Ericka Sóuter, HOW TO HAVE A KID AND A LIFE: A Survival Guide
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[0:41]Erica Souter is the author of How to Have a Kid and a Life Survival Guide.
[0:46]Erica Souter has over 20 years of journalism experience and is a nationally recognized voice
[0:51]in parenting news and parenting advice.
[0:53]A frequent contributor on Good Morning America and other national broadcast outlets.
[0:57]It's her job to speak to parents across the country to stay on top of the issues, controversies, and trends most affecting families today.
[1:03]Our work has appeared on The Bump, What to Expect, CafeMom, and Mom.com.
[1:08]All high traffic parenting sites that reach millions of moms each month.
[1:11]Her writing has also been featured in People Magazine, Us Weekly, Essence, Cosmopolitan, Self, and WebMD.
[1:18]Miss Souter received her Bachelor's Degree from Georgetown University and a Master's Degree from Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism.
[1:25]A Native of Ann Arbor, Michigan.
[1:27]She currently lives in New York City with her husband, Caleb, and her sons.
[1:31]Welcome, Erica.
[1:32]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:33]On moms, don't have time to read books to discuss how to have a kid and a life a survival guide.
[1:38]Thank you.
[1:39]So excited to be here.
[1:40]Does this mean you have survived having a kid and that you do have a life?
[1:44]I'm surviving right now because they're both actually in school.
[1:48]I usually have at least one kid at home.
[1:53]So tell listeners, why did you decide to write this book?
[1:57]You're a People Magazine reporter for a million years interviewing all these celebrities, red carpet, blah, blah, blah.
[2:02]Next thing you know, you're writing a guidebook to how to survive being a parent.
[2:05]What happened?
[2:06]Yeah.
[2:07]Well, I was a celebrity journalist for a very long time.
[2:10]A great job of amazing worked at People Magazine than Us Weekly.
[2:14]And once I had kids, it just didn't drive with family life.
[2:18]You know, I found myself like at the office at 2 a.m. waiting for Kim Kardashian to call back to say how she gets her body looks so great and some image rest.
[2:29]And I'm thinking, oh my God, my kid is going to be up in three hours.
[2:33]I'm dying here.
[2:34]And it just, you know, in my 20s was like the best job ever.
[2:39]But once you have kids, it just became really hard.
[2:42]So I decided to completely switch gears.
[2:44]And I went into parenting and I became an editor for a site called Cafe Mom.
[2:48]And I just died full on still used all those skills.
[2:51]I had as a journalist talking to people, being incredibly nosy and inquisitive and turning their stories into really amazing needs for people.
[2:59]But it just, it was a schedule and a life that was just more conducive to being a mom.
[3:05]I totally understand.
[3:06]I also liked how you said you just kind of had gotten over the lying that like you had interviewed some celebrity gushing about marriage.
[3:13]And then two weeks later they got divorced and you were like, I'm done.
[3:16]I know.
[3:17]I was like, okay, enough.
[3:18]Just, you know, why lie?
[3:19]Just don't talk about him at all.
[3:21]Like, she was talking about how amazing it was and how they just are so meant for each other.
[3:26]And literally two weeks after we printed the interview that she filed for divorce and I'm thinking, oh my gosh.
[3:32]But it was, it's, you know, celebrity life is just so different than everyday life.
[3:37]But I think once you have kids, it really drives it home, you know.
[3:41]And you want to focus on other things.
[3:43]And I just wanted to focus on stories and articles and interacting with people that I felt contributed something.
[3:51]Yes, bigger to the world.
[3:53]I loved your section though.
[3:55]Stars are not just like us.
[3:56]You're like, they don't eat.
[3:58]And you're like, you don't ever want to carve ever.
[4:00]I know.
[4:01]I know.
[4:02]I was talking to one star who's amazing and beautiful and kind.
[4:05]And she was talking about, she doesn't eat carbs.
