Kelly Rowland and Jessica McKay, ALWAYS WITH YOU, ALWAYS WITH ME
[0:01]Hi, this is Vivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast.
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[0:41]Kelly Rowland is the author of Always With You, Always With Me.
[0:45]She is a four-time Grammy award-winning singer, songwriter, actress, and executive producer
[0:50]with over 40 million record sold.
[0:52]She's known worldwide as a founding member of Destiny's Child, one of the best-selling
[0:56]female groups of all time.
[0:58]Kelly is also the co-author of Woe Baby, a guide for new moms who feel overwhelmed and
[1:03]freaked out and wonder what the blank just happened.
[1:06]She lives in Los Angeles with her husband and to her two children.
[1:11]Please visit kellyroland.com.
[1:13]Also, her co-author is Jessica McKay.
[1:16]She is an educator living in Los Angeles with her husband and three children.
[1:21]While juggling work, family, and self, Jessica has always saved time to read.
[1:25]As an English teacher, she shared her passion for reading with her students.
[1:29]As a mother, she shares her love of books with her children.
[1:32]And now, as an author, Jessica is sharing her first book with the world.
[1:37]Welcome, Kelly and Jessica.
[1:38]Thank you so much for coming on moms.
[1:40]Don't have time to read books to discuss Always With You, Always With Me.
[1:44]Thank you.
[1:46]This book is so perfect.
[1:48]I was like, where has this book been all my life?
[1:50]You have just taken care of my guilt and closed the door on it and shoved it away, so
[1:56]thank you for that.
[1:58]How did this book come about?
[2:02]How did YouTube team up?
[2:04]What's the whole inspiration story?
[2:05]Let me have it.
[2:07]Don't worry, Jess.
[2:08]Yeah.
[2:09]So we are parents together.
[2:12]Our sons are in the same grade and so when they started school, we met and just instantly
[2:18]had a bond.
[2:19]And it was, I know, for me, but also for Kelly, just a really busy time.
[2:24]When is it not?
[2:25]But I was a teacher for a long time, but then I entered in a leadership role at a new
[2:30]school.
[2:31]So I was in startup mode, working like around the clock.
[2:35]I think that was around the time, Kelly.
[2:37]You were flying back and forth to Australia, working on employees.
[2:42]And when we did have time to connect through our children, our story just really emerged
[2:48]and, you know, in between all of that busy working mom stuff, you know, we would read to
[2:55]our children.
[2:56]We spent time with them at school.
[2:58]I have these pictures of, like, Kelly reading to Titan and Chase.
[3:02]Anyway, we realized through all the books, there really wasn't a picture of a mom who would
[3:09]leave to go to work and what that specific separation was, like, usually the books would
[3:15]often have, like, a kid going to school and there's separation, you know, a discussion
[3:21]about it there, but not a working parent, specifically a mom.
[3:25]So we just said, let's, let's create this.
[3:30]Let's make it a story for the world because as, as is evidence from our, our own libraries,
[3:37]it's not there.
[3:38]Yeah.
[3:39]And Tony Morrison said, if there's a book that you want to read, write it, so that's
[3:44]exactly what has happened here and I was fortunate and blessed enough to do it with a fellow
[3:50]mom who understood that and understood and understood just the, the dynamic in the journey
[3:58]between a mother and a child, you know, the, what happens, like the emotional attachment,
[4:04]they're the emotional part of it, which people don't realize or some people don't realize.
[4:09]We go through it just as much as the kids do, so there's like a page where you see the
[4:14]mother cry in the car.
[4:15]There has been several times.
[4:17]If not last night, I'm just going to be transparent where I'm heading off and I've had
[4:21]all this time with my kids and we bought it and we played and we've read and we just had
[4:26]these intimate moments together and then your schedule catches up with you, you know what
[4:31]I mean?
[4:32]So then, you know, it's the separation and you miss them and like I said, crying on the
[4:37]way to the airport, like, oh, baby, even though it's two days, I'll be back in two
[4:42]days, but you just bond and think about what COVID has done, you know, we've had all
[4:47]this time with our kids and just as much as they're like, well, actually, no, my kid
[4:52]is like, bye, mom, I'll see you later, my friends are school, but I'm like, oh my God,
[4:58]I don't have them.
[4:59]Like, you know what I mean?
[5:00]Just all day, every day, which is good for both of us, but yeah, I'm supposed to.
