Jean Meltzer, MR. PERFECT ON PAPER: A Novel
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now
[0:07]Thank you so much. Called moms. Don't have time to read books
[0:10]It is a daily podcast
[0:12]365 days a year and each day we talk to an author about all of the things related to their career
[0:18]Their book their life and more in 30 minutes or less because who has time?
[0:22]I am now an author myself
[0:24]Although I wasn't when I started this podcast and you can get my new memoir book ends
[0:29]A memoir of love, loss and literature wherever books are sold starting July 1st and my children's book prints is charming
[0:36]You can learn more about me at ziviowens.com
[0:39]But really you're here to learn more about the authors and that is what we're going to do
[0:43]Also, be sure to check out all the other podcasts in the zcast podcast network
[0:49]You can learn more at zcastnetwork.com and definitely check out those shows as well
[0:58]Also, just a quick note that submissions for the ziviowards are open and will close on September 15th
[1:05]Go to ziviowens.com and you will find the ziviowards open submissions where we celebrate all the
[1:12]Undercelebrated parts of a book like the best spine the best authors note the best table of contents
[1:17]And authors can nominate their own best publicist best editors and so on
[1:22]There will be an in-person award ceremony in October in New York
[1:25]You will not want to miss it. Go to ziviowens.com
[1:29]Gene Meltzer is the author of Mr. Perfect on paper a novel
[1:33]Gene has the unique distinction of being the world's only Emmy award-winning
[1:36]Chronically ill and disabled rabbinical school dropout yet
[1:40]It is this extraordinary background coupled with a firm belief in holding onto your joy and seeking out happy endings
[1:46]Which forms the basis of her diverse work
[1:49]Gene received your BFA from New York University
[1:51]Tisch School of the Arts Department of Dramatic Writing in 2002 after graduation
[1:56]She served as creative director of tapestry international and Oscar winning television and film production company
[2:03]Where she oversaw the writing development and production for over 250 hours of children's television and won numerous awards for her work
[2:10]In 2006 Gene moved to Israel to pursue a career in the cabinet and studied at several colleges and seminaries for five years
[2:17]She also became an outspoken advocate for the disease
[2:21]Myalgic and cephalome my lightest chronic fatigue syndrome in 2012
[2:27]Gene ended her a biblical studies and spent many years homebound due to this disease
[2:31]Today Gene lives a thriving chronically fabulous Jewish life in Virginia
[2:36]She sees her challenges as part of a larger journey and is eager to share her stories with others
[2:40]Her first book, The Mozzable, was published by Mira in 2021 and is being developed into a feature film
[2:47]By Sugar 23 with Lance Bass Productions
[2:50]Brett Gersky and Ben Savage producing
[2:53]Welcome Gene. Thanks so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books to discuss Mr. Perfect on paper
[2:58]Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here
[3:01]I told Gene like right before we started that my I don't know when this is releasing
[3:07]But today is when the august books article that I wrote for Good Morning America
[3:11]It came out in Gene's book was on there
[3:13]So I was just telling her and that was really fun to see her reaction
[3:16]Yeah, yeah, it's so glad I was saying now I kind of grew up my whole life watching GMA
[3:21]I'm a GMA girl, so it's really quite an honor. I never ever thought I would be on any GMA
[3:25]Let us so I'm very very honored
[3:27]So give me all the clamps even before we begin
[3:35]And we're excited to be
[3:37]So Gene, okay first let's talk about
[3:41]What your book is about Mr. Perfect on paper
[3:43]So Mr. Perfect on paper is about a third generation matchmaker named Darl of Inowitz
[3:49]Who finds her private search for love sort of inadvertently thrust into the national spotlight
[3:55]When her puppy shares her list for the perfect Jewish husband on national television
[4:00]As puppies tend to do and sort of as this nationwide hundred seas
[4:04]It goes viral of course this nationwide hundred seas
[4:07]She finds her heart
[4:08]More and more drawn to Christopher said best
[4:12]The totally charming but also really not Jewish reporter following her story
[4:17]And it was partly inspired by my love my own love story
[4:20]I was a first-giver of pentacles whole student
[4:23]I was I am deeply committed to my faith
[4:26]I was deeply committed to my faith
[4:28]And plot twists I fell in love with a non-Jewish man
[4:32]And so my second book I really wanted to sort of explore the tension
[4:37]Between loving your faith and falling in love with someone outside of your faith
[4:41]And sort of how you navigate this in this modern world
[4:45]And how do you navigate this?
