Jenny Mollen, DICTATOR LUNCHES: Inspired Meals That Will Compel Even the Toughest of (Tyrants) Children
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[1:28]Jenny Mullin is the author of dictator lunches, inspired meals that will compel even the toughest of tyrants.
[1:35]And then she crosses that out and says, children.
[1:38]Jenny Mullin is a writer, actor, Instagram personality, and the New York Times' best-selling author of the essay collections.
[1:44]I like you just the way I am, and live fast, die hot.
[1:48]In digital series, I like you just the way I am, which she wrote and in which she stars currently streams on ABC digital.
[1:54]Harold did by the Huffington Post as one of the funniest women on both Twitter and Instagram, and named one of five to follow by Team magazine.
[2:02]Jenny currently writes a column for parents magazine and has contributed to cosmopolitan glamour, Elle, New York, Grubhub, and Playboy online.
[2:09]She has been a recurring co-host on the Wendy Williams show and regularly appears on GMA today in Rachel Ray.
[2:15]She's also the author of City of Likes, which came out this summer.
[2:18]And she and I did a really fun launch event together, which was wonderful and amazing.
[2:23]And I just really adore her.
[2:25]She also was kind enough to have me on her podcast called The Third Wheel.
[2:30]And Kyle and I, my husband, Kyle and I, went on her show, which she was kind enough to interview us for.
[2:35]And it reviews lots of really interesting couples, so you should definitely check out The Third Wheel as well.
[2:40]Welcome, Jenny. Thanks for coming on momstone. I'm time to read books to discuss dictator lunches. I can't believe we're back here already. I feel like I just released your last episode about city of likes and everything amazing.
[2:52]I know I'm thrilled to have another excuse to get on your podcast.
[2:56]Seriously, we should just be doing this every couple months. You know, let's try to snore in and get some face time with you.
[3:05]Salaboos.
[3:06]Yes.
[3:07]Yes.
[3:08]Okay, dictator lunches. I loved your introduction all about like your mom and your, you were like, you said something funny like for anyone else, who's parents for either not available or dating at night.
[3:20]That was exactly work days and dated night.
[3:23]Yes, they worked days and dated at night. I was like, so that obviously goes back to your amazing childhood, which you've written about.
[3:31]As you know, I love the memories that you wrote about your childhood. And the fact that you ended up making these ridiculously amazing things. I know you said you're trying, you're not trying to shame other parents, but like, oh my gosh, how are you doing this?
[3:45]Oh my god. Yeah, I think it's just because food, you know food is my love language. So for me, the making a lunches is it's just it's such a, it's a fun activity and it's also a way to communicate with them.
[3:59]You should have my guilt. It's a way for me to sort of be with them when I'm not with them.
[4:04]It's, you know, I'm able to kind of have a dialogue with them when they are off at school and they're, you know, to kind of give them this sense of constancy that I, as you know, did not have in my life.
[4:16]So, you know, for me, it's really been all about the food and there are so many other ways that I'm failing as a mom.
[4:21]So I feel like anybody who could, there's no way anybody who knows me in real life could think that I would be shaming them because that they, those people know what a hot mess I am.
[4:31]But yeah, I have to put, make it clear from the, from the jump that like, I know, I know, I can make these lunches you can too.
[4:44]So for listeners who do not have dictator lunches in front of them, let me just say that this is a beautifully photographed book with recipes, pictures, little tips and just massive inspiration.
[4:58]What I was not expecting is how international the cuisine in your lunch boxes is, so you have everything from an Israeli day to the Mediterranean to Korean food, your kids eat all this stuff, my kids eat nothing.
[5:12]Yeah, you know, we've always been Jason's just, you know, an insane foodie, but he didn't grow up that way.
[5:18]You know, what remained lettuce was until he was probably 22, 23 years old.
[5:23]But then he got famous and he'll got a little bit of money started eating better, I guess I don't know what happened to him.
[5:29]But yeah, so he's, he's obsessed with food and has always been all about, you know, we have to push the envelope.
[5:35]We have to make sure our kids eat everything.
