Cassidy Lucas, THE LAST PARTY: A Novel

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[1:13]Cassidy Lucas is the author of the last party, a novel.

[1:16]Cassidy Lucas is the pen name of writing duo Julie Fiero and Kayleigh Wolfson-Widger.

[1:21]Fiero is the author of the novel's Cutting Teeth, praised by the New Yorker as a comically energetic debut,

[1:26]and the Gypsy Moth Summer, called Hugely Engaging by Francine Pros.

[1:30]Widger is the author of the novel's Real Happy Family and Mother of Invention, praised by Margaret Atwood as a pasty thriller,

[1:37]and was featured on NPR's Marketplace.

[1:39]Both Fiero and Woodger live in Santa Monica with their families.

[1:42]Their novel, Santa Monica, was published in 2020 and the last party as their second book together.

[1:47]Welcome, I'm here today with the duo behind Cassidy Lucas.

[1:51]I've been holding up air quotes for nobody to see.

[1:54]So I'll let them introduce themselves so you can recognize their voices as we talk about the last party.

[1:59]Welcome, but I'm Julia Fiero, one half of Cassidy Lucas.

[2:08]And this is my voice.

[2:11]You know, it's amazing, Cassidy is two voices in the real world,

[2:16]but hopefully in the book they meld into one.

[2:21]Shelly, do you want me to talk a little bit about my bio or just,

[2:24]Shelly's just going to say hello.

[2:26]Yeah, you go for, you go.

[2:28]Okay, this is me,

[2:44]Oh, and how did you get to hook up? How did you get together?

[2:47]You know, Cassidy Lucas coming up with the pen name was hard.

[2:52]You know, it was really, it was harder than coming up with a book title.

[2:57]You know, we just weren't.

[2:59]I don't think it was something that we ever really thought about individually.

[3:02]When we were publishing books on our own, you know, as our own verse given identities.

[3:10]Yeah.

[3:11]I like to book through our own individual names and then two as casts.

[3:15]Yeah.

[3:16]Go ahead.

[3:17]Oh, we were trying to think of something that had a so cow vibe.

[3:21]Yes.

[3:22]A breezy sounds.

[3:24]And like a little,

[3:25]inrogynous sounding, you know, and so,

[3:30]oh my gosh, we had such a crazy list and we couldn't agree on anything.

[3:35]And so then, Shelly, how do we come up with it?

[3:38]Well, and then we started combining our children's names sort of in every, every possible iteration.

[3:46]And some of those were ridiculous, but I have a daughter named Cassidy and Julia has a send name Luca.

[3:51]And so that was the pairing that ended up sticking.

[3:55]It was funny because two of our kids, when you combine their names, it sounds a lot like a romance.

[4:04]I agree.

[4:05]You know, there was like sesily towns.

[4:09]You know,

[4:11]not the right tone from the Abbey, you know.

[4:16]And how did the two of you were you friends?

[4:21]How did you get to know each other?

[4:22]And when did you decide to start writing books together and why?

[4:25]Like tell me about all that.

[4:27]Well, we've been friends for more than 20.

[4:30]Wait, no, sorry.

[4:31]About 20 years.

[4:32]Almost 20 years.

[4:34]Yeah.

[4:35]And we met very, you know, it was really a lucky meeting.

[4:41]I'd put an ad on Craigslist.

[4:44]No.

[4:45]Yeah.

[4:46]Great for a friend.

[4:47]No, I'm just joking.

[4:48]Even though I was kind of doing it to get friends.

[4:50]But for a workshop, a writer's workshop in my home.

[4:54]Because I don't know.

[4:56]I was, I just graduated from my MFA at Iowa.

[5:01]And I wanted to hang out with writers.

[5:04]But I was, I felt I didn't want to be part of the scene.

[5:07]I was nervous.

[5:08]You know.

[5:09]So I, I think it was my mom who was like, have a class in your home.

[5:14]And, and it was a real diverse group that showed up.

[5:17]You know, some people had no experience.

[5:19]But, you know,

[5:20]it was a really great place to show up.

[5:23]It was a great place to show up.

[5:25]And it was like this incredible writer.

[5:27]Poet.

[5:29]She was a poet, but, you know, had started writing fiction.

[5:31]And it was like a dream come true, you know.

[5:34]And so.

[5:35]She really want to take it from there.

