Jamie Brenner, GILT
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[1:53]At the George Washington University, she moved to New York City to work at HarperCollins Publishers Barnes and Noble.com and Vogue.com before becoming an author.
[2:01]Today, she spends her summers visiting the beach dance that inspire her novels.
[2:05]Welcome, Jamie. Thank you so much for coming on.
[2:08]I'm starting to have time to read Vex to discuss guilt.
[2:11]Great to be back Zivi.
[2:13]This is our, we've spoken a few times now. This is becoming, you know, I don't know what I would do without this as part of a book publishing routine.
[2:23]I think you've done more books than like anybody else. I mean, it's, I mean, is this the fourth time?
[2:30]So drawing him summer, no, did you come on for summer long? You came on for blush? What else?
[2:35]I don't even know.
[2:37]It's been a lot. And I love it. I love it.
[2:40]It feels like, officially, it feels like book tour now. So thank you.
[2:44]By the way, I should clarify for people listening. This is guilt, not like Jewish mom guilt, but like GILT, GILT, like jewelry that this does take place about and tell listeners Jamie about the plot of this book and did you model this after Tiffany's or Cartier or like what were you thinking telling the whole story?
[3:03]So GILT is the story of a family like Cartier or Tiffany that made their fortune selling diamond engagement rings. They essentially invented the market of diamond engagement rings.
[3:16]And yet all the daughters and the family three sisters are tragically unlucky in love.
[3:22]And when the book begins, one of the daughters estranged daughter returned to the fold to reclaim what she believed should be her birthright a 30 carat King diamond called the electric rose.
[3:36]And it was this diamond that divided the family in the first place. So that's the premise of GILT.
[3:42]And it's partly based on, you know, the traditional diamond industry as we knew it growing up, Tiffany's the beers a diamond is forever.
[3:53]But what really made me want to write the book is a much more contemporary take on jewelry and it's a designer named Lulu Frost.
[4:03]And Lulu Frost is woman named Lisa Salzer and she collects and teats and tokens and turns them into beautiful charms and jewelry.
[4:15]And I just love the idea of jewelry that has real meaning behind it and history and not just like how big is your diamond ring.
[4:24]So it was the contrast between those two like jewelry values that gave me the story and attention in the book so cool.
[4:33]And Gemma, the niece of this fam, the niece of well, I guess the grand daughter right but the niece right technically grand daughter.
[4:41]So she wins this whole big award at school about her jewelry design and of course she's naturally gifted in this new way that you're talking about.
[4:49]And when the book opens you have her sneaking into the what in my head looks like the Tiffany star in 57th Street.
[4:57]Right that's like, yeah, I was picturing that and she's walking in sort of snuck in as like a pret undercover press person.
[5:05]And then raises the question what happened to this one missing diamond that is not in the collection and everybody's hackles sort of go up and people get excited and the auction here.
[5:15]The auction has, you know, follows up with her and wants to know, you know, what is this?
[5:20]And of course it cracks up in this story, but I feel like right from the beginning you have literally face to face the old school like.
[5:29]You know, old school jewelry jewelry with new school like right there.
[5:33]Anyway, so visual, I feel like I just watched the movie.
[5:36]Thank you. Yeah, exactly. So she does this third generation.
[5:40]I mean, technically she's like six generation for narrative purposes third generation young woman.
[5:46]You know, she's been estranged from the family, but she has a gift. She's a creative. She's an artist.
[5:52]She wants to be a jewelry designer. She is a jewelry designer.
[5:56]But, you know, part of it is a generational thing, you know, who's buying jewelry today? How are we selling jewelry?
[6:02]You know, Instagram is like a whole new you don't need a store on Fifth Avenue.
[6:07]But what I really wanted to get into was, you know, in my research, I read about how diamond rings were only a thing starting 80 years ago.
[6:17]They're basically the same shocked to read that. I didn't know the shock to like we've had microwave ovens as long as diamond engagement rings have been important in our culture.
[6:27]It was absolutely a marketing ploy, a brilliant one by the beers to move lots of these stones that just aren't inherently valuable. I mean emerald with the original gem from from antiquity up until like 200 years ago that people really coveted.
[6:44]The whole four seas, the color cut clarity, made up so that people who couldn't afford big stones could at least say, well, mine is small, but it has great clarity.
[6:54]So I was just like, wow, like probably the most successful marketing campaign in, you know, modern history.