[4:47]You know, it's interesting. I always say, you know,
[4:50]I was a rabbinical student and I always sort of say the difference between a rabbi and an author
[4:55]Is a rabbi literally means teacher
[4:57]And a rabbi's job is to teach to answer questions
[5:02]But I feel like an author's job is to ask questions
[5:05]And not necessarily answer them
[5:08]And so I guess what I would say to that is how you navigate it
[5:10]I guess the book is sort of it asked the question
[5:13]But it doesn't necessarily give you an answer because I think it's a very individual journey
[5:18]And every couple has to decide what to write for them
[5:22]My second husband actually converted to Judaism
[5:25]Yes, so who wishes how we navigated that one
[5:29]So did he do the whole Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha
[5:32]He did, he had like a nick fun, we did a service on stage
[5:36]And it was the whole thing we worked closely with a rabbi for many weeks on it
[5:41]And it's a long time to convert into Judaism
[5:45]It's not like when we got all like study
[5:47]And so it might have been also converted to Judaism as well
[5:52]So a lot of that sort of like his learning and his experience
[5:56]As well as sort of like in the book of like kind of
[5:59]But it's interesting so you did then have this sort of experience where as a Jewish woman
[6:05]You know, what are your lines? What are you willing to you know
[6:09]Sort of move on versus not so I mean I guess it's because it's definitely more common nowadays
[6:14]But yeah, it's you know, I mean I wasn't I think well
[6:18]Maybe I shouldn't said I was gonna say I would it was more important for me to marry some to raise my kids Jewish
[6:24]So because I wasn't having kids with my second husband
[6:27]It wouldn't have been like a total deal breaker
[6:29]If as long as you would like come with me to everything
[6:32]But
[6:34]It's like no, I want to be part of what everybody else is doing and
[6:39]But yeah, I mean again, it's that idea of like how we navigate and what we want and what we're going to choose
[6:45]They're not changed
[6:46]What is it? What did he find to be the most interesting part of
[6:50]Judaism coming into it?
[6:52]I always felt like in my husband
[6:53]I made him go to young before services like the first yeah, like the first I made him sit there for like 12 hours
[7:01]Oh my gosh
[7:03]I was expecting him to leave like just be done
[7:05]But he said he stayed around. That's how you know love
[7:09]Oh my gosh, that's true love. I know not 12 hours. We're like two hours
[7:15]Two or three hours. He does fast. You know, he fasts with us
[7:19]I mean to be honest, he's you know Italian Catholic by origin and he's like, it's not so different. You know, there's so much
[7:26]There's the guilt. There's the food. There's the family
[7:30]Yes, it's on family. So it's not he didn't feel like it was such a leap
[7:34]So yeah, I know it's interesting because my husband is half Albanian and then on the other side
[7:40]Italian German and Irish
[7:42]But very similar even like the Albanian customs when you're living there
[7:47]So it's you know the circle dancing. They had circle dancing. We had dancing
[7:52]So it was very easy to sort of like even though we couldn't have come from like more different worlds and background
[7:58]And some weird way because our values were so similar
[8:01]Our cultural experiences were so similar. It really just sort of like melted beautifully
[8:07]But yeah, all of that is sort of in the book of like you know
[8:10]I tried so hard to marry a nice Jewish boy
[8:14]I did it like every single Jewish man and man happened
[8:19]I really did. I really did. I'm sure like there's
[8:22]Sorry guys
[8:23]I like I did it every single Jewish guy and then I said I
[8:26]You know it wasn't even I'm sure you know that sometimes it's not even that they're a bad guy
[8:32]They're just not the right guy for you
[8:35]Yes, and then I met my husband and he was the right guy for me, but nothing on paper. I was like
[8:44]What is this man plans and gone last? Yeah, that's sort of you know, Dara's journey
[8:49]And I guess it's very much inspired by my own journey
[8:56]About to celebrate 13 years of marriage
[9:04]So wait, how did you go from being
[9:07]Ribbon and you called yourself. What do you call yourself on your website?
