Susan Rigetti, COVER STORY: A Novel
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[2:30]Susan Regetti is the author of Cover Story and Novel.
[2:33]Susan is an author, screenwriter, and the former technology op editor at the New York Times.
[2:38]She has been named Person of the Year by Time, The Financial Times, and the Webby Awards,
[2:42]and has appeared on Fortune's 40 under 40 list.
[2:45]Vanity Fair's new establishment list, Marie Claire's new guard list, the Bloomberg 50,
[2:49]the Upstart 50, the Recode 100, and more.
[2:52]She is the author of a book on computer programming that has been implemented by companies
[2:56]across Silicon Valley and the author of the critically acclaimed memoir Whistle Blower.
[3:02]Listen to her life story as we talk on this podcast about Cover Story.
[3:05]All right.
[3:06]Welcome, Susan.
[3:07]Thanks so much for coming on mom.
[3:08]I don't have time to read books to discuss Cover Story and Novel.
[3:12]I'm so glad to be here.
[3:13]Oh my gosh.
[3:14]I'm so excited.
[3:15]Thank you for having me.
[3:16]And by the way, speaking of unexpected things in your book, I did not even notice this
[3:20]was the plaza in the sunglasses.
[3:22]And I looked at this in a hundred times without noticing, right?
[3:26]It's so cool.
[3:27]The detail.
[3:28]The detail.
[3:29]I'm covering just amazing.
[3:30]Oh my gosh.
[3:31]I'm just...
[3:32]Okay.
[3:33]I'm noticing the faces.
[3:34]I know.
[3:35]Now the other faces too.
[3:36]It's like...
[3:37]Okay.
[3:38]Yes, I am not the most visual of.
[3:39]Here's the day.
[3:40]I was like, it just has my hands in the screen.
[3:42]I was like, did you put something over the phone so like, you can't see the screen
[3:45]and he's like, I did that two weeks ago.
[3:47]I was like, okay.
[3:48]Anyway, I don't notice visual things as much sometimes.
[3:52]But anyway, off of me, this book was so great.
[3:55]I got totally sucked into all of it.
[3:57]I love how you incorporated.
[3:59]This is like the book for like the attention deficit generation because it makes all sorts
[4:04]of different formats from like FBI briefs, emails, it's just your constantly like stimulated
[4:11]with a different format.
[4:13]So talk to me about, tell listeners what it's about and I want to hear about how you
[4:18]the way in which you told the story.
[4:20]Oh gosh.
[4:21]We were to start.
[4:23]So I was working at the New York Times and I was waiting to write the perfect novel.
[4:30]Like, I've written novels in the past and none of them are like, you know, ones that
[4:35]I really wanted other people to read.
[4:37]They were just terrible.
[4:38]And so I was like, okay, when I get the right idea and the right one comes to me, like
[4:42]I'm going to write that one.
[4:43]So I was working at the Times and I was reading and obsessed with all the different
[4:48]like grifters and con artists.
[4:50]I mean, there's so many, especially in the past few years we've seen.
[4:53]And I was just totally fascinated and I was reading like everything I could about them
[4:58]and just like going down all these internet rabbit holes about like, oh, look at this person
[5:02]and this person's Instagram and like, oh my gosh, like look at this text message that
[5:07]they had sent and now it's like getting pulled into this article and I just thought it
[5:11]was just absolutely fascinating.
[5:13]And the thing that I noticed that was so fascinating was about my own reaction.
[5:18]I was creating this narrative in my head about like who these people were and creating
[5:24]this timeline that later on when I read more about them after we uncovered more, like
[5:30]it wasn't true, right?
[5:32]It was just like the pieces that I've been putting together and that really that realization
[5:36]really stuck with me.
[5:38]And I was like, oh, that's fascinating and I didn't think any more of it for a while.
[5:43]And then I was reading all these and the other thing that really struck out, like stuck
[5:47]out to me was, you know, they didn't really end the way I wanted to write like, you
[5:52]know, and the delving didn't escape from the police.
[5:56]And there's like all these different things where it was like, oh, it's real life.
[5:59]It's not, you know, a movie.
[6:01]So I got this idea for the ending before I came up with anything.
