Eliza Reid, SECRETS OF THE SPRAKKAR: Iceland's Extraordinary Women and How They Are Changing the World
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[0:58]Eliza Reed is the first lady of Iceland
[1:01]She is the author of Secrets of the Spracker Iceland's Extraordinary Women and how they are changing the world
[1:08]Eliza is a journalist and editor and co-founder of the annual Iceland
[1:13]Writers retreat which by the way was the first sponsor one of the first sponsors this podcast ever had
[1:18]After growing up on a hobby farm near Ottawa, Canada
[1:21]She went on to earn degrees in international relations in history from the University of Toronto and Oxford University respectively
[1:27]As first lady Eliza has been active in promoting gender equality
[1:31]entrepreneurship and innovation
[1:33]Tourism and sustainability and the country's writers and rich literary history
[1:37]Secrets of the Spracker is her first book
[1:40]Welcome Eliza. Thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books
[1:44]I'm so excited to talk to you your book is called Secrets of the Spracker. Did I pronounce that right?
[1:49]Spracker
[1:49]Yeah, one small island nation the women who live there and how they are changing the world
[1:55]You are also the first lady of Iceland, which is a super cool title to have not everybody can get that
[2:00]But your book is is just truly
[2:03]Amazing because you're writing about the topics that like all women are thinking and talking and writing about right now
[2:09]Here in the US and it's like oh look she saw like the problems been solved. So it's great
[2:16]Well, maybe that's a little optimistic, but we're working on it
[2:19]We're doing our best here. All your your your light years ahead at least I have to say that
[2:24]By the way, you mentioned Dorit in the book
[2:27]She's she's like an old old old old family friend of ours of my dad
[2:31]She's known Dorit forever. I like have known her since I was I don't know like 12 or something anyway
[2:37]So that's oh wow. Yeah, she's been great to me. I
[2:40]For anybody listening. I suppose then you can know that she was the first lady of Iceland before
[2:45]I was the first lady of Iceland and
[2:47]Also foreign born like I am I grew up in Canada
[2:50]So she's been really of a tremendous help to me in terms of giving me good good advice and everything
[2:55]Well, I feel like that's one of the themes of your book in general is that women are helping women through so much
[3:01]Stuff professionally
[3:03]all the time in Iceland and one other thing before I like dive into all the exciting things in the book
[3:09]The Iceland writer's retreat was like my very first podcast sponsor like years
[3:14]Yes, that's right. That's right. Oh my gosh. I couldn't believe it
[3:17]I was like year that Iceland writer's retreats person. I couldn't believe it
[3:21]Yes, so we have we have a lot of connections. I think wow is that still is that going on even still going we yeah
[3:28]We just finished our first in-person event on May the first so
[3:34]It's we recently finished it
[3:35]It was great to go back in person for the first time in three years and we had a terrific time and we're already getting started to have
[3:42]It next year in April in Iceland. I want to come. Can I come? Yeah, for sure
[3:48]I want to be a part of it. I'm I literally finished this book
[3:50]And I was like, I don't know how it's been I was like we're moving to Iceland
[3:53]Like I want to be an Iceland and he was like, why don't we visit it first? Yeah
[3:58]I mean the weather could be okay, but we love books. We love reading here
[4:01]And that's something new we added for the writers retreat this year is something called the icedome readers retreat
[4:05]So anybody who maybe doesn't want to write that much but loves to read books can also come and learn a lot
[4:10]Maybe you should maybe we should back up. Could you explain what the Iceland writers and now readers retreat is for other people
[4:16]Who might want to come because this is a perfect audience for that
[4:20]Absolutely. Yeah, the Iceland writers retreat is an event that I co-founded with a friend of mine in 2014
[4:27]We hold it in Reykjavik, Iceland
[4:29]Which is a UNESCO city of literature and basically it's for anybody who who likes to write and now also likes to read
[4:36]And it's a mixture of small group writing workshops with really well-known authors
[4:40]We bring over from different countries and teach about all kinds of dimensions of writing in small groups
[4:46]And then we also have literary themed tours in Iceland
[4:49]So we take people to see all the natural wonders that the country's known for
[4:52]But our guide is a writer and we stop and have readings on the way
[4:56]And we have a pub night with local music and author
[4:58]So it's really kind of a mix of writing and socialization
[5:03]I'm very excited this old
[5:05]Okay, 2023 event 2023. All right, exciting. Okay, your book talks about your own journey
[5:13]Which I'd love to hearing about maybe you should start with that because your own experience is like so interwoven into the fabric of
[5:20]Why the Iceland policies for women including you know paid parental leave four months of
[5:27]I was just hearing that Morgan Stanley here in the US is giving dad's
[5:31]Four months of leave now too, which I found like mind-blowing
[5:34]But your story is that you're from Canada
[5:37]You met your husband at this random you were both rowers
[5:40]You did a raffle and kind of nudged your way into his contest
[5:45]I still can try to date with him, but you know carpet DM as they say
[5:50]And then eventually became moved to Iceland
[5:54]Why don't you tell it get out of the show?
