Bonnie Garmus, LESSONS IN CHEMISTRY: A Novel
[0:01]Hi, this is Ziggy Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast.
[0:05]Moms don't have time to read books, and speaking of books, I have two of my own books
[0:10]coming out this spring and summer.
[0:12]Princess Charming is a picture book, which debuts on April 19th, and bookends.
[0:17]A memoir of love, loss, and literature comes out on July 1st, and it is truly a labor of love.
[0:24]I hope you'll pre-order, order, and join me on tour as I go across the country.
[0:28]You can find out more at zibbyowens.com, or bookendsmemoir.com, and you can follow me
[0:35]on Instagram at zibbyowens, because I always post about everything.
[0:38]Enjoy the show!
[0:41]Hey everyone, I need your help.
[0:43]If you love this podcast, you will love my children's book.
[0:47]It's called Princess Charming, and I am really trying to drum up pre-order sales.
[0:51]You might not know this, but before a book comes out is actually a really important time
[0:55]for the whole book's trajectory.
[0:57]So please pre-order Princess Charming, which comes out April 19th today.
[1:03]Just stop what you're doing and go do that, please.
[1:06]When it arrives on April 19th, you can give it to a loved one in your life, a niece,
[1:11]a grandchild, a child, a student, a kid walking by on the street, anybody.
[1:17]But if you could do this, here is my offer.
[1:20]If you email me your receipt showing me that you bought the book online somewhere
[1:25]and pre-ordered it, email info at zibbyowens.com, that's info at zibbyowens.com, and
[1:33]I will pick 10 people to do a special giveaway project award to from my new Bonfire merch
[1:41]store, which you should also check out, which is the Zibbyowens Media Bonfire store, where
[1:46]you can get all sorts of cool t-shirts and tote bags and author sayings and all sorts
[1:51]of great stuff.
[1:52]Or dice a 10 of you are going to get a special care package of your choice from the
[1:57]Bonfire store, and I will pick at random from all of you who pre-ordered the book.
[2:02]So if that wasn't clear, go pre-order Princess Charming.
[2:06]Again, it's called Princess Charming.
[2:08]It's my debut picture book.
[2:10]It's really cute and great and it's illustrated by Holly Hadam.
[2:14]And then after you get the receipt, screenshot it or for it to me at info at zibbyowens.com,
[2:21]and you will be entered to win one of 10 exciting care packages.
[2:26]So go off in order.
[2:28]Thank you so much.
[2:29]Bye.
[2:30]Bonnie Garmus is the author of Lessons in Chemistry, a novel, which is her debut novel.
[2:36]Bonnie is a copywriter and creative director who has worked widely in the fields of technology,
[2:41]medicine and education.
[2:43]She's an open water swimmer, a rower, and mother to two pretty amazing daughters, born
[2:48]in California, and most recently from Seattle.
[2:50]She currently lives in London with her husband and her dog, 99.
[2:55]Lessons in Chemistry has already been optioned as an Apple TV plus production with
[3:00]Brie Larson starring.
[3:02]Welcome Bonnie.
[3:03]Thank you for coming.
[3:04]On mom's don't have time to read books to discuss Lessons in Chemistry.
[3:07]Thank you so much for having me zibby.
[3:10]I'm so excited to be here.
[3:12]Oh, I love it.
[3:13]Okay.
[3:14]Can you please tell everybody what Lessons in Chemistry is about and what inspired you
[3:19]to write it?
[3:21]And by the way, if you're listening, I would encourage everybody to check out Bonnie's
[3:25]website, which I think is now my favorite author website that I've seen.
[3:29]I love it.
[3:30]I love the colors.
[3:31]I love the video.
[3:32]I love this like retro theme.
[3:33]I'm like kind of just obsessed with your overall branding of all of it.
[3:37]So any of all that is so kind when my daughter designed the website.
[3:41]No way.
[3:42]Yeah, I know I'm lucky, but Lessons in Chemistry is a book about a woman named Elizabeth
[3:49]Scott.
