Bethany C. Morrow, CHERISH FARRAH: A Novel
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[0:54]Bethany C. Moro is the author of Cherish Farah a novel
[1:02]She is a national best-selling author writing for adult and young adult audiences
[1:06]And is the author of the novels Mem a song below water a chorus rises so many beginnings a little women remix and
[1:13]Cherish Farah
[1:15]Welcome Bethany. Thank you so much for coming on moms. Don't have time to read books to discuss
[1:19]Cherish Farah. Thank you so much for having me. I come into on this a minute ago
[1:24]But when I just casually picked up the book you got this beaming smile when you saw it which is so cute. I love them
[1:32]I love with brain babies brain babies. That's a nice way rebrand of books
[1:40]Little capsules of our brains. Cita. Would you like to see my brain?
[1:44]Okay, what is Cherish Farah about please tell listeners? Okay, so
[1:50]There are parts of Cherish Farah that are difficult to talk about without giving spoilers
[1:55]So what I say Cherish Farah is about is primarily a 17 year old girl named Farah who is very
[2:02]Obviously not a typical teenager and she has
[2:07]She is one of two black girls in a country club community
[2:11]But she's the only one with black parents her best friend Cherish
[2:14]She's been friends with ever since ostensibly they came into this community and went to the Academy is named Cherish and she
[2:21]Has been adopted by white parents. So she's a transracial adoptee and
[2:26]Something that Farah notices pretty immediately is that Cherish has this what she calls void
[2:31]Which is that she's been coddled to the point of
[2:34]incompetence
[2:36]According to Farah of course and she knows that because of that she is a
[2:41]Uniquely to fill that void. She's pretty much the only person who could fill that void because of what Cherish is lacking in the because of what she's lacking in terms of community
[2:50]Her parents are these very sort of
[2:52]Progressive very socially aware white parents who make it really clear that they're being intentional about raising their black daughter
[3:00]They make sure she has a black pediatrician in a black orthodontist and that sort of thing
[3:03]but what they're missing is
[3:05]community
[3:07]And so Farah is really her only her only actual community and it's basically about someone who believes that she is
[3:15]Always in control, but also
[3:17]Possibly always thinks everyone is like she is is trying to I don't want to say she's paranoid because every time you think something
[3:26]Strange it doesn't make you wrong, but
[3:29]But you know, she believes because she is always playing chess. She she believes that everyone who is capable
[3:37]Is also doing the same and of course
[3:39]There's a couple of people that she does not think are even capable of playing on her level and that is why the whole story happens
[3:47]I love that you said that about
[3:49]Paranoia because things really happen. I feel the same way about anxiety. It's like
[3:53]Just, you know because I worry. I mean the things really do happen. So
[4:05]They think I know you had this expression about or this passage about how
[4:11]How basically she's like a
[4:13]spoiled white girl, but she's not white and how you can be a spoiled white girl inside
[4:18]Right on the exterior you are not and of course being spoiled in any race is not a good thing
[4:24]But particularly not when you're
[4:26]When you feel estranged from a community as you as you said
[4:29]Which by the way, I feel like is the secret to really everything right in any
[4:34]Yeah, you have community you can get through anything
[4:36]Yeah, and there's also there's also communities that you cannot
[4:41]You cannot join and you can't even be let into
[4:44]A couple of people can't give you entry into it. So obviously when you're dealing with whiteness
[4:50]We're we're dealing particularly from an American perspective
[4:53]We're not dealing with a heritage. We're not dealing with a culture
[4:56]We're dealing with a conglomeration of power and so the reason that Farah
[5:01]The thing that Farah knows
[5:03]That cherished doesn't know is why it's a silly thing to say because it's not possible
[5:09]You're not
[5:10]Black is the same as white. It's how you're treated. It's not what you are
[5:15]It's a social construct and therefore there is no way to be
[5:19]White girls spoiled when you're a black girl
[5:22]Unless your parents create this really nice little bubble and then what happens if you ever burst it
[5:27]I mean, that's a great elevator fit
[5:33]Where did this where did this come from? Where did this novel come from?
