Jennifer Haupt, COME AS YOU ARE: A Novel
[0:01]Hi, this is Vivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast.
[0:05]Moms don't have time to read books.
[0:07]And speaking of books, I have two of my own books coming out this spring and summer.
[0:12]Princess Charming is a picture book, which debuts on April 19th, and bookends, a memoir
[0:18]of love, loss, and literature.
[0:20]Comes out on July 1st, and it is truly a labor of love.
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[0:41]Hey everyone, I need your help.
[0:43]If you love this podcast, you will love my children's book.
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[0:55]for the whole book's trajectory.
[0:57]So please pre-order Princess Charming, which comes out April 19th today.
[1:03]Just stop what you're doing and go do that, please.
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[1:11]a grandchild, a child, a student, a kid walking by on the street, anybody.
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[2:28]Thank you so much.
[2:29]Bye.
[2:30]Jennifer Hopped is the author of Come As You Are.
[2:33]She's also the author of The Novels in the Shadow of 10,000 Hills and Come As You Are,
[2:37]which I just said.
[2:38]She's also the editor of Alone Together, Love, Grief and Comfort in the Time of COVID-19,
[2:44]an anthology which is raised over $40,000 for the book industry charitable foundation
[2:49]and was awarded the 2021 Washington State Book Award for General Nonfiction.
[2:54]Jennifer's essays and articles have been widely published and her popular psychology today
[2:58]blog is a collection of essays and interviews for authors and readers.
[3:02]And by the way, she excerpted one of the essays from My Anthology in her psychology today
[3:07]blog, which is super nice.
[3:09]Welcome to Jennifer.
[3:10]I just say welcome.
[3:11]Thank you.
[3:12]I have to say it's really a thrill to meet you, Zibi.
[3:15]I so admire you and appreciate what you do for authors and readers.
[3:19]So thank you.
[3:20]Oh, that's a nice way to say.
[3:22]I feel the same way.
[3:23]I mean, I was reading your Alone Together anthology and reading about all the money
[3:28]you raised for bank and how amazing that was and all the stuff for psychology today and
[3:33]it's amazing.
[3:34]And now your book, Come As You Are, you have a lot going on.
[3:37]It's great.
[3:38]Thanks.
[3:39]So why don't we start with The Novel because, you know, why not?
[3:44]Can you tell everybody a little bit about Come As You Are and how you came up with these
[3:49]characters?
[3:50]Why this time of year, like not year, this time of life for these.
[3:54]Why go back to adolescence and how we how you arrived at this at this back?
[3:59]Sure.
[4:00]Well, the story centers on Sky and Zane, two lonely teens drawn together by their dreams
[4:04]and their love of music.
[4:06]He wants to become a singer-songwriter and she wants to become an artist like many teenagers
[4:11]and they're inseparable for five years, coming of age against the backdrop of the Seattle
[4:16]Grunge music scene in the early 90s.
[4:19]And then a horrible accident that sort of wrapped in a mystery bonds them together in a way
[4:24]they never wanted and forces them into a pack to protect each other.
[4:29]They end up moving to LA and search for their dreams, but the haunting secret they share
[4:34]tears them apart and has a part of the family their desperate to build.
[4:38]So then fast forward six years where the story actually begins and skies raising Montana,
[4:44]their daughter alone in Albuquerque and Zane shows up in her life after six years of nothing.
[4:51]And they're forced to face the truth about their past and their love for the sake of
[4:55]their daughter.
[4:56]So the story is really about reconciling the past to build a better future for our children
[5:02]and that we give up as parents and the new ones that take their place in a nutshell.
[5:08]What dreams do you feel like you had to give up to the parent?
[5:11]That's a really good question and I actually feel like, you know, I wanted to be a writer,
[5:18]a novelist from the time I can remember in like third grade my teacher, my miss coin giving
[5:25]me back this like three page story I wrote written online paper in pencil with a big
[5:30]eight plus at the top and I still remember how thrilled I was and that dream kind of got
[5:35]buried because, you know, you just think, well, you know, who really becomes a writer,
[5:39]right?