[3:50]She's a chemist in the late 50s, early 1960s, and she gets fired from a research job
[3:56]because she's pregnant, but she could not be at that time.
[3:59]She very reluctantly takes a job.
[4:01]I think most people would love as a TV cooking show host, but Elizabeth doesn't love
[4:06]it.
[4:07]And even though she's supposed to be teaching cooking, which she does instead is she teaches
[4:12]chemistry.
[4:14]And that is because cooking is chemistry.
[4:16]Naturally, this is not what her producers had in mind.
[4:19]And there's a lot of trouble with that, but the housewives at home eat it up and eventually
[4:24]everyone else does, too, because really the show is not about cooking.
[4:29]It's really about personal empowerment.
[4:31]And yeah, I think that's probably the best summary I can give of the book.
[4:35]I love it.
[4:36]Even Lyndon Johnson was eating it up, right?
[4:39]Exactly.
[4:40]Exactly.
[4:41]You're right.
[4:42]And I love how it even came to be that she was upset.
[4:45]Elizabeth has upset that her daughter, a precocious young reader, was losing weight because
[4:50]she wasn't eating these like carefully crafted meals she was making with the optimal nutrition
[4:55]and from all of her intense, you know, intellectual research.
[5:00]And yet her daughter was losing weight and she went to confront the dad.
[5:04]I hope this is not giving anything away.
[5:06]This is like very beginning.
[5:07]And then the dad of the friend who was eating all the food, she confronts and he's like,
[5:12]oh, how about I give you a show?
[5:13]So it's only, if only it works that way today.
[5:16]I know exactly.
[5:17]Exactly.
[5:18]Yeah.
[5:19]Yeah, no, it's super fun to write that scene especially.
[5:22]And Elizabeth is just such a cool woman.
[5:25]I mean, she is a fabulous character.
[5:27]He developed so well.
[5:29]I mean, she's obviously like this strong, beautiful.
[5:32]I mean, the bright red lipstick and like the beautiful, like the, you can tell she's
[5:37]like the stat her stature, I guess, right?
[5:40]You can, it like flies off the page, like somebody you want to stand up straight or to
[5:44]be around.
[5:45]So tell me how you came up with her, like where did she come from?
[5:48]Where did this book come from?
[5:49]Maybe I should back up.
[5:51]I'm always a little embarrassed to say this, the book came from a bad mood.
[5:55]I'd been in a meeting at work and I had been presenting some concepts and it was a room
[6:00]full of men.
[6:02]And after I did it, there was a little bit of discussion, but really nothing.
[6:05]And then another man said exactly what I had just said and everyone went, now that's
[6:10]a great idea.
[6:12]And so, you know, this sort of thing, of course, still goes on.
[6:16]And I came home and instead of, well, I went back to my desk and instead of working,
[6:20]I wrote the first chapter of Lessons in Chemistry, I think I wrote a Elizabeth because
[6:25]I wanted somebody who I could look up to.
[6:28]I really wanted somebody to personify this woman who would just go, no, no, no, and that
[6:36]was her.
[6:37]Wow.
[6:38]And did it work?
[6:39]Better?
[6:40]I felt better after I sold the book.
[6:42]Oh my gosh, tell me about your career and writing in general.
[6:49]So you were a coffee writer and was it your whole life?
[6:53]No, I started in publishing actually in scientific publishing.
[6:58]I was only there for, I don't know, four years or so.
[7:01]And then I moved on and I did a little bit of tech writing, but to be honest, I was terrible
[7:07]and my boss actually told me that my writing sounded sarcastic and I think he was right
[7:12]because, you know, I write things like, and then you do this, well, you know what to do.
[7:17]I don't know, so that didn't work out.
[7:20]And then I started doing coffee writing.
[7:22]I didn't actually work for any agencies.
[7:24]I probably worked for all agencies.
[7:27]I worked for, I don't know, 30 of them plus a lot of design firms.
[7:32]I kind of ended up specializing in technology and in medical technology and then also an education.
[7:39]So a lot of different clients and that was good for me.
