Julie Clark, THE LIES I TELL: A Novel
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[0:58]Julie Clark is the author of The Lies I Tell, A Novel.
[1:02]She is also the best-selling author of The Last Flight.
[1:06]The Lies I Tell was named a most anticipated thriller by Buzzfeed Goodreads, Motherly, Pop Sugar, and more,
[1:11]and was selected as a library reason ending next pic.
[1:15]Her debut, The Ones We Choose, was published in 2018 and has been optioned for television by Lionsgate.
[1:21]She lives in Los Angeles with her two sons and a golden doodle with poor impulse control.
[1:25]Welcome, Julie. Thank you so much for coming on Moms. Don't have time to read books,
[1:29]to discuss your latest novel, The Lies I Tell.
[1:33]Thank you. I'm so happy to be here and to talk to you again.
[1:36]Yes, welcome back. Things have changed a lot since the last time we spoke on my gosh,
[1:41]in like lifetime. Not that much.
[1:44]I know, and yet not that much. Very true.
[1:47]This novel scared me to death, because, you know, your con artist with the conscience here
[1:54]has made me realize that I have, like, basically made myself this victim by sharing so much,
[2:00]so openly, so many details on social media. So now I'm like, oh, no.
[2:08]Whoops. Okay, so tell listeners a little bit about what The Lies I Tell is about.
[2:14]So The Lies I Tell is the story of a woman named Meg Williams, and she's a con artist who
[2:21]travels the country under assumed names, creating elaborate backstories to sort of back up the lies
[2:27]that she's telling. She has very specific targets, though. She's not, she's pretty picky about who
[2:33]she cons, and she plays the long game. Like, she's not, she's not a quick in and out. She's very much,
[2:40]she invests the time, she invests in the backstories, she makes sure all of the little details
[2:47]of sort of what she's trying to become match, so that when she finally makes contact with her
[2:56]target, everything is in place to sort of make sense. And so she's been doing this for like 10 years
[3:05]and perfecting her craft, because she has one big con that she's sort of waiting to pull, and it's
[3:11]on the man who she believed destroyed her childhood, destroyed her life, and kind of set her on
[3:16]this path that she didn't really want to be on. And so she returns to Los Angeles to pull off this
[3:22]final con, and take back sort of what was stolen from her. But what she doesn't know is that
[3:28]Kat Roberts, an investigative reporter who's life and career were derailed by Meg 10 years ago,
[3:35]unbeknownst to Meg. She was sort of collateral damage and something that Meg did. She's been waiting,
[3:41]she's been looking for her, and she's been waiting, and Meg returns and Kat's plan is to infiltrate
[3:47]Meg's life, and to be someone that she is not, as a way to sort of expose Meg and kind of take
[3:54]back what was stolen from her. So it's sort of a cat in mouse story where you're not really sure
[3:59]who's the cat and who's the mouse, but it was a lot, it was a lot of fun to write.
[4:04]I bet. Well, you show us almost a dry run with how Meg pursues her old teacher, right? And she's very
[4:12]cunning and that sadly her mother has passed away at a young age, and she is really homeless. She's
[4:19]living in her car and doing her laundry at the Y, and dates are how she eats. She's like,
[4:28]she figures out how to play the system so that she has enough food to get her through the
[4:33]the week. Yeah, I mean, that was sort of how she fell into grifting. She didn't, you know,
[4:38]I mean, I mean, maybe real con artists who I believe could be sociopathic, a grow up in her like,
[4:45]I'm just going to steal from people, but you know, Meg was not one of those people. This was
[4:48]not what she wanted to grow up to become, and she sort of fell into grifting by necessity,
[4:53]you know, like you said, you know, as a way to get a hot meal or a safe place to sleep at night,
[4:58]and then she realizes she's actually quite good at it. It's, you know, and targeting someone who
[5:06]harmed someone that she cared about feels right to her, you know, she has a way of sort of
[5:12]rationalizing the choices that she's making. And so for her, she sort of feels like, you know,
[5:19]place stupid games, win stupid prizes, my friend, and I'm here to award you your prize.
[5:25]So very true. I was particularly interested in her con of the teacher and how you can basically
[5:36]get someone to fall in love with you if you play these apps correctly. I don't know if this is
[5:40]advice I'm giving or I don't know. Yeah, I'm not on them, but I do think that I do think that,
[5:48]you know, without first con, you know, she doesn't set out to con him. She sets out to get a safe
[5:53]place for her to live. And then the more she learns about who he is and kind of what he did and
[5:59]kind of what he still does, she shifts her thinking about him and decides that, you know,
[6:07]she's going to be the one to sort of make him, well, I guess hold him accountable in a way.