[6:07]I got the end idea for the ending and I was like, this is the scammers story I want
[6:13]to read.
[6:14]And so I was like, oh my gosh, I have to write it because it's going to be so fun.
[6:17]And then I remembered that realization that I'd had about like the way we create narratives
[6:21]in our heads when we're just reading like little bits of information and not having like
[6:26]the actual like what really happened.
[6:30]And I thought I wonder if I could write a novel and like take all the things I love about
[6:35]like all these like con artists and scammers and all the things that I love about like media
[6:40]and publishing and fashion and tech and just write something that's like funny.
[6:46]And that gets the reader to like create this narrative in their head that then, you know,
[6:51]at the very end, you can just like pull the rug out front of them and be like, oh, here's
[6:56]what really happens.
[6:58]And that was my goal.
[6:59]So tricky because I was like, I have to be so careful.
[7:03]So like make it work exactly right.
[7:06]It worked perfectly.
[7:07]Oh my gosh, I don't even want to share my emotions because I don't want to like give
[7:11]anything away at any point.
[7:13]But as I don't trick you, right?
[7:15]Amazing.
[7:16]I also, I interned at Vanity Fair when I was in college.
[7:20]So I feel like I totally related to this, you know, being in the closet and like the fashion
[7:24]closet and the beauty closet, I know what I was doing.
[7:27]Obviously your character is an L and not at Vanity Fair.
[7:30]But you know, whatever, same general thing.
[7:33]It's the same experience.
[7:35]Yeah, I didn't intern, but I talked to a lot of people who had either intern or worked
[7:40]with interns at various magazines and like the stories are pretty much like there's some
[7:45]people have like amazing experiences and it's all glorious and wonderful.
[7:48]And then there are a lot of people that are just kind of like, well, here's what really
[7:53]happened.
[7:55]And I just found that totally fascinating because I don't know, it's just so human, right?
[7:59]Like you can imagine like getting, you know, what you think is the job of your dreams
[8:03]and then you show up and you're like, oh, actually.
[8:08]Yeah.
[8:09]It's been a lot of time.
[8:11]And I have no interest in fashion, which anyone can tell by looking at me basically, but
[8:17]I was in the fashion department.
[8:19]No, but like, you know, I dress nicely like I'm, I'm put together, but I am not into fashion.
[8:24]Like I'm not cutting edge.
[8:26]I'm like a trend like if I just like what I wear today, I could have worn like 20 years
[8:31]ago.
[8:32]You know, like I'm not on trend.
[8:34]Unless it's so obvious, like I was watching the Grammys and they're like, doing nominations
[8:39]for the best new artists and they're like, this is who your mom's going to be listening
[8:41]to in five years.
[8:42]And I'm like, yes, that is totally me like with fashion, but anyway, I worked in the fashion
[8:47]department.
[8:48]I had to put all this, you don't probably don't even, you're like so much younger,
[8:51]there used to be little slides of everything, like not there.
[8:55]And you had, I had to put them in slide protectors where there were like 12 in a room.
[8:59]No.
[9:00]And like all like took so long.
[9:03]It was crazy.
[9:05]Anyway.
[9:06]Oh my God.
[9:07]I mean, there were some interesting parts, but you nailed it.
[9:08]I love that.
[9:09]I love that.
[9:10]Oh, I love that.
[9:11]It makes me so happy.
[9:12]There's always that tricky part of like when you're writing about something you don't
[9:15]know and you're doing a bunch of researchers like, is this kind of resonating?
[9:20]So I'm glad that I want to hear about your research at the plaza.
[9:24]Did you have to do some really, you know, tough work by, you know, checking out rooms at
[9:28]the plaza?
[9:29]I feel so sorry for you.
[9:30]Oh, yeah.
[9:31]I have to tell you the craziest thing.
[9:33]Okay.
[9:34]So I wrote this book like a few months, like the fall, it was like the fall before COVID.
[9:42]And I had said it in the next year, and then in 2020, and 2021.
[9:48]And then when the pandemic hit, I was like, oh my God, like I can't keep this the same
[9:54]at all.
[9:55]And I kind of just was like, okay, I can't write this book.