[4:08]She just don't like carbs.
[4:09]And I understand like if you just don't eat them because you want to, you know,
[4:13]you don't want to fall off or blow it or whatever.
[4:15]But I'm like, you don't like carbs.
[4:17]Like, that's like, this is insane.
[4:19]Like, I live for carbs.
[4:21]Yeah, let me do life without carbs.
[4:23]No.
[4:24]I don't even know what I would do.
[4:25]I would also like topple over from like lack of energy.
[4:28]But anyway, whatever.
[4:30]Okay, back to mothering as a, you know, content vehicle for you.
[4:34]So you moved over to cafe mom.
[4:36]And then at what point did you decide you had enough information
[4:39]and that you wanted to write your take on parenthood?
[4:42]Well, so I was the editor of their news and entertainment section.
[4:46]But I also, it's been a lot of times at conferences, mommy meetups.
[4:49]I would, you know, spend time with the curator of the mommy museum.
[4:52]There is a mommy museum.
[4:53]And I realized, you know, and I was doing that to kind of get a better grasp
[4:57]of what moms wanted and needed and what life was really like for moms.
[5:00]Because I didn't want the stories to just be surface.
[5:02]I really wanted to dive in.
[5:04]And I had, I decided to write this post on this research that came out of Rockefeller University here in New York.
[5:10]And it was that there was a mom gene, an actual gene that they found in mice
[5:14]that determined how nurturing a person was.
[5:17]And their hypothesis was that like women have the same human women have the same gene.
[5:23]And that at certain times in a life, it's like activated, right?
[5:26]And it can determine basically how good of a mother you are.
[5:30]And I thought, wow, you know, I was fascinated by it.
[5:34]Because I was never that, that girl who craved being a mom.
[5:38]I never played with baby dolls.
[5:40]I never played house.
[5:41]You know, my Barbies were in the Amazon having adventures.
[5:44]Like, it was, you know, and then when I went to college,
[5:47]I had roommates who were like, they couldn't wait to get married and have kids.
[5:50]And I thought, my God, that was like the last thing on my to-do list.
[5:54]And so I thought, is this mom gene, the reason some of us don't crave having kids?
[5:58]That was actually the title of the post.
[6:01]And the reaction was amazing.
[6:03]There were so many women who wrote in who were like, oh, my God,
[6:06]I don't think I have the mom gene either.
[6:08]I've always felt this way.
[6:09]And I felt weird, vocalizing it.
[6:11]And I thought, you know, there are so many topics that we're not touching on that resonate with women.
[6:17]You know, we really focus when we become parents.
[6:19]We're still focused on the stuff.
[6:21]I'm going to get this best in that and this stroller and this car seat and
[6:25]a wife's warmer.
[6:27]And we kind of like, you know, we focus so much on everything our child needs
[6:32]and how our life is going to change in terms of like how to take care of a baby.
[6:36]But we don't think about how our lives change.
[6:39]You know, we're so dynamic.
[6:40]We have so much going on.
[6:42]And that stuff to exist even though we're busy malls.
[6:46]So I wanted to write a book about all those other changes.
[6:49]So the book really isn't about how to deal with cradle cap or milestones or
[6:54]anything like that.
[6:55]I spent years in your brain women all over the country to find out how their
[7:00]love lives change, how their relationships with other women change.
[7:04]What was like for them when they went back to work.
[7:06]You know, what is it like when they feel like they're burned out and they
[7:10]need something for themselves, you know, how do they find that.
[7:13]And so I put it together because it's really kind of the book.
[7:16]I think I wanted any of it when I was a new mom and I didn't have.
[7:20]Interesting.
[7:21]I loved how touched on this notion of loneliness, especially during the pandemic,
[7:25]when, you know, you rely on your village.
[7:27]And yet it was stripped away from us and even not during a pandemic,
[7:31]even just the course of everyday life.
[7:33]You're suddenly plucked from whatever you were doing before and going through
[7:36]mattress sensor.
