Jodi Picoult, CHOICE
[0:01]Hi, this is Vivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast.
[0:05]Moms don't have time to read books, and speaking of books, I have two of my own books
[0:10]coming out this spring and summer.
[0:12]Princess Charming is a picture book, which debuts on April 19th, and bookends.
[0:17]A memoir of love, loss, and literature comes out on July 1st, and it is truly a labor of love.
[0:24]I hope you'll pre-order, order, and join me on tour as I go across the country.
[0:28]You can find out more at ziviowens.com, or bookendsmemoir.com, and you can follow me
[0:35]on Instagram at ziviowens, because I always post about everything.
[0:38]Enjoy the show!
[0:41]Jodie Pico is the author of Choice, which is an Audible Original.
[0:46]Jodie is also the author of 27 novels, with 40 million copies sold worldwide.
[0:51]Her last 13 books have debuted at number one on the New York Times' Bestseller list.
[0:56]Five novels have been made into movies, and four more, a spark of light, the book of two
[1:00]ways, small great things, and wish you were here, are currently in development.
[1:04]Between the lines, co-written, the places of play, between the lines co-written with
[1:08]daughter Samantha Van Leer, has been adapted as an off-Broadway musical, debuting this
[1:13]June.
[1:14]And by the way, I am taking 60 women to cocktails and drinks with Jodie and her daughter
[1:20]and the two composers of the show, as part of my mom's and have time to events.
[1:25]And then we are all walking across the street and seeing the play at 8 p.m. on June 16th.
[1:31]There are a few tickets left that you have to buy the tickets, which are $55 each.
[1:38]We got a great group rate, and they're almost all gone.
[1:42]But if you email info at ziviowens.com, especially after listening to this episode, you
[1:48]can potentially get one of the remaining tickets and come to my party and then the show
[1:54]with all of us.
[1:55]This is just the first, well, it's really the second after Candice Bushnell's event
[1:59]at the Carlyle of many events that I hope to do with our amazing mom.
[2:04]So I don't have time to community and to stay up-to-date on all of this and get first
[2:08]dibs on special events you should subscribe to my newsletter, which you can find on ziviowens.com.
[2:15]Back to the bio, by the way.
[2:16]Jodie is the recipient of multiple awards, including the New England Best Bookseller Award
[2:20]for Fiction, the Alex Award from the Y Library Services Association, and the New Hampshire
[2:25]Literary Award for Outstanding Literary Merit.
[2:27]She is also the co-lebratist for the musical Breathe, which premiered in 2021, and of the
[2:32]musical adaptation of the Book Thief, which will premiere in the UK in 2022.
[2:37]Oh my gosh, I loved the Book Thief.
[2:39]Her next novel, Mad Honey, written with Jennifer Finney Boylin, who, by the way, I just
[2:44]speak at the Penn Gala, sorry, this bio is all over the place, will be published on October
[2:49]4th, 2022.
[2:51]She lives in New Hampshire with her husband.
[2:53]Welcome, Jodie.
[2:54]Thank you so much for coming back on Momstone, have time to read books, to discuss some
[2:57]very exciting new work of yours.
[3:00]I can't wait to talk about all of them.
[3:02]Zodie, it is an honor to be back here.
[3:04]Thanks for having me.
[3:05]Of course.
[3:06]Okay, first things first.
[3:08]You wrote as you, and in the introduction to this piece, you explain that you've been coping
[3:14]with everything in your life through writing, which I completely relate to, by the way.
[3:17]I can't do short stories like this, just whipping them out in this magic, like you did,
[3:22]you wrote this short story called Choice, in response to the Roe v Wade news of late,
[3:29]and it is now out as an audible original.
[3:32]Tell listeners what your piece is about and about and how you structured it, how you just
[3:38]sure got it done.
[3:40]So choice is a short, it's 38 minutes, and it's a short story, basically, that's set in
[3:46]in a world where cisgender men and boys suddenly and inexplicably begin waking up pregnant.