[7:01]So I wanted to, you know, debunk that a little bit with the story, but, you know, growing up in the 70s and 80s, you know, the icon of jewelry was Elizabeth Taylor.
[7:13]Yes.
[7:14]And she just had these outrageous gems, most of which were gifted to her by Richard Burton.
[7:19]But I also know that very large diamonds often come with these alleged curses attached to them.
[7:26]And I never really knew like does a curse really exist or is it just the way they make people feel better who can have jewelry like that. I know it totally made me feel better.
[7:35]But a book I was reading sort of posed the question.
[7:40]Are huge diamonds cursed like the hope diamond or the 195 carat black or live diamond or is it just that the greed that is required to acquire something of such scale that becomes a self fulfilling prophecy that bad things are going to happen.
[7:57]But if you look at stories of people who have owned, for example, the hope diamond was Marie Antoinette's original diamond called the French blue back in the day.
[8:07]Obviously she had terrible end, but every subsequent owner had tragedy.
[8:12]So it really got me thinking about, you know, what is valuable, what makes us happy, what's important.
[8:19]What do we spend our time and energy and money on.
[8:22]And these are all things I wanted to explore in guilt.
[8:25]Wow. Amazing.
[8:27]And how did you come up with the character? I feel like Gemma, Gemma, Gemma, Gemma.
[8:36]Gemma, you know, she kind of like has a chip on her shoulder.
[8:38]She's gotten the short end of the stick in life. And, you know, has a lot of mixed feelings about her family and her place in it and love and all of that.
[8:49]Where did she come from? I feel like you're so good at creating like younger women character.
[8:56]I mean, not older women too. I mean, you know, maybe I should back I mean, you're good at all. I mean, but I feel like a lot of your books have this younger woman.
[9:03]Anyway, tell me about coming up with this character.
[9:06]Well, to me, the ultimate, one of the ultimate heroines in a novel or a miniseries, which is how I first saw the story was the book Lace by Shirley Conrad.
[9:18]And Phoebe Kate plays this daughter, a young woman who had been placed up for adoption.
[9:24]She's in her twenties and she summons these very successful women to a hotel.
[9:30]And she says to them, which one of you bitches is my mother. And it was like one of the most famous explosive lines of books from the 1980s.
[9:38]And I love the idea of a woman, a young woman who doesn't have a mother, but is loosely linked somehow to to wealth, fortune and power.
[9:48]And what that does to someone psychologically. And what in turn they come back seeking.
[9:54]So in this book, Gemma wants that diamond. She thinks that's what she.
[10:00]who wants.
[10:01]And on a quest to find it,
[10:03]she leads New York City and goes to Province Town, Cape Cod.
[10:07]And of course, what she finds along the way
[10:10]is more important than a diamond.
[10:12]She reconnects with family and she learns about herself.
[10:15]And she learns about really what is,
[10:18]why is jewelry so important to us?
[10:22]Why is it a universal thing that we long for
[10:24]and that we use to express ourselves?
[10:26]So it was originally the idea of a lily character
[10:30]who has nothing but feels like she should have gotten more
[10:35]and comes back for it.
[10:37]It was so funny when I got to the part about Province Town.
[10:40]I'm like, of course we're back in Province Town.
[10:42]I feel like that you and Province Town are like,
[10:44]you know, you like own met as a locale or something.
[10:48]That is like your spot.
[10:49]Well, the weird things, I really wasn't intending
[10:52]on setting it in Province Town,
[10:53]but I was starting this book in the spring of 2020
[10:58]and New York was just such a nightmare as you know.
[11:01]And, you know, my husband and I were like,
[11:04]look, where's the one place where we feel like
[11:06]it's like a complete ballast when things are not in the world.
[11:10]And of course, Province Town was the answer.
[11:12]So I moved there for half a year.
[11:15]So of course I had to set the book there.
[11:16]I was living there while I was writing it.
[11:18]Oh my gosh, crazy, really crazy.
[11:21]I know we often talk about this,
[11:23]but I am in awe that you can crank out books at this rate
[11:27]and good books, right?
[11:29]These books are well written
[11:30]and have intricate cloths and characters
[11:34]and they're all really different.
[11:35]I mean, you go from the art world
[11:37]to the makeup world to the diamond industry,
[11:41]all glamorous, right, in their own ways.