[7:44]Wow.
[7:45]And so what were some of your favorite campaigns or something like tell me something fun?
[7:49]Oh, I did, you know, I wrote this campaign actually from Microsoft just tons of years ago
[7:54]and it still has these legs to it.
[7:58]It was a recruiting campaign.
[8:00]They were really having trouble getting good people in because they were competing with
[8:05]everybody, every other technology company at that time and this is way back in the 90s.
[8:11]And so I wrote this campaign for them from this point of view of what you do with your
[8:16]work really matters, what you do with your life really matters.
[8:19]And so it isn't a question of coming into a software company and hopefully getting, you
[8:24]know, benefits or whatever.
[8:27]It's really a point of pride.
[8:29]If you're really going to be writing code for a billion people, you really need to do a
[8:33]good job.
[8:34]But it was this voice that they loved and they said that's it.
[8:37]That's it.
[8:38]So for some reason, that campaign is still around and I still get, I still get, you
[8:43]know, updates from people about, oh, I just saw that, you know, it's so funny.
[8:48]Well, that's pretty much feel good, you know, through a couple of years, oh, you know,
[8:53]exactly.
[8:54]And, you know, I worked for a lot of people.
[8:56]So it was, you kind of got the idea.
[8:59]I didn't always love who I worked for, but I loved a lot of the projects I worked with
[9:04]and I worked on and I loved the teams of people outside of these companies.
[9:09]So that was great.
[9:11]So then all of a sudden you become a novelist.
[9:14]So you, you just got upset and wrote a chapter.
[9:17]There must have been, please tell me there was more to it than that.
[9:20]Oh, yeah, there was.
[9:21]Okay.
[9:22]I'll be very jealous.
[9:23]I mean, that sounds pretty amazing.
[9:26]No, every copywriter is a novelist and we all want to be, of course.
[9:31]And I did write another novel before this that was rejected, 98 times.
[9:35]And so, you know, you have to be really tough, writers are writer.
[9:38]You just have to take rejection.
[9:40]That's the beauty of copywriting.
[9:41]You get rejected so often.
[9:43]That's why you developed that way, you named your dog, 99, did I, no, no, 99 is actually
[9:51]named after a friend of mine.
[9:53]So who, we grew up calling each other numbers, why name my dog after her, but yeah.
[10:00]No. But anyway, okay, it was rejected 90 times. Yeah, yeah, 98 times. And then I, you know, you can't
[10:07]really give up with writing. You have to just keep going. And so I started this other novel. And
[10:12]this character had actually been in it yet another novel, but as a minor character. So I felt like
[10:19]that day, she was sitting there saying, tell my story. So I did. And it, you know, it was great for
[10:26]me to be able to just sit there and and listen to what she had to say, which was a lot.
[10:32]Wow. So then how long did this whole process take you? Oh, forever. You know, I keep forgetting
[10:38]exactly how long this was. I think it really took me about five years to write the book. You know,
[10:43]how does your well, you know, because you've got kids and you're working full time. And how do
[10:48]you do all of this stuff? I, I applaud women who I don't know how you're doing it because you're like
[10:55]the busy. I love you're so busy and you're able to do all this stuff. And you have a publishing
[11:00]company too. It's like, oh, that is a lot. I mean, that is amazing. So good for you. But yeah,
[11:06]it took me about five years. And then, you know, it takes a while once you sell it, then you have to
[11:11]go through the whole publishing process and all that. So yeah, I mean, I'll told like seven years.
[11:17]Wow. So how do you feel with it coming out? I feel fantastic.
[11:22]Well, scared and fantastic. It's just a dream come true for me, honestly. It really is. Yeah.
[11:28]Congratulations. So fun. Thank you. Thank you. So what did you do while you were waiting for this
[11:35]to come out? Like, how are you? Did you ever revive the other novel? Did you start a new novel?
[11:40]Like what? Yeah, I started a new novel. But the pre-publication promotion on this has been so
[11:46]intense that I haven't, I shouldn't even say this. I haven't worked on that for like five.