[3:53]And it's kind of told through the lens of an ex couple that experiences an unwanted pregnancy
[3:59]in a post-row America where it's the guys who were getting pregnant.
[4:05]And the idea for this, I wouldn't say it was an idea that really came to me.
[4:08]I was burning with fury when I heard about the leak and the case about the doves case.
[4:16]And honestly, I think a lot of women really have been.
[4:20]And we've been shouting into the void, and it just feels like, what can you do?
[4:24]What can you do to move a needle to make a difference when this looks like a done deal
[4:29]with that accompli?
[4:30]It's something that I warned was going to happen way back in 2018 when I wrote the spark
[4:34]of light.
[4:35]And everyone said, oh, you're overreacting.
[4:37]Well, I'm not overreacting, you know, but I wanted to really do something.
[4:42]And then I happened to listen in to some weird news clip about two male congressmen trying
[4:48]to discuss what an IUD was and how it worked.
[4:51]And I realized these guys have absolutely no clue about a female body, about what it means
[4:58]to move through the world as a woman.
[5:02]And that's what kind of got me thinking about writing this piece.
[5:06]And literally, I went up to my husband, I said, I have to go upstairs now and do some
[5:10]rage writing.
[5:11]And that's what I did, I sat down and I just blew this piece out like in one single night.
[5:16]You know, for me, I really wanted to channel my stress and my anger and my frustration.
[5:23]And that's what writing did for me.
[5:25]But I also just really needed to, I needed to create something that would let other people
[5:32]feeling the same way I did feel that they were seen because right now we're being erased.
[5:38]And I wanted, I wanted something that got out to a lot of people widespread.
[5:42]I was very, very fortunate because audible read a text version of the story and immediately
[5:50]they were all over it.
[5:51]They wanted to do this.
[5:52]They wanted to get it out.
[5:53]They were willing to release it as an audible original for free.
[5:58]And they knew that I was planning to donate every, every cent I got paid to the national
[6:05]network of abortion funds, which creates opportunities for termination, particularly for
[6:11]people in states where it's highly restricted or banned.
[6:15]And they, I'd like to think that they paid me a lot because of that, you know, I think
[6:20]they kind of did.
[6:21]I think they were like, okay, she's, she's given something with a lot of zeros away here.
[6:25]And you know, that made me feel great because I was, I was helping frustrated women
[6:30]to be seen.
[6:31]I was hopefully taking payment that I was given and making a huge donation to an organization
[6:37]that's doing the work on the ground, boots on the ground.
[6:40]And I hope also convincing people who listen to this story that they should do the same
[6:46]in their small corner of the world or if they live in a place where abortion access isn't
[6:49]going to be restricted, find a place where it is.
[6:52]And you know, really put your money where your mouth is.
[6:54]It's really unthinkable that this is happening.
[6:57]I like, I cannot wrap my mind around this.
[7:00]Like, you know, it, yeah, it's, well, it's unthinkable and it's insidious and it's dishonest
[7:08]and disingenuous, you know, to be told over and over well, you know, we're just speaking
[7:14]for those who can't speak and, you know, this is, this is about being pro life.
[7:19]Well, you know, it's not pro life.
[7:21]If it was about being pro life, then the people who are against abortion would be for
[7:25]contraception and against gun control and against the death penalty.
[7:31]And we all know that's rarely the case.
[7:33]It's not really about being pro life.
[7:35]It's about, it's about rendering women to be powerless.
[7:39]And part of, of writing this piece was to remind us, well, we're not powerless yet.
[7:44]We've got a pretty, pretty mighty weapon and that's a pen, you know, among other things.
[7:48]I just think, I remember going back to this when I was writing a spark of light and saying,
[7:55]the question should never be, at what point does a fetus become a person?
[8:00]The question should be, at what point does the woman stop being one?
[8:05]Mm.
[8:06]Right?
[8:07]And, you know, if you want to give bodily autonomy to an embryo, to a fetus, great, I am
[8:14]absolutely willing to hear you out.
