Sumner Brooks and Amee Severson, HOW TO RAISE AN INTUITIVE EATER: Raising the Next Generation with Food and Body Confidence
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[0:58]Sumner Brooks and Amy Severson are co-authors of how to raise an intuitive eater
[1:03]Raising the next generation with food and body confidence
[1:07]This is one of several episodes
[1:09]We'll be releasing that focus on health and wellness for our bodies this month
[1:13]Sumner is a mom and licensed registered dietitian and nutritionist based in Oregon
[1:18]Who has spent nearly 15 years working in the field of nutrition and eating disorders
[1:22]Her experience includes providing nutrition therapy for adolescents and adults
[1:26]She has been a certified intuitive eating counselor for many years
[1:29]She's also the founder of the online training platform eating disorder registered dietitians and professionals
[1:34]ED RD pro outside of writing and work
[1:37]Sumner enjoys walking for dogs finding quiet places to read snuggling with her kiddos and practicing her tennis game
[1:43]Amy is a registered dietitian and nutritionist whose work focuses on body positivity
[1:47]Fat acceptance and intuitive eating through a social justice lens
[1:51]Amy focuses on providing safe and inclusive care for the LGBTQ plus community
[1:56]Amy identifies as queer and non-binary
[1:59]She is the owner of prosper nutrition and wellness in Bellingham, Washington when they aren't working
[2:03]Amy spends time with her family and animals and reading fantasy books
[2:08]Today, I am so excited that both Sumner, Brooks and Amy Severson are here to talk about how to raise an intuitive
[2:16]Raising the next generation with food and body confidence. We are so happy to be here. Is it be thank you
[2:23]Yeah, thank you for having us. We're excited to talk to you today. It's my pleasure
[2:27]Why don't the two of you start off by talking about the very important message from your introduction about different types of people how
[2:36]There are so many things facing us today in different groups and some groups are actually at risk for more eating
[2:43]Problems how there is such great food and security. I think you said something like one in six
[2:48]Kids don't even know where their next meal is coming from which is just really hard to wrap my mind around and it's just horrific
[2:55]So before we can get into even how to raise an intuitive eater that implies that you have the luxury of being able to think about food and provide the food
[3:02]So why don't you start with that context and then we can get into the nitty gritty
[3:05]I think one of the things that was really important for us was to
[3:09]Hold the space for the fact that food insecurity for children, but for everybody
[3:14]But especially children in the United States is a really real problem
[3:18]and something that
[3:20]If we just look at intuitive eating as a surface
[3:23]Kind of on the surface it feels like it misses a lot of the space for that food insecurity and for a lot of these groups of people that you mentioned that we
[3:33]Can kind of dismiss in that and
[3:36]Basic intuitive eating the idea of eat what you want when you want or
[3:40]um
[3:40]You know make sure you have lots of food around all the time because if you don't have enough money if you don't have enough resources
[3:46]that isn't something that can happen
[3:48]um and
[3:50]It's gonna look differently for different people's the kids that are a higher risk for developing eating disorders or
[3:56]Are often missed in a lot of these conversations about how to
[3:59]Provide acceptance how to how to
[4:01]Provide unconditional love
[4:03]um
[4:05]We really wanted to make sure we're not just included but more centered in this conversation than have traditionally
[4:11]Been the case and it was just a really important thing for both
[4:14]Sondra and I to make sure that we didn't go down the same road that everyone else has gone down
[4:18]We made sure that everyone was as included as we possibly could make it
[4:21]You know as as to why people could make it and
[4:25]Really wanted to make that a focal point of our work
[4:29]Okay, so as you point out
[4:32]Kids are born babies are born with this intuitive natural ability
[4:36]They know when they're hungry and they'll sometimes parents can't tell if they're cries or for hunger or something else
[4:42]It's pretty instinctive they need it and they push you away when they're done
[4:46]They just turn their heads and you know as any
[4:49]Nursing mother may have experienced sometimes before you think they've had enough or maybe
[4:54]Before I don't know he never know but they seem to know what they want to do kids babies and then somehow
[5:01]Over the years it gets more and more confusing particularly when you have parents who bring in their own food issues
[5:09]And how diet culture has affected many parents especially today when the parents today so many of us grew up in an
[5:16]Environment that really focused on that and now here. We are trying to raise our kids so
[5:20]Talk about that where do we go from here? How do we mess up and how can we get kids back and grown up too?