[5:37]We want to make sure that they appreciate other cultures and, you know, aren't always ordering off the kids menu.
[5:44]And so that was super important to Jason and I grew up in a family where nutrition and exercise and all of, you know, all of the things, all of the pros and cons that come with that, we, you know, that was my childhood.
[5:58]So together we decided we're going to raise these kids eating like their adults.
[6:04]And as long as we kept a poker face, especially when Sid was younger, he didn't really know any better.
[6:09]He was eating, you know, Guatemalan papusas and like, you know, zucchini pasta.
[6:15]He didn't really have a clue.
[6:17]I remember I had this brilliant idea when I was when he was a baby.
[6:21]I was like, what if we just took a date and put it in a KitKat rapper?
[6:27]Would he really know the difference because he's never had a KitKat?
[6:30]And forever.
[6:31]I was like, I'm a genius.
[6:32]This is genius.
[6:33]And the minute I gave him to my sister's kid, he's like, this is a goddamn date.
[6:38]Okay.
[6:39]So only our child.
[6:41]But now I mean, you know, it's backfired in some ways because now he'll go to certain people's houses.
[6:46]And my sister called me and she's like, Jenny.
[6:49]She's like, he asked me if he could keep the Dorito package.
[6:53]And I said, it's Sam.
[6:56]This kid has like Mr. Softie like every other day.
[6:59]He's not deprived.
[7:00]He's just a hoarder.
[7:01]I think you're looking about.
[7:05]So, you know, I've had to now it's all about just like intuitive eating.
[7:10]And now that he's eight and a half, it's like, he really, he eats everything.
[7:15]He likes so many different things that like, I don't feel like I need to.
[7:20]I mean, it's called dictator lunches, not because I'm the dictator.
[7:23]He's the one who's giving me the thumbs up or thumbs down.
[7:25]So I'm just like pervaying.
[7:27]And he kind of like picks and chooses some days better than others.
[7:32]I, you know, I, I feel like with my older kids, I gave them all sorts of food when they were little similarly.
[7:39]Like, let's just pretend that this is all they're everything.
[7:42]And they'll like it, you know, like what if they had been born and some other country.
[7:46]This is what they would eat, right?
[7:47]Like, how are they to know?
[7:49]But I feel like they got to a certain age and we're like, no, thanks.
[7:54]Like we're not eating this. So I don't want it to run.
[7:57]But I, you know, even now we have like all this wonderful healthy food, but they don't take it.
[8:02]They don't eat it.
[8:03]They'll put it on their plate and they don't eat it.
[8:05]I can't like force it down their throats.
[8:07]See, I'm, I would like sometimes I think that it's like, that's why I love not being around because I think that lunch is such an interesting time to sort of wage war.
[8:19]Because we are out of the dynamic.
[8:21]There's a power struggle that goes on at home where it's like, I'm not going to eat a brussel sprout.
[8:25]And then, you know, one day I came home.
[8:26]We had a brussel sprout.
[8:27]I was like, I had one.
[8:28]Don't tell anybody.
[8:29]I feel you.
[8:30]If you tell anybody what I liked it.
[8:31]So, you know, it's interesting that I think that oftentimes, you know, again, food equals love and there's so much other stuff attached to the food.
[8:40]But when the parent is around, the dynamic changes.
[8:44]And, but lunch is a fun time to sort of experiment and say like, okay, if you're hungry enough, if you did throw that tantrum of breakfast and refuse the oatmeal I gave you.
[8:53]How hungry do you have to be to try this quinoa pasta or whatever.
[8:59]You know, maybe, well, your kids are, well, anyway, this is not a wrong one.
[9:03]The younger one like throws shit, you know, like he's definitely, he's a harder style.
[9:08]Yeah, he's a harder sell for me.
[9:10]But then the thing he does like or odd.
[9:12]But your level of creativity with these lunches.
[9:15]I mean, are you literally doing these every day?
[9:17]How often are you making the lunches?
[9:19]And are you doing it all yourself?
[9:21]Like, really?