[5:56]Okay, yeah, no problem because there is I mean the book isn't a memoir per se
[5:59]But there's definitely a strong memoir angle to it all with my own story sort of soon in there in with the stories of other women
[6:07]And you're right
[6:07]I grew up on a like a small town in a hobby farm as we say in Canada
[6:12]rural Canada
[6:13]And I went to graduate school at Oxford University in England
[6:16]And that is where I met my Icelandic husband after contriving a date with him which I talk about in the book
[6:23]And we met we we fell in love and we moved to Iceland in 2003
[6:27]And he is an academic a history professor by background
[6:31]And so we just built a life for ourselves there
[6:33]You know, we had four kids in just under six years and we lived in this tiny little house
[6:38]I worked as a freelance journalist and writer and found the ice and writers retreat
[6:42]He was a professor of history
[6:43]And we just thought that was kind of our life
[6:45]And then in 2016
[6:47]All sort of through all kinds of external events
[6:50]Not least the Panama Papers scandal
[6:53]My husband was sort of encouraged to run for president of the country
[6:57]And he'd never been in politics before he'd never run for office
[7:01]It does help in Iceland that the role of president isn't a political one
[7:05]You're not sort of a member of a political party
[7:07]So that helps a bit
[7:08]But he ran and he won in the span of about two months
[7:12]So we really went from this sort of
[7:15]Tiny every day rather hectic life to being the head of state couple in a few months
[7:21]And it was quite a shift and what I tried to explore a lot in the book
[7:25]Are both these ideas of kind of making the most of an expected opportunity
[7:29]Because all of a sudden I was nationally known in Iceland
[7:32]And also this idea when it comes to gender equality of
[7:36]What it means for one's identity
[7:38]Because I did have this national platform
[7:40]But it was because there's something my husband achieved
[7:42]So all of a sudden I became less known as Eliza
[7:45]And more known as as Goodney's wife
[7:47]And that was kind of a strange shift as well
[7:49]Because I try to explore in the book
[7:51]There is a new show out here
[7:53]I think it's on Amazon Prime video
[7:56]I'm not sure
[7:57]But it was produced actually by a guy I went to college with
[8:00]His name is Aaron Cooley
[8:01]It's called First Wives
[8:03]It's amazing
[8:03]And you'll love it
[8:04]It's about three first wives of American presidents
[8:08]And Michelle Feiffer, the actress, plays Gerald Ford, Betty Ford
[8:12]And then someone have you seen it or do you know what I'm like?
[8:14]I haven't but I've heard of it
[8:15]I haven't heard of this
[8:16]I'll have to watch it while I'm here in the States
[8:18]Well she, yes, you should watch it
[8:19]It reminds me so much of what you're saying
[8:21]Because Gerald Ford didn't intend to become president all of a sudden
[8:25]But Nixon's, you know, yeah, extraction demanded it
[8:29]And she was literally like there's a scene where she's at home
[8:31]Just being like
[8:32]She like kind of slowly closes her eyes
[8:34]And it's like, oh my gosh
[8:35]Yeah, like now I'm going to do this
[8:38]And she's also saying like wait a minute
[8:40]This is not an even Eleanor Roosevelt who has a role in that thing too
[8:43]It's just like
[8:44]Wait, what is my job in the administration
[8:46]And they're like you're the first lady
[8:47]And she's like
[8:48]That is not a job
[8:49]That is
[8:50]No
[8:50]I am, that is me as a wife
[8:52]Like what is my job?