[8:16]Do it without taking bodily autonomy away from, from the carrier, from the person who's
[8:21]pregnant and, and then let's talk.
[8:24]I mean, it was so interesting the way you wrote it in the story, like men feeling like
[8:28]they just have a tumor or something like that and how, and how the news anchor, like
[8:32]could not even say it.
[8:34]And you did it in a way where, and you did such a good job of this in your last book
[8:38]too, which focused on the pandemic, right?
[8:41]This is the same, that you referenced the pandemic right away.
[8:44]So already we're like rooted in time, like here we are.
[8:46]It's actually right now.
[8:47]Right.
[8:48]And, right.
[8:49]And their newscasters are like, you know, it looks like suddenly met her waking up and
[8:54]I can't even say anything.
[8:55]I was like, pregnant.
[8:56]It's not a swear word.
[8:58]Right.
[8:59]Right.
[9:00]Well, and, and it was really fun to sit down.
[9:01]I made a list actually when I was writing it of all the tropes that I wanted to cover.
[9:06]You know, I wanted to make sure that this, this guy in the story who's name is James.
[9:12]Here's all the things and experiences, all the things that, that I did and that other
[9:17]women and trans men who are pregnant might, might experience when they are going through
[9:24]pregnancy because because most guys, they just really don't get it.
[9:27]So everything from someone laying their hands on you, a total stranger touching your belly
[9:32]or telling you horrible birth stories to watching yourself get passed over for promotion,
[9:37]even though that is technically illegal because, you know, your company knows that you're
[9:42]going to have to take some time off.
[9:44]Who knows if you're going to come back if you're going to stay off after your parental
[9:46]leave?
[9:47]You know, to my favorite one, of course, is when James finally confirms his pregnancy,
[9:53]his doctor is female, it's a minute clinic, and he is just staring at the doctor and
[9:59]saying, I don't.
[10:00]I don't want this. What do I do? I don't want this. And without even looking up, she goes,
[10:05]well, you should have thought of that before he had sex. I mean, have we not all heard that?
[10:11]And I have to tell you, I mean, this is I keep hammering this my husband with this because I keep
[10:16]talking about it. But do you have you noticed that in this ridiculous cycle of news that we're in?
[10:24]No one is saying anything about the men involved in pregnancy. It's very clear this is a
[10:29]punishment for women. But there's not even accountability for men. You know, we have we have
[10:36]laws that are being proposed in southern states where a rapist's family can force a woman to
[10:43]carry that child to term. And there isn't even accountability for the person who unwillingly,
[10:52]you know, this woman was unwillingly made pregnant, obviously. It's to me, it is absolutely
[10:58]vile and a tremendous and glaring omission. You want to talk about getting rid of row. All right,
[11:04]let's put along the books first that says if someone becomes pregnant and they have to carry that
[11:09]baby, they do DNA testing, they figure out who the dad is wherever possible. And that person has to
[11:15]legally commit to 18 years of covering health insurance, childcare subsidies, everything that a woman
[11:21]is going to be stuck with, you know, having an unwanted pregnancy, carrying that term. To me,
[11:28]it's not just unthinkable. It is unconscionable. It is a tremendous setback into the dark ages.
[11:35]And it will have ramifications in the United States that nobody has even begun to consider.
[11:39]We're going to see the economy change. We're going to see women's rights be set back. We're going to,
[11:44]of course, see reversals legally of every other decision that was, you know, based on the privacy,
[11:50]right to privacy laws. So that does take you into contraception and gay marriage and even it's
[11:56]interracial marriage. I mean, where are we going to wind up? If this is the first step.
