Jane L. Rosen, A SHOE STORY
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, the creator and host of the award-winning podcast that you're listening to right now
[0:07]Thank you so much. Called moms. Don't have time to read books
[0:10]It is a daily podcast
[0:12]365 days a year and each day we talk to an author about all of the things related to their career
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[0:22]I am now an author myself
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[0:43]Also be sure to check out all the other podcasts in the zcast podcast network
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[0:54]Jane L. Rosen is the author of a shoe story
[1:01]She is an author screenwriter and Huffington Post contributor
[1:04]She lives in New York City and Fire Island with her husband and three daughters
[1:08]She often takes inspiration from the city
[1:10]She lives in and the people she shares it with in addition to her writing
[1:14]She spent time in film television and event production and is the co-founder of it's all gravy LLC
[1:20]Her last book Eliza starts a rumor was also featured on this podcast
[1:25]Welcome Jane. Thank you so much for coming on moms
[1:27]Don't have time to read books again to discuss a shoe story and novel. Thank you so much for having me on moms
[1:33]Don't have time to read books again
[1:35]Sorry, I was sort of saving this to saver and it did not disappoint
[1:41]So thank you for this really immersive
[1:44]Read tell listeners about how you came up with this particular idea and also what it's about
[1:50]A shoe story is about a girl. It has me now
[1:53]She's graduating Dartmouth with big plans to move to New York City with her boyfriend and work at this fantastic art gallery and everything gets turned upside down
[2:03]And
[2:04]Seven years later she gets the chance to try it out again
[2:08]And it's basically a story of second chances and old loves and new loves and
[2:15]Just life grab in life not letting life go by using that and watch the wrong at you
[2:20]Not, you know, just accepting the decisions that maybe need one star to write once for later on
[2:26]And that is never too late. So
[2:29]That's what it's about. I thought of it in a much different way
[2:33]It was was actually a book that I already worked on finished and it had like an Esme Nash was still there
[2:39]But it was involved in the psychiatrist but all these other things in it didn't sell and then I
[2:44]Put it in a draw and then I realized the start to remember and I took it out again and revamped it
[2:49]That's the story of Esme Nash
[2:51]Wow
[2:52]Esme goes through this horrific
[2:55]you know
[2:56]emotional
[2:57]tragedy
[2:58]in the beginning and then
[3:00]Not only do her parents get in this awful
[3:03]beyond awful accident but
[3:06]She has to deal with her father being paralyzed and being his primary caretaker and the effects of that
[3:12]How did you tap into that piece of the puzzle and like how something so traumatic would then affect
[3:20]The rest of life you have Esme deciding
[3:23]That she barely knows who she is anymore
[3:25]So she might as well just you know answer and add and go to the city and dogs it and like try to make a whole new life for
[3:31]herself
[3:31]Why not and that's at the advice and someone from the memorial service which I found very interesting also
[3:36]Was that always I mean
[3:38]I just feel like it's so complicated that type of extreme loss and
[3:42]The depletion after all that caretaking
[3:46]Just talk a little bit about that and and her decision to up and try something new right then
[3:53]Yeah, when I was Esme's age
[3:55]My brain in a college my sister was very ill and she lived in Maryland where he comes to school
[4:00]I was the very much thought like I'm just gonna drop my job drop my boyfriend drop everything just go back and
[4:06]To Maryland to help her and uproot my life like that and I think like
[4:11]When you're in a situation where your family needs help you often just
[4:15]You throw your life aside very easily but for Esme
[4:19]it was seven years and
[4:23]I mean how do you start back after that so her choice to go do this like on a whim kind of thing and go live somewhere for a month
[4:31]I thought was was like a clear choice for her because
[4:35]If she wasn't gonna do it that way
[4:37]She was gonna have to pick up to side in a job getting apartment
[4:40]This was like a great opportunity to film in her lab and I mean, I think she was smart to take the opportunity and
