Leslie Hooton, THE SECRET OF RAINY DAYS
[0:01]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
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[0:36]Hi! Hello!
[0:38]Enjoy the show.
[0:40]Leslie Hooten is the author of The Secret of Rainy Days.
[0:43]Leslie is a powerful speaker, a lover of language,
[0:46]and the author of Before Anyone Else.
[0:49]She attended the Siwani Writers Conference,
[0:51]and studied with Alice McDermott, Jill McCorkle, and Richard Bosch,
[0:54]growing up in a small Alabama town.
[0:56]Leslie went on to earn her BA and MA from Auburn University,
[1:00]and JD from Sanford University.
[1:02]She now resides in rights in Charlotte, North Carolina.
[1:05]Welcome, Leslie.
[1:06]Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books
[1:09]to discuss The Secret of Rainy Days.
[1:11]Thank you, Sivi.
[1:13]Thank you for this wonderful bookmark, which I use.
[1:15]So, that was nice to get coordinating bookmarks.
[1:20]Leslie, can you please tell listeners what your novel is about
[1:24]and what inspired you, not only to write this novel,
[1:28]but why now, right, become a debut author?
[1:32]It was about friendship, lucky dust, and funeral casseroles.
[1:38]And it's really, truly about the transformative nature of friendship.
[1:44]And I had that experience happen to me.
[1:47]And that sort of is the fuel that sort of is at the heart of this novel.
[1:52]And it's sort of about this friend that you always, always, always grew up with.
[1:57]And sort of a childhood friend, but she's difficult.
[2:00]And then this other friend that just sort of sweeps into your life
[2:05]when you're least expecting it.
[2:08]And for bed, it was on the status day of her life.
[2:12]And she, and she becomes sort of the, her chosen friend, the friend of her heart.
[2:21]And I wanted to see how those, how that tension would play out in a novel.
[2:28]So that's why I wrote it.
[2:30]And so I always loved to kind of discuss great, as you know.
[2:35]So I sort of weaved in the funeral casseroles.
[2:39]And because the childhood friend, his name is Juan, and she does, at everything her entire life,
[2:49]I just thought somebody would, you know, the Raiders would have a friend maybe like that.
[2:54]And so she would of course have this lucky desk according to the to be it.
[3:00]So that's sort of the, that's sort of the jumping off point.
[3:05]Interesting.
[3:06]Okay. So what, why did you write this book?
[3:09]Why, why, when did you start writing a debut novel at an advanced age not not to be revealed?
[3:17]That's okay.
[3:19]I don't, I don't mind.
[3:21]I have actually been writing this book for 10 or 15 years.
[3:24]I've been going to Swami writer's conference for all these years and the summers.
[3:31]And I really, because the woman in question, my best friends, her name is Sandy.
[3:38]I just, this, that I could see how it changed, it changed my life.
[3:44]It, it really, my life sort of is sort of like Dorothy going to Oz.
[3:49]I mean, it is everything when I met her in college, my life turned into color and pretty color and happy colors.
[3:58]And so I have always wanted to write about that.
[4:01]And I think I like Zibi for two reasons.
[4:06]One, so I won't be lonely because I was lonely as a child and two to figure things out for myself.
[4:14]So it's just all selfish for Elle my hand.
[4:18]And I thought maybe somebody else would like this.
[4:21]And I kept writing and I liked it.
[4:25]And the people said, last thing you're writing is beautiful and you need to publish this.
[4:31]And you know, everybody around me at Swami was getting published.
[4:34]So I had an uber agent.
[4:36]I mean, the uberist of uber agents and she just couldn't get it sold.
[4:41]So it's 60, I decided I would rather be alive and published than dead.
[4:47]And I published because, you know, I have this bargain based about body.
[4:52]So I got it published and sort of the rest is history.
[4:58]And so I was thrilled.
[5:00]I was thrilled with the cover.
[5:02]I was thrilled with the cover artist.
[5:05]I mean, she's given me this beautiful cover.
[5:07]I mean, I think that's my brand now sort of pretty covers with, you know, with sort of open-ended ideas.
[5:15]So anyone can put their own ideas on what this is.
[5:19]And it's rain.
[5:21]And so that is sort of how this book came about it.