[11:59]This is so depressing. I know. Sorry. No, no, it's okay. It's just, I like to believe that there
[12:07]is a way to affect change when horrible things seem imminent. Right? What is that? What
[12:13]yes, we can donate to the to any vote that you know, I got to tell you too. This is one of the
[12:19]things I was happiest about when it went to audible. A lot of people who are very podcast
[12:26]forward are younger. There are a lot of younger listeners who get their news and who get their,
[12:31]their content really from podcasts. And they love it. I mean, I know my kids all are obsessed with
[12:36]podcasts. And, you know, that is a group that needs to vote. And they can't say, we didn't get
[12:44]voting this year. That doesn't work. You know, and I really feel like that is something that
[12:50]I hope this piece does. I hope that younger millennial, gen Y people who listen to this,
[12:58]this audible original are reminded that they need to get out and physically vote if they want to
[13:08]affect change in the world. It's really that's all we've got that's left to us at this point,
[13:14]where we can all right more stories. Well, that's a stopgap mission. We still need to vote.
[13:20]I shouldn't have said or I shouldn't have said and and we can write. Right. Yeah. Power up the
[13:26]pen continue. Totally. Right. It actually we need if you like, if there was a whole series,
[13:32]right, like you hand the metaphorical pen to the next author, like you tap the next writer
[13:37]and write another one. And then there becomes a whole series. I don't know. Can I pick someone?
[13:41]Yeah, you pick. Let's do it. Let's do it on this on this podcast. Let's do it. I pick Margaret
[13:46]Atwood. Oh, okay. Yeah, because I think she is, she's really good about, she's pretty good at
[13:52]predicting the future in her fiction. And the futures already happened. So I'd like her as a
[13:57]Canadian to unravel what's being done in America a little bit. I think she'd be brilliant.
[14:01]Okay. I mean, in some ways, she really has. Audible. Did you hear that? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay.
[14:07]Audible can line up the people and then whoever writes the stories can come on my podcast.
[14:11]How about that? Yeah. There we go. Perfect. Okay. So on a lighter note, you also have a show
[14:18]about to premiere. It's going into prehistory soon called Between the Lines. Yes. It's at the
[14:24]second stage theater. And I am so excited. I'm bringing I'm doing one of my moms don't have time to
[14:30]outings, which I'm trying to resurrect. Now that things are back to normal ish sort of a little bit
[14:36]and bringing 60 women to come see your show. And so excited. Excited. By the way, if people
[14:40]listening would like, there are some, a few tickets left. It's prior to this. They've only been
[14:45]available through my newsletter, which you should subscribe to at zippyowens.com. But if you email
[14:51]info at zippyowens.com soon, you may be able to win one of the tickets. You still have to pay
[14:58]for the tickets, but I'm hosting a private cocktail party with Jody right here,
[15:02]and her daughter and the two amazing songwriters for the whole play. And we are going to have
[15:07]the most fun night ever on June. What is it? June 16th. Yes. Okay. Tell us. Tell us all about
[15:13]the play. I'm so excited for it. I can't even tell you how I am for this. This is actually the
[15:19]perfect antidote to our beginning of our conversation because between the lines is a joy spot
[15:24]in a time and a world where we need some joy. And you know, it's the story. It actually is a story
[15:29]that my daughter came up with. We co-wrote two novels, a series, a young adult series based off
[15:34]an idea that she had when she was 13. She called me up on a book tour. I was stuck in traffic in LA,
[15:40]so I'm sure you can relate to that. I can relate to that. And so I was sitting in traffic and she's
[15:45]like, mom, I think I have a really good idea for a book. And I was like, all right, let's hear it.
[15:48]And she said, well, what if every time you close to book the characters inside it had lives and
[15:52]personalities completely different from what they were in the book? And what if there was a
[15:59]teenage girl who was having a really rough time because our parents had gotten divorced,
[16:03]she was being bullied at school, she had to move. And she like many, many people found solace
[16:09]in books, dove into a book, got lost in a book. But she was obsessed with a children's fairy tale
[16:14]because the prince who was illustrated in it was really hot. And because his circumstances
[16:20]really spoke to her. And then one day, he really does. And she finds out that he wants out of
[16:26]his story just as badly as she wants out of hers. And when we wrote, the Sammy was 16 when the
[16:33]first book was published. And then we wrote the second one when she was in college, we stayed up,
[16:37]but we did it by speakerphone from 10 o'clock to midnight every night. And you know, after that
[16:43]was published, I was like, you know what, I don't think we're done. And I can't explain it, except
[16:48]to say it's saying, the story's saying to me. And I really wanted to look into making it
[16:55]the musical through a very bizarre connection at Dartmouth College. I wound up meeting Darryl Roth.