[9:10]It's called dropout
[9:12]physical school job at
[9:13]we're gonna go school dropout
[9:15]And I want to read what I wait on
[9:17]Yeah, you say you call yourself the only Emmy winning chronically ill and disabled rabbinical school dropout
[9:25]I mean if there's someone else there with those that can claim that call me
[9:29]We'll be besties, but yeah, I feel like it's pretty my journey has been very unusual
[9:33]So yeah, I sort of started in film and television. I thought that's what I wanted to do with my life
[9:39]I was very successful very young and in that success. I realized I wasn't happy
[9:46]So wait go back. Hold on successful on the writing side of
[9:49]Yeah, in television. I was working in television. I was using daytime television. I won an Emmy
[9:56]Like within a year of graduation, you know, I was good creative
[10:00]director of a company, I have like 50 people under me.
[10:03]I was doing very well, and I had hit all these goals
[10:06]that I thought as a teenager, I wanted to be like a Manhattan TV
[10:10]producer, you know, Black pants and cat classes and living in New York.
[10:14]And I wasn't helping.
[10:16]So I was sort of began a process of looking for what would make me happy.
[10:23]And what I realized is I had been living for my goals and not my values.
[10:27]So I made a decision to live for my values, which a decision I still hold to play today.
[10:33]And in that process, I was sort of returned to the only value system I knew, which was Judaism.
[10:39]So I began studying, I began getting really into it.
[10:41]I guess they would have called me a bodshuba, meaning a person is returning to the faith.
[10:46]And I decided to just put my job and who is girl to study.
[10:51]And so that's what I did.
[10:53]I made my mother cry.
[10:54]I made a room very concerned, but I did that.
[10:58]I followed my hard attachment to the point of recklessness.
[11:01]And I spent the next five years studying in various seminaries for
[11:05]medical schools and I was training to become a rabbi.
[11:08]Unfortunately, the chronic illness that I had since I was about 18 years old,
[11:12]we're seeing we know a lot more now than we did when I was 18 in diagnose.
[11:16]And I just kept getting sicker and sicker and sicker.
[11:20]And I knew that I could not finish for medical school.
[11:23]I was just way too sick.
[11:25]I was going to kill myself to try.
[11:27]So I withdrew and I essentially became home bound, which I've been for
[11:31]sort of like the last 10 years.
[11:33]Very bad for two years where like the only sort of thing in my life that I could do
[11:38]was sort of like go to the grocery store that you want a month for half an hour.
[11:42]Thankfully, I was able to get a little better than that.
[11:45]And I decided to start writing again and very slow process to be able to write again.
[11:51]But that's sort of what happened at one point.
[11:54]I sat down and I wrote the Mozzable.
[11:56]And that book sort of took off.
[11:58]And it sort of became a culmination of my journey, which was the writing and
[12:02]the duty is of coming together and chronic illness and sort of these
[12:06]visible things all sort of culminated in sort of where I am today.
[12:11]So man plans, God laughs.
[12:13]And yeah, it's definitely an interesting story.
[12:15]And it's a bit of journey to get here.
[12:19]But you know, I'm very, I appreciate every single second of it.
[12:23]Because I definitely, the odds were not in my favor.
[12:28]So can you do you mind talking more about the illness and what it was and what happened?
[12:33]Yeah, sure, sure.
[12:34]So I was diagnosed with that 18, but it's known as myalgic and stuff from
[12:45]very hard to say.
[12:47]And me is what a lot of people go by.
[12:49]It is not just about being fatigued.
[12:51]It's a neuromune multisystem disease.
[12:54]And it actually winds up disabling 25% of people with the disease
[12:59]are fed down and 75% of people who are diagnosed with the
[13:02]ephesical never returned to working full time.
