Greer Hendricks and Sarah Pekkanen, THE GOLDEN COUPLE: A Novel
[0:01]Hi, this is Vivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast.
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[0:41]Greer Hendrix and Sarah Peckinin are co-authors of the Golden Couple, a novel.
[0:46]They are the number one New York Times bestselling duo of the wife between us and
[0:51]anonymous girl, and you are not alone.
[0:53]The wife between us has been optioned for film by Amblin Entertainment, with Greer and
[0:58]Sarah Peckinin, hired to write the screenplay.
[1:01]An anonymous girl and you are not alone have been optioned for television with Greer
[1:04]and Sarah tapped to executive produce.
[1:06]Prior to becoming a novelist, Greer served as vice president and senior editor at Simon
[1:10]and Schuster.
[1:11]Sush, I'm Simon, and Schuster, my goodness.
[1:15]Her writing has appeared in The New York Times, Alora, and Publishers Weekly.
[1:18]She lives in Manhattan with her husband and two children.
[1:20]Her co-author, Sarah Peckinin, is the internationally and USA Today best-selling author
[1:25]of eight solo novels, as well as the co-author of The New York Times best-sellers.
[1:30]You are not alone and anonymous girl and the wife between us.
[1:33]A former investigative journalist and award-winning feature writer, she has published work
[1:36]in The Washington Post USA Today and many others.
[1:39]She is the mother of three sons and lives just outside Washington, D.C.
[1:42]All right, welcome Greer Hendrix and Sarah Peckinin back on most of her time to read books.
[1:48]This time to discuss the Golden Couple, a novel.
[1:51]Welcome back!
[1:52]Thanks for having us!
[1:54]I get so excited now when you have new books coming out because we've discussed your
[1:58]process so much that I can now visualize how you two have written the book and, or
[2:03]I assume I know how you have written the book.
[2:06]First, let's start by you explaining a little more what the Golden Couple is about and
[2:12]I want to know if you had a model couple for Marissa and Matthew.
[2:16]If you had pictured in your head, people you actually knew because I feel like I could
[2:20]picture a couple like I didn't know for who they are.
[2:24]I think we all know those bubbles.
[2:26]Yes, so the Golden Couple is a story about a Maverick therapist.
[2:32]In fact, she's such a Maverick that she's no longer a licensed therapist.
[2:37]She has created a method that's all her own.
[2:41]It is a 10-step method and basically what she tells clients when they walk through the door.
[2:47]Whatever they bring, whatever problem they're grappling with from childhood from work
[2:51]from today, she will assess them and if she knows she can fix them in 10 sessions,
[2:58]she will take them on as clients.
[3:01]But here's a catch.
[3:03]They have to do whatever she says during those 10 sessions.
[3:07]So in we have a, it's a, the story is told in dual perspectives.
[3:11]We have Avery, the therapist, and then Marissa, so I'm not giving anything away when
[3:16]I say that Marissa kind of convinces her husband to go meet with Avery.
[3:22]And he thinks they're walking in to talk about their eight-year-old son Bennett who's been
[3:25]bullied in the past and kind of comes in reluctantly and then literally on like page three,
[3:32]Marissa's like, actually we're here to talk about something else.
[3:36]I cheated on you and it's like a bomb has gone off in the office because Matthew is completely
[3:44]blindsided.
[3:46]But Avery has this great way about her and he agrees to this therapy to try to repair
[3:53]their marriage, which is important to, to Marissa.
[3:56]And so then, and it goes, and it goes from there.
[3:59]And I should say, so the first person talking with Sarah, Sarah just say, hi, or something
[4:03]again.
[4:04]So they can hear you boys.
[4:05]Yes.
[4:06]Hi, Sarah.
[4:07]Okay, good.
[4:08]And then the second woman was Greer.
[4:10]Just so people can follow who's saying what.
[4:14]I feel like I will never look at a crushed cup again at the same way without thinking
[4:18]about Matthew and his rage and finding out about what happened with his marriage plus.