[17:02]And Darryl is like, not Darryl is a genius and, you know, acclaimed multiple Tony award-winning
[17:11]producer and one of the only female producers for Broadway. And I wrote to her and I said,
[17:17]I'm going to do what people do for me all the time that I hate, which is, can you please help me
[17:21]and tell me how to do this in your business? And she basically, you know, taught me the ropes of how
[17:27]to build something into a musical. And she said, you know, the first thing you need to do
[17:30]or find writers for the songs. And so I was like, all right, well, I was told, you know, that Allen
[17:37]Meghan would write my show, but it wouldn't be until like 2030. And I would say I'm lots and lots of
[17:41]money. So I said, well, I want to find like an up and coming team. And it would be awesome to find
[17:45]two women. Well, I didn't know that was like finding two unicorns in the same room. And I
[17:50]actually wound up talking to the head of the BMI workshop, which is like a pipeline for new composers
[17:55]and songwriting teams, as well as two Bobby Lopez, who is well known for the Book of Mormon and
[18:01]Frozen. And they both came up with the same name, which is the team of Sam Sullivan Anderson.
[18:06]I was like, all right, well, that's got to be a sign. When I met with Kate and Alisa,
[18:10]who are our composing team, I was blown away. They're two beautiful smart, crazy talented young
[18:17]ladies. And they came to this meeting with the book completely marked up saying, we think,
[18:22]this is a song and this is, it spoke to them this book because it's the story of a young girl.
[18:27]And that's not something that you see in musical theater very often. I literally just had this
[18:33]conversation with my co-writer. I said, name for me the number of mother daughter shows that you've
[18:40]seen on Broadway that focus on a very real and complex relationship between a mother and daughter.
[18:47]So other than gypsy, which I would not say is a positive one. And Malamillo, which is a farcegal one.
[18:54]I mean, I'll wait. Well, I'm not a, I mean, there is a daughter in Dear Evan Hansen.
[19:00]Great. Doesn't count. Doesn't count. Okay. Since about Evan, what about the Heidi chronicles?
[19:05]I know this is like taking musical musical. Okay. Well, you know what? I won't play this game.
[19:09]You're obviously okay. Well, that's because you can't be honest. Yeah. And that's because honestly,
[19:14]Broadway is not a very welcoming community for women or women's stories. There are two all-female
[19:20]songwriting teams for Broadway. I have worked with both of them both too. That's it just too.
[19:26]You know, there you can count on one hand, the number of female producers. There are
[19:29]what I love about this story is that it is an empowerment story. It is about understanding that
[19:36]if you don't like the story you're in, you can write a new one. You are the engineer of your own
[19:41]life. And frankly, after the last two years, is there anyone who does not want to get
[19:46]themselves out of whatever story we were all stuck in? And I can tell you it's not the monkey
[19:51]pox one that I want. You know, I mean, the, just the, I think the positivity in this story
[19:59]is...