[5:27]But how do we get our kids to be intuitive eaters and not inherit any sort of eating
[5:33]Issues that our generation holds the burden of you know this book
[5:38]covers a lot of different topics within the topic of how to raise a child to have a healthy relationship with food and body
[5:46]So there's not a whole lot of opportunities for adults parents really anyone in general
[5:52]to kind of unpack and take the time to think about you know how are they
[5:58]Feeling about their own relationship with food and body. How are they observing their child's relationship with food and body?
[6:05]It isn't just not something that's really
[6:08]prioritized all that much in
[6:11]in our culture
[6:13]What we do see prioritized a lot is weight control and dieting and food rules and that has been passed down now through
[6:23]Multiple generations so much so that it's really it feels really normal
[6:28]and just like every day
[6:30]So the book gives people an opportunity to slow down around all of this and really kind of give some thought and attention to their concerns
[6:39]and why this matters to them
[6:42]So we spend the first you know couple parts of the book
[6:47]Really slowing down around what are the problems?
[6:49]Why is this a concern for the mental health and the physical health of kids?
[6:54]And then we give an opportunity to have parents kind of unpack
[6:59]their own history
[7:00]Which ends up making a lot of sense by the time you get to the sort of how to part of this because you realize how
[7:08]Deeply emotional this all is and how kind of ingrained some of our problems are
[7:16]So the how-to of it is a really big part of the book
[7:20]But it's also more about just like giving some time to this conversation. Yes
[7:25]Which is so important. How were you two raised?
[7:28]I was raised in a pretty dieting household. Um
[7:31]I can like to name all the books all the diet books
[7:35]and my mom had on her bookshelf
[7:37]All the times my aunt would go to weight washers. You know, I can I can list off with all those experiences
[7:43]And I was I was started on diets really early as a kid
[7:47]so I was raised in the thick of this and and
[7:51]Never knew anything different and
[7:54]That was one of the priorities I had in raising my own daughter was switching that and
[7:59]I think that was my perspective comes in when we talk a lot about
[8:03]Being raised as a dieter and what that can
[8:07]Feel like what that can do to you as a human and yeah
[8:11]And mine was a little more covert like I think that I had an experience that is very average for
[8:19]You know parents in the 80s and 90s and even today whereas
[8:24]it really was
[8:26]Any dieting influence was
[8:28]Really presented as just about health, you know and about staying healthy and
[8:33]You know taking care of your body and that's the place that so many parents are at today is they just don't see
[8:40]how much
[8:42]potential harm can come from this focus on
[8:46]Food and weight control and we refer to that over and over as diet culture
[8:50]But a lot of people aren't even familiar with the term diet culture
[8:54]It's certainly you know becoming there's becoming more awareness around it
[8:57]but
[8:59]I think what's kind of the takeaway from that is
[9:03]Amy was raised in very
[9:05]Explicit dieting household
[9:08]I was raised and maybe
[9:10]Less explicit but still I got the message
[9:12]You know the message of what's right what's wrong and what we need to be
[9:16]Aiming for when it comes to our bodies
[9:19]And kids are still getting that absolutely everywhere today if not more so
[9:23]So how do you make sure to raise kids who view their bodies as
[9:29]You know instruments that you need to fine tune with what you put in and that it's it's about health
[9:35]It's not about
[9:36]External perceptions of their body or what society wants and that they need to fuel their body properly and or maybe what
[9:43]I've just said is an assumption that's not even true
[9:46]But they're that's not even a good one to have that's sort of my default
[9:50]What do you make of that I think we shift the focus a lot to um
[9:56]Really making sure that kids are getting enough and they feel comfortable
[10:00]around food and they know that not only will there be enough food and this is where
[10:06]that food insecurity can kind of be a little bit of a snag because sometimes there isn't enough
[10:10]food but we really want to hold spacing or when we can kids just need food. Food is the most
[10:16]important thing no matter what that food is and really just another focus we have a lot is
[10:23]neutralizing the food. Food is just food and when we this is an experience I think parents have
[10:30]in a lot of other places around with kids you know when we give something power when we make it
[10:36]exciting when it's when it's new when it's off limits it's a lot more exciting than like