[5:40]Like, who actually does that?
[5:43]So it wasn't just 45 that I wrote my first novel, which kind of tells you how old I
[5:47]am now, but it was like, yeah, I spent a lot of time raising my kids and doing writing,
[5:56]but writing more just kind of for money writing like for publicity and brand building.
[6:01]And then I went to Rwanda as a reporter and found an amazing story and spent 10 years
[6:07]learning how to be a novelist.
[6:09]So, wow.
[6:11]I feel like even, well, how do you learn how to be a novelist in 10 years, even in even
[6:15]like a hundred years, some people can't be a novelist?
[6:17]Well, so fortunately and unfortunately, I thought I was really good when I first started
[6:23]and because I had friends who were also writing for women's magazines like I was and
[6:28]they were selling novels and I was like, okay, if they can do it, I can do it.
[6:33]And to your writing my novel and send it off to agents and found out it actually sucked.
[6:39]So, and I spent another probably seven years doing things like going to Sawani and others
[6:46]writer, writer's sort of treats and taking a lot of classes at Hugo House here in Seattle
[6:52]where I now teach.
[6:54]And it took me about seven years to really learn the craft of it.
[6:58]And honestly, I'm still learning all the time, which is like the good and the bad thing
[7:04]about being a novelist, right?
[7:05]Like you never really perfect it too.
[7:08]I mean, anything with writing, right?
[7:10]I feel like anything I read that I've ever written.
[7:13]I'm like, oh my gosh, I would do it again like this to do it.
[7:17]Yeah, exactly.
[7:18]I'm coming to Seattle this summer.
[7:19]I'm very excited.
[7:20]I just decided, yes, I just said, oh, we're going to come.
[7:22]I'm going to go with my husband.
[7:23]I haven't been since, I don't know, high school or college, something like that.
[7:27]So, yeah, I'm excited.
[7:28]I want to do all the literary things.
[7:30]So, yeah.
[7:31]I mean, you know, with like suggestions and stuff because Seattle this summer is so great.
[7:37]Awesome.
[7:38]I can't wait.
[7:39]Okay.
[7:40]So you go to all these classes and learn to write and your first novel comes out and
[7:43]all of that stuff.
[7:44]And all of a sudden you're not just a mom, quote unquote, but you're now a published
[7:49]author.
[7:50]Like what did that feel like?
[7:51]Well, actually, it was a huge disappointment I have to say to you because I do not expect
[7:59]you to say that.
[8:00]I felt like well, I had such high expectations.
[8:05]And for me, it was all about getting that first book published.
[8:08]You know, like that was going to change my life.
[8:12]And it didn't.
[8:13]And, you know, the view student, the book sales student and, you know, the author events,
[8:19]some of them like two people showed up.
[8:21]And some of my best author events were really when like two people showed up and we just
[8:24]talked about writing.
[8:26]And that's when I figured out really that I wanted to teach and that the success is
[8:31]really in the process.
[8:34]And that's something that I am really trying to hold on to now with my second novel coming
[8:39]out because it's, you know, I'm working on my third novel.
[8:44]And I feel like every day it's really important, even if it's only for like an hour
[8:49]to really pay attention to what's important and to the process.
[8:54]And I think for moms who have young kids who want to be a novelist or want to, you
[8:59]know, paint or want to, you know, be a master gardener.
[9:03]It's really important to just know that, you know, this time with your kids is really important,
[9:09]but it's also important to have some space for yourself to keep those dreams alive.
[9:16]Someday they're going to like be older and not one of anything to do with you.
[9:20]And then you're going to have tons of time, right?
[9:23]So nothing but writing time.
[9:25]Yeah.
[9:26]Yes, I would say also to those people to take because I sort of am one of those people
[9:30]but to take lots of notes because I feel like even when my kids were little, I was like,
[9:34]oh, I'll totally remember this for when I want to write about this stage.
[9:37]And now I'm like, I don't remember anything.
[9:40]Exactly.
