Gervais Hagerty, IN POLITE COMPANY: A Novel
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[0:38]Enjoy the show!
[0:41]Jervais Hagerty is the author of In-Pelite Company, a novel.
[0:45]Jervais grew up in Charleston, South Carolina.
[0:48]After reporting and producing the news for both radio and television, she taught communications
[0:52]at the Citadel.
[0:53]When not writing, she works on local environmental and transportation issues.
[0:57]She lives in Charleston with her husband and two daughters.
[1:00]Welcome, Jervais.
[1:01]Thanks for coming on mom's.
[1:02]Don't have time to read books to discuss In-Pelite Company.
[1:04]Thank you so much for having me on.
[1:06]Well, I have to say what appealed to me initially about this was the Charleston setting,
[1:11]because my husband lived in Charleston for like 12 years, and loved it so much that his,
[1:16]he got his parents to move there and his sister, who ended up living there even longer
[1:20]than he did.
[1:21]So, yeah.
[1:22]So, yeah.
[1:23]When I met him, I actually went down there a bunch, but yeah.
[1:27]He lived on Folly Beach with a couple of friends.
[1:29]Awesome.
[1:31]But he worked on Sullivan's Island for a while, and his parents lived in, you take the
[1:38]bridge and it's a little bit further away.
[1:41]Okay.
[1:42]Probably Mount Pleasant or something.
[1:43]Mount Pleasant.
[1:44]Mount Pleasant.
[1:45]There you go.
[1:46]Oh, and does that make...
[1:47]There's an all-in-law.
[1:48]That's even farther.
[1:49]Yeah.
[1:50]That's where they lived when I met them.
[1:51]That was beautiful.
[1:52]Yeah, cool.
[1:53]So, anyway, I got to go into that famous biscuit place.
[1:55]Sally's Biscuits.
[1:56]Yeah.
[1:57]Yeah.
[1:58]Yeah.
[1:59]The King Street area.
[2:00]Yeah.
[2:01]It's quite a business moment.
[2:02]She's really hustled.
[2:03]It's kind of fun to watch from afar.
[2:04]Yeah.
[2:05]My in-laws had a crumb cake business, so they had...
[2:06]I mean, I still haven't.
[2:07]My sister-in-law.
[2:08]But anyway, at one point, we were like, you should partner with Kelly's Biscuits.
[2:11]Like, that would be amazing.
[2:12]Like, where's her?
[2:13]Yeah.
[2:14]Where's her facility?
[2:15]Yeah.
[2:16]So, anyway, I was like, I would love to go to Charleston.
[2:17]Thank you for asking.
[2:20]And it didn't disappoint.
[2:21]You have like all the places and everything, plus of course this wonderful relationship.
[2:24]So could you please tell this nurse what input company is about?
[2:27]And what inspired you to write it?
[2:28]Sure.
[2:29]Okay.
[2:30]Well, I'll give my little pitch.
[2:31]Input company, as you said, it's based in Charleston, which is my hometown.
[2:34]And it's kind of like a peak behind the veil of high society here.
[2:38]So, it's like an invitation to those beautiful antebellum homes along the water.
[2:43]Into the fancy parties.
[2:45]So, like, Debbie Tom Falls with kidskin gloves that go past the elbow.
[2:50]Purls oysters.
[2:51]But I do say I just stamped with a big fat warning label.
[2:54]There's sex, drugs and rock and roll in here.
[2:56]And I like to think a little bit of a flick in the nuts to the patriarchy.
[2:59]So, it's been such a blast to write.
[3:02]And it's been just even more fun to talk about it.
[3:05]So, once again, thank you so much for having me on.
[3:07]Of course.
[3:08]What I really loved was the depiction.
[3:11]Well, I mean, one of the things that stood out was this depiction of an older,
[3:15]relationship.
[3:16]Right?
[3:17]I'm an appropriate mispronense.
[3:18]Tito, and lottie.
[3:19]Lottie.
[3:20]Lottie.
[3:21]Yeah.
[3:22]Lottie.
[3:23]Lottie.
[3:24]Lottie.