[6:13]And so, you know, her, her only goal was to get as much out of him as she could and then,
[6:19]and then move. And she does. And I think that that's one of the things that was really fun to
[6:25]write with Meg was that she, she never steals from people. She doesn't take anything. She is,
[6:32]she has at the end of a con has been willingly given to her. And I did a lot of research into
[6:38]con artists and that's one of the things that people say over and over again is that if a con artist
[6:43]is really, really good, their victims want to participate in whatever it is that they're doing,
[6:48]they just don't realize that they're participating in a crime. You know, and so I wanted to make
[6:54]sure that Meg was, you know, justified in taking what she wanted to take. And I also wanted to make
[7:00]sure that, you know, that legal ramifications would be hard to follow, meaning, you know, she's what
[7:09]what they like to call, you know, quote unquote, hard to prosecute. A lot of her victims aren't going
[7:14]to want to come forward. And even if they did, you know, when the police say like, well, how did
[7:19]how did she end up with this $50,000? Well, I gave it to her. Oh, okay. You know, sorry, that's called
[7:27]steak, not a crime. Yeah. How do you think on the other side of things? We can make sure not to
[7:35]fall victim to some of these cons. I mean, you know, it feels like there are landmines everywhere.
[7:42]I feel like every email I get, I'm like, is this spam? Can I click on this? I now I'm like
[7:47]forwarding even the most mundane emails back to people being like, hi, is this really your birthday
[7:52]party invitation? And they're like, yes, it is. I'm like, well, I just didn't want to click and get
[7:57]trapped. So, you know, I think there's a lot of awareness now around cyber type stuff, right?
[8:03]Especially if you've not anyone who has been a victim, which I have. But in terms of these more
[8:09]elaborate things, how do you, how can you, when someone is so good at, and this is what they do
[8:16]and they're real forte in life? Like, how do you avoid being just a pawn in their process when,
[8:22]especially when they seem to know all about you, which many of these people do?
[8:28]Yeah. I think, you know, those quizzes on Facebook, where, you know, name six cities you've lived in
[8:33]and, you know, what hospital were you born in? And like, those kinds of things are, you know,
[8:38]maybe skip those because they're just right with information that people can use. And, you know,
[8:44]you may think that your friends list is locked down. But, you know, I got on a friend request
[8:49]the other day from somebody who had like 32 mutual acquaintances from people that I went to college
[8:54]with. And I was like, I don't recognize that name, but I'm 52, right? Like, college was
[8:59]three years ago. I don't, I don't remember a lot of things. And so I texted a couple of my friends
[9:06]who were on that person's list and said, like, do you know, do you know this person? Like,
[9:10]and all of them without exception were like, never heard of them. And I'm like,
[9:13]well, your friends with them, you know, and so it's really easy to slip onto somebody's list
[9:19]when there are mutual friends. And, you know, you just have to be careful about what you put
[9:24]on social media and what, you know, what are the things that you want to reveal about yourself? And
[9:29]it's a balance, you know, as an author who, and as you know, you're an author, you're a public figure,
[9:34]like, your brand is out there. You have to do these things. Like, you have to make yourself
[9:41]available to your readers and your clients or whoever it is that your, that your social media
[9:48]is supposed to reach. But at the same time, you have to hold things back because you can't
[9:54]give them full access to everything because you never know what little detail in a photograph
[10:00]video that I might pick up on and then from there, you know, move on. Yeah. Okay. All right.
[10:09]Marie. That's okay. That's okay. You know, I feel like my bias to believe most people are
[10:15]good people and you meet you. That is not necessarily the truth. So I don't know. I think that it is.
[10:22]I mean, I think that I think that 95% of people out there are going to do the right thing and are
[10:29]going to be a good part. You know, maybe not when nobody's watching, but we're talking about like,
[10:33]you know, you find $100 on the grounds and you look around and like, okay, you know, but I think that
[10:40]I think that for the most part, most people want to do the right thing. I do. I do. Okay. All right,
[10:46]then I'll keep my rosy sunglasses on or whatever. A little bit longer. A little bit longer.