[11:56]But yeah, I'm really excited about that one too. I really love already the protagonist of that
[12:02]novel. And I love some of the characters. So I know I can feel them. I'm one of those people. I
[12:07]don't write from an outline, but I can hear the characters talk to me. And so I just have to be
[12:13]around to listen to them. So are you one, are you one of those people who you go on a walk? And
[12:20]that's when you hear all your voices or inspiration? Like, does it, does it come throughout the day?
[12:25]Or are you like at your desk? And then it comes through your fingertips?
[12:31]Yeah, you know what I do. I mean, this sounds, I hate to make it sound so, you know,
[12:37]it sounds very magical in a way. And it's not, I picked up this technique from copyrighting.
[12:44]Where I would have a problem in copy, which was frequent, trying to think of some sort of concept.
[12:50]And I would go to bed and think about, I have to solve this problem and then let my brain work
[12:56]on it. And then it wake up at 3 a.m. And I'd write down the solution. And then when I actually
[13:01]got up and looked at it, it would either be like, oh my god, you're a genius or it would be,
[13:06]oh my god, stop waking up at 3. So that's what I do with my character. Sometimes they
[13:13]appear to me and start talking. And, you know, everything sounds so much better in the dream
[13:19]that it does on paper. So I do a lot of rewriting a lot. That's fun too, though. I mean, it can be
[13:24]fun sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what was it? What was the selling process like for this book
[13:31]versus your last one? Were you scared going into it after the rejections? Like, or did you
[13:36]know, I'm confident or was it like, well, I didn't have to sell it. That was the bizarre thing
[13:41]to me. We had been transferred here to London. And I didn't, I didn't know anybody in London.
[13:48]So, yeah, it was kind of lonely. And I took this online writing course at Curtis Brown. It was
[13:53]just right to the end of your novel. And for me, of course, you know, I don't really expect it to
[13:58]teach me how to write. But I love the support of the other writers. And so I was on this online course
[14:04]and I did not write to the end of my novel. But I really liked the instructor who was Anna Davis.
[14:10]And I liked what she had to say. It was just really sensible about writing. And I can be very
[14:16]idiotic about writing. So that was very helpful. And then I decided to try to get into their in-person
[14:23]writing group, which was just three months long, one night of week. And I got into that because I
[14:28]wanted to meet people in London. And I, you know, suddenly I was in this group of writers. And
[14:34]it's nice to be around writers. You know, we all kind of have this personality of
[14:39]I'm going to be rejected. Life is really hard. You know, I love the sad facts. You know,
[14:45]oh great, we're all in one room. But it was a really great group of people. And I still hadn't
[14:50]finished my book. But I was, I was getting closer. I was about two-thirds of the way through.
[14:55]At the end of that course at Curtis Brown, they throw a little party for you. And some of the
[14:59]agents came. And this woman, Felicity Blunt, came up to me. And she said, I love your book.
[15:07]And she signed me before it was done. It was a very, very happy story. Yeah, did not accept
[15:15]expect that. I mean, I have to tell you, I was so excited after she signed me, even though it
[15:22]wasn't done, that on the way back from her office, I accidentally dialed the emergency number
[15:28]on my phone. My phone was in my pocket. And I didn't realize what I'd done. But there's this,
[15:33]you know, on the Apple phone, call emergency. Anyway, I did. And I didn't know. And then
[15:38]suddenly my phone was ringing. And I thought, well, who was this? And it was just said emergency.
[15:45]And then it was an emergency operating team. Man, as there was an emergency,
[15:48]we're calling you back. And I said, oh, I just got an agent. And she said, well, good for you.
[15:56]Have a nice day. Oh, anyway, it was a good day. It was a good day.
[16:04]That's amazing. I just love it. Tell me about more of like the chemistry food cooking side of the
[16:10]book and your own familiarity with all of that. Did you research any of that? Like, did you know
[16:16]about it? Do you love to cook? Tell me all about that. Okay. I had to teach myself the chemistry.