[3:25]Lottie.
[3:26]Lottie.
[3:27]No hearing what it's like to be in a, the relationship that the grandmother is in.
[3:31]Watching that in the way you wrote their relationship.
[3:34]And then what she might have kept from him in the past and how that all starts trickling out.
[3:38]But also just what does it mean to not settle?
[3:42]That's the wrong word.
[3:43]I mean to like settle into your relationship and old age and have misgivings or have whatever.
[3:48]And what does that look like?
[3:49]I don't know.
[3:50]I found that really fascinating.
[3:51]So tell me to talk to me more about that relationship.
[3:54]Well, the second question you asked, and I was so excited to get my pitch.
[3:57]I just blew right through it.
[3:58]It was the inspiration of my novel.
[4:00]And that is my grandmother, Aggie, is her name.
[4:04]And when I was away for about a decade, I came back to Charleston in my late 20s.
[4:09]The city looked different.
[4:10]It felt different.
[4:11]I was different.
[4:12]I was licking my wounds from a divorce.
[4:15]And I come back and I saw my grandmother in a different way.
[4:19]I mean, when you have a relationship with your grandmother as a child, it's just like very sweet and pure and simple love.
[4:26]And when I came back, I saw her as a much more complicated individual.
[4:32]And we became really good friends.
[4:34]And she is, she was a very curious person.
[4:38]She wasn't very necessarily feisty.
[4:41]But I knew if I could kind of run her around the city.
[4:44]We could go have a lot of adventures.
[4:46]And we did.
[4:47]And it made me think like, gosh, how many adventures did she not have?
[4:50]Just because of the times that she was born into, the circumstances,
[4:54]the just the systems that play with just like males and females in the South, in the city, in the world.
[5:00]And then when she was in hospice, I was just, I was a wreck.
[5:05]I was a wreck obviously because I love her.
[5:08]And I was just heartbroken that she was leaving this world.
[5:12]But I was also, I was angry because I thought what her life could have been.
[5:17]And it really just gave me this fire to start writing.
[5:23]I didn't ever intend to write a novel.
[5:25]I had this time, it was a catharsis.
[5:28]And so I was just writing and writing and writing and trying to process all of this.
[5:32]Because I just imagined that if she were born at a different time,
[5:36]we just would have been these two best friends exploring the world together and making up our dreams
[5:42]and chasing after them.
[5:43]And so I don't know.
[5:44]I feel like I just, I just wanted to give her a wild side that, you know,
[5:48]I just, I don't think she ever was encouraged to have.
[5:51]That's so cool.
[5:52]It's like the back to the future grandmother edition.
[5:55]I love that, right?
[5:57]Because I would love to hang out with my grandmother too.
[6:00]Like what would she be like for the same age?
[6:03]I mean, she was so feisty and funny and had like the best sense of humor.
[6:06]And I'm like, sometimes I think the same thing.
[6:09]It's like, okay, well, if she were here today, you know,
[6:12]she'd probably be on Twitter all the time.
[6:14]You know what I mean?
[6:15]Like she'd have like a totally different life.
[6:17]Yeah.
[6:18]We'd probably be friends.
[6:19]I think there's the thing about that skipped generation that makes it like,
[6:22]okay, to be really close to your grandmother no matter what.
[6:25]Well, it is true.
[6:26]Yeah, because you can't tell your mom everything.
[6:29]I just, or I didn't.
[6:30]And yeah, there is that, that kind of buffer.
[6:33]That is, that's, yeah.
[6:35]And I love to like how perfect it was that when scene where you have her stretching
[6:40]and doing her ballet at the bar, right?
[6:42]And the mom comes in and of course the granddaughter gets in trouble
[6:46]for letting her grandmother stretch.
[6:48]I'm not speaking very coherently.
[6:50]But you know, like there's a scene where the grandmother has her leg like up high
[6:55]or something like that.
[6:56]And the mom comes in and is like, what are you doing to your grandmother?
[6:58]She's going to fall.
[6:59]She's going to break her hip, whatever.
[7:00]And there's this like conspiratorial glance, right?