[11:44]But, you know, whether it's this lush winery
[11:47]or, you know, the American Hotel in Seagarber
[11:51]with an old painter, sort of like, it's not like you're,
[11:56]I mean, not, I don't want to disparage any kind of writer,
[11:59]but these books seem as though they would take a very long time
[12:03]to develop and then write, not something like that
[12:07]you could just whip off, let me say it that way.
[12:09]How do you do that?
[12:11]Well, you know, there's a saying and it's like,
[12:14]I'm getting it wrong, but it's something like live a boring life
[12:19]so you can be daring in your art, okay?
[12:22]So it's like, I am not running a major company
[12:26]and I, you know, I don't have a crazy jet setting life.
[12:29]So I have the calm to live in a created world
[12:35]and I've arranged my life so that I have months
[12:40]and months out of the year where that is what I'm concentrating
[12:43]on, my daughters are grown.
[12:45]You know, I could not keep up this pace
[12:47]and I had little, you know, when I had school age children,
[12:50]but, you know, it's really, I love it
[12:53]and I love books the way you love books
[12:55]and I feel really lucky that I somehow arranged my life
[12:59]around them.
[13:01]You know, there's not saying be careful what you love
[13:03]because you'll find a way to have it in your life.
[13:06]And I think that's totally true, you know,
[13:09]for better or worse, I am in this book world.
[13:12]So yeah, wow.
[13:15]But don't you feel like there's so much
[13:17]accompanying stuff with each book lunch?
[13:20]I mean, as you were talking about at the beginning, right?
[13:22]There's touring and there's marketing
[13:23]and there's Instagram and like there's just so much
[13:26]associated with each release.
[13:28]Well, that's the thing and I didn't even realize
[13:32]getting into publishing a book.
[13:33]I mean, I understood the craft part
[13:36]and the challenge of writing a story
[13:38]but the way our world and the way publishing has evolved
[13:42]is I think a more than a lot of people signed up for in a way
[13:47]because so many writers are really,
[13:49]they're like, they're introverts
[13:51]and introverts doesn't mean shy.
[13:53]It means that we get our energy from calm, quiet books
[13:57]and looking inward and the world increasingly demands us
[14:02]to be putting out output output.
[14:04]Like I was saying to someone, I was the English major,
[14:07]you know, I knew I wanted to work in books
[14:09]but I had no idea I should have been taking
[14:11]a graphic design classes so I could deal with
[14:14]Canva and Instagram and you know,
[14:16]I always said, oh, I'm not a visual person.
[14:19]So what?
[14:19]And now it's coming back to, you know, bite me
[14:23]because I have to rely on other people.
[14:25]Some people have a knack for visual things
[14:27]but it's been, that's been really hard for me.
[14:29]You know, it could take me an hour to get a post up
[14:31]and then I think, oh my gosh, I could have spent that time
[14:34]writing our outline or reading something
[14:36]but there's no putting the genie back in the bottle
[14:39]and now this is part of it.
[14:41]And that's the way it is.
[14:42]You know, I do in some ways envy writers
[14:45]who are so gifted and literary, like Donna Tarte
[14:50]and she just opt out of all of that
[14:52]and she doesn't have to do it
[14:53]because she wins a Pulitzer
[14:55]and then she goes underground for 10 years
[14:57]and then she puts out another masterpiece.
[14:59]But for most people, it's become this hybrid game
[15:02]of social media, promotion, touring
[15:06]and if you can fit a book in there somehow, amazing.
[15:11]It's true.
[15:12]I know I wonder who would have opted out
[15:16]in prior generations.
[15:17]If this was part of the job description, you know,
[15:20]would, oh yeah, I think there's a lot of people
[15:23]who, I mean, who knows?
[15:25]I mean, I would not have signed up for this
[15:27]but I wouldn't give it up because of it
[15:29]and probably that's where most writers fall.
[15:32]Like it's not their favorite thing to do
[15:35]but they wouldn't give up because of it.
[15:38]But I think the writers who enjoy,
[15:42]it's ironic because the writers,
[15:45]I think who are great at promotion and social media
[15:48]probably often don't do a book as often
[15:51]as writers who don't like that
[15:54]because it's just a question of where you're putting
[15:56]like 80% of the energy stresses me out,
[16:00]just even talking about it.
[16:02]It's a lot, it's a lot.
[16:04]But it's great.
[16:05]I mean, I feel like you are one of the biggest
[16:08]proponents of other authors.
[16:10]I feel like you're always lifting people up
[16:12]and heralding their accomplishments and all of this stuff
[16:15]and you're like a linchpin of this whole New York
[16:18]women authors community,
[16:19]even though you've now recently left the city
[16:21]but tell me about if that has just come naturally
[16:25]or how you found your people.
