Zibby Owens and Holly Hatam, PRINCESS CHARMING
[0:01]Hi, this is Vivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast.
[0:05]Moms don't have time to read books.
[0:07]And speaking of books, I have two of my own books coming out this spring and summer.
[0:12]Princess Charming is a picture book, which debuts on April 19th, and bookends, a memoir
[0:18]of love, loss, and literature.
[0:20]Comes out on July 1st, and it is truly a labor of love.
[0:24]I hope you'll pre-order, order, and join me on tour as I go across the country.
[0:28]You can find out more at ziviowens.com or bookendsmemoir.com, and you can follow me
[0:35]on Instagram at ziviowens, because I always post about everything.
[0:38]Enjoy the show.
[0:41]Hey everyone, I need your help.
[0:43]If you love this podcast, you will love my children's book.
[0:47]It's called Princess Charming, and I am really trying to drum up pre-order sales.
[0:51]You might not know this, but before a book comes out is actually a really important time
[0:55]for the whole book's trajectory.
[0:58]Please pre-order Princess Charming, which comes out April 19th today.
[1:03]Just stop what you're doing and go do that, please.
[1:05]When it arrives on April 19th, you can give it to a loved one in your life, a niece,
[1:10]a grandchild, a child, a student, a kid walking by on the street, anybody.
[1:16]But if you could do this, here is my offer.
[1:20]If you email me your receipt showing me that you bought the book online somewhere and pre-ordered it,
[1:26]email info at ziviowens.com.
[1:30]That's info at ziviowens.com, and I will pick 10 people to do a special giveaway
[1:36]project award to from my new bonfire merch store, which you should also check out,
[1:42]which is the ziviowens media bonfire store, where you can get all sorts of cool t-shirts and
[1:49]tote bags and author sayings and all sorts of great stuff.
[1:52]Or dice a 10 of you are going to get a special care package of your choice from the bonfire store.
[1:58]And I will pick at random from all of you who pre-ordered the book.
[2:02]So if that wasn't clear, go pre-order Princess Charming.
[2:06]Again, it's called Princess Charming. It's my debut picture book.
[2:10]It's really cute and great and it's illustrated by Holly Hadam.
[2:14]And then after you get the receipt, screenshot it or afford it to me at info at ziviowens.com
[2:21]and you will be entered to win one of 10 exciting care packages.
[2:26]So go off in order. Thank you so much. Bye.
[2:29]Today's episode is really near and dear to my heart because it is with me.
[2:36]Holly Hadam and I collaborated on Princess Charming, which comes out today.
[2:43]Stop what you're doing. Go buy it, please.
[2:46]Holly Hadam is the illustrator and I wrote the children's book.
[2:50]Thanks to Fortuitous meeting with Margaret Anastis, my editor, which author Karen Dukez,
[2:57]author of the last book party. She introduced us and it was amazing.
[3:01]You'll hear the whole story here. But Holly and I had never done an interview before.
[3:06]So I interviewed her but we basically talked to each other about our launch.
[3:10]And I appreciate so much the early support from so many of you for Princess Charming.
[3:15]And I hope you will all buy a copy for your families, for birthday party gifts,
[3:22]for your local schools and libraries. So even if you have a child, buy it for the kids classroom
[3:30]and I don't know. Okay, I'll stop begging. But it's really cute and you'll see me in various
[3:36]tour events and TV events and all sorts of good things to promote Princess Charming. So join me
[3:41]for this exciting ride as I'm a debut children's book author. So I'm not going to read my own
[3:46]bio because you know who I am basically. And if you don't know who I am, you can go to my website
[3:52]and figure it out at zibbowens.com. But I guess if you're dropping in from Mars and have never
[3:58]heard of me or heard of anything, obviously I host this podcast. I also host sex stock with
[4:03]Zibby and Tracy. I started Zibby Books, a publishing company with my co-founder Lee Newman.