[9:57]I don't know what we're going to do.
[9:59]And I said no, no, no, no.
[10:00]I'm really way, it's too much fun.
[10:01]And so I went back and rewrote it
[10:04]so that it happened in like a few years earlier.
[10:08]But then I was, it was really tricky
[10:09]because I had all these things that I wanted to do.
[10:12]Like really, really, two were the L headquarters
[10:15]and like really, really two were the Palva.
[10:18]And like just getting all the rooms,
[10:20]like I had this whole plan where I was going to like reserve
[10:22]specific rooms and I was like set aside money
[10:25]and I was going to spend a ton of money
[10:26]and just like go and stay in these rooms
[10:27]and I really experienced them and none of that happened.
[10:30]And I was like, oh my God, good to do.
[10:32]So I talked to a whole bunch of people
[10:37]and read a whole bunch of like hunted down pictures
[10:40]of the L headquarters.
[10:41]So I could like get an idea
[10:42]for like what it was like.
[10:43]And so once I got that locked in,
[10:45]I was like, okay, now I have to get the closet locked in.
[10:48]So I watched a million videos, I read a million books
[10:52]and then there are these like 3D virtual tours
[10:56]of the hotel rooms on the website.
[10:59]And I spent so much time in there until I knew
[11:01]like every door knob, every electrical outlet, everything.
[11:05]And like just like burning them into my mind
[11:09]until I knew literally everything.
[11:11]And then I had to go and figure out like a pink
[11:13]which one of these would cat actually live in.
[11:16]And so that took a while and it also had to work
[11:19]because it needs to be an extra bedroom
[11:21]and they're needed to be this kind of like degree
[11:23]of separation, like physical separation bed.
[11:25]I found the perfect one.
[11:27]And then I spent months like literally months every day.
[11:31]I was spent so much time just staring at that
[11:33]and just like imagining them walking around
[11:35]and where would they go and what would they do
[11:37]and where would the wig collection go
[11:39]and where would they go and where would that go
[11:41]and like all these different things.
[11:43]And then once I felt like I really knew it,
[11:45]I went back and like rewrote basically the entire book
[11:48]because it had to be so physical
[11:50]and I wanted that hotel room to be a character, right?
[11:54]Like I wanted it to be its own character in the book.
[11:57]And so yeah, it was a lot of fun.
[11:59]Wow.
[12:01]Well, that sounds amazing.
[12:03]That's just awesome.
[12:05]I feel like it's, the plaza has gone through so many changes
[12:08]lately and I just feel like something has just so been lost forever.
[12:11]It's so sad as it lifelong yogurt for what it is now.
[12:14]I know, it's such a beautiful
[12:17]and there's this amazing book that I read called the plaza.
[12:21]It's like a history of the past.
[12:23]It was out of my past, Julie.
[12:24]Yeah. Oh my gosh.
[12:26]Really?
[12:27]Yes, yes.
[12:28]That book is incredible.
[12:29]Oh my gosh.
[12:30]I'll put you in touch.
[12:31]Really?
[12:32]Oh, amazing.
[12:33]I think I follow her on Twitter.
[12:34]I said to her copy the book because I was like,
[12:36]I owe you like, you have no idea what this is.
[12:38]That's so good.
[12:39]I'm not afraid of this book without you.
[12:41]Her book is just amazing and it made me like,
[12:45]I don't know, it made me fall in love with it all over again.
[12:48]You know, and just like a special place
[12:51]and I love New York anyway.
[12:53]I also really like the point of view of like,
[12:56]of the intern who is just seriously struggling with money.
[13:01]And she's thrust into this situation
[13:03]and the other interns are so,
[13:05]they don't even think about it.
[13:07]They don't even realize how,
[13:09]yeah, they didn't even realize their displays of wealth
[13:11]because they're just doing them
[13:12]like they don't even think twice,
[13:13]like where they're going to lunch every day
[13:15]and how they're, what they're wearing
[13:16]and all the things that she's trying so hard to mask
[13:20]and try to fit in.
[13:21]And she organizes over all of it, right?
[13:24]Because like it's all something that's like so out of her reach.