[20:00]Such it's so joyful. It's a great love story. It is funny. It's a very funny funny show, which I love and
[20:08]It's been such a tremendous honor to work in a place that is right with women on its creative team
[20:17]Our director Jeff Calhoun is not a woman, but he is brilliant. He directed news is of course our book writer Timothy Mcdonald
[20:24]also not a woman, but so generous because he has asked Sami and I to collaborate
[20:31]So the three of us are the ones who have been crafting all the words that are spoken during the show and organizing it and
[20:37]It was devastating in 2020 when we were two weeks away from opening our rehearsals and we found out of course that Broadway
[20:44]It shut down and I honestly I've never in my life experienced such depression
[20:49]It wrecked me because Broadway is a long game and to have spent so many years in development and then to have all that fall away
[20:59]It was heartbreaking and now we're all in this room
[21:02]We just started rehearsals this week and we're all looking ground going
[21:06]I think this happened for a reason because the cast that we have now is by far the best cast we've ever had
[21:14]The talent is off the charts Ariel Jacobs and Julia Murney had everyone in tears yesterday doing a scene
[21:21]Jake David Smith is going to be he's going to have a million girls and boys falling in love with him because he is a dreamboat and
[21:29]His voice is insane and you know it is it is a delightful
[21:34]delightful
[21:35]cocoon of joy
[21:36]That's really what it feels like in the room because we're all so excited and privileged to be there
[21:42]And we know we're telling a story that needs to be told right now not just one about taking the reins of your own narrative
[21:48]But one about let's bring this full circle women mattering and women's stories mattering all of a sudden
[21:55]This is sort of taken on a whole new cast for me because I think it's really important that we remind the Broadway community
[22:02]That our story is mattered just as much as those of have enhanced it or any other young male coming of age story and
[22:11]You know when you get right down to the nuts and bolts of this business
[22:13]It's usually women who buy the tickets
[22:15]So why are they allowed to see their hopes and dreams and fears and and accomplishments on a stage?
[22:21]What about Annie?
[22:23]Well, Andy doesn't really have a mom. I know but it's like a young girl story. I mean you would hang it on to that
[22:31]I told you I was good
[22:34]Mother daughter mother daughter, you know what come see the preview and
[22:39]Circle back with me. You'll see what I mean. I'm sure they're you know like every mom daughter
[22:44]I mean look Sammy and I wrote this book sitting side by side. Do you know how hard that is with the teenager?
[22:48]You know, I was fantastic and also really hard and I think that's that's in there
[22:54]You know, love there's a daughter's have a specific kind of tension because you know you're trying to separate from your mother
[23:00]But you always wanted to be coming hurt somehow. Yeah
[23:03]And so I think that that finding the common ground between them for Delilah and Grace in the story is something that
[23:10]Every woman in the audience is gonna experience. I know that when we debuted this in Kansas city seven years ago
[23:16]We had people come see the show and then they would come back three or four more times
[23:21]They would bring their mothers and then they would bring their daughters
[23:24]We had grown men who were like it was the strangest thing it was grown men who were like contractors
[23:29]And you know like like just not the kind of guys you could imagine seeing him musical would come out at
[23:36]intermission sobbing in the lobby to say I am Delilah
[23:39]This is this is who I was growing up and I was like yeah, I feel like we were doing therapy sessions and lobby
[23:45]We're in the show. It was just a really cathartic and
[23:49]joyous, you know experience and you leave you will leave the theater feeling better than you did when you walk in and
[23:57]I'm so sorry in advance, but you will never get the songs written by a sense of Anderson out of your head
[24:02]I told them when they started writing for us. I would like you to out Disney Disney
[24:07]and they did and as a matter of fact on the strength of their songs for between the lines
[24:12]They were hired by Disney. Oh, and central park. They were the third stuff songwriters for Central Park and Apple
[24:17]Wow, just really talented ladies. Well, I have to say when Daryl told me what this play was about I was like
[24:23]You know, I my parents got to worse and I was 14 and I did lose myself in books
[24:28]And I just wrote this whole memoir book ends about that whole experience and falling into books
[24:33]And I'm always talking in this podcast about like well, but what if that character jumped into that book like what if what if
[24:39]I like could have a new book about that so anyway, I was like yeah
[24:42]It's gonna be my favorite play ever. I have to do something. I cannot wait. I am so excited. I'm so glad you're coming
[24:47]I can't wait. It's like we all have literary crushes, right?
[24:50]That was why I wanted to write this with Sammy because she came up with a great idea. Yeah
[24:53]And you know, what if your literary crush actually showed up?
[24:57]What if I open that door and this is standing behind it?