[16:26]Well, I started my career in publishing
[16:29]working for publicity for HarperCollins
[16:32]and this is why I feel badly for young people
[16:35]starting out today because I was in an office
[16:38]and I saw, like you said, people lifting each other up.
[16:41]I watched how my boss supported her authors.
[16:44]I watched how other authors did things
[16:47]like invite people on their tour, blurred books
[16:50]and I saw how important it is
[16:52]to have that reciprocal relationship.
[16:55]And when I was starting out,
[16:58]there were people who were extremely generous to me.
[17:01]like Ellen Hilderbrand and Adriana Trigiani
[17:05]and Nancy Thayer and I will never forget how it felt
[17:10]to get a blurb from someone who you respect.
[17:13]And then luckily New York just had a lot of people
[17:16]pursuing the arts.
[17:17]So it's not hard to find your tribe
[17:21]and I have to say, and you know this,
[17:23]we just happen.
[17:24]Writers happen to be, I would say in general,
[17:26]just really generous, amazing, interesting people.
[17:30]and I have dabbled in other industries
[17:33]and found that is not the case.
[17:35]So and you have been instrumental
[17:37]because it was very dispersed
[17:40]and we would meet at a party here or there
[17:42]or grab a quick lunch at like pan-contidion.
[17:46]But when you started having your salons,
[17:48]I feel like we got a physical nexus,
[17:50]which really took the whole scene to another level
[17:54]and was one of the things I was most sad about
[17:57]when things shut down or COVID
[18:00]because I felt like we had gotten into this great rhythm.
[18:03]Like there was like a core group
[18:05]and then always new people showing up
[18:07]and I learned about new books at your salons.
[18:12]I met heroes like Danny Shapiro
[18:16]and having that physical space that was central
[18:21]was amazing and now we have the virtual space
[18:24]with the podcasts.
[18:25]But yeah, I think with social media,
[18:30]you lose a lot of the social because it just
[18:32]begins, it becomes about shouting the loudest
[18:35]and we really need to stay connected
[18:36]with the actual social, which is the connection
[18:39]to our friends and our readers
[18:42]and that's why something like the podcast is so important
[18:47]because it's actually a real conversation,
[18:49]not just you know, you heart emojiing my picture of book cover
[18:54]which I appreciate, but you know, we need this.
[18:58]I miss in-person events too.
[18:59]Yeah, for those listening who don't know what we're talking
[19:02]about prior to COVID, I used to,
[19:05]when I've started my podcast a couple of months later,
[19:07]I started in-person events at my house in New York City
[19:10]and I would invite all the authors I'd had on
[19:13]and all my friends and I had book fairs every six months
[19:16]and I'm actually having a book fair.
[19:17]I don't know when this episode is coming out.
[19:19]I'm gonna have one in LA at the Palisades Village
[19:21]for my first LA book fair.
[19:23]But anyway, that was really fun.
[19:25]I got to meet all these new people
[19:27]and it was so interesting for me.
[19:28]And anyway, I've had like one or two since COVID
[19:31]but I hope to bring that back or find a place
[19:34]for people that I don't know well enough
[19:35]to invite into my house can come and enjoy.
[19:37]So that's on my to-do list FYI.
[19:40]So at some point, at some point,
[19:43]what book are you working on next
[19:45]and where will it take you and us?
[19:47]I'm writing a book about a woman who created
[19:50]a perfume empire and she created a perfume
[19:53]that's as classic as Chanel number five.
[19:55]She's in her fifties and she always prided herself or not.
[20:00]being a commercial sellout.
[20:02]But as the book begins, she's about to meet
[20:04]with a huge pop star to do her first celebrity fragrance.
[20:08]And when she wakes up the morning of the meeting,
[20:10]she realizes that she's lost her sense of smell.
[20:13]Oh, and her first instinct is,
[20:16]I'm gonna see which of my children can kind of step in
[20:19]until I figure this out, which is of course a disaster.
[20:22]Because none of her three grown children
[20:24]are capable of filling her shoes,
[20:26]and the attempt to get them to do so
[20:28]is what happens over the course of the summer.
[20:30]So I've written, this is the weirdest thing.
[20:32]I've written the whole book,
[20:33]but I couldn't decide where to set it
[20:36]because I wasn't able to travel really last year at all.
