? Would it have been easier? What would have been easier for you? I don't know. Was That's question. So you were a journalist back then. How old were you when you were? I was like nine or 10. I was nine or 10. I'll never forget this because my dad said, Oh, now for sure. Because I had the chance to get to know you. And I was like, Yeah, but didn't Doesn't that make it harder that you know that you would know me and then lose me? And he was like, No, no. He said it would be easier now? He said it would be easier to lose. I would rather have ten years because at least you would have had ten years with me versus not the opportunity to get to know me at all. But that would be so much harder. That's what I thought. But that's not what he But no, I think that makes sense in some ways, because you would rather have that time than no time at all. Yeah. I guess. Anyway, I don't know. Like never forgot that moment. We were like sitting at the dinner table. And yes, I have had it's devastating when it happens. And, you know, it's just terrible. So you wrote it with so much. I also feel that people we don't really unless someone experiences something, it's very difficult to understand and empathize with feelings. And I know that there was some, you know, I don't read my reviews, I'm very public about that. But Steven will read me my reviews. And there'll be some people that will just there'll be some comments about I don't even know what and I know you've just had some experience with people writing things about, but I'm like, know what, you know what, if you don't experience it, you just don't get it. We need to be the people that need to share those experiences and, you know, build upon the empathy or gather more empathy in our world. So I Yeah, I think so. I mean, I posted that one comment on Twitter, I've tried to listen and not read my reviews. So I really only skim and if I see negative ones, skim to the next and I've only I haven't I've stopped after the first like week or two. I'm just like, I'm trying not to even get it. You should you should have a designated person that reads your reviews. And if there's some even the one stars, there's one or two, there's sometimes always, if there's something that's like consistent, it's something to think about, you know, for your next book. I know memoir is a little bit different, and it feels much more personal. But I feel like if there's sometimes there's some constructive criticism, and it's okay, we all have to deal with it. But I think that when you have that person who's, you know, funneling it to you and sort of, you know, curating it, So it's not as painful. I think it's, you know, Steven will text me and be like, just got a great review or be like, Oh, you just, but I just think that the further away you are from it, the better you are, if you have somebody like is the go between. You're right. Okay. If anyone listening would like to read all my reviews and let me know. Let's see. No. I think that's Kyle's job. You need to tell him that. Oh, you know, he's not a big reader. I feel like that would be very taxing. So losing an ex, parting with an ex in any way, is something I think about a lot too. Because where does that love go? When you've loved someone, when your paths diverge after this period of intensity, what happens with that? Does it evaporate? Where does love go when there's nowhere to place it or you decide you're not right for someone or I don't know. So I spent time thinking about that. What do you think about that? I think that, you know, I'm listening to you talk and I'm thinking about like, is she talking about her husband? Like, I'm thinking about like where this is going. No, no, I just mean like, I mean, I think about the whole course of my life, right? Which I like revisit writing bookends, but you know, and not even romantic love, right? People that I've lost, like my best friend, like where that love or like my grandmother, like, where does the love go? Like, where does her own love for me go? Like, where does my love for her go? Like, I don't know. This sounds ridiculous now. Well, it's also what I think. You're very good at putting your love out there in bookends. You know, we're gonna plug bookends right now. Oh, Michelle. No, no, but you're very good at, I think there's many, like you said, there's multiple types of love, familial love, friendship love, romantic love. And I don't believe that there's that one person, there's that one love. I think that it's very multifaceted. And listen, you're talking to somebody who I still have friendships with ex boyfriends, and people think it's weird. But like you're saying, where does that love go? I think at the root of love is oftentimes friendship and a mutual and possible respect for one another. So I think that it's okay to compartmentalize and to have those, you know, those lost loves, those lost friendships. They're in our hearts. And I always and they're always in our tears. Like, I always feel that love is. I read a quote, and I wish I could remember it. And I'll come back to me later, just about how losing somebody is felt in our tears and our words, you know, I lost my mom, and she's with me in every one of my books and somehow in some way that love is through a butter butterfly. It's in something that she has said to me. So I think that they're all around us. And I think it's okay not to judge ourselves for that. I love that. I bring it up because I feel like Avery is grappling with this a lot. Like, what does she do with it? And anyway, I'll stop being a woo woo this morning, but Speaking my language though. Oh, okay.