[7:04]Like it's okay.
[7:05]Like it's okay.
[7:06]This is what she wants to do.
[7:07]But of course the mom is the bad guy, right?
[7:09]Yeah.
[7:10]Yeah.
[7:11]And that's another just interesting part of just, just aging.
[7:14]And you know, if you do the things you love, you're not going to be able to do
[7:17]anything much more.
[7:18]But maybe just go out with the bang.
[7:20]And so I, my grandmother was a beautiful woman.
[7:24]She used to walk the streets to Charleston.
[7:26]Everybody knew and Aggie went for a walk.
[7:28]I mean, she kind of walked with this little strut.
[7:30]And all the men would come out to the Piazza.
[7:33]And my aunt Susan even wrote a poem about her was and it goes,
[7:38]some moms have this and some moms have that.
[7:41]But I've got a mom.
[7:42]You can whistle that.
[7:45]She was, but she was never a dancer, but it was really easy for me to imagine
[7:49]because she was just so elegant.
[7:51]And so that is sort of how that all came to be.
[7:54]And then I wanted to give her that backstory, that passion, that desire,
[7:58]that like untouchable dream that a man didn't have his hands on.
[8:03]Wow.
[8:04]Do you have a picture of her?
[8:06]I do.
[8:07]I have a younger one, but I have to like run far away, but this is her ring.
[8:09]I wear every day.
[8:10]Oh, that's gorgeous.
[8:12]That is so gorgeous.
[8:13]Yeah.
[8:14]So it's like, sometimes when I don't do right, I kind of give it a little.
[8:17]Oh.
[8:18]Yeah.
[8:19]So.
[8:20]Well, you're like stunningly beautiful.
[8:22]So I'm not, I would not be surprised that she is also sweet.
[8:25]I'm not pan on makeup or wash my hair and six days.
[8:29]So until today.
[8:31]Well, then I feel even worse.
[8:36]Well, yeah, it's just crazy to think of what life would be like and what maybe our lives
[8:42]would be like in future generations.
[8:43]But anyway, wait, so tell me a little more about you didn't think you were writing a novel.
[8:49]Keep going.
[8:50]And by the way, with rings, I found this ring at a pawn shop in Charleston.
[8:54]Like a, what do you call it?
[8:55]Like one of those antique stores.
[8:57]My wedding ring, can you see it?
[8:58]Yeah.
[8:59]And then we bought it and brought it back here.
[9:02]And I had a jeweler like resize it and then he found out the jeweler up here found out it was
[9:06]actually the diamond was totally cracked.
[9:08]So we sent it back the actual thing.
[9:11]But then my jeweler up here made an exact copy that like wasn't original.
[9:15]But I always wondered too, like what is the story of the woman who wore this ring in Charleston
[9:19]and had it again in that store and who wasn't?
[9:21]Anyway, if I were a novelist, I would, I would tread right that story.
[9:24]That's such a good, that's such a good nugget.
[9:27]I mean, that's all it really takes to get a story.
[9:29]It's just this one kernel of fascination that you can just kind of like stare at and manipulate
[9:35]and try to figure out.
[9:36]So I was a professor at the Citadel, which is the military college here.
[9:41]And I had these breaks, I had summers off.
[9:44]And that was, one was a summer night when my grandmother was in hospice.
[9:48]And it was my, my second child was an infant.
[9:51]And my first maternity leave.
[9:54]I mean, I love being with my baby, but I was going bonkers, not using my brain in a way.
[9:59]I.
[10:00]was supposed to. It was like bad. It was just, it was not healthy, I don't think. And so this next
[10:06]go around with this next kid, I'm like, I'm going to have somebody for three hours a day,
[10:10]just three. And I'm just going to, I'm just going to do something. And then through the whole
[10:14]situation with my grandmother, it became writing. So that's how it got started. And then I just
[10:19]got obsessed. And I think in life, if you find something that you're just like, nothing is
[10:25]going to get in your way, maybe that's the thing you need to be doing. And so when I just, I really
[10:32]worked hard on this novel for years. And then I just networked my tail off. And I met as many
[10:36]people as I could. And I begged this woman who's New York Times bestseller based on the Isle of
[10:42]Palms to read my manuscript. It took her about a year. But not too long after she did and she gave me
[10:47]great advice. She kind of connected me with my editor. Like I had an offer with Harper Collins
[10:53]before I had an agent. It was all just a real fair, fairytale dream. So I tend to get things I
[10:58]want through the back door. But it works for me. Yeah. So that's, that's kind of how I was doing that.