[5:04]That was definitely my favorite page in the book, I'm like, I think that mom is crying.
[5:08]She is crying.
[5:10]And like how this how the she had the little thing that he made her like, I love my mom
[5:15]and how later it's framed, because like little things like right behind the computer,
[5:19]I have like, just a little love notes from my kids are like a little drawing and then
[5:23]when they're not around, I'm like, oh, it's so true, because they're always with you.
[5:29]You're always with them.
[5:31]Exactly.
[5:32]P.S.
[5:33]Hold on.
[5:34]Can you say this?
[5:35]Oh, those are gorgeous.
[5:37]For people listening, Kelly's wearing two rings that say Titan and Noah and beautiful
[5:42]gorgeous rings.
[5:43]Yeah, my late mother-in-law gave me a necklace and like each one of the rings has one of
[5:48]their names on it.
[5:49]So I like to wear that.
[5:50]Yes.
[5:51]Yes.
[5:52]I'm actually I'm divorced and remarried and I have four kids and when I started the custody
[5:58]thing, like I just I would sit in their rooms and and stop.
[6:02]I mean, I was like, how could they not be here?
[6:04]How can I like I was, I'm the type of mom, it sounds like you guys like just so on top,
[6:08]like just wanting to be there and like soaking up every second.
[6:12]I'm like, how could they be gone?
[6:13]It's like the worst.
[6:14]There's no other.
[6:15]Anyways, but totally relate also to the working piece of it too and I love that you included
[6:21]a piece where they're at home, but she's trying to work from home and like, you're like,
[6:28]oh, yeah, you have the sniffles I say is I have like one of my kids and some stairs and
[6:31]like, yeah, close in the door here at Jungle is real.
[6:38]Yeah.
[6:39]Well, what do you do?
[6:40]Like what do you do to make yourself feel better when you're really missing the kids
[6:44]or you're feeling guilty about it?
[6:46]Like after you cry in the car, then like how do you get over it?
[6:50]Do you call them already?
[6:51]Like write them notes.
[6:52]Do you have these magic traces, things, moments that you do?
[6:55]Tell me about them.
[6:56]Yes.
[6:57]I know for me when I'm going, my magic traces are leaving gifts throughout the house
[7:01]but calling them and telling them, oh my God, I left something for you.
[7:04]Did you, mom?
[7:05]I was like, yeah.
[7:06]I was like, go check the cabinet to the right of the trash can in the kitchen and the
[7:12]da da da da da.
[7:13]Wow.
[7:14]So it's like a scavenger hunt.
[7:15]So like that's one thing or every time I go out of town for every of the trip now, because
[7:19]these Legos are getting out of control, I bring him back to Legos that specifically to
[7:24]New York.
[7:25]I say, if I'm going to New York, I'll come back and I have a Lego set.
[7:28]so he's like, are you going to New York?
[7:30]You know, because you know, something is coming from the Lego store.
[7:35]But yeah, those are magic traces and then I leave him notes, pre-written notes for his
[7:40]lunch kit.
[7:41]Well, when he did have lunch, I would leave those, what else?
[7:46]What do you do, Jen?
[7:47]Yeah.
[7:48]I do the notes too.
[7:49]I love handwritten notes, so I'll leave those, you know, in lunches if I know I'm going
[7:54]to have a long day, leave those in the lunches.
[7:57]But then I also just, beforehand, like I do, I do the anticipation thing, like this is
[8:03]about to happen.
[8:04]I'm about to be out of town or gone all day and just know, even if I'm not there, I'm
[8:10]always aware in your heart and like just have that conversation just so it kind of
[8:16]paves the way and like prepares everyone and include, I'm saying it more to myself than
[8:20]I am to them, but it's for them for sure.
[8:24]I say that too.
[8:25]I wonder if it works.
[8:26]I mean, I'm always like, oh, you know, even if you can't see me, you know, I'm thinking
[8:30]of you all the time and I'm there and whatever, but I don't know, again, it's probably
[8:35]more for me.
[8:36]But you guys are scavenger hunts, like I have to get organized, like now you've like
[8:39]shamed me into the like the bad mom category.
[8:42]That's incredible.
[8:43]And I say like Easter egg hunts every time you leave, I have to do that.
[8:47]No, not every time I leave, I don't say that.
[8:49]Okay.
[8:50]Okay.
[8:51]This is shame free.
[8:53]We are not.
