Adriana Trigiani, THE GOOD LEFT UNDONE

[1:05]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zibby Owens, and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. And speaking of books, I have two of my own books coming out this spring and summer. Princess Charming is a picture book, which debuts on April 19, and A Memoir of Love, Loss, and Literature comes out on July 1, and it is truly a labor of love. I hope you'll preorder, order, and join me on tour as I go across the country. You can find out more at zibbyowens.com or bookendsmemoir.com. And you can follow me on Instagram at zibby owens because I always post about everything. Enjoy the show. Hey, everyone. I need your help. If you love this podcast, you will love my children's book. It's called Princess Charming, and I am really trying to drum up preorder sales. You might not know this, but before a book comes out is actually a really important time for the whole book's trajectory. So please preorder Princess Charming, which comes out April 19 today. Just stop what you're doing and go do that, please. When it arrives on April 19, you can give it to a loved one in your life, a niece, a grandchild, a child, a student, a kid walking by on the street, anybody. But if you could do this, here is my offer. If you email me your receipt showing me that you bought the book online somewhere and preordered it, email info@zibbyowens.com. That's info@zibbyowens.com. And I will pick 10 people to do a special giveaway project award to from my new Bonfire merch store, which you should also check out, which is the Zibby Owens Media Bonfire store where you can get all sorts of cool T shirts and tote bags and author sayings and all sorts of great stuff. So or did I say 10 of you are going to get a special care package of your choice from the Bonfire store, and I will pick at random from all of you who preorder the book. So if that wasn't clear, go preorder Princess Charming. Again, it's called Princess Charming. It's my debut picture book. It's really cute and great, and it's illustrated by Holly Hadham. And then after you get the receipt, screenshot it or forward it to me at infozibbyowens dot com, and you will be entered to win one of 10 exciting care packages. So go off in order. Thank you so much. Bye. Adriana Trojani is the author of The Good Left Undone, a novel. Adriana is the New York Times bestselling author of 20 books of fiction and nonfiction, including the blockbuster The Shoemaker's Wife. Her books have been published in 38 languages around the world. She's an award winning playwright, television writer and producer and filmmaker. Among her screen credits, Tregiani wrote and directed the major motion picture adaptation of her big debut novel, Big Stone Gap. Adriana grew up in the Blue Ridge Mountains Of Virginia, which she calls Appalachia. It's not Appalachia. She calls it Appalachia, and everybody should know that, where she co founded the Origin Project. Adriana is proud to serve on the New York State Council of the Arts, and she lives in New York City with her family. She also has a children's book that came out this year called the House of Love. Welcome, Adriana. Thank you so much for coming on moms don't have time to read books to discuss your You glow in the morning. You look so pretty.

[4:29]Adriana Trigiani: Thank you. You glow, girl.

[4:33]Zibby Owens: I'll take it. I'm gonna just put I'll just put that on repeat every day when I'm, like, feeling so awful and, you know, all the rest. I know. I know. But you shouldn't. Thank That's a waste of time. As my mother said, in ten years, you'll really be sorry you said it. I I understand that now as I look back, and I'm like, oh my god. I thought I looked bad then? Like I know. Right. Right. All those that shoebox of bad pictures, now you put them in the Met. Totally. I'm like, Spotlights. Like, literally, sometimes I just post. I'm like, I used to look like that.

[5:04]Adriana Trigiani: That's actually me. Yeah. I love it. I love it.

[5:08]Zibby Owens: But, yeah, you know, aging, whatever. Okay. So you have a new novel out. You've written, like, a bazillion books, I think 20 plus at this point. The Good Left Undone, tell everybody about it. Tell everybody what this book is about. Why this book? Why now? Well,