[11:04]And then I took the leap, leaving my, my job, which was great. I absolutely loved it. I mean,
[11:08]it's a military college. I work uniform at shoulder boards and a berry. And then teaching all these
[11:14]hands them 18 to 22 year old. There's some women there too. Yeah. It was a tough decision.
[11:19]What were you, what were you teaching them? Communication. So I used to work. This won't be
[11:23]surprising. You're having read it. I used to work as a new producer and reporter. So I had
[11:28]that. And that's what my main character does. So that's, I had that and I have my MBA and that's
[11:31]how I got to be teaching at the Citadel. It was, it was so fun. So anyway, but then I, then my
[11:37]husband and I would just made this big financial plan of how we would save our money. So I had
[11:42]enough cash for a year where we weren't dipping into our savings that if I didn't sell the book,
[11:48]we wouldn't be in a financial panic. But fortunately, I did. Wow. That is so cool. Good for you.
[11:55]I was like taking the risk and just doing it. How, so how old are your kids now? Six and four.
[12:01]Wow. Oh my gosh. See, this just goes to show all this determination, right? Like books take time
[12:06]that like, it, it can work out, right? It can. I mean, I really think like it is sheer
[12:13]well. I mean, I'm just going to do it. That's how I feel. And I'm almost done with this next one and
[12:18]I'm just pushing constantly telling you about the next time. Oh, well, okay. So it's so hard to sum
[12:26]up something, but I'm going to do my best. So I like to think of it as in four parts. So this is my
[12:31]first book, as you know, is first person and one perspective. This next one is four different
[12:36]perspectives. One is an older woman. And sort of the root cause, her motivations are the secrets
[12:43]we keep from the people we love to protect them. So you probably have somebody in your life who
[12:48]like, you know something about that person and they might wail against you. They might, you know,
[12:52]be mean or say something. And you know, you could reveal this one thing and it would just shut
[12:55]them up, but you would never do that because you love them so much. So that's one character.
[12:59]Oh, and it's all based on an island off the coast of Charleston. And you'll also head back to
[13:04]Charleston because I'm a Charleston writer at least for now. I love it. And then the second
[13:10]character, Rhett, she is in the 10th year of her marriage. And I think I'm around that too.
[13:16]And I just think it's a fascinating time of, you know, you're growing, you love each other,
[13:22]but you're also like, oh, you know, you're kind of like out of the monkey room with the babies.
[13:26]And so you're sort of like this, like, oh, I find other men attractive. Like, what is that?
[13:33]You know, I, I'm really interested in sexuality and as it changes. So I've been really
[13:39]mining that and it's been a lot of fun. And I don't know. I like to read about sex and write
[13:43]about sex. So there you go. The third is a character who worked really hard her whole life and had
[13:49]this, what she thought was an amazing job, but she just comes to this kind of epiphany. And she's
[13:53]like, I hate it. I got to get out of here. And I think that speaks to a ton of people who just
[13:58]sort of wake up and like, I thought I had it all and it really feels like nothing. And the final
[14:03]character is a citadel cadet just because they're just such a fascinating population that I was just
[14:09]pretty much studying during my years there. And I taught public speaking. And that was such a
[14:15]fun thing to teach because I would get to hear their stories. So I like to think I knew that population
[14:21]better than somebody, a tenured professor who's been there for decades because, you know,
[14:25]that person was always talking at the front of the auditorium was supposed to me listening.