[8:54]Yes.
[8:55]Any shame.
[8:56]The whole point of this book is written up.
[8:58]He's kidding.
[8:59]I'm totally kidding.
[9:00]I was like, you see, I've done that at least four times.
[9:05]That's not it.
[9:06]That's a line though.
[9:07]If 300 trips, I've taken it.
[9:09]That's four more times than I've done that.
[9:12]So it's, and that's a great idea too.
[9:14]I think that the book really, you know, really shows that even having the blanket on one
[9:19]of the beds, right, like like the aunt is putting this into bed and it's just a reminder
[9:24]of how much a mother's love can be there all the time, even if you're not there.
[9:29]And then of course they think of, you know, parent loss and there are a lot of kids whose
[9:33]parents have, you know, passed away.
[9:36]And Kelly, I read that when you had your baby, your mom passed away three weeks later,
[9:39]which is so awful.
[9:40]I'm so sorry about that.
[9:42]And how do you, you know, how do you go through when your mom is not there?
[9:48]And so, and still taking that love with you everywhere you go.
[9:51]Well, here's the thing.
[9:52]I mean, when you think about like you were just saying a mother's love and how it's a constant,
[9:58]I can feel her around.
[10:00]me. It's never a day that I can't or even if there's something like I remember maybe a month ago
[10:06]yeah because it was really really cold that night and the house got cold but I was we were fine like
[10:13]in the room but I was like Noah like I literally woke up and said no but it took happened so quick
[10:19]and so I go to his room and it's sure enough his room is cold I was like I was definitely knocked out
[10:24]that was not me. That wasn't my fault. You better cover up my baby.
[10:30]All I said was Noah when I woke up and then walked with his room and there was an icicle so we
[10:36]cut the heat on but I was like how insane. So like still have that kind of stuff or when we're
[10:42]outside I always say like I know she's there because of butterflies. So but I'd say butterflies
[10:47]or when I see someone doing sign language because she used to sign she was the most beautiful signer
[10:54]but on spring days she would love butterflies. So it's just things always with you always with me
[11:00]that make perfect sense the memories that you make the moments that you make a girlfriend of mine
[11:04]just took her son on a mother's son trip I was like oh I have to start doing that he's old enough
[11:09]now to where where we we start creating these memories for our kids and that solidifies the
[11:16]always with you always with me those are just it just stacks the relationship and it's just so
[11:22]beautiful how layered it is motherhood period. Even fatherhood a little too I mean I remember
[11:28]as a girl like my dad worked a lot and all the time and I missed him a lot but he took me on these
[11:33]two weekend adventures I can't hear like a monkey adventure whatever he called it and I remember
[11:39]those more than like anything in my whole childhood we probably were gone for a night twice
[11:44]in my life but I'm like I remember going in Washington DC and we went to colonial Williamsburg
[11:49]and like that's what I remember and I feel like all these moments right you don't need it doesn't
[11:54]have to be around the clock all the stuff it's just like these one thing just make that memory
[11:59]make it different than like you know another day where they come home and I'm sitting here and
[12:03]like anyway so I think you can you can also make a really big impact with a little bit of time
[12:09]yeah absolutely sure I loved how on the weekends they all get back together and the little trampoline
[12:16]I'm like how in time can I spend on the trampoline yeah by the way that's the the best time for me
[12:23]like my sister has a trampoline in her house and after I had Noah that was what three months after
[12:29]I had Noah I remember I was just I was on the trampoline and jumping on it in my nieces
[12:34]and of course Titan was there and somebody was holding Noah but I was jumping and I was
[12:40]having the best time and I'm just going completely ham and my sister goes you just had a baby
[12:48]you have to be careful I was like oh that's right that's right love just having so much fun
[12:55]and the kids were jumping with us and we were just falling all over the place but I was like this is
[13:00]memory I love it oh now I feel like I know it I know it you mean about like your body after baby
[13:06]because I read your book whoa baby with like most intimate details yeah but how great like how
[13:19]great that book too just to let everybody know in like the funny great way that you did like
[13:25]what is to come I wish I had had that book before I had my kids a long time ago right because I
[13:29]didn't I was not prepared even though you read the books right like sometimes you just want like
[13:33]a girlfriend to be like no no no let me tell you and that's what your that book was you know thank
[13:38]you that's what I wanted it to be literally like your girlfriends I'm just like I just want to tell
[13:43]you what's about because nobody did that for me like it was like you know the stuff that's like
[13:50]surface you know you're not going to get any rest well yeah no crap there's a new human it has
[13:55]to figure out exactly how to maneuver on this new space we call earth with families so many
[14:01]interactions like trying to help them acclimate but your body has to acclimate to this a while
[14:07]and Jess I don't know if you felt this way also but in Kelly's book she talked about