[4:47]I mean
[4:49]Yeah, that answered the question. Yes
[4:52]Yeah, it was a great, you know, gig for her and I think when you're in that really fragile state
[4:56]You don't know what's happened once down you could do something like that because maybe you just want to escape a little and just
[5:02]Juicing for yourself. I mean after all those years. We've taken care of someone else
[5:06]I love how you have her end up in an apartment of such a shoe lover
[5:12]This is like beyond Cary Bradja that the kitchen pantry becomes the shoe closet
[5:17]That's pretty genius. Have you actually seen that before or it wasn't I have seen that and I saw like if you google like shoe pantry
[5:25]It's like actually a thing that some people do. Oh my gosh
[5:28]He's far obsessed with their shoes. They put them out like pieces of art and for someone
[5:35]Like the woman who owns the shoe closet who doesn't really have that much else going on
[5:41]It makes sense to me that like she had control over these shoes and she spent her money on the shoes
[5:46]And it seemed like one of the only things she had a real, you know
[5:51]Lock on in our life or she was so and and even like with asthma wearing them
[5:57]At first they were you know the publishers and you can't do that. It makes her unlikable that she's wearing shoes
[6:01]But then we came up with the fact that there was a little misunderstanding and she thought she had permission to wear them
[6:07]Tell me a shoe story from your own life. Well, I might just tell you that last week
[6:11]I went to Nordstrom with because we're having the book of being there and I went with this
[6:17]Great young girl named Katie Belotti and she helped me film the video and they took out all the shoes from a shoe story
[6:25]And she was the same size smell and eight she's neat and we tried them on and it was like
[6:30]Quite unbelievable to try and that many pair of gorgeous shoes that are all over a thousand dollars like
[6:36]Their beautiful. I mean one was more beautiful than the next
[6:41]So that was a kind of great shoe story that we just I just experienced and for this kid
[6:45]She was like, you know, she never tried on anything like this and you just won after the next but for me
[6:51]my best shoe story I wrote at the back of
[6:53]The paperback from behind the book. I was going to an interview not an interview
[6:58]I was going to talk to an editor at Little Brown
[7:00]There's a long time ago before I was screenwriter and I was wearing those landing shoes that are like
[7:07]They're kind of tight around me around the instep
[7:10]And I'm in the cab and I'm nervous when I get in the cab and I'm nervous. I just talked to the cab driver
[7:16]Like it's my best friend. So I'm talking. I'm talking. I don't shut up
[7:20]And I'm telling him I'm going to Little Brown. I say it's an interview because it was more
[7:24]understandable and explaining the whole, you know
[7:26]What was really going on and
[7:28]He goes as long as you're not wearing those red bottom shoes
[7:32]And he was like from Senegal. I'm like, you know what the red bottom is like
[7:35]Everybody in New York seniors with the red bottom shoes
[7:38]And I said, why should I be wearing them and he said you won't be hungry enough that they see you in those red bottom shoes
[7:44]So I was thankful that my shoes were all the fancy not red bottom
[7:49]Okay, so yeah, are you like a massive like what are you what shoes are you wearing now?
[7:54]What's you what are you a massive shoe person?
[7:56]I'm barefoot
[7:57]Okay, I'm a new person
[7:59]They used to be when I
[8:01]First moved into the city
[8:02]I think when I first had children and first lived on the upper east side
[8:05]Where all the sudden the status kind of came from your shoes and a white shoes and bags
[8:10]All of a sudden I found myself going and buying like one good pair of, you know
[8:15]Red bottom shoes and one pair of Gucci loafers, you know a little selection and I was more
[8:21]I was into it that but the truth is after COVID my feet are very hard to wear heels
[8:27]I still love a great pair of shoes, but it's much harder
[8:30]I think that's for me to wear heels. Maybe it's my age
[8:33]Maybe it's two years of wearing them. I don't know, but I love a good pair of like loafers sandals flats
[8:40]And I actually I love my Birkenstocks. I have like so many pairs and blue, sweet and brown, sweet and I love them
[8:48]Do you like shoes?