[7:37]You know, that's how you pronounce it.
[7:39]Anyway, and you said this when you said what is happening to moms is actually
[7:42]endemic of a larger problem.
[7:44]The epidemic of feelings of isolation and disconnection the world over.
[7:47]If you doubt that, consider this.
[7:49]The British government has appointed a minister for loneliness to deal with the
[7:53]nine million citizens who often or always feel lonely.
[7:57]Similarly, the U.S. insurance company segment conducted a research study that revealed
[8:01]that nearly half of Americans report sometimes are always feeling alone or left out.
[8:05]I mean, that's so sad.
[8:06]And then you think about the moms and that the slice of moms in there.
[8:10]And then when you were at the very end of this section, you said most parenting
[8:14]reasons and blogs offer a deceptive lease and both solutions.
[8:17]Just go out and find moms, any moms.
[8:19]I have to caution that this is not about finding people.
[8:21]This is about finding the right people.
[8:23]Amen to that.
[8:24]That is so true.
[8:25]Yeah.
[8:26]Yeah, it is.
[8:27]I talked to almost every mom I talked to expressed there are times where she
[8:31]feels really lonely.
[8:32]And what I found was what was really kind of shocking is that people who even
[8:36]had huge mom groups that they hung out with still felt feelings of loneliness.
[8:41]And one of the reasons is that they didn't feel particularly connected to the moms
[8:45]they were hanging out with.
[8:46]So it's really not about quantity.
[8:48]It's about quality.
[8:50]And I love I interviewed this woman Shasta Nelson.
[8:52]She's a friendship expert, which I found incredibly fascinating in itself.
[8:56]And she says, you know, there are three basic things you need to feel connected and feel
[9:01]like you have a real friendship.
[9:02]And that's positivity, consistency, and vulnerability.
[9:06]I'm always I always mess with that word.
[9:09]And so, you know, do you feel if you can talk to these people that you're with
[9:14]and share the ups and the downs?
[9:17]You know, are they consistently there for you?
[9:19]Do you speak to them regularly whether it's texts or emails or video calls?
[9:23]And do you are they positive?
[9:25]Do you leave interactions with them feeling better about yourself and feeling happy?
[9:30]And all of those things are really important.
[9:32]And a lot of women don't have those things with their female friendships or at least
[9:37]not all their female friendships.
[9:39]And those are really important aspects.
[9:41]So I wanted to write about this.
[9:43]So it's not just about having friends, about having the right friends.
[9:46]Yeah, I feel like so often it's a product of the school you're in or the class you're taking with your kid
[9:52]or you're thrown together by whatever your kids have in common, not necessarily you.
[9:56]And it's fine.
[9:57]I mean, I met some amazing people along my journey.
[10:00]with all the different kids, would I necessarily sought out everyone individually? No, but then
[10:04]you also have this overlay of the bond that you're in the trenches together. And even that alone
[10:10]can fuse you in some way for the short term. It really does because there's another
[10:16]research on the University of Kansas. And he said that it takes 150 hours to cement a real friendship.
[10:23]And my first reaction is like, who has 150 hours to do anything? That's insane. But it really
[10:28]isn't about sitting down at the work day and working on your friendship. It's like a task.
[10:33]It's taking walks, volunteering together at your kid's school. I met tons of a wonderful mom
[10:40]friends while I was volunteering for the school benefit or the Christmas fair at my kid's school.
[10:46]And over time, in over the years, it's invented real friendships. And these are women I go to,
[10:51]and I talk to you about everything that's happening in my life. And my ups and downs,
[10:58]they're very supportive and they're wonderful people. But it takes time. It's not like this.
[11:02]You see someone and it's this instant kinship just because you both have kids the same age.
[11:07]It really does take time to develop that bond. So do you feel like you've found your people now?