[13:28]And I don't know, that just felt really real to me
[13:30]as someone who like came from a background.
[13:32]It's like really growing up in poverty.
[13:34]And then you know, like I went into an Ivy League university
[13:37]and I remember just being like,
[13:38]everything was just, wait, how do I do this?
[13:42]What are they feel wearing?
[13:43]What's going on?
[13:44]And it was just so intense.
[13:45]And I remember everyone had this bag so ready.
[13:51]Like, you know, those like they're called,
[13:52]oh my gosh, it could not remember the brand,
[13:54]the life of me.
[13:55]But every, all the girls had this specific bag.
[14:00]And I was like, oh my gosh, it's like a nylon bag
[14:03]or something.
[14:04]And I was like, oh, this is gonna be amazing.
[14:06]I should totally get one.
[14:07]And I remember I walked up to a girl
[14:09]and I was like, it's like $20 or something,
[14:11]something like $20 bag can target.
[14:12]No, I walked up and I was like,
[14:14]what is this bag that you have?
[14:15]And she's like, how do you not know?
[14:17]And she like told me what it was and I was like $160.
[14:20]And I remember just being like,
[14:22]oh, oh, it's like in retrospect,
[14:25]it's like, of course, you still don't know
[14:26]no other expensive bag.
[14:27]But it's like those things where like you just
[14:29]agonize over it when you don't have that.
[14:31]And when it's like, you know, totally different world.
[14:33]And I remember I went back to my diaries
[14:36]from when I was like in college and in that time
[14:39]just to like, what was I saying?
[14:41]What was I thinking like,
[14:42]what was I writing to myself?
[14:44]And that's, I pulled a lot of those little pieces in
[14:46]because I felt like, you know,
[14:48]I wanted to be true to that like,
[14:50]that what it felt like to be there.
[14:52]And that was a lot of fun to write,
[14:54]but also kind of sad, like, oh, I feel for you Laura.
[14:58]Wait, tell me more about like,
[14:59]so where did you grow up and what was your life like?
[15:03]So I grew up in rural Arizona
[15:05]and I was home schooled by my mom.
[15:07]So I have six siblings.
[15:09]She home schooled all of us.
[15:10]And it was amazing.
[15:11]And wonderful.
[15:13]And then around when I was like,
[15:14]in what would have been like six grade,
[15:17]our family like, we were very poor
[15:19]but then it got a lot worse.
[15:21]And my mom had to go back to work
[15:23]and she put all my younger siblings in public school.
[15:27]But then me and my older sister for some reason,
[15:29]I don't understand, like,
[15:31]I've tried to figure it out, I don't know what happened.
[15:33]But we kind of got like lost in the system
[15:36]and the schools were just like, nope, they can't come.
[15:40]And I don't know if it was supposed
[15:41]because we're supposed to be taking like,
[15:42]standardized tests.
[15:44]I have no idea.
[15:45]But it was kind of just like, okay,
[15:47]I guess you two are gonna home school yourselves.
[15:49]And so that's what we did.
[15:50]So me and my older sister were just kind of like on our own.
[15:54]And what I ended up doing was working during the day.
[15:58]I worked as a stable hand.
[15:59]I worked at this place where it was like,
[16:01]it was called the Spider Farm
[16:02]where they're like freed like,
[16:04]black widow spiders and like take their bed amount
[16:07]and send them to researchers is quite an adventure
[16:10]worked as a nanny.
[16:11]And then at night I'd come home
[16:14]and I would just like teach myself things.
[16:16]So I would like, you know,
[16:18]teach me to myself math, English,
[16:20]basically anything that I could.
[16:22]And I had this realization that like,
[16:24]oh my God, like what is my life gonna be?
[16:27]Because I have no formal education.
[16:30]Like I don't know what I'm gonna do.
[16:32]I'm gonna be like in poverty forever.
[16:34]And then I was got even more scared
[16:36]because I looked at the girls my age
[16:39]and girls were a little bit older than I was
[16:41]who were in my community
[16:42]and like even the ones who went to school,
[16:44]like they had such a hard time getting jobs.
[16:47]They couldn't get into colleges.
[16:48]Like it was just so tough.