[5:24]Adriana Trigiani: you know, you say aging, but the premise of this book is a family is only as strong as their stories. But woven into that, you know, you're born at a certain time, and and it seems to me that it's the women in the family that passed the stories down in their actual veracity and description. Okay? So at the beginning of this novel, it's set in contemporary Italy, and I thought that because I have cousins over there. I'm very close to my cousins. I mean, I really am, like, I'm a real Italian. Because I, you know, I have family there, and I I love them, and I pay attention. And I before COVID, I went over there every year, and I I just I would be redeemed, and then I would come home and try to apply those ways of living to life here. But what you realize after a while, no family's perfect, but you also realize how people run their families. We were just talking about your beautiful memoir. You're leaving your children something. I believe in that. And this started out of my need to my grandmothers are gone and my mother passed recently, and I just had this sense of them. And I had a window because I returned to Penguin Random House to Dutton to my editor, Maya Zieve, and you'll find this as you go on in your writing life, you're refortified about the stories that you want to tell. And I call this my hit by a bus book because every single book I've written, I'm in love with and proud of. I'm one of those authors. I just loved the process of writing them. This one is really deeply personal. It would appear on the surface. Well, it's not your family exactly. My grandmother, my mother, they're all in here. I'm in there in teeny weeny ways. I mean, teeny weeny because I had this this beauty of the characters, and it's intergenerational. So there's a very central youth story there of a girl that's about to get married who's 24. And she's the the granddaughter of the woman who tells this story of her mother. So it goes back to World War two. I was directing a movie in Scotland. I had made a list of places I wanted to go. Zippy, I am not as organized as you are, but I made a list. Of course, it was alphabetical. So I started with St. Andrews, and that's where I got the story. I went to a wedding that I crashed. I always crash weddings, believe in it, because Italians think it's good luck to see a bride on her wedding day. My phone is full of brides. Because wherever I when I'm a book tour, oh, there's a bride getting married or whatever. We think it's good luck. So that's what triggered it. But I'm in the back of this Catholic cathedral. I am Catholic. And all the music that was played at that funeral, my mother had chosen or or that wedding was played at my mother's funeral and my mother had chosen it. So I thought, okay. This is a sign from my mother. When I got outside and I was taking pictures, this man behind me goes, who are you? And I turned around and it was the priest. I said, oh, father, I'm just a tourist. And I went back to taking pictures and he said, what's your name? And I told him my name, Adriana Trojani, that difficult name to say. Anyway, so he said, oh, you're Italian. He said, I thought you were. And I said, oh, yeah, I'm Italian, Italian American. He said, well, then you need to see our garden. And that's where I got the story of the Arundora star that I had never heard. And by the way, published by MJ, which is Michael Joseph in England, and they never heard of it. So it was propagandized and buried the story. And then I researched it, hired researchers, the great Cynthia Olson out of Spokane, Washington, who's an attorney. You want an attorney, right, to unearth facts. And she did the kind of the the the linchpins. And then I went back and figured out how to do it. So there's a great deal of truth in the story, and it's also I make a meatball out of my family and immigration, which is a big theme in our family. You know, in in our family, immigration is a word of honor.

[9:37]Zibby Owens: Wow. Wait. Talk talk more about the story that you found and why you Okay. Well, so I go into this garden resurrected