[10:41]well each abruptly and if we can neutralize it all if because that's it should be all neutral
[10:46]a cake should be just as exciting as an apple because it is just food and the more we can neutralize
[10:53]it the more kids feel comfortable existing around it and making choices around it and
[11:01]knowing that there will always be cake there will always be apples there will always be chicken
[11:07]whatever else is there and really just helping them know that they can fuel their bodies in the way
[11:16]if that feels good for them that they can troubleshoot they can you know they're going to be days
[11:23]where my my their death movement days or my daughter has it's a bull a small bull material before
[11:28]school and it she's hungry by 9 a.m. before they have snack time at school and we talk about that
[11:36]and figure out a way to add something else in so she has more food in her body so she doesn't get
[11:41]super hungry before a snack and those are the things that we can do it's not about like well you
[11:46]have the wrong choice like okay well do you want to have a yogurt with that do you want to add
[11:50]something else to that yeah just kind of letting them recognize that their bodies will ask for
[11:57]things that their bodies will be a trustworthy thing for them to listen to sometimes if they just
[12:04]want like pancakes or bread or I don't know some bagel and the more I'm like you do realize that
[12:08]this is the same as my pouring like a giant thing of flour like into your lap like that's basically
[12:13]all you're eating it's like a big bowl of flour like do you what do you think that's going to
[12:18]like be enough to carry you through the day like no you need something else sometimes it's sometimes
[12:22]closer to enough but we I a lot of times I just find it's not enough food so I was like throw a
[12:28]goger on the side or I can just currently relate to smoothies so there's always a smoothie involves
[12:33]um yeah so one of the things you mentioned earlier is it be is how it was right on so the moment a
[12:41]human is born they are already operating with these instincts to let their body direct when they
[12:47]need to eat and how much they need to eat and a lot of parents will sort of freak out about that like
[12:55]what do you mean might my kid can can sort of be in charge of their eating and what is really
[13:00]important to clarify um you know it's one thing when an infant is just drinking milk for the first
[13:07]few months of life but what we tend to see happens is that the introduction of solid foods
[13:13]is the point where sort of the parents may be biased or the parents food stuff starts to enter
[13:20]the picture and it can be that early when we begin to see a separation from the internal body cues
[13:26]like if a if a parent for example starts to think that's too much like I'm you know they're done
[13:31]I'm gonna decide they're done or have more have more have more um and so those are very simple
[13:39]very typical well-intentioned ways that a parent might start to over direct or over control
[13:46]a child's eating and when we're talking about raising an intuitive eater one of the things
[13:51]we're talking about is really a focus on supporting their natural ability to eat creating an
[14:00]environment that allows them to stay attuned and to stay pretty self-directed with their eating
[14:06]and we talk about a flexible feeding routine which really helps a child because number one
[14:13]a young child is not developmentally capable of deciding what to put together you know and what to
[14:19]have for dinner that is absolutely the caregiver's role so we we differentiate between what is the
[14:26]child's role here that we're really supporting and fostering and then what is the caregiver's role
[14:32]because this is not a situation where it's a free for all and you just let the kids walk into the
[14:37]pantry and decide what's for dinner they really need our support with that when it comes to getting
[14:43]you know all the different food groups and balanced meals put together so that then they can do their
[14:48]job which is what am I hungry for of this food and you know how much of it do I want to eat and
[14:54]that's just really an intuitive process it's not a cognitive process we don't need kids to think
[14:59]about protein carbs and fats we don't need kids to think about food labels and calories we just
[15:05]need to help set them up to be able to feel calm and comfortable and confident enough to choose
[15:11]what to eat from what's in front of them but don't you think like if I put in front of my
[15:18]like you were saying chicken and apple and a piece of cake they are going to eat the cake they
[15:24]are going to love the cake and they will be much more excited about the cake than the apple
