Gina Sorell, THE WISE WOMEN: A Novel

2022-07-22  ·  25:30  ·  Gina Sorell  ·  Podcast Audio

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[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now.
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[0:58]Gina Sorel is the author of The Wise Women and Awful.
[1:02]After two decades of working as an actor, Gina returned to her first love, writing.
[1:06]Graduate of the UCLA Extension Writers Program, she's the author of Mothers and Other Strangers, and The Wise Women.
[1:13]She balances the solitary hours of fiction writing with work as a creative director and brand storyteller under the banner of her agency Words Make the Brand.
[1:22]Originally from Johannesburg, Gina has lived in New York and Los Angeles and now lives in Toronto with her family.
[1:27]Welcome, Gina. Thank you so much for coming on mumps. Don't have time to read books. It's got some wise women.
[1:33]Thank you so much for having me. This is an absolute pleasure. And I don't know if you know this, but during the pandemic, I listened to you constantly.
[1:42]You're on all of my walks. You're all of my breaks when I was trying to find connected to writing, when I felt like I was just separated from that whole world and I couldn't find my way back in.
[1:51]I would just listen to your podcast and I would laugh out loud and have all the neighbors worry about me as I would just check in with my old friends.
[1:59]But no, it was, it was, it was really such a strong tie to this world and the world that, you know, I felt like I was just so separate from.
[2:09]And so thank you so much for doing it. And now to be on it is like, you know, it really is, it's such a thrill.
[2:15]It's such a thrill. Had you already, thank you, by the way, that is so nice of you and true, you know, I got as much out of doing the podcast throughout the pandemic is probably anybody who listened to it. It was my sanity vehicle, but was this the book you were working on at the time?
[2:31]Like, yeah, I was actually when we were, I sold the book in 2020. And so, but in September of 2020, you know, and so I was in the revisions like we had, I had just got my agent in the beginning of the year.
[2:44]And then so, you know, it was all these things, like the world was looking one way, right entirely, you know, when I had an agent and I started to do the revisions and then things started to get a bit, you know, questionable, what was happening, things were shutting down, I just got him back from a trip, but I noticed that there's a lot more hand sanitizer and a lot more masking.
[3:01]And yeah, and then as we all know, everything shut down entirely. And so I was doing his provisions and trying to stay in that really buoyant place that I wanted the book to have, you know, while also facing a really uncertain future,
[3:14]which all of the women and the wise women are as well. So it was interesting how that kind of all happened at the same time. And I think it deepened the book too. And I think it gave me like a great understanding of just how quickly things can turn, you know, and how we all have to pivot. So that was something that was just really strange how that lined up.
[3:33]She's stranger than fiction or whatever the expression is. Well, I just love these wise women. I mean, they're so fabulous, all of them. And you do such a good job of crafting different characters so that you feel like you know them. Wendy is hilarious. Like I could see, I mean, the, the, the secret husband and like their relationship and like even little things, like how he hides her iPad to get her to calm down, which of course is never going to make her calm down.
[4:04]And you know, I feel like I might share too many things with Wendy that I don't want to admit. It's sort of like compulsion, the daughters. I mean, they're all all of them and the way that the story unfolds and everything. It's like delicious and delightful all at the same time, you know, even the different generations, like all the old fashioned advice versus more, you know, it's just really awesome.
[4:27]Oh my gosh, thank you so much. That really means a lot. I love these women, you know, and I think you're right when you say that you could be Wendy. I could be Wendy, you know, I feel like there's what I was hoping is that is that people would see that there's a bit of themselves and all these women.
[4:42]You know, I mean, I think that Wendy's really well meaning, right. She's a bit of a meddling mother, you know, I have a mother who's very well meaning can be a bit of a medler, you know, but I myself have often given unsolicited advice many times.
[4:55]And I can't stop myself, you know what else. Now I say to people, forgive me if I'm like, like I'm going to do it. I'm just going to launch it and be like, but anyways, yeah, my mom's favorite saying is to say I'm, you know, well, if you want my two cents and I'm like before I can say I don't.
[5:13]I don't hear about right. You know, and Barb, there's a lot of responsibility for her family. And I know what that's like, you know, when you're the person who you want everybody to get along or you want you to take on extra responsibilities because you can.
[5:25]And because you can then people think that they can just expect more from you or do more, you know, and I'm sure that's something that you can relate to, you're doing all the many things that you do.