[25:00]I don't know. Is it if it could happen? I haven't given up. Oh, yeah
[25:03]Wait, so who is the hot guy that you then cast in this play?
[25:08]In our show? Yeah. Yeah, so Prince Oliver who is the the hot illustrated Prince is played by Jake David Smith
[25:15]He was previously in frozen and wait. Here's a great story. He was cast two weeks before we were supposed to open
[25:25]bar rehearsals in 2020
[25:26]so he was cast in early March of 2020 and
[25:31]Most of us were not there. I think Jeff was there and Tim was there a book writer and our director
[25:36]They both had COVID didn't know it. So nobody remembered Jake's life. Oh my gosh
[25:42]And we were so sick. And then when we finally all got to meet Jake and hear him sing and see him act
[25:49]We were all just like are you kidding me? I mean, this guy is this is a star term and
[25:56]You know, he will be able to forever say I think that he was you know
[26:01]This changed his life because I really think it will I just hope we can stage floor by then because there'll be lots of screaming people there watching
[26:08]Take pictures with him and have autographs. I can't wait and then I'll have to come back another time and bring my daughter and my mother
[26:14]Yeah, you're going to come back. I know I can already feel it. I can feel it. Anyway, what an interesting
[26:19]range of topics
[26:21]Affecting change uniting women. I mean
[26:24]It's really amazing harnessing the power of this sort of collective and all these different ways
[26:29]so say again
[26:31]Jody where you are donating the funds from audible if people want to join you in that
[26:35]Yeah, so I'm donating to the national network of abortion funds
[26:40]What they do is they have partner funds in states like Alabama and Mississippi and Louisiana and Texas where it's particularly difficult for women
[26:48]And those who become pregnant to have access to abortion care and they provide
[26:54]Not just funds but literal
[26:57]Zams and transportation and housing if you need to get out of those states to have an abortion
[27:03]So as you can imagine when row falls
[27:06]Their work is going to be even more important than ever and that was why I chose to give the money to them
[27:11]And I encourage if you can make a difference if you have a little extra cash
[27:15]Everything that you can donate to a fund like that whether it's a local fund for you or a national network
[27:21]Planned Parenthood any of those organizations that are doing the work and supporting women
[27:27]You know, they're going to become
[27:28]Critical for all of us and you know to touch on what you said
[27:34]I never thought to put these two topics together between the lights and choice
[27:38]but this is about women
[27:40]supporting each other and
[27:42]a community of people who can become pregnant supporting each other and each other's right to decide when that should happen
[27:50]And that is the one thing that they can't ever take away from us
[27:56]We historically
[27:58]Have banded together and we have moved mountains and we'll do it again
[28:04]Amazing. Well, I will put the donation link in the show notes
[28:08]And also, you know, again if people want to be invited to this special cocktail party get the discount rate email on June 16th in New York City
[28:17]Email info it to be ons.com and thank you. This this is amazing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much
[28:25]All right, I will see you on the 16th. Vivi. Thank you. You're just a light in the world
[28:30]I can't wait to see you and I know you're gonna love the show
[28:32]I can't wait. I know I am too. I'm already
[28:34]I'm already sad. I'm already sad. It's almost over. Okay. You're gonna cry. You're gonna laugh. It's gonna be great
[28:39]All right, goodbye. Bye
[28:42]Hi, I'm Vivi Owens and you're listening to the award winning podcast moms don't have time to read books
[28:48]If you like this podcast, you will love my new anthology called moms don't have time to have kids
[28:54]Check it out and you'll hear from 49 authors about all sorts of things moms don't have time to do
[28:59]All the authors have been on this podcast
[29:01]Also, check out my tiktok at with sivian Tracy my other podcast sex talk with sivian Tracy
[29:06]Check out moms don't have time to write on medium and of course my new publishing company called zivie books
[29:13]And now back to our daily author interview site and a quick hello from some of my kids
[29:18]Hi. Hi. Hello. Enjoy the show