[14:29]So yeah, so it's a mix of all that. You get to be in Charleston. I think it's just that
[14:33]kind of racing through all this beautiful low country land. You get to go downtown to Rainbow
[14:38]Row and then definitely on the campus on this of this military college, which is just like wild
[14:42]place. So yeah, oh my gosh. You know, I love how you just described the characters not by what
[14:49]they look like or their ages or whatever, but by the thing about them that everyone can relate
[14:54]to, like that's really that's really smart. People don't do that. Oh, thanks. That was my first pitch.
[14:59]I'm glad it's to be approved. It's to be approved for sure. It makes me want to change
[15:05]like how I think good, how I describe things also. I mean, because of course, because then you
[15:09]just immediately relate, you know, anyway, cool. By the way, I'm coming to Charleston at some point
[15:14]to promote my memoir to the Charleston Society library. So oh my gosh. Yes. Well, you know,
[15:20]we're so intertwined here and we're either related or, you know, whatever. The director was my
[15:26]teacher in seventh grade. I grew up with her son. It's no way. I'm like, huh, I'll get a ticket.
[15:30]Okay. Awesome. Maybe you can be involved. It would be really fun. Okay. That would be fair.
[15:36]I'll be there. Yes. You just tell me when I will be happy to do whatever I could do. Awesome.
[15:41]We're planning it now. So yeah, I'll loop you in. We'll have to get your email.
[15:45]Anyway, we'll stick around. I also love how you just described yourself as like going through
[15:53]the back door to get anything done. That's such a funny thing to say. I mean, it's such a self-aware,
[15:58]like interesting thing to say because it's so hard to get through the front door to do anything,
[16:02]especially in publishing. I mean, like, it seems like the front doors are locked shut,
[16:06]so how will anybody get in? I feel like the same way in a way. Like, I wasn't like, there was no red
[16:12]carpet. Right. Yeah. That's something I've definitely learned to do because I mean, I got to teach
[16:20]undergrad. I couldn't teach masters. I mean, graduates, but you know, a lot of people have
[16:24]their PhD and stuff and all I had was an MBA, but you can do that, right? And that's because I
[16:29]knew somebody and I had to, you know, try for that particular position and interview and do all that
[16:34]stuff. But and then same thing with this getting my book deal. Yeah, I just it's a hustle and I
[16:40]think it's so when I was working at the Citadel, there I was really close with the director of
[16:45]career services. And a lot of times, I'm like, oh my God, we need somebody to talk to all the juniors
[16:50]of second battalion about how to get a job. Can you, can you cover? And because I taught public speaking,
[16:55]I'm like, yeah, sure, you know, I got it. I can cover for you. And so I helped out with this particular
[16:59]lecture and it basically said, whatever you want, you do two things. One is you work, you work so
[17:06]hard to improve the skills and the direction that you want. So for me, that would be writing
[17:10]just right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right. And then two, you network. And
[17:15]that's what I did. And I think that's really kind of how you can get the things you want.
[17:20]I have an MBA too. Do you think it's helped you in your writing career? Like what, what,
[17:24]what pieces of it have helped? I've read your bio. You have a much fancier MBA than I
[17:30]just asked you the program in general. Oh, God. I mean, I truly don't know if, I mean, I don't
[17:37]mean to this instead of it all. But I mean, you had it Harvard, right? It doesn't matter.
[17:41]Okay, you know, you teach management and all the things and finance accounting and marketing
[17:46]and like all this stuff. Like I remember when I was at school, somebody raised their hand and said,
[17:51]you know, if you're an author, you're still selling your product, but your product is words,
[17:55]but you're, you're manufacturing your own product. But then you still have to market it,
[17:59]right, anything else. It could be a can of Diet Coke or it could be, you know, an 800 word essay,
[18:04]but you have the same responsibility to get it out into the world. Doesn't matter what you are.
[18:10]You know, I completely, I completely agree with that. Our particular program, I don't know if
[18:15]it was like so holistic that it would, I don't know what, what I think really helped me was
[18:21]frankly, I was, I hit rock bottom when I was going through that divorce. And I know you've had
[18:26]a heartbreak too. And I had, I'm a really naturally buoyant person. I'd never been impressed
[18:32]before. I was 28. I even went roller skating on a date to a press a guy and I broke both my arms.