[20:39]So I created a fake like placeholder town.
[20:42]And this summer, as I'm going on the book tour,
[20:44]I'm gonna decide what place I wanna sort of shoehorn in
[20:47]and then adjust the book accordingly.
[20:50]It would be neat if you did some sort of like towns
[20:52]would have to campaign to be the chosen.
[20:55]So seriously, someday.
[20:57]It would be cool.
[20:58]It would be.
[21:00]Ask your name.
[21:00]But the thing is, I couldn't, yeah, I know.
[21:03]That would be interesting.
[21:04]But I feel like I didn't salt the towns
[21:06]because it's so personal choosing a setting.
[21:10]And there are places that I intended to set books.
[21:13]And I would visit and there's just like nothing.
[21:17]Like there was no give.
[21:19]Like it could be the most beautiful place.
[21:21]But if there isn't something more than just,
[21:24]you know, a cute main street or a pretty body of water,
[21:28]like there has to be a spirit to the town,
[21:31]like Sag Harbor, you know, the American hotel.
[21:34]You just feel the history and there's real characters
[21:37]and it accepts your imagination on fire.
[21:41]And it's like that spark.
[21:42]It's what you need and it's impossible to predict.
[21:46]Even when you go to those bucolic places
[21:48]that it's going to be there or not.
[21:50]Interesting.
[21:51]Before I went to business school,
[21:52]I worked at Unilever and helped launch the Veroang fragrance.
[21:56]Oh, so you know, it's very stressful.
[21:58]I had to go to like that.
[21:59]I can't remember.
[22:00]I see something.
[22:01]I see effort, whatever.
[22:02]And like got trained and had to be a nose and smell.
[22:06]I wish I'd known that.
[22:07]Like I would have, I would have,
[22:08]extent I might still have to come and talk about that.
[22:11]Amazing.
[22:12]I went to like the chemistry.
[22:13]They took us to the lab where they mixed all the stuff
[22:15]at Unilever.
[22:16]And we got to hear from the chemists and all that.
[22:19]And yeah, I did all, it was really interesting.
[22:21]Super serious.
[22:22]That is so cool.
[22:23]And then I had to work on like the bottle
[22:25]and all the mechanics of that and the tooling.
[22:27]And it was, it was a whole thing.
[22:30]What size?
[22:30]1.7, 3.4, and so the person was like,
[22:33]did it, anyway, I learned volumes about that industry,
[22:36]which I have done nothing with up till now.
[22:38]So if you would like any sort of brain dump.
[22:40]Okay.
[22:41]That's enough because this was another year
[22:43]where I couldn't really sit down and meet with people
[22:45]in person.
[22:46]I usually like to do research and like for blush,
[22:49]I went to the vineyard and I met with the winemaker
[22:51]and the vineyard manager.
[22:53]And then with guilt, I couldn't do it.
[22:56]I had these grand plans to sit in the studio
[22:59]and watch this jewelry design and work, couldn't do that.
[23:02]And then again, for this next book,
[23:04]I had to rely on reading and just research.
[23:07]I couldn't hang out with people.
[23:10]So hopefully the next time I'm writing a book,
[23:13]we've back to like the world being fully open to us.
[23:18]Interesting.
[23:18]Amazing.
[23:19]And what are you reading right now?
[23:21]Well, look what I just got in the mail.
[23:23]So I, no, okay.
[23:25]So I read an art advanced reader copy of book ends,
[23:29]which is your memoir coming out July 1st.
[23:32]But we had created this little sisterhood
[23:35]of the traveling art amongst our reader friends.
[23:38]So I read it very quickly.
[23:39]So I didn't want to hog it.
[23:40]So I read it really quickly.
[23:42]And then I put it in the mail to,
[23:44]I think maybe Sousish or Minchnell or I forget.
[23:48]But I don't know where this art is now.
[23:51]It could be in Florida.
[23:52]It could be in the outer banks.
[23:54]But it's supposed to be back with you on PUBJ.
[23:57]So now that I have the physical book,
[23:59]I can read it again at my leisure.
[24:02]And it's, you know, any book lover,
[24:05]I think the way you frame your story
[24:07]through the eyes of books and books you were reading
[24:09]at the time or books that you've discovered,
[24:12]I think so much of us, so many of us,
[24:15]subconsciously do you like through that lens.
[24:17]And it was so much fun to see the books paired
[24:20]with your experience during all these different phases
[24:23]of your life.