[8:49]No, not a shoe
[8:51]I mean, I don't know. Not really. I like to be comfortable. I don't know
[8:56]Right. Yeah, maybe I just don't have good enough taste or something. I don't know
[9:00]They're all just so uncomfortable, but let's talk about dogs too
[9:04]So going to the dog run is like another one of Esme's things as a dog sitter
[9:08]And she'd be friends and elderly gentlemen who's basically like Eli Zabar who essentially or something
[9:15]What he's actually based on Sal Zabar. It's actually how I really got the idea for the book
[9:20]to be with now that I think that I was on Sal Zabar's my neighbor in Fire Island
[9:24]So I'm sorry to interrupt to you
[9:26]He was on the ferry with me going to Fire Island
[9:30]Esme's 92. I think now there was a couple of years ago
[9:34]And he starts talking and chatting and chatting and chatting and chatting like really chatting like really into talking to me
[9:40]I said so chatting today, and he said I don't have any friends. They're all my friends in debt
[9:47]I was like what he's like I was thinking of going to a psychiatrist because all my friends are dead
[9:51]And I've known to talk to so I was like that was it
[9:54]I was like there's my book like this old guy goes to a psychiatrist. I don't know how I figured out
[10:00]of a whole thing. But anyway, as night befriended the old guy and
[10:03]the old book too, and it was this whole thing for him to have
[10:06]so much to talk to, which is basically how I came up with it. But
[10:10]aside from that little saws, they have our connection, a lot of
[10:14]size story is based on my dad and my mom. So like the whole meat,
[10:19]their whole meat cute, that was how my parents met. No way.
[10:23]Yeah, exactly. And obviously my parents got married. So it was a
[10:28]different, you know, I switched the story around. But the whole
[10:32]time that sigh is in World War Two in this book is exactly my
[10:36]father's journey in World War Two. It's taken from like his
[10:40]Coast Guard boat number. I tracked everywhere it went. I found
[10:43]like old letters that he sent to his mom, you know, old
[10:48]redacted and everything. And some of the words are exactly from
[10:53]that. That was great. Because my dad died when I was 11. So to be
[10:59]able to spend this time with him and go through his journey in
[11:02]the war, which of course you never spoke about to me for sure, but
[11:06]probably hardly ever anyone. Because people don't talk about that.
[11:10]That was a really great experience for me. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I
[11:14]love size part of the book. I love that. And that is exactly from
[11:18]the other book. So back about really changing all. Interesting.
[11:22]Yeah. I love that piece of it. Really interesting. And I was
[11:27]like, where did she come up with that? It was great. Even just
[11:29]the notion as we all get older that like, who's to say you're
[11:33]ready to retire when you're 90? Like what makes you want to stop?
[11:37]And he's like, I'm going to live out my non compete and wait
[11:40]and start my business. That was awesome. Oh, it's true. Right. And
[11:46]imagine it's like all of a sudden you're like, Oh, I can't go
[11:49]into the store every day, which is what I've been doing my entire
[11:51]life. It's crazy. Yeah. That's why you hear that. I feel like
[11:56]you hear about people literally like dying when they have
[11:59]nothing. I mean, your whole life's purpose is gone. It's true.
[12:03]That's what they say. If you don't like the third thing, I'm
[12:06]staying alive to 100 or something is to keep working. All right.
[12:10]Well, I think we're both on a good track then. I can't. I hope I
[12:15]never have to. We'll see by those books, please. Do you have
[12:23]another book like in the Hopper for the next release already? I
[12:27]do. I already turned it in. You already turned it in. Oh, my
[12:30]gosh. My dog has dementia. She's walking around in circles.
[12:34]I think it's creepy on your podcast. No, I can't hear
[12:38]that. Yes, my next book is called On Fire Island. And it's
[12:43]coming out next May or June. And I'm very excited about it.
[12:48]So cool. Also, something I was working on for a long time. I
[12:51]wrote it as a screenplay. And it was actually at Weinstein when
[12:55]they had folded. Please, did I see an early cover of this or am
[12:58]I losing my mind? There was a new book came up this year called
[13:02]Fire Island, which is so funny. Maybe that's what you're talking
[13:04]about. I showed you. I showed you. He did, right? That I wanted
[13:10]to use. Yes, I found this photograph for this great
[13:15]photographer out there. I was like, wow, this is perfect. But we'll
[13:21]see, you know, it's far off. But it really has my heart and soul
[13:25]that one. Do you feel like you are less nervous with subsequent
[13:32]book releases? Like, does it get easier each time you release a
[13:36]book or does it not? Or does it get harder? I think it gets
[13:40]harder. I'll tell you why. The first time you have no idea what's
[13:46]going on. I mean, I had no idea what's going on. Who expected
[13:50]anyone to read the book besides my family? You know what I mean?
