Meryl Wilsner, MISTAKES WERE MADE
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[1:13]Merrill Will's nerve is the author of mistakes were made a novel
[1:17]Merrill writes happily ever afters for queer folks who love women
[1:21]They are the author of something to talk about and mistakes were made born in Michigan
[1:25]Merrill lived in Portland, Oregon and Jackson
[1:27]Mississippi before returning to the mitten state some of Merrill's favorite things include all four seasons button-down shirts
[1:33]The way giraffes run and their wife
[1:36]Welcome, Merrill. Thank you so much for coming on mom's and have time to read books to discuss mistakes were made a novel
[1:42]Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here
[1:45]This was like the kind of book where I opened it up and I was like, okay
[1:51]We're going there
[1:53]I was like like yeah, I'm like sitting reading with my glasses like oh, okay
[2:00]There we very steamy we're getting
[2:03]Yeah, we as we like to say we start off with a bang. Yeah, I'm quite literally
[2:07]this book actually began as
[2:10]long long ago as fanfiction and it was just supposed to be a little steamy
[2:15]One short that first chapter was just the whole thing
[2:19]That was all that was gonna happen
[2:21]And I had friends sort of poking me like hey, what if what if other things happened in this and suddenly now I have a book
[2:28]Yeah, well, it's great. I mean, it's like well, why don't you tell listeners what your book is is about?
[2:35]Let's start there
[2:36]mistakes were made is about a college senior who has a one-night stand with an older stranger who she meets at a bar and
[2:44]The next morning she goes to breakfast with her best friend and her best friend's mom
[2:48]Who it turns out is the older stranger that she had the one-night stand with
[2:52]Obviously, that should be the end of it, but
[2:55]the what my friends poked me about to continue was
[2:59]Oh, what if what if she goes home and visits over what your break?
[3:02]So we sort of continue from there and yeah, it's it's definitely a high heat romance
[3:07]I think we've been calling it a ranch come oh, I like it
[3:11]I don't know that I've read a ranch come before, but maybe now I have to do this more of it
[3:16]I think I honestly think that Rosie Dana in the author of the roommate
[3:20]I think she sort of pioneered the term for for the roommate as well
[3:23]You know, it's a romcom, but sometimes when people hear romcom
[3:25]They think oh, you know low key just a cutesy book sort of thing and then so we want to be clear like nope
[3:31]It's high heat
[3:32]So do you get embarrassed you know get embarrassed like writing about sex and all that I did tell my mom
[3:37]She was not allowed to read this book. Okay, and you have already did not comply with that she is
[3:42]Oh my gosh, so I told her once I realized she wasn't gonna listen to me when I told her not to read it
[3:48]I said, okay, you can read it, but you can never speak to me about it
[3:52]Oh my gosh. That's what I have to say so like when I when I think about things like that or like with my first book
[4:00]Which was much much much lower heat. It was a slow burn with really one
[4:04]Sexy and my some of my mom's friends in a book club read that book
[4:09]Which was you know, okay fine if that book club reads the picture made. Yeah, I will be a little bit
[4:15]A little bit embarrassed in that regard, but but you know, I love to write it. I think it's a lot of fun
[4:20]So well to be honest
[4:22]It wasn't I mean, I'm I don't mean to mischaracterize it is like a complete like sex show
[4:27]I just you know
[4:28]There's a lot of heart to it too and even you know
[4:30]I'm a I'm a divorced mom who has to share custody and is dealing with kids who are you know
[4:35]away and
[4:37]You tapped into that too the like longing for kids missing kids
[4:42]Had to navigate divorce and you know, there's a lot in there. You packed in a lot. Yeah, thank you
[4:48]I definitely tried to it's strange because when I first wrote it
[4:53]I was closer in age to Cassie the college to that and through all various revisions and everything
[4:59]I'm now closer to Aaron the the older single mom and so that's that has been really I think
[5:05]Interesting. I think Cassie was probably a lot stronger in you know
[5:09]Sort of that first first draft long ago because that was more where where I was in life
[5:13]But yeah, I mean I I joke about