[18:38]I know. And with my mother, she had to bathe me, which is like different than bathing a child.
[18:44]And adult human has like far more hormones and smells and like you just don't realize how much
[18:48]you scrub yourself until your mom has to baby. It was so rough. So it was such a hard time in my
[18:54]life. And I had to crawl myself out of that hole. And it was just, I think that was like a big
[19:00]lesson. And so kind of ever since I've just been like, I haven't stopped, like I got out of the
[19:04]hole, but I'm just continuing to move forward. And I'm just really grateful that I never want to do
[19:10]it again. I feel like that has to like reach me to the next level of awareness. Like it was so
[19:15]hard. But I'm really, I'm really glad for that experience. A heartache that I felt that is something
[19:21]I can always tap into when I'm writing a scene. I'm trying to chain all these different characters.
[19:26]But I think it was more just the life experience of being knocked down flat.
[19:35]That I shouldn't be thankful for that. Yeah. How long had you been married?
[19:39]Only like a couple years, but he was my college boyfriend and he was a sweetheart.
[19:44]He was a total gentleman. And he's not tripped in the book. Because if he was tripped in the book,
[19:51]no one would understand why she didn't love the guy. I was just at this point in my life that
[19:57]was like this peak of like air against.
[20:00]naivete and I just thought I was better.
[20:02]And then I get out in the real world
[20:05]and I get back on the dating scene and I'm like,
[20:07]oh my God, women are treated like this?
[20:10]Like I just had no idea.
[20:12]I was so protected and loved by him
[20:14]and it was shocking.
[20:16]And so that brings in that kind of me too moment experience
[20:21]within my novel.
[20:22]And that also really got me thinking about,
[20:24]at the time, you know, I'm trying to date,
[20:26]I'm trying to recover from all this.
[20:28]And then with my grandmother,
[20:29]and I see her at the end of her life
[20:31]at the end of this very long marriage
[20:33]with, you know, as much as we make progress
[20:36]in the world, like in the board rooms,
[20:39]like as soon as that bedroom door shuts,
[20:41]we're just, it feels like, at least for me,
[20:43]I was tipped back into that power dynamic
[20:48]where the man was on top and I wasn't sure.
[20:50]And is this right?
[20:51]Is this what we do?
[20:52]I don't know.
[20:54]And I think as a collective group,
[20:56]I think we're teaching our daughters
[20:58]to trust our guts better.
[21:01]But I was kind of amazed that somebody who was nearly 30,
[21:04]I just did, I was just blindsided.
[21:08]Well, I think part of the problem
[21:09]is that people don't talk.
[21:11]Like, the whole prevailing wisdom
[21:13]is what stays behind closed.
[21:14]What happens behind closed doors,
[21:15]stays behind closed doors.
[21:16]I just literally just wrote this essay two days ago.
[21:19]Because I feel like finally there is emerging,
[21:22]this is New genre of like reality marriage lit.
[21:25]Like I think we are finally creaking open this
[21:28]doors, which will help everyone, right?
[21:31]Because you go through and you have all this input
[21:33]and then all of a sudden it's like you're in your marriage
[21:36]and nobody talks about it.
[21:38]And you're like, is this normal?
[21:39]Is this not normal?
[21:40]Is this how I'm supposed to feel?
[21:41]Is this not how I'm supposed to feel?
[21:43]Like what are the rules here?
[21:45]And like nobody talks about it.
[21:47]So I feel like everybody has to start talking
[21:50]about it more just enough to help people,
[21:54]especially because people are so open, right?
[21:58]Like we're in a culture where we're so open about everything.
[22:00]And then it's like, right?
[22:02]And then you feel like, well, what are people not talking about?
[22:05]What are we protecting?
[22:07]Like what's going on?
[22:08]I've heard kind of people looking at Americans
[22:10]or like we trace traips around in thongs,
[22:13]but we're actually quite puritanical.
[22:15]You know, it's just funny.
[22:18]And I get that.
[22:19]And that's why, I guess I just was so interested
[22:22]in exploring this particular, kind of the main dynamic
[22:26]is that Rhett and her husband.