[15:28]as frankly probably what I if I was just like you know right felt like eating or maybe this is
[15:33]again my own thing but I feel like it's hard to sell the appeal of an apple next to the appeal of
[15:42]like an ice cream cone with sprinkles you think that's all cultural and not into it and not
[15:47]like you know yeah I mean I'm stuck in stuck this I mean yeah absolutely so first of all
[15:55]think about this if you gave your child cake for breakfast lunch and dinner one day and then the
[16:02]next day and then the next day how soon do you think it would be before your child was actually
[16:08]like really rather preferring that chicken I don't think that would ever have it that is that is a
[16:17]lot of information right there that that it shows how far away we get from this truth this fact
[16:25]that our body is constantly on a quest for balance and blood sugar balance in homeostasis and
[16:33]are really complex hormones and neurochemicals our whole appetite system is actually designed
[16:41]to keep us on this course and now absolutely if a child maybe or if anybody has like not had a
[16:52]lot of access to a certain food or if it's just always like put on a pedestal and is like you have
[16:58]to eat all your something before you can have you know your dessert whatever that is there's a
[17:03]whole big pattern going on here before we get to the point where the kid sits down with the
[17:08]apple the cake and the chicken and we observe what decision they make there's like a whole lot
[17:14]there that's not just about the apple the chicken and the cake is it ever too late like when
[17:20]when is it too late to to make it to neutralize a situation like that I don't think it's ever too
[17:26]late I think because I mean the original intuitive eating concept is for adults and this isn't
[17:33]extremely different it's just kind of getting in the way of going down that road too far before
[17:41]we now have to undo as adults it's just fostering what's already there in kids and so it is not too
[17:49]late it's never too late I've seen eight year old students work before and I think for kids in
[17:55]particular we can always create the space for it I think like you said you know if you were to give
[18:01]your kids cake every day for every meal they might they would love they would be so happy
[18:07]I swear they would be so happy and like I want to throw the counterpoint out there that I got
[18:11]bored the other night actually and made a cake um I was just bored who had the house to myself and
[18:16]that's what I did on the house myself night and my kid didn't eat a single piece of the cake um
[18:22]and it was fun Betty cake she loves that cake and she didn't want it there wasn't a single day
[18:28]where she was like yeah I think I want to have cake she just didn't want it and it's
[18:34]not because she's special or amazing or she actually really likes sweet things you got really
[18:38]excited about some mokie we found it Twitter shows yesterday um it's because we have dessert like
[18:46]she had a scoop of hog and bass within her last night um but she ate her chicken before she
[18:53]ate her ice cream and that's not because she's better at this than anybody else it's because we had
[18:59]to do some undoing we had to do some work to make it known that there will always be dessert that
[19:08]there's it's not this is the only chance to have ice cream this is this is the only time this week
[19:13]we're gonna have a sweet thing after dinner it's no we just have some dessert with dinner
[19:18]and you can choose what you're gonna eat and if you're still hungry we'll talk about what else you
[19:22]can have um because it is it's cool to see kids do that it's cool to see that it changed because
[19:28]it does change most people come into this really scared like if I let this happen my kids only
[19:34]gonna eat cake my kids only gonna eat ice cream or candy or whatever that food is but it does
[19:40]shift and it's really cool to see it shift and here's another really important part of this that
[19:46]it just gets um you know it gets missed we don't talk about it but you know every time a child
[19:51]has an opportunity to experience what happens when they eat too many cupcakes or drink too much
[19:58]juice that
[20:00]That is the way that they begin to learn.
[20:05]That is how they learn.
[20:06]You know what, that doesn't feel good.
[20:08]And when we don't even need to add anything into that equation,
[20:12]no judgment, no shame, no, you know what?
[20:14]I told you so.
[20:15]No, next time I'm gonna control my child
[20:18]and not let them do that, this just happened
[20:20]over the weekend at a birthday party with my daughter.
[20:23]She did have too many cupcakes.
[20:26]And I didn't have to say a word about what happened,
[20:30]what she might learn from that,
[20:32]what she might want to think about doing differently.