[9:22]Yeah, but I oftentimes, there's a lot of leftovers.
[9:25]So it's like the pasta will usually be like, what did we have for general last line?
[9:29]I'm throwing that in.
[9:30]Okay, we have like leftover barbouto chicken that's getting recycled and, you know, put into a pita.
[9:36]So it's more curation than it is a lot of prep most of the time.
[9:42]But I have so much fun doing it.
[9:45]For me, it's, I'm a storyteller.
[9:47]So I love, like, coming up with the story.
[9:49]And since I don't know how to turn the TV on in my house, there is some downtime after the kids are asleep where I'm sort of lost.
[9:55]And that's usually when I kind of get into it.
[9:58]Wow.
[9:59]Yeah.
[10:00]There was you have two different versions of a polar bear, which I noticed because my one of my kids like a real affinity for
[10:07]And you had one with a bunch of like black lentils or black beans or something in the middle and then one was just like all like sushi risers and think
[10:15]Tell me about like do you go for a given shape or a given animal or you're just like oh, this would be a perfect whatever like
[10:21]Here how do you come up with all of these things and even there's one with teeth. What was the one with teeth like an apple?
[10:29]I'm thinking about this. This is amazing
[10:33]Well, you know some of it is just like
[10:36]I'll go online and I look at these like bento artists these like Japanese bento artists and see this stuff
[10:42]They're doing and think I'll never be able to do that
[10:43]But what is like the Jenny like hack version of that and that's where I found like the pokeball made out of the baby belt
[10:51]Which I found like to be like such that was a real crowd pleaser
[10:55]Trying to like win my son over you know on some level. I'm just like I want all your friends to tell you like
[11:03]how rad I am
[11:06]Sorry about what other kids think about you as a mom. This is
[11:10]I'm trying to you are seeking kids plan. Yeah, that's the approval. I need that. Like that's what I want to do is like the next generation
[11:18]Forget forget them like Instagram followers. I want the kids
[11:21]I'm grooming my future audience here. We've got a society. Yeah, I need to stay relevant. Otherwise. They're gonna put me in a home
[11:30]So that's what I'm on to no one then. I'll just find little like I'll go on Amazon and search rice molds and it's just kind of whatever comes up
[11:39]Wow, I have never seen that I didn't go into searching for the pandas. They just found me
[11:46]But then what do you do for your own food my own? Well, I'm usually eating whatever the leftovers are
[11:51]I'm usually eating whatever scraps that didn't make it into the lunch box also I
[11:57]Well, you know like up for me. I'm one of those people who like I can't wait till dinner time
[12:02]I'm eating as I'm cooking so by the time I've played it stuff. I'm so full and my friends actually hate it
[12:09]My my girlfriend my best friend in LA alley tells the story of like the first time Jason came over to have dinner with me
[12:16]I was living in this the this apartment across from Fox and like he go in I don't know where we're really hills and
[12:25]This she said I basically took a frozen bag of shrimp from Costco
[12:30]So ruin on the outside barbecue by the pool and then for 15 each one as they were ready
[12:36]Before even got there
[12:38]So like that's sort of still my method of cooking
[12:43]I just do kids now
[12:45]I save a couple shrimp for the kids
[12:48]Oh my gosh. Yeah, I just I have trouble cooking is the one thing that I
[12:54]Cannot sort of fit into my crazy life like I'm very lucky that Kyle my husband cooks and he loves to do that and
[13:01]Sometimes we have someone help because I can't
[13:03]I'm not good at cooking. I get very stressed about it. It takes so much time
[13:08]I'm like something else is better this than I am like I have to use my time this night
[13:13]But you seem to be able to do all things
[13:16]No, I love giving somebody else my recipe like I
[13:19]Will have my nanny still be I'll be like will you make the coconut rice tonight and then it'll just be there when I get home