[5:36]There's that, that fine line where people start to think, oh, well, this is just who you are, but it's also learned skill and it's both a blessing and a curse because the better you get at it, the more you take on, you know, and increases your responsibilities.
[5:50]And so I think that that's something that Barb is really struggling with in the book. And then you know, in Clementine, I'm a mom.
[5:56]And I'm a mom to a son. I just have, I have one child, not a just. I have one amazing child. I hit the jackpot and that I love how you said that in the book too.
[6:06]There was all this pressure about you have a second, you always had to be like, well, we're just kind of one, you know, yeah, yeah, we have one, they're not shoes, you don't have.
[6:15]Exactly, that's what you said. Yeah, every family is different, but I would do anything for my kid.
[6:20]You know, and that's how that's how Clementine feels. I think that's how a lot of moms feel, you know, and we take on so many extra responsibilities and we push ourselves, not just for ourselves, but because we're doing it for our children.
[6:33]So there's a bit of me in every single one of the wise women and I was hoping that readers would see that as well.
[6:40]Absolutely. Especially, I mean, Jonah's not, I don't want to say like full on special needs, but his.
[6:47]He has a society.
[6:48]Yeah, he has anxiety and really focuses intently on different things and likes his routines the way they are. And I just so felt it when when Clementine's life was totally getting all just turned upside down.
[7:01]She was sort of like, I could do with it, but Jonah, you know, like he finally we finally got it. We've got the tree has to get the backyard. We've got like everything is set.
[7:10]How can I disrupt that and like I found myself reading being like, I don't know like like find a way like how can we solve this problem, you know,
[7:20]I mean, I think that being settled is something that we all want. You know, we want it for ourselves. We want it for our families, but we specially want it for our children.
[7:29]You know, just that they feel that they have a place where they belong and that they feel that they're good.
[7:35]You know, and I know for myself or my own son, I, you know, I'm always was looking at schools for him. Like, where is a good school for him? Like, where is he going to be happy?
[7:43]Where is good community? You know, we moved back from California. My husband and I, we were there for 10 years.
[7:48]And we came back and I was like, this is a huge upheaval for him. And they're the first thing that I thought of us, where's a good school?
[7:54]Where can we go? What's a great neighborhood? You know, we ended up renting the house right across the street from my parents where they lived.
[8:00]Cause I was like, okay, there's some anchors, you know, you're running with your children, those anchors. So that was something that I, yeah, that was just that came out in the book for sure for me.
[8:11]What part of California were you in? We were in Los Angeles. So nice. And so what did you be at?
[8:17]Well, my husband and I were both actors. He still is. And so we had gone down for pilots season a couple of years in a row and then we decided to get our green cards and we moved because we were going to just work full time, you know, in the acting industry.
[8:30]That was our plan. That's everyone's plan. Right. And then in my first year there, I really struggled. Like, I didn't love Los Angeles the way that I thought I would love Los Angeles.
[8:39]I loved New York. I moved to New York, you know, for theater school when I was much younger. And I instantly was like, this is home. I got it. I understood it. It just made sense to me.
[8:48]But I'm not someone who loves to drive and I travel everywhere on foot and Los Angeles was really challenging, you know, and which is very spread out. And so I also spent so much time there waiting.
[8:59]Like in Canada, I was busy or as an actor. There's more work. It doesn't pay as well. You know, there's, but you can work more often, right. And they're like, I would get a gig and it's great.
[9:08]And, you know, it might be lucrative, but there could be like six months in between.
[9:12]And the waiting I'm not good with. I'm a busy person. I like to feel creative. I like to feel like I'm doing something. And so in between one of these gigs.
[9:21]I decided to take a writing course at UCLA extension. And that's where I met my writing mentor, which is Caroline Levitt, who, you know, my Caroline Levitt. Yes.
[9:30]I love Caroline. I adore her. And actually, it's a really good friend of mine. It would be really good friends.
[9:36]So I was taking the course and then I thought, Oh, there's more courses I can take and be a bit type A. I was like, Oh, wow, they have this creative writing program for three years.
[9:43]I could do that. And so, you know, I ended up taking their creative writing program at UCLA extension. And I just in long form fiction. And I just loved it. And Caroline Levitt was a huge champion of mine and still is.
[9:54]She's a great friend. And she really cheerleader me through the whole process of getting my first book out into the world.
[10:00]you know, she read my first manuscript and she was like, this is a novel you have to finish it.