[13:52]Like, you just didn't know. I didn't know that all these
[13:55]reviews would come out. I didn't know that you could like even
[13:57]go on Amazon, look up your book. And some woman in like Albert
[14:01]Kirky would say something horrible about it. And you get
[14:05]stuck in your head. And that's all you would think, even though
[14:08]everything or if you're already liked it, you'd think it's
[14:11]total crap. Because Sue from Albuquerque says it's total crap. So
[14:17]I think the more you know, the harder it kind of gets. Do you know
[14:21]anything about that? Now I know too much. I know to be able to look
[14:25]on my Amazon rankings. I didn't even know that until the second
[14:28]half of Eliza starts to rumor. I didn't know there was a little
[14:31]number that told you how your books were selling. There's just
[14:33]so many things that you learned. I hate that too. I hate that
[14:39]other people can see it. It's so public. And then like your
[14:43]book scan numbers, they have, I didn't know about that either
[14:46]that there was like, you know, that any other publisher can
[14:49]can just click over and check out how many book sales. Like it's
[14:53]it's almost it feels like it's like literally like something
[14:58]into my private closet. Like they're head around to like
[15:01]being like, what's in here? What do we know? What do we see?
[15:06]So I think that we're viewing of the like I think that people like the
[15:09]review of that game. Some people write amazing reviews, but some
[15:13]people review a book like literally the way you reviewed it
[15:17]back here. You know, like the cover was ripped. Zero stars.
[15:23]I'll send you another one first. This family event. It's like, I loved it. I
[15:30]loved it so much. And then she gave it four stars. I was like,
[15:33]oh, I was like, what? I don't even know. I was like, okay,
[15:38]whatever. It is so funny. I'm just like, yeah. I think some people
[15:43]think like, I don't know. I don't know what they're thinking.
[15:46]I don't know. But someone from Eliza starts a rumor,
[15:49]which the reviews were excellent. But there's one woman wrote,
[15:53]oof. That's what she wrote, oof, with an exclamation point.
[15:57]And if I tell you, 100 million good reviews could come by. And all I
[16:01]could ever think was, oof. I mean, that that's just part of my own
[16:04]problem. You know, no, it's not just your problem. I'm like, who is the
[16:08]person out there? Who's like, I'm going to take the time to leave
[16:11]a review that says meh. I'm like, just don't write me that
[16:17]review. Like, like, what is it? It's not worse. I think
[16:22]oof is worse than that. Really? And meh. Period.
[16:25]Yes, meh is like meh. Oof is like, oof. Like, I don't know.
[16:32]Oof could be like, what a great book. I read it in a hurry.
[16:36]Oof. I don't know. I think. Oof. I do do do do again.
[16:42]Oh, like, there must be some funny article about, like, terrible
[16:46]book reviews. Isn't that something or something? Anyway. Okay. So for
[16:50]people who are starting out writing, when you get an idea for a story,
[16:55]what do you do first? I try and make a quick note of it on my phone.
[17:00]I'm doing something like a cat in very like words or book titles,
[17:03]which is like, and just because you think you're going to remember things,
[17:07]and you just don't. And then if I'm really writing the book, like,
[17:10]I'm really dead set on this idea. I spend a ton of days, nights and
[17:16]subway rides and whatever I'm doing, just like ruminating and thinking
[17:19]about these characters and the story and the people. And I really think so much
[17:25]before I even put, you know, Pennsylvania work, not really.
[17:29]English to keyboard. And then I start writing a little bit. So seeing how it
[17:34]flows, how the voice goes. And then I usually make an outline.
[17:38]I make an outline on index cards, like one for every chapter.
[17:41]And I make the whole outline, start to finish. And then I never look at it
[17:45]again. But I just need to know like that it's there.
[17:49]It's bizarre. But I literally, I've done a crappy book and I've never looked
[17:53]to them again. Wow. And that's what I do.