[8:54]So yeah, it just sort of speaks to your experience as well
[8:57]Yes, exactly
[8:58]Please touch on as they say sometimes
[9:00]It's a lot of different
[9:02]Same same
[9:02]But different
[9:03]So I can, I can definitely relate in some senses
[9:06]Obviously in a much, much smaller scale that Iceland is
[9:09]Wow
[9:10]So Iceland
[9:12]Yeah, there's a famous sort of moment where
[9:16]Some, what is her name in parliament
[9:18]Who nursed
[9:19]Yeah, you know, Condo Stiltish
[9:22]Who is famously nursing in parliament
[9:24]And this is like such a symbol of how Iceland embraces
[9:27]Women I'll be it that was a shock at the time
[9:30]But she felt it was so natural
[9:31]Because we'll make my baby has to
[9:33]Nurse and all that
[9:34]Tell me how
[9:36]Iceland has just gotten it right
[9:38]In terms of what they do
[9:39]You spell it out really clearly in the book
[9:41]In many
[9:42]Give many examples and situations
[9:45]From athletics and academics
[9:46]And everything from the way they treat women
[9:49]To systemic ways that they respect women so well
[9:52]But what does it look like when
[9:54]Because every time we talk about busy women in the US
[9:57]Everyone's like, well if, if there was just this leap
[10:00]There was just parental leave.
[10:01]There was just universal daycare.
[10:02]If there was just this, we would all be fine.
[10:04]So what is it like?
[10:06]Well, I mean, certainly these policies are helpful.
[10:09]And I spend a lot of time talking about them
[10:11]in the book, these sort of government-led policies,
[10:14]which include, it's probably the prenatal care,
[10:17]which is part of the healthcare scheme,
[10:18]which is all covered.
[10:19]And generous parental leave schemes
[10:22]so that both parents, it's called user to lose it.
[10:24]It means that both parents are entitled
[10:27]to parental leave that is paid for by the state.
[10:29]And if one parent doesn't wanna use it,
[10:31]the other parent can't use it.
[10:32]So the idea is to encourage both parents to be involved.
[10:35]That was nine months total
[10:36]when I had my children, it's now moved up to a year.
[10:39]So it various governments and parties
[10:41]are always just trying to work
[10:42]to how they can reinforce it.
[10:44]And then after the parental leave is finished,
[10:46]then it really subsidized system of childcare takes over.
[10:49]And that is already subsidized,
[10:52]but it's increasingly subsidized.
[10:54]If you're a single parent, if you're a student,
[10:56]and even if you have children close together
[10:58]as my husband and I did,
[10:59]you get these sibling discounts they're called.
[11:02]So that basically really creates an infrastructure
[11:05]for families that enables them to hopefully choose
[11:09]that the size of their family more based on what they want
[11:12]rather than what they can afford.
[11:14]But also what I'm trying to do with the book really
[11:16]is hopefully inspire people on an individual level.
[11:19]It's like what you mentioned,
[11:20]the sort of endemic awareness of gender equality.
[11:25]I don't wanna say that it's perfect, absolutely,
[11:27]but I think we've really moved a lot
[11:29]as a society overall past the tipping point of debating
[11:32]if this is an important goal for societies
[11:35]to more how we're going to get there.
[11:37]Because we realize that working towards achieving
[11:40]gender equality is not a zero sum game
[11:42]where one group benefits at the expense of another group.
[11:45]It's something that benefits people
[11:47]of all genders throughout society.
[11:49]And that's just a good thing, I think.
[11:51]So now we're trying to work on how we go about doing that.
[11:56]You have a scene in the book
[11:57]where your husband wants to step for a banana.
[12:00]Or say, we sell that, sorry.
[12:03]I tease him about this all the time.
[12:05]So my husband also has a daughter from his first marriage.
[12:08]So he is a more experienced parent than I am.
[12:11]And this was when we had our first child together, our son.
[12:15]And he was taking his paternity leave.