[14:12]sort of feeling abandoned right after her baby got bored because suddenly all the attention was
[14:16]on the baby yeah okay Kelly just like almost spit out her water at that kind of I have time
[14:22]to where family will come to visit me and they hug my children they'll give them all that
[14:27]that I'm standing there like hi hello it's still the case yeah I know but I get it I mean they
[14:38]are they're miracles they are amazing and but you know actually that was part of our journey
[14:46]in this book is like really bringing to light I mean it's rare for a children's book to have
[14:53]as prominent the the mother and so you know usually the focal point is the child but this book
[15:00]and I've seen others recently do it too where there's a parent that kind of comes into prominence
[15:07]and I think that ties into exactly what we're saying just like really we are the ones reading the
[15:13]books to the child so bringing in other layers and other other characters and topics because
[15:20]they see us the kids are always watching they're always you know noticing so kind of like blending
[15:26]those worlds and again like bringing a little bit more attention to some of the grown-ups that they
[15:32]love also was important yeah like the dad and the aunt you know yes there's this whole village
[15:38]and even even what you what you did about getting up early and taking like I'm up early taking
[15:44]care of all the stuff that I need to do to make your world run because it is such unseen
[15:49]work right it takes so much time I wrote this whole article like soon after my divorce is like six
[15:55]seven years ago I was like it was called a mother's right to sanity because I'm like all I wanted
[15:59]was to spend time with my kids when I had my kids and instead I'm sitting in my computer and there's
[16:03]so many forms and so much people so much stuff with every kid this guy this camp this play day that
[16:10]I'm like how are you supposed to do this and and actually work right there's this funny like me
[16:16]like I had to quit my job to answer my or respond to my child's schools emails it's real that
[16:23]is so true it's just a lot so yeah that was a page that we'd love just starting zooming in on
[16:33]the day that it begins even before the child even knows and to us that was just really beautiful
[16:40]the other day my son said what do you do while we're at school I had to like really he doesn't
[16:46]they have no idea and so I feel like this book and and others that I've seen there's one
[16:53]called you be mommy I love that one about this mom's like you be mommy tonight and just kind of
[16:59]walks you through her her day too because the kids they they don't really know and so our goal is
[17:06]really to shift the narrative like let's normalize and own all of this modern motherhood and
[17:14]remove guilt remove all of that show the emotions of it all and kind of the roller coaster
[17:19]but weak in the life of it but not you know not late and it would so much of the of the stress
[17:27]and shame that can come with it. Kelly I feel like there's this maybe this is a misperception that
[17:33]like oh like people who are famous don't have to deal with all this kind of stuff like it must
[17:37]just all work I dispelled the myth please. First of all that's just I just feel like it's just
[17:44]disrespectful for someone to assume that kind of thing only because I feel like you know somebody
[17:53]wants to I remember saying I'm on just so tired it's someone said well you have help I said first of
[18:00]I don't say help like that I have a support system that's what it is I have a support system
[18:10]to be able to do the things that I love and will allow my children to do the things that they love
[18:18]have a roof over their head close enough back and shoes on their feet and in food in their mouth so
[18:23]for me yes it might be as someone says a celebratory or extraordinary lifestyle but I'm still trying
[18:31]to figure out how to balance it all you know what I mean like my husband my kids my job and
[18:39]shield them from all of that you know I still have their innocence wow you know everything being so
[18:47]out you know what I mean so it's I don't think that one helps more weight than the other I just
[18:53]think that we're all moms and we're all trying to figure this out and nobody gets a a rule book
[18:59]or or anything because somewhere along the way I'm going to screw up I always say that like because
[19:05]I remember I used to put a tremendous amount of pressure on myself and say oh well this has to be
[19:10]perfect though I don't want because I want this to be better than mine and I was like no a girlfriend
[19:14]of mine just sent me down she's like you know you're going to screw up right you know you're
[19:19]she's like I love you I know she's like but I see you stressed by just being a mother and you can't
[19:25]enjoy just the day-to-day things that's gonna happen she was like even in the moment said it's
[19:30]the challenge and you like what do I do and your stress she was like you have to just kind of like
[19:36]just submerge yourself in that moment to am surrender just surrender to mother and surrender to white
[19:43]just surrender and I was like okay ever since I've done that I've been great I've been great
[19:50]because and I figure it out along the way it's not to say that it's it's not hard you know I'm
[19:55]about posted something or time was infested if he was singing
[20:00]And I guess I had tied in seatbelt on like a strap or something was the wrong way, it was on, but it was the wrong way.