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[15:59]Rochelle B. Weinstein: The whole notion of the proposal, right, and the dashed hopes of someone like you start your novel with, which courses through the book because it's all the repercussions of that moment, because it's still mostly or seems to be on the shoulders of the men to come up with these elaborate engagements. And, you know, I'm sure that is changing, but let's just say for our generation or something that was very much the case. And you like to believe that they know what the answer is going to be, but then sometimes you have these big public displays or you hear about it in restaurants or something happens. And then there's the hurt of that, that they're so hurt that it obscures the relationship. Or, you know, I was so interested with Avery because she was offended after, right? When Jude gets rejected, then he understandably kind of recoils and doesn't want to let her in and puts up his defenses. And then she's offended by his defenses and is almost confused by it because she was like, A minute ago, he wanted to spend his life with me, but now he doesn't want anything to do with me. And then she's hurt. So it's like, she hurts him, his defenses go up, she gets hurt. It's understandable. Like, it shouldn't be a surprise, but she's still, it's still so hard not to take personally being rebuffed by somebody you love so much, even if it's caused by something that you do. Right. So I don't know. Tell me about that. First of all, I want to say something, I don't know if this answers your question. But I do going back to proposals and stuff. I think it's so incredibly admirable to have the strength and the courage to be able to say no when you're not feeling it. Because it's so easy to get caught up in the hoopla of an engagement and not wanting to hurt someone's feeling. How often do people end up saying yes, getting married because out of fear of hurting somebody that they love, like their feelings almost don't matter. And I have a brother and I'm sure he's gonna love me for saying this. Three weeks before his wedding, he canceled. And it was a horrible thing. But I do admire being able to be true to yourself and having the courage because that takes a ton. I think it's so much easier to get married than to walk away three weeks when people have already bought dresses and whatnot. And so it doesn't answer your question. But her saying no in that moment, which I don't even know if she really said no, she just was I think she was complete. She didn't say yes. She didn't say yes. That's true. She just didn't give an answer. She didn't give just an needed to go home. And she needed to let go of that struggle with Jude and with her past. You know, there was no way around it. You know, she was back and forth. Like you said, they were both she was the push pull. But there was really no way to get them where they needed to be without her going home. Very true. And her relationship with her sister changes so much over the course of the book, right? She is sort of associated with her sister with this terribly sad time of life. And it was another barrier that she put up this time in a way to sort of protect yourself and block out. It's so easy to blame someone else. You know, we all do that. You know, we it's so easy to blame someone else rather than to look inward and see how did, what did I do? And how did I contribute to this? And how can I fix this? So I think that it was just, you know, holding on to that anger, you know, that's the other thing is just in this book is a lot of the holding on, letting in, letting go. So holding on to the anger toward her sister was also it was working for her. It was working for her until it stopped working. Yes. I love the whole letting go of the baggage metaphor of the cover because there is so much to let go of with past sadness and past anger, like you're saying. And imagine if everyone just like sort of was like, okay, you know that fight we had like two weeks ago? Forget it. You know that thing that happened in high school? I'm over it. Like, I'm still talking about this one mean note somebody wrote me in second grade. Like, what is my problem? I was recently talking to somebody about letting go, and there are some things that we just don't let them and we we're so rational in our thinking, and we understand that it is so irrational to be holding on to it. Why is it so difficult to let it go? Why is it? Did you do any psychological digging? We have been doing psychological digging about this for like weeks. Sometimes I think it's just this, the feeling that we get from it is a comfortable feeling. And you know, to deviate from that feeling is a little uncomfortable for us. But I will say to go back to the cover with baggage. And I didn't realize this until after the book came out. And I spent some time just staring at the cover. But to me, this was Avery, the flowers were Avery and Elle. I mean, and their their seeds were planted. And we watched them through the course of the story, like flourish and grow. And they let both they both were able to let go. Lots of meanings. So, Rochelle, you have maintained a career as an author, which is something that not I mean, I don't even know what point zero whatever percent can do that, right? You book after book comes out. How do you do this? You're with Lake Union. You were extolling the virtues of the First Reads program, which I know you've benefited