[5:26]It took me a long time because it is on a biographical.
[5:30]So I would put it in the shelf, so to speak.
[5:34]And then pull it out and people like Kevin Wiltson and people like this.
[5:39]What happened to that gnome?
[5:41]So I thought it's 60.
[5:43]It's now or now or so.
[5:45]The people at Turner published it.
[5:47]And they've been great.
[5:49]And then I read your essay.
[5:52]You should get an agent.
[5:54]I'm like, I should get an agent.
[5:56]I should get a publisher.
[5:57]So I sort of been red tagging it as you know.
[6:00]So if there's an agent or public that's out there that won't speak or would like to talk to me, I would love that.
[6:06]But, you know, it's been fun.
[6:08]I am a creature of COVID.
[6:11]I love it.
[6:12]I love being in my house writing.
[6:15]And so this book was a labor of love and a labor to my friends.
[6:21]Who are my lucky just, you know, so I'm lucky that way.
[6:26]So.
[6:27]That is amazing.
[6:28]I love that persistence.
[6:30]I mean, how great to keep going back to a common.
[6:32]I mean, that's just so inspiring.
[6:35]I love that.
[6:36]Well, I think, you know, after you met me, Zibi, that I am.
[6:42]It may take me a hard time, but I'm consistent and persistent.
[6:47]And I think if you just keep showing up, something will happen.
[6:52]But even in the writing business, if you don't show up, nothing's going to get on the page.
[6:58]So I mean, although years, I was writing at night, you know, and it was like a job.
[7:06]It was.
[7:07]I did it and I didn't have to.
[7:09]I mean, I guess you would say you must be disciplined.
[7:13]Yes, I guess maybe that's sort of the.
[7:17]Or dumb or whatever.
[7:19]That's sort of the cornerstone of how I've written.
[7:22]It's just every day doing it.
[7:25]You know, just like exercise, just like breathing.
[7:28]So.
[7:29]Wow.
[7:30]I have to say, when I first read the book, I was surprised with you and Alabama native having this very inside New York opening.
[7:39]Right.
[7:40]This.
[7:41]Upper West side.
[7:43]And party.
[7:44]The Goldman Sachs references and this personal shop or a burg door.
[7:50]It's like, it's very New York.
[7:51]I felt like you were lurking right around the corner from me up here.
[7:55]And I would be crossing George and little bit on the street and all of that.
[8:01]Tell me about the setting in New York and the decision to start the book there and have that be where she's front where she goes to after growing up.
[8:09]in Alabama and all of that.
[8:12]I think you probably will find a lot of Alabama native in New York if you just.
[8:18]Well, I would say look, but maybe listen.
[8:22]I'm a very big fan of place.
[8:28]I think place.
[8:29]My in my DNA and so Alabama is always going to be in my DNA, but I was one of those people that wanted to escape. So I've always loved New York and so I've sort of.
[8:45]Basically, and I have some friends that sort of are the basis for sign of.
[8:51]And that live in New York. So it wasn't totally out of my realm of knowledge, but I love the idea of place.
[9:03]Which is the little town in Alabama. That is, that is the place. So that was sort of.
[9:14]I mean, it had a gravitational pull on Nina. So it didn't, you know, so that is sort of why I said it in both places. So you could see that she dropped.
[9:27]dropped in both places and she just had this this decision she had to make. So anyway, she made it.
[9:35]I loved how one of the themes was sort of how to cope with someone in your life, like her grandmother.
[9:42]And it was bit and she's a little bit. So how she coped with having a very overpowering, almost manipulative or perhaps outwardly manipulative grandmother.
[9:52]And how you come to terms with a difficult relationship once you lose that person, right? Cause you, those relationships come with.
[10:00]so many conflicting feelings as she had,
[10:02]how does not that there's any way to process grief,
[10:05]but what that does to the grief process?
[10:09]Well, and her name was Biggie,
[10:12]and I love the nines in this book.
[10:14]Oh, sorry, Biggie, what did I say?
[10:16]Yeah, sorry.
[10:17]Use it, Biggie.
[10:18]I don't know.
[10:18]But anyway, it was Biggie a little bit.
[10:20]I love the juxtaposition there.