[5:36]Yeah, no, that's it.

[5:37]I mean, I had just finished my MFA at the University of Montana,

[5:40]as Julia said in poetry,

[5:42]and was dabbling in writing fiction,

[5:44]but felt really shy about it.

[5:46]My, I guess boyfriend at the time.

[5:49]moved San Francisco to Brooklyn and I was just poking around on Craigslist looking for

[5:55]a writing workshop and Julia's came up and so I showed up with a short story and yeah we kind of

[6:03]quickly realized that we shared as Julia likes to say a reader's brain and really just had

[6:11]similar taste but also just similar ways of analyzing and interpreting fiction. So we often

[6:18]like our favorite emoji to exchanges is a brain. We really haven't been so happy.

[6:26]I mean now it's I know I'm very sentimental right now. Anyway there you have it. I don't know what

[6:31]it says about me that I don't think I've ever used a brain emoji. A few times I've used the

[6:34]light bulb emoji but oh we should switch to that. Anyway so gross and weird looking the little

[6:42]Jade's like dad one. Okay so you met on Craigslist and now fast forward to this book and how did

[6:49]we come up with these characters in this plot for the last party. Tell me. Well we had already written

[6:55]we had already published one book together as Cassidy Lucas Santa Monica which came out right in the

[7:02]heart of the pandemic and that book we got to work on a lot together in person so it was a completely

[7:11]different experience than writing the last party which we wrote you know in more miles. Not only

[7:18]a few miles or not even away from each other but we barely saw each other because of the quarantine

[7:24]and I do think that it's really special when you and I'm sure people I'm sure people who

[7:31]write understand this and but also people who just love to read you know who are in book clubs and

[7:38]book groups that when you find someone that you can communicate with and you can really share that

[7:45]like that very intimate experience of reading which is such a solo you know experience

[7:54]and that you can really communicate with somebody it's it's super special so you know we were able to

[7:59]come up for each of our books Santa Monica each of the Cassidy Lucas books and the last party

[8:06]we came up with a general plot pretty quickly but I think for both of us the the story

[8:14]that you know the action the drama all comes out from the characters so we really focused on

[8:19]giving up the characters so that each of us would kind of be in charge of two or sometimes three

[8:28]characters points of view and so we wrote in the beginning of each book we stuck to our

[8:34]characters and then you know got to know each other's characters so well that that we could

[8:40]write each other's characters as well and edit and sort of add to what the other so you know

[8:47]I feel like it that's necessary you know because if an author isn't each character deserves

[8:53]an author you know to be super invested in them and so that's how we did it and and it worked

[9:02]so well with regard to this this story itself I think we were the whole the whole Cassidy Lucas

[9:10]project began like a little bit on a whim you know we were like what if we tried writing like

[9:16]um you know psychological suspense together and so we did it and Santa Monica was not that far

[9:23]removed from the types of books that Julie and I have written individually but then with the last

[9:29]party we wanted to try and take it a little kind of a step further towards genre and we're both

[9:36]a big fan of the locked room you know the group weekend away that sort of you know plot trope

[9:44]and so we agreed that we wanted to play with that convention but we knew we also wanted to flip

[9:49]it on its head so that was kind of the overarching structure that we came up with and then as Julia

[9:56]said then we populate it with characters that we really care about

[10:00]and can invest in and work on separately and then together.

[10:03]The setting was a big deal for the last party.

[10:07]Have you ever been to Topanga?

[10:09]Okay.

[10:10]Yeah, I have a place in the Palisades.

[10:12]So I'm there.

[10:14]Yeah.

[10:15]We're like a very, yeah, I'm like a local.

[10:17]I know I was going to tell you about this book fair.

[10:20]I'm not sure when this is airing,

[10:21]but we're having, I'm having a book fair

[10:22]in the Palisades village on July 16th from 10 to 4.

[10:27]And you should come.

[10:28]And we'll be there.

[10:29]Yeah.

[10:30]I'll be there.

[10:31]I'm going to sell all the books that were in the back of my book

[10:33]ends that I mentioned throughout the book.

[10:35]So yeah, you'll have to come.

[10:37]That'll be fun.

[10:37]Lots of authors coming in.

[10:39]Yeah.

[10:40]OK.

[10:40]OK, I'll send you information after.

[10:42]OK, good.

[10:44]Yeah, because my kids love love.