[10:51]Well, Julie, tell me about writing this book. I know you said it was fun to write, but like, where did this
[10:57]whole idea even stem from? Like, tell me about the two characters and how you learn more and any
[11:04]research and just give me the backstory. So I was, let's say I'm trying to think where I was with
[11:11]the last flat. I think I had, I think the book had been put into production and I was needing to
[11:16]get started on my next project. And I was sort of writing something else at the time and I had maybe,
[11:23]maybe a solid half written, you know, of this next book that this idea that I had. And we sent it
[11:30]to, we sent it to my editor and she was like, it doesn't really feel like a thriller. And I was like,
[11:36]oh, okay. And I had had this idea. I was, I remember sitting at my son's piano lessons and they
[11:44]were an hour long and I would have to sit in the lobby of his apartment building and just,
[11:48]I don't know, listen to podcasts or, you know, do, and I was listening to a podcast about a
[11:53]con artist in Australia. And it's a podcast called Who the Hell is Hamish. And it's about this guy who
[12:01]gets women to fall in love with him and, you know, then has this like, can't lose investment
[12:06]opportunity and steals money from them. And he's done it multiple times and traveled all over Australia
[12:12]and, you know, fallen in love with women and taking their money. And I just remember thinking like,
[12:16]yeah, you know, I'm a single woman. I'm a single mom. I'm not out in the dating world. But if I were,
[12:23]I would be super suspicious of any guy that comes in and says like, I've got this opportunity
[12:30]for you, right? But I'm a generally suspicious person. I'm like you, I'm forwarding all the
[12:35]emails and saying, you know, is this you? Did you do that? Never click on any links. I don't,
[12:40]you know, even the phone calls. I feel like the spam calls that I answered that. But so I remember
[12:46]thinking like, you know, he's pretty good at this. And I can understand why she might fall in love
[12:50]with him. He's handsome. He's charming. She's lonely. You know, but then I started wondering,
[12:56]I think women could be better at this. Like, I just think a woman could be a better con artist
[13:02]because people are more inclined to believe us, you know, number one, one of my kids were little
[13:09]likes to always tell them, if you're ever lost, go find, go find the mom, go find, you know,
[13:13]the mom with the stroller. That's what you talk about, right? And barring that, you know, go find
[13:18]the grandma. And so, you know, women are inherently, I think, more believable. And secondly,
[13:27]we're often underestimated, especially by powerful men. So that combination I felt like was right
[13:35]to explore. And so, you know, the people that made targets, I really wanted them to be powerful
[13:41]men who just thought she was not that, not that bright, you know, underestimated her. And I just
[13:48]felt like I would like her to take advantage of that bias that we have in society, that a woman is
[13:53]sort of, you know, at one point, she's a life coach, you know, and it's such a blurry
[14:00]occupation that, you know, that could mean anything, you know, and I think that that a man like
[14:07]Philip Montgomery, who's the man that she orbits for that, would be, would be ripe to underestimate
[14:13]her, you know, a powerful businessman who's going through a very bad divorce and wants to
[14:18]milk his, you know, ex-wife for every single penny. So, you know, watch your back, man,
[14:24]cuz we're smarter than we look. Oh, dah, dah, dah. I feel like we need some music, like,
[14:33]another trick that I loved that men pulled was changing the website for the listing price,
[14:39]make end, marking up a house, and then making everybody believe that making her clients believe that
[14:46]she actually got the price down when in fact she paid over-asked, like that is also like a genius move.
[14:52]Every so often, you know, we have a, well, I don't want the case she's listening, I don't
[14:56]want to say anything. Every so often, my husband said, there's somebody who has been like helping us,
[15:00]like, get certain things, like, you know, and he's always like, she always says, oh, I don't know
[15:07]about that, you know, I'm really gonna have to try hard, and then she always gets it, and he's like,
[15:11]maybe she says, maybe she always knows she's gonna get it, but she just wants us to believe that
[15:15]it's hard. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I think that that man does a lot of that sort of
[15:20]of slate of hand stuff, and I wanted, I didn't want to get to, I mean, she definitely uses social
[15:25]media as a way to sort of figure out how she's going to approach people and what kind of entry
[15:31]point she wants to have. It's never the target themselves. It's always somebody in the target circle,
[15:36]because people are suspicious. People are like, you know, why are you approaching me? Who are you?
[15:40]Where did you come from? But if you're so and so friend, then all of a sudden you've got a reference,
[15:45]right? You've got, you know, but I was listening, I'm still listening to a podcast. It's
[15:50]about a con woman, Lizzie Mulder in Orange County, who was an accountant for peak businesses.