[9:41]Well, and like, I know you have a children's book coming out and I remember writing
[9:45]stories about a zebra and like, I can't even remember the other animal, but their
[9:50]names were Bobo and Zozo with my then five-year-old son and him like rolling on the floor
[9:56]with laughter because Bobo was putting
[10:00]you know, like the dog and the refrigerator or something.
[10:03]Where did I put those stories?
[10:05]Because I still want to read them again.
[10:08]Totally.
[10:09]Yeah.
[10:10]One other thing I just wanted to say was, you know,
[10:13]now that my kids, my kids are 29 and 32,
[10:18]I can really see where they pay attention to what you do
[10:23]and they pay attention to what you've done
[10:27]even when they were younger.
[10:29]And you know, I feel like me showing them
[10:32]that it's important for me to really follow my passion
[10:36]has transferred into them doing the same thing,
[10:39]which is really cool to see.
[10:41]That is really cool.
[10:42]That's amazing.
[10:43]Yeah, I hope I communicate that to my kids.
[10:46]If nothing else, you know, that I love what I do so much,
[10:49]that I hope they find the right thing.
[10:50]Although then sometimes I worry, you know,
[10:52]it's like parents who are madly in love
[10:54]and then you go on and you can't get married.
[10:55]You know, like people like that, that wasn't my experience,
[10:57]but I hear about people like that.
[10:59]Maybe it works the other way too, but nevermind.
[11:02]So you don't have any of them.
[11:03]No, there are things you can't control, obviously.
[11:05]Yes, but I do think they pay attention
[11:08]and they, you know, the things you do
[11:11]to take care of yourself help them
[11:13]to take care of themselves when they're older.
[11:15]That's a really good point.
[11:16]Dear kids like to write.
[11:18]Yeah, well, my younger son does for sure.
[11:20]My older son is a reader, not really a writer,
[11:22]but my younger son writes in journals all the time.
[11:26]And I know he writes poetry that he will not show me.
[11:30]Which is good, you know,
[11:32]everyone should have their own stuff
[11:33]that they don't need to show anyone else, I think.
[11:36]So you teach at Hugo House
[11:38]and you have your column telling me about the psychology today,
[11:41]how you got involved with that.
[11:43]That was really, so I started writing a column
[11:46]for psychology today with blog.
[11:48]I was supposed to be about finding your faith
[11:49]because I was going to write a book
[11:51]about finding my faith at age 40.
[11:55]Well, maybe it's even, yeah, I think it's 40.
[11:58]And that really didn't hand out in terms of,
[12:01]it didn't feel authentic, it didn't feel like
[12:03]I really had that much to say to people,
[12:06]but I was getting to know a bunch of writers
[12:09]who like had a bunch of things to say.
[12:11]And I don't remember, I think when the first people
[12:14]I interviewed for my blog was Danny Shapiro
[12:17]who had so much to say about faith and so forth.
[12:21]And so then I just started seeking out other authors
[12:24]who I kind of just wanted to get to know.
[12:27]And as a reporter, I had a really good excuse
[12:30]to interview people and to find out, you know,
[12:33]how do you define faith and how does that
[12:36]transfer to your creativity and all sorts of things?
[12:39]And it just kind of grew from there.
[12:41]Wow, very cool.
[12:42]And then back to the anthology.
[12:44]So you wrote in the book itself about how,
[12:48]about where you, how you got inspired to write that,
[12:51]not just write it yourself,
[12:52]but collect all these things from other authors,
[12:55]which I did the same thing as you know,
[12:57]because we talked about this before.
[12:58]But your motivation and part was to help out the booksellers
[13:01]and that you were very concerned about them.
[13:03]And I didn't even think about that.
[13:05]I mean, I did, but my first thing was the authors
[13:07]and then I had donated my proceeds to helping with COVID research,
[13:11]not that my donation made difference,
[13:13]but whatever.
[13:14]Tell me about your, that project for you.
[13:16]Well, I had friends who were doing things
[13:20]with fundraising with their writing skills
[13:23]in terms of like Jessica Keener and Jenna Bloom
[13:26]and some other people I knew were offering,
[13:30]like writing coaching and then the money they donated to,
[13:34]honestly, I can't remember what charity,
[13:35]but it was, I think it was something around immigrants.