[4:09]And we also have moms don't have time to write and moms don't have time to grieve
[4:13]and a bunch of other things like the Zibby Awards and all of that. And I have them
[4:17]where I'm coming out in July called bookends, a memoir of love loss and literature. And I
[4:22]edited two anthologies and that's good enough bio. I live in New York with my four kids and my
[4:26]adorable husband Kyle. Okay, Holly Hadam, who is the illustrator for Princess Charming,
[4:31]is obviously a children's book illustrator. She's also a greeting card designer and a textile
[4:36]engineer. She is the number one New York Times best-selling illustrator of dear girl and
[4:42]dear boy. Her picture books have been translated into over 10 languages and have sold over
[4:48]1 million copies worldwide. Some of her other books include hair twins, Jack Natchaki and
[4:54]Maxine the Maker. So, run don't walk, please consider getting a copy of Princess Charming today.
[5:01]And I hope you enjoy my conversation with Holly. I know I should it.
[5:04]Welcome Holly. Thank you for coming on mom's no child read books. We are basically interviewing
[5:09]each other now for our collaborative project Princess Charming written by me and illustrated by you.
[5:17]So excited to thank you. I'm so excited to. It's so cute. listeners can't feel it, but this
[5:23]children's book Princess Charming has glitter sort of all over the stars and the little castle
[5:29]in the background in Princess Charming's outfit and headband. It's just the cutest. So, Holly,
[5:35]you did such a phenomenal job with these illustrations. I should maybe say for people listening who
[5:42]don't know what Princess Charming is about, but it's about a girl named Princess Charming who
[5:48]can't seem to find her thing and she keeps trying everything and not doing a good enough job and
[5:53]wondering what to do. And then this famous movie star Stella Sparkle comes to visit the palace
[5:58]and she realizes through something that happens that maybe what she's really good at is not giving
[6:05]up in perseverance and then there is a little twist at the end about who Princess Charming really
[6:10]is and that is the story. Okay, so now you go Holly. I had so much fun with this because she reminded me
[6:20]a lot of my little boy where he like every day he's trying something new and being someone new.
[6:27]So it was just fun and we always try to teach him that failing is not really failing because he has
[6:32]such a hard time with that. He thinks it's like the worst thing in the world and he won't try
[6:37]anything unless he knows he's going to be good at it. So this book was amazing to be part of.
[6:43]Yeah, this sort of inspired by one of my kids also. I mean, it's hard to be a kid and just like
[6:49]keep trying things and wanting so badly. I feel like there's all this pressure to have a thing when
[6:55]you're really, really young and it's like, you know what? I just found my thing. I'm 45 years old.
[7:01]Because it doesn't happen right away. You know, I mean, yeah, like I didn't become a
[7:07]children's book illustrate. It feels like seven years now. I don't feel like that. It's that long.
[7:12]I kept changing and changing and pivoting for so many years when I graduated.
[7:18]Wait, how did you become an illustrator for a children's book?
[7:20]It's what I've always wanted to do, but I've never found a courage to do it. And I went to school
[7:27]for graphic design because I didn't think I was good enough to apply to illustration. And
[7:31]my teacher told me I was strong in graphic design. So I followed that route and I hated it.
[7:36]I got two jobs out of school. I hated it. And then I kept freelancing and I started my own company
[7:43]doing wedding invitations for a while, hated every minute of it. And then I got pregnant and I said,
[7:48]okay, if I don't do it now, I'm never going to do it. That was in 2013. So that's, you know,
[7:57]I just got scared that I would never do it. So I just did it. And I think my son for that
[8:01]because being pregnant with him pushed me to finally do it. Awesome. Well, your son is now motivating
[8:07]this entire project. So yeah, leave it on your with us. I love it. Well, there is that, you know,
[8:12]it's the opposite when you're a child. It feels like there is an endless amount of time.