[10:46]You know, now they're teenagers and having moved from Brooklyn.

[10:52]There's a lot happening in and around LA,

[10:55]but not as much.

[10:58]And I miss just picking up books off the stoops.

[11:03]But so we wanted to write about Topanga,

[11:06]because I mean, talk about a locked room.

[11:09]It's like such a hamed, unique, quirky.

[11:13]And yeah, very, it's a special place.

[11:17]And even just the atmosphere and the environment

[11:23]was so much fun to write about.

[11:24]I love writing about plants.

[11:26]And it was just, and it was, and also just the kinds

[11:30]of characters that you can create.

[11:35]And because the kinds of characters that exist in Topanga

[11:39]Canyon kind of sound like really off the sort of track

[11:46]people, which in LA, I think LA is so sprawling.

[11:51]But I think it's a really unique place.

[11:54]It was very fun to write about.

[11:55]And we both have friends who live there,

[11:57]so could do some research.

[11:59]And now I feel like I can't go back without being terrified.

[12:02]It's like, it's crazed man, like running towards my friends

[12:06]and me, and whatever else that happens.

[12:08]Quad or, you know, there's definitely people

[12:10]living camping in the woods and bobcats.

[12:16]Yeah, this is why I don't camp.

[12:17]I'm happy to stay in my house.

[12:19]I'm totally fine.

[12:20]I like, I barely like to leave my house as it is,

[12:22]but I'm certainly now not going and camping into Vegas.

[12:26]And she ate just a staunch anti camper about with nowhere.

[12:30]I don't even want to glam.

[12:31]I'm like, not even glamping.

[12:33]I'm not even glamping.

[12:34]There's nothing you can do.

[12:37]So you could see the idea of writing a book

[12:39]into paying a came about because my ford,

[12:43]my husband had my 40th birthday party at a kind of similar setting.

[12:51]And I'm so neurotic and fearful of everything that we're driving up

[12:58]into the canyon.

[12:59]And I'm like, whoa, where are we going?

[13:01]OK, yeah, sure.

[13:03]He's like, we're driving all the way to the top.

[13:07]And we get out and it was like this beautiful.

[13:10]I don't even know what, I mean, it was like an Airbnb,

[13:13]but all these different areas, there were like no railings.

[13:17]And so all night, I was like, this is fun, you know?

[13:22]And then we, you know,

[13:24]chilly and another two couples were there.

[13:27]And it was amazing.

[13:27]It was wonderful, so much fun.

[13:30]My husband, I spent the night there.

[13:32]And it was like outside, you know, the bathroom was like outside.

[13:36]It was just like a hole.

[13:38]And, you know, the coyotes were like either fighting or having sex.

[13:45]like all night, we could barely sleep.

[13:49]So yeah, you know, I was inspired.

[13:52]Yeah, so I thought to the setting.

[13:55]It was beautiful.

[13:56]The next morning, there were like hundreds of hummingbirds.

[13:59]I mean, it's a really just logistically beautiful place.

[14:03]I think that's the greatest thing about fiction.

[14:05]It's like all the stuff you worry about, at least for people

[14:09]like you and me, obviously, who worry about stuff all the time.

[14:11]And I'm always like leaping towards the worst thing.

[14:14]You know, it's like I take a fairy to shelter Island for like a beautiful thing.

[14:18]And I think everybody's like enjoying themselves.

[14:20]And in my head, I'm like, but where is the closest doctor?

[14:22]But what if this happens?

[14:23]But what if there's a line at the fairie?

[14:25]But what if I can't get it, it's a criticalist.

[14:27]But it's not ridiculous.

[14:29]And he turned into a novel because then you should get like, yeah,

[14:32]all these things are on it.

[14:34]Right.

[14:35]Yeah, everything is filled with, you know, the possibility of, you know, demise.

[14:42]Yeah.

[14:43]I totally agree.

[14:45]You know, at every moment, yes, it's crazy.

[14:48]Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't even have anything to say about that.

[14:51]It's just, it's just one of these things that you need to pursue.

[14:54]You're cursed with it or you are not.

[14:56]So like people who go on writing retreats, you know, in the middle of nowhere,

[15:02]I cannot do that.

[15:03]You know, like everyone's like, oh, that meant, you know, make doubt or wherever

[15:09]yada, like their own little cabin and the woods, like true woods.