[13:05]I believe the statistics.
[13:07]So this is a very disabling disease, but they horrible,
[13:10]misogynistic moniker that is really meant to sort of like devalue the experience
[13:16]that we have as disabled chronically old people.
[13:19]So I had for 10, 15, 20, 20 over 20 years now,
[13:24]been living with this disease.
[13:26]Mine I would say is kind of like it goes up and down.
[13:28]It's rapid, not rapid, it's like growing up with a word right now.
[13:31]Brain fog, but remitting, relaxing excuses, excuse me, remitting, relaxing.
[13:37]And so it means I'm a little bit better than I get worse,
[13:40]a little bit better, but basically I have to navigate my life around this
[13:43]disease.
[13:44]And then as I thought older probably what I thought worse is like
[13:47]I always joke chronic illnesses are kind of like teenagers go into a bathroom.
[13:51]They sort of travel and back.
[13:53]So I've gotten more conditions unfortunately.
[13:56]So, but bringing back to writing, you know, writing is my joy and my
[14:00]escape from the reality of these conditions.
[14:03]So, you know, whether there were going to be books at the end of it or not,
[14:07]I'd be writing anyway.
[14:08]So, because that's how you know you're a writer.
[14:13]You have such a wonderful attitude and this like air of happiness around you.
[14:18]So, it's weird.
[14:20]I know.
[14:21]I think that's because I had to learn to sort of hold on to my happiness.
[14:26]It's like, I'm very spastic.
[14:28]Like I will do something just because it makes math, because it makes me feel good,
[14:32]because it's fun, even if it's, you know, I made a decision many years ago,
[14:37]that even if my entire life was going to sort of be stuck to four square walls in a bedroom
[14:42]that I was going to hold on to my joy, that I was going to be happy,
[14:46]that I wasn't going to give up, that I was going to see value in my life.
[14:50]And I think I've never, I've never stopped that, right?
[14:52]I'm still that girl who said I want to live for my values.
[14:56]So, you know, I think if you build your house around the things you believe in,
[14:59]you value, you love, and you'll always be happy.
[15:02]But yeah, I'm very spastic.
[15:05]That's how I'm so spastic.
[15:07]I said, you said spastic.
[15:11]I also don't get out much.
[15:12]So when I talk to people, I get very excited.
[15:16]I'm very happy to talk to you.
[15:19]Wait, so, but are you in that?
[15:21]I mean, now I'm being, are you able to walk?
[15:23]Can you walk or are you?
[15:24]Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[15:26]I'm able to walk.
[15:27]So for me, it's more like we get something who post exertion on the legs.
[15:31]So it's kind of like anything you do,
[15:34]like you get a kickback.
[15:35]So you'll like I'll get a sort of optic inclusive symptoms on a very fatigue,
[15:40]and like in a migraine.
[15:42]So you just have to really be careful to sort of like navigate through your disease.
[15:47]But again, I feel very lucky that I've gotten within my books,
[15:51]one of the things I sort of try to do is sort of in Mozzabaw,
[15:54]we talked about chronic fatigue in Mr. Perfect on paper.
[15:57]I'm talking about generalizing anxiety disorder in my third book I'm working on right now,
[16:02]I'm talking about chronic pelvic pain.
[16:03]And I feel very lucky that I'm getting to bring awareness to these sort of invisible
[16:08]things that otherwise we don't see in our society in a fun sort of way.
[16:14]I was like, dug earring all the pages in your book about anxiety.
[16:18]I didn't even know that anxiety was a thing.
[16:20]I thought like it was just, you know, everybody felt this way about everything.
[16:24]You know, I just didn't even know I just assumed like everybody worried.
[16:29]And yeah, it's only a second.
[16:31]I don't want to put it together, right?
[16:33]Right?
[16:33]Wait a second, that's not normal.
[16:36]Like whatever it is what it is.
[16:38]But it was, it is rewarding to see in literature, whatever other people when they're
[16:43]going through it and making light of it and all of that, which I really appreciated.
[16:48]And I appreciated, was it Christopher steadfast?
[16:51]Christopher, right?