[9:45]Adriana Trigiani: by and and and designed okay. You have to understand, Saint Andrews Cathedral is old, and there's the River Clyde, and Glasgow's like Brooklyn. If you wanna get a visual image of Glasgow, to me, it's Brooklyn. But there's more antiquities there, shall we say. But just like Brooklyn, there are shipyards. They built ships there. One of them is the ship that's involved in the novel that I'm about to tell you. And the Air Indoora Star was one of five of the they called them the blue star line of luxury liners. You might say, well, why are you interested in ships? Because my mother framed every immigration document in gold and hung in our family home. So we would look at the Rochambeau that our grandmother came over on like it was, you know well, how can I describe it? Like the chariot of heaven. I mean, the Rochambeau. Right? Well, the Irindor star line, when when when war broke out now World War two had many false starts, but the one that sealed the fate of who we call the britallians, which are just like Italian American immigrants, but they're in Scotland. They brought gelato. They brought fish and chips, pizza. We were in the food business. And if you were really ambitious in Scotland, you you put up a gelato factory. But my character is the peddler who sells it off his truck. His brother's the rich one, he's still pedaling, Antica. Archangelo Antica is his name. So I took all these bits of what's true and made the landscape. Now what is the landscape? Well, these five ships were requisitioned by Churchill to transport prisoners. And, eventually, they'd have crosses painted on and stuff, but what they did, and it's dramatized in the novel, is they wrapped them in barbed wire to transport prisoners. So here's who you had on board the air in Doris Star on the morning of 07/02/1940. Keep in mind on 06/04/1940, Mussolini declared war on England. So there's a true story of let let me just put you this way. The Nazis would prowl the seas, and there was a general named Gunther Preen who was kind of the king of the U boats. He was a diabolical evil son of a bitch. Okay? And he prowled the seas, and he had one torpedo that morning. The Arundora was transporting Jewish intellectuals and Nazis on the same level of the ship. And then stuffed below, of course, were the Italians, 784 of them. Gunther Preen's sneaking around. It's all described in the book. My characters are all in place, including this fabulous character, Sabatini, based on they're all based on real people. The only name that I kept exact was the priest because he has no heirs, and I wanted him honored. So snaking their hand on there. He had one torpedo. He was just doing they were doing test runs, the Nazis. Oh, isn't that delightful? And they saw the ship, and they fired it, and it's 700 some Italians lost their lives, and their name is on a plinth. I had no idea. I didn't know I didn't even know there were battalions. I didn't know they emigrated there. I did not I did understand a little bit about teeny weeny bit because I have Australian Italian friends and Canadian Italian friends. So I knew that people got places not just by traditional immigration, but as prisoners of war. But I didn't know how they got there or why or any of that. So Winston Churchill, the great Winston Churchill, just to tell you, as you write your novels, I started out I had 300 pages of Winston Churchill in here. 300 pages and it's all cut. I cut all of it because I had to see, you know, I was determined. I had to see, know, this scene had to go in the book, you know, that because I was obsessed with him, but more obsessed with Orson Welles. And there's there's a time when Orson Welles met Winston Churchill. Sidebar, sidebar, but germane to the story. So when Winston Churchill said he they they brought him this problem with the Italians, the battalions, he goes, look. They're embedded everywhere. There was this fear of the fifth column. There had been a lot of boy, isn't this in a haven't we seen this lately? A ratchet up of fake news about the Italian immigrants of which I had to pay for a piece to put in this book so you could see in our intense research what we found. Okay? It's in there with the guy who wrote it and everything, he was talking about beetle browed Italians and, know, oh, this is horrible anyway. So there was a built up hatred happening. So Winston Churchill, who you know was worried about the families, the shop girls, the kids, his his country going, you know, to the Nazis panicked, I believe. Historians all differ on this. And said, collar the lot of them. Get them off the get every get every Italian Scott, every Italian Brit Britalians, they're called, every tally, which was the slur name for us, get them off the island. Ship them off, put them in prison camps. So there were prison camps in Canada, Australia, The Falklands. And on this particular boat, they were headed to Canada. They weren't told where they were going. They were just herded up. And, you know, the Italians, you know, I love my people. My people were dressed to the nines because they thought they were just going to register somewhere. They're bantering with the cops and the the people rounding them up, the soldiers, because they're all friends. They're all friends. But if you're an immigrant, you're waiting for the knock at the door to say get out. I I wait for it. I don't know. Could happen. So the story then became how my characters, my Italian family played into this story, and it's it's kind of delicious and you read it. So, you know, There's two big love stories in it because as much as I love the one life, one love story, there's something about the resonance of love lost and love found again, which is hope. That's hope in a jar right there.

[15:55]Zibby Owens: Hope in a jar that you lose your love and you're gonna and and you you will love again. The promise of hope that you will love again. So so, Zibby, I've been talking for two hours. And I love it. Thank you for making my job so easy today. I'm just gonna, you know, pour myself a cup of coffee and, like, settle it. I I I mean, you know, one or two more questions, we'll be done. You know?

[16:16]Adriana Trigiani: Well, that's kind of, you know, nothing happens easily and it's always over the course of this book is many years in the making, they all are. And I keep these, I can't turn the camera around, but there's just stacks of notes. It looks like a hoarder lives here, but they're notebooks, they're just full of ideas and ways to tell a story. And I have notebooks on immigration. I'm interested in immigration. I I can't understand why we and I include my people in this. Really it's our people because we're all one, but why we we suddenly once we've assimilated, we don't want anybody new. Mhmm. And we were the new people. Yeah. Interesting to me.

[16:55]Zibby Owens: Yeah. It's almost like you work so hard to get into a club that you, like, wanna prohibit any new members or something.

[17:02]Adriana Trigiani: It's like that. It's like that, but of course it's spiritual too. There's some idea that, you know, oh, my people had it hard, but now I'm we don't go back. But I think you have to stay in the heart of the immigrant always when you are an immigrant. You must stay there. You must hold onto the pain, the suffering, and the joy of it all. And it could because if you don't, you lose your democracy.