[22:28]And I've been listening to a lot of Esther Peral
[22:30]and just like moving a lot of that kind of stuff.
[22:32]And I'm just, you know, it's fascinating to me,
[22:35]which makes it an absolute blast to write about.
[22:38]And it's a good thing my husband is like a strong man
[22:41]because he's like, what is she doing all day?
[22:44]What is the name of your next book, the name?
[22:53]I don't know because, all right, so my other book,
[22:56]I was originally titling it zinnias
[22:58]because of, you know, the flowers are quite throughout
[23:01]the novel.
[23:02]And then I got my New York editor who I love,
[23:05]but she kind of just, you know, she tells it to you
[23:07]like it is.
[23:08]She's like zinnias, sounds like a guarding book.
[23:10]Can't be that.
[23:11]And so we just went through this whole list.
[23:13]It took forever.
[23:14]And at one point, I threatened to tell her,
[23:16]look, if you don't pick one of these titles,
[23:17]I've given you, I'm gonna call it South of broad broads.
[23:20]And if you know South of the broad, anyway.
[23:23]So we came up with this title, which I think is great.
[23:25]But at this point, I'm like, I don't really know.
[23:28]I kind of want to call it the secrets
[23:30]because there's this place that's in question
[23:35]that these people go to, that the family is aware,
[23:39]but they're not sure who the land belongs to
[23:41]and what those people are doing there.
[23:43]And I think it's kind of a cool title.
[23:45]I also know there's a book called The Secret
[23:47]and is that confusing?
[23:48]And does it say enough about what the book is?
[23:51]I don't know if it's paired with like a low-country marsh.
[23:54]What covers are tricky?
[23:56]Because also with this one,
[23:58]they, when they first gave me, I love this cover.
[24:01]It's really fun, isn't it?
[24:03]Yeah.
[24:04]Both cover designs.
[24:04]It was the same sort of stuff you put
[24:06]on your typical betread, which I was really nervous about
[24:09]because I'm like, you have to show some edge.
[24:12]Otherwise, if someone's gonna open this book
[24:14]and they're gonna see some grit in here
[24:16]and they're not gonna like it because it wasn't as advertised.
[24:19]It's like we have to show something
[24:21]other than just a sunset, you know?
[24:23]So anyway, I feel like this,
[24:24]at least it matches the tone really well.
[24:27]It's true.
[24:28]I love it.
[24:29]Very cool, particularly the high tops.
[24:32]The high tops are the best, isn't it?
[24:33]Thank you.
[24:35]Can you imagine being like the,
[24:36]I mean, I'm sure this didn't actually happen.
[24:38]I'm sure it's like photoshopped or something.
[24:39]But have fun with it.
[24:40]Oh, it was originally a blonde girl cheerleader.
[24:44]And then that looked at the hair and then I,
[24:46]and then I made them put on the truck tailors
[24:48]but I had them remove the label
[24:50]because otherwise it just looked like
[24:52]that she would have been a part of the book
[24:54]and it wasn't.
[24:55]So I didn't want to have too much attention.
[24:57]Anyway.
[24:58]Wow.
[24:59]Very cool.
[25:00]You kind of got to know in the publishing world
[25:01]like what you can push on
[25:02]and what you don't want to push on.
[25:04]And so that was one of the things
[25:06]was like, I'm just gonna be a little pushy here.
[25:08]And I'm glad I was.
[25:09]I was so pushy about my cover for my memoir.
[25:11]We went through so many rounds.
[25:12]I was literally emailing my editor.
[25:14]I was like, you're never gonna work with me again
[25:15]because I was so hard.
[25:17]I was like, it just can't look like this.
[25:18]If it looks like this, like this is not representative
[25:20]and this is not what that is.
[25:21]I didn't.
[25:22]Yeah.
[25:23]Anyway.
[25:24]Yeah.
[25:25]I do think covers are super important, unfortunately.
[25:27]Mm-hmm.
[25:28]Books by the camera, but you know,
[25:29]nobody had that.
[25:30]Yeah.