[11:13]I have found my people. I am very, very lucky that I have. But it took a few years to cement
[11:19]this group. There's a group of six of us who, and our kids aren't all friends. And I think that's
[11:25]also incredibly important. For a couple of us, our kids were in the same grade. So we were
[11:30]kind of submitted there through play dates and seeing each other at the park and things like that.
[11:34]But in over time, we developed our own bonds, right? So that with our friends stopping,
[11:40]our kids stopped being friends. We still haven't, we're still anchored in how we care about each other.
[11:46]And I think that's also really, really important. So yeah, no, we actually, we meet for coffee
[11:52]three times a week. Well, before the pandemic three times a week, that's a week after drop off,
[11:58]after drop off. And you know, not all of, you know, some stay at home, some work from home, some
[12:03]work in an office. And we just with like 20 minute coffee right after dropping the kids off
[12:08]at school, catching up a quick laugh. And then we're off. And then during the pandemic,
[12:13]every night at five p.m. whether we were making dinner or whatever we were doing, who was Zoom,
[12:19]Zoom for 30 minutes. And what are you cooking? How are you, how are you staying saying? Who's
[12:23]got in your nerves today? Like, and that really, that was just an amazing support. You know,
[12:28]you don't also have to be in someone's physical presence to fill their support. And I really
[12:32]want people to kind of embrace that and make time for that. That's amazing. I mean, that's like
[12:38]a lot. That's a lot of time to carve out. I mean, that's amazing. I'm so impressed. I just did a
[12:44]Zoom with my girlfriends from college this weekend. And it was like the second time I feel like I've
[12:49]maybe the third time I tried to ever like Zoom with my girlfriends as this particular group instead
[12:54]of just waiting for the next girls trip like once a year. Wow, that's off to you. That's really
[12:59]great. Yeah, you have to be intentional. And I think that's you have to feel like you deserve the
[13:04]time. And for me, I needed it. Like I needed to connect with someone who didn't live in my
[13:08]house during the pandemic because, you know, my husband and my kid were all home. And it was,
[13:12]you know, it can drive your little nuts, right? And you need interaction with other people.
[13:17]And so it wasn't, it didn't work every time. There's sometimes some of us were busy,
[13:20]but it was like that standing time. So whoever was available just logged on and maybe
[13:24]you logged on to the tail end because you were busy helping your kid with homework for the first 20
[13:28]minutes. But it was that we were there. You know, there was someone that was there. And that was
[13:32]important to have. That's great. So what do your kids have to say about this book?
[13:37]Well, my four-year-old could care less. I mean, I just stop him from drawing on it the other day.
[13:41]But my 13-year-old, I mean, he's really proud. He wanted to know if he was in it. And I said,
[13:47]they're in a little bit, you know, he started reading it. And I think it was a little too boring
[13:50]for him, of course, because he's 13. But I've also been very open and honest with them
[13:56]about what mommy needs, right? And it took a while for me to develop. I wasn't when I started off
[14:01]motherhood. I wasn't like, oh, well, this is what I need to survive. Or this is what I know.
[14:05]I mean, I was clueless. And now I know that there are so many parts of my personality.
[14:12]Like, I'm so interested in my career. I'm so interested in my friends. I'm so interested in my
[14:16]hobbies, right? And we often put that on the back burner when we have kids. Because kids are
[14:22]the top priority. And they should be at the top of your priority list. But they don't have to be the
[14:27]only priority. You matter too. All those interests you had are still there. There's just sometimes
[14:34]buried under laundry and stress and work and kids and dinners. And we have to start being
[14:40]intentional about, like, intentional about making time for them. And, you know, I have, like,
[14:46]worksheets in the book about how to find that thing that you're interested in. Because sometimes
[14:50]we also forget, we forget that we love to run or read or cook, you know, cook not for kids,
[14:55]but like maybe explore different kinds of menus and maybe we want to pick up a hobby. Whatever it
[15:01]is, there is something out there that can feed you in a way that maybe your kids and your
[15:08]family don't. And you deserve to make time for those things. I feel like no matter how many times
[15:12]people told me this or how many times I read it, I still like didn't internalize it when I had
[15:18]like really little kids. You know, like, I was like, yeah, yeah, I know I should do that. But, you know,
[15:22]I can't do that because it's bad time or I can't do that because I don't know. I feel like there's
[15:26]so many excuses women make. And I don't know if maybe it was just me being totally obstinate. But
[15:32]what have you found the reception? Do you feel like people listen and that they're, you know,
[15:37]that they're, and that they're willing not just to hear it, but like to actually act on it,
[15:41]internalize the advice and take the time they need? You're like, it's a challenge.