[17:30]Zibby Owens: Did your mom and grandmothers like, did everybody instill that in you, or is it just something you feel like you understood? Like, was is this something that's talked about, like, you know, similar to the the Passover table where you retell the story over and over again? Like, is this one of those things? You know, I always like to say as a Roman Catholic that we got everything from the Jews. Everything. We got every prayer,

[17:52]Adriana Trigiani: every, you know, that learnedness, that study, that that idea of you you walk with your faith, you live it, you write it down, you pass it on, you shore up your families, you know, with faith. Okay? So my family was all about that. We are, of course, incredibly flawed and in all kinds of ways, but there's this fundamental foundation of pride in what we come from. It never occurred to me, and listen, I grew up in Appalachia where there were like, we did dig to find Italians and our fellow Catholics there, we were this little band of misfit toys I call us, because we were less than 1% of the population. By the way, there was one Jewish family, so that'll tell you where we are. So I grew up in a in a place where, interestingly, it was mainly Scots Irish, mainly, and the other were Melungeons, African Americans, and Native Americans, some people of Turkish descent from the French and Indian War that stayed there in the mountains, all that beautiful mix. But as Italians, we could've swept in, and there we had to find our place once again. So I had a little drop, you know, from my grandmothers of what the experience of immigration was. A little bit. My mother's people settled on the iron range. The stories were told to me, it became the shoemaker's wife. My grandmother, Perrine, from she's Venetian. She's from the Veneto. They call it right near Venice. Her story was a great one of of my my great grandmother dropping her boyfriend and going with my great grandfather, America. And that's a whole story. And then my father's people and the way they got here and they're sort of a little bit, they're Southern, not too South, kind of not too North, kind of in the Middle Foggia, that area, Barrese. So those stories were what we talked around the dinner table. When I went and stayed with my grandmother, when I was in my twenties and I'd hang out and stay, you know, the shed bedroom looked like I love Lucy, so it's in my grandfather's bed. And we talk all night, you know, I mean, it's about to be Easter time. And I said, how'd you how'd you color your eggs back? I mean, I'd ask stupid questions because I'm a writer. She said, we didn't have like the little tablets to dye our eggs. She goes, we used herbs. We we used beets to make them pink. We used onions to make them this beautiful taupey color. I thought taupe eggs. But you you see where I'm going here. Farm girl. And so and then the farm in Italy and that and how her mother she had a sister who'd go collect the mail at the end of the lane because I never wanted to bring a letter from Italy because my grandmother would cry. Let me show you something. Oh, can we can people see us on this thing? Yeah. For parts of it. Yeah. I like how I call it a thing. This is my great grandmother's purse. Oh my gosh. Okay. And in the purse, my cousin gave it to me because my cousin, you know, book prayers. Don't think I don't go in here and see what she marked. I do. Look at this. The libretto. This is the her travels all over Italy. Wow. There's money in here. Look at the letters. The letters that she dreaded. Oh my gosh. And look at the handwriting. How beautiful. But, anyway, I tell you, because that's what my house is full of. It's full of the past. For people only listening,

[21:25]Zibby Owens: Adriana just held up these like, it's like out of a movie. I'll put it on Instagram, but it's like these antique letters and old stamps and it's it's this old fashioned purse. It's gives me the chills. It's amazing that you have that. The truth.

[21:40]Adriana Trigiani: I'm not gonna be alive long enough to tell all these stories. One letter is a story, And that's not the only I've got boxes of them because that's how they communicated. But my point is, is that you everybody has these things. And if you don't have the physical object, you have the story. So the idea is tell the story as you did in your memoir about your grandparents. You've got to tell this. If you don't tell the stories, I have no context for who Zebbe Owens is. I have no idea. I mean, I know you in the moment. But when I look at you, I don't have to have met your great grandmother because you're her. You see? You don't have to meet my people. You're meeting them right now. That's how I look at it, and that's how I write novels.

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[25:18]Zibby Owens: I also love the idea that you're never gonna run out of things to write about. I mean I know.