[20:34]All I needed to do was say,
[20:36]I'm sorry, your tummy doesn't feel good.
[20:38]Let's have some water.
[20:41]And we actually did have cake that night.
[20:44]It was my dad's birthday.
[20:45]So there were two cakes on the table.
[20:47]And you know what, she did have some,
[20:49]but she asked for a tiny little piece,
[20:51]which is kind of, what's surprising to me
[20:53]because me at seven years old,
[20:54]I was saying, give me the biggest piece.
[20:57]And I was, you know, observing this,
[20:59]but this is all about trust, all about trust.
[21:04]And if we as adults can't trust ourselves,
[21:07]it's very difficult to imagine
[21:09]that a child can trust their body.
[21:11]But we also need to re kind of establish
[21:16]how we evaluate when a child does overeat
[21:19]that it's not a bad thing.
[21:20]It's actually a really natural learning experience
[21:23]and that what we can be aware of is not piling
[21:26]on any judgment or shame,
[21:28]or like letting that reinforce for us,
[21:31]see they can't be trusted.
[21:33]So on a tactical level,
[21:35]there are two pieces really.
[21:37]It's dealing with ourselves as parents,
[21:39]and you call it like reparenting
[21:41]or talking to your inner child,
[21:43]or basically coming to terms with your own issues.
[21:46]And then it's the, what do I do with my own kids?
[21:49]And how do I, like, how do I do that?
[21:52]So if we're tackling stage one,
[21:56]which could be, you know, here's a therapy,
[21:58]but let's give it a chapter.
[22:00]You know, like some people have a lot to undo
[22:02]and some people don't.
[22:03]I mean, people come at this across the whole spectrum,
[22:06]of course, like everything.
[22:09]How, how have you seen this be most effectively handled
[22:14]to sort of reparent yourself
[22:16]or deal with your own demons, if you will,
[22:19]enough to be able to objectively feed your kids
[22:23]and get them to follow this plan,
[22:27]this way of life, not a plan,
[22:28]this sort of philosophy.
[22:31]There's a couple of really great true stories
[22:34]in the book that we include for this.
[22:37]And Amy and I both spent, you know,
[22:40]we've probably worked with tenders or thousands of adults
[22:42]behind closed doors who have been inside this process.
[22:45]And as with intuitive eating, it often comes about
[22:51]when someone feels like they've kind of reached
[22:53]what's called diet rock bottom,
[22:55]which is just like, I am so unhappy living this way.
[22:58]The more I focus on food, the worse I feel,
[23:00]the worse my eating becomes.
[23:02]And so they hit this point naturally
[23:05]where they realized something's got a shift.
[23:07]And to then be even introduced to the idea
[23:12]that there is a way to begin making peace
[23:14]with food and body and accepting the fact
[23:18]that this is a journey, this unfolds over time.
[23:21]This is not an overnight thing like a diet quick fix is,
[23:25]I think what we see is that people who really can identify
[23:29]that this is no longer working for me.
[23:31]And then they take the time to get back
[23:33]and touch with their body, get back into and with,
[23:36]I can be present with what's happening
[23:38]when I'm making food choices.
[23:40]I can approach this from not a place of hating my body
[23:44]and shaming my body, but from a place of food
[23:47]is about self care.
[23:49]And I care about how I eat because that changes
[23:53]how I feel in my life.
[23:54]And when that's why we included the parent
[23:58]or the caregiver section first,
[24:00]because until you can really, I am connect the dots there,
[24:06]it's really hard to get to that.
[24:08]It's so important for me to trust my child.
[24:11]I want them to trust their body.
[24:13]I want to trust their body.
[24:15]We got to work at this.
[24:16]And this is how we do this.
[24:18]We slow down around all of this.
[24:20]We push out the diet thoughts.
[24:21]We challenge all these crazy diet claims and food rules.
[24:25]And then we learn from what happens.
[24:28]And also, I think that I think that we don't have to be,
[24:31]no parent has to be, and a perfect intuitive reader
[24:34]has to be at a certain place in order to start
[24:37]to do this process with their kids.
[24:39]I think just the nature of parenting means that this stuff
[24:44]is going to come up in us as we go through the process
[24:47]no matter who we are, no matter where we are.
