Kate Baer, I HOPE THIS FINDS YOU WELL: Poems
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[0:41]Kate Bear is the author of I Hope This Finds You Well, Pullums.
[0:45]Her first book, What Kind of Woman, was a number one New York Times instant bestseller, and
[0:49]featured in publications such as Harper's Bizarre, Vogue.com, and The Chicago Review.
[0:54]She is based on the East Coast and is an author and poet.
[0:57]Her work has also been published in Romper, Lit Hub, and The New York Times.
[1:01]Welcome, Kate.
[1:02]Thanks so much for coming on Moms.
[1:03]Don't have time to read books to discuss.
[1:05]I hope this finds you well, Pullums.
[1:07]Thank you.
[1:08]Thank you so much for having me.
[1:10]So Kate, you are the number one New York Times best-selling author of What Kind of Woman,
[1:15]and then you followed it up with something even better, perhaps, which is this very unique
[1:19]take on how to read, how to pull poetry out of sometimes the most distasteful prose that
[1:26]there could be, and sometimes just regular prose.
[1:29]But you have this gift of making art out of words, really.
[1:35]I mean, I guess that's what poetry comes down to.
[1:38]Tell listeners a little bit about how this started and this whole social media comment
[1:45]just explained it better than me, because I'm not doing a good job.
[1:48]Oh, sure.
[1:49]And also your bookshelf behind you is so beautiful.
[1:53]I know it's like a divisive topic on the internet about bookshelves, and if she should
[1:58]arrange them by color, but I do that.
[2:01]I love it.
[2:02]I think it looks really nice.
[2:03]Thank you.
[2:04]I hate to be nice.
[2:05]I hate to be divisive in any way, but I thought it was nice.
[2:09]It looks really nice.
[2:10]Yeah.
[2:11]So I hope this finds you well is kind of a surprise book for me.
[2:14]I wrote What Kind of Woman, and then signed a book deal for another collection of poetry
[2:21]that will be kind of like that.
[2:23]And then this one kind of popped up in between there.
[2:27]So it's been kind of wild to put this book out just because I didn't expect it.
[2:33]It really just started out on a whim.
[2:35]It felt like a party trick for a while, like, oh, sure, I can make some of these and
[2:40]read your poems.
[2:41]But it wasn't like, oh, I'd like to forget a whole book of them.
[2:45]I'm so thankful that people have been reading it and purchasing it or checking it out
[2:49]from the library.
[2:50]And I do like the result.
[2:54]I like the book, but writing it was kind of tricky and kind of fraught with lots of feelings.
[3:00]It was also like peak lockdown when I wrote it.
[3:03]And so there were times when all my kids were home.
[3:07]And I was trying to put this book together and homeschool them.
[3:10]Anyway, that's not what you asked me, but that's okay.
[3:12]I like that.
[3:13]Yeah.
[3:14]The initial erasure poetry kind of the beginning of that was right around when George
[3:20]Floyd was murdered.
[3:22]I was kind of posting about police reform and things like that, which I think a lot of people.
[3:27]It was such a contentious time, rightfully so.
[3:30]But I wasn't surprised that there were people kind of coming in to my messages.
[3:36]You know, arguing with me, that's that's pretty typical, but this one woman wrote to me.
[3:41]And I was kind of like looking through them and deleting them.
[3:44]And I was reading hers and it kind of stuck out to me in a new way.
[3:47]So I took a screenshot of it and hit her identity and then made a poem out of it and posted
[3:54]it really on a whim.
[3:55]There was no forethought, but just I just kind of did it.
[4:00]And the response to that was really strong, which I think proves, you know, how there are
[4:05]a lot of people at odds with other people in the internet.
[4:08]And then of course in your in real life with people you actually know.
[4:12]So yeah, I kind of just kept doing it because I couldn't stop.
[4:17]It was it started to become this thing where I would like see like poems like that everywhere,
[4:22]not just in my messages.
[4:25]And so I was posting some of those and was approached, you know, to do a book of that
[4:30]much.
[4:31]I did say no to a few times, but ultimately glad that it worked out well part of, I mean,
[4:37]a large part of this book is taking comments apart, right?
[4:40]And it's a commentary on comments, right?
[4:42]Yeah, commentary on the, the feeling that people have the right to just speak their minds
[4:48]about your most intimate work and that you should take the time to then read it.
[4:52]And some is good.
[4:53]And some comments were just ridiculous.
[4:55]I know that it's hard to keep a sort of thick skin, right?
[5:00]When you're writing for the public and everything, but how, how do you do it?