[5:16]How many sex scenes of has and how my mom's not allowed to read it and all of that but
[5:20]I do think that it does have a lot of heart. I certainly hope that it does and I think that a lot of romances like that
[5:26]I think a lot of times romance
[5:28]As a genre can be you know
[5:30]Justness does oh, this is trashy or these are just sexy books or whatever when so much of romance is
[5:38]Really, I know groundbreaking isn't the right word, but just sort of important and heartfelt and
[5:44]There's a lot more to
[5:47]To the books than if they were just sexy books while also at the same time
[5:51]If there's just sexy books. That's okay, too. I you know, I sort of I grew up with that that
[5:56]Being taught the literary elitism about romance and I'm glad to have moved past that and be at a point where I'm like
[6:04]If all it is is a sexy book. That's enough. You know, it's about entertaining people so
[6:09]But yeah, I do think that but this roommate has this book is not trashy that oh no
[6:14]I don't think Romeo. I think in general romance is not trashy, but I think that
[6:18]People are taught that a lot. I see yeah. Yeah
[6:21]Wait, so go back a little bit too
[6:24]So obviously you start a fan fiction
[6:27]Did you always like when did you start writing did you like when did you start and have you always been open about your sexuality and all that not that it's any of my business
[6:35]But just wondering
[6:37]When did I start writing mistakes were made or when did I start writing like in general in general okay? Yeah God when I was
[6:44]teeny tiny
[6:46]And third grade we did night rites every Tuesday and you were you know, we were given a prompt and we're supposed to write
[6:53]I don't remember anymore, but it was probably like
[6:56]One hand written page, you know, and I learned to type because I was writing so
[7:03]Such long
[7:05]Responses to these prompts. So you would be supposed to turn in one hander in page and I would turn in four single space type pages instead
[7:12]so I've sort of always been
[7:15]telling stories in that regard and
[7:18]I think in part because I was
[7:21]Raced to sort of look down on romance as a genre and I thought I wasn't supposed to you know
[7:28]Read or write that sort of thing. I think that's one of the reasons that I did get into fanfiction
[7:33]Is because I was absolutely writing and reading romantic fanfiction
[7:38]But I didn't have that sort of outside influence of like oh, this is not what you're supposed to be doing
[7:43]So I didn't really realize like oh, I'm I'm still in the romance genre just the fanfiction version of it
[7:49]And I that's where I really I think cut my teeth writing learned a ton
[7:55]Always made friends with you know
[7:57]Made friends with people who wrote better fix than I did and you know
[8:00]Sort of badger them about how much I love to their work until we became friends
[8:04]Some of who I'm I'm still friends with today
[8:07]And who still read my work and help me brainstorm and help me make everything better even now that I'm sort of you know moved on for the fanfiction world
[8:15]So yeah, so I I
[8:17]Really learned just so much by writing in fanfiction and then
[8:23]eventually
[8:24]Decided sort of after looking at
[8:27]the number of queer people in media especially queer women who aren't given happily ever afters
[8:34]that's really what pushed me into
[8:37]Focusing more I was always also writing original fiction
[8:40]But that's what pushed me more into focusing on it just because I recognized but you know
[8:46]This is something that's necessary and this is something that I can do and I want to do and like to do
[8:52]So that's where I I sort of shifted into focusing on original fiction and telling
[8:58]Halfway ever afters for I think as my bio says I think it's I write halfway ever afters for queer folks who love women
[9:06]Because you know originally I did you know
[9:10]I'm I'm not binary, but I miss I'm female birth
[9:14]I sort of grew up within the saffic community
[9:19]And that's that's what I thought I was in bright. You know happily ever afters between women
[9:24]But I have future books on the table that will also include non-binary characters and things like that
[9:29]So I've adjusted my my bio just a little bit
[9:34]To just be yeah happily ever afters for queer folks who love women because there's just
[9:38]Not enough of them. I think in media
[9:41]Love that wait what you've picked my interest in the next book. So what do you what what's coming next?