[15:46]Yeah, it's always a challenge. I mean, it's even a challenge for me many days, right?
[15:50]But I think people have reached a point where the burnout is just so extreme, right? People
[15:57]feel so overwhelmed and they're so tired and they're so depleted. And they're just looking for
[16:01]a little bit of relief. There's no like one size fits all solution to this. But in order to
[16:07]the kind of start repeating that burnout and that sense of overwhelm, you have to start working on
[16:13]things, right? So if you are a young mom, a mom of little kids, and you are just at your
[16:20]wits in because you feel like you do nothing for yourself. It's time to start doing something for
[16:25]yourself. And that doesn't mean like, you know, ditching your family and moving to Hawaii to,
[16:31]to surf. But it does mean, you know, taking an online class or figuring out if you want to switch
[16:39]jobs or go back to work or start volunteering. There are things, you know, these are like baby steps
[16:45]and then it could lead to bigger changes in your life. You know, maybe, you know, you love
[16:51]reading, right? Start reading again and then maybe you want to write a book. I mean, it's not
[16:57]impossible. These dreams are within grasp. You just have to make time for them. And I think one of
[17:02]the things I ask every single woman who I talk about, this sense of overwhelm and finding space
[17:07]and time for yourself, I ask six very basic questions. One, am I nurturing my marriage or partnership?
[17:14]I think a lot of people, you know, you focus on kids, but your partnership is still really important,
[17:19]right? And it needs time and care too. You know, is your career, if you have a career, is it
[17:23]headed in a good place? You know, are you, are you doing the things you need to do to move ahead?
[17:28]You know, do you have support or friends to turn to? Like these are friends who are
[17:32]helpful with you with the highs and lows, not just, you know, the girls' nights out. You know,
[17:37]do you feel good about yourself? And what does that mean to you? Is it, you know, feeling good about
[17:41]yourself could mean that are you fit or are you doing something that interests you? Like that
[17:47]that has different meanings to different people, but really asked you feel good about yourself
[17:50]and what is going to take to feel good about yourself? And do nurture the interest and passions that
[17:54]you had before you had kids? A lot of moms didn't know because they don't have time for them.
[18:00]And then, you know, and have you created a social life that has nothing to do with your kids?
[18:04]Like, of course, we meet moms through playdates and school events. But the next step is doing things
[18:10]with people when your kids aren't involved. And that's also really important. So those were like
[18:15]really the six questions. I think every mom should ask herself in 2022. And, you know, actually
[18:21]every year. And if you say no to any of those questions, start making little changes so that you can
[18:27]put yourself back on top of your kid you list because it's important. Okay, okay, okay, I know.
[18:35]So like, what's a hobby that you force yourself to make time for because you love it,
[18:38]but like, easily gets thrown off the list. Running, running. I love running. I'm not like a
[18:44]competitive runner. I'm not going to run a marathon. It's more like a trot or a hardcore runner would
[18:49]say you're trotting. You're not running. But I love it, right? And even if I can do it for 20 minutes,
[18:54]it makes me feel better. It makes me feel good. And there are lots of things that I get from it.
[18:59]No. So I try to make time for it. Does it happen every day? Is it happening when it's like 15 degrees?