[13:25]So I know I love doing that. I love being able to my girlfriend Joce always says she's like, you know
[13:31]The meal was made by my wife, but it was inspired by me
[13:38]It's perfect because Jason's a far better cook than I am I mean Jason could have a restaurant
[13:43]He is such an amazing
[13:45]He's just very detail oriented, which I am not so I love giving him one of my recipes and saying make this for me
[13:52]But sometimes he's like if you won't let me have a butter in it
[13:55]Then I'm not gonna say that it's my recipe
[13:57]So he gets to be he's he's pretty particular about the ingredients he uses
[14:02]That's why it's better to still be able to do it
[14:05]So for the average mom at home or whatever who's trying to make a lunchbox
[14:11]Just take it up a notch. Maybe they're not at your level of creativity quite yet or you know
[14:16]They don't have
[14:18]Left over Korean food because I haven't ordered it to begin with or whatever
[14:21]How can you make lunch a little better like then
[14:26]Throwing in some cucumber mix and maybe like a bagel or you know like what can what can people do with like the resources that they have
[14:36]Okay, so there's so many easy hack one of the things I love to do is I take a benedrill syringe
[14:41]Okay, everyone has a random benedrill syringe
[14:44]You're getting your kids benedrill that is the answer that I
[14:49]That is the key so you take a benedrill syringe or any syringe and then you take
[14:54]Let's take like a you know a thing of yogurt plain yogurt
[14:57]You what do you call it?
[14:58]You pipe the pipe the yogurt in into the little syringe and then you can just fill a little raspberries
[15:02]And you have these little tiny raspberry parfays you can throw either a piece of granola on top or like a chocolate chip on top
[15:09]They look so cute
[15:10]And then you're getting a little bit of protein. You can pop the raspberry into your mouth. You don't need to send a spoon
[15:15]It's not a giant mess with the yogurt
[15:18]But it's just like fun. It looks cute and my kids go crazy for it
[15:22]They think it's like, you know candy
[15:24]So that's a really fun one. I also love I just posted about this
[15:29]Everybody thinks they can't send avocados anywhere because they will brown immediately
[15:34]But if you cover the top of the avocado in either seeds you can use
[15:39]Sesame seeds you can use
[15:42]Be pollen I sometimes use hemp seeds whatever you want you just cover the top
[15:47]Once you scoop into it. It's like it's as green as ever
[15:50]You can't the oxidation doesn't have a taste to it. It just looks terrible
[15:55]So if you hide that
[15:57]Even from yourself you're sending you know taking a salad to to work with you. It's just like a great easy hack
[16:03]That's a good things like that. There's a lot of stuff that you know
[16:06]I don't know why I've just sort of stumbled upon and thought to myself. Okay, I'm gonna
[16:11]Adop that it's nothing that I'm not like reinventing the wheel or anything
[16:17]Oh, I think it's amazing. I'm gonna totally try the raspberry chick. I'm not even sure the razberries are fun
[16:22]Yeah, you know what else is so easy that I always thought was so difficult are these
[16:26]Sort of like the Vietnamese spring rolls. It's that rice paper and you'll get it and it looks so hard and intimidating
[16:32]But once it's wet, it's just like a giant like almost looks like a sheet mask made of glue
[16:37]So anything you've stuck inside unlike a burrito that falls apart on me immediately
[16:41]It just sticks to it. So that's just like what do you put it? Heaven
[16:46]I'll put like I'll put in like leftover roasted sweet potatoes. I'll put in some like you know
[16:52]Cale salad if I have it. I'll put in like either like almond butter for myself or like you know
[16:57]I'm sending it to school usually like a tahini
[17:00]You know hummus whatever, but it's it's an easy quick
[17:05]It's it's honestly like easier than like sitting there trying to like
[17:09]Roll up. Yeah, little you know, I see people doing these little pinwheels with the yeah, maybe let and I'm like how does that stay together? Yeah?