[5:05]Like is this the device you used to sort of like cope with the meanness out there?
[5:09]Or like when you write something beautiful and intimate and then somebody writes a comment
[5:14]that it's just not nice, like how, how do you even, how do you deal with it as like
[5:21]a modern day poet?
[5:22]I think they're for a brief period.
[5:25]It is how I helped with it.
[5:26]I was also writing this book.
[5:28]And so there was a time when I was getting these messages that I was like, great, could
[5:33]you use some more nouns?
[5:34]Could you use more adjectives like throw me a bone here?
[5:37]I'm trying to write a book and there was some, there was a bit of, I don't know, some
[5:41]cathartic moments writing it and, and certainly there have been times when I have felt
[5:46]like, okay, I got the last word.
[5:49]But in general, I don't find that being on the internet more helps with kind of the
[5:55]downtroddenness of it in general.
[5:57]I find that just getting off line and being with real people who know the real meat, which
[6:06]sounds kind of cliche, but that is the best coping mechanism not being on the internet
[6:12]more.
[6:13]Yes.
[6:14]Well, that makes total sense.
[6:15]Some of these I just wanted to, there's one about relentless motherhood, can I read this
[6:20]or is it too long to read?
[6:21]Can I read part of it at least?
[6:22]Oh, you're welcome to read anything short.
[6:25]This is on relentless motherhood.
[6:26]Hi, Kate.
[6:27]I got your lovely book of poems for Christmas and I barely had a moment to read them.
[6:30]See, I just had my second baby boy on 10, 29.
[6:34]We live in New Orleans and he was born right after Hurricane and days on end of the
[6:37]power being out.
[6:38]And then she goes on and she says, most days I can laugh about the fact that dirty divers
[6:41]are left on the kitchen table, but there is never a moment to think that my clothes are
[6:45]constantly covered in bodily fluids.
[6:47]But today I broke.
[6:48]It was actually my husband who broke first, ironically, in his haste and stress from the
[6:52]the shitty morning of parenting.
[6:54]He broke a picture frame and you talked about that.
[6:56]Then she talked about that rather and says, it's just another morning and a thousand
[7:00]mornings.
[7:01]It will probably all be forgotten tomorrow when there are new diapers to change and more
[7:04]ABCs to sing.
[7:05]But today it felt like too much.
[7:07]Enter your poems.
[7:08]I have stolen away to my room and when I read the line, nothing in this world can prepare
[7:13]you for this love suffering, for joy and loneliness.
[7:16]I started to cry.
[7:17]I felt seen.
[7:18]You put words to my day to my life as a mother.
[7:21]And it was so therapeutic to know I'm not alone in the agony and ecstasy of it all, that
[7:25]this blistering love for our babies and all that it entails.
[7:29]Thank you for your words.
[7:30]And then at the end, she says, also to clarify, my husband accidentally broke the picture
[7:34]frame because he was so fraveled.
[7:36]He's not a shithead.
[7:37]Anyways, thank you.
[7:38]And then you and your like erasure poems format translated that to I cried.
[7:44]It's just another morning, but it felt like agony and ecstasy, this blistering love and
[7:50]and all that it entails.
[7:51]That's just so awesome.
[7:53]I mean, it's just so cool.
[7:55]It's just so cool.
[7:56]Both both sides of this are so cool.
[7:59]Thank you.
[8:01]How do you feel like reading them back?
[8:03]How do you like, does this give you, do you get that same sense of calm with your
[8:07]own work that like you bestow on to others?
[8:09]Does it make you calm to write?
[8:11]I mean, to write and to read my own work feels like two totally different things.
[8:17]But when you read that, I felt emotional.
[8:21]I haven't read that since I put that in there so almost a year ago, I don't like read
[8:27]my own books and I don't ever read that one at events only because it's long.
[8:32]So I haven't heard that or spent any time with that piece or a year.
[8:37]Yeah.
[8:38]The last time I probably looked at it was last January, so that was really cool.
[8:41]Yeah.
[8:42]No, I don't.
[8:43]I've read my own work at all to feel a sense of calm or peace, but that was lovely.
[8:49]How did you realize you were a poet?
[8:51]Like where did this come from?
[8:52]I don't know.
[8:53]It's funny because my parents and maybe this is just something that parents say when I
[8:57]started to publish poetry, they were like, we always knew this.
[9:02]You know, they kind of again, this is something that maybe parents just say like this was
[9:07]always you.
[9:08]I mean, I was always writing poetry, but not in a professional sense, but I don't know
[9:13]for them.