[16:53]His whole point of view came from from loss and trying to make things better for his
[16:59]daughter and the heartbreaking nature of that and reinvention of family and, you know, what
[17:04]it means to parent to be a good parent, to date and be a parent, like all of that stuff.
[17:10]Super interesting and really well executed.
[17:13]Yeah, I think for me, I love sort of mirroring in books and this, you know, very Jewish concept
[17:18]of the shared, which is that, you know, the author has sort of makes you better and sort of
[17:23]black fills up, lacks, you know, helps you fill up what you need to be a better person.
[17:28]And I think for both of them, they both have fears, but they're different types of fears.
[17:33]So as where, as her anxiety is much more irrational, she's afraid, she's afraid,
[17:39]can't go into Manhattan without thinking of all the things that could kill you.
[17:43]You know, so, but his fears are much more like based in his experience of reality and
[17:48]much more about, you know, the fear of falling in love again, the fear of being hurt again.
[17:54]And so they both, they both sort of have to kind of come together in order to overcome that,
[17:59]which I think is sweet.
[18:02]And I love what you said about me envisioning family because I think she has to do that too,
[18:07]you know, what does she want? What does she really want? So what is the vision?
[18:12]Because we all have a vision, right?
[18:15]Yes, I know. I feel like I should tell younger people just to throw it out the window, you know?
[18:22]You know, whatever you're thinking, it's like, it never meant plants. God laughs.
[18:25]So you get a schism right there. So I see that often.
[18:33]Because it's true. It's totally true that, you know, you think you think you know where you're going,
[18:41]you know, I remember when I, when I had to drop out of her business school and sort of that
[18:45]feeling of like, what, like, what happened to my life? Like, how did this happen? You know, 10 years,
[18:50]and my most exciting thing in my life was like going to the dog park and like listening to dog walk
[18:57]or scops, which is fabulous by the way. As the opportunity to do that, you show I do that.
[19:02]But, you know, it's so strange to think your life can change so much. You know, you write a book
[19:08]and boom, and all this stuff happens. But the one thing I would always say is, you never know
[19:13]for good or bad where your life is going in the next time, which is why you should never give up.
[19:19]So tell me about the success of the multiple and how that changed your life.
[19:24]Well, I definitely have a lot more friends on Facebook now.
[19:31]I mean, I'd say interesting because I think the coolest part about it, aside from like being able to
[19:36]meet all these people and share stories was just a feeling that like, in some weird way, my
[19:42]life when I walked into a room was always sort of like these disparate identities. You know,
[19:47]I have my Jewish identity and I have my chronic Leo identity. And then I had my like,
[19:52]I want to secretly be a real housewife identity. But with the lots of all, it was like
[20:00]didn't have to explain myself anymore. It was the first time I was Jewish and chronically ill
[20:05]and loved that philosophy and it was in a book. And so it felt like my soul was complete.
[20:13]Like if I had gotten hit by a bus the next day, I would have been like, I'm good God, thank you.
[20:20]And so I think for me, like that's been the coolest or best experience. Personally,
[20:25]is the sense that like, I don't have to explain myself anymore. It's in my stories.
[20:31]And then obviously all the rest. Like I try not to put any sort of value into like
[20:36]monetary or economic or ideas of success because I think that's a really dangerous path.
[20:42]But I'm happy that I can write really good stories that are resonated with people.
[20:47]And obviously I'm glad I can pay for my medications. And I think that's it.
[20:53]I mean, yes, my life has changed a lot more much this year. But I mean, I feel very blessed.
[20:59]And I don't take it live. Like keep saying, I don't take it any of it for granted. I'm just
[21:05]unbelievably grateful for every moment. Wow. Tell me more about the pelvic illness novel.