[16:50]And I was like,
[16:51]I'm gonna live in a small town in a trailer park
[16:53]for the rest of my life.
[16:55]And I just, I didn't know.
[16:58]I felt like I was capable of doing big things.
[17:01]And I, but I didn't know what I was gonna do.
[17:03]And so I was like, okay,
[17:06]I am going to get into college.
[17:07]That's gonna be like my step one.
[17:09]I'm gonna focus on that.
[17:10]So I would call it all these colleges.
[17:12]And I would say like,
[17:13]like I literally discovered a photo called Harvard.
[17:15]And I was like,
[17:16]no, I wanna go to Harvard.
[17:18]How would I get into Harvard?
[17:20]And I don't think they understood what I was asking,
[17:23]but I was literally just like, okay,
[17:24]what is the high school student need to do?
[17:26]Like what do they need to know about my,
[17:27]what does he know about that?
[17:28]It's like, you know,
[17:30]they would send over all these like, you know,
[17:33]students need to have this kind of like an SAT score
[17:36]or an ACT score.
[17:37]And like, this is my recommendation.
[17:39]And like this many years have been flushing all that.
[17:41]And then so I took this list that I got
[17:43]from talking to all of these colleges
[17:45]and then called a bunch of high schools.
[17:46]And I would literally just like,
[17:47]what are the textbooks that you use?
[17:48]Like what are your like English textbooks
[17:51]for like ninth grade, 10th grade,
[17:52]11th grade, 12th grade?
[17:53]Like literally went to that level
[17:54]because that was all I knew.
[17:57]That was like, I'm just gonna try to do it
[17:59]everyone else doesn't see if I can get there.
[18:01]And then I had to take, you know, standardized tests.
[18:03]I didn't even, I have no idea
[18:06]like people like prepare for these things.
[18:08]I thought you just was like show up.
[18:10]So I showed up and I heard this,
[18:11]it was a disaster.
[18:13]I thought it was at least,
[18:14]but I was really lucky and amazingly,
[18:16]I walked away with a really high ACT score.
[18:19]I don't know what it was,
[18:20]but it was like one of those like really high ones.
[18:22]And it was high enough that I got a full scholarship
[18:24]to Arizona State University.
[18:26]Oh my gosh.
[18:27]They literally didn't take into account like any of the,
[18:29]anything else.
[18:30]It was just like the ACT score
[18:32]because my ACT score was so high.
[18:34]And it was just dream come true.
[18:37]Amazing.
[18:38]I was blown away.
[18:39]And so I ended up going there
[18:41]and I loved it.
[18:42]It was wonderful.
[18:43]But I originally went there to study philosophy.
[18:47]And I had been reading all this like,
[18:49]all the philosophy stuff on my own.
[18:52]And so when I got there,
[18:53]it was like kind of just reviewing everything I knew.
[18:54]So I started taking graduate classes in philosophy.
[18:58]And I wanted kind of more of a challenge.
[19:00]And then I took this amazing astronomy class,
[19:03]fell in love with physics.
[19:04]Then Arizona State said, you know,
[19:06]you can't study physics
[19:08]because you have to have all these prerequisites
[19:10]for physics major.
[19:11]And I didn't have them.
[19:12]So I ended up,
[19:14]I decided well,
[19:15]maybe if I transferred to another school,
[19:18]then that has a different policy.
[19:20]Like maybe they'll let me study physics.
[19:22]So again, picked up my phone,
[19:24]called a bunch of schools,
[19:25]hey, if I got in,
[19:26]would you let me study physics?
[19:27]Would you let me say physics and University of Pennsylvania
[19:30]was one of the ones I said, yes.
[19:31]And so I got a chance for there,
[19:34]went there, studied physics, studied philosophy.
[19:37]And then after being there for less
[19:41]than just like four years there
[19:42]and then came out here to Silicon Valley
[19:46]and worked as a software engineer.
[19:49]And then, yeah, I worked at Uber for a while.
[19:54]And then I was kind of infamously at this point.
[19:58]I was a whistleblower about the central.