[9:14]It felt like a full circle moment, maybe even more than I did for me.
[9:17]But yeah, I had always read it and written it, but not in a way like sharing it or trying
[9:24]to get it published or anything like that.
[9:27]So that is only recently, which has been a huge surprise because before this I was writing
[9:35]everything but poetry.
[9:36]So yeah, it's been fun.
[9:39]I do feel that this, that the format of poetry and the boiled down story telling is very
[9:46]much in my wheelhouse, not that I think, oh, I'm this incredible poet, but it's more the
[9:51]feeling of like, oh, this is this is how I like to tell a story.
[9:57]And what was your, what was it like growing up for?
[10:00]you? Did you write, I mean, your parents obviously saw this coming. So did you have a
[10:04]notebook in your hand most of the time? Like, where did writing fit in with your day-to-day
[10:08]life? Like, what was your, what was like a typical third grade, fifth grade? You
[10:13]like, what did you look like? Oh, my, I looked at such a dork, which is great. It's so
[10:21]wonderful to get to be an adult and look back at that and realize, wow, what a, for lack
[10:28]a better word, blessing to be such a dumb idiot kid. Like, I'm so glad I, I, I bloomed so late,
[10:36]you know, I'm so glad I get my period until I was high school. I played with dolls until like
[10:43]fifth grade. I was just, I was in dreamland, to be honest. And in second and third grade, especially,
[10:50]I was just so involved in my own imagination, but in a very egotistical way. I just, I was very
[10:58]much in my own bubble. And I was absolutely writing stories. Lots of stories, a lot of themes
[11:05]around cats. I don't know. I just, I think if it's not a particularly unique childhood to be like
[11:12]that, it's not that it's just, I look back at that and think, well, that was great. I'll
[11:18]great to be lost like that and just, you know, unaware that it's very uncool to write about cats
[11:26]and where cat jumpers. I mean, there are probably a lot of people out there who like, that's
[11:31]pretty cool. Yeah, totally, still cool to me. You have the other one I thought in this book that
[11:39]was so good. There was one about Donald Trump and you, I can't find it now, but on the right,
[11:46]you just wrote, just go. Oh, here, oh, here it is. We're leaving the White House from Donald
[11:52]Donald J. Trump to Mike Fett's. You can either go down in history as a patriot, Mr. Trump told
[11:57]him, according to two people briefed on the conversation, or you can go down in history as a pussy.
[12:01]And then on the other side, the words you took out, you just wrote, you can go.
[12:06]Yeah, those are the pun ones to write online. Yeah. Do you find yourself doing this still?
[12:13]Like these erasure, do you, there is this like, okay, I'm done here, but like,
[12:19]did you like look at text now? Because now I feel like I'm going to start looking at text and
[12:22]learning to try to do what you're doing. Oh, totally. I do still do it. I don't, I like to say,
[12:28]I'm no longer taking submissions. Like I don't want it. I don't want a few ones mean messages,
[12:34]but by any means, but yeah, I do still do it. Yeah, awesome. So you referenced at the beginning,
[12:40]that you have another book, some more similar to your first book. So tell me about, about those two
[12:47]and like how they relate and what's coming next and all of that. Sure. Yeah. So three books,
[12:52]three years in a row, three November's in a row. So we did cross off the first year. So the third
[12:58]one comes out this November. I'm writing it as we speak. It's almost finished. Yeah, I'm excited.
[13:06]It's, it's much more in the vein of what kind of woman. And I think there's a continuation of that,
[13:11]but maybe just a little bit different. I have to, we'll have to see what it ends up looking like.
[13:16]What's the name of that? I don't know. You told me. If you have any ideas, send me your list.
[13:24]Okay. I mean, I would have to read it. Yeah, right, right, right. No idea. No, I have no idea. And the
[13:31]marketing team would like to have a list of my top, you know, five suggestions by Friday. Oh,
[13:38]tomorrow. And I don't have one. So that maybe that's what I'll be doing after this.
[13:42]I could probably help you. I'm not even kidding. I could try. Sometimes I'm good with titles.
[13:47]You can send me whatever I could, I could try if you want to do that mini challenge.
[13:52]Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. We're doing that now with some of the books. I started this publishing
[13:57]company with Lee Newman. And we have 12 books coming out starting in 2023. So there's awesome.
[14:02]You left that we're even playing with the names. And that's been super fun. So yeah, yeah,
[14:08]deep in the title world. I made utilize you for this task. Thank you.
[14:15]I don't know. Your other titles are fantastic though. So
[14:19]the how old are your kids, by the way?
