Georgia Pritchett, MY MESS IS A BIT OF A LIFE: Adventures in Anxiety
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[0:40]Georgia Pritchett is the author of My Mess is a Bit of a Life.
[0:44]Adventures in Anxiety.
[0:46]Georgia is a multi-award winning comedy and drama writer.
[0:49]Her writing and production credits include Veep, Have I Got News For You,
[0:53]Smack the Pony, Not Going Out, The Thick of It,
[0:56]And Most Recently, The Shrink Next Door on Apple TV.
[1:00]She is currently a writer and co-executive producer on HBO's critically acclaimed show Succession.
[1:06]Now in its third season.
[1:08]Welcome, Georgia.
[1:09]Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss.
[1:12]My Mess is a Bit of a Life.
[1:14]Adventures in Anxiety.
[1:16]Thank you so much for inviting me.
[1:18]It's my pleasure.
[1:19]As fellow anxiety sufferer, I was couldn't wait to pick this book up and see what
[1:25]your adventures were like.
[1:28]So tell me.
[1:29]I know in the book you have this.
[1:31]I don't know if it was fictitious or not.
[1:33]This encounter with the therapist or you decide to write your feelings down
[1:36]because you had trouble talking about them.
[1:37]And then of course you like loop it all together at the end because you're so
[1:40]good at telling a story.
[1:42]Is that how it happened?
[1:43]Or when did you decide that is how it happened?
[1:46]Yes, that's exactly how it happened.
[1:47]Yes.
[1:48]Yeah, I don't know how to break it too, but I'm British.
[1:51]And that is another way of saying socially awkward and emotionally repressed.
[1:56]So yes, I think, you know, it's interesting, isn't it words?
[2:01]Are my thing?
[2:02]I've always loved words.
[2:03]My job is all about words and my life is all about words.
[2:07]And then when it came to trying to tell someone how I was feeling when I was kind
[2:14]of in crisis, I just couldn't find the words.
[2:17]And that was a scary thing.
[2:19]And yeah, my therapist said, right, write it down.
[2:23]And I thought, yeah, I'm definitely not going to do that.
[2:26]So I resisted for quite a long time.
[2:31]And then I just thought, well, I don't know what else to do.
[2:34]So I'll start and let's see if I can do it or not.
[2:38]And yes, I ended up kind of writing down all my sort of experiences of feeling
[2:47]anxious and all the kind of stuff that's happened and how I've coped often badly with it.
[2:54]And yeah, it was, it was a surprise.
[2:57]I've spent so many years as a scriptwriter putting words in other people's mouths that to suddenly write something very personal
[3:04]and direct was kind of horrifying and scary.
[3:09]I don't know what happened.
[3:10]Do you feel any better or worse now that it's out there in the world and people are actually reading it?
[3:15]Yeah, it's weird. I was very worried. Certainly people have known me all my life don't know 80% of what's in the book.
[3:24]So I was concerned, but then I did kind of think, you know, I wonder what my mum and dad will think, but then of course, because we never talk about anything.
[3:33]We've never had to discuss it. So that's what that perfectly.
[3:39]You know, via companion, their book, you know, that they thought we could start a literary feud.
[3:45]They could just do their version of events.
[3:47]It would be great. You can just alternate.
[3:49]You'd have a whole bookshelf full of alternating dialogue and never actually meet up.
[3:53]It would be great.
[3:54]Yeah.
[3:55]Perfect.
[3:56]Next stuff. Family therapy suggestion here.
[3:58]Well, I'd love how you involved little bits and pieces of your whole career writing, how it was being a particularly a woman
[4:08]in the male dominated industry, how you dealt with that.
[4:12]I thought I was so funny when you called yourself, et cetera.
[4:15]You were like, people would write in the script notes to like Dan, John and Larry, et cetera.
[4:19]I was, et cetera.
[4:22]And how you see the whole the arc of your whole career.
[4:25]And now we and we know that you've become successful at the end.
[4:29]So when what I was reading it, it was so exciting.
[4:31]I'm like, well, how does she go from the charcuterie counter to succession?