[19:04]No. It's not. But it's something that I try to be very intentional about and focus on. That means
[19:11]like, no, my husband will get home more kind of like, look, I'm just going to, I'll be 20 minutes
[19:14]and I'll be back, you know, or if I have one of our moms visiting and make time for that. So
[19:20]that's very important. And also, I've just really made a point of connecting with my girlfriends.
[19:25]You know, and this is not every woman I know. This is just this particular group who have
[19:29]that say need of connection. And so those two things I just try to be very intentional about and
[19:35]I make time for when I can't love it. So now you have the book. What's coming down the
[19:42]pike for you? What else is going on? What do you have coming up? So I still talk to moms. I still
[19:48]do a lot of interviewing because I actively write. I write a lot of health pieces for WebMD. I
[19:54]write a lot of parents and pieces for the parents. Like, I'm still like a burst.
[20:00]in the world of like health, emotional health,
[20:03]parenting, and you know, right now I have a couple
[20:07]of assignments that I'm working on.
[20:08]And it just, it just forces me to get out
[20:11]and interview people and just stay connected to the world.
[20:13]Because the only way you kind of know what's going on
[20:16]is by talking to people.
[20:17]I mean, that's the one amazing thing
[20:18]about being a journalist, like you kind of force
[20:20]to talk to people every day.
[20:22]And you just learn something,
[20:23]you always learn something new for people.
[20:25]And everyone goes to something different.
[20:26]Everyone is struggling with something different.
[20:28]So I like to just continue to write
[20:32]and stay connected.
[20:32]And I just love it.
[20:34]I love being a writer.
[20:34]It's like the best job in the world.
[20:36]I love writing too.
[20:37]You shouldn't write it by the way
[20:38]for moms that don't have time to write.
[20:39]I have a medium publication.
[20:41]So if you ever want to contribute.
[20:43]I would love to.
[20:44]I would love to.
[20:45]I would love to.
[20:46]And I love, and mom's like,
[20:48]my husband's always like,
[20:49]why do these moms tell you this stuff?
[20:51]I would be sharing so much with the USA
[20:54]because I'm not asking about, you know,
[20:57]their kid's milestones.
[20:58]I'm not asking really about their children.
[21:01]I'm asking about them and what they're experiencing,
[21:03]what they're worried about and what they want and what they need.
[21:06]And I think that it just takes asking to like,
[21:09]you know, really make someone feel seen and heard.
[21:13]And it's just, it's just a wonderful way to do.
[21:16]I think for moms or women in general.
[21:17]So what advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[21:20]You know, I would,
[21:21]I honestly think right what you love,
[21:23]write something right about things that you're connected to
[21:26]and connected with.
[21:28]And that will keep you energized and excited and focused,
[21:33]right?
[21:34]I don't write about like things that I, you know,
[21:38]I kind of stay in my lane and love writing about parenting
[21:41]and health and because it's something that energizes me.
[21:46]And I don't veer off.
[21:47]But sometimes people ask me to write about, you know,
[21:50]something wacky or some kind of like or science topic.
[21:53]I'm like, no, that's absolutely not, I can't do that.
[21:58]But I really think that when you find something like,
[22:00]it's kind of like any job, right?
[22:01]If you enjoy it, it doesn't feel like such a trajectory.
[22:04]It feels like something that you're doing
[22:06]that's good for yourself, but also some other people.
[22:09]So I really say right,
[22:10]it should just, you know, if you can,
[22:12]focus on something that you feel emotionally connected to.
[22:15]Okay, last question.
[22:16]And this is totally inappropriate.
[22:17]So you can like ignore me completely.
[22:19]You have like the best skin ever.
[22:21]What do you do?
[22:23]Like what are you doing?
[22:24]Cause I need to like, you have the best,
[22:26]like your skin is just perfect.
[22:27]What do you, what's your secret?
[22:29]What do you do?
[22:30]Oh my God.