[20:09]So somebody was like, I can't believe what kind of mother would and I was like, Oh, that's what we're doing like for moms just trying to figure it all out.
[20:19]We don't have time to do that.
[20:20]It's like someone told me to say, you know, when you have your kid, you are born a mother, your born a mother of one, when you have two, you're born a mother of two, when you're born three, you're born another three, so it's like, and so on and so on.
[20:33]But it's like, you don't get a rule to this, like you don't get a rule book to this, like you just have to figure it out and I'm figuring it out like everybody else.
[20:42]So I don't judge anybody when it comes to motherhood because I've been judged.
[20:48]I mean, you have to be like a certified genius to work all of the different contraptions designed for kids, car seats and strollers and whatever.
[20:56]I'm like, that's like, I felt this huge sense of being relieved once I got my kids out of strollers so I could stop feeling like a moron because I couldn't collapse them.
[21:07]You know, I'm like, I, you know, I'm very accomplished in some areas, but like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like ready to break the stroller because I cannot figure out.
[21:16]I'm like watching YouTube videos like next to my stroller, like what is wrong with me?
[21:23]I just think they don't worry.
[21:28]Well, you know, you could really tell, you know, it's through your Instagram and through, you know, when Hoda and Jenna surprised you with your kids watching.
[21:36]Oh my gosh, that's like maybe you want to cry and you could see your emotion. It was so beautiful.
[21:41]And it's just so great to have this role model of like reality of motherhood versus Instagram perfection of motherhood, which like none of us really need right that doesn't help anybody on realistic expectations because it is hard.
[21:56]And even if you surrender to motherhood, it's still hard.
[22:00]It's still and then it'll change the next days.
[22:03]Absolutely. It's like there's this one video where there's, I don't know if it's, if it's her kid or not, but I was like, wow, she looks great.
[22:13]She's out of baby, but this woman is holding her baby.
[22:17]And she puts her leg up.
[22:20]Oh, yeah.
[22:22]I wanted to try that so bad, but I wanted to fail at it and film it.
[22:27]I wanted to try to lift my life.
[22:31]Almost like I can't think of that one comedian in the UK. So last Barbara.
[22:36]Oh, I wanted to do is the last Barbara version of that so bad.
[22:42]I was like, Oh, I can never do that.
[22:47]That is a great trick.
[22:51]So are you two going to do more books together, I hope, or individual books or another
[22:58]advice book or what do you have on the, on the literary scene? What's coming next?
[23:02]I mean, we'll help you.
[23:04]Yeah, a lot of people are saying where, where's the book with the dad? Where's this?
[23:10]And so people people are asking, but you know, we'll see.
[23:13]We want to get through this one and see what's next for sure.
[23:18]So exciting.
[23:19]I kind of want to see this mom and other other scenarios.
[23:22]I'm like, I don't know.
[23:23]I love it.
[23:24]This woman.
[23:25]I'm like, where's she going to go next?
[23:26]Yeah.
[23:27]Maybe she can help me get through, you know, high school applications.
[23:32]We're not there yet.
[23:36]Never ends.
[23:38]Right.
[23:39]You can write that one for us.
[23:41]Oh, yeah.
[23:43]Well, having written this book, do you have advice for artists of any kind?
[23:48]I know performers, children's book authors, like your creators, both of you.
[23:54]So what advice do you have for other people who aspire to be in your shoes in any way?
[23:59]I know.
[24:00]I would say, like I said, from Tony Morrison, if there's a book you want to, you want to read, write it.
[24:07]But I feel like, and I say that again because I feel like everything changes.
[24:14]Like the world is continuously changing.
[24:17]And I think that for kids to be able to see just every day scenarios of life and storytelling is really important.
[24:25]It's necessary.
[24:26]And it allows them to be well rounded on all things that have to do with their space and their world and how it's evolving and changing.