[4:36]That is quite a jump.
[4:38]Yeah.
[4:39]I mean, I miss the shock of a tree counter.
[4:42]Lots of ways.
[4:44]But yeah, I suppose you never feel you're successful, do you?
[4:48]But I think what I've been and I think, you know, as you said, it's a male dominated industry,
[4:54]but I think women in any walk of life, we learn pretty quickly.
[4:58]We have to be resilient and persistent.
[5:02]And I think I just learned that I had to be kind of relentless and just keep going and keep going.
[5:09]And kind of lots of obstacles were thrown in my way.
[5:12]And I think in the end, I got to a point where it was almost kind of a defiant mode.
[5:17]Like, I'm going to keep writing.
[5:19]Whatever you say, or however hard you try and make it.
[5:22]And so yeah, I think it's, I think where I've got to is more about persistence necessarily than talent.
[5:31]But anyway, I'm very glad to be where I am.
[5:36]I had no doubt that you would be self deprecating the whole time.
[5:40]So I had no illusions that you would be like, yeah, it's really wonderful.
[5:43]So you did quickly mention your one me two moment where the man you were working with,
[5:49]it was much older.
[5:50]It kind of pushes you into an elevator night after night.
[5:53]And the worst part about it.
[5:54]I mean, that obviously in and of itself was a huge part that that happened.
[5:58]But the part that kind of broke my heart about it was when you tried to reach out to another woman to help you.
[6:03]And then try to explain just come into the elevator with me.
[6:06]And she got your eye at the end and then she didn't come in.
[6:09]And you're like, and that just about sums up the industry.
[6:11]So yeah, yeah, yeah, it really does sum up the industry.
[6:16]And I hope, you know, that I obviously thought should I mention it.
[6:22]But I feel like, you know, along with a lot of other stuff in the book,
[6:26]it's so easy to think that other people are doing better than you are.
[6:31]And to think that no one else is struggling.
[6:34]And I just felt a responsibility to be honest.
[6:38]And I think also, you know, as women we're sort of trained not to complain ever.
[6:45]And I felt, you know, I think there's a distinction between complaining.
[6:50]And being truthful and being honest.
[6:53]And certainly when I was a younger woman, I would have loved it.
[6:58]To have a book to read or for other people to have been them.
[7:03]Kind of talking about their difficulties, whether it was, you know, a sort of personal or sexual nature in a workplace or otherwise.
[7:11]And I think, you know, it's great more and more women are speaking out.
[7:14]And I hope that means that the landscape is changing for the younger women who are coming through now.
[7:20]Well, the career stuff I found very interesting.
[7:23]But also your personal stuff, some of which was truly heartbreaking from your two miscarriages late stage, not too late.
[7:33]I mean, 12 weeks and the scary you had with your wife about the tumors.
[7:40]And you're, I mean, there are some really big deal sad stuff in the book that you, you, you, you quit your way through.
[7:50]Right.
[7:51]Yeah.
[7:52]Hiding it up in a paragraph.
[7:54]But of course, there's so much pain behind it.
[7:56]And I know that this is your communication style.
[7:59]It's a better or worse, those are the tools I have.
[8:04]And yeah, I think that's, that's right.
[8:07]That was the only way I had of dealing with things and, and maybe that's why, you know, you kind of think, well, I can just make a joke of this and then.
[8:18]And I can just find it under never open this container of emotion. Never again, but, so much need that that my filing system. Let me down after a number of years.
[8:31]And it all came bursting out. So yeah, it's well, the one, the one guy you joked around with onset who caught himself a worm wrangler and you go, well, I suppose I'm a word wrangler.
[8:43]And you have to have that skill a lot, especially with the more difficult bits when you had, I think your first miscarriage you said your womb had become a tomb.
[8:54]Right. Something like that, which.
[8:55]Oh my gosh. It's just like, it just got to me.
[8:59]I think, yeah, it's, it's tough. It's tough being a woman. I think we blame ourselves for so many things that are out of our control.
[9:08]And yeah, there's a lot of pressure on women as parents and you know, and I say in the book, you know, when when my sons got diagnoses.