[15:17]And I would probably have a nervous breakdown, you know, I love horror movies too.

[15:23]So I've watched, oh, like, urban nights, like stupid, clueless,

[15:28]urban nights go, you know, away for a rural weekend.

[15:33]And yeah, so I've ruined it for myself.

[15:36]But chalice, good at camping.

[15:38]Yeah.

[15:39]Hamps.

[15:41]Yeah.

[15:42]Yeah, but I mean, not really by choice, but I don't know what you're doing.

[15:51]Keeping a family ecosystem intact.

[15:53]Yeah, I understand.

[15:56]So after this book, when you're working on a book, do you know the next book that's coming?

[16:02]Like, do you already have the next book ready?

[16:04]Or with this like, okay, let's try this and then we'll pause for a little bit.

[16:08]We are after writing two books together in, I don't even know.

[16:15]It feels like it's been like a year, but it hasn't, but pretty quickly, you know,

[16:22]I think we have to take, we're taking a break to work on our own books.

[16:25]Okay.

[16:27]But, you know, Cassie might call us back to her for the right price.

[16:34]Cassidy will do anything.

[16:36]We had a front out of Southern California locations.

[16:41]So Zibi, we intended for this to be one off, just kind of a foray out of our,

[16:47]you know, individual careers and projects and then, and then our editor wanted, wanted two

[16:54]books and so going into my arm, I'll give you another book.

[16:58]Yeah, I know.

[16:59]Well, of course, you know, she was like, are you guys have anything else in the works?

[17:04]Because, you know, I, I'm thinking about that this would be nice to, to acquire as a pair.

[17:09]And so of course, as you do, we said, well, certainly we have another book in the works,

[17:15]you know, and then we quickly like,

[17:18]right now we're in our perfect case to meet up and like, bang out this, you know, three paragraph

[17:26]summary for the last party.

[17:28]So we had to write two books, but we did.

[17:31]And we thought Malibu and then we were like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[17:35]You know, maybe we'll do it again.

[17:37]I don't know.

[17:38]I think that, you know, as soon as we, you know, said the word to Penga, we were like,

[17:43]and plus we were there together at that place for my 40th.

[17:48]And so we had, it was a really remarkable space that this woman who was so independent

[17:55]and driven had created and that there was like probably literally not one part of this structure

[18:04]that was not a violation of some kind of like safety book, right?

[18:08]You know, so I feel like Twyla, who in the last party is the host of the Airbnb

[18:16]sort of, you know, property, the sprawling property in Penga.

[18:20]We both kind of knew her without even talking, you know, sharing her first.

[18:26]So I feel like the real heart of the story that a group of, you know, urban friends

[18:33]were reuniting for this 50th birthday party up into Penga.

[18:39]Which is a natural kind of choice, you know, because we had been those people,

[18:44]you know, younger, but it should be like canyon literary tours.

[18:50]You know, they do like maps of the stars tours, you know, because you could take

[18:53]that to Penga tour with the last party and then you could go to Laurel Canyon and there's so

[18:57]literature there and like stuff. Yeah. And there's new book and, you know,

[19:01]I just, they were going to eat all that because there's something kind of spooky about all canyons.

[19:05]Yeah. I lived in Laurel Canyon for a little bit and I was like scared out of my mind.

[19:08]But anyway, but I don't know. I think you should do or like a little package of novels about

[19:13]the canyons or I don't know. There's something fun in there.

[19:16]I'm in. I'm in. I'm in. Yeah.

[19:18]I mean, Canyon lit.

[19:20]Right. Well, the beauty here, I mean, because I've I've lived here

[19:25]six years, seven years and, you know, it's just a complete, it's like being in a different planet.

[19:32]Yeah. You know, then New York or anywhere on the East Coast and the beauty is like

[19:37]majestic in a way that is like, you know, awe inspiring, but also like, I remember even the

[19:43]first time I went to the beach and saw the Pacific Ocean, you know, it just feels immense,

[19:49]you know, it's just a different, it's a very different world and kind of natural beauty.

[19:54]And, you know, I mean, the fact that there's like bobcats and whatnot.

[20:00]But we're holding up into Panga, like my friend just said that they saw one, you know, just right there, like just staring at them.

[20:09]And people are with this easy choice to set into Panga, I think, yeah, where, where is your next party in life going to be.