[21:12]So man plans God last pretty much the same weekend. I heard about the lots of all was going to
[21:21]beat me into a book. I woke up with what I thought sort of was like a urinary tract infection,
[21:26]eight doctors, eight rounds of antibiotics, three specialists later. It was not a urinary tract
[21:32]infection. And this sort of was the first time I was real, we were in the medical system since
[21:41]my diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome. So it was during a pandemic. And eventually through
[21:47]like, you know, they put me on hormones, they put me into chemical menopause, they gave me
[21:51]diagnosis of, you know, everything like fibro and clinical endometriosis and quality. I think
[21:57]being through pelvic pain, this you know, this, this is very common. You get every diagnosis,
[22:02]every medication. Finally, after surgery, they removed the fibroids that removed a two-year they found
[22:08]on my bladder, which turned out to be in fibroids, what was non cancerous. I was diagnosed with
[22:13]interstitial cythis and that began a new journey for me, which was sort of like how to reclaim
[22:19]my femininity and my sexuality and besexual with pelvic pain. So I sort of had to like learn my body
[22:27]anew. And as I was going through this, I knew it was going to be my third book. I knew it had to be
[22:32]my third book. So it's a third book is a book about two rival bakeries. And the woman is suffering
[22:40]from chronic pelvic pain and sexual dysfunction. And you know, it's sort of about, can you find
[22:45]the right recipe to fall in love? So yeah, two to two bakeries. So that's like an, you know,
[22:54]air to a major like sort of a baked goods empire and the other ones like a kosher bakery and book
[22:59]and so always jimmy. So lots and lots of wrong and fun, fatty ally.
[23:11]What do you think? I see a very delicious book tour coming to that. Please and please invite me to
[23:18]some of those events so I can eat fun, fatty hula. Actually, we have a place in the summer here. We
[23:24]have a, there's a farm stand down the black and they may call it with all different flavors,
[23:28]which is a jalapeno hala and a chocolate chip hala and a sun dried tomato and anyway.
[23:37]What's your favorite? I mean, I'm so boring. I actually like the regular just plain sea salt.
[23:42]Same. You know, I'm a purest. I'm a purest. I totally get it. I always think that's my
[23:47]husband too. Like at the end of the day, I just want, you know, I like it the way it is.
[23:53]Don't put all the stuff on it. You want to steal that line purest instead of boring because
[23:58]it sounds so much better than boring, which is like I just need a piece of chicken. I just need
[24:04]a whole lot. Yeah. I don't like spicy stuff. I want to just, yeah. I don't have to think about it.
[24:11]Like foam on top of it. No flowers. No, no, no. I don't think it was going to give it out of the mouth.
[24:17]Whatever. I'm a happy girl. I'm exactly the same. Thank you. I feel very seen right now. Thank you.
[24:26]Okay, parting advice. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors? Do you not give,
[24:31]uh, I mean, the only difference between a published writer and an unpublished writer is the
[24:36]published writer just added and added and added. So, you know, I used to tell myself
[24:42]it like only, I could only get one sentence down a day. If it took me eight years to write a book,
[24:50]it would, I was going to finish a book. I was going to write a book and turn that to be quite
[24:54]a prophetic and correct. Correct. It took me 10 years. But don't give up because you can be one of
[25:02]those stories where it happens for you. So don't give up all the rejections that writer goes
[25:09]having to learn, you know, thinking it will never happen for you. And one day it does.
[25:15]So just, just keep fighting. I need a good point. And do it because you love it. Don't do it for
[25:20]any other reason than because you love it. That would be my other piece of advice in this.
[25:25]Jean, thank you. Thank you for coming on. Congratulations on Mr. Pervertown paper, which I
[25:31]absolutely loved. And I'm so impressed with all of your life story and, you know,
[25:38]your attitude and just all of it and your talent and everything. I love your voice and writing
[25:44]so much. And anyway, keep going. I can't wait to read what you do. Thank you so much. And thank you
[25:49]for putting me on your GMA on this list. That means so much to me and thank you for having me here and
[25:54]thank you to everybody listening. And I hope you love this book as much as I did because it is a
[25:59]book and you're in my heart. So everyone go out and give Mr. Pervertown paper.
[26:03]And I love you all.
[26:07]Thank you, Jean. Okay. Bye.
[26:11]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to
[26:15]follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign up for
[26:21]my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on
[26:26]Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[26:31]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[26:34]now trim music.