[5:36]How did you what you know where did yeah, where did it come from so every novel
[5:40]I mean, you know
[5:41]When at any time and I know we all know this when we're talking about books because we know that books
[5:45]Even if they have a germ or sort of like a seed a seed does not
[5:50]Create a story. It doesn't create a whole world of a novel. It doesn't create fully fleshed out characters. Usually sometimes
[5:58]When it's really high-contemplative again, but with with cherish era my agent actually said she would
[6:05]Love to see something in a certain vein for me and as soon as she said it
[6:09]I was like no because I'm contrary and and I don't I don't I'm not short-order cook
[6:14]So like I don't like oh you would like a book about such and such. Let me do it. So of course
[6:19]I said no and then
[6:22]Super duper she's gonna be like super duper patient all the time and just like count down from when I say no about something
[6:28]Because if my brain sparks here's something
[6:30]I have a knee-jerk sort of like no reaction, but I'm also not married to
[6:37]Like I'm willing to say like oh no, I was absolutely wrong about that just kidding. I'm gonna do it and I
[6:41]Had a concept that has been fascinating me since I was a child
[6:47]which is a book that actually is in this book and
[6:51]As soon as I knew that that was the vehicle
[6:54]It was like oh no, I have to do this now of course of course
[6:57]I'm gonna do this and that's of course that's the because this is a social horror or thriller and that's sort of the
[7:04]Twist, but the rest of the story, you know comes from
[7:09]Fara herself and
[7:11]For me it when you have social horror sometimes or the social horror that that the majority of America is most familiar with
[7:19]You tend to have almost a
[7:22]blank slate character of a main character because you're potentially trying to balance all of the stereotypes and
[7:29]Anti-blackness that our entire society, you know is is seeped in and so I can understand saying okay
[7:35]I'm gonna make a blank slate character. There's no way you could dislike this this person
[7:41]They have clearly done nothing wrong. It should make it really easy to see the commentary and to see the incisive like you know
[7:49]Dialogue and stuff that we're having, but that's not liberation to me
[7:53]We there's no such thing as a perfect
[7:56]Victim and where white supremacy is concerned. It doesn't matter who I am. It doesn't matter what I do
[8:03]I couldn't be the problem. I could not be the problem when it comes to white supremacy
[8:08]So I was tired of that sort of
[8:12]Facial conversation where we have to start from a place first of going along
[8:18]white supremacy and sort of like defending the identity of black people and
[8:22]Defending the veracity of like their concerns and their ability to to be harmed by something that we know is systemic
[8:29]So I was like what if the person
[8:33]That is this is happening to is also a terror
[8:37]Are you gonna be confused?
[8:40]Are you are you gonna be able to parse the story if she is herself a problem because it very early on
[8:48]It should be pretty evident that she is a problem and what does that mean and
[8:53]Then who do you trust and basically what happens when they change their minds?
[8:58]Which is my dedication?
[8:59]It's a it's an excerpt from Langston. He's poem warning. I can read it if you like. Yes
[9:06]I do have it right here the not the where the day they change their minds. Yes. Yeah
[9:12]And if you if you haven't read the context of that poem
[9:16]I encourage you to go look up Langston Hughes warning
[9:20]It's really good. I'm gonna do it right now for everyone
[9:24]She's gonna do the work for everyone. I'm gonna do the work. It's very short. So I can read it. Okay
[9:29]Sorry Langston Hughes. I hope this is okay
[9:32]Getting warning. Negroes sweet and docile
[9:35]Meek humble and kind be where the day they change their mind
[9:40]Wind in the cotton fields gentle breeze
[9:43]The where the hour it up roots trees. Oh, it's good. You're not love it. I love it
[9:51]I love it. Yeah, I had another I had a different dedication and I remember like sitting straight up
[10:00]and being like phone, phone, phone.