[20:00]harassment there. So this, which brings us to where I am now, because before I quit, I had this moment where I was like, you know, everyone's telling me and they're probably right that like
[20:13]After I blow the wet selector I speak about this, like no one's going to hire me as an engineer again, which end of be true, but I was like, okay, so I'm going to have to start all over again. If I could do anything, what I do, and I thought back to when I was a little kid and like, I've been writing my whole life.
[20:27]Like I've always, I've always written like always these stories like I wrote all these little books and I was a kid and they were never for anyone else because I had, I had no idea how I would even decide to publish. I didn't, I had no clue, but I just love to write.
[20:41]And so I wrote for years and years and years and I got better and I was really grateful that I had done all that because then you know when I was at Uber and I needed to write something to like tell my story, I knew how to because I've been writing for so long.
[20:55]And then I found myself like, you know, meeting to start all over again, I said, well, you know, I've always wanted to be right, like if I could go back and I could live one life, I would be a novelist and screenwriter and I also had this idea that like, you know, I'd always really wanted to be an editor at a newspaper or magazine.
[21:11]So those were like my, my big thing, but I said, okay, I'm going to do all those things and I'm going to see what I love most and maybe I'll do all of them or maybe I'll just love some of them, who knows.
[21:21]So I got a job as an editor of a tech magazine out here and I really loved it, but I wanted to do like, I wanted to work in like the most challenging possible.
[21:32]I was like, let's go all the way.
[21:34]So I got a job in New York Times and it was amazing, just absolutely wonderful.
[21:39]I worked there for a few years and I loved being an editor there. I loved all the creativity of it. I loved working with writers. I loved just like shaping the trajectory things.
[21:51]I loved the strategy part of editing. I felt those just so creative and so fun.
[21:55]And then I also was studying to be a screenwriter. So I took some classes at the new school started writing screenplays. That was amazing.
[22:03]And then I said, okay, I'm going to finally write a novel. Hopefully that like I really love.
[22:08]And that brings us to cover story. And this is the one where I was like, I've been writing for so long, but none of them felt like, oh, you want everybody to read this and then I wrote this. I was like, this is it. This is the one I want everyone to read this.
[22:22]This story, your life story. This is insane. I cannot believe why I'm so impressive.
[22:29]No, like that.
[22:31]No, it's amazing. It's amazing.
[22:35]Oh, thank you.
[22:36]The most amazing I feel like is you getting out of where you were like being homeschooled to like an Ivy League school with a heck. You know, I know.
[22:45]I don't think I could repeat it if I tried. Like when I look back.
[22:49]I don't know how I do that.
[22:51]But this was really important for me because when I was writing this book, one of the hardest ways for me to get into the characters of cat.
[22:59]Or Alessia was like, how do I make her human? Like how do I bring, you know, you got to bring some of you, like some of your own vulnerability, some of your experiences, otherwise it doesn't feel real.
[23:10]And I had this challenge where she didn't feel like a real person. She felt the caricature. And I was like, oh, I got to make her real.
[23:16]So I took these pieces, some of these pieces about like, how do you get out of systems? How do you get out of poverty? How do you get people to take you seriously?
[23:24]And she has this, her experience is different than mine. She can't get people. She can't get into the school. She can't get into the jobs.
[23:31]And I was like, you know, if you were very desperate, if you had nothing else, you can see like, I wouldn't do it, but you can see how someone would justify to themselves doing these things.
[23:41]And so I had to bring that in to make her feel more real. I did that on like one of the very last edits of this book.
[23:47]I was like, oh, she's missing something. And I was like, okay, I got to use myself. Okay, here we go.
[23:53]And I think that that gave her a little bit more humanity, you know, toward the end.
[23:59]Wow. That's really, really impressive.
[24:02]Wait question. How was your dad ever in the picture? This is like none of my business. You can just shut me up.
[24:08]Yeah. So my dad was a preacher and he was also someone who had like these really big dreams and never ever accomplished them.
[24:20]So like my mom was an artist. She went to art school. Amazing. What she's just incredibly gifted, incredibly wonderful artist, brilliant.
[24:29]And she wanted to be a state home mom and teacher. And so she ended up not being an artist, but she, she had like, she felt like being a mom and being a teacher was her calling.
[24:38]She's a public school teacher now, amazing at it.