[10:23]I mean, you have wien and a little bit,
[10:26]which obviously is just a conflict in nines.
[10:29]But then you have Biggie,
[10:31]who as you said is a force of nature larger than life,
[10:35]and then a little bit.
[10:36]And she, I don't think she understood a grandmother
[10:40]until after she was gone.
[10:42]And I think that happens so many times we're young
[10:47]and our impressions form when we're 12 or 13.
[10:51]And then when we're an adult,
[10:54]it's like I haven't, I haven't, and this,
[10:59]I call her, and I call her the row shark test ant
[11:04]because when I was growing up, she was one way,
[11:08]and then I saw her for her, all the wonderful attributes
[11:15]she had as an adult.
[11:17]But I didn't, I think when I was a toy over a 13,
[11:21]I saw her as a very eccentric,
[11:23]and then when I saw her, I was like, oh, so I think people
[11:28]can change, we shape memory shift, you know, shape shift.
[11:32]I think that happens when we're children and adults.
[11:35]And we just have to, I think we just have to decide
[11:40]are we gonna accept those people?
[11:42]And did they do the best they can?
[11:44]And I don't think Biggie had, you know, horrible motives
[11:48]to bitch.
[11:49]I wanted her to do what she wanted to do
[11:51]and she thought she knew what was best.
[11:53]But I don't think it was malignant
[11:56]and I don't think it was serious or just mean.
[12:00]I think she just wanted the best for her.
[12:03]So in the end, Big had to decide that
[12:06]and I think she had to decide that with WAN.
[12:08]And we never, as you know, we never,
[12:12]and I said I would tinker with the terminology
[12:16]of Dr. Kubler Ross.
[12:18]I don't think we ever accept Brie, Zibi,
[12:21]I wrote a piece Friday about my brother's death.
[12:24]I think we have a loud one.
[12:25]I think there isn't a loud one.
[12:28]And we can allow it to sit with us.
[12:31]But I don't think we totally accept it.
[12:33]And that's just my own preference.
[12:36]But I friend Megan said that was a good thing.
[12:39]So and that's her side hustles.
[12:41]I think she did, you know, I was like, okay,
[12:44]that's good.
[12:45]And she likes it then I must be owned as something.
[12:47]So I think, and I think Oba said that to be about a death
[12:52]and later in the book, a bad death.
[12:56]And she said grief, we don't accept it.
[12:59]We just have to allow it to sit with us.
[13:02]So I just say not too close, but anyway.
[13:06]I'm so sorry about your brother.
[13:08]Thank you.
[13:09]And well, you had all this horribleness during COVID.
[13:14]So I think that's when you and I bonded
[13:17]because we bond over grief and we bond
[13:21]because we love people.
[13:22]And love is the opposite side of the coin of grief.
[13:26]So that if we can get to that point,
[13:29]then that's a good point.
[13:30]Yes, I agree.
[13:32]Oh, well, it's so great that you wrote about it
[13:35]and are open and it helps so many other people
[13:39]to read and to hear not only about your own personal grief
[13:42]but putting it in fiction.
[13:43]So people really are immersed in the feelings
[13:46]and all of that.
[13:48]It's true, you can't get over it.
[13:49]You find a new way to live with it.
[13:51]It's like a new piece of furniture
[13:52]and it's not leaving your house.
[13:54]You just have to kind of redecorate.
[13:55]It's sort of like the barter lounge or this end that you don't
[13:59]like it, but it's stuck because your husband likes it
[14:02]or something, you're like, okay.
[14:05]And that's why I came up with the term allowance.
[14:08]It's just we can allow it to sit with us,
[14:11]allow it to be in our lives.
[14:13]But acceptance seems like, okay, this was whatever,
[14:20]acceptance is the federal FedEx package we're getting.
[14:25]But allowance seems, and I like allowance
[14:29]because it's a softer word.
[14:30]And I think sometimes it's a softer emotion
[14:36]that we have to accept grief.
[14:37]Why did you refer to yourself as having a bargain-based
[14:41]body?
[14:42]Well, I think, I think you know this.
[14:47]You know, I didn't know this until I was 50,
[14:50]which yes is part of maybe a memoir.
[14:53]I didn't know I had a stroke until I was 50,
[14:56]but I had a stroke that affected my right side.