[14:22]10, 8, 5, and 3. Yeah. Wow. I have four kids too. So oh, do you? What are how old are they?
[14:29]I have 14 and a half year old twins and then eight and seven.
[14:33]Oh my goodness. 14. What are they? A little bit ahead of you, but not much.
[14:38]Why is it boys or girls? I have two of each. Two of each. Yeah. What do you have?
[14:43]Three boys and a girl. Wow. So you know what a circus it is to have four and you have twins.
[14:49]So you're, you're really, you're really doing it there. Yes, the twins. But the twins were
[14:55]first though. So was that worse or better to get it over with? Did you feel like when you had one
[15:02]were you like? Oh, this is so much better. Yeah. Well, when I had one, I was like, oh,
[15:09]yeah, I'm finally going to get to have like one kid, like everybody else got to have first,
[15:14]you know, the kid I could like wear like a purse on my arm, you know, like yeah. Yeah.
[15:19]Take with me with the car seat as opposed to like here I have like this giant contraption
[15:24]with like two kids and oh my goodness. Yeah. And so I was really enjoying that. And then when
[15:31]she was like eight months old and I had finally stopped nursing and I was out and about
[15:37]then I found out I was pregnant again. I was like, oh my god. She just wanted the one kid.
[15:42]No, I'm kidding. But yeah, I was short lived. So then my next year. But I mean,
[15:47]I'm delighted now. Of course, it's like, well, you don't have to say that my fourth was a surprise
[15:52]and it was very traumatizing. It was terrible experience. I mean, yeah, now these peer and around
[15:57]just he's fine. Love, I love you. But wow, it is. I've talked to so many people about this.
[16:04]It's like we have to, yes, of course you love your child, but the unplanned pregnancy
[16:11]when you have other children is, it can be really upsetting because you're already drowning.
[16:18]For me, having a fourth was like, I've already been pushed off the cliff and I'm down in the
[16:23]water and I'm trying to keep my head above water. And then someone just hands me a bag of bricks
[16:27]and it's like, I can't do this. I can't keep trying to stay above water. And then I'll also hold
[16:34]this bag of bricks. So anyway, we're both still here. But yeah, what a journey.
[16:38]No, I had that same initial thought. I was like, and I'm like, I'm not one of those really cool
[16:44]laid back moms who have four kids. Like I'm not like saying, right? Like people assume
[16:50]that about you. Yeah. Do people assume that? I think that people assume that about
[16:56]mothers of four. They think, oh, they must be this and this because I think people who
[17:02]purposely choose to have a lot of kids probably are more laid back. But I'm not, I'm not that
[17:08]person. So I'm not that person either. I was, I literally like, yeah, I went into my doctor and I
[17:14]was like crying. She's like there are options and I was like, no, I don't need options. Like,
[17:20]no, I'm going to have this baby. I'm going to love him and it's all going to be great. But like,
[17:24]I don't know. I was like, I don't think I can do this. Like, yeah, I don't think I can do it.
[17:28]I just don't think so. Anyway, yeah. But and turned out, but it's like one of the best things
[17:33]about our family. You know, so good. But yeah, but there were there have been and our last tears.
[17:40]Yes. Exactly. That that it's that it's that space of like, this is so wonderful, but still really
[17:48]hard. I don't know. Humans, I think, have some of us have a hard time remembering. You can have
[17:55]those two feelings at the same time, you know, like the Daniel Tiger song. And I, you couldn't
[18:00]have to be like that the same time. And it's okay. I'm like, I have to stay that to myself
[18:04]all the time because I can appreciate and be grateful for for kids while also just feeling like,
[18:14]wow, this is for too many. I think not that it's made me more laid back, but it's made me see
[18:22]that I can't affect change in the same way. Like with the when I only had the two, not only when it
[18:29]was still a while late when I when I had like, if one of them had a tantrum, like, that's what I was
[18:35]doing. You know, like, yeah, I was in it. Like, no, like, I was trying to manage it. Like, I was there.
[18:41]And now literally I can do what they said in the books that I was supposed to like fake doing,
[18:46]which is like, you know, don't really care. Go somewhere else or ignore it. Oh, I'm literally like,
[18:51]okay, if you want a tantrum, I've told you 57 times. I'm not changing my mind about the iPad. If
[18:57]you would like to spend your time tantruming, go for it. I'm going to go walk over there and spend
[19:01]time with your sister right now and like have fun with your tantrum. You know, they end.