[10:02]And I had to email my team and like scratch that.
[10:06]Here's the new one.
[10:07]And I love the fact that, you know,
[10:08]I have to like reply all to like a group of people.
[10:11]And I got like three emails directly to me back to that.
[10:14]And we're like, oh my God, oh my God.
[10:16]And I was like, right.
[10:18]Really powerful, really powerful, amazing.
[10:22]Two things.
[10:23]One, I've never heard the expression social horror
[10:25]as a genre.
[10:26]I don't know.
[10:27]Am I living under a rock?
[10:28]Is that the new title?
[10:29]So I mean, I think that I think that it's definitely
[10:33]a word that or a phrase that has been in use.
[10:36]I don't know how in use it has been outside of the black community,
[10:39]the black artistic community, the black readership community,
[10:41]honestly, but it's specifically, of course,
[10:44]a type of horror that has to do with the world
[10:47]that we live in, the institutions in the world that we live in.
[10:50]And the reason that I love social horror
[10:52]is because it's demanding of the reader.
[10:55]It doesn't allow for you to partake
[10:58]if you're still going to hold on to your delusions.
[11:00]If you don't know, if you pretend not to know
[11:03]what's going on in this country, I won't even speak to
[11:05]obviously what has recently happened
[11:07]because we don't have that kind of time
[11:09]and I don't have that kind of bandwidth.
[11:11]But if you try to pretend that you don't know
[11:13]the identity of this nation and what it has done
[11:17]to black Americans on top of everybody else.
[11:19]I mean, not at all to ignore what's happening,
[11:23]especially to Asian Americans right now
[11:25]to Indigenous Americans right now,
[11:27]if you try to pretend that you don't see those things,
[11:31]you are not the audience for social horror
[11:34]because it's constantly forcing you to admit knowledge
[11:38]of something in order to understand a story.
[11:41]Okay, noted.
[11:42]I like it.
[11:43]Excellent.
[11:44]I will start using that phrase.
[11:45]Thank you.
[11:46]I like it.
[11:48]I mean, I don't like the fact that there has to be
[11:50]that phrase on that type of horror.
[11:51]You know what I mean.
[11:52]I hope that reality is such a terror.
[11:54]Exactly.
[11:55]Yes.
[11:56]Yeah.
[11:57]It's like truth is stranger to the fiction kind of thing.
[11:59]Great.
[12:00]Also, you briefly said you were a huge contrarian.
[12:03]What do you mean?
[12:04]Give me some examples, please.
[12:06]I want some juicy bits.
[12:08]Yeah, I feel like, so I, this book was chosen
[12:11]for Bellatrist and book clubs, April selection.
[12:14]And I remember saying it at some point in our conversation
[12:18]which of course they used in some of the footage.
[12:21]And it's, you know, I'm being sort of sort of a little bit
[12:25]of a joke, of course, because I don't think of myself
[12:27]as contrarian.
[12:28]I just, as a former student of sociology,
[12:31]I am not a direct result of my sociological training
[12:36]and therefore I'm not going to just go along with something
[12:39]or agree to something or even have a simple on the surface
[12:43]conversation if something is said that clearly is problematic
[12:48]or something like that, right?
[12:49]So I am more so, you know, everyone wants to call themselves
[12:53]independent thinkers.
[12:55]And those words have like ceased to mean anything at this point
[12:58]because it really usually just means I'm seeking out
[13:00]evidence to confirm my preexisting bias.
[13:03]But for me, a contrarian in this sort of society,
[13:07]particularly a society like the United States,
[13:09]which is founded on so much trauma and so much hostility
[13:13]and so much anger and so much, you know, just evil,
[13:18]a contrarian could really mean anything in that context.
[13:21]For me, it means I am going to love at a capacity
[13:27]that doesn't match the society that raised me.