[25:31]Yeah.
[25:32]Anyway.
[25:33]Well, I love, I love this one.
[25:34]I think it's so cute.
[25:35]Oh, thank you.
[25:36]And I noticed how the watch just kind of turns
[25:39]so you think about the time moms don't have time to
[25:41]or did you do that on purpose?
[25:42]Literally this wasn't the cover.
[25:44]This is, this was going on in my kitchen
[25:47]and my husband took this picture.
[25:48]What?
[25:49]Really?
[25:50]Yeah, it was not posed.
[25:51]Like I was freaking out during the pandemic
[25:53]and he was like standing in the kitchen with me
[25:55]and just took that picture.
[25:56]We were trying to bake.
[25:56]I'm so impressed because I was like also,
[25:58]I like how she has her kids,
[25:59]but she doesn't, I guess she did choose not to show
[26:01]their faces.
[26:02]Well, like the one, he took a few in a row
[26:04]and the other one you can see their faces.
[26:06]You know, but he happened to take a bunch.
[26:09]That is cool.
[26:10]Yeah.
[26:11]The other, my other cover was posed the first time,
[26:13]but this one was just like a bad moment.
[26:15]But anyway, okay, last question,
[26:16]advice for aspiring authors.
[26:18]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[26:19]No, tons, but I'll just stick with,
[26:22]you just got to put your button to share
[26:23]and you just have to write.
[26:24]And you're going to have a nagging little voice saying,
[26:28]is this good enough?
[26:29]Who's going to read this?
[26:30]And there's zero point in paying attention to that
[26:33]because it doesn't move you forward.
[26:34]It does not make you a better writer.
[26:36]The only thing that's going to make you a better writer
[26:38]is to just keep writing.
[26:40]So give yourself goals.
[26:41]For me, it was a thousand words a day.
[26:44]And if I didn't hit 5,000 by Friday,
[26:46]I'd work on the weekend, you treat it as a job.
[26:49]And just be easy on yourself
[26:51]when it comes to that little voice.
[26:53]But also, it's hard work.
[26:56]And if you want to get your foot in that door,
[26:58]the back door or the front door,
[26:59]like you have to have a completed manuscript
[27:01]that you've really given it your whole heart.
[27:05]Amazing, I love it.
[27:06]Thank you.
[27:07]This has been so fun.
[27:08]I've learned how to do a reel, I guess
[27:10]that was before we started filming.
[27:12]I've learned how to do time-lapse photography,
[27:14]more about cover photoshopping.
[27:16]I mean, this is great.
[27:17]Thank you.
[27:19]Yeah, well, let me know when you come to Charleston.
[27:20]I'd love to show you around.
[27:21]I can take you into some of these homes
[27:23]and I would get a little bit to work.
[27:25]Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[27:26]So much childhood home.
[27:27]It's really cool.
[27:28]Yeah, it's all just, you know,
[27:30]within walking distance of that library society,
[27:32]it's a beautiful space.
[27:34]So I can't wait.
[27:35]Oh, yeah, you're going to have a blast.
[27:37]Yeah.
[27:37]All right, I will definitely be in touch about that.
[27:39]Wonderful.
[27:40]Well, thank you again so much for having me.
[27:42]I know you've got so much going on.
[27:44]And you interview the coolest people.
[27:45]I was like, she interviewed Leanne Moriarty.
[27:48]I'm just going to interview me.
[27:49]Yeah, I have all her books here.
[27:51]I just went to like, you know, anywhere.
[27:53]Yeah, she's on my huge panel.
[27:55]Oh, yeah, she's awesome.
[27:56]That was about when I was well.
[27:58]Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
[28:00]All right.
[28:01]Okay, thank you so much.
[28:01]Thank you so much.
[28:02]Bye bye.
[28:03]Bye.
[28:05]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[28:07]Don't have time to read books.
[28:09]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zebioans
[28:12]and at Moms, don't have time to read books.
[28:14]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[28:16]And sign up for my virtual book club
[28:18]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[28:21]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[28:23]for the Sound Editing.
[28:24]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[28:26]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.