[9:47]The next book is still is still two female characters
[9:52]It is called cleat cute and
[9:56]Is between two soccer players who are both
[10:00]fighting for a spot on the roster for the United States and the World Cup, and they realized
[10:06]that cooperation may be better than competition both on the field and in the bedroom.
[10:13]Interesting! And then we next one after that, which I don't have nailed down yet. I do have a non-binary
[10:19]main character. Will be and it will be a, you know, oh, there was an unrefundable honeymoon that
[10:25]we have to go on together. It's a forced force proximity sort of, yeah. I want to try writing
[10:31]one of those. You're like, you're all stuck somewhere. Right? Yeah. There's a certain amount of time
[10:36]and you're all in same place. Like, I don't know. I think that would be fun to try. I like that
[10:40]outside pressure. Like somebody give me an assignment as opposed to the novel that I am writing,
[10:47]which is like, I wonder where I'm going to get? If I win. I understand that. Did you
[10:55]did you ever have trouble like selling this concept or did you find this very easy to sell?
[11:00]This book, the previous book, like, obviously it's so necessary in the market, and you've totally
[11:07]like hit the sweet spot. I'll stop making like, no, my mind isn't a bad place, but not a bad place,
[11:14]but you don't have it. Just yeah, an innuendo place. An innuendo place, yes. Let's say that.
[11:19]So did you ever like, did you get pushback? Did you know which publisher to pitch to? Did you
[11:24]have trouble getting an agent or was it like an easy process for you? So I with something to talk
[11:28]about, which was my first book. I did a program called Pitch Wars, which doesn't exist anymore,
[11:34]but it is a writing mentorship program and got paired up with a great mentor and went through
[11:40]that. That's how I got my first agent. But sort of all the way through that, you know, my mentor
[11:45]I have no caution is maybe the right word. The caution me of, you know, you might be, there might
[11:49]be less interests, just because that's the way that the romance world works and all of that.
[11:55]And something to talk about came out in 2020 through Berkeley. And it was actually Berkeley's
[12:00]first FF romance imprint. So it was, I don't want to say it was groundbreaking because obviously
[12:07]people have been writing queer romance forever for long before sort of mainstream publishing was
[12:12]paying attention. But it was their first FF romance imprint. And I didn't get pushback. You know,
[12:19]I didn't get pushback on it. I did get my agent. I did get a book seal. The book came out.
[12:24]But I sort of with mistakes were made. I feel like it's just such a different climate. You know,
[12:31]when something was talking about came out, I was desperate searching for other people who were
[12:37]writing FF and either getting or trying to get published, you know, by sort of, you know,
[12:43]the big five or whatever. Whereas now there's a lot of, a lot of us are at least a lot more of us.
[12:49]And so I think that in the time between something to talk about and mistakes were made,
[12:54]there has been a real growth of the community. And I think it's a strong community. I really,
[13:00]I like everybody in it. So that has been really hardening to see. And I hope that only
[13:06]continues to grow. Did you have any other titles that you were considering for this?
[13:13]So I, I lovingly referred to this book as the notebook. And I really tried to get,
[13:20]I spent a long time coming up with titles that would abbreviate into MILF. So I really push
[13:27]for make it last forever just so that I could abbreviate it to milk every time I talked about it.
[13:33]But I think mistakes were made as is the right to make for sure.
[13:37]You were vetoed on that. I wasn't vetoed. It was included in a variety of options. And everybody
[13:45]really liked mistakes were made. And I love, I love the title. It's just such a great thing.
[13:51]Is this going to be a movie, do you think? I would love it. Please tell Hollywood that.
[13:57]Right. It's like a total like, you know, in the olden days, let's her name, Meg Ryan type thing, but not
[14:05]I would not really for so. Or Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks, that's it. That's it. Yeah. I would love that.
[14:13]I would love to see that. I guess figures crossed. Yeah. It's great. I can see. I'm sure. I don't know.