[13:38]I appreciate it.
[13:39]And so that's stuck in my mind.
[13:42]And I thought, and then also at the time,
[13:45]Jenna and Caroline Levitt were launching a Mighty Blaze.
[13:48]That is such a cool thing to get readers and writers
[13:52]all in a community together.
[13:55]And I had received a letter of Christmas time
[13:59]from Gartstein asking other writers to contribute to Pink,
[14:03]which is an organization, as you know,
[14:05]that used grants to booksellers in need.
[14:08]And I thought, well, this is something I could do.
[14:11]I know a lot of writers.
[14:12]I have a big network.
[14:14]And so I put a call out on Facebook
[14:17]and I said, is anyone else,
[14:18]this is on COVID first broke out?
[14:20]And we had some wonderful things going on with the government.
[14:24]And I was like, is anyone else feeling sort of powerless?
[14:28]And you know, wanting to do something
[14:30]to make some sort of difference for booksellers
[14:33]that have supported us all these years.
[14:36]And I got such a great response.
[14:38]And so I collected essays and poems from authors
[14:42]and then I also did some interviews
[14:44]and put together this book really in the shape of a novel
[14:47]of a story of, you know, kind of the beginning of COVID
[14:52]and then things people are going through
[14:54]and then what next and how can we come together as a country?
[14:57]So it became not just stories of COVID,
[14:59]but stories of how do we, you know,
[15:02]get back to being like one America again.
[15:06]Yeah, it was really, really good experience.
[15:09]It was great going back and reading the essays
[15:11]and being in that sort of frame of mind again
[15:14]especially some of the interviews
[15:16]that you have like transcribed and everything.
[15:18]That was very just so great to see
[15:19]what were people thinking then like what's it like now?
[15:23]How far we've come and all of that and so.
[15:26]Yeah. Yeah.
[15:27]And it really, I really wanted to get
[15:29]just voices from all different walks of life
[15:32]just to show and not just best-selling authors,
[15:34]but there were some people who were students of mine
[15:38]who had been published before.
[15:40]And so it was really nice for me to be able
[15:41]to bring sort of a group of people together
[15:45]that wouldn't necessarily have had their work
[15:47]in the same place.
[15:49]Just saying.
[15:50]And by the way, I shouldn't have said before,
[15:51]I'm going to go, I said I hadn't even thought about
[15:53]the booksellers.
[15:53]That's not true.
[15:54]And actually I did support bank myself,
[15:56]but I just meant when I was doing my anthology,
[15:58]that wasn't part of it.
[15:59]But I just wanted to throw that out there
[16:01]that I wasn't just like not thinking about booksellers
[16:03]because of that.
[16:04]Oh, I think everyone knows that you're thinking
[16:05]about booksellers a lot.
[16:07]OK, OK, OK, and just wanted to make sure
[16:09]it sounded so bad when I came out of my mouth.
[16:11]It's just out.
[16:12]So what is your daily life like now?
[16:18]How much time are you writing?
[16:19]How much time are you?
[16:20]Like what is your process like when you're writing all of that?
[16:23]Well, I know I deepened revisions, which I love.
[16:26]So for me, it takes about 10 years to write a book.
[16:29]And the first couple of years, I have to be, well,
[16:33]really, really involved.
[16:35]Like I usually spend like three hours in the morning,
[16:37]three hours in the afternoon, and then an hour at night
[16:40]to set up what I'm going to do the next day.
[16:42]But at the point I'm at now with revisions,
[16:44]it's really fun because I can just spend like an hour or two
[16:48]and really look at what works and what doesn't.
[16:52]And when I get to the point where I'm like, oh, my gosh,
[16:54]this is actually good.
[16:56]That's like a fun point.
[16:57]So I'm also gardening and cooking and dreaming
[17:02]about what I'm going to do next, looking
[17:05]forward to the summer when I can get together
[17:06]with friends more outside and going for long walks.