[12:17]But I was working from home, I was still nursing him.
[12:20]So I'd go out and nurse him and then I'd go back
[12:21]to my office and work.
[12:23]And he was getting ready to go out for the day.
[12:25]He said he was going to go with him.
[12:27]I think to the archives, because he's a historian.
[12:29]And then to a sort of mommy and me kind of club.
[12:33]And then they were going to go for a walk.
[12:34]And he had a whole day planned.
[12:36]But all he had with him, well, he had nothing with him.
[12:39]But they're baby.
[12:40]He just had, he didn't have a diaper bag.
[12:41]He didn't have drinks.
[12:42]He didn't have food, he didn't have anything.
[12:44]And I remember I couldn't resist.
[12:46]I think I know parents have different styles.
[12:49]But I have to say something.
[12:51]And I said, do you want anything?
[12:53]And he said, yeah, I'm going to buy a banana at the store
[12:55]on the way.
[12:56]And still nothing, nothing to how to feed the banana
[12:59]to the baby.
[13:00]Or if there was some diaper mishap or anything.
[13:03]And it was just like two guys out to see the world.
[13:07]And but there's still kind of a double standard there.
[13:09]Because I think as a man, if he went out
[13:12]and there was a diaper disaster that I think all mothers
[13:16]know about, people would have thought
[13:18]it was kind of endearing and cute how he was dealing with it.
[13:21]Whereas I think women might have been judged
[13:23]a little more harshly.
[13:24]Oh my gosh.
[13:26]So what does this mean for the individual woman?
[13:30]Like how does the individual mom sort of interpret
[13:34]all of the government support and policies
[13:37]and wake up to motherhood?
[13:40]Like when do they know, the women of Iceland
[13:43]know that they're very lucky in contrast?
[13:45]What does it mean?
[13:46]Do they end up becoming more successful?
[13:49]Are there fewer tiers on the bathroom floor?
[13:51]Like what, how does it drill down to the individual mom?
[13:56]I mean, I'm sure there are still tiers
[13:57]on the bathroom floor, obviously.
[13:59]Like my sense, without ever having lived in the US,
[14:02]but having lived in Iceland for two decades now most,
[14:05]is that there's probably less judgment
[14:07]as the sort of either or.
[14:09]Like either you have to be a really successful,
[14:12]if you're a parent, either you have to be
[14:13]a really successful career woman or a good mother.
[14:17]But it's very hard to be both.
[14:19]Again, I don't want to, you know,
[14:21]it's definitely not a paradise in Iceland,
[14:22]but I think that the sense is more that you are not a bad parent
[14:26]if you have a full-time job outside of the home.
[14:29]If anything, there's more stigma for mothers
[14:31]who choose to stay at home.
[14:33]There's fewer activities available to them,
[14:35]you know, to do with their children.
[14:36]I think people would say, wait, why aren't you out working?
[14:38]Why would you not do that?
[14:40]And so there, you know, I don't think there's certainly
[14:43]no stigma for working outside the home
[14:45]and people just think that that is what you should be doing
[14:47]and the natural thing to be doing.
[14:49]So for mothers, I would say that that's a big dimension.
[14:52]But I think we still face this idea, you know,
[14:55]of trying to have it all
[14:56]and when the right time is to do things and balancing things.
[14:59]Because you know that the sort of mental load
[15:02]of remembering the kid's birthdays
[15:04]and don't forget your swimming clothes
[15:06]and don't forget this or that,
[15:07]the sort of household CEO work
[15:10]in heterosexual relationships in Iceland
[15:13]that is still disproportionately the woman
[15:15]who takes on those challenges.
[15:17]Even if the household tasks are more evenly divided,
[15:20]it's, you know, it's still the woman
[15:23]who tends to be the one who is remembering to go get,
[15:26]you know, to do their shopping list,
[15:27]even maybe the man buys the shopping.
[15:29]And that's what we need to work on
[15:30]because that we know is a huge amount of unpaid later
[15:35]and a huge amount of work that's going into sort of coordinating
[15:38]all of that in the home.