[8:17]And an endless amount of things to experiment with and be good at or just to enjoy. I mean,
[8:24]it's really crazy when you think about it that you're born deep down with all of these
[8:28]tools and tricks and and skills. And you don't even know where they're going to come out. I mean,
[8:34]it's crazy. I miss that. I miss watching my son every day. He's like, well, today,
[8:40]I'm going to be a training conductor. I'm like, well, what happened to an astronaut? And he's
[8:44]just says, well, I can do both. And I just love that. I wish we still have that mentality.
[8:49]Totally. Yes. It's so true. I also feel like all this pressure to specialize in a sport really early,
[8:55]really backfires. You know, I feel like I was an anomaly among the moms at my school a little bit
[9:03]because my son kept trying different sports. And there's a lot of their sons knew early on that
[9:08]they were going to be soccer players. And you know, it was a whole thing and they were in the
[9:11]travel soccer and like, first grade. And I'm like, how can I already be so behind? I've already ruined
[9:16]his life. You know, like, that's how I felt like, oh, well, so much for that. I guess I'll try
[9:22]a different sport. Yeah. But really, you know, and I kept saying to people like, I played lacrosse
[9:28]for a long time. I was pretty good. I didn't start playing across to high school. And everyone
[9:32]is saying, well, you know, that's not the way it is anymore. I'm like, are you sure? Are you sure?
[9:37]Are you? I feel like it's, it's not the kid that really wants to start early. It's the parents
[9:42]that feel they should start them early. Well, I mean, I love it. We've never pushed our son to play a
[9:49]sport. Like, he just, he likes it, but he doesn't show such a deep interest for it. And I'm,
[9:55]I see the value of working in a team, but I don't ever push him to do
[10:00]who's something that he doesn't love to do.
[10:02]Yeah.
[10:03]I mean, and I don't mean to say anything about these moms.
[10:05]I mean, they're a good friend of mine.
[10:07]Still, you know, it's just that they seem so clear.
[10:11]And this, but the kids loved it too,
[10:13]but now none of those kids play soccer.
[10:15]And I don't know, my son's finally figured out
[10:17]what he likes, but he's, you know, five seven or something.
[10:19]You know, I mean, it's like, he's old now.
[10:22]So it's almost 15.
[10:23]Yeah, it's cute.
[10:25]But anyway, back to Prince's charming.
[10:26]I think that she is falling victim to that pressure
[10:30]a little bit of, well, how come I'm not that good?
[10:33]And in truth, we are not all good.
[10:36]And all sorts of things.
[10:37]Like I am good in my couple of things that I'm good at.
[10:39]But like, if you ask me to park a car,
[10:41]I will probably crash it.
[10:42]Like nine times out of 10, I hit something.
[10:45]I'm like, so grateful for those beeps, right?
[10:48]Like we all have our areas of strength, right?
[10:51]Like what are you not good at?
[10:52]Same as you, I didn't get my driver's license
[10:55]so I was 38.
[10:56]Oh my gosh.
[10:57]So I was terrified of it.
[10:59]And it's been four years now since I've had it.
[11:02]And I still have not peril parked or back into a space
[11:06]since I took my test.
[11:08]So it looked like I hate, I hate it.
[11:11]Just, and I hate math.
[11:13]I'm really, really horrible at math.
[11:16]Like really, it's bad how bad I am.
[11:21]Well, but yeah, with your illustration,
[11:23]I mean, it's all about spatial design.
[11:25]I mean, look at how you're doing that.
[11:26]So it's not that you're, you're devoid
[11:28]of that skill set, right?
[11:30]You're figuring out what fits where and all of that
[11:32]can be perceived as math, right?
[11:34]All the spatial relations and sort of math.
[11:37]I think math and Jason created math.
[11:39]Creative math.
[11:42]Yeah, it's so true.
[11:43]Well, I don't know.
[11:45]I feel like you did such a cool job
[11:47]because not only did you illustrate Princess driving
[11:49]to be the adorable girl that she is,
[11:51]who I just, you know, I'm obsessed with.
[11:53]But you interspersed your drawings
[11:56]with some clip, cliparts probably the wrong term
[11:59]with some images that look like photographs.