[19:05]I know. Isn't it so funny, but you have to get pushed for me too. I had to get pushed to the
[19:11]point of like, I literally can't manage these things. So yeah, it's easier to walk away. It's so
[19:16]much easier. Once you get past that point, you're like, well, I can't help. I can't help all these
[19:22]people. So some of you will have to cry and work it out. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I literally was sitting
[19:30]in my daughter's store. Sorry, this is like so off topic from your book. But anyway, I was
[19:33]sitting there and we were listening to like two little guys fight in the next room. And she's like,
[19:37]they're fighting. Are she going to go in there? And I was like, yeah. No. I was like, same.
[19:42]I was like, I think they're going to work it out. You know, sometimes you just have to let
[19:45]them work it out. And she looked at me like, what? Because like, of course, I never let her work
[19:48]anything out with her brother. Right. And then like suddenly they were come. She's like,
[19:51]oh my gosh, they're not fighting anymore. I'm like, yeah, I know. I have this same experience all
[19:56]the time for, or I'll have people come over who you're like, aren't.
[20:00]used to that and they'll hear like a big loud explosion
[20:03]of crying and fighting and they'll be like,
[20:04]oh my gosh, sometimes they'll be like,
[20:06]oh my gosh, you know, my ears are,
[20:08]or, and, and they will say to me,
[20:10]you remain so unchain, you know, I don't even flinch.
[20:13]I'm just still talking in the conversation that,
[20:16]you know, I'm having with her because I,
[20:19]I have had to tune so much out.
[20:21]You can't absorb four people's emotions
[20:25]and crying and everything all the time
[20:28]where you'll die, you can't, it's like impossible.
[20:32]The human cannot withstand four emotions,
[20:36]strong emotions all the time.
[20:38]Yeah.
[20:38]Let alone you and the partner and whatever else.
[20:41]Exactly.
[20:42]I feel like that's why for me and me free,
[20:44]like I'd love to write, I love to read.
[20:46]I need to like go somewhere else when I'm not anywhere else.
[20:50]Exactly.
[20:51]Same.
[20:52]Serves a good function, but anyway.
[20:54]Okay, we'll back to writing.
[20:56]Do you, do you have any advice
[20:58]for aspiring authors, poets out there?
[21:02]Or whatever, or moms who just don't have before kids?
[21:06]Oh my goodness, childcare for all those things.
[21:09]I would say my answer to all of those topics is childcare,
[21:14]which is complex because childcare involves money,
[21:18]which is something that let people never talk about,
[21:21]never wanna talk about, not you.
[21:23]I'm saying just in general,
[21:24]in the lit world money is like this thing,
[21:26]everyone just shows.
[21:28]When really, to have childcare, you need money.
[21:31]So I don't want it to make it seem like,
[21:33]oh, just get childcare, like it doesn't involve work
[21:37]and figuring that out.
[21:38]But for me, that is the answer to everything,
[21:41]writing, reading, breathing, being a person.
[21:46]Amazing.
[21:47]Excellent.
[21:47]All right, well, you go try to finish your book.
[21:51]Thanks.
[21:53]Good luck with that.
[21:54]I don't know what to say.
[21:56]My fault, I put myself in this position
[22:00]and I can get out of it.
[22:01]I'm almost there.
[22:02]It's just that the home stretch is always hard
[22:06]because it feels like impossible, but I know it is.
[22:10]It's just, we're coming down to it here.
[22:12]So it's been putting in long days
[22:15]and this was so lovely to take a break from that
[22:18]and chat.
[22:19]That's just great.
[22:20]I was like, oh, I can stop for a bit.
[22:24]So this was lovely.
[22:26]If you want me to schedule some pretend,
[22:28]you know, podcast, I could just turn on Zoom.
[22:30]It's like therapy.
[22:31]It's like, yeah, there's still,
[22:34]there's a really felt like a therapy session.
[22:36]I feel much better.
[22:37]So, thank you.
[22:38]Me too.
[22:40]Okay, good, awesome.
[22:41]This was lovely.
[22:42]Thank you so much for having me.
[22:44]You're welcome.
[22:45]It was so nice to get to know you, Kate.
[22:47]Yeah, singing.
[22:48]All right, good luck with the title.
[22:49]And I wasn't really kidding about that.
[22:50]So, you know, thank you.
[22:51]I'm going to email you.
[22:53]Okay, thank you.
[22:54]Okay, yeah, bye.
[22:57]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[22:59]Don't have time to read books.
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[23:08]and sign up for my virtual book club
[23:10]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[23:12]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[23:14]I have a texture sound for the sound editing.
[23:16]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[23:18]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.