[15:57]And the way that she tripped them was by making her own like advice indispensable, you know,
[16:06]and people started relying on her for it to handle these things. The problems that would crop up,
[16:12]you know, payroll wasn't working right, and she would come in every month and handwrite the checks
[16:17]herself. And all the while, the reason why payroll wasn't working well was because she didn't set it
[16:22]up. And so, you know, it's sort of this, it's a slight hand, but it's all man made. And, you know,
[16:31]when you can create a problem for somebody and then swoop in and solve the problem for them,
[16:37]you've built some trust there. And so Meg does a lot of that.
[16:42]Interesting. Before you like it, I'll attempt it to try any of this stuff yourself.
[16:46]Oh my God, no. I'm a good person. I, you know, I'm the one that got caught chewing gum in school
[16:54]the one time I did it. Like, I'm the, I'm, no. No, but it was really fun. I mean, like, that's
[16:59]the fun part about writing fiction is that you get to imagine yourself into these roles that
[17:04]you never ever would do, you know, on your own. I think my parents were a little concerned when
[17:09]they read the book. They were like, you know, this is how your mind works, you know.
[17:18]You know, as an author and an author of thrillers and suspense, you know, we're always thinking about,
[17:24]you know, ways to sort of bend integrity a little bit, you know, you know, I don't know what you
[17:31]think when you're sitting at a red light, but I'm always looking at the person next to me and thinking
[17:35]like, she looks like she's got a body in the trunk, you know, look at her. And I have to say,
[17:41]I have never thought that about the next major red light. Do you think I'm a little weird, you know,
[17:49]sometimes I, well, I do wonder about the people. Like, I'm like, I wonder if, you know, especially
[17:54]when we're in traffic, like, oh my gosh, what is the most horrible thing that somebody is missing
[17:59]right now? Like, maybe they're missing the flight. They would get them to this and there's, you know,
[18:03]maybe they're saying goodbye to someone or maybe they, it's, you know, I don't know, I always
[18:07]go down in the back that's starting to decompose and smell. Yeah, no, yeah, not that. No,
[18:15]well, though. Oh, gosh, great. Yeah, I need more in the anxiety, you know, involving revolving door
[18:21]there. Yeah, whatever. You know, I thought you did a really compelling job or that's not even
[18:29]the right way to say that. I thought it was really compelling. The way you described
[18:33]Meg's financial crisis, right? You said at one point, like, she was one, one UTI away from
[18:41]homelessness or hopelessness or whatever. Like a cavity, a blister, like any of these little things
[18:46]would be just the last like that that couldn't, she couldn't do, she couldn't like handle even
[18:52]one more little thing. And the way even her colleague at the Y in a way that wasn't condescending
[18:58]or whatever, it was able to help out and ask her to house it even though there wasn't really
[19:03]much to do. And sort of this kindness of strangers without making her feel bad because she still
[19:09]has her sense of pride, even though, you know, with everything that's going on, tell me about that.
[19:15]And, you know, obviously you're not in this, I mean, I shouldn't say obviously, well, you seem
[19:20]to have a nice office, but I mean, you got some books. I'm assuming you don't live in your car.
[19:24]How do you get into that mindset? Did you interview people? Did you just imagine what it would be
[19:30]like and how to go through the days or just, just barely getting by? You know, a lot of different
[19:37]places that I sort of mind that, you know, books and podcasts of course, newspaper articles,
[19:44]magazines, things like that. You know, I mean, homelessness in Los Angeles, I live in Los Angeles,
[19:49]it's a big problem here. I mean, you come up already here, you know, when you come, it's a challenge
[19:55]and encampments are everywhere. And not all of them, not all of them.
[20:00]them are, you know, drug addicts or mentally ill.
[20:03]Some of them are people who literally got forced out of their
[20:06]homes and they're living in their cars with their student
[20:08]or their children.
[20:09]And you know, I'm also a teacher and I've worked in a lot
[20:12]of different in a lot of different communities.
[20:14]And I've had kids in my class who are living in their car.
[20:17]I've sat across from parents in a conference and understood
[20:22]exactly why they're not doing their homework because it gets
[20:25]dark at four o'clock and a 4.30 and like they're living in
[20:29]their car. So they can't do their homework, you know?