[16:22]I'm not a scientist. And I kind of liked doing it. I used a textbook from the 1950s. And that
[16:29]that turned out to be really smart to do, but also frustrating. Because, you know, science marches
[16:35]on. And so I like to use a lot of metaphors in my writing. And occasionally, I would write a
[16:40]metaphor. And I would explain what was happening happening chemically. And then I realized that one
[16:46]of the interactions had not been discovered until 1968. And I'd have to scrap it. So I learned,
[16:54]I will say I learned basic chemistry. I'm definitely not a chemist. I did have two chemists,
[16:59]two PhD chemists read it and make sure that it was right. Yeah. And in terms of cooking,
[17:06]I mean, this is also a little bit embarrassing. I'm not a great cook. I don't even say I'd like to cook,
[17:12]but I love people who cook well. And I have so much respect for them. And to me, it's really an
[17:19]art. And so I know people who cook well. And they say, you know, it's nothing. And to me, it's not
[17:25]nothing. They've done something that's very creative, but also extremely scientific. And they've
[17:31]the great thing about cooking, which I don't really think most people think about when they go into
[17:36]the kitchen. But I think about this now every day, which is when you apply heat to something,
[17:43]you're you're igniting a chemical interaction. And because of that chemical interaction,
[17:48]you're breaking bonds, and then you're creating new bonds. And then you put it on a plate,
[17:53]and you put it on your table, and you call that dinner. You have created something that no one
[17:58]else has ever created. You can follow a recipe if you want, but yours will always be a little bit
[18:04]different. And that's because your ingredients will be different. And your taste buds will be
[18:09]different as you taste it. It's always an experiment, but you are always, always a chemist in the
[18:15]kitchen. I love that. My husband is like an amazing cook. I talk about it all the time, but because
[18:20]I'm so grateful. I know me too. But I watch him do it. And it tastes so good. And you know, he's
[18:28]not even like stressed out about it. And I feel like when I try, you know, I can follow a recipe,
[18:34]because you know, I'm a relatively intelligent person, and I can read it. So, you know, I think
[18:38]any, but I can't improvise. And I always wished I could be one of those people who could just like
[18:44]grab all the ingredients. Like, what do I have? What am I going to make? But no, that's me too.
[18:49]I don't, my husband, I always say we get, we trade off every other night cooking. And that means,
[18:55]you know, every other night we get a great meal. And I always feel like, here you go. But for me,
[19:00]I read a recipe. And then I start to put it in the oven. And then I read that last line that says
[19:05]marinade overnight. Oh, God. You know, I never read it all the way through. So, whatever. Yeah.
[19:12]But yeah, I just, I just really have so much respect for people like your husband. And like
[19:17]mine, who can cook like that because that's not me. Yeah. And what about the being in like on camera
[19:23]and doing a show? Is there, is that something you'd ever wanted to do yourself or or never?
[19:29]Never? Absolutely not. I know this is, it's so funny. You know how people say right what you know,
[19:35]I just never do that. I think part of that is from being a copywriter. You have to immerse yourself
[19:40]in a thousand different products and companies and people. You never write what you know.
[19:45]And what I love is that exploration and writing and learning new things. No, I would never
[19:51]never want to be. Have a cooking show or be on television like that. I don't think I could handle it too well.
[20:00]me who was this like yesterday. This is shows you how my mind is working these days. But
[20:05]how they would never want to write memoir because that would just be like reliving what they
[20:09]already knew versus escaping into new worlds is what attracts them to writing. So that's so interesting.
[20:15]Yeah. I think that's, yeah. Yeah. That really kind of nails it for me, I think. That's really,
[20:20]that's that's sort of how I look at it too. Yeah. I feel like all of us is in this game.
[20:26]I feel like if you're in your into tapping into that interior voice and you're like having a
[20:32]relationship with the computer in a way, right? You in the face. Exactly. And you're already out of
[20:37]whatever's going on outside of this little ecosystem here. But oh, I know. I don't know. Even
[20:44]frankly, right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So do you, well, first of all, did you consider doing
[20:51]something like casting an Elizabeth and doing a sample show as like some accompaniment to this
[20:58]in, you know, like having, I know you have the trailer, which is amazing. I don't know. I could just
[21:04]see like, it's just so visual. I wanted to see an episode. I wanted to watch like what does she do?