[25:22]Adriana Trigiani: Oh, it it'd be impossible. And and, you know, you know, I'm a director of movies, and I I will never run out of movies to direct if I if I get to make and I won't because that business isn't what it is. I mean, just, even when you make one, you start all over the next morning to try to put together another project, to put together another project and another, it's just, but it doesn't have the rhythm say of other art forms because you're you're reliant on many other pieces to come into focus and place. You really are the sort of equal opportunity storyteller. There is no format that you're not like digging into with novels and You know, I did TV. I know. TV. I know. TV. On the Cosby Show. Right? Like But, yeah, that's right. I started on a different world and then went to the Cosby Show. And in in in betwixt and between all those, you know, I did the Farrah Fawcett Ryan O'Neill sitcom with the great Alan Sly Bell. I was like a baby writer on that one where I met my best friend. I mean, you know, it's like one thing after another, but I I only say that because I was longing to find the the place to tell these stories. Mhmm. And twenty two years ago, when television kinda took a turn for the mean, and I don't I can't write that stuff. I was not into it. I probably, if I had to, figure out how to do it, but I'm too interested in these stories to kinda squander my time. Do you feel compelled to now collect stories from other people that you meet along the way? Like, you meet tons of people. You're always interviewing. You have your Tuesday night Facebook live. No. My you know, my last novel was Tony's wife, which I love. I I wanted to write about craftsman in in music over the last century because it was our grandparents, Zippy, danced to music of working class people. They weren't prior to 1900, it was like fancy pants, very classical stuff. Okay? I in fact, one of my grandmothers was such an Enrico Caruso fan. She loved the opera. Now I love it. I didn't. I think once you're 50, you love the opera. Mario Pantone says, I don't know why I hated the opera till I was 50. And now, you know, we're all in the same boat now, we love it. But the idea that there were art forms that every immigrant had a hand in, You know, we laugh about the Academy Awards, but the Academy Awards was a was a was a desperation shot. Louis b Mayer was worried that everybody was going to radio. They thought that it was the end of the movies, and the talkies would kill the movies. So they put together an award show to kinda lure people. I mean, when Claudette Colbert won, she was on a train going on a ski vacation. I mean, nobody cared. Nobody went. They thought it was like a publicity stunt, and it's grown into this iconic thing. And as iconic things go sometimes, sometimes they lose their jet fuel. Okay. Over time. And if they just went back to what it was at the beginning, they'd be fine. But there's this all this hoi polloi, you know, when the fanciness moves in, Zibby, it's over. When fancy pants takes over, you you lose the touch of the people. When you lose the touch of the people, art dies. My opinion. My opinion. But anyway, wrote Tony's wife and really what I was going to do was write the story of Mrs. Frank Sinatra, the first Mrs. Frank Sinatra, Because I became very interested in her because one of my close friends, Sharon Hall, was producing the one hundredth birthday of Frank Sinatra. Now you can go back. This was like at the beginning of my writing career. Think he turned 100. I don't know when he turned 100, maybe. Well, was it 1970 or maybe 2007 or something or 2007? I don't know. I can't do math anyway. So Sinatra was interesting to me because he was a working class Italian boy. But then you found out the working class Jewish kids, the working class Irish, the working class and I could keep going, right? So there's three books, there's All the Stars in the Heavens, which is about the golden age of Hollywood and a story that I found that I thought was riveting about a young Catholic actress, Loretta Young and her assistant who was Italian, I invented her. So that was a golden age of Hollywood. Then I wrote Kiss Carla, which is the advent of television. By the way, the first director and developer of the television series was a woman not credited as she should be. Gloria Montemuro from New Jersey, who became Gloria Monty, who was a person that reinvented daytime television with General Hospital and, you know, Okay, her. So when I read about her and that whole scene through the eyes of a guy that comes home from the war and what happens to them and this Shakespearean, this Italian Shakespeare company. Then Frank Sinatra, but it soon became apparent to me that the story wasn't her story and also I would have had to let go at hand at Sinatra's and they tell their stories better than I can. Instead, I wrote about a man that didn't become Sinatra, but because of his lack of discipline and his coulda and his wife who was the songwriter and performer, and they meet on the Jersey Shore in 1938. So you see how I do it? So it's always family, family, family, and always my family is woven in as deeply as I can weave them. Wow. Amazing.

[30:53]Zibby Owens: So if somebody else was starting, I can't believe we're, like, out of time already. I I Adriana, as you know, I could just sit and listen to you all day. We didn't even talk about your children's book, which we did our little Instagram live on Valentine's Day. It was so amazing. Was that. House of love. That was so much fun to be with you on Valentine's Day. I'm so glad we did that. But anyway, your children's book's amazing and also speaks to family and home and the importance of everything that you're you're thematic, you know, over, if you will. So what there's somebody starting out, they have a million family stories, they don't know where to begin. What should they do?