[9:19]There was certainly implications. It's not more than that from people in the medical world that it was my fault in somewhere or another.
[9:29]And that's, that's tough. Yeah, I think everything seems to come that people have a weird idea about motherhood. And yeah, it's been tough. And I was very grateful actually when, you know, the one thing I knew was I had really bonded with my son and I loved him from the first moment.
[9:48]So thank goodness I felt sure about that because I think someone telling me that I hadn't done that properly would have been pretty devastating if I had been.
[10:00]the bless sure of that.
[10:02]Yes, you have two neuro atypical. Is that that's the right
[10:06]moniker?
[10:07]The arrow atypical children and you have to talk about the education
[10:11]and finding the right home and how the right school finally enabled you to
[10:16]you know, have a birthday celebration and all these things that were just out
[10:19]of reach and how great that was. But that is, I mean, there's a lot of
[10:23]stress when things like that happen to kids. It's not because it doesn't
[10:27]just happen to them. It's everything, right? It's
[10:30]all publishing and you, yeah, obviously, all that manifested itself in a
[10:34]physical way for you too. Yeah, how was that? Like, what was that? I kept
[10:39]the reading this and I was like, she's got to see a different doctor.
[10:42]You know, we're like seeing all the black spots and everything. I was
[10:45]like, could she be having migraines? Like, what is going on? Are you like,
[10:49]should I get her a new doctor? Is she getting it? Yeah, I think it's so
[10:57]it's so interesting, isn't it? When I think it's very, we want to think
[11:02]there's some easy physical explanation for any problem. We don't want to
[11:06]think it's an emotional problem. And so yes, as you say, I saw so many
[11:13]doctors and homeopaths and healers and all kinds of things trying to solve
[11:19]the mystery of what was wrong. And of course, it was actually very simple,
[11:26]which is that I hadn't expressed any emotion for decades and except for
[11:31]happiness. And that turns out that's not a good plan. So yeah, that was,
[11:38]that was a learning curve to kind of, I really put the hours in trying to solve
[11:43]this mystery. And then, yeah, then I finally went to see a therapist and then
[11:49]when I got there, I couldn't speak. So yeah, it was pretty tricky time.
[11:54]Wow. When you look back on it, do you feel like, I mean, is there any other way
[11:59]you could have ever coped? Like, do you ever say like, oh, I should have written
[12:02]this down or you're just like, well, this is just how I did it. And here,
[12:06]this is where we are. And we all cook the things differently. And I'm going to
[12:09]have 37 nosebleeds and she's not. And that's just like, right? I mean, you say
[12:14]you have nosebleeds as though that's not a very normal way of expressing
[12:17]your emotions. But that's my main way. Yeah, I think it was interesting
[12:23]actually writing it down. I think when you're in the middle of the chaos of life,
[12:27]it's so easy to think, oh, I should be a better person or partner or mother
[12:31]or writer, whatever it is. And then when you write it down and kind of look
[12:36]back with just a little bit more objectivity, I think you can find a little
[12:43]shred of compassion for yourself because you kind of think, well, with the
[12:48]kind of information I had with the resources I had, I was doing my best, you
[12:53]know, it's so easy with hindsight to kind of think, I should have done this.
[12:57]And I should have done that. But that was kind of what when I was writing the
[13:02]book, you know, I'm really interested in memory and how memory works and the
[13:06]sort of fragmentary nature of it and the impressionistic nature in
[13:11]particular when you're younger, the memories from when you're a child. And I
[13:16]really wanted to be true to those and not kind of imbued them with any sort
[13:20]of hindsight or kind of adult sensibility. And yeah, so I think, you know,
[13:26]it's interesting as as you go through life, you sort of observe things, you
[13:31]witness things, you experience things and so often you don't get the full
[13:34]picture for whatever reason. And I think it's important to kind of be be
[13:42]true to that and also be kind to ourselves and say, look, that that was you
[13:47]did your best at the time. And maybe now you do it differently. But, you know,
[13:52]everyone's just trying to do their best. So, you know, it's that's not a crime.