[21:09]Well, you, you, you well, definitely because it's being made into a series.
[21:14]And yeah, Brie Larson is starring as Elizabeth Sock. And it will be on an Apple TV series.
[21:22]Oh, my gosh. So it's sorry. I didn't know that. I must have known that.
[21:25]Oh, no. And I am so sorry. Sometimes I know I mean, I sometimes don't even believe those words
[21:32]when I say the Mala. So don't worry because all the time I feel like I need to wake up soon and
[21:39]realize I imagine this whole thing. But they're starting production. They're starting to shoot in
[21:45]summer. And it will be released next summer, hopefully. That's so exciting. So where you have
[21:51]had, did you get to adapt it or had how involved were you? I'm not involved too much. I talk with
[21:58]the writer, the main writer. And then, you know, I at the time at that when I first talked to all
[22:04]these production companies about them adapting this book, some of them want to make a movie
[22:09]and some of them wanted to make an ongoing series and have separate six at the at the center
[22:15]of each episode. But I really thought as a limited series, basically because of how the book ends.
[22:22]So anyway, that's how it's been developed, which I feel really good about eight episodes each
[22:27]an hour long. And then Brie Larson asked for an exclusive read and then asked if she could be
[22:35]Elizabeth thought, basically. And, you know, she, we had this, she's amazing. We had this really
[22:41]nice zoom visit. And I, I felt like, you know, we were getting engaged, you know, like,
[22:47]will you, will you play my character? Okay. It was really, she's just great. So I feel, you know,
[22:54]extremely lucky. And yeah, I'm going to go to this set this summer and watch some filming.
[23:01]Where are they, where are they going to shoot it? Well, I based the book in southern California
[23:08]because that's where I grew up. And so they're shooting it there. And I think that's,
[23:12]that's kind of nice for actors and people who live there, they don't have to travel.
[23:17]You know, they don't home for dinner. So it'll be, yeah, that's where it's, it's being shot.
[23:22]My husband just, he's a producer and they just shot a movie in LA and it was great because he
[23:27]we have a, we have a place there. So he could just like stay home and go to the set and then
[23:32]come back home at night. Oh, that's amazing. Can, can you say what movie it is? Yes. It's called
[23:38]Wildflower. And it's really great. It's a dark comedy, a dark coming of age comedy about a girl
[23:44]raising her mentally disabled parents. But it's really, it's funny. And it's fabulous. It's really
[23:48]fabulous. Oh, it sounds wonderful. I love that. Or whatever you want to call it. Oh, yeah. I don't
[23:54]even know now they keep coming back with tiny tweaks. He's like, what? This one. And I'm like,
[23:58]I can't watch that. I can't tell it's different. Yeah. Show me the end product. But yeah,
[24:03]I got to go to the set. It was really cool. I actually have a cameo in the movie as an English
[24:08]science teacher actually on brand for this book. But yeah. Oh, that's great. Oh, congratulations.
[24:14]Oh, fun. That's fun. But you'll have, you'll have such a blast. It's going to be. Yeah. Wow.
[24:19]Yeah. I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah. So it's, yeah, it'll be fun. It's just
[24:24]this whole thing is, you know, come to life like this. And I would have never, ever predicted it,
[24:30]ever because I, I'm, I'm much, much more like the, we call our writing group, the baby seals,
[24:37]because we're used to being clubbed to death, you know? And, and so, you know, yeah, it's really
[24:43]interesting not to have that club like, oh, you know, this isn't good or whatever. Yeah.
[24:50]Yeah. How are the other people, how are the other people in the writing group doing?