[20:32]And so I do like draw on that sort of level of desperation of
[20:37]understanding that, you know, one bad accident, one small
[20:44]accident, one thing that you or I wouldn't really think of and
[20:50]move on, oh, I broke that or whatever, you know, could completely
[20:54]derail somebody.
[20:55]There was a great, I don't know if it was, if it's technically
[20:59]middle grade or probably, I guess we could call it middle grade.
[21:02]I'm very blurry on on some of the terminology of the younger
[21:05]kids books, but it's called Shelter by Christy Matheson and it's
[21:08]about a family and they were just okay until the dad got into
[21:12]an accident and then was in the hospital and they lost their
[21:15]house and then they were staying with shelter and she was on a
[21:18]rainy day sort of everything broke down. Right?
[21:21]Just the rain was the last straw for the girl going to school
[21:24]and all of this and you know, I think about that book really
[21:27]because it was from the point of view of the child and not
[21:31]that that was the only one, but the one I read most recently, I
[21:33]guess of just that sort of minute to minute existence and just
[21:38]how tenuous it all can be and how quickly it can all come
[21:42]crumbling down. Yeah, it's scary. It's really scary. And we've
[21:48]a lot of people in our country who are living literally day
[21:52]to day, minute to minute. And you know, it's uncomfortable
[21:55]sometimes to think about it. It's uncomfortable sometimes to
[21:57]talk about it, but the privilege that a lot of people have to
[22:00]say, let's change the subject. Like that's a huge huge
[22:03]privilege. A lot of people have and you can't, you can't do
[22:07]that. You know, you can't turn the conversation away because
[22:10]it's uncomfortable. Like we have an obligation to do something.
[22:14]Yeah. And how how do you aside from writing books like this
[22:19]would of course increase awareness to the whole issue? Like
[22:22]how do you personally try to help, you know, your teacher? And
[22:26]obviously that helps more than anything is like changing the
[22:29]lives of students or maybe a better question is how would you
[22:33]advise the rest of us to help someone listening who's feeling
[22:36]moved or whatever? What should people do? You know, I would
[22:41]it starts with voting to be honest with you. It starts with
[22:45]voting for people who have policies that are compassionate
[22:48]and you know, that makes sense. And you know, unless
[22:53]Angeles, I think the problem really started way back in the
[22:56]80s when we closed a lot of mental hospitals and you know,
[22:59]there there was just no place for these people to go and the
[23:02]problem has gotten progressively worse. So I really think
[23:04]that the most important thing and the thing that I tell my
[23:06]students all the time, I mean, they're only in fifth grade,
[23:09]but you know, we've spent a lot of time talking about, you
[23:13]know, social justice. We've spent a lot of time talking
[23:16]about civics and what it means to be a good citizen. And
[23:19]we talk a lot about what the common good means for
[23:23]us or for other people and how we have to prioritize that. And
[23:28]you know, you want to vote for people who are going to put the
[23:32]needs of people over herself, right? And I think that
[23:37]we are in a crisis right now, you know, in a lot of ways. And I
[23:41]think that the best thing you can do is to vote or
[23:44]find people to contribute if you have money, to pay even
[23:48]if $10 to donate to campaigns to write postcards to make
[23:52]phone calls. There's lots and lots of ways to get
[23:55]involved. And so I just think you need to, you need to wake
[24:00]up and start and and realize that, you know, everybody has a
[24:05]voice and everybody has power. And you know, I, I work really
[24:10]hard to make sure my students leave my class and they
[24:12]understand that like this is their responsibility too,
[24:16]you know. And that just because they're 11 doesn't mean they
[24:20]can't go home and impact the beliefs of, you know, the
[24:23]parents and the older brothers and sisters who are old enough
[24:25]to vote. I also think donating to shelters, local shelters,
[24:30]not not just money, but even supplies, like getting the
[24:34]blankets that they need or finding out what they need in your
[24:37]community or community to care about or, you know, inspiring
[24:40]others to support their local shelters, at least you're
[24:44]know you're helping someone like voting is a one time, it's
[24:48]every couple years, you know, a lot of people want to feel
[24:51]that they're helping and want to make a difference immediately.
[24:53]So anyway, maybe that's one way. So what is coming next?
[24:57]What characters can we expect to see on the scene?