[13:56]Very true. Do you mind if I read a section or so there were just so many
[14:01]parts that I thought were so awesome. Oh my gosh, the tooth fairy. That was so
[14:06]funny. We were having a nice place trying to be the tooth fairy. And you woke up
[14:11]to like her horrified scream. So my gosh, too funny. It's like it's like funny,
[14:16]but sad a lot of the time. But anyway, here's your thoughts on writing called
[14:21]my calling back at home. I had to get a job. I had to persuade someone to pay me
[14:25]money to do something. But what could I do? Apparently, wanting to spend 23
[14:28]hours a day wearing pajamas is not a vocation. And wanting to eat my own body
[14:32]weight and chocolate biscuits is not a calling. But there was a job that would
[14:35]allow me to do both those things and monetize the fact that I spent a lot of
[14:38]time sitting around watching TV writing, which is perfect. And I just want to
[14:45]read this. You're so funny about your perception of how you look and your
[14:49]body. And oh my gosh, you're just so funny about it. This is called ferret. The
[14:53]problem was the way I looked was not the way women in magazines look. I have
[14:57]the shoulders of a muppet. My freakishly long torso, coupled with my
[15:02]unusually short legs, make me look like an eel is taking a ride on a
[15:06]gerbil. The overall effect is more ferret than human. I was bald for years as a
[15:13]child. And when finally, some scratchy hair started to form a thin brush
[15:17]light covering on my head. It stopped too soon. I'm all forehead. And for as
[15:21]long as I can remember, my brow has been furrowed. There's room for a lot of
[15:24]furrow. My hair is curly. I have no say in what it decides to do. My choices
[15:29]are big hair or small hair. All this is set off by a flat face, a snaggle tooth
[15:33]smile, and thin lips to make things worse. I'm told I dress like someone who's
[15:38]best clothes are in the wash. I had always imagined that as I emerged into
[15:44]adulthood, my hair would straighten my legs and fingernails would lengthen. I
[15:47]would develop fashion sense. And I would be able to stamp my fingers three times
[15:51]in the way that all cool people do. Nope. I mean, all of course, you look
[15:57]you're totally normal. I mean, from here, you would think you're like some sort
[16:01]of monstrosity. Lovely looking, normal looking present. And your reflections
[16:08]and your relationships are really interesting too. And even getting to your
[16:11]relationships and figuring out who you loved and why and saying like, well, right,
[16:16]I might not like men. I don't know. Very good English accent.
[16:20]Oh, thank you. I keep going. I'm joking. Yeah, those were my some of my favorite
[16:26]bits. Mass is not a word you ever want to hear unless you're a nun. I mean,
[16:32]there's so many one liners in here. I hope that some of these end up in shows
[16:35]that I end up watching because you know, they're really fun.
[16:39]Do you like kind of laugh to yourself? Like, I had I'd laughed out loud at
[16:42]many times in this book. Like when you're writing and you're saying
[16:45]funny, do you kind of chuckle or not? I think you're always just trying to kind of
[16:50]make your your friends, your imaginary friends, not not my imaginary friend who
[16:55]doesn't to me cruelly and never never came back. But yeah, your friends or your sort of
[17:01]imaginary readers, you just come wanting to make them laugh and and and hoping that they'll
[17:07]be able to relate to to some or all of it. Yeah, it's I think it's a real, it's just you know,
[17:13]it's interesting that I wrote so much bit and locked down. I think it's kind of a trying to
[17:18]connect. Isn't it wanting to make someone laugh or relate is just kind of a need for
[17:22]connection? And I think as I say, when you're sort of British socially awkward,
[17:29]quite hermity person that you have to find other ways of reaching out and having human connection.