[24:55]Well, we have a couple of people who are signed by agents and two of the other people have
[25:00]booked out. Wow. Exciting. Yeah. Well, tell everybody to think about some of your books. Send us some,
[25:05]send us your book. Yeah. Of course I will. Of course I will. Amazing. And just
[25:11]out of curiosity. So what do you like to read? Do you like to read? I'm assuming you like to read,
[25:15]but I shouldn't. No, I hate to read. No, I'm kidding. I love to read. I read all the time.
[25:20]When I'm writing fiction now, I switch to nonfiction because I don't know. I just, I can't
[25:25]enter somebody else's world too closely. But I will say I finished this book by a fellow
[25:32]trans world author here at London. And it's called, well, I have it sitting right here. It's called
[25:37]the second site of Zachary, Cloud's Lee. If you like, this is a cross, I think it's brilliant.
[25:44]It's coming out in June. And that's the arc. And it's a cross between Dickens and Harry Potter.
[25:53]And I don't know. There's this feminist character. It's just, it's so good. I can see this one
[26:00]being show this to your husband. It's really, really good. Awesome. That's great. What advice do you
[26:08]you have for aspiring authors? Rewrite as much as you can stand because that's where you're
[26:14]really going to develop your voice and look rejection in the eye and just know it's part of it.
[26:21]It's part of the game. And we all end up feeling kind of kicked around and beaten up at the end of
[26:26]the day. But it makes you so much stronger and just don't give up. I'm living proof to lock your
[26:33]Oh my gosh. Well, Bonnie, congratulations. I'm so excited for you. It's just so great. And
[26:40]knowing now, it's a series. I mean, this is such fantastic news. And it's so well written.
[26:45]And it's just, it's really exciting. That's all. Well, I really appreciate this. I was so excited
[26:52]when they said, oh, I'm supposed to have you on her podcast. Oh my god. You have a tremendous,
[26:58]I know. I love your podcast. So I'm, I'm so excited. Thank you. That means so much. Thank you.
[27:04]Oh, it's one. And I love the, the books and the color behind you. It's
[27:08]thank you. Beautiful. And it's like all the way around the room. Yeah, because all the way around
[27:13]the room. Oh, so you actually sorted them by color. Mm-hmm. I, uh, sorry. I told this story.
[27:21]But yeah, I had COVID about a year ago. And after spending like nine days in bed, I hadn't seen
[27:26]anybody else. So I came in here and I took every book out of these shelves and put them on the floor
[27:32]like I was in a beautiful mind or something. And then I started with one shelf. And actually, I started
[27:36]because I used to have my books horizontal. And my husband said, you know, because I was starting
[27:41]to run out of room. He said, you'd have a lot more room if you put them vertical. Yeah.
[27:44]I'm up vertically. And I was like, no, I wouldn't. He's like, try one shelf. So I did the one shelf.
[27:50]And I grabbed all the white books and like, okay, first of all, he was right as he always is,
[27:55]even though I find it all the time. So he was right. And we fit more books. And then I thought,
[28:00]oh, well, why don't I just like mix and match in the next shelf? I'll make this color. And then,
[28:03]you know, hours and hours and hours. Yeah. On a step stool. It was like a whole production. But
[28:09]yeah, it stayed sort of untouched over there. It is. It's just beautiful. I love it. I love it. It's
[28:16]such a clever idea. You know, and now you know, I mean, sorting books by cover, I worked in a book
[28:22]store for a very short period of time. And how many people come in and they go, I'm looking for
[28:26]this book. And I don't remember the author's name. I don't remember the title, but the coverage green,
[28:31]you know, that's how I think about that. That's how I look for them. And I don't know. That's
[28:37]just how I might. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's gorgeous. Well, if you're ever in New York, come on over.
[28:42]And I'll be being here in age. Oh, great. I'll be here. All right. That would be great. I'd love to
[28:50]meet you in person. Anyway, thank you so much. Okay. Well, thank you for coming. And I still like.
[28:55]We'll stay in touch. Okay. Thank you. So bye. Bye bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of
[29:01]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibioens and at
[29:06]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibioens.com and sign up for
[29:11]my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve
[29:16]and Ryan in fact, texture sound for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon
[29:20]Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.