[15:40]And, you know, there's an excellent quote in the book
[15:42]from a journalist that I interviewed called
[15:43]the author of Arkansas Institute,
[15:44]who actually ran for president in 2012
[15:47]and had a baby, well, had her third child
[15:50]while she was campaigning.
[15:51]And she said, you know, people always said to her,
[15:53]isn't really the right time for you.
[15:55]And she said that women so often we have our lives
[15:57]with people telling us,
[15:59]is it the right time for you now?
[16:00]Don't you want to wait?
[16:01]Are you sure about this?
[16:02]And she said, we spend our lives thinking,
[16:04]okay, I'll wait, I'll wait till I've had my kids
[16:06]and I'll wait till my job is more successful
[16:08]and I'll wait till this and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[16:10]And all of a sudden, you're really old
[16:12]and you've never done anything you wanted to do
[16:13]because someone else told you it wasn't the right time.
[16:16]And I think that's a, you know, great thing
[16:18]to have in mind for us.
[16:20]She's the day.
[16:22]She's the day, exactly, exactly.
[16:24]So interesting.
[16:25]Does all of this apply to people who,
[16:28]like, if you just move into Iceland right now,
[16:30]I mean, I can't really move to Iceland at this moment,
[16:33]but I am tempted to come and visit us.
[16:36]If there are, for women who come into this culture,
[16:40]like you from another country,
[16:42]is everything, are they able to kind of adapt quickly
[16:46]to this new paradigm?
[16:49]Do you know what I mean?
[16:49]Like, does it sink in?
[16:52]Or like, is it, does something external like this
[16:56]really change the fundamentals or mental stuff
[16:59]of the women and moms in the culture?
[17:02]Right, it's an interesting thing.
[17:03]I think women of foreign origin,
[17:05]it's something that I explore a lot in the book as well.
[17:07]I think it's one of the areas where we need
[17:09]to be doing better in Iceland,
[17:10]because we have had a huge influx in immigration recently.
[17:14]And I feel like as a society,
[17:15]we're not maximizing the potential
[17:17]of all of these people who come from abroad.
[17:19]And so we all have different challenges there.
[17:22]Immigrants in all countries generally tend
[17:24]to be better educated than the locally born populations.
[17:27]And where people aren't necessarily getting jobs
[17:30]in relation to their field,
[17:31]I think in Iceland, there's a whole lot of things
[17:33]that tie together, not just the paradigm
[17:35]or the perception of women,
[17:37]not least learning the Icelandic language,
[17:39]which is also important.
[17:41]I think, and again, it's so,
[17:43]you can't paint all immigrants with the same brush.
[17:46]I think one of the issues is being aware
[17:49]of different people's rights
[17:50]and how we get access to information.
[17:52]So, you know, we have very strong labor unions in Iceland.
[17:55]And it's important that people of foreign origin know this.
[17:59]We have strict laws that obviously
[18:00]against domestic violence.
[18:01]It's important that people know this.
[18:03]The women of foreign origin
[18:05]are disproportionately represented at the women's shelter,
[18:08]partially because of awareness of laws and stigma
[18:10]and also partially because they don't have the same
[18:12]social support next, you know,
[18:13]other family that they can go to.
[18:16]So it's a big area that I think that we need to work on,
[18:19]but it's certainly something I think appealing
[18:21]about the country for people who move there.
[18:24]You know, there's opportunities
[18:26]or one hopes is opportunities for people of all genders.
[18:30]So you have three sons in a daughter.
[18:32]What do you think it's like for her?
[18:35]Like, where do you see her future growing up
[18:38]in a society like this that values women?
[18:40]Well, she just told me she wants to move to LA
[18:42]and live on beach and have a small puppy.
[18:44]So I don't know where she looks.
[18:46]Okay, she's never been to LA,
[18:49]but this is, you know, she's seen pictures on it.
[18:51]And here right now, it's really amazing.
[18:53]I have to say she can't hang out with me
[18:55]for the weekend, you know, right?
[18:57]You know, the weather, and I was there last weekend
[19:00]and I'm gonna say that I feel like the weather overall
[19:02]is probably better than it is in Iceland.