[14:19]I think it's very visual the way you wrote it. You know, you can like see yourself in all these
[14:23]different scenes and restaurants and homes and, you know, even at the end with our little
[14:29]happy, happy ending of sorts. I won't. Yeah. I won't. Oh my gosh. There we go again.
[14:38]So when you're not writing, tell me about your life. Gosh, lately it's all writing because I
[14:45]am on that line for for a quick you. But when I'm not writing, I live with my wife in Michigan,
[14:51]we have a dog and a cat. We don't take our dog off out and up and give her enough exercise. So
[14:56]we're constantly trying to because she is just the ball of energy. But yeah, my mom lives on
[15:02]the shores of Lake Michigan. So we spend a lot of time at the beach, especially now it's the end
[15:07]of summer. I think I think I've probably swam in the lake for the for the last time this year,
[15:12]but love being outdoors and hanging out with my family. What's your book inspired at all by a
[15:18]particular mom of a friend of yours? It was not. I will say just in terms of a you also asking
[15:27]like could be a movie. The characters looks changed drastically once I realized that I could cast
[15:35]Colby Smolders who is from how I met your mother. She's Robin and how I met your mother.
[15:40]And once I realized I could cast her as Aaron in like a movie version, I leaned into that.
[15:46]I think as I went. But I think in the in the first round, she maybe had blonde hair. And I
[15:51]just switched everything up as soon as I realized that I could that I loved it. I loved to cast
[15:56]you know, actors or models or whatever in my mind as as my characters and go from there.
[16:02]That's smart. Well, it's neat. I love how you have like smart women, you know, like a doctor and
[16:08]you know what she's going to go or get NASA or something crazy. Like it's awesome. Like just letting
[16:14]passion out and like real feelings and whether it's, you know, what do you call it? F F or F and
[16:21]I don't even know that or it doesn't matter who it is, right? Like that raw energy coming out on the
[16:29]page. Really great. Really captivating. Thank you. Yeah. I what what I try to do. And I did this,
[16:36]you know, with something to talk about as well. I try to give sort of put different types of
[16:44]women on the page. I guess, you know, I don't there's not any one type of woman that I'm like,
[16:48]oh, this is the way to be. You know, oh, you have to be the strong female character or you have
[16:52]to be this or you have to be whatever. So just sort of exploring the characters and dynamics
[16:58]between characters of a whole bunch of different women. Amazing. Do you have any advice for aspiring
[17:05]authors? For aspiring authors, I always my sort of number one thing that I say is right the next
[17:12]book, especially I mean, at least if you are trying to write books and get into publishing,
[17:19]you're always going to have to write the next one, whether you are, you know, queer at a
[17:25]queering stage and you don't have an agent yet and you're sending out queries for a book,
[17:29]you're going to need another book to have a career at some point. So start writing the next one
[17:33]while you're sending queries. Or once you have an agent, you know, if you go out on submission to
[17:38]editors, you're going to have to have another book at some point. So rather than freaking out and
[17:43]being nervous about being on submission, write the next book. And so that that's my go to advice
[17:48]also for myself as well as as well as for aspiring writers of just any time that you're sort of
[17:54]foundering and feeling lost in anxiety or, you know, this great big world. Of course, be gentle
[18:00]with yourself. I'm not saying you have to produce all the time, but when you don't know what to do
[18:05]next, write in the next book. And I think often the way to go. Yes. We've been just trying to
[18:11]finish the one you're working on. That is where I am right now. Amazing. Merrill, thank you so
[18:19]much. Thank you for discussing mistakes were made and for the entertainment and thought for
[18:24]vokingness of the whole book. And yeah, it's awesome. I really wish you all the best. I'm excited
[18:30]for clique cute. And all your I'm going to follow all your titles forever. Because you have like
[18:35]all these it's great. Thank you so much. And thank you again for having me. That's a little chat.
[18:41]Yes. I was really glad to be here. You too. Okay. Bye. Thank you later.
[18:47]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books. Don't forget to
[18:51]follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books. Also sign up for
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[19:01]on zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[19:06]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.