[13:32]I'm going to identify, be able to love and have compassion
[13:37]and empathy for individual people despite, you know,
[13:41]I'm not going to be forced into certain types of dynamics.
[13:44]I'm also not going to deny what I see.
[13:47]I'm not going to suddenly act like things like racist
[13:50]or something are debates and someone can just say
[13:53]that they're not something that they clearly are invested in.
[13:56]But I personally, you know, if you look at my family,
[14:00]if you look at my my former spouse who I just,
[14:02]I was running back to this because he called me this morning
[14:04]and he was having cardables I did dash out and get in my car
[14:08]and then have him drop me back off here.
[14:10]And it shouldn't matter and I shouldn't have to talk about it.
[14:12]But, you know, since we have laws that are,
[14:15]since we're going down a road where people are very clearly
[14:18]trying to undo things like like loving, like the loving case,
[14:21]like women's rights and that sort of thing.
[14:24]And it very obviously has to do with these sort of white
[14:27]supremacist fantasies, which always have to do
[14:30]with the subjugation of blackness.
[14:32]It could eventually be a problem that my son is by racial,
[14:36]that my former husband is white American.
[14:39]And a lot of people will try to tell you
[14:43]what you have to believe and how you have to feel about everyone
[14:47]if you identify something.
[14:49]And I say, of course, that I'm talking about an institution.
[14:52]I'm talking about an institution of power that has to be dismantled.
[14:55]Anybody who wants to dismantle it can.
[14:57]Anyone who wants to be involved in ending this can end it.
[15:01]And I'm not, and I'm not going to apologize for that.
[15:04]I'm never going to apologize for my family.
[15:05]I'm never going to apologize for how I feel
[15:08]and they're only my family, of course.
[15:10]Because they come alongside and know all the things that I know
[15:14]and understand and appreciate reality for what it is
[15:17]and are supportive of all of my work.
[15:19]And our family, family is family.
[15:22]And a contrarian in this country honestly could be anything.
[15:26]You'd be somebody as benign as someone who loves someone
[15:29]they're not supposed to.
[15:30]OK.
[15:32]That's a juicy example of something we get.
[15:35]I love it.
[15:36]Or simply on my mind.
[15:38]I bet.
[15:38]Yeah.
[15:39]I mean, it's not fair.
[15:41]I mean, I feel everyone needs to leave family out of everything.
[15:44]It's my two cents on it.
[15:46]But I'm just going to throw that out there.
[15:47]You would think.
[15:48]You would think.
[15:49]Tell me about writing this novel.
[15:51]Tell me when and did it just fly out of you
[15:54]after you hit on this idea that this is the way
[15:57]you were on it to tell the story.
[15:58]How long, like, do you have a, what's your whole,
[16:00]to give me the whole writing speech?
[16:02]Oh, gosh.
[16:02]I mean, I can't give you the whole writing thing
[16:04]because it's totally different.
[16:05]I'm writing something right now that I am fully fully.
[16:09]I want to say panzing, but my friend Daniel Clayton
[16:12]says, what is it, headlights, headlights plotting.
[16:15]So literally just I plot a scene and then I write that scene.
[16:19]I can't like, I am saying I can't.
[16:21]I can't plot out a book because at that point,
[16:25]why didn't I just write it?
[16:26]What are we doing?
[16:27]Why are we wasting time here?
[16:29]Which is funny because I did end up
[16:31]at a certain point with Cherish bear.
[16:32]I ended up writing an entire synopsis
[16:34]because we sold it as a partial.
[16:36]So I did write out exactly what was going to happen
[16:40]for the whole second half of the book before I ever wrote it.
[16:42]And then I had to go away from it
[16:43]because I was actually writing so many beginnings,
[16:46]which came out the September before Cherish bear.
[16:50]And I know that I had to have written it
[16:52]the first chunk of Cherish bear was written in 2020
[16:56]right after around the time that a song
[16:59]of the water was coming out my young adult contemporary fantasy.