[17:17]Yeah
[17:22]Exactly, you're right, you're right
[17:24]What was the process like putting this whole cookbook together? Not even quickly. Yeah, well. Oh my god
[17:30]It is so different than writing a novel the novel was so insular and I was so
[17:37]Just like I micromanaged the shit out of it. I mean it really was every single word
[17:43]Was me and where do I want it and and that doesn't sound like me
[17:47]We have to change that sentence. You know things I just couldn't
[17:51]Not control it even though I'm fine cutting stuff. I'm not like precious about things
[17:57]I'm actually like quick to like delete pages and pages
[18:01]But with the novel it was like it needed to be my
[18:05]My vision and with the cookbook. It's so many other people. There are so many people involved
[18:10]I had a recipe developer. I had a food stylist Monica. I had Lauren who's like the most incredible
[18:17]Photographer I've ever worked with. I had this woman mave who did all the prop styling
[18:23]It's I had Makayla who's like a chef that I work with that you know helped me sort of retest things and this woman Michelle
[18:30]Intenicy who what you know would call me and be like we
[18:34]Peas with mint. Peas with mint. I'm telling you. Peas with mint. It's so it was just much more collaborative
[18:41]It was a totally different
[18:43]Experience. I mean I feel like this is my book, but it's also their book. It's not really just me. Yeah, but you still have your voice
[18:49]It's all it feels very you and all the yes
[18:52]Yes, but I also threw that part together like I feel like that was just me like
[18:57]Talking to a girlfriend in an email. Yeah
[18:59]In this like laboring over like you know chapter after chapter of something that had to sustain for 300 words
[19:09]I mean this is so cool because you've done memoir. You've done fiction. You've done cookbooks like
[19:14]What is your children's book? Are you gonna do a children's book? I thought it would I mean you tell me
[19:18]I think that should be your next thing, right? That's that would be easy. That wouldn't take you long
[19:24]This is fun. How do you find it? How do I? How do you find what to write about?
[19:29]Well, how do you how did you find doing children's?
[19:32]I I thought it was great. I for whatever reason. I wasn't expecting on on my events to like literally be talking to like babies
[19:43]It was very humbling. I'm like here, you know, I'm like on the floor. I was like they're this is crazy
[19:48]But I'm dying. That's hysterical. That is really funny
[19:53]I can't believe this is about doing it like four o'clock on like a Thursday
[19:56]It's been like see I love reading to kids
[20:00]I mean, I read to my own kids all the time.
[20:01]I love that, you know.
[20:02]I just, I'm like, yeah, you know, yeah, I get that.
[20:04]I just, I couldn't, I'm like, if I could just keep
[20:06]their attention for two seconds, you know,
[20:08]but this line was geared to like three to six year old.
[20:11]So I would maybe you do a little older or something,
[20:13]but I thought it was fun.
[20:14]I think you should do it.
[20:15]Especially with the lunches thing.
[20:16]I feel like that could so easily be translated somehow
[20:19]into a book right about the, I don't know.
[20:21]I just feel like you put yourself in there
[20:24]and like the mom making the lunches,
[20:25]and I don't know, maybe the lunches like come to life
[20:27]and the little panned bears, like, I don't know.
[20:30]I feel like you can put in that much lunches there, right?
[20:33]I don't know.
[20:33]Oh my God.
[20:35]Well, I always think of that movie
[20:37]and I was talking about it in the book,
[20:39]like the reason I don't own a food processor
[20:41]is because I saw that movie pulse in the 80s.
[20:43]We're like, all of the, all of the like appliances
[20:46]come to life and try to kill Joy Lawrence.
[20:48]It's like, let's be here.
[20:50]So we've been right the children's,
[20:52]the children's version of pulse.
[20:54]Yeah.
[20:55]That might, there might be it.
[20:57]There might be an infirmity there.
[20:59]There's that guy who does all the creepy carrots,
[21:01]books, creepy carrots, underwear, and all that.
[21:03]I feel like you could like team up with a creepy lunchbox
[21:06]or something.
[21:07]Oh, you just team up with them.
[21:08]You said, that'd be funny.
[21:11]Okay, so if you're not, assuming you're not doing
[21:14]the kid's books ASAP, you must have more stuff down the line
[21:18]aside from the dictator lunches.
[21:20]Tell me, what is your next year?
[21:22]Where am I gonna see you on Instagram?