[22:31]I am like a product junkie.
[22:33]I literally buy, I'll read about something
[22:37]and it'll be like, oh, the new skin regimen, try it
[22:41]and I'll try it.
[22:42]So I have tried every single thing
[22:44]you can imagine out there.
[22:46]So it's, that's probably what it is.
[22:48]I constantly change my skin regimen.
[22:50]I think that helps cause my skin doesn't get tired of anything.
[22:52]It's constantly like, also I have probably like,
[22:55]a really great concealer on.
[22:57]Oh, well, I don't know.
[22:58]I feel like you need to make your own little,
[23:02]Amazon influencer store or something.
[23:04]Where you sell all the products and people can come
[23:06]and just like, here's my book and here's what I do.
[23:09]You know what I take care of.
[23:10]Oh my God.
[23:11]Honestly, you're right.
[23:11]I opened up my back.
[23:13]I'm like, if you open up my cabin in my back,
[23:14]and there's like 85 different products in there.
[23:17]And I just spoke about my skin strength.
[23:18]I'm gonna try this kill thing today or like,
[23:20]oh, my skin's like too oily.
[23:22]I'm gonna try this.
[23:23]Well, my other thing today,
[23:24]like I just literally try everything.
[23:27]I'm so worried.
[23:28]I'm so worried.
[23:29]I worry.
[23:30]I have all this stuff that people give me or, you know,
[23:32]lately I mentioned people keep giving me wrinkle cream
[23:34]because I obviously have a problem.
[23:36]But I'm like so afraid.
[23:38]Like what if it like starts peeling my skin up
[23:41]or what if I break out?
[23:42]I don't know.
[23:43]I'm like so resistant to change with my skin.
[23:45]I don't know.
[23:47]Oh, no.
[23:48]I don't know why I'm not afraid of that.
[23:49]Like I'm just kind of like if the parmesan of the box
[23:52]is that it's gonna make me look like a million bucks.
[23:54]I'm like, oh, I'll try it.
[23:56]I'll try it.
[23:57]But I also think I wash my face twice a day.
[23:59]I do use a toner and a serum and a moisturizer.
[24:04]I think too as you get older, you're like, you know,
[24:07]in my 20s, I don't think I did anything.
[24:08]I think I woke up and I just like put some body motion
[24:12]on my face and walked out the door.
[24:13]But I'm like, like I feel like I'm finding time now.
[24:18]But my mom also, she's like, typically seven
[24:21]and she looks like she's in her 30s.
[24:24]Like I think it's also a bit of jeans.
[24:25]So I feel really lucky about that.
[24:27]Okay.
[24:28]All right.
[24:29]No, I don't feel so bad.
[24:30]Well, anyway, sorry that not to, you know,
[24:32]undermine your intellectual contributions,
[24:34]but I just had to ask a kind of a girly question.
[24:36]Anyway, I think that's super important.
[24:38]Come on.
[24:41]All right.
[24:41]Well, Eric, it was so nice to meet you.
[24:43]And I guess you're in New York.
[24:44]So maybe I'll see you in person sometime, right?
[24:46]You're here.
[24:47]I would love it.
[24:48]As soon as like, you know, I know,
[24:50]I'm a crowd of stocks terrorizing us.
[24:51]I love to be in person.
[24:53]I haven't seen, oh my gosh, yes, I can't wait.
[24:56]All right, well, it's super nice to meet you.
[24:58]Thank you for your time and your candid answers
[25:00]and everything.
[25:01]Hopefully I'll see you soon.
[25:02]Thank you, bye bye.
[25:04]Bye.
[25:04]Bye.
[25:05]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[25:08]to Read Books.
[25:09]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[25:11]at Zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:14]Also sign up for my newsletter at Zibi Owens.com
[25:17]and sign up for my virtual book club
[25:18]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[25:21]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texturesound
[25:24]for the Sound Editing.
[25:25]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[25:27]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.