[10:04]And so I did and I just I had great teachers there Robert Evers is another great teacher,
[10:09]but it just going to you silly it changed my life and it made me realize that
[10:15]although I'd gone to Los Angeles to be an actor, the thing I love most about acting and
[10:19]I always love the most about acting is the storytelling. You know, I would spend all my time with
[10:24]my scripts, you know, or with my plays when I was in New York. Like that's the thing I love the
[10:28]most. And as an actor, you only do part of that. You know, and you often have to wait for the
[10:32]opportunity or wait for the right agent or wait for the right casting director or the callback of
[10:36]you're always waiting. And I just I'm not good with it as I said. And so to have a chance to just work
[10:41]on story. I was like, you know, maybe this is what I really should be doing. And writing had always
[10:46]been my first love. And I'd always written to give myself opportunities like plays or short films.
[10:52]So it really gave me a chance to return to it. Now you can turn this into
[10:57]and you know, because now it's like a thing already. Is it being turned into something?
[11:01]I hope so. It's being looked at, which is nice. And so, you know, fingers crossed. It would be
[11:05]really great. I mean, I would love that. And of course, I don't want any part in it. You know,
[11:10]maybe like somebody offered a corner like sipping coffee or something. It's been a long time since
[11:15]I've been in front of the camera. And I'm much happier, much happier in front of the only screen being
[11:19]my computer screen. Right. After all these days. Were you, and sorry, I should know this, were you
[11:26]in anything like everybody would say? Yeah, you know, I did. I did a lot of sketch comedy. And so
[11:30]I was at second city. I did the touring company there. I did second city main stage. And then I
[11:35]did a lot of family shows. I did a show called the naughty shop based on the Enid Blighten books from
[11:40]Britain. And that's a BBC Kids production. I did that for a couple of years. Those were my first
[11:45]big gig. And it was an animal rescuer. So I worked with animals and children and puppets. The
[11:51]three, like the trifecta thing you're not supposed to do. Terrify. So it was a lot of fun. And
[11:57]there's a whole, like a whole, who's who of Canadian comedy actors, which was really nice. And then
[12:02]I did a show called the Zach files. And I another show for BBC called I Love Mummy, where there's a
[12:07]mummy in our, you know, as one, as happens, we discovered a mummy living in our attic, who's a
[12:12]teenage boy. And as one does. And you know, I had smaller parts and bigger films like
[12:17]Hadalus a guy in 10 days. You know, I was a sarcastic vegetarian waitress and things like that
[12:22]that were, you know, that were a lot of fun. It's funny because my last gig that I ended up doing
[12:26]in Los Angeles was on, I want to say it was on a law and order of Los Angeles, I think it was.
[12:32]And it was a Canadian director who I knew and like who I knew of who had gone down there to work.
[12:37]And I was just sort of deciding whether or not I was going to come back and do it. And I
[12:40]think at the time I was pregnant with my son, but I hadn't told anyone. And he was talking about
[12:45]what are you going to do next. I'm like, well, there's this thing. You know, I'm also writing
[12:49]me. He's like, my wife is an author. And he went out. He got her like her book from the trunk of
[12:54]his car. And I did it to me. And I was just like, okay, this is a sign. These are all like things
[12:59]that like, I'm in like, this is the perfect gig to go out on with like a great show that I'd
[13:04]always watch in a law and order. And it was a really nice part in the cruise grade. It was
[13:08]Canadian director and write us just like, it all just seemed to be like, it's okay. You can,
[13:12]you can go off, Gina. You can do this. Well, now I take away from that is I will now stock my
[13:18]husband's car with my books. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. You just have them in the trunk. You're such a good
[13:22]guy. Oh, you have to. Yeah, you have to. Yeah, you have to. You have to. Oh, I guess the box of the
[13:25]new book all the time. I should give them my own trunk. That's really funny. I know. That's
[13:31]silly. Anyway, I know you set with all these famous people too, right? So they could hold up and
[13:35]take a picture, which is something, you know, that's another good. And look at you always marketing.