[17:56]It's kind of like someone recently, not Jane Eyre.
[17:59]Some Amanda Airward, who are the jet setters and the live cards, whatever.
[18:03]And she writes all the upcoming scenes she's going to write on a little
[18:06]note card, so that if she goes to the library or something, she just brings like
[18:09]the two scenes or the four scenes that she's going to work on.
[18:13]Oh, that's kind of interesting. That's very interesting. I mean, I do have a,
[18:18]I write on my phone sometimes, like, I don't always write linearly, like, now, like,
[18:22]I used to very much be like that. But then lately, I've just been like writing
[18:26]what I feel. I write about someone. I don't know what was who said that they
[18:31]wrote this when I was so amazed. And I tried to look at it with
[18:34]my own book and it was really kind of great. Because you're sometimes like in the
[18:38]mood for one thing or in the mood for another thing. And I could even just
[18:41]write it on the notes of my phone sometimes. If that's like when it's flowing, you
[18:46]know? Yeah. Sometimes I write like much better in its
[18:52]in tremendous noise. Like, I was stuck with a lives in such a room or on
[18:57]something that my editor wants to be in a change. And I was wheeled and
[19:00]stuck on it. And I couldn't figure it out. And I was getting my hair blown out.
[19:04]So there's the blow dryer at one of those places where there was like
[19:08]rap music playing. And they had romantic comedies on the
[19:13]screen in front of you. So think about all that noise. And I figured out the whole
[19:17]thing. Like it was sometimes that major noise makes you think better than
[19:22]quiet. You could just, I don't know, pull it out of a hat.
[19:25]I have an idea that they could be cool. You should try to do a contest where
[19:31]people write a personal essay, their own shoe story, you know?
[19:35]That's a great idea. Right, a shoe story. And if you want, I could even do it on,
[19:40]you, I mean, you could do it with, I mean, you have multiple platforms that you could
[19:44]do this. No, I love you on platform. It's my favorite shoe story.
[19:48]Well, I could do like a contest and mom's don't have time to your new
[19:51]say and say we're doing a little contest right your shoe story and we'll put
[19:55]the best one up here. And more than that. Yeah.
[20:00]been working with so many shoe designers. Ooh! So maybe we could get some really cool shoe
[20:06]products. Ooh, yes. Yeah, definitely. Like, so when we needed a shoe story, I just put my marketing
[20:15]hat on and I've been talking like, Lou Baton's doing something for me in August,
[20:19]Nubitin, I don't know how to say, in the Hamptons. And Faragama was doing some of the
[20:25]follow through their stores. And Nine West has been like a tremendous partner. Wow. Yeah,
[20:31]they're doing all kinds of stuff. If you order the book, well, this is coming out afterwards,
[20:35]but before, you know, pre-ordering it, you've got 15% off Nine West. And they sent me some shoes.
[20:43]And Nordstrom is making the big focal seats for me. So the shoe angle ended up being very fun.
[20:49]Yeah, so work with. That's awesome. Okay, we'll do that. We'll do like, get your essay published
[20:54]and win a pair of new shoes. I love that from a designer, hopefully. Okay,
[21:00]level talk after. But awesome. Okay, parting advice to aspiring authors?
[21:06]Don't give up. Keep writing. Keep writing. Keep writing. Keep writing. How
[21:10]you get rejected, because you will get rejected, put it in the draw and start something else.
[21:14]If you don't give up, you will be successful. If you give up, there's no way you'll be
[21:20]successful. So don't give up. Very true. Awesome. Well, Jane, I am so excited for our event together,
[21:26]August 1412, August 12th at five at five at the Bridgehampton Library. So for people listening,
[21:36]please come hear more of us chit chatting and maybe we'll bring some new shoes stories to discuss.
[21:41]We'll talk about zippy questions too. So it's very fun. Very fun. All right. Thank you, Jane.
[21:48]Thank you. Good luck tomorrow. Thanks. Thank you. Bye.
[21:52]Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't
[21:58]forget to follow me on Instagram at zippyowans and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[22:03]Also sign up for my newsletter at zippyowans.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[22:08]of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for
[22:12]the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[22:17]now trim music.