[12:01]So I don't know even what that's called
[12:04]or why you chose that.
[12:05]So tell me both.
[12:07]Well, it's, it's my style.
[12:09]It's what I've been doing for almost seven years.
[12:12]I just think it adds such an element of surprise
[12:16]and I love the collage look of it.
[12:20]So yeah, collage.
[12:21]That's probably the word collage collage.
[12:25]So when you were doing this book, for instance,
[12:26]like there, I know there was a, a trunk
[12:29]with a, with a brown bear who's sort of hanging over the edge
[12:32]and other little, little things.
[12:35]How do you, did you just find that in your wanderings
[12:37]or like I have a few public domain photography sites
[12:43]that I use.
[12:44]So I know where to go.
[12:45]And if I can't find a picture that I have in my head
[12:50]that I'm envisioning, I'll go and take the photo myself.
[12:53]So I can use it.
[12:54]But that one I found on a, on a stock website.
[12:57]Did you, did you take any of the photos that are in spec?
[13:00]I think so.
[13:01]Like a lot of just subtle textures.
[13:04]Like this gold, the gold that you see everywhere
[13:07]and the furniture and in the window panes.
[13:10]I'll just take like a close up photo of something gold
[13:14]that I have on my house or the wall textures
[13:19]and I'll make my own.
[13:20]Sometimes if I can't find a pattern,
[13:23]I just make my own and make it create a brush
[13:26]out of it and Photoshop.
[13:29]That's so neat.
[13:30]Okay, so for instance, in the scene, here, I'm just holding it up.
[13:34]I love this like double spread here
[13:35]where double page spread with the, the castle dining room
[13:40]all set up and ready to, ready to go.
[13:42]So these little pillar looking things look like photos.
[13:47]And I guess maybe even the gold too.
[13:49]Right, like how did you do this page?
[13:51]That's so, the gold and the wall is actual photos.
[13:57]Like the gold, they took a picture of it
[13:59]and the wall, I made it look like plaster
[14:02]by taking a picture of watercolor paper.
[14:05]No way.
[14:06]Oh, that's so cool.
[14:08]See, I never would have known.
[14:10]All right, I need another, another secret.
[14:14]Let's see, I'm looking at the plaster.
[14:15]Okay, so this is a lot of watercolor paper.
[14:17]What about,
[14:19]wait, tell me about designing the earrings?
[14:20]For a sparkle?
[14:22]Yeah.
[14:23]I just, I am obsessed with moon and stars.
[14:26]And that's just how it came out of my brain.
[14:30]The hair clip, the hair clip is an actual photo.
[14:33]Graph of a clip.
[14:35]And so it was her necklace.
[14:36]Oh, wow, so neat.
[14:39]So Holly, not only have you done this book,
[14:42]but you've done a lot of other best selling books,
[14:45]including all of the ones which I couldn't believe you'd done
[14:48]when I was like, yes, yes, I would love for it
[14:50]to do this children's book, please.
[14:51]So hair twins with Rocky Mercandani,
[14:53]which I adored and Rocky was on this podcast
[14:56]and has been over here and everything.
[14:58]And then dear girl and dear boy with Amy Cross,
[15:01]Rose and Thal and Paris, Rose and Thal,
[15:04]and dear teacher and dear baby.
[15:07]Happy right now, cranky right now.
[15:09]Maxine and the greatest garden.
[15:12]You're amazing.
[15:12]And then there are like so many more,
[15:13]but unicorns, tree song, what matters,
[15:16]which is beautiful.
[15:17]So and mermaids are real,
[15:19]you not only illustrated but wrote and a couple others.
[15:22]So tell me about all of it.
[15:24]Like, tell me about the writing ones and illustrations.
[15:29]I've always wanted to be a writer.
[15:30]I actually got a scholarship to go study literature,
[15:35]but I declined it to go for graphic design.
[15:37]So I've always wanted to be a writer,
[15:39]but illustration is still my strong suit.