[13:39]I like it. No, we were joking before we started recording about, you know, the marketing of
[13:45]books and the packaging and how much I was saying how much I adore this cover, which for those
[13:50]listening is, you know, my favorite color blue background with these bright, beautiful hot pink and
[13:58]orange and neon green flowers on the outsides, which I didn't describe very well with like a
[14:04]lime green spine with hot pink and blue. I mean, it's so fun. It's so great. So we tell me about
[14:09]the process of arriving at this. Well, I love the covers. I'm glad you love it too. I really love
[14:15]it. And I think it covers so important. And I know we're not supposed to judge a book by its cover,
[14:19]but we know we do. And there's such competition out there, right? That if it can catch somebody's
[14:23]eye, then Harry, courage them to pick it up like all the better. For me, I always, I want the
[14:29]cover to either can you get something that happens within the book, but there's so many different
[14:33]things going on in this book that I thought it's just going to be a jumble. It's going to be a
[14:36]mass, you know? And so the other thing that I thought of is what if I could convey the feeling of the
[14:41]book, you know, make the cover evocative of that? And this book is really intended to be hopeful,
[14:45]you know, even though it starts off with all of the three wise women in crisis at the beginning of
[14:49]the book, facing a future that looks really uncertain, it's the idea that they come together,
[14:54]you know, they're all very different like all those different colors of the flower, you know,
[14:58]and they come together and that there is something better on the horizon, even though the future
[15:03]isn't necessarily what they thought it would look like. It's possible that it could be even better
[15:06]than they hoped. And so I wanted that things, that feeling of things are looking at that blue sky,
[15:11]you know, brighter days ahead, and so that when people looked at they had that feeling,
[15:15]and that's what I really hope we'd also carry in once they opened up the book. I love that.
[15:20]That's good. So yeah, I didn't even think blue sky when I looked at that, but I just,
[15:22]but I got the same vibe. So I guess that's... Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's a happy making. It's happy
[15:27]making. That's at least I hope it is. And have you been surprised by sort of the machinery required
[15:33]to get a book into the world so far? Yeah, I had, you know, it's interesting because this is,
[15:39]in many ways, it's my debut because it's my first year to bake house, you know, and but I had a
[15:43]book before this five years ago, a much smaller book called Mothers and Other Strangers,
[15:47]and that was at an indie press. And so I worked really, really, really hard to spread the word
[15:52]about that book. And everything about that book was hard to get, you know, finding an age for
[15:56]that book was hard, getting a publisher for that book was hard. And then the book did really well
[16:00]considering and it was really well received. I'm very proud of it had nice reviews and all of that
[16:04]goodness. But I, I felt like a pound of the pavement, like talk about like having books in the trunk
[16:09]of your car. Like that was me, you know, I was like, oh hey, I know she's got this little free stand
[16:13]here. What is your book here? I can sign you some books. I remember saying, I remember going into
[16:20]bookstores with my book and being like, I could just give you 10 copies. And if you don't sell them,
[16:24]you can just give them back to me and they're like, okay, it's not how it works.
[16:28]So, you know, people were really great about it, but I was really pounding the pavement because
[16:33]we had limited resources. You know, so I had hired an independent publicist and we worked, you know,
[16:38]sort of handed hand and everybody did as much as they could, but it was all hands on deck.
[16:43]So this time around, you know, I met a much bigger publisher and with Harper Collins and they're
[16:47]wonderful and they've been incredibly supportive and it's a really great team, but I still
[16:53]hired an independent publicist because that's just what I know. And that's how I feel comfortable.
[16:57]And I like to be really involved and I can't annoy them all the time at Harper Collins, but, you know,
[17:03]and so I was just, I guess I just felt like it would be maybe easier in some ways to launch a
[17:10]book in the world. And I don't think it is. You know, I think it's always all hands on deck because
[17:15]it's like I've taken that whole experience and I've just put it into another sphere. You know,
[17:19]there are more books. There's more exposure. There, the stakes are higher. You know, they
[17:26]authors who I'm hoping to share shelves with, you know, are at a higher, like you have a higher
[17:31]profile. So I feel like everything has been raised in terms of stakes and expectations, you know,
[17:35]especially and on myself as well. So that has been really, it's been really demanding as part
[17:41]of the process. And I'm so used to, I still have told someone wasn't going to use this word as much
[17:47]anymore, but it really does fit of hustling. You know, I'm so used to hustling and getting the
[17:51]world word out and making my own opportunities and creating that that now I'm just bringing all of
[17:55]that to a team that can really run with it as well and support me with that. So that's been a
[18:00]really positive change. But it's a lot, you know, as we were talking earlier, you have to get
[18:05]people to go from, hey, I heard you have a book to, oh, I saw you've got this great review that's
[18:10]so excellent. Oh, I saw your book in the bookstore to then buy the book, you know, which is
[18:17]challenging. And I know that not everyone can buy books. So I'll say things like requested at your
[18:21]library, like you can get them to buy a copy. That's great. You know, and if they see that that
[18:25]copy's taken out, they may be love by five or 10 or 15, you know, but it's just, and I have friends who
[18:31]say, like, I'm just going to wait till the paperback. And I think, okay, but so far for now, you know,
[18:40]we'll see what happens. And I have other friends who have a bunch of friends who are like,
[18:43]yeah, I bought 10 copies. And that's it. I'm giving it to everybody for their birthday. This is it,
[18:48]you know, and these poor people, like every time I write a book, they know this is all they're getting
[18:51]for their birthday. A couple of my girlfriends are like, oh, are you getting your friends book again?