[21:23]Like what's going on?
[21:24]Okay.
[21:25]So I'm about to pitch the, you know, I sold the city of
[21:29]likes to Sony.
[21:30]So I'm about to do the pilot for that.
[21:34]I'm taking that out right now or in two weeks, I guess.
[21:39]And then I mean, I have to kind of like see what happens
[21:43]there, I guess.
[21:45]I owe them a script.
[21:46]And then I don't know.
[21:47]I want to do another memoir to be honest.
[21:50]I just need to figure out how I'm going to do it in terms
[21:54]of just like the kids, you know, the kids and, and have
[21:57]why, how am I not totally going to just exploit them?
[22:05]You should.
[22:05]I love how you write about your life.
[22:06]I mean, I love the memoir too, but I mean, the novel too,
[22:11]but the way you write about your life is just so, I mean,
[22:13]I told you, I like never laughed more ever reading.
[22:16]That is so, I'm so flattered.
[22:18]That is so sweet.
[22:19]You're so funny.
[22:20]Okay.
[22:20]So what advice do you have to anybody trying to, well,
[22:25]let's just go to the back to the food again, to some
[22:27]mind about to make lunch today?
[22:29]What should they do?
[22:30]What do you, what do you got?
[22:33]So today, if you're making lunch today, I would say,
[22:37]let's pretend you're in New York City.
[22:39]I'm in Bangkok, so I don't really know what I would have
[22:41]access to.
[22:42]I'm currently, but if I were in New York City today,
[22:45]I would probably be making, I'd make like a big,
[22:50]I'd make some sort of like watermelon, maybe like a
[22:53]watermelon feta situation just because summer I want to
[22:56]like savor those moments before it's full blown fall.
[23:01]But then of course I get into pumpkin season, which is my
[23:05]favorite season.
[23:05]I'm obsessed with anything pumpkin.
[23:07]But not like pumpkin latte.
[23:09]I mean more like kabocha pumpkin, like a pumpkin soup
[23:12]situation.
[23:13]So if I was for New York today, I'd do like a watermelon
[23:16]feta salad.
[23:16]And then I'd probably force Jason to barbecue some chicken
[23:19]since I don't know how to barbecue.
[23:21]And maybe I would do, I'd like to, I would probably would
[23:26]start my day because I haven't had this in a while.
[23:28]I would do like, I would do a nut milk, I'd make a homemade
[23:32]nut milk, which I find to be actually so much easier than
[23:35]people let on.
[23:35]All you do is suck soap nuts overnight in a bowl in the
[23:41]morning, blend them, like just do cashews.
[23:43]You don't need to even use like a strainer.
[23:46]You do cashews and hemp seeds.
[23:48]And so make myself like a really big latte.
[23:51]That sounds awesome.
[23:52]Wow.
[23:53]I think you might, let me might go too.
[23:55]I love it.
[23:56]Jenny, thank you.
[23:57]I'm so excited to keep following your adventures on
[24:00]Instagram and through all your amazing books.
[24:02]That's busy.
[24:03]And yeah, this has been, you know, this whole thing,
[24:07]part, get all this stuff.
[24:08]One of the highlights is meeting people and like connecting
[24:11]and I don't know.
[24:12]This is such a great example of one of those wonderful
[24:14]connections.
[24:15]Like I came out of it.
[24:16]Yes.
[24:17]Yes, I agree.
[24:18]I'm so honored.
[24:19]I'm so cluttered that you had to be on again.
[24:21]Oh, please.
[24:22]All right.
[24:22]Well, congratulations.
[24:23]And thank you.
[24:25]Bye, Bangkok.
[24:26]Thank you.
[24:27]Enjoy the rest of your day.
[24:28]OK.
[24:29]Bye, Jenny.
[24:30]Bye.
[24:32]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[24:34]to Read Books.
[24:35]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zibi Owens,
[24:38]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[24:40]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com
[24:43]and sign up for my virtual book club.
[24:45]And meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[24:47]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[24:49]in fact, Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[24:51]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[24:53]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.