[24:33]So, you know, we're in a place now to where we can see a black mother that's an architect in a book, you know what I mean.
[24:42]And it like, I never saw books with kids that look like me and them.
[24:47]That's a really big win.
[24:49]And we have to continue to do that for other races or other sexes period.
[24:54]I just feel like it's, it's important.
[24:57]It's important for sure.
[24:59]Absolutely.
[25:00]What about you, Jess?
[25:02]I would just say to make time for it.
[25:06]We all have were born with creativity and whatever that is, whether it's through arts or writing music sharing our stories.
[25:15]There's something creative in us.
[25:17]And as we grow up, I think sometimes the world can start to pull that away from us.
[25:24]So, even if it's like two minutes, five minutes a day, my kids are very close in age.
[25:30]I have three of them.
[25:31]I know you have four.
[25:32]We're all busy.
[25:33]Kelly's got her two kids and a huge career.
[25:37]But just make time, you know, find that.
[25:40]My friend and another author, Eve Ratsky calls it unicorns.
[25:44]Yeah.
[25:45]So, really take that time because our other demands pull us in so many different directions.
[25:52]So, if you just do a little here and a little there and every other, every day kind of add to it.
[25:58]I think that's what really life is all about.
[26:01]And that's what, you never know.
[26:02]It can turn into something.
[26:04]So, don't let the world tell you all your, your two busy up too many kids.
[26:09]You have too much going on.
[26:11]You can still do it.
[26:12]It's true.
[26:13]You know, it would be great is if you guys came up with a list for moms who maybe aren't as creative for the magic moments.
[26:21]You know, the things like the Easter egg hunt or leaving the scavenger hunt like post somewhere like post on Instagram or something.
[26:28]Give like 10, 10 things moms can do to like leave behind something that's more creative than just a note.
[26:34]Yeah.
[26:35]I'm going to do that.
[26:36]We do that.
[26:37]That would be helpful.
[26:39]Because I would do it if I had the guidance and and ideas or maybe like idea of the week for a, you know, a magic trace.
[26:47]Here's your idea of the week.
[26:48]And then this week I'll do a scavenger hunt next week.
[26:50]I would do.
[26:51]I don't know.
[26:52]Yeah.
[26:53]Try to knit a pillow or something.
[26:54]Yeah.
[26:55]Yeah.
[26:56]You see that feeling.
[26:57]That's a great idea.
[26:58]Actually, we should do that just like on the build up to the book.
[27:02]Just like post.
[27:03]You know what I mean.
[27:04]I'm going to talk to someone.
[27:05]That's a great idea.
[27:06]Thank you.
[27:07]You're welcome.
[27:08]Hey, women.
[27:09]When we work together.
[27:10]Yeah.
[27:11]You can tag me.
[27:14]I'm at Zippy Owens.
[27:15]You know.
[27:17]I don't want to.
[27:18]I'll read post and spread the word.
[27:21]And then I'll show myself like doing the thing and post your book.
[27:25]Anyway, I'm so excited about this book.
[27:27]I can't even tell you it's like, you know, music to my ear.
[27:30]So thank you for writing it and helping moms in this way by, you know, just being so relatable.
[27:36]Even though you could easily not be.
[27:38]It's just really amazing.
[27:39]So anyway, thanks to both of you.
[27:41]Really fun.
[27:42]Thank you.
[27:43]All right.
[27:44]Take care.
[27:45]Bye bye.
[27:46]Bye.
[27:47]Bye.
[27:48]Hi.
[27:49]I'm Zippy Owens.
[27:50]And you're listening to the award winning podcast.
[27:52]Moms don't have time to read books.
[27:54]If you like this podcast, you will love my new anthology called Moms Don't Have Time
[27:59]to Have Kids.
[28:00]Check it out.
[28:01]And you'll hear from 49 authors about all sorts of things.
[28:03]Moms don't have time to do.
[28:05]All the authors have been on this podcast.
[28:07]Also, check out my TikTok at with Zippy and Tracy.
[28:10]My other podcast, Sex Talk with Zippy and Tracy.
[28:13]Check out Moms Don't Have Time to Write on Medium.
[28:16]And of course, my new publishing company called Zippy Books.
[28:19]And now back to our daily author interview site.
[28:22]And a quick hello from some of my kids.
[28:24]Hi.
[28:25]Hello.
[28:26]Enjoy the show.