[15:00]And so my mother, Sarge, was very insistent that I get
[15:06]the best help I can.
[15:08]So she found this great doctor in New Orleans.
[15:12]And that was exotic that we drove from Rona,
[15:17]Alabama, which was 12 hours late to New Orleans
[15:22]for these doctors' appointments.
[15:23]And these surgery, so I spent most of my childhood
[15:28]in a wheelchair or in the hospital.
[15:31]And what did I do?
[15:33]I took my library card, because my library card could take me
[15:38]places that the stupid wheelchair couldn't take me.
[15:44]So, and my mother was a librarian, so that was,
[15:47]she was like my pusher, you know, and all sorts of ways.
[15:50]So she can't, you know, I read all the time.
[15:53]And then I said, well, I want to have characters
[15:56]that keep me company.
[15:57]And that was sort of what I write for myself,
[16:01]as I said, I write for myself because these characters,
[16:04]whether it's fit and when, keeping me company.
[16:08]And, you know, part of the book was so hard to write,
[16:11]Zibi, because I lost a vest, you know, in the book,
[16:15]I lost an important person.
[16:17]I mean, bit lost an important person.
[16:19]So I had to get up for a couple of days,
[16:21]because I couldn't write about it,
[16:22]because it was literally happening to me
[16:25]and all my nerve-y and things.
[16:27]It was like terrible, you know.
[16:30]So, you know, that's why I probably write,
[16:35]is because my body is like this,
[16:38]and I am very, maybe that's why I'm so disciplined.
[16:41]I got up and exercised this morning.
[16:43]I tried to work out every morning,
[16:46]because this is the body I've got, for better or worse.
[16:51]Some of my friends say, please don't refer to that.
[16:54]Please don't refer to your body like that,
[16:56]but it is, and that's what it is.
[16:59]And, you know, I had to have a friend come with me,
[17:02]the New York, but by the end of my book tour,
[17:05]Zibi, I was hopping on planes left in my past day,
[17:08]but, you know, you just got that first time.
[17:12]I was like, I'm really nervous.
[17:13]I don't think I can do this.
[17:15]And so my friend Kimberly came with me,
[17:19]and it was thrilling.
[17:21]I said, I had two like Forrest Gump wakes up.
[17:24]I was with my best friend, and she's not really
[17:28]my best friend, but she gave me hug,
[17:30]and told me I should write my memoir,
[17:32]and I was with Kevin Wilson.
[17:34]And then the next week, I was with you.
[17:36]So I was like, what's on a lot of his videos, you know?
[17:40]Because I am like, why at person,
[17:42]with a very quiet life?
[17:43]So it was thrilling, you know?
[17:46]And I met some really terrific people that night,
[17:50]and you know, you have sort of been a guardian angel
[17:57]for me, and whether you know it or not,
[17:59]and to be better and to write better and to read.
[18:03]And so you have sort of stepped into that gap
[18:07]when Sarge died to kind of read things that are nourishment,
[18:14]and enjoy them and push myself.
[18:18]So I love that, and you were such a bright spot
[18:26]for so many authors, and you give us a chance.
[18:29]So it's important.
[18:31]Oh, that is so nice.
[18:34]I can't explain how much that means to me.
[18:37]As you were saying it, I was like, I have to write this down
[18:40]or something, but thank you.
[18:41]Thank you for saying that.
[18:42]And I'm so glad that I have been...
[18:45]Well, you know how I'll send you a note.
[18:47]You know how I'll send you a note, as we hand,
[18:50]is all about, she would not want me to be Leslie of the no notes,
[18:55]but so, you know, winning all her crazy nomadics,
[18:58]but, you know, she was very insistent on write notes.
[19:03]And that's so, yes.
[19:05]But, and I appreciate, you've made me so nervous.
[19:08]I can't even look at you in the face.
[19:10]And I'm like, why am I making you nervous?
[19:13]This is your, this is, this is bad, you know.
[19:17]I was there and I was very comfortable with you that night.
[19:21]And I'm like, oh, dear gosh, I'm gonna be on with you.
[19:24]I actually, I'm with Zibi, so anyway.
[19:27]No, don't be silly.
[19:28]I'd love to meeting you at the Zibi Awards.