[19:04]You know, hopefully she's just growing up as well,
[19:06]like my son's that she can pursue whatever dreams
[19:10]that she wants to pursue and have the opportunity to,
[19:14]you know, to live life the way that she wants to live it
[19:17]regardless of her gender.
[19:19]I mean, obviously, we, you know,
[19:21]we're very privileged where we are as well
[19:24]and not everybody has those opportunities.
[19:26]So I hope as well that we're raising her
[19:28]and just to all of our children to help to, you know,
[19:31]not become complacent to help to elevate people's voices
[19:35]and speak up when they see injustice.
[19:37]And I actually think that that's especially important
[19:40]for my three sons.
[19:41]When we're talking about gender equality,
[19:42]one of the biggest impediments to achieving it
[19:45]is gender-based violence and sexual assault,
[19:48]which occurs obviously in Iceland as well.
[19:50]And the vast majority of the people
[19:52]who are committing those offenses are men.
[19:55]And we need to work a lot
[19:56]so that young men realize that that he hears now.
[20:00]acceptable. And obviously I'm biased, but I'm pretty sure my boy's young men won't be
[20:05]men like that. But I am almost positive that they will encounter the wrong kind of behavior
[20:11]or the wrong kind of dialogue or the so-called locker room chat in whatever circles they're
[20:16]in that I won't be witness to. And what I try to teach them is that they need to have
[20:21]the courage to speak up and say that that is not okay. And that's really hard to do, I think,
[20:25]you're young. It's really hard to be the person who stands up and says, no, rather than
[20:31]just stands aside and says, this isn't my fault, because I'm not doing it, even though you're not
[20:36]actually doing something to combat it. And I work really hard trying to teach them. And I think
[20:41]that that is something important and challenging for all of us, you know, that when we stand by,
[20:47]when we see injustice, you know, that's almost as bad. Wow, I love them. Yeah, that's awesome. I love
[20:55]them. You say in the book that every, that there's an expression in Iceland that everyone has
[21:00]a book in their belly. Did I get that right? Yeah, we all walk with a book in our belly. We all have
[21:05]a story to tell. I love that that is the general belief because, you know, I believe that about
[21:13]everybody too, as many people do, tell me about that and how it's led you to write this book and
[21:19]how this whole book process was like and, and, and, and I'll just go from there. Okay, the book
[21:25]writing process. Yeah, I, because I run the Iceland writer's retreat as well and worked as
[21:29]journalists, people always ask me, what's the book in your belly? Because that's a beautiful phrase
[21:33]to be all of the story. And to be honest, I didn't think I had, well, I, it wasn't something that I
[21:38]was focused on because I had a lot of other things on my plate. And then when the pandemic hit
[21:44]and everything kind of shifted, you know, we had to cancel the writers retreat and there weren't
[21:48]as many first lady activities. And, and all of a sudden you just had time to be imagining things.
[21:53]And the idea for the book occurred to me when our former president, the world's first female
[21:57]president, she turned 90. And it was just occurring to me that everyone in Iceland knows that
[22:01]Iceland is a leader in gender equality. People outside don't know. And I thought I could, you know,
[22:06]paint a portrait of a country. I could kind of write a love story to my adopted homeland using
[22:11]gender equality as a theme and, and using the stories of all kinds of women. And this word
[22:15]sprocket that's in the title means extraordinary women. So I thought it might be an interesting
[22:21]and hopefully hopeful and inspirational and fun read for people who want to learn about a new
[22:27]country and, and read the stories of inspirational women, but also everyday women, you know, not
[22:32]like the first person to do something. It was spokesperson for something else. So I had this idea.
[22:36]I went for lots of long walks to think about it. And I was very fortunate, you know, I think for
[22:43]anybody out there who has this idea for the book. And it's very daunting the process of going from
[22:48]idea to actually publishing a book. And I was, I was fortunate, I guess, to sort of pragmatic
[22:54]things. One was that my younger brother is a writer. And so I called his agent. So I got an agent
[23:03]quick, which, which was helpful because I know that that's a huge hurdle for a lot of times. And
[23:08]because it was a nonfiction book and you can sell nonfiction book proposals without having
[23:12]written the whole book first. It still felt very daunting to have to write sample chapters and
[23:16]full outlines. But then to complete the book, I was contractually obligated. And that was really
[23:21]helpful also to have the motivation to know that it had to go through. But I really enjoyed the
[23:27]whole process of thinking of the idea and who I was going to talk to and speaking with them
[23:31]and writing it and editing it. And now I'm in the States promoting it. It's, it's just been a
[23:36]really, really fun adventure, but also an emotional roller coaster. Wow. And what does your brother
[23:41]think? My brother thinks it's great. He writes, he writes novels more now. So it's completely
[23:47]different, different style. But you know, I think he was happy to share his agent. Nice.