[20:18]Well, we bought you said COVID so it's not going to be in quarantine because it took forever to get that negative test.

[20:26]Well, Charlie, would you like to? Well, what's our next party?

[20:31]Our next like literary party party party party.

[20:36]I'm moving actually. I'm leaving LA. I've been here for 13 years and it was quarantine era.

[20:45]Brainstorm that led to us moving to Santa Barbara. It's not like a matter.

[20:51]Yeah, so everyone's like, yeah, I don't, you'll be fine.

[20:56]Yeah, we're moving, actually, we're moving to like the northern tip of Santa Barbara to glida to an area that feels kind of rural to me.

[21:04]And I'm very excited about it because I can ride horses and I live about half a block from Lincoln Boulevard here in Santa Monica, which is, you know, not super charming.

[21:15]Oh, so yeah, so we're, we're out in a couple of weeks. So going away party. Yeah, so right. So the going away party first the moving party and then going away party of some sort and yeah.

[21:27]I'm kind of sad about it, but also happy for chilly.

[21:32]We did both by our first homes. So like, that's a big, that's wonderful.

[21:41]Something that I think maybe neither of us thought would ever happen. So that's a big.

[21:46]I'm really enjoying taking care of my house. You know, like, I'm real home body.

[21:52]But I do have these books that I've kind of been waiting till I was grown up enough to write.

[22:03]And I think 46 is the time. And you know, there's material, at least for me, then even at a young age, like when I was in high school college, I was like, Oh, you're not ready to touch that, you know, and so I am working on that.

[22:22]What do you mean? How come? Well, like my dad's story growing up in the Italy during World War two.

[22:29]You know, it's like such precious material that I just want to do.

[22:37]I felt like I knew I wanted to do it justice in a way that I had to have experience, you know, knowing how to write a story, you know, in life, you know, I think the mid 40s is the perfect time to write.

[22:49]I think they should be like happy 40th birthday get ready. You are going to publish a book in the next five 10 years.

[22:57]Good luck. I mean, I wasn't, I feel like I, you know, I didn't publish until I was.

[23:03]Oh, my God, I don't even know 37 35.

[23:10]So, I had to really, you know, grow up and live some life to have enough wisdom to really know what people are actually like and so I'm excited to work on that.

[23:22]I feel like the work that Shelley and I've done together through Cassidy Lucas, you know, kind of like tiptoeing a little into genre, you know, you know, it's still pretty literary, but you know, I want to write this story of this historical novel about the liberation of Southern Italy during World War two with like a little bit of like a horror magical realism, like a dance labyrinth, but maybe not a scary.

[23:52]So I have this book in my head.

[23:56]But, you know, got to get, I got to get it all out, you know, but it just, it's been sitting for a while.

[24:06]You know, I think writing together as Cassidy Lucas has, even though we do need to attend to our individual next parties process has really made me a much stronger writer in that I think Julie and I both have kind of our natural strengths.

[24:29]comfortable working in dramatized scene.

[24:34]As an action and dialogue and that stuff and Julia is extremely gifted in exposition, thought emotion like proceeds for interior interiority.

[24:52]And so we've been able to indulge those strengths in the sections of the book that need it and then go into each other's sections.

[25:03]And, you know, in my sections, for example, Julia will add thought and reaction and some backstory like add the depth to my scene and then I can go into her characters.

[25:17]And I think it's been a lot of thoughts and like revelations and really like deep historical work and grounded in scenes.

[25:24]So, so just been a really interesting exercise that balance.

[25:29]Yeah.

[25:30]And no, I agree.

[25:31]You can't.

[25:32]This has been so fun.

[25:33]I'm sorry.

[25:34]I didn't agree with you that mid 40s are like golden for writing and I am working on a nonfiction memoir leading leaning project that I could never do until now.

[25:44]Okay.

[25:45]Well, I hope you feel better, Kayleigh and it was really nice to meet both of you and hopefully I'll see you in a couple weeks.

[25:50]I'll send you the information.

[25:51]Yeah, six days.

[25:52]Absolutely.

[25:53]Okay.

[25:54]Feel better.

[25:55]Feel better.

[25:56]Thank you.

[25:57]Bye.

[25:58]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

[26:01]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

[26:06]I'll also sign up for my newsletter at zibi Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.

[26:13]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.

[26:17]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.