[31:27]Adriana Trigiani: Well, I think the first thing first of all, I encourage it. I am with you if you wanna go on this journey. I think that this this is a high calling, a high spiritual calling to tell these stories. So if you if you have them and I can there's anything I can do to help, I say that if you're within the sound of our voices, reach out to me. What you're going to do ultimately is choose one that fuels your ambition. That's the one you write, because in the process of writing a book, there are years in the making. They are years in the making. Everything I do, it's never like, Oh, I just got an idea. It's, it's, it's cultivated over time because I was the kid who was interested in the stories. You know, had a great aunt that put her kids to bed and went to the movies every night. You know, you didn't have TV in the 1940s. Did in early 40s and during the war. And she went to the movie house. She could so when I got into film, I would talk to her about it. I was young. And she'd tell me on TV, they cut out the most important scenes. She'd gone so many times to be, she knew the lines. And she goes, well, there was a scene with Clark Gable and Spencer Tracy, where he said, but they used to just cut them the million dollar movies if they, you know, so the viewer really wasn't getting the full. So the first thing I say about family stories is try to put them in a cultural context. Edna Ferber is really important to me for there's a lot of reasons. She's born around the time of my great grandmother. She was the only Jewish girl in Appleton, Wisconsin. I'm writing a play about her. That's how much I love her. You find the cultural context, read the autobiographies of people born at the time And then you start to fold it together. You start to just fold it together and comes together. Success isn't guaranteed when you work hard. True. It's just not. And there's a luck factor for a lot of folks. But what isn't lucky is who you are and how you got here. That was somebody's persistence. That was somebody's vision. Like we're mothers, we get it. We know what we say to those kids shapes their ideas about the world. It shapes them. And we have to be very careful with that and protect their talents and nurture their talents and get them to be tough. They got to be strong. You got to put them out there. It's terrible. Motherhood is not for weenies. Having said that, your initial question, which was so brilliant, who did it in each of their ways? My ancestors that I knew, which would include my mother, made sure I got it got through to me. Not the greatest student, class clown, always loved show business. I'm that kid. But those seeds they planted, they took root. They really did. Took maybe it took thirty years for me to get to, but they took root. So just know that those seeds that are within you will as a writer. And the same goes for our our kids and those we know. You have your parents, Zeb, ask them everything. Make lists. And I say that everybody within your parents are still on this planet, ask them everything. Thank God. I mean, there are questions. Somebody said that to me. I wish I could remember who. It might have been my grandmother said it to me, always ask the questions. And before my dad died, my father had worn this. We could talk for twelve years. Anyway, my father wore what we call a miraculous medal, and it's the blessed mother, which is Mary, the first Jewish mother. Okay? And it was gold, beautiful plain. My brother wears it now on a chain. I figured my mother gave it to him. But before my dad died, it was on my list of questions. I said, where where'd you get that? Because when my father had surgery, they took the necklace off and and and taped it to the bag, you know, of your IV with the stuff in it. Yep. Taped it. Then when it was done, he put it back on. He never removed it ever to swim, to anything. And my father told me, he said, no, no, your mother didn't give me that. My best friend at Saint Francis Preparatory School, his name was Guido Alarcon, and they called him the Argentinian playboy. And he was not a believer. Okay, he went to this Catholic boy school, but he was not a believer. And he went home on Christmas break. He had he bought the medal in Argentina and he had it blessed. And and I'm not sure if it's Argentina, so forgive me to the Alarcon family, a l l a r c o n. Anyway, it could be Brazil, but I'm gonna go with Argentina because my father called him I think because it sounded good, Argentinian playbook. But anyway, he gave it to my dad, and he said, I don't believe in any of this hocus pocus, but you do. It's yours. It's blessed. Think of me. I thought you were gonna say then he passed away, like, the next week or something. No. Okay. No. It's not like you're listening to my guy with the people passing.

[36:28]Zibby Owens: Stop. I just thought that's very funny. But you know what I'm saying? Yes. Yes. Ask questions of your parents. That is the best. Yes. Think of me. Love it. Wow. Adrianna, thank you. To be continued in some way, shape, or form. I only like to touch at my house. Maybe my house. Sounds great. I'm in. Thank you so much. You. Thank you. Congratulations.

[36:51]Adriana Trigiani: Thank you, Zib. Bye. Bye

[36:55]Zibby Owens: Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens and at moms don't have time to read books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.