[17:36]And I do mine through writing. Well, even the way you describe the differences between
[17:42]the British and Americans and their love of winning and what your sports are designed for
[17:48]a polite draw at the end of five days or as an again, they're just like someone has to win
[17:52]at all costs and we gorgeous you into and oh my gosh, I don't know. Anyway, I'm basically just
[17:58]saying how much I like to all of these different bits and pieces and so happy. It's so lovely and
[18:03]fair. Yeah, it's I feel so lucky that I've got to work in Margaret's funny being British, I kind of
[18:11]of thought oh I don't know what I'm going to think of those Americans. There will probably be
[18:16]very loud and actually I just completely fell in love with the people and the country and I think
[18:24]there's an American trapped inside the body of a repressed British woman here because I actually
[18:31]find it incredibly liberating and exciting how emotionally eloquent Americans are and how honest
[18:41]and how open they are and I just find it so lovely and appealing and want to be more like that.
[18:50]So I love every moment I spend over there and I'm thrilled that I get to write for American
[18:57]shows which I you know I've grown up watching American shows and that was such a huge
[19:01]influence on why I wanted to become a writer. So yeah, I feel like I've kind of found my
[19:08]spiritual haven't there isn't really a word to say you can be an anglophile but I don't know
[19:12]I don't think there's a word for loving America. Yeah, it's so rare.
[19:19]Yeah, it's been great for me very very good for my sanity and I've evolved even a tiny bit
[19:27]I do admit having feelings and my occasion you talk about them which is all good. Yes, okay
[19:33]your work on succession I just have to ask because I'm almost at the end of the last season
[19:39]watching this is whenever I have time my husband and I might our go-to show but we have like
[19:45]two more I think when you're writing for the show and your inner writers room and all of that
[19:49]this is probably a really stupid question but do some people have more of the characters voice or do
[19:54]all like do you hear more heavily towards one character another do you all just like
[20:00]How does it work?
[20:01]Yeah, it's funny enough.
[20:02]I've just come from the succession room.
[20:04]I'm writing season four at the moment.
[20:06]And it's been really nice because of the pandemic,
[20:09]we finished writing season three just before the very first
[20:13]lockdown in 2020 for the time was blurred.
[20:17]So I've read it, it's almost two years since we've seen
[20:19]each other and talked about the characters.
[20:22]So I've really missed them and I've missed the characters.
[20:26]And I think at the beginning, I mean,
[20:28]we all write for everyone and we all were very involved
[20:32]in every episode, we plot it all out together.
[20:35]And then you might take away an episode and write it,
[20:37]but we'll sort of add lines to each others.
[20:39]And it's very sort of organic and collaborative.
[20:43]But I must say, as time goes on, it's just such a joy
[20:49]when you write a kind of long running TV series.
[20:52]You get to spend so much time with these characters
[20:54]and you get to know them.
[20:56]And so I have developed this secret soft spot
[20:59]for Roman, which I don't know if I should admit to,
[21:02]but...
[21:03]It's okay, it's all over your Instagram.
[21:04]Is it?
[21:05]Yeah, that's true.
[21:06]Yeah, it's out of the bag.
[21:08]Yeah, that's true.
[21:10]But I just love him because I think he loves,
[21:14]he's one of the few characters that loves, he loves his dad
[21:17]and he loves his siblings, he loves gerium
[21:20]in a very inappropriate way, but I just,
[21:25]I think it's, you know, at the beginning,
[21:26]it's very difficult because you're just thinking
[21:28]these awful rich white men who are sort of destroying
[21:32]democracy in the world.
[21:34]And, but, you know, we've been able to sort of
[21:38]spend so much time with them that you get under their skin
[21:42]and you kind of work out, you know, what their deal is
[21:48]and how, you know, and Roman distracts me
[21:50]is a really sort of damaged and tragic figure
[21:54]who's been so kind of neglected and abused
[21:57]that he hasn't, he can't have sort of regular
[22:01]relationships so the closest he can get
[22:03]is this weird thing he's got going on with Jerry.
[22:07]And yeah, so I was enjoy writing pen,
[22:10]but they're all fantastic.
[22:12]I mean, my goodness, what a cast.
[22:13]They're just extraordinary, aren't they?
[22:15]Totally, they're all amazing.
[22:17]You know, we were, I was, I was talking to my head,
[22:19]I was like, do you think this counts as abuse?
[22:21]Do you think this counts is like verbal abuse
[22:23]or neglect or whatever?
[22:24]Like, how would you characterize?