[17:09]and all that good stuff.
[17:11]And are you reading anything good?
[17:13]I am reading some good things.
[17:16]The book I love that I just finished is called,
[17:18]What a Fun Age.
[17:19]Oh, yeah.
[17:20]I love that book.
[17:21]That's a fun age.
[17:22]Such a fun age?
[17:23]Yes.
[17:23]Such a fun age.
[17:24]That's a fun age, yeah.
[17:26]And then my computer, my laptop is now
[17:28]on the top of the Lori Frankel's book.
[17:30]This is how it always is, which I am just a little bit into
[17:34]and I'll already really love.
[17:36]And then I just got in the mail, Amy Blooms,
[17:39]new book.
[17:40]It's a memoir.
[17:41]Have you, R.J. Julia, sent, like,
[17:43]they're doing an event or something with her.
[17:45]Maybe Roxanne Cody is having her on her podcast.
[17:48]But I hadn't known about that book until I read it.
[17:49]And I was like, oh, my gosh, I have to get this book.
[17:51]Nobody's pitched me yet.
[17:52]What's going on?
[17:53]People?
[17:54]No, anyway, I have to look it up.
[17:55]But it looks so good.
[17:56]Oh, my gosh.
[17:57]But they're called love and love or something
[17:59]or in loss or something or something
[18:01]love, words, but love me, love and love and love.
[18:06]Anyway, it's so embarrassing.
[18:09]She's an amazing writer.
[18:11]And I've only read the first two pages so far
[18:13]because I just got it last night.
[18:15]And I'm interviewing her next week.
[18:16]And it's about when her husband had Alzheimer's.
[18:19]Yeah.
[18:20]I mean, not Alzheimer's.
[18:21]No, I think it was.
[18:22]Yeah, Alzheimer's, Alzheimer's.
[18:23]And I don't want to say anything else
[18:25]because it's just the first couple pages.
[18:29]And you'll be like, oh, my God.
[18:31]So yeah, that's how we get that I have to get.
[18:34]Did it come out yet or not yet?
[18:36]It's about on March 8th.
[18:38]OK, soon on.
[18:39]Yeah, I'm going to get this.
[18:41]Amazing.
[18:42]OK, what advice do you have for aspiring authors?
[18:44]My advice is right every day, even if it's only 15 minutes.
[18:50]And get yourself a little notebook that you love.
[18:53]And I call it my process notebook.
[18:55]And it's like the diary of your novel.
[18:59]It's not your diary, even as it's just the diary of your novel.
[19:03]And so it's exercises you can do
[19:06]for creating your character, like interview your characters,
[19:10]think just write about setting and so forth.
[19:13]Because and fill up that notebook before you do anything else.
[19:17]Because it's so daunting to open up your computer
[19:21]and have this blank page.
[19:23]And so do the work, do the foundation work
[19:27]before you get down to doing the manuscript.
[19:30]I like that.
[19:30]Then it's never really blank.
[19:32]It always have something to come through up there.
[19:34]Exactly.
[19:35]Love it.
[19:36]Jennifer, thank you.
[19:37]This was so fun.
[19:38]Thanks for everything, for talking about come as you are.
[19:42]And all of your great stuff.
[19:44]If listeners want to find you, where is the best place?
[19:46]Where should they find you?
[19:47]Best place to find me online is my website.
[19:50]And that's just JenniferHaupt.com.
[19:52]And I'm on Facebook, but I'm not on another social media.
[19:55]So yeah.
[19:57]So that's when you're in your psychology today blog.
[20:00]and my psychology today blog, which is called One True Thing.
[20:03]And thank you so much, Debbie.
[20:05]It was such a pleasure talking to you.
[20:06]Thanks you, too.
[20:07]All right, bye.
[20:08]Bye, bye.
[20:09]Bye, bye.
[20:11]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[20:13]to Read Books.
[20:14]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens
[20:17]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[20:19]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com
[20:22]and sign up for my virtual book club
[20:24]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[20:26]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[20:28]In fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[20:30]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[20:32]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.