[4:25]So these non-traditional methods of Avery, the idea of having the person who has just
[4:32]been cheated on suddenly have to recount like an amazing sexual experience they had with
[4:37]somebody other than their spouse.
[4:38]I was like, okay, where is this going?
[4:41]He was not your ordinary therapist for sure.
[4:44]So how did you to conceptualize this, this 10-step plan?
[4:50]And by the way, when the book starts out and you say that, you know, Avery is a non-licensed
[4:55]therapist now, you just assume it was something so horrible.
[4:58]But I actually see the value in what she did because she was trying to help someone.
[5:02]I don't want to give it away if you feel like that is giving things away.
[5:05]But I feel like it was all in service of her clients greater good essentially.
[5:12]And I know it's not totally kosher, but I thought it was pretty creative when she did.
[5:19]Well, what's funny is that when Sarah and I have been talking and promoting this book,
[5:24]we've been asking, you know, anyone we talk to, would you see a therapist like Avery?
[5:30]Who could, you know, kind of solve your, whatever problem you bring to them in 10 sessions?
[5:35]And with like almost unanimously, people have said, yes, within the capable hands of someone
[5:40]like Avery, yeah, it's not going to be easy.
[5:43]But boom, like 10 sessions, like people spend 10 years in therapy.
[5:48]So yeah.
[5:49]So I'm glad that you connected with her and sort of understood why she does believe
[5:55]she's doing things for the greater good.
[5:58]I said, I don't think I would sign up with Avery.
[6:00]Oh, no.
[6:02]You're one of the few zippy.
[6:04]Really?
[6:05]Oh, man.
[6:05]I don't know.
[6:06]I don't really like surprises.
[6:08]I don't like like you do anything I say for even one hour.
[6:12]I don't like that.
[6:15]Well, given the kind of characters and storylines we write and what happens to a lot of
[6:19]characters in our book, you're probably wise to step back.
[6:22]Yeah, seriously.
[6:23]You know, the difference is in traditional therapy, it's kind of client driven.
[6:28]And they can only go into areas that they want to explore in Avery's method.
[6:33]It is like bootcamp on steroids.
[6:35]You're going to do what I say.
[6:36]I'm going to fix you.
[6:37]It may not be what you want, but this is going to be the right thing.
[6:40]And as you put it for the greater good.
[6:42]Yeah.
[6:43]It might not be what you want, but it's what Avery thinks you need.
[6:46]No, I'm sure it would be good for me.
[6:49]I'm just not sure.
[6:50]I'm not ready.
[6:51]I don't know.
[6:52]She would probably have a field day analyzing why you're not comfortable with the see
[6:56]how right.
[6:57]Yes, perhaps I've revealed too much about myself in that admission.
[7:01]That's a great question.
[7:04]I'd love to get back to when you talked about the golden couple.
[7:07]And you know, that actually the book began with our title, our brilliant editor, Jennifer
[7:14]Andrew, and at St. Martin's press called us one day and said, I have this great title.
[7:20]I can't believe nobody's used it.
[7:22]And you're Jen, her enthusiasm is so infectious and like, what is it?
[7:25]What is it?
[7:26]She said, the golden couple, I think you guys can write a book around that and we were
[7:30]like, all right, did not let's go time to, you know, time to figure it out.
[7:34]The idea, you know, that title gripped us and that led into who is the golden couple.
[7:41]And just as you mentioned in the beginning, we have all seen that couple.
[7:45]They are the perfect couple that goes to all the right openings and their kids are perfect
[7:50]and they don't have dog hair on their clothes like I do right now.
[7:54]And every Instagram post is a celebration and, you know, they're very enviable.
[8:00]But that doesn't make for an interesting book.
[8:03]So what we wanted to do is really dig into what would it be like to read that couple's
[8:08]diaries to over hear their conversation, you know, their pillow talk at night.