[25:01]I am working on my next book right now. I can't really say a lot
[25:06]about it, but it has to do with a brutal murder in a town
[25:11]in 1975 and sort of the fallout from that. What really happened
[25:18]and who's really responsible for it. So that's been a lot of
[25:23]fun. It's very different. It's a little darker than definitely a
[25:26]lot darker than the lies I tell. And so we'll see. Yeah, I'm just
[25:31]I'm still in early, early days. So there's not much I can
[25:35]tell, but you know, I'll be I'll be out on tour for the lies I
[25:38]tell. Thankfully in person in lots of cities, so you
[25:42]need to check my Instagram for where I'll be, what days, what
[25:45]times, East Coast, West Coast, middle of the country, the
[25:49]South. So yeah. And what is your Instagram for people who are
[25:53]going right there right now? It is Julie Clark offer.
[25:58]Amazing. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors before we go?
[26:02]I would say right every day, you know, something even if you're
[26:05]just journaling out how hard it is and not actually putting
[26:09]fictional words into a page. I think creating every day is
[26:12]something that everybody can do. If you're waiting for the right
[26:16]moment to get started or the right idea to come before you
[26:19]sit down to write, you're just you're always going to be waiting.
[26:22]You know, I work full time. I'm a teacher. I write every morning
[26:29]from 3.45 to 6 am about. And I do that Monday through Friday. I do
[26:34]that on vacations. I do that. It's just what I do. And so,
[26:40]you know, the lies I tell is my third book. And I feel like,
[26:45]you know, you can write an entire book and publish an entire book
[26:49]in two hours a day. You can do that. And I think that, you know,
[26:53]people who think, well, I need to quit my job in order to do this.
[26:55]You don't need to do that. And in fact, I don't recommend you do
[26:58]that. Having a day job really helps take financial pressure off of
[27:01]whatever's going on for me and publishing. I can just enjoy the
[27:05]things that I get. And, you know, kind of oof through the
[27:08]things that I don't. But my livelihood is not tied to
[27:13]how well my books are doing and it helps with the
[27:16]creativity to not need to rely on that. And so, don't don't quit
[27:21]your day job. If you love it, if you hate it, find something else.
[27:24]But I love what I do. I love teaching kids. I love going to
[27:28]school every day and not thinking about publishing for six
[27:33]hours. And you really don't. You don't have time to not to
[27:37]think about it. And it's a nice balance. And so, I would
[27:40]recommend, I would recommend carving out two days, sorry, two
[27:43]hours a day to just write for yourself, whether it's early
[27:47]morning or late at night or lunchtime or even on a walk in
[27:50]your voice recording stuff. I talked to Alex Vinley and he
[27:53]that's what he does. He does a lot of talking into a voice
[27:57]recorder and drafting as he walks, you know. And so, I think
[28:00]a lot of people have different ways of managing the writing
[28:03]with their everyday life. So, teachers don't have time to.
[28:08]Now, we really don't. I think an interesting experiment, if
[28:13]I'm ever like in a creative writing class or I don't know
[28:16]something, I think we should get like, or maybe you could do it
[28:18]with your students, but to get a whole classroom of people
[28:22]and say and like show them the picture of the car next to you
[28:25]and just have them all make up stories. I just did
[28:28]have many. You do do that? Oh, okay. Well, there you go. That's
[28:32]why you're a great teacher. Kids get, they're very creative.
[28:36]They love creative writing. We're doing a fantasy unit right
[28:38]now and you should see they're just so jazzed about it to
[28:41]circle. Yeah. You know, send any good manuscripts my way.
[28:44]I know, right? That's right. Oh my gosh. All right.
[28:49]Well, I have several blooding authors that are led, they're
[28:54]very good. Very good. Yeah. I really do think having a
[28:58]teacher who identifies talent and a writer at a very
[29:01]young age makes all the difference. I feel like there's so
[29:03]many authors who have come on and said, well, you know,
[29:06]I've been writing forever because there's one teacher said
[29:08]something. So, you're that teacher for so many. It's pretty
[29:11]good. I mean, I hope so. I hope so. There's a lot of great
[29:14]stories to tell. And you know, you don't have to have a fresh
[29:17]idea. You just have to have a fresh take on an old idea.
[29:20]You know, love it. Okay. Well, Julie, thanks for coming back
[29:24]on and I'll be following along on your tour.
[29:28]Sounds good. Hopefully I'll see you in New York.
[29:30]Okay. Sounds good. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode
[29:34]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to
[29:37]follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have
[29:40]Time to Read Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at
[29:43]zibiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet
[29:46]lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to
[29:49]Steve and Ryan in fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[29:52]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this
[29:55]fantastic intro and now trim music.