[23:53]I love that. Have you found the reception of this book in the US? Like, has there been
[23:58]something that surprised you about it? Or has it been like, what has it been like?
[24:02]Well, it's just, I just can't express how how excited and grateful I am because I, you know,
[24:09]never thought that I'd be writing a book. And just the fact that I wrote a book seemed to me so
[24:13]much and everything else is just icing on the cake. Or as we would say in Iceland,
[24:17]the reason at the end of the hot dog. I don't know why we say that. And so, you know,
[24:22]I was supposed to go on this book tour in February and then, and then with the pandemic, it went
[24:25]virtual and, and now I've gone here and just, just to meet people who, I mean, I can't believe
[24:31]I read a book, wrote a book. I can definitely believe I read a book. So just to meet people who
[24:36]were inspired by it or enjoyed at it or laughed at loud when they were reading it, I find that,
[24:41]I mean, I'm just so tickled by it all. So the whole thing has been really, really exciting.
[24:48]So does that mean you're going to perhaps write something else? I would love to. I have to have
[24:53]another idea. I hope it doesn't take a pandemic to cause to think of another idea. But it would be
[24:59]great. It's just wonderful. And I think, you know, the one thing I've discovered too is it takes
[25:04]persistence to actually get through it and write the whole book. And I think that, you know,
[25:09]that's actually what stops a lot of people. As you say too, we all have stories in our belly.
[25:13]They're probably all stories that we all want to hear. And a lot of the best stories don't get
[25:18]told not because, you know, they weren't published or people didn't find the right people, which is
[25:22]obviously challenging, but just because they were never written down. Yeah. So I, you know,
[25:27]persistence is key, I think. I also think some people think their stories have to be so dramatic
[25:32]when sometimes the most personal and intimate stories are the ones that end of helping
[25:35]other people the most. You don't have to climb Everest to write a good book about your
[25:41]experience in life. But no, definitely not, you know, getting, you know, little things in life
[25:46]can, anyway, right. The normal is the most relatable, right? Like not very many of us are going to
[25:51]climb Everest. I'm pretty sure I will never climb Everest. And, but there's lots of, there's lots
[25:56]of remarkable in the everyday. Totally agree. Do you have a particular kind of book you like
[26:01]to read or anything you love? I really like nonfiction. I like memoir. I like political stories
[26:07]and political histories. And I'm really especially into audiobooks for those nowadays. And I also
[26:13]love the crime fiction genre. I kind of, it's like my, if I'm sick or something, you know,
[26:19]I get into bed with an eye, I think Kristi and I reread it. But I, you know, there's, I also read,
[26:23]I try to, you know, stay up to date on Icelandic fiction, even though I read it in translations to
[26:27]in English and all kinds of, all kinds of different things. But I'd say those two are my sort of
[26:32]memoir and crime fiction or my two biggest favorites. Amazing. Well, Eliza, thank you. This has been so
[26:38]interesting. I found your book absolutely fascinating and thought provoking. And yeah, you're
[26:44]awesome. I loved it. Thank you, Sippy. It was great. It was so exciting to be on your show,
[26:49]especially after early connections with the ice and registry treat. So yeah, so funny. Oh my gosh,
[26:54]yeah, my list. So thank you so much for having me. Sorry, it took so long. The problem.
[26:58]I will see you in Iceland sometime then. See you in Iceland. Thank you. That'd be great. Thank you, Zippy.
[27:03]Thank you. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[27:09]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[27:15]Also sign up for my newsletter at zippyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[27:20]of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan, in fact,
[27:23]texture sound for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing
[27:28]this fantastic intro and outro music.