[15:43]Like, I have been writing a manuscript
[15:45]for a picture book for like four years.
[15:47]Still not right.
[15:49]So I wanted to ask you how long it took you to do,
[15:52]Princess Charming.
[15:53]Oh my gosh, what you should show Margaret.
[15:55]Yes, you have.
[15:57]Okay, Margaret's the editor for people listening.
[15:59]She's amazing.
[16:00]Margaret and Nastis is the editor,
[16:03]my editor for Princess Charming
[16:04]and she's the one who connected us.
[16:07]And I think you know this story, Holly,
[16:09]that Margaret came over for lunch
[16:11]because a friend recommended her and asked me
[16:13]if I would be interested in writing a children's book
[16:15]and I was like, yes, I would, thank you very much.
[16:17]And she came over for lunch and showed me a picture,
[16:20]not of this, Princess Charming,
[16:21]but I'm a totally different looking Princess Charming.
[16:23]And said, this is Princess Charming,
[16:25]if you were gonna write a book about her, what would it be?
[16:27]And I was like, she's like,
[16:28]do you wanna take a stab at that?
[16:30]And I was like, yeah, sure it would.
[16:32]So we went back to eating our lunch
[16:33]and then I looked up like two minutes later.
[16:34]I'm like, okay, here's what I would do.
[16:36]And I told her my idea,
[16:38]basically including like the ending,
[16:40]which I came up with actually in a cab,
[16:41]like a few minutes after lunch.
[16:43]And she was like, perfect, that's it, we'll do it.
[16:46]And I was like, really?
[16:47]Because I've, you know, at that point,
[16:49]I've been trying to sell a memoir for,
[16:52]I don't know, almost 20 years or something
[16:54]and like, sleeving over so many other projects
[16:56]and this one just sort of fell in my lap.
[16:58]So, yeah.
[16:59]So the idea came within a couple of hours.
[17:01]It came within a couple of minutes, really,
[17:03]because she, but I will say the one she showed me
[17:07]was Princess Charming looking a little bit messy
[17:10]and like disheveled with a sign that said tryouts at the top.
[17:15]And then there were all these other animals
[17:17]and she was the only little girl.
[17:18]Oh, interesting.
[17:20]Yeah, so I was imagining her sort of failing at the tryouts,
[17:23]which has had this whole thing.
[17:25]Oh, that's so cool.
[17:26]I didn't know how the story came out.
[17:28]Yes, that's what happened.
[17:30]And then of course, Margaret is so awesome.
[17:32]I brought my laptop into the Penguin Random House offices
[17:35]and surrounded by 18 million bucks
[17:37]and just thought it was like the Disney world of the literary universe.
[17:43]And I just, you know, we kind of like polished the text and did it.
[17:46]And she's like, OK, well, I feel like this
[17:48]is enough for you to go on, right?
[17:49]You can just like take this and finish it at home.
[17:52]And I was like, why don't we just finish it?
[17:53]This will take like 10 minutes.
[17:55]You know, I just remember how I approached most things.
[17:58]Like if I can do it now, I would rather that
[18:00]than wait because by then other things will come up.
[18:03]So she like laughed and she's like, OK, so we just like,
[18:06]what'd you do?
[18:07]And of course, there was some polishing later.
[18:08]But my first attempt.
[18:09]Oh, that's amazing.
[18:10]Yeah.
[18:12]My first attempts on my own apparently were for much older kids.
[18:16]But I'm like, oh, they'll get my sense of humor.
[18:18]And no, not when they're three things.
[18:22]Yeah.
[18:23]And then my kids who now, my little guys are seven and almost nine,
[18:27]but still seven and eight.
[18:29]And they're very offended that this book is built for three
[18:32]to six years.
[18:32]So they're like, what is wrong for us?
[18:34]And I'm like, well, it's just for three to six years.
[18:37]So yeah.
[18:38]And of course, picture books can extend to in your much older.