[18:57]Yep, you're getting my friends book. Happy birthday. Happy Thanksgiving, whatever it is, like it's,
[19:04]you know, one of my friends is actually an old neighbor of mine. She's lovely. She said,
[19:08]you know what, I just decided that nobody needed any more wine when they invited me over for dinner.
[19:12]So I brought them a book instead. And I said, oh, that's great. Thank you. And she did that
[19:18]for a whole year. And she's very popular. So media is going to say, this one woman's social life
[19:25]making her breaking a book. Yeah, she moved me on. Who's moving a market? That's right.
[19:33]Yeah, it's challenging. And you have a new book out, right?
[19:36]So you just beautiful. And I can see it behind you. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I have to take them off the
[19:42]shelf. Yeah, I have a new book out. But yeah, and it's a lot of work. Yeah, it's a lot of work.
[19:48]But yeah, it's so funny because I remember being in high school, my high school English teacher
[19:52]had a book come out. And I think by that point, we were all in college. And so a bunch of us went to
[19:57]to his reading at Barnes & Noble or something like that. And.
[20:00]I like bought the book, right?
[20:01]We all brought them to the table signing a lot.
[20:02]And then my one friend was like,
[20:04]she went right up to the counter and she's like,
[20:06]I'm gonna wait for the paperback.
[20:07]And I was like, you can't say that.
[20:09]And I was like, what do you mean?
[20:11]And she's like, I always wait for the paperback.
[20:13]I was like, you can't just like go up to the author
[20:15]and then like not buy the book
[20:17]when he's trying to sell the book, but anyway.
[20:20]But it's great.
[20:21]You know, it's fine.
[20:22]A lot of people only want paperback's,
[20:24]which is fine, but then I was even talking to people.
[20:28]I'm like, why, why don't,
[20:29]why doesn't everyone just release a paperback
[20:31]at the same time as a hardback?
[20:33]It is interesting.
[20:34]When I did Mother's Nether Strangers,
[20:36]it was only released as one of those beautiful,
[20:38]I have trade paperback.
[20:39]So I was gorgeous.
[20:41]But that's how they were doing it.
[20:43]And it did, I think, help people,
[20:45]there had no choice.
[20:46]There was no waiting.
[20:47]They'd nothing to tell me, you know, they had to get it.
[20:49]But I get it.
[20:51]Like there were so many books out there.
[20:53]It's so hard, you know.
[20:54]And, you know, books can be expensive.
[20:56]And, you know, I don't blame anybody for,
[20:59]for doing whatever they do.
[21:00]I just hope that they read it.
[21:01]And even if they like it, maybe they can just spread the word
[21:04]or they're not buying it for them.
[21:05]Well, as they can say, oh my friend read this book,
[21:07]you would love it for your book club.
[21:08]You know, all of that good will,
[21:10]all of that support and that cheerleading,
[21:12]whatever way is available to them,
[21:14]really does make a big difference, totally.
[21:17]Yeah.
[21:18]Emma's all the reviews, everything.
[21:20]Everything happens.
[21:21]Yeah, it all makes a difference.
[21:22]You know, I have friends and family who go
[21:26]into the bookstores and if they see that it's, you know,
[21:28]not just late in the way that they like, they shift it.
[21:31]You know, or they'll, you know,
[21:33]or they'll, like, turn the cover out so it faces
[21:35]for rather than being in the shelf, you know.
[21:37]Yep.
[21:38]Then they'll send me a picture.
[21:39]And that just, it keeps us going, right?
[21:41]It's just nice to see it.
[21:43]The market has turned all the authors
[21:45]into like, you know, these covert operatives.
[21:49]And like, you know, what can we do to help it along?
[21:53]Well, you do to help it along, right?
[21:55]You have this podcast.
[21:56]Yes, I'm trying.
[21:57]I'm trying.
[21:58]And, you know, with the publishing company,
[21:59]we're trying to do things differently to help.
[22:01]But, you know, it is hard.
[22:02]And, but all I can do is try better than not trying.