[8:13]How could we really find the term and we thought, well, you know, if they were being,
[8:19]you know, maybe investigated by the police or could be a detective who digs into them,
[8:23]yeah, could be a neighbor, could be another family member, could be a therapist.
[8:29]And as soon as we said that we're like, okay, we're often running.
[8:31]We love writing about therapists.
[8:33]We love digging into complicated relationships.
[8:37]This is that intersection and that's our sweet spot.
[8:41]Yeah, we felt like like we loved doing complicated, you know, relationships in general,
[8:45]but especially marriages like with the wife between us.
[8:48]And then of course anonymous girl also had a very untraditional therapist.
[8:52]And so Sarah and I both studied psychology and journalism, but we're both really interested
[8:58]in therapy.
[8:59]I mean, of course, someone asked if we had done research.
[9:03]And I said, well, the great thing with Avery is that she's not a traditional therapist.
[9:06]So yes, we did reach out to several therapists that we both know my mom and Sarah's sister
[9:11]and a lot.
[9:12]I have them read the book, but we can kind of, you know, do our own thing because she has,
[9:16]you know, lost her license.
[9:17]So I feel like if the two of you had therapists, which she don't have to admit,
[9:22]they might be like, I don't know what's going on here.
[9:25]Like every book is like about these relationships.
[9:27]Like what's gone on in your own therapy sessions that like your whole career now is about like
[9:33]these non-traditional therapists, sometimes who completely, you know, go in a different direction
[9:39]than you expect.
[9:40]So I don't know.
[9:41]I think college start there or might not hours.
[9:44]We don't have a twin therapist.
[9:46]I've got my therapist in our books and I've been like, you know, but there's nothing like,
[9:50]you know, I've sent them to people who, you know, I've worked with them right
[9:55]in whatever over the years.
[9:56]It's like not based on you, not based on you.
[9:59]Yeah.
[10:00]I mean, I'm a huge fan of therapy.
[10:02]I can see it's great to get a second opinion on your life.
[10:04]I think that's how Lori Gottlieb puts it.
[10:06]And I've been at various times in my life
[10:09]for various situations.
[10:11]And sometimes just to the best times
[10:13]are when you don't have anything urgent
[10:14]either kind of doing a little housekeeping.
[10:17]So my therapist has read most of my books.
[10:20]And she gets it like this is not this is fiction.
[10:24]This is not based on anybody in your life.
[10:27]I think it would be a fun panel
[10:29]to have the two of you and your therapists.
[10:31]I would like to interview the four of you together.
[10:34]That would be all of you.
[10:36]One of our, I mean, and one of the blurbs,
[10:37]we got so many incredible blurbs and reviews for this book.
[10:40]But I think one of the blurbs that really
[10:42]excite us the most was that Lori Gottlieb did blur
[10:45]but because Sarah and I both, you know,
[10:47]we just think the world of her.
[10:49]She's so smart.
[10:50]And we've both, you know, our copies of,
[10:53]maybe she talked to someone like Doggerton highlighted.
[10:55]And so the fact that she, the book,
[10:57]resonated with her was like, yay, that's awesome.
[11:01]I love that, I really love that.
[11:02]And I also adore her.
[11:05]I also really like all the backstories of the characters.
[11:08]Like I've always had this dream to have,
[11:10]like it's like amazing gift, little store
[11:12]that I could walk into.
[11:14]And what would that be like to just surround myself
[11:16]with all of my favorite objects?
[11:18]And so Coco Marissa's store is like a destination
[11:22]I would totally want to go to.
[11:24]And I also like how you always have this sort of haze
[11:27]of suspicion against any character that comes in.
[11:30]Like this poor girl, Polly, it's like from the second,
[11:33]she like walks on this stage.
[11:34]I'm like, what's her deal?
[11:36]What's gonna happen here, you know,
[11:37]everything in your books is like a question mark.
[11:41]And that's very intentional.
[11:42]Yeah, you know, you can't know who the bad guy
[11:46]or good, you know, bad girl or whoever it is early on.