[18:41]But it is really exciting, especially both of us
[18:44]having kids to have a picture, but come out
[18:47]when we have kids who can still enjoy it.
[18:48]Really?
[18:49]Yeah.
[18:50]It's very special.
[18:51]No, I'm so my son's also almost nine.
[18:55]And I'm surprised that he's still once in a while
[18:57]picks up a picture book.
[18:59]I'm going to be so sad when that is fully over.
[19:01]No, my daughter, as I said, came home sick.
[19:03]And she really wanted to read this book.
[19:06]And I was like, well, if she's going to be in bed all day,
[19:07]I'll just get it in this book on the way home.
[19:09]And there are all these other children's books.
[19:11]And she's like, why still love children's books?
[19:13]So yeah.
[19:15]Of course, then as soon as we got home, she's like, yeah,
[19:17]I'm going to just watch the iPad.
[19:18]And I was like, we just got all the books.
[19:20]Remember books?
[19:21]She's like, well, how long do I have to read?
[19:23]Oh, isn't this book inspired by her?
[19:26]No, it's just charming.
[19:27]Different my older daughter, actually.
[19:30]Yeah.
[19:30]Does she think that's cool?
[19:33]Really?
[19:33]Yes.
[19:34]She thinks it's amazingly cool.
[19:36]And then there was a whole fight
[19:38]because I dedicated it to her, my older daughter.
[19:40]And not, yeah.
[19:42]So now I have promised each kid that I will dedicate.
[19:47]I had a picture book to them, which is really over-promising here.
[19:50]I mean, I know there's no one who has to keep writing them.
[19:54]I know one more is guaranteed, but I don't know if I can eat
[19:57]out another two after that from Margot.
[20:00]Anyway, but it sure was fun and it's very exciting to join through the canon of all my favorite children's book authors and illustrators and and all that so.
[20:12]Oh, it's a fun we're fun group everyone's so welcoming and the children's book publishing.
[20:20]Amazing, well you've been through this before many many times do you have advice for me like what should I expect this book is now coming out it's April 19th as people are listening to this.
[20:31]So by the way listeners, please if you only buy one book today make it this book support a local indie buy it anywhere.
[20:43]And give princess charming to little loved one in your life or donate it to a local library or a little free library or shelter.
[20:51]I'm already done.
[20:52]Awesome.
[20:53]I am going to give it to all my schools, my kids schools, doctors offices give it to your pediatrician I'm going to fit in the pediatrician office so it will be everywhere.
[21:03]It will be everywhere.
[21:05]No seriously do you have any advice now that this is kicking off.
[21:09]But my advice would be to really just celebrate it especially the day that it comes out I never do this and I always tell myself I will is to really just take the day to celebrate that day that it's coming out treat it as a like the book birthday and just soak it in.
[21:26]I usually just I love it but I don't take the time to soak it all in go so quickly so that would be my advice.
[21:36]That's good advice for life in general.
[21:38]You know just taking time.
[21:40]Give me good moments.
[21:42]Awesome.
[21:43]Well I have to say Holly it's been so fun collaborating with you and also for people listening you and I tonight on April 19th at seven will be doing a virtual event with book
[21:54]Hampton and RJ Julia and also with others Karen Parsons and Kerry Docherty.
[21:59]So the four of us will have a great live conversation.
[22:03]So anybody around the country if you can tune into that go to bookhampton dot com or our julia and sign up and come watch us at seven and thanks for listening.
[22:14]And if you haven't already buy some princess charming's for anybody in your life.
[22:20]Yes please.
[22:21]Yes there is.
[22:22]All right.
[22:23]Well thanks Holly.
[22:24]I'm so excited to do this with you.
[22:25]Thank you.
[22:26]Me too.
[22:27]Okay.
[22:28]All right.
[22:29]Bye bye.
[22:30]Bye.
[22:31]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books.
[22:35]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books.
[22:40]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom every other week.
[22:47]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact texture sound for the sound editing.
[22:51]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.