from. Talk to me about publishing with Lake Union, which is owned by Amazon Publishing. Talk to me about how you maintain like a schedule and sort of the pros and cons of this whole life. Oh, gosh, you guys should be Two big questions. Just taught a course on this. I teach a workshop in Miami through Nova Southeastern University about, you know, publishing and agenting and whatnot. And first of all, there's no formula to this business, there is no formula. You know, it's interesting, you might look at my career online, social media, and it looks like a straight shoot seamless. It's never like that. There's been so many ups and downs. I did a graph of my seven books for the class, like each book was a different color. And it was literally I titled it, The Roller Coaster Ride from Hell, because that's truly what it is. It's not easy. And, you know, the one piece of advice that I could give to any author, I say this all the time. So I'm sorry, if this is redundant, but you have to keep writing, you're only as good as your last book, you just have to keep providing content to be relevant. You know, if you're not writing, have nothing, you're putting nothing out there, you're not building your brand, you're not building your audience. So, and not every book is going to stick, You're going to have, think about one of your favorite authors and going, I didn't love that one so much. But then they come out with the next one. You need to have thick skin. I don't think you should be reading your reviews. Far as my writing, you know, my daily writing, I would, okay, so Lake Union, let me backtrack. So, I love working with Lake Union because I self published my first two books. And what I loved about working with Lake Union, it was the personal touch and it was collaborative. At the same time, I felt like there was still some autonomy that I had, you know, with self publishing. So, it was like the best of both worlds. And listen, you can't beat Amazon. Don't hate me for saying this, but you can't beat Amazon's muscle, their marketing, their ability to you know, you've read this book, you'll like this book and their email and their marketing. And I mean, they are the gorilla in the room. And I think you also know this about me, I'm a huge book reader, like physical book reader. And I love supporting the indie bookstores. And I think there is a way that we could all get along. And that could be a whole other panel one day, but it's all for the good of readers and for books. So, I just think there has to be some way that we could all work together. And I do try to do that with contests and whatnot, and I support Indy. But anyway, I love working with Lake Union. I love my editor. They've already bought my the last two books were not easily sold. There was a drag. There was a long backstory for this story that when I turned it in, it took like five months for them to get back to me. Why? Why? I mean, like anything COVID delays, you know, a backlog, but you know, you think like someone who's already had like, however many books, you know, wouldn't happen, but it happens. It happens to all of us. And the key is getting back up, dusting off your back, you know, you put it out there. And then the next day you're out and about, you know, you talk about, you know, some of your struggles, then the next day you're moving and shaking. And that's what you have to do. You know, you can't harp it. I give it the twenty four hour rule, I can be upset, I could be angry. And then I get back to writing. So the last book took them five months to get back to me. And then I this book was my next one that's coming out in May 2023. It took two seconds, two minutes, we turned in a proposal on proposal and first 50 pages. What is that one? That one is titled What You Do To Me. And it is a Rolling Stone reporter who is on the hunt behind the story behind a famous love song. And it's a dual timeline 70s 90s. And I'm really excited about this one. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, but it's not but to end that it's not easy. And you know this yourself, you're going through it right now with your books and the ups and the downs and excitement. And it's never as great as it looks. It's never as bad as it looks. It's just it's the nature of the beast of this business. And I will tell anybody that wants to become an author that they just have to keep moving forward and just not giving up. Totally agree. And then look, one day you're Lisa Barr, our mutual friend who's in the door and she hits the bestseller list. Hit the York Times. Yes. New York Times. Amazing. I don't think I've ever well, that can't be true. It was one of the most excited I've ever been for a friend in my life. Was so excited for her. Well, it was also one of my closest friends to become a New York Times bestseller. But to see how Lisa worked so incredibly hard and to see the fruits of her labor, like that was just so satisfying to say. Yes. That's I mean, Yeah. It wasn't just like it didn't fall from the heavens. Was well,

[26:12]Zibby Owens: thank you. I can talk to you all day. I know.

[26:15]Rochelle B. Weinstein: I hope to see you again. I'll be in the Miami area in November nineteenth, twentieth for the Miami book fair. So I will see you. See you there. All right. Bye.

[26:27]Zibby Owens: Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram ZibbyOwens and momsdonthavetimetoreadbooks. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.