[17:04]And because of who Farah is, and because Farah really
[17:09]is the story, and particularly the story
[17:11]that carries you to the real story,
[17:14]the story that you know before you get to the story,
[17:17]it was really interesting writing her.
[17:18]I will say she was simultaneously the easiest person
[17:21]I've ever written and also the most difficult
[17:24]because I kept being like, what is she doing?
[17:25]Why are you doing this?
[17:26]Why are you doing this?
[17:27]It was like, she kept making things more complicated
[17:32]than they needed to be because she kept like,
[17:35]believe, you know, should like work a situation
[17:37]out in three different directions.
[17:39]And it's like they literally said good morning,
[17:40]like please, please try to come down to have some chill.
[17:44]So I was with my with my critique partner,
[17:46]Amy, student Clark, like I kept sending her chunks
[17:49]as I do, I write nice in her stuff.
[17:50]I don't know.
[17:51]Some people say that writing is a solitary experience
[17:53]and it has literally never been for me.
[17:55]All of my first books were written for like sort of group
[17:59]consumption.
[17:59]I would write chapters and then my sisters
[18:02]and one of my sister's friends would read it.
[18:05]We would all sit around the computer
[18:06]and then they would just read it out loud.
[18:08]So that's how I kind of was in short order cook.
[18:10]Like I was sort of writing to specifically like,
[18:12]okay, what do you want to see happen?
[18:15]But so it's always, you know,
[18:16]it's always been sort of a social thing for me writing.
[18:20]So I wrote chunks and I've been sent it to her every day
[18:23]that I finished writing.
[18:24]And it would always just be like,
[18:25]I don't know if I'm allowed to do this,
[18:27]but this is what's happening.
[18:28]I was just feeling very,
[18:31]it's very difficult to be close to Farah
[18:33]for any long period of time.
[18:35]She's a strange person to be that claustrophobicly close to.
[18:42]And of course, because it's, you know,
[18:44]from her perspective and it's her interior thought process,
[18:48]you cannot escape her.
[18:50]So it was, it was a very interesting, right?
[18:53]Right.
[18:54]And tell me about being chosen for Bela Cheese
[18:58]and book clubs and all of that.
[18:59]Like what was that like for you?
[19:00]And you know, who did you meet
[19:02]that was interesting as a result and that whole thing?
[19:05]Well, I mean, I love Bela Cheese.
[19:06]They have really been supportive.
[19:09]I know they read.
[19:10]I know they read them.
[19:11]I don't think that we connected when they read them,
[19:13]which was my first novel,
[19:14]it's another adult speculative literary,
[19:17]also like, you know, science fiction altered
[19:20]at history type of deal.
[19:21]And I know they had read that,
[19:23]but I think I found that out when I came on
[19:27]to do an interview for a song Below Water.
[19:30]So sometime in either 2019 or 2020.
[19:33]And I met Kara at that point.
[19:35]And we just had the most absolutely amazing conversation.
[19:39]And then of course, you know,
[19:40]I just kept seeing them posting
[19:42]about either a song Below Water or Mem,
[19:44]which is just really awesome.
[19:46]And I love the way that they talk about literature.
[19:50]I love the conversation.
[19:52]It's something that I feel like we're at risk of losing
[19:56]if we don't create these and don't continue having.
[20:00]these really intentional settings
[20:02]to do the work of a really critical engagement
[20:06]with literature.
[20:06]And it's wonderful to just read books and books.
[20:08]There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
[20:10]But for me, as an author, speaking to somebody
[20:13]who can speak about all of the different layers of the novel
[20:19]and can also sort of extrapolate their own thoughts
[20:21]and can go off on tangents and can, you know,
[20:23]that to me is why I do interviews and podcasts
[20:27]that sort of thing.
[20:28]I love having those types of conversations
[20:30]and the types of reviews that I love have to have some critique.
[20:36]Like, you don't have to make something up.
[20:37]But it's just for me seeing someone engaged
[20:41]with the work that I labored over.