[11:50]And yeah, I mean, for the store,
[11:53]I have, there is a store called Core 72
[11:56]and the exact spot Coco is and everything in it is cultivated.
[12:00]It's not quite as, you know, high-end as Coco,
[12:03]but it's definitely luxurious.
[12:05]And so the owner of it, I talked to her a little bit
[12:08]about it and gave her a copy of the Golden Couple
[12:11]and, you know, she's great, she loved it.
[12:13]But that, that in Greer has a store in New York
[12:16]where she's like, okay, this is what I'm visualizing.
[12:18]You know, so that is kind of one of the best things
[12:22]about being a novelist, which you just figure
[12:25]finger on Zippy is you get to explore other lives
[12:29]without the consequences of actually stepping into those lives
[12:33]and making those mistakes and figuring it out.
[12:35]You get to dip in and out and play it having a little store
[12:38]and, you know, play it going to, you know,
[12:40]whatever it is, some event,
[12:42]but you're sitting at home in sweats,
[12:44]like typing away and it's just living in your mind.
[12:46]Yeah, and Zippy, if you wanna know the inspiration
[12:48]in my mind for Coco was blueberry.
[12:51]Okay, I think about how well curated
[12:53]and how you can find just like the perfect gift
[12:56]for anyone in your life and it's both high-end
[12:58]and, you know, there's some, you know,
[13:00]some more affordable products.
[13:02]And I love the women who work there.
[13:04]So if anyone's listening in there in New York,
[13:06]check out Bluetree and if you're in DC,
[13:08]check out what was the name of the store.
[13:09]Core, second D2.
[13:11]There was a store for a short period of time
[13:13]and they had all this personalized stationery
[13:16]and great gifts and I would always go in there for my,
[13:20]and the owner was my age and this is like,
[13:21]I feel like 10 years ago or maybe even more,
[13:24]maybe she was a little younger.
[13:24]Anyway, I was kind of obsessed with the store
[13:26]and I still to this day when I need a gift,
[13:29]I'm like, and so sad that that store is gone
[13:31]and I wonder what happened to that store owner?
[13:33]Like, that's the other thing.
[13:33]The relationships you can make with, you know,
[13:36]it's so old fashioned, right?
[13:37]The people in your community, like Mr. Rogers, right?
[13:39]But there is something special to those relationships.
[13:42]Likewise with the gym and I know you have Avery,
[13:44]you know, checking out and stalking people at various
[13:48]workout facilities, tell me about that
[13:51]and the fun and writing that part.
[13:53]I mean, we just love to having her.
[13:55]You know, we always imagine our characters like,
[13:59]how can we get them sneaking in places?
[14:01]Like we love to write them whether it's like, you know,
[14:03]putting on a disguise and going into, you know, a bar
[14:06]to check something out or, you know,
[14:08]going into a gym to, you know,
[14:10]with kind of a temporary membership.
[14:12]Like it's just, I guess it is fun
[14:14]and we get to put on our like smooth hats
[14:17]and see like how would you go about doing that?
[14:20]And what would you say?
[14:22]And how could you make this somewhat believable?
[14:25]So again, just another one of the really, you know,
[14:28]really fun parts of our job is doing kind of doing things
[14:31]that you might ordinarily or I definitely would not do.
[14:34]You're a little more intrepid with this stuff, Sarah.
[14:37]Like you've had more adventures doing this.
[14:41]Well, and I think too, you know,
[14:42]it's one of the big things we do when we write, you know,
[14:46]we plot out books is we say,
[14:48]what is the next most interesting thing that could happen?
[14:54]And that's a question that constantly comes up.
[14:57]And, you know, Ziviana for you too.
[14:58]Like it's this, you know, what you're doing
[15:00]in all your different businesses.
[15:02]Like what is the next thing that would make this fun,
[15:05]twisty, unexpected.