[19:30]You're as charming in person as you are helpful
[19:33]on Instagram and everything else.
[19:35]And you're a wonderful woman.
[19:38]And I am inspired by you and your openness
[19:42]and, you know, all of it, perseverance
[19:45]and your beautiful writer and all of it,
[19:48]it's just amazing.
[19:51]I'm glad our pads have crossed.
[19:53]And I'm, yeah, I'm just in all of you in many ways.
[19:57]I don't, well, I don't.
[20:00]know about that, but I am in awe with you because I don't think you must have a casting drip or something
[20:07]because I don't think you sleep. I joke with you about that, about moms don't have time to sleep.
[20:14]I think that's your new jam because I don't know how you do all this. And you know,
[20:23]although I do, you know, I think, you know, Kyle is very nice. I think he does help. So we
[20:33]got to give us chat at Kyle, but yeah, but most of my days are in further runs. And this is
[20:40]this is what I call my bargain basement body, Leslie Inc. And everybody says, are you doing
[20:46]Leslie Inc today, which is physical therapy, which I do every week, she'll be still, it will be
[20:52]in perpetuity. I do Pilates, which sometimes I hate, but necessary. I do that every week.
[21:00]I saw you. I saw you wrote about it on your blog. You're Pilates with a little picture of you.
[21:07]I know, you know, and I wrote about Robert on Friday because I've, you know, witnessed
[21:16]you were such a testament to being authentic and living in Truso. You know, I'm like, okay,
[21:25]I'm going to write about Robert because I followed your journey with your mother-in-law who had
[21:31]been a living Charlotte. So that was kind of, that's when I really reached out to you because I'm
[21:36]like, she lived in Charlotte, you know, and then I was glad I worked Duke and just nice, you know,
[21:43]Susan is beautiful. So yeah, and then I do acupuncture on Friday. So perhaps my week is just suspended
[21:52]by these, you know, working on my body. So I can be at my computer for untold hours, you know, and
[22:02]so because that my neurosurgeon said, Leslie, what would you rather do? Would you rather do your laundry
[22:08]and your hair or would you rather ride? And the answer comes very clearly. And so I'm like,
[22:15]I just need a laundry ferry, which I found. And, you know, my hair person does my hair. So, you know,
[22:22]I'm just a one-trick pony zippy and maybe I don't do it well, I ride. You know, that's what I do.
[22:28]And I try to be myself. I don't think there was an author's handbook or at least I didn't get
[22:34]one maybe because I don't know. It's still in the mail. But you know, I've had a big, you know,
[22:42]and I'm just my sales. I think, you know, that I think you solve this that night. And so
[22:49]anyway, there is no author handbook, but perhaps you should write that. You should write one.
[22:56]That would be a good one. Maybe there is one who knows. Oh my gosh.
[23:02]Leslie, thank you so much for coming on the show, for coming up to New York for the Zippy Awards,
[23:08]for all of the outreach and support and everything. And just it's been a true pleasure. And I'm
[23:16]so sorry I made you nervous. I try not. I mean, I am the most like just, I'm just excited to listen.
[23:23]I just like to learn about people. So it should never make anybody nervous. I'm curious.
[23:28]So well, you know, that's what my mother said and less in with Sarge because why not?
[23:33]She was curiosity. I think curiosity is the best characteristics to be a writer. And the other one,
[23:44]I think, and I got this from Galway Canal. But I think is astonishment. I think we're
[23:51]we're astonished by the world. And we are astonished by the bud. But then we want to be curious.
[23:58]And so I think if you put those two twin concepts together, I think it would make you a better writer.
[24:08]But I also think it will make you a better human being.
[24:11]I love that. I love astonishment and curiosity. Excellent.
[24:16]Don't. Well, you know, it's never a bad idea to listen to Galway Canal or Mary Oliver or whatever
[24:24]about Margaret wrinkle about things that are very important in life. So, you know,
[24:31]Sarge. Thank you, Sarge. All right, Leslie, have a great day. Thank you for making my day and making
[24:40]me feel so good. So thank you. Well, good to meet you're the best. Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye.
[24:50]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to
[24:54]follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also, sign up for
[24:59]my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom
[25:04]every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[25:09]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.