[24:41]And then my dad was a preacher and he also like, he had all these dreams for all these things he wanted to do. And he just couldn't figure out how to make them work ever, ever.
[24:52]And growing up with that was it was so heartbreaking to see because like he lived so like authentically and his dreams were always on display, right?
[25:02]It was always working to accomplish things. And it was a really beautiful thing. Like, even though he had a lot of pain, it was really inspiring for me because I saw like, okay, imagine if you had that drive that passion that belief in yourself to just keep trying.
[25:19]And imagine if you could break through. Imagine if you could get something done. Imagine if you could succeed.
[25:25]It was really inspiring to me growing up. It was really painful, though, you know, because when you look back and I don't it's, I feel really blessed to have had, you know, such an authentic, full, like, a dreamer for a father.
[25:39]So that was really inspiring to me.
[25:41]Very different than the father of the Congress. Yes.
[25:45]I mean, I have to tell you, so I started reading the book. I read the book before I researched the author sometimes I researched the author first and then I read, but this time I just like jumped right into the book and read the whole thing.
[25:58]So then I flipped it over and I was like, who is this author? And then I was like, Oh, this is funny. She, she'd like makes all the stuff up. It's so tongue and cheek that she must have made up this bio because it's impossible for it to have all been true.
[26:11]And then I had to double check it on your website and I was like, Oh my gosh, like she wasn't kidding because there's so many accolades.
[26:18]I just have to say like, this is amazing. Person of the year by time, the financial times, the webi awards 40 under 40 vanity fair new establishment,
[26:30]clear new guard, Bloomberg 50 upstart 50, we code 100. I mean, you're on like every list in the world had it. I mean, what it's weird.
[26:40]It doesn't feel real. It doesn't feel real at all. I just think I'll do the same.
[26:45]Oh my gosh. And then of course, whistleblower. So wow. I mean, it's a lie.
[26:53]It's great. So like where are you now in your life? Where are you emotionally physically? Like where are you still living in Silicon Valley? It sounds like I am.
[27:02]Yeah, my husband, his company is out here. So we're here for, you know, for all that. And I worked at the Times for a while. And then once I started like making enough money to like to, you know, I was making more money than like writing like novels and stuff more than not than my regular job.
[27:20]And I was like, Oh my gosh. Like this is an amazing opportunity. I can just write full time, which is like, you know, honestly like the dream. And so there was also like they were getting ready for the election and all the coverage went to like the election and pandemic.
[27:36]And I'm, there was like none of the things that I really loved working on. We're still there. So I'll just pay this a good time for me to transition.
[27:43]So now I just write all the time. And I love it. It's amazing. I can't believe like I pinch myself all the time. It's like this cannot be real. I can't believe it.
[27:52]And I'm just always always writing, trying to figure out like, you know, what's that next one that I'm like, you know, because I write.
[28:00]And very prolific. And not everything is like something that like, this is the next one. We're going to write. So I'm right now and can figure out what's the next novel that I really am going to want like to put in people's hands.
[28:11]So that's why I'm at right now and rank screen plays and having a lot of fun. And it's great. I got two little kids and they're just actually magical. So I guess spend a lot of time with them just really fun.
[28:23]Yeah.
[28:24]Wow. And what's happened to your siblings.
[28:28]Well, they're all doing really well too. Almost all of them have gone to college, except for the little one who he's starting college.
[28:35]And the two little ones actually. And they're all just, you know, they're doing really well. And they're just thriving and really proud of them.
[28:43]Wow. Well, this is like a movie in and of itself. Just this little pieces.
[28:48]Okay. So like, what have you not crossed off the list? Like, what is it? What is it now like clearly you keep setting your mind to things. You're like, I'm going to do this.
[28:57]You're like, I'm going to do this. Boom. What are you I'm going to do with this about now. Is it screen. Is it writing a screenplay?
[29:04]I have a whole list actually. I'm going to show you something funny that I'm not sure anything else. I have this list.
[29:09]This book literally a book that says my goals and dreams.
[29:13]There are 180 things I have not accomplished yet that I want to accomplish.
[29:17]And it's like the most random stuff. So this is what I'm just working through.