[15:07]And that's when we're, you know, sending people
[15:10]into a gym like with a story or whatever it is we're doing.
[15:14]That's just grips off to something exciting and fun.
[15:17]I love that.
[15:18]That's so great.
[15:19]So the other, the other books when you've discussed them,
[15:22]you've said you have this open Google Doc
[15:24]and you both like literally are on the phone
[15:26]with each other for six hours a day.
[15:27]I mean, I think this is right.
[15:28]Maybe I can get slightly wrong.
[15:29]Some shared document and for six hours a day,
[15:32]you know, you have to tell each other
[15:33]if you're going to basically cheat on each other
[15:36]by like going to a lunch or you know,
[15:37]you're not allowed to do that.
[15:38]Like this is the schedule and you hold fast to it.
[15:42]And how did this book come about?
[15:43]Like did the pandemic change things for you?
[15:47]Yeah, so we were on tour for our third book.
[15:50]You are not alone when COVID hit.
[15:51]And every day we're like, should we be on the road?
[15:54]Should we not be on the road?
[15:55]We were calling our doctors.
[15:56]And finally halfway through, we're like this,
[15:59]it's not safe for us.
[16:00]And it's not safe for, you know, our audiences
[16:02]to be coming out.
[16:03]So we left and I retreated to Nantucket
[16:08]and Sarah was in D.C.
[16:10]And our houses got a lot more crowded.
[16:13]Suddenly, you know, we used to be alone.
[16:15]And now I not only have my two noisy dogs
[16:17]but I had two kids and my husband
[16:19]and Sarah had a bunch of kids and her boyfriend.
[16:22]And so we are, we had started the golden couple
[16:25]but our process changed a little bit
[16:27]because we still did like we have these like walk-and-talks
[16:31]and we had still talk endlessly the what-if what-if
[16:33]and we had plot together.
[16:35]But we had to do more individual writing
[16:38]because Sarah's not stopping construction.
[16:40]Like the houses were noisy
[16:42]and we just couldn't be on the phone together
[16:45]because it was very, it was incredibly disruptive.
[16:47]My husband was making these smoothies every day
[16:49]like right outside my little office.
[16:51]Like it was just, so it did change and still worked.
[16:57]I think we think it would still work.
[16:59]Yeah, you tell us that you didn't work.
[17:01]Did you divide the character?
[17:02]Like did each of you write one of them?
[17:04]No, we know we sort of plotted everything
[17:07]but there was no division in terms of writing
[17:09]the character.
[17:10]So I know a lot of authors do it that way.
[17:13]But yeah, that wasn't.
[17:15]So I'm curious also on the book side.
[17:18]So Greer used to be an editor
[17:20]and Sarah, you've been doing this for a while.
[17:22]Now the two of you have become this very successful duo.
[17:25]There are so many authors who have been unable
[17:28]to kind of break out in the same way
[17:30]regardless, even if they might have an equally good book
[17:33]or the space is crowded or like what do you think it takes
[17:36]to get a book to really break out?
[17:39]What do you have to do if you're not already
[17:41]a known entity?
[17:42]Like, is it possible anymore or not?
[17:45]You know, that's tough.
[17:47]I have to say I'm on Instagram when you're scrolling
[17:50]and of course, most of the people I follow
[17:52]are a lot of them are book bloggers and book authors.
[17:55]And you look and you just see how many books are published
[17:59]every day.
[17:59]And so many of them are probably really, they're terrific.
[18:03]And I just, I do think it's really, it is really tricky.
[18:07]I mean, with us for our first book,
[18:08]there was a lot of excitement behind it.
[18:11]I think our story like an eight author, editor, team,
[18:15]the our relationship was novel.
[18:18]I think the book itself, you know, there was a really big
[18:22]unique twist to it.
[18:24]Our publisher, the jacket was perfect.
[18:28]They put a lot of energy behind launching it.
[18:32]So I feel like for that book,
[18:33]it was really the perfect storm of like every ingredient
[18:38]you could have to make that book a success.