[24:24]And it's just a beautiful love letter to literature
[24:28]and to coming of age.
[24:30]So congratulations, everyone July 1st,
[24:33]it's called Bookends, a memoir of love last and literature.
[24:37]And I'm taking it with me to read again this week
[24:39]because I had to rush last time.
[24:41]You do not have to read it again.
[24:42]That was not intended to be a promotional moment for me.
[24:45]No, but I literally asking you.
[24:47]I literally just got back from traveling around Cape Cod
[24:51]in New York and this was waiting for me.
[24:53]And, you know, it's so crazy.
[24:55]I, the thrill of holding a new book.
[24:58]It just never as much as I'm jaded about some parts of it now
[25:02]or sick of some parts of it that just can still
[25:05]in that moment I feel like a child again,
[25:07]like opening a gift and I think we all feel the way about books.
[25:11]So there's a, there's just an unparalleled joy.
[25:16]And especially when you read an early copy,
[25:18]you're seeing sort of a rough draft in the book,
[25:21]you know, often there's still typos in it
[25:22]and it's not the real cover.
[25:24]And then when you see the finished product,
[25:26]it's just like, it can, you know,
[25:29]you feel like you're part of the journey of the life of a book.
[25:31]So to feel like the paper they use and to look at it,
[25:35]it's just, it's amazing.
[25:36]And I think one of our privileges working with books
[25:40]is that we do get to read things early.
[25:42]We get to see works in progress
[25:45]in the different phases.
[25:46]And by the time a book is in the window of a bookstore,
[25:50]we feel like responding, you know,
[25:52]like a friend that we've gotten to know already.
[25:55]So I love that.
[25:56]So thank you.
[25:57]Thank you.
[25:58]That was beautifully said and I feel the exact same way
[26:00]about books in general and unwrapping them.
[26:02]And I feel the same about your book.
[26:03]I mean, look, it's all like sparkly and it feels so nice.
[26:07]And you know, it's just awesome.
[26:09]It's awesome.
[26:10]Even what signs the books are, anyway, really cool.
[26:13]Jamie, thank you so much.
[26:14]I will see you back here next year
[26:16]to talk about whatever you call your book.
[26:19]Do you have a title yet or not?
[26:20]No, not yet.
[26:22]You'll be the first to know
[26:22]because I'll probably be calling you
[26:24]and kicking a brain because I finished this thing.
[26:26]Oh my gosh.
[26:27]I'm just trying to think of something clever off the cuff.
[26:30]There's a lot of puns, but there's a lot of wordplay
[26:32]with perfume, but surprisingly not that useful.
[26:37]You know, there's a million little plays on work.
[26:41]You may be like spray or something.
[26:43]You could do a really cool cover with like it all coming out.
[26:45]You know?
[26:46]Yes.
[26:48]But you can imagine that room.
[26:50]Yeah, anyway.
[26:51]All right.
[26:52]David, thank you.
[26:53]And good listening.
[26:55]Have fun on your own book tour being on the other side
[26:58]of all this for a change.
[27:00]Oh my gosh.
[27:01]You were the first person to ask me to moderate an event
[27:04]at Barnes and Noble.
[27:05]I was like over the moon excited.
[27:06]I brought everyone in my family to come see us.
[27:09]And I was so nervous.
[27:11]And that was now what, like four years ago
[27:13]or something crazy three years ago.
[27:15]So anyway, thank you for searching.
[27:17]I was so excited to see her when I saw that in your memoir
[27:20]when you spoke about that night.
[27:22]And so funny, if you know it also,
[27:24]the one thing it's funny how memories are different.
[27:25]All I can remember is how the air conditioning was out
[27:28]that night at the Barnes and Noble.
[27:30]Remember that?
[27:31]And we just moved over.
[27:32]Yes, you were very upset about that.
[27:34]And I was just like, whatever.
[27:35]I'll do whatever.
[27:36]Thank you.
[27:38]Thank you.
[27:39]Thank you.
[27:40]Have a great summer and happy summer reading, everyone.
[27:43]Thank you.
[27:43]Bye, Jamie.
[27:44]Bye.
[27:45]Bye.
[27:46]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[27:48]Don't have time to read books.
[27:50]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zibi Owens
[27:53]and at Moms Don't have time to read books.
[27:55]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com
[27:58]and sign up for my virtual book club
[27:59]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[28:02]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[28:03]Heck, texture sound for the sound editing.
[28:06]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[28:07]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.