[29:22]I love that so much. I can't even tell you. Read me a couple. Just like kick a couple.
[29:26]It's like so random. Okay. One is visit Antarctica.
[29:30]I've got learn basic fencing. So I'm actually taking fencing lessons right now because I want to cross it off the list.
[29:38]Writing middle grade novel. What else is on here? Oh, I really want to read more in peace and Russian.
[29:44]I really want to read play those Republican Greek. So I have like all these like random things.
[29:49]I'm going to like press up, but actually not many. Oh, see, I have publishing novel. I've got cover story on there.
[29:57]I'm like this truck is off.
[30:00]what else do I have. So I really want to direct an episode of television and I really want
[30:04]to direct a movie so I feel like that's probably like the next like 10 to 15 years and I want
[30:10]to write more novels but that's a big thing in mind is that's coming up next I hope so yeah there's
[30:16]just like so many you know at the great part it's amazing. The great part is you're gonna do
[30:21]that because you put it in a book like that book like hey you cannot right yeah you're like
[30:27]forget like there's so many things that I say I want to do I also at some point on right
[30:30]middle grade novel I'm not so sure about it. I'm not yet but like I have a bazillion diaries
[30:37]from when I was at age and I'm like I have to do something with this yeah if you don't have the
[30:40]list I don't know I just love your motivation is inspiring and now I want to like go right my own
[30:45]list and the fact that you keep it right there right you're never letting go you I have to do amazing
[30:50]yeah I have to and then I rewrite it every few years I sit down and I rewrite it and sometimes I'm
[30:55]like wow I would never want to do a thing like what was it that was on there I had something that
[30:59]was like it was the most random something like athletic thing I'm not a very athletic person
[31:04]and it was like something like run the 10k or something it was run 10k and I was like I'm never
[31:09]gonna do you have do you have any politic politics dreams like leadership type things no I don't
[31:20]I at one point I did I did want to just like I tried to get involved in something so like one of
[31:25]the things I got involved was like legislation at the federal and state level of getting rid of
[31:28]forced arbitration and then like I wrote an amicus brief at the Supreme Court and I think that's kind
[31:34]of like unless there's something that like really just got to me that I'm like okay I need to like
[31:37]put my name in all my energy behind this there's just like so much there's so much and it's like
[31:44]it's very chaotic that bill just passed the Gretchen Carlson I know and then amazing yeah yeah
[31:49]mostly thanks to Gretchen Carlson who is just oh yeah she's worked so hard like yeah she worked harder
[31:55]than anyone on that stuff is she was on this podcast talking about it before it passed oh yeah
[32:00]she's great she's really great yeah amazing well season if I could like pick stocks on people
[32:07]I would be picking you I can't wait to see like you're gonna do whatever I just I would I hope
[32:12]I get to see what it is that your output is and you know follow along with like you're crossing
[32:17]up the list you should put it on Instagram or so I don't know something like you should make it
[32:22]something that like people are all rooting for you and like going along with it that could be in a
[32:26]book also you know that's a good that's a good idea I feel like when I look at it it's so funny
[32:34]because I look at every time I look at it and just like oh my gosh like it's short and I'm
[32:38]never gonna get to do all these things but it's it's fun it's really fun and yeah I do feel like
[32:45]like the short and I've been given really amazing chance and and there's just so much to do
[32:51]and I'm just really glad I just can't wait for feel to read the book honestly and this one I'm just
[32:55]like okay what do y'all think like I just want to have like a million book club things and like
[33:00]you can't do that because you're not there you have it chill out oh my gosh I love it well I'm
[33:07]excited for you and I totally enjoyed it and it was so clever and again you know I just didn't put
[33:14]all the pieces together so I just can make me so happy you have no idea how much it means to me I'm
[33:18]so excited so thankful for you for me the book and also just like for having me on and
[33:23]this is really fun it was fun thank you for chatting with me thank you so much bye
[33:31]thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books don't forget to
[33:35]follow me on instagram at zebi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books also sign up for
[33:40]my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom
[33:45]every other week thanks so much to Steve and Ryan fact texture sound for the sound editing
[33:50]and thank you to morning moon productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[33:54]now trim music