[20:43]For me is always going to have a very different feeling
[20:47]than someone who just gushes, which I love that.
[20:50]I love if someone enjoyed and can't think of anything.
[20:54]I've done that before.
[20:55]But I will say the times that I have like gushed over
[20:58]something and could see no flaw with it.
[21:00]Usually with time, I realized that I was totally hoodweight.
[21:05]I'll give you one example.
[21:07]I don't know if everyone has seen Tron legacy,
[21:09]but the music, the entire score was done by Daft Punk.
[21:12]So suffice it to say, and Jeff Bridges is in it, right?
[21:15]Of course.
[21:16]So just suffice it to say, I thought the movie was without error
[21:19]because of those two things.
[21:21]And after a couple more watches, it was like, oh, okay.
[21:25]So it was really Daft Punk, I think, that I was responding to.
[21:29]So maybe I'm projecting.
[21:31]But because I've had those kind of experiences
[21:33]where the inability to critically assess something
[21:36]usually meant that I was just having a completely emotional
[21:38]rate, I just have a lot of respect
[21:42]for the real work of critique of literary critique.
[21:45]I think it's so important.
[21:46]And there are so many people who are doing just absolutely amazing.
[21:49]There's nothing that I've been reading, a really thorough
[21:52]and really like the scholarship of a criticism
[21:54]where they're talking to you about the author's journey.
[21:57]They're looking for the meaning that the author injected
[22:01]into their work.
[22:03]I think that's really, that's really, really important.
[22:05]And having conversations with Bellatrix
[22:06]always allows for that sort of discussion.
[22:09]So I just, I always really enjoy spending time with them.
[22:13]Amazing.
[22:14]Do you have any parting advice for aspiring authors?
[22:17]Oh, goodness.
[22:18]I feel like I usually don't have a lot of the kind of advice
[22:22]I think that most people are looking for or giving
[22:26]because I think, especially with my own career,
[22:30]it's like, the most important thing is you have to know
[22:34]what you do and why you do it and what you want to do.
[22:38]I got so much advice that I completely disregarded.
[22:42]I mean, from professionals, from industry professionals
[22:45]as well.
[22:45]And it's not, I guess balance it with doing your due diligence.
[22:49]Research, no, the industry that you're getting into
[22:51]is an industry and there are things that you need to know.
[22:54]And once you've done that, you need to know yourself
[22:57]and your work and your goals that well as well.
[23:00]Because you need to be able,
[23:01]this is where art intersects with business
[23:03]and you need to know what's on the table
[23:05]and what's not on the table, what's negotiable
[23:07]and what's not negotiable.
[23:08]And if you don't know that coming into this sort of industry,
[23:13]that's gonna be a problem.
[23:15]It's gonna be a problem for you
[23:16]because people are not really dedicated to mining
[23:19]that information and figuring it out for themselves.
[23:21]And really has something they're trying to get accomplished.
[23:23]So, know thyself.
[23:25]So then, it's a great, excellent.
[23:31]Bethany, thank you so much.
[23:33]Thank you for your passion and how articulate you are
[23:37]about the issues that you're obviously just thinking
[23:40]so critically about and that are so important
[23:42]to be thinking critically about and be able to communicate it
[23:46]and sort of, you know, really rally the troops
[23:49]with your, your order and force.
[23:52]I love it.
[23:53]Yeah, and for that poem, which will give me the chills
[23:56]the rest of the day.
[23:57]Yes, is it not?
[23:58]It's so good.
[23:59]It's so, so good.
[24:01]Thank you so much for having me.
[24:02]All right, thanks for coming on.
[24:03]Take care.
[24:04]Bye.
[24:06]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[24:09]to Read Books.
[24:10]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[24:12]at Zebioans and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[24:15]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[24:17]and sign up for my virtual book club
[24:19]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[24:22]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan Beck,
[24:23]Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[24:26]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[24:27]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.