[22:06]Yeah, exactly.
[22:07]Exactly.
[22:08]I think it all makes a difference.
[22:09]Yes.
[22:10]I think it all makes a difference.
[22:11]Will there be any follow-ups with the wise women?
[22:14]Are you carrying their story on in any way?
[22:16]Are you doing a different book next?
[22:18]What's your plan?
[22:19]You know, I had a couple of people say,
[22:20]oh, I'd like to know what happens next with these women.
[22:23]And I think, I mean, for me,
[22:25]I wonder about it's also what happens next with them, you know?
[22:27]But I love spending time with them, you know?
[22:30]And I think that it was, you know,
[22:32]the books, you know, the book picks up right
[22:34]as they're all in crisis, right?
[22:35]We gave you the book.
[22:36]It's all takes place in New York City.
[22:38]It picks up all in these women or different crisis
[22:39]in their lives and they all have to rally together
[22:41]and overcome their hurts and obstacles
[22:44]and faces uncertain future, you know, move forward.
[22:47]And I know that logically it makes sense
[22:49]that then where do they go from here?
[22:50]And I've had some people that I'd love to see
[22:52]or Wendy goes next.
[22:53]You know, I'd love to see where some of the extra characters
[22:55]like, you know, Samantha Love, the influencer,
[22:57]what happens to her, what does she do next?
[22:59]And so that's always a possibility,
[23:01]but I am actually working on something entirely different
[23:03]right now, you know, I'm working on a story of three friends
[23:07]who were all, they were all working together
[23:09]sort of at a pivotal time in their lives.
[23:10]Like in their early 20s, they met in college.
[23:13]They did a film together.
[23:14]The film was really successful.
[23:15]It affected all of their lives very differently.
[23:18]And we get to see that for a decade
[23:19]and then on their 40th, well, a couple of decades
[23:22]and then on their 40th birthday,
[23:23]they take this big trip to New York
[23:25]and something happens that causes them to not speak.
[23:28]You know, two of them get back in touch,
[23:30]one not at all for another 10 years
[23:33]when they reunite at the film festival
[23:34]that kind of brought them all together in the first place.
[23:37]And so that one's really a book about second chances
[23:40]and, you know, second chances of love,
[23:41]second chances at a career, second chances at friendship.
[23:45]And so I'm having fun exploring that.
[23:47]And that's what it is right now.
[23:48]And we'll see what it ends up being
[23:50]by the time I'm finished revising it.
[23:51]I'm in the revision stage.
[23:52]So, we're exciting.
[23:55]Yeah, it is exciting.
[23:56]And I think that's the best thing to do
[23:58]when you're writing is to write something else.
[24:00]You know, like, it's just like,
[24:03]how's something else going, you know?
[24:04]So you're not perseverating on what's going on over here
[24:06]with my book, kind of all of that stuff.
[24:08]It's just always, that's the only thing you can control
[24:11]is the writing.
[24:12]And so that's what I like to focus on as much as I can.
[24:15]That's true.
[24:16]It's 100% true.
[24:16]Well, for anyone listening,
[24:18]the wise women with this bright blue
[24:20]and pink and orange cover,
[24:23]you will see it at your bookstore, face it forward.
[24:26]That's right.
[24:28]Buy a copy or take a picture of you with it,
[24:30]at least it helps spread the word or something like that.
[24:33]And yeah, I congratulate you,
[24:34]Gina, it's really awesome.
[24:36]I really love the way you write.
[24:37]I'm gonna go back and get your other book now.
[24:39]And yeah, I can't wait to see what you come up with next.
[24:41]I'm so glad.
[24:42]Thank you so much.
[24:43]I really appreciate it.
[24:44]I'm proud.
[24:45]It's so great to be here and best of luck with your book.
[24:47]Thank you.
[24:48]We'll have to chat again and see.
[24:49]I'll see.
[24:50]I'll see you pounding the pavement,
[24:51]holding up pictures of your book
[24:53]and I'll be doing the same.
[24:54]Yes.
[24:55]It's great to be here.
[24:56]It's great to be here.
[24:58]All right.
[24:58]Okay, Gina, take care.
[25:00]Have a great day.
[25:01]Okay, bye-bye.
[25:03]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[25:05]Don't have time to read books.
[25:06]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[25:08]at Zebioans and at Moms.
[25:10]Don't have time to read books.
[25:11]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[25:14]and sign up for my virtual book club
[25:16]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[25:18]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan
[25:20]in fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[25:22]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[25:24]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.