[18:41]Truly, we had, you know, some, you know,
[18:46]scale writing a great book, some little bit of luck,
[18:49]some, you know, just the real power and energy
[18:52]of our publisher.
[18:54]But we didn't take anything for granted.
[18:56]And we expressed, there was so much gratitude, you know,
[18:59]every day for the success that that book became.
[19:03]And then, you know, launched this, you know,
[19:06]these, these other next, the next three books.
[19:09]I don't necessarily, what do you think?
[19:10]Anything else?
[19:11]Yeah, I mean, to be, I totally hear what you're asking.
[19:14]And if there was some magic, I don't love for breaking out,
[19:18]like we would all be like desperately trying to figure out
[19:22]what it is.
[19:22]And I know so many authors who have written
[19:25]the most beautiful books.
[19:26]As you've said, books that are ever did equally as good
[19:30]as, you know, books that are dominating on the list.
[19:33]And, and I don't know.
[19:35]I don't know what the answer is.
[19:36]Like, you know, it just, people say it's word of mouth.
[19:41]It's, you know, I talk campaign, it's this or it's that.
[19:43]But I don't know where the light meaning the bottle is.
[19:46]I do know, as Greer said, our incredible support
[19:50]from our publisher.
[19:51]We had this amazing team of, you know, everybody
[19:55]from marketing to, you know, the publicity
[19:57]to our brilliant editor.
[19:59]And...
[20:00]They put a lot of muscle and a lot of hope and a lot of work between our books, but other books get that too and, you know, don't
[20:08]Launches as well as everybody might hope
[20:11]So I wish I could figure it out. I know we're all trying to figure it out. So we'll lose it
[20:15]Yeah, I just add to that, you know when I put if I put my editor hat back on to
[20:21]You know, I even as an editor there were books that I was convinced we're going to be the next greatest thing they will end and
[20:28]You know, and as a editor in a publisher we would put all the synergy behind it and just it just it is
[20:34]It's just like some of it. It's just not logical. It's not a science
[20:39]Hmm
[20:40]And yeah, there's no nothing deters want to be writers. Do you know me? There's like this like instinctive human need to
[20:48]Have your story and get it out on paper whether it's a creative fictitious version of life or your own story
[20:55]There seems to be just this like pull and it doesn't it almost doesn't matter
[21:00]What happens, but then of course once you get in the system it matters
[21:05]But I don't know I've been like sorry
[21:06]I'm like so
[21:08]consumed by this sort of oversupply
[21:10]relative to the demand in this industry and yet there's no
[21:14]Lack of production right if it was another industry they would like tamp down the production of it or something
[21:21]Right to make it more equitable, but there's just too much supply
[21:24]But you're right. I mean there is this need and it doesn't matter how hard it is
[21:30]It doesn't matter if you know the odds it it doesn't matter if you have, you know a tiny contractor
[21:35]No contract at all like if you're a writer you have to write it. It is like it's not you know a possibility
[21:42]It's a must and yep, and yeah, you're right
[21:45]There are so many books published so many of them, you know just heartbreakingly are quiet
[21:50]But yet the writers keep writing
[21:52]You know, I got an email from a friend today who's like, you know after three rejected manuscripts and several hundred
[21:59]Rejections from agents and publishers. I'm having my second book out
[22:03]Her first to come out prior to all of this and I'm like she's got a right like she will never stop and good for her
[22:11]Maybe we should take that to the therapist. I don't know
[22:14]What advice would you have for aspiring authors? Those people out there who just it doesn't matter
[22:22]What's gonna come next? They're gonna keep doing it and doing it and doing it? Is there is it important to spend more time on?
[22:29]Craft is it important to find a partnership? I mean you're you two have found this perfect
[22:34]Well, I shouldn't say perfect because you know it's what goes on
[22:36]But really great and effective partnership where you seem to really you get along great and also
[22:41]Work really well together or maybe you could just even talk about that. How do you find a perfect writing team?