[22:26]I mean, it's not being nice.
[22:27]You know, they had their dad's been terrible,
[22:28]but like, isn't it, how would you know?
[22:30]He was like, yes, yes, it's fierce.
[22:32]So like that.
[22:33]Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's very, yeah, it's intense.
[22:38]And, but, you know, they're fantastic people,
[22:41]you know, the cast.
[22:42]I think, you know, when you're a script writer,
[22:45]it's so different from just, from which I could never do,
[22:49]I could never write a novel because I don't know enough
[22:53]and just sort of describe things.
[22:55]I don't want to describe things.
[22:57]It seems really difficult.
[22:59]And, you know, when you're a script writer,
[23:02]you can sort of, you have to collaborate
[23:04]with the actors, basically.
[23:06]It's not, you can't just write in a vacuum.
[23:08]It's a relationship with the actors.
[23:11]And certainly writing for succession
[23:13]has been just a dream because all of the actors
[23:18]bring so, so much to the, to the role
[23:22]that it's just a fantastic experience to kind of write something
[23:27]and then see it elevated to a whole other level
[23:29]by these incredible people.
[23:32]Okay, come on.
[23:33]So where is coming next for you?
[23:35]So we're writing season four at the moment.
[23:39]And then I'm writing, there was a really good podcast
[23:43]over here called 1029.
[23:45]I don't know if you heard about that,
[23:47]which was a true story about some young engineering students
[23:52]who dug a tunnel under the Berlin wall in the 60s
[23:56]and rescued some people from East Berlin.
[23:59]So I'm adapting that with the director of Chernobyl
[24:05]and with the producers of Chernobyl.
[24:07]And then I've got this thing
[24:08]I'm developing for the wonderful,
[24:10]Jerry Louis Dreyfuss we've been trying to think of something
[24:15]to do together since we, since Trump put an end to be,
[24:18]not the worst thing he did, I know,
[24:20]but one of the many things he did.
[24:24]So yeah, we've got something cooking.
[24:26]So I hope that that comes to fruition
[24:28]because she's such an incredible performer.
[24:32]Amazing.
[24:33]That would be great.
[24:34]I love her.
[24:35]I know you mentioned in your acknowledgements holding her coat
[24:38]while she got, while she over can't just the hair.
[24:41]Yeah, I need to answer, yes.
[24:43]You're the worst man, so amazing.
[24:45]Well, I just, I just want to say thanks
[24:48]because you easily could have not shared any of this, right?
[24:51]That's how you were going about life.
[24:53]And it seems almost highly unlikely that I would be
[24:56]reading about your interior life.
[24:59]I have and it's, you know, it makes me think
[25:02]and it makes people feel less alone.
[25:04]And it's funny and entertaining.
[25:06]And I'm so glad you decided to share it.
[25:09]So it's my idea.
[25:11]I do.
[25:12]Yes, I have a fear that people are saying,
[25:14]what were you thinking?
[25:16]So it's very nice when people don't say that.
[25:21]And yeah, it's been fantastic talking to you.
[25:24]I love your podcast.
[25:25]I love your bookshelves.
[25:27]Thank you.
[25:28]I love your typewriter.
[25:29]Thank you.
[25:30]That was my grandmother.
[25:31]So great.
[25:32]And she passed away.
[25:33]They were like, you know, is there anything you want
[25:35]from a department?
[25:35]And I was like, I want the typewriter.
[25:37]That's it.
[25:37]I have to have it.
[25:39]Yeah.
[25:40]Great.
[25:41]All right.
[25:41]Well, thank you.
[25:42]It was nice chatting.
[25:43]Thank you.
[25:44]So great.
[25:44]You should be.
[25:45]You too.
[25:46]Take care.
[25:46]Thank you.
[25:47]Bye-bye.
[25:47]Bye.
[25:49]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[25:52]to Read Books.
[25:53]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zebioans
[25:56]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:58]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[26:01]and sign up for my virtual book club
[26:02]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[26:05]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at TexturesSound
[26:07]for the Sound Editing.
[26:09]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[26:11]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.