[24:50]So there is a truth to being able to do this in conjunction.
[24:56]We can reparent ourselves while also working on this
[24:59]with our kids.
[25:00]And because the stuff will come up,
[25:01]like there will be times where something happens for our kids,
[25:04]we hear something that they learn at school,
[25:06]we are trying to feed them.
[25:08]And suddenly, oh my god, this definitely hit one of those
[25:11]places in me.
[25:13]And if we're doing that work, we can sit with it.
[25:17]We can see what it is.
[25:19]If you're working with a professional,
[25:21]you can take it to whoever that person is.
[25:24]If you're not, you can look at it for yourself
[25:27]and really unpack that.
[25:29]And I think that's really important.
[25:30]But you don't have to be perfect.
[25:32]We're not waiting for you to hit a certain finish line
[25:35]before you can start to do this with your kids.
[25:37]We can start to do it at the same time.
[25:39]We talk a lot about in the book about one,
[25:41]having a lot of self-compassion for yourself.
[25:43]I think that's one of our biggest things as self-compassion.
[25:46]And the other thing we talk a lot about is how you can fake it
[25:49]until you make it a little bit.
[25:51]Because I feel like that's kind of parenting sometimes.
[25:57]Oh my gosh, I love that.
[25:59]Just one last question.
[26:01]What if what do you do if a child recognizes
[26:05]that they're not eating in a healthy way?
[26:07]But that they feel like it's hard for them to control it.
[26:11]Like they recognize that they're maybe eating cake four
[26:14]times a week or they want to make changes.
[26:16]But they find it very difficult, which I relate to.
[26:20]I find making eating changes very difficult
[26:23]giving up things that I love, even though intellectually
[26:26]I know when I trust myself, I don't necessarily always
[26:30]eat healthy if I were to just do it.
[26:32]So how do you help a child who's saying, you know what?
[26:36]Like maybe I don't want to eat all this.
[26:40]But it's really hard for me to stop what then?
[26:43]I think it depends on what age they are.
[26:46]As a parent, I would consider any time
[26:48]when your child is coming to you with an acknowledgement
[26:52]that something's not feeling right,
[26:53]or that something's not working for them.
[26:56]Definitely, that's a flag raised to be really curious
[27:02]about how big of a problem is that there can often
[27:05]be a situation where there's more to the story
[27:08]than is being shared.
[27:09]And when it comes to food and eating disorders,
[27:13]that part of the more to the story could be deadly.
[27:17]It could be just very dangerous.
[27:18]It could be needing a medical intervention.
[27:22]So we want to approach this with curiosity
[27:25]and always give a child a sense that they're
[27:27]safe to tell us what's really going on.
[27:29]And that might take a little while to get the story.
[27:33]But something I want to say here
[27:34]that's super important is that sometimes,
[27:36]let's say, for example, this is a teenager who's saying this,
[27:40]they may, they're intention to quote, eat healthier,
[27:45]may not actually be about health.
[27:47]It may be about weight, appearance, size, shape.
[27:52]And that actually may be signs of a needing disorder.
[27:56]So anytime someone feels like they can't stop eating,
[27:59]or they feel out of control with food,
[28:01]those are signs of an eating disorder
[28:05]that could really need some professional attention.
[28:09]But I think what we want parents to hear
[28:11]is that if a child comes to them with a concern
[28:15]that they want to be dieting or losing weight,
[28:16]and oftentimes that can sound like, I want to eat healthier.
[28:20]That we as a parent, we don't want to reflect back to them.
[28:25]Yeah, I agree.
[28:26]I agree some weight loss would be good for you,
[28:28]or I agree, let's only eat healthy or let's do it together.
[28:33]These are absolutely, think some of the problematic patterns
[28:36]that we're talking about avoiding in our book,
[28:39]because these are the things that can lead to lifelong,
[28:42]dysregulated or disordered eating,
[28:44]lifelong struggles with food and body image.
[28:46]So as an alternative, because we don't want to just hear
[28:50]what we shouldn't do, we need to hear what can we do.
[28:53]We want to ask questions.