[22:46]And how do you know if you're even the right type of person who wants to be in a
[22:50]Writing team and does that increase your odds or make it harder or I don't know what what what's your takeaway from this whole experience?
[22:57]Well, let me take the first part of your question like any advice to writers like you could tell them
[23:02]Okay, well, don't write yeah, you're gonna you know spend two three years writing this book
[23:07]And if it gets published you're gonna make approximately five cents an hour for every you know
[23:12]But it's not gonna stop them and nor should it right?
[23:15]It's like you're not just writing for that golden
[23:18]You know ring that you're gonna grab on the merit around you're writing for what you learn about yourself
[23:23]for what you're figuring out what you're figuring out about the world you're writing for that daily struggle of
[23:30]God I gotta get this seen down. It's not working
[23:33]But if I do this and then you wake up in the middle of the night and you're like, oh, I've got it
[23:37]the ride of writing is
[23:40]One of the most complicated and emotion on every you know end of the spectrum filled
[23:47]Experiences we have and it in itself is such a gift and yeah, that's what I would say is just try to
[23:55]Enjoy the ride even as you're hating it and even as you're despairing because it is making you feel fully alive like you're doing
[24:01]Yeah, I would echo what Sarah says. I think if you want to write then you then you write but you can't you really can't go into it
[24:09]With the expectation that you're going to get an agent or get published your books gonna be on the bestseller list
[24:15]I mean you can hope that and you can you know strive for that, but that can't be
[24:21]You have to enjoy the journey. Otherwise. It is just not it is just not worth it
[24:25]I can't well
[24:26]I can't imagine that it would be worth it and then in terms of like you know
[24:31]logistics
[24:32]You just you have to just sit down and do it, you know
[24:35]I like you can't edit a blank screen
[24:37]You can't you have to just get your butt in the chair. The words don't come out unless you're actually physically there in some days
[24:44]it's like you're just sitting in front of the computer and
[24:48]You know it feels like torture and other days you look up and you like three hours have gone by and
[24:54]You know this zibby, right? So it
[24:58]Not every every you know every day is different, but if you're not present to do it
[25:02]Then you can't it just can't happen
[25:05]And I think like for me because I had never written by myself
[25:08]One of the greatest you know there were so many many great things about having a partner
[25:12]but the accountability because
[25:15]Your you know my butt was in the chair
[25:17]You know we would do our walk-in talks and then
[25:20]Start writing and so that time was completely blocked out and I think for people who are doing it individually
[25:26]They have to treat it that same way. I would say in terms of a partnership
[25:30]You people should I wouldn't enter into a partnership thinking it's going to make your book better or work
[25:35]I think you either you either have to want to work with somebody or not some people are collaborators
[25:40]You know, I was a very collaborative editor Sarah even before a part that had collaborated on new stories
[25:46]So I think that was in our in our nature to want to do that
[25:50]But that's not that's not right, you know for
[25:52]For many many many writers say to us how in the world do you do that together?
[25:56]So then you kind of know that or you don't
[25:58]That's good advice. I like it
[26:00]Well, thank you for coming back on to discuss the golden couple
[26:04]Congratulations on all of its success
[26:06]Oh, I should ask is this going to be a movie somebody just interviewed me actually and they were like what book
[26:10]Would you most like to see a movie and I was like well, I'll tell you I've got this book right here
[26:16]Thank you, thanks. I don't think we can announce anything yet
[26:20]But fingers crossed and we'll see our characters on the screen someday
[26:27]It's about a trip you can submit again, okay, there we go
[26:32]Well again, congratulations and yet another really entertaining amusing page flipping
[26:40]Escapist and helpful book, so
[26:43]Thank you very well done
[26:45]Thanks for being such a supporter
[26:49]Princess charming. Yes, Princess charming. Thanks
[26:56]Hi, I'm city Owens and you're listening to the award-winning podcast moms don't have time to read books
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