[28:54]We want to say, tell me more about this.
[28:56]When are you noticing this?
[28:58]When did you first begin to feel this way?
[29:00]Tell me what happens when you're experiencing this?
[29:03]How is it feeling for you?
[29:05]What do you think is going on?
[29:07]What do you think could be helpful?
[29:11]And saying, I'm here for you to always
[29:13]make sure that you get the food that you feel like you need
[29:15]to be eating.
[29:17]I want to make sure you get enough food.
[29:19]You need to have enough food, and I don't ever
[29:21]want to see you not getting enough,
[29:25]because that's not going to be helpful for you,
[29:27]and that's not healthy for you.
[29:29]So kind of frame, I would begin the conversation
[29:32]from that lens.
[29:34]I had to say a very similar thought
[29:35]of checking to see what the intention is of that.
[29:39]And I think knowing that we mentioned this statistic in the book,
[29:43]and I think it's a really important one
[29:44]that kids as young as four are often already starting
[29:48]to fear their body size or wanting to change their body size.
[29:53]And I think most of us, anyone who's ever attempted
[29:56]to change their body has ever gone on a diet.
[30:00]hates the idea of a four-year-old thinking the same thing, because that's a preschooler,
[30:05]that is a scary thought for a preschooler to have. And I think knowing that these biases,
[30:12]these thoughts are already there, they exist. And it's kind of fed a lot by not just the things
[30:18]that they see at home, which is the things that we say, the things that we see on TV or
[30:23]heck even in like this movie. So it's like weirdly implied.
[30:27]Um, and this message is messaging is just really kind of fed. And we don't want our kids to
[30:35]feel that way about their bodies. So really unpacking why, like if they're constantly feeling like
[30:40]they're sick, that might be a different conversation than if they are really afraid of what a cake
[30:46]is doing to them or afraid of not eating healthy enough for the sake of eating healthy enough.
[30:53]It really unpacking just what's happening there. And just asking, one of the questions we bring up,
[30:57]we say you can ask a kid, you can start to bring into the conversations more. And when
[31:02]especially when you're feeling afraid of what's happening, afraid of them asking for another cookie,
[31:08]is, well, how are you? Like, how are you? And really wanting to know the answer, really wanting
[31:13]to know what's happening, why this is happening for them. Um, if they're hungry, if they
[31:20]are feeling afraid they're not going to have the cookie, if you are worried, if you are feeling
[31:27]like that like rising like, ooh, this feels uncomfortable for me. Check in with them. See how they're
[31:32]feeling because that's a really important thing that we miss a lot in this. And we really want to give
[31:37]some space to that and really just encourage us to, to talk to them about, I don't know what's
[31:44]happening, how they are. Amazing. Um, thank you for all of this advice and perspective. Um, it's so
[31:52]important. Um, I think it's particularly important when people are just starting out, so they
[31:58]like nip it in the bud, but the vast majority of people are already in complex relationships with
[32:03]their own food and their children and trying to do their very, very best. Um, and I think it's worth
[32:10]noting, you know, there is no such thing as being a perfect parent when it comes to food,
[32:15]and there's always room for empathy and, and for yourself and for your kids and open mindedness
[32:22]and, um, making space for, you know, how to raise an intuitive eater and, um, neutralizing
[32:28]food and, and I don't know. You haven't messed up your kids if you're listening. It's going to be
[32:34]okay. It's such a warm message. We're all learning here. We're all doing our best. We know
[32:41]how hard it is to parent. And something we didn't say is that this is never a parent's fault,
[32:46]you know, we live inside of the system and culture that has taught us to do all of these things
[32:51]automatically. So thanks for mentioning that. Okay. Um, thanks to both of you so much, Sumner and
[32:58]for coming on and discussing your book and, um, helping so many people. It's really wonderful.
[33:05]Thank you so much. All right. Next time I will not have you over for cake. I'll have you over for
[33:10]something else. All right. Take care. Bye bye very much. Bye. Bye.
[33:17]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to
[33:22]follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign
[33:27]up for my newsletter at zebi Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[